#'assume everyone is acting in bad faith at all times. also assume the worst of someone if they like a thing that makes you uncomfortable.' | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

i-want-my-iwtv · 17 days

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(continued) I damn near exploded with anger, but also was able to concede how someone could come to that conclusion.

Hmm. I hope you're being hyperbolic, Anon, I mean, I'm glad you didn't explode with anger on your friend, and I'm glad you conceded how someone might come to the conclusion that there is/are problematic content/elements in a gothic horror story/series. 😬

I don't think this was a question, more of a confession/comment? I censored it for reasons below*. Whether it's IWTV canon, the '94 movie, the 2022 TV show, etc... I would say that if you enjoy it, allow that your friend has made a comment and you can talk with them about why they think it's bad, that could be an interesting conversation if it's in good faith!

I can say that in general, these stories/characters/ships are not intended to appeal to everyone, I consider canon to be a buffet where I can pick and choose what I like and skip over what I don't!

TL;DR: Don’t Like, Don’t Read. Applies to you, your friend, etc. Hopefully it won't cost you your friendship, but if it does, well, life goes on. I am not comfortable discussing certain topics publicly because fandom is a hostile environment at this time, and I come here for a fun little escape from reality in my limited free time, not to police anyone or be policed myself.

[^X by @bluebellofbakerstreet)

Hit the jump for more, cut for length.

~~~

*So, I wanted to take this as quick opportunity to share some thoughts on answering asks like these, because there is some fresh blood in the fandom who may not be aware... Assuming Anon wanted to ask if I agreed with their friend or not, the question wasn't quite clear. In general:

I've been in fandom long enough that I can say that the intention for questions like these is sometimes good, to spark intriguing conversations about how ~X problematic thing~ applies to various ships, whether it's harmful to the characters or maybe just part of their nature as vampires, so it's normal for them (as an example, "Was Armand cutting off Nicki's hands an abusive act, or is that a standard punishment that a coven master would commonly do to aberrant vampires? He didn't gloat about it, and he did return/reattach them after all!"), etc.... in other times, this could be a chance for an intellectually stimulating conversation and I would have enjoyed unpacking it with ppl.

Other times, especially currently in 2024 (to timestamp this), these questions are often in bad faith as a means to provoke an unwinnable debate; pinning a fan of a piece of media (the target/person) into defensive position of ~X problematic thing~ in fiction, which often becomes a slippery slope to accuse that target/person of "promoting/endorsing/supporting ~X problematic thing~ in real life!" This is then used to vilify the target/person when they insist that "Fiction is not reality," "Depiction is not endorsement," etc. etc.. As the person continues to defend themselves the bad faith actors escalate their harassment, this is fun sport for them. This can lead to dogpiling on the target/person with hateanons, online character/reputation assassination, or even real life consequences including doxxing. All this over a piece of fiction. It's extremely risky, it's entrapment, I have seen it happen and been a mild target for it over the years, it's unpleasant at best and ruinous at worst.

And I’ll also quote the description from @ozhawkauthor of one of The 3 Laws of Fandom, which applies to canon, fanfic, adaptations, all fiction!:

The First Law of Fandom Don’t Like; Don’t Read (DL;DR) It is up to you what you see online. It is not anyone else’s place to tell you what you should or should not consume in terms of content; it is not up to anyone else to police the internet so that you do not see things you do not like. At the same time, it is not up to YOU to police fandom to protect yourself or anyone else, real or hypothetical. There are tools out there to help protect you if you have triggers or squicks. Learn to use them, and to take care of your own mental health. If you are consuming fan-made content and you find that you are disliking it - STOP.

I used to wrap things up by saying smtg positive like "Let's all get along!" but that in itself was picked on for some reason, so I'll just end it here ✨

#anon #ask #problematic #problematic content #bad faith #good faith #fandom #advice #on fandom #bluebellofbakerstreet #ozhawkauthor #tsuki-lovey #gif #laws of fandom

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siryouarebeingmocked · 9 months

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How convenient that QA's definition of "internet bad people" solely consist of people who disagree with them and are demonized by QA’s own ingroup.

>They take some normal human behavior

>Explain it in the darkest, most bad faith way possible

>And then ignore any other, often more realistic, explanation.

See, this is ironic, because everyone assumes malice. It's perfectly normal.

You are doing it right now.

And it’s not the first time. Heck, you have personally justified terrorism against alleged crimethinkers.*

Just based on a label.

Assuming "bad faith" is saying the other person must be dishonest, instead of simply wrong.

And people are also very wrong all the time.

TERFs, for example, are the logical extension of radfems, who hate men. And radfems are the logical extension of mainstream feminism, which has spent decades acting like "society run by men" is synonymous with "oppression of women".

TERFs just include trans women as "men". They are not some unusual "other". They’re radical progressives and leftists.

>And assuming the absolute worst possible things about a specific group while denying their complexity and humanity…

The person who just lumped four very different groups together is complaining about people who deny the complexity of others.

This is very ironic.

*It’s also ironic that “dress up in black shirts and physically attack alleged political opponents” is literally a tactic Italian fascists used.

#irony #hypocrite #long #lolgic #queeranarchism

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ziskandra · 11 months

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*cackles* 7, 10, 11, 13, and 24

7. what character did you begin to hate not because of canon but because how how the fandom acts about them? hate is probably too strong a word but i've developed a knee-jerk reaction to fellow anders fans over the years because of the subset that truly seem to think he can do no wrong and that all of his actions were entirely justified and had no negative consequences for anybody in kirkwall other than the templars. on one hand, i kinda get it, because i know anders fans have also gotten a lot of flack because... this fandom is incapable of being normal. on the other, i have a knee-jerk reaction towards anyone who assumes everyone plays these sort of games the exact same way as them (or indeed, the same way each time). i totally respect people doing whatever they want in their games and in their fanworks, but it's when it comes out in harassment of others or making bad faith assumptions about the character of actual living human beings that i'm like. no thank you. obviously there are fans of other characters who also engage in this behaviour, anders is just the one where my negative fandom experiences outweigh the positive ones, personally.

oh also, while i'm being salty (the name of the game i SUPPOSE), i fucking love f!handers but m!handers leaves me cold (especially in canon-verse fic, i don't mind it as much in like, modern AUs and the like?) idk i feel like them being the same gender changes their dynamic in a way i can't articulate--probably that hawke being female shifts the power dynamics a bit and. yeah. 10. worst part of fanon

again, 'worst' is probably a harsh word, but when it comes to pervasive fanon that i personally just don't like, it has to be visibly mixed-race alistair. i don't mind it as much when his ears have like, a subtle point to them or whatever, but speaking personally as someone who is visibly mixed, to the point that i have fielded complete strangers asking "what are you" on regular occasions, alistair's narrative would be. quite different if he wasn't human-passing. and while i get that some mixed-race people find solace in making their blorbos more representative of who they are and their identities not causing any issues, it leaves me cold. and again, i don't care what other people do, but it's when some people act like fellow fans who dare depict alistair as he appears in canon are being racist or what have you that i get annoyed. like, yeah, dragon age fandom does have problems with race, but like... this is imo not one of them, and it detracts from like. bringing awareness to actual issues. yeah yeah people can care about multiple things at once, but by the same token, people can only care about so many things at once, yknow? also this fandom in particular has a real problem with treating poc like we're all a monolith, and that includes both white people and poc. i find it especially frustrating that the dominant discourse centers north american race politics the most, but god forbid anyone try to address that directly .... but that's a rant for another time lmao. 11. number of fandom-related words you've filtered i have about 16 fandoms i'm not in filtered mostly bc they just turn up on my dash a lot, and a handful of characters/ships filtered for fandoms i am in! the one that has been consistently filtered the longest is reyes vidal. 13. worst blorbofication

oooh, this one i think is a toss up between alistair and varric. as someone who loves both these characters more for their flaws rather than their virtues, fandom can be. a difficult time! alistair often gets reduced to this...perfect prince charming, which i think is kind of disappointing considering there is so many different ways for his story to develop depending on the the outcomes of origins? varric, otoh, gets reduced to hawke's bestie a lot. and look. i get it. he is hawke's bestie. he is. very uncritical of hawke, which is not as much of a problem if hawke's a good person but. what if they're not? what if they're not, varric. god, what i would give for like. a fucking complicated characterisation-rich fic which explored like. hawke and varric's friendship and how they're like. codependent messes. (and i say this as someone who loves codependent messes lol). and i guess like.... everyone treats varric being viscount as a meme. and yeah, i get it, the dude is everything everywhere all at once. but i'd really love to see more content focused on like... his relationship with kirkwall, and his feelings regarding his friends and becoming viscount and yeah. anyway!! being a blorbo of mine is the worst because i enjoy pain and suffering. anyway, 24. topic that brings up the most rancid discourse

mage rights and also the chantry boom. i don't think i even have to elaborate on this do it 😭 🔥 choose violence ask game 🔥

#thank you for the asks!!#this was more invigorating than i anticipated tbh #turns out i do have opinions even tho i don't voice them that often in the grand scheme of things oops #asha answers #poetikat #long post #fandom critical

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laf-outloud · 7 months

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https://www.tumblr.com/laf-outloud/732013686369189888/everytime-i-wish-for-jensen-to-do-better-hoping

So, I sort of agree with what people have been saying about Jensen sounding bitter when he makes jokes that seem like digs on Jared, especially when he isn’t present. Because of his actions with the prequel, it definitely makes any jabs feel like they come from a place of resentment, which they certainly might. There is a time or two where I think they really were. However, at comic con, he and Mark were joking about Jared, and it seems very clear that Mark holds Jared in high regard. We also haven’t seen a whole panel, so it’s hard to know the full context.

Jensen also makes jokes that that seem like digs at Misha. And I would say he does it more frequently than he does at Jared. He makes them when Misha is there and behind his back. Yet, I don’t see people calling him a bitter asshole when he does that. There was even a con where I felt like his teasing went a bit into the overkill territory, where Misha didn’t look like he was enjoying it, and I don’t normally really mind seeing Misha brought down a peg.

Anyway, my point with all this is, Jared is not the only person Jensen makes jokes at the expense of, so I’m not sure it’s always because of bitterness with Jared, so much as he’s just that type of guy. People certainly don’t have to like that about him, but for me it’s hard to judge if it’s truly coming from a place of anger at Jared or just going for whatever laugh he can get. Again, not saying that’s a good quality, just that it might not be intended maliciously.

People do a lot of projecting onto to broth Jared and Jensen, but at the end of the day, we can’t actually know either of their motivations in full. People say Jared doesn’t like Jensen anymore, and he’s the main reason Jared seems to be moving away from CE cons. Maybe, but maybe it’s just a good career move. People say Jensen is mad at jared for succeeding more than him, so his every joke is based on bitterness, and his every nice action is just a manipulation. Maybe, but they do have years of shared history and experience and good time too.

At this point Jared Stans are starting to use the kind of “bad faith” interpretation that AAs have been using for years. Everything the J we don’t like does gets interpreted in the worst possible way. Don’t get me wrong, Jared stans still aren’t anywhere near as bad as AAs because they don’t tag Jensen on their posts, wish for death on anyone, or attack on mass when someone shows appreciation for Jensen on Twitter or wherever. But, looking at someone from the worst possible light all the time leaves us open to misunderstandings and assumptions.

Sorry, if I’m coming off preachy or something. That’s not my intention, especially when I agree that Jensen has been acting a bit douchey, but I also don’t think he’s the devil with nothing but bad intentions.

Ugh, I don’t know if I got my thoughts across clearly on this post. I’m not trying to tell people what to think, just remind everyone not to .. assume the worst in every situation.

Anyway, feel free not to post of this comes off wrong.

Thank you for sharing, anon! I do get where you're coming from in wanting to share your opinion without sounding like you're trying to police other's opinions, and I appreciate that!

You are correct that we all interpret things based on our own opinions/biases, and at the end of the day, what's missing is the understanding of the motivation behind certain actions, words, etc. So, at best, we're opining on incomplete information.

I'm glad you're able to see things from a larger perspective, particularly in regards to the way Jensen jokes about other people, in addition to Jared. I'm with you in that I find that style of joking distasteful, particularly when the person isn't there to joke back. It feels like laughing at that person rather than with that person. It's almost reminiscent of the playground bully teasing other kids in front of a group in order to build themselves up while hiding their own insecurities. (Yeah... I probably projected there, lol.)

Anyway, I do appreciate you writing in and perhaps it might help others consider how and why they see things a certain way. Perhaps they'll stick with their opinions, or perhaps they'll adjust some of them, but either way, you've provided another perspective to consider, so thank you!

#ask box #jensen critical #anti aas #misha critical #just in case #perspectives and biases #fandom issues

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the1975attheirverybest · 3 days

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I'm the anon that asked you about the hypothetical 75 song about Palestine and all that.

First of all, thanks for answering me, I like to read your takes on this stuff, that is why I asked. I think it's generous of you to answer these asks, cause you have no obrigation of educating anyone here but still, you do, and I am grateful cause I learn a lot from you.

I only said my reasons to disagreing with you are not important because I know and respect yours, so I didn't think my reasoning would contribute to this debate. Also, I didn't want to sound confrontative, so It was the contrary of acting in bad faith.

Since you asked my vision on this matter, I think it's an oportunity to mention that I know it's diferent from yours because I'm not American. Even though you are palestinian-american, you live in the US and you guys tend to have a very self centered point of view on things.

Last year, I asked you something about this same issue, I think It was about the boycott on Starbucks and Gabriette, and you answered something like "must be good to be white", 'cause I didn't know about that.

I didn't answer at the time, it made sad, but I understood where you came from, It is your reality. But I must remember you that not everyone here is from US and people in other places have their specific issues to deal with.

Where I live, for example, more than 50 black people were murdered by the police for no reason last month, during the pandemic our negationist president promoved a genocide against indigenous people and right now we are dealing with major floodings, there are cities underwater and you don't see It on the internacional news. You don't hear about any of this and I don't call you anything derrogatory just because you don't know about this things, I get that, I think it's normal not knowing about every nuance in a conflict that I don't deal with directly.

This is not me trying to compete over the worst catastrofies, or who suffers more, It's just a comentary on the fact that SOMETIMES (and I underline the SOMETIMES) you presume the worst on what people ask you here.

I know that this may come in such a bad timing because of what is going on with another stupid anons but not everyone in here is out to get you! I like you, your takes and your writting and I wrote this with the best of intentions, ok?

Don't let the bad people get so much under your skin, that you miss or mistreat the good ones.

I hope you stay! ❤️

Ohhhh that was YOU? Okay bro I owe you an apology because at the time there was another non-white person tryna ruin my life behind the scenes and when you said you’re not white, I assumed that you were that person. Lmao. Like for all the hate that I do get on here, there’s even more stuff I don’t talk about that happens on my personal accounts etc. but yeah that was my bad sorry oops.

Also, I think you’re right, like, I spoke to someone young, (like 21 or 22) who’s in Europe and their coverage and news is different and gives them a different pov. I think I assumed since, in this instance, both conversations and libs are super Zionist and Islamophobic, that it would be the same across the board. So that’s why I said that at the time.

Ironically, that’s also kind of why I think people with power, or platforms, should say something. Like you’d think 7 months in, we would all agree on the bottom line facts but every time I have a conversation with someone on here it turns out that not even the timeline of events or the facts are established. Which indicates that folks are either not caring enough to look stuff up or are just getting a 1-sided narrative.

I don’t know how to feel about that. Cuz I get that I don’t have nearly as much power or influence. And I know that sometimes people come on here to exclusively get a rise out of me or fuck with me or whatever. But also on the other hand if the conversation helps to move the needle a little bit, then maybe it’s worth it? Idk man. Like I guess I’d thought it would be easy to measure a “general consensus” at this stage, but I think I’m wrong on that.

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spottedenchants · 29 days

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'I Didn't Ask For This' by Beth Crowley

Ooooo interesting interesting 👀

Going with my first reflex with these, bear with me xD

Strike first Make it hurt When everyone assumes the worst I never have to say I'm sorry

Beau

Exactly what she tried to do at times- if people assume the worst, you can literally only ever meet or exceed their expectations AND there's no need to apologize over things people already know you're going to do. Also ties into the whole 'you can't be the one rejected if you reject others first' thing that we saw exemplified when Beau considered her potential deal with Isharnai.

Spiteful Ruinous I'm all things you feared I was Another villain in your story

Molly -> Lucien

Really thinking about how losing Molly was a story-altering event and how Lucien's entire revival from the Nein's POV is desecration in every literal and metaphorical way. Also thinking about this meta in the frame of Molly the person vs Molly the icon and how Lucien was a twist on both as well as an 'obstacle' in the way of getting their friend Mollymauk Tealeaf back.

You think that I'm a spitfire? You should Afraid you're on my bad side? That's good If I wanted to end you I could I could

Jester

Her sweetness isn't a veneer in the same way her capability for severity isn't an act, but there's an earnest self-awareness she develops over the course of the campaign that this bit reminds me of. Yeah she's chaos made mortal, a damage-dealing cleric, and could wreak havoc upon you at the drop of a hat, but just don't be evil to her and it's fine!

I'm sinking down If you only knew how hard it is For me to climb out I'm kicking and screaming But no one can hear me So what happens now The shadows are creeping in I didn't ask for I didn't ask for this

Fjord

I think this can sum up everything from his upbringing to his pact with Uk'otoa to his struggle to be 'himself' with the party. Fjord was an isolated soul through most of his life, both by force of others and by choice as a result of that force, and really only found genuine peers in the Nein and only after a fair bit of vulnerability on everyone's parts. But hey, they reached their hands out and lent their ears when he was at his lowest and he took them up on their offer to be there for him :D

Cold rage Hides the shame Of images I can't escape Scars that live under the surface

Yasha

She can't remember the worst of her actions, and that makes it worse, doesn't it? Horror is made sharper when imagination is given free reign, so to of disgust and revulsion. So she gets mad, she rages and roars in her distinctly and somehow-quiet way, she taunts the world to take her out for the sins she's committed and it mocks her; but power only makes her undying. How cruel.

It's strange What I became When part of me was ripped away And replaced with something worthless

Veth

Even before becoming Nott, Veth's sense of self was torn to shreds before she had the chance to darn it, line it, wrap it around her shoulders like a shield. Left with threadbare tatters, she still stitched together contentment, a life- only for that to be taken too. So she resisted, fought back, reached out, tried to make something of herself that she could be proud of, and for what? A double-masked face despised by both herself and those she cared most for?

Caduceus

Yes I used this bit for Fjord and yes I will point at it again for the Wildmother's first boy. There's something to be said about being so avoidant towards the things that eat you that you can't even recognize when you are in desperate need of help. Caduceus had faith that good things would come, but faith is nothing without action. No, rather- faith without action is starvation for both mind and soul. His family left, as was their duty, as eventually would be his. The Savalierwood won't wait.

Take what's left Of my fractured heart Bloodstained 'cause The pieces are so sharp

Caleb

Driven to ruin by loyalty and love, what good is a heart if it murders its reason for being? Maybe he is the disgusting being he thinks himself, but guess what? That heart of his still beats and needs and a blade can be used to tend a beard just as well as it can be a shank. Maybe he can't wash the blood from his hands, but he can water a garden with the run off. In time, perhaps, with time.

Never forget I didn't ask for this

Essek

Knocked from his high horse and forcibly befriended. I'd like to think that deep down, even after all the dust has settled and Essek's come to terms with his new life, there's still a teeny tiny itty bitty kernel of resentment in him. The Nein are bold souls and he is grateful to know them and be known by them, but they did, quite literally, ruin his life faster than he ruined it himself.

#full disclosure: despite holding acotar and its related books in my hands several many times each week i have no idea what they're about #valakiir #chanswers #i realize after i wrote it that caleb's sounds like yasha but that just fuels my post-canon headcanons #team introvert my beloveds #they will grow nice things together #song song song hmhmhm...#how about a total 180 and Twinkling Lights by Annalise Emerick #end of campaign nein in my heart in contrast to early campaign nein #chanse writing

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caparrucia · 2 years

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Making my own post, because I'm derailing horribly and I know it. But I find this thread and @carriesthewind's addition key to a realization I just had about fandom drama.

Yes, there's this toxic dynamic where people demand the most good faith reading of their words, with generous opportunities for mistakes and misunderstandings, but go about reading everything they encounter in the worst possible faith, assuming malicious and harmful intent in everything.

And yes, that's one of the key drivers of fandom drama, because most people find people who go about doing that incredibly incendiary and annoying and often don't think twice to go back and call them out on it.

But the entire thread is talking about House of the Dragon as "the incest show" and how pointing out that "there's incest in the incest show, and if you're uncomfortable with incest, you'll be uncomfortable with both the canon and the fandom surrounding the incest show, because, y'know, all the incest," which... yeah. Valid points all around.

But I find it fascinated because it crystalized something for me and one of the reasons why most of fandom's tantrums about censorship vs harmful depiction annoy me so much. And I don't think mine is a unique experience, but... I don't have a stake, most of the time.

To wit, we all know Game of Thrones crashed and burned at the end and it's been such a meme there was a solid eight months worth of youtube video essays chronicling every single factor that went into turning the heir to the Sopranos as far as prestige TV went, into a fucking meme. But the thing is... Game of Thrones was something ELSE before it was the incest show. It was a whirlwind of high production and amazing acting and competent writing! ...right up until it wasn't. Yes, there was incest in it. There was also rape and violence and gore and maiming and a whole lot of shocking things, to a mainstream audience. It reveled shamelessly in its Adult rating and being gatekept behind HBO's paywall.

What I'm trying to say is, the people who watched Game of Thrones as it came out, myself included, and the people who left in disgust as the writing declined in quality and the plot became more and more obvious and stupid in direction and execution? We weren't there for JUST for the incest. To us, it wasn't the incest show. It was the dragon show. Or the politics show. Or the obscenely detailed costume work that makes me scream in paroxysms of ecstasy (yes, Bernadette Banner has a bunch of series breaking this down and salivating about it right along with us, go check them out over on youtube) show. Or it was the Charles Dance set the bar so fucking high every actor sharing a shooting site never mind scene with him has been forcefully dragged into a higher level of performance and it's fucking jaw dropping to witness show. Or the this is reigniting my love for D&D and fantasy because no one's ever taken it this seriously before and it's inspiring me to go look at those hobbies again show.

Sure, there were people who were absolutely in it for the incest. And you know what? All the power to them. Glad they were fed. But implying everyone has to be either gleefully consuming incest and celebrating/endorsing it, or being harmed by it, that's it, that's the dichotomy, the evil people who celebrate or the good people who're martyred (wow, some of you carry your evangelical damage VERY prominently and will find a way to work it into every conversation, yes), kind of erases the agency of the rest of us who looked at the incest and went "huh, not for me" and then moved on. Because that's a thing! That people with agency! Can do! Different people can have different tolerances for stuff. You don't get to erase us just because we're not convenient to the narrative.

Bad faith arguments about a show's morality - and let's start from the fact all arguments surrounding a show's moral standing are bad faith from the gate - will find the one thing they find objectionable - the incest - and try to eclipse everything else, pretending there was nothing else to the show, but incest. Because that's how they set the stage and cordon off the bits and pieces that sort of don't fit their argument. They're trying to get a head start in the conversation by delimiting the grounds. Not cool, but also understandable. All bad faith takes do that.

The weird thing is that in most other scenarios, when someone does the bad faith narrowing down of the field like that, the general answer is "this is more complicated than that and you're being stupid for being so narrow-minded, go away." When evangelicals try to do it about creationism and fossils. When evangelicals try to do it about science and religion and politics and a million other things, because this is a very (though not exclusively) evangelical way to frame problems and it's part of their preaching methods so they've internalized it.

But when it comes to media? And when it comes to Queer issues? Somehow people don't immediately go "your framing of this is objectively incorrect and also stupid, go away". People go in engaging in that same framing.

So now GoT and HotD are "the incest shows", and you can't have an opinion about them without identifying at the door if you're in for the incest or against it, as if incest is the central point of the discussion and the thing everyone is hyperfocused on. Like... no? IDK, I don't care about the incest, I'm more interested in X/Y/Z. But this framing makes it so that from the outside, if you don't know what's happening, you assume that, yeah, the incest must be the most important thing. Everyone talking about it, pro and against are basing all their thoughts and comments about the incest. So it must be true! So a bad faith framework, unchallenged, becomes the good faith standard that people use to gauge the conversation, because there's no challenging in that framework.

Bad frameworks are bad, and more than that, they're harmful. Because when you let them go unchallenged, you're letting bad faith actors dictate the tone of the conversation. This is annoying and irritating in fandom discussions, but it escalates to actively fucking harrowing when it comes to the other thing that keeps following this pattern: conversations about queer people, particularly trans people, and the concentrated efforts from right wing extremists to reframe their entire existence as predators, and specifically child sexual predators.

So, like, absolutely call out people who do that good faith for me, bad faith for thee bullshit. Absolutely recognize when someone is trying to bias a conversation or forcefully frame it in a way that tries to box you into a gotcha. But when you see the bad framing, for fiction and for queer issues, and you wouldn't tolerate that in a science conversation. Or in a history conversation. Or in a linguistic conversation... yeah, call THAT out. And remember the only people who benefits from you engaging unquestioning in that bad framing, is the asshole who set up that bad frame in the first place.

Additional twitter threads about bad framing/bad faith arguments:

"Why fiction was used to groom me is a shitty argument and you need to stop engaging with it."

"Doxxing/Suicide baiting is bad, actually, stop letting people reframe them as valid activism."

"TERF/Kink-critical/RadFem rhetoric speaks the language of abuse and you'll never be able to argue your way into being seen as a person if you engage in their framework."

"Discomfort is not harm and you can't have conversations about harm-reduction when someone keeps bath faith derailing to try and force you to take accountability for THEIR discomfort."

#shut up rie #media analysis #media criticism #bad faith readings make my blood boil #bad faith actors come up with bad faith framings who could've thought!#one day i will stop being salty and watch hotd #one day

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fincalinde · 2 years

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so i saw that ask about jgy and how he killed jin guangshan, and it reminded me of how i’m still not really sure what to make of that whole situation, even when i AM a jgy fan

it feels kind of like that scene in matilda where the kid stole a piece of cake, and the head lady, as punishment, had a gigantic cake made and forced him to eat it all—in mdzs, it’s kind of a fanservicey schadenfreude at jin guangshan getting his just desserts (heh, pun intended). except in the context of jgy and jin guangshan, the “cake” is actually like twenty otherwise uninvolved people who are forced to rape someone and then are killed.

at least with wen chao and wang lingjiao, wwx wanted revenge against both of them, but jgy didn’t know who the prostitutes were specifically, so that isn’t the case here

it just seems so incongruent with everything else we know about jgy. even if he was determined to have jgs raped to death, there are ways to achieve that without dragging in (and subsequently killing) uninvolved outsiders, or at the very least, so many outsiders. so why did he do it the way he did?

(please forgive the poor timing after that other ask: i’ve been dying to know what other jgy fans think about it since i finished the book, but i only recently felt confident enough to really start engaging with the fandom. I consider you a Trusted Jgy Source, so i was just curious what thoughts you had on the matter, if any. i hope you don’t mind me asking, and please don’t feel obligated to answer.)

I don't mind your asking at all! I'm always happy to answer good faith questions.

The way JGY has his father killed is certainly an exception to his normal mode of operation. Where I generally take issue however is fandom conflating that exception with the assertion that it is The Worst Thing Anyone In MDZS Ever Did. In a story where the nominal hero is desecrating thousands of corpses and forcing his enemies to autocannibalise, it's really not feasible to apply a modern real-world moral framework to the characters.

Take WWX for example, since he really is the most obvious comparison in terms of fandom reception. WWX does regret the extremity of his actions later on, but he seems to mostly feel embarrassed and awkward about it. Resolving not to commit similar acts in future (now he's in a situation where he doesn't need to!) is sufficient for him to move on. His most terrible acts are also generally disregarded or viewed in the broader context of his situation, his goals, and his other commendable qualities such as his attempts to save the Wen and his love for JC and JYL. Everyone is going to respond differently to different characters according to their own preferences and that's absolutely fine, but proclaiming that nothing WWX did is as bad as what JGY did to the sex workers is utterly baseless.

Yes WWX wanted revenge against WLJ, but does that mean what he did to WC and WLJ was proportionate or moral? Not if we're applying real world morality, and based on LWJ's reaction and WWX's later feelings of guilt, perhaps not within the confines of the setting either. I would be interested in seeing anyone argue that WLJ or even WC genuinely deserved their fates and how this reflects on WWX's supposed virtue—not because I'm personally interested in applying a modern moral framework to the text, but because I do think it exposes fatal inconsistencies in that approach.

If we assume that WWX was in some way justified in killing WC and WLJ in such a cruelly protracted manner, the rationale is probably that in light of everything they did to him and his clan it is if not perhaps entirely ethical then at least understandable. In that case I don't see much difference between what WWX did to WC and WLJ and what JGY did to JGS. JGY has struggled his entire life, and when he finally wins the entire war and attains legitimacy he is mistreated and misused and forced to commit repeated atrocities while his own ideas for the betterment of society are rejected again and again. His mother died because his father couldn't be bothered to save her. He ends up married to his own sister. It's really small wonder he finally snaps and lashes out.

It's also small wonder he chooses death by irony for JGS. This is JGY's lowest point: he's achieved everything he set out to do and yet his life is nothing but exhaustion and misery and physical and mental abuse. In terms of bringing in unrelated outside parties, JGY has absolutely no reason to feel any sense of solidarity with sex workers as a class, considering that with the exception of Sisi every single one of them ostracised him and his mother and subjected them to abuse and ridicule when he was growing up. It certainly is out of character for him to be flamboyantly vicious rather than simply efficient, but if there were ever a time to go big then this is it.

JGY makes it very clear he feels no allegiance to the social class he was raised in, and we're shown exactly why: that class rejected him and treated him just as badly as any other. To JGY there is no meaningful difference between the abuse he receives from cultivators and the abuse he receives from prostitutes. Why should he feel any sense of solidarity with a class of people who have never offered him the same courtesy?

I understand that people who engage in sex work are often in vulnerable positions and are subject to harassment and violence and other dangers. I understand that in the real world it's important to protect vulnerable groups.

However. It does also seem to me that an eagerness to signal support for sex workers can result in a reading of MDZS where the lives of sex workers are counted as being worth more than the lives of other characters. Why are the deaths of the prostitutes JGY uses to rape his father to death so much worse than the deaths of the inhabitants of the brothel he has XY burn to the ground with everyone inside? What about Baixue or the Yueyang Chang, or the cultivators NMJ hacked to death in the throes of a qi deviation he knew could happen at any time?

The characters do react strongly to the way JGS dies, so we know that it's considered a particularly shocking and awful thing to do. However the characters are more focused on what a horrible method of death it is for JGS rather than the suffering of the women who raped him to death and were executed for it. Therefore if you do consider it a manifestly 'worse' crime than the murder of children or enforced cannibalism, you should be just as appalled by the reactions of LXC, WWX, LWJ etc. and should therefore be rethinking your assessment of their moral standing rather than handwringing over the poor fictional sex workers and how this makes JGY the absolute worst ever of anyone in the cast.

To sum up:

1. Applying a modern moral framework to MDZS is impossible in light of the atrocities committed or tacitly endorsed by the entire cast. Violence and sexual violence is endemic to the setting and condemning JGY is only consistent if WWX and other characters are condemned for similarly appalling acts. I won't propose my own framework as that will vary from reader to reader, but if one intends to write fanfiction or meta then the most important thing to do is apply one's chosen framework consistently.

2. The way JGY kills his father is inconsistent with his typical behaviour but is consistent with what we know about him when taking into account the years of abuse he has endured and the fact that he has no reason to feel solidarity with or sympathy for sex workers as a class.

#ask #labyrynth #roquen meta

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my-strange-attraction · 8 months

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Man people really do be straw-manning you and then interpreting all of your arguments in the worst faith possible and acting like that makes them So Smart And Correct. I’m sorry you gotta deal with all these bozos with zero reading comprehension or critical thinking skills. Just wanna add because it’s been seriously bothering me and I don’t remember you ever bringing it up: one of the core tenets of the original op’s post that you responded to was basically ‘this identity is bad because I’m a lesbian and those people aren’t lesbians in the exact same way as me so they’re hurting the lesbian community because I don’t want to see them when they don’t share all of my experiences and (gasp!) talk about men and their relationship to men sometimes because *I* don’t want to hear about men’ and I just. Idk man if that’s what his argument boils down to its kind of a shitty argument. Even ignoring all of the terf rhetoric (which you correctly pointed out) I can’t even begin to understand why someone would want to be in a queer community where everyone fits into neat little boxes and everyone with your label experiences their orientation exactly like you. Aren’t they forgetting that the whole point of the queer community is that larger society attempted to put us in boxes we didn’t want to be in and categorize us into labels and lifestyles we didn’t want? Why would someone ever parrot the actions of our oppressors and do that to other queer people, when they know what it feels like? I can’t even fathom being that selfish and closed minded

>your argument is chock full of straight up lies Love how this was said in response to your rebuttal of an argument that CONTAINED ITS OWN “STRAIGHT UP LIES”!! Like pot meet kettle lol. Specifically referring to that one bit that was like “uwu bi women tried really hard on purpose to distance themselves from the lesbian community” because that is straight up not what happened!! I haven’t said anything yet but it’s been bothering me for a while and that one ask has so much fucking Audacity that I couldn’t stop myself from Pointing It Out this time. Ahistorical bullshit and they’re accusing YOU of lying. The audacity of it all I can’t

Anyway these guys are just mad that bi lesbians get more bitches than they EVER will. I heart bi lesbians I love you bi lesbians I hope y’all stay winning mwah <3

I'm assuming these are all from the same person because of the timing? If not, sorry for not doing separate responses.

Yeah, this whole thing has been pretty frustrating to be honest. In a way it's even worse than actual terfs, because these are people who are philosophically not that different than I am, and if we met in real life we probably wouldn't even know that we disagree. I mean, I do talk sometimes about label anarchy with some of my friends, but we have to be close and you have to get me in a philosophical mood. It's really frustrating to be openly disrespected as a person for one opinion that, though it does happen to be really important to me, doesn't come up in my everyday life (or, likely, theirs either).

The whole pronoun thing really got to me too. I KNOW they were just strawmanning, and I KNOW it wasn't really a valid critique of anything I said, but the suggestion that I would even consider purposely using the wrong pronouns for someone is upsetting. I don't think he even noticed before an anon pointed it out as a way to invalidate my argument. I don't think it upset him (or the anon) as much as the anon said it did. I still apologized though because I'm not going to not apologize for using the wrong pronouns.

Also I know jack shit about history because it doesn't stay in my break but yeah actually I do remember reading about that! That's crazy, I can't believe they called me a liar when they don't know their history. I mean, I don't either, but at least I'm honest about it.

Thanks so much for sending these messages! Not gonna lie, I was going a bit crazy with all this and the only anons I was getting until now have been the hate ones that I've shared and a few hate ones that I just outright deleted. I know people agree with me because I've seen the likes on my posts, but it's nice to have someone defending me as well, so thank you <3

#ask #labels #queer #identity #cloudy rambles

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bloodgulchblog · 10 months

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7, 9, and 22 on choosing violence?

7. what character did you begin to hate not because of canon but because how how the fandom acts about them?

Noble 6.

It's pretty unfair of me. Of course everyone loves their ocs. Everyone should get to love their ocs! Everyone should love their ocs and thrive.

I just got Tired of it all real fast.

9. worst part of canon

Halo 5 is a meme answer at this point.

TV Show's not canon so I won't count it, they were at least prescient enough to make it a separate continuity.

I could also say Kilo Five, but I have such complicated feelings about it. Kilo Five pisses me off a lot, but it's also pretty interesting.

I don't like Denning's books (and a couple things he does really frustrate me) but I feel like saying they're the worst just because I don't like them would be petty.

I think the weakest part of the written Halo canon just in terms of overall craftsmanship is the Uprising comic because it just sucks, but it's honestly a boring kind of suck. Nothing that happens in it really matters. (I mean, Ackerson dies, but that's the only good thing I have to say about it.) The art is bad, really really really bad. The writing is bad. But none of the characters matter, so it's like. Fine.

....One of my followers will probably be able to point out something I got really unhinged about hating before that I forgot here, lol.

22. your favorite part of canon that everyone else ignores

I am taking this as carte blanche to do propaganda for the YA Halo novels again.

I think the first one is better than the second one, but the second one has Middle Book of a Trilogy problems and then the third one never got to happen bc it got cancelled (due to low sales, I would assume.)

Anyway.

Halo: Battle Born is about a group of teenagers on the planet Meridian. When the Covenant attacks Meridian, it puts up a big forcefield bubble over their town because there's a Forerunner Thing in there that the Covenant wants to dig up, so the Covenant is protecting their new digsite.

Most of the town's people managed to hide in an underground bunker and are locked in there by the town's dumb AI. The only people who aren't are these teenagers... and the bunker is starting to flood.

They do have one thing going for them, though: also trapped in the forcefield bubble? A wounded Spartan-III who got separated from the rest of his team.

Between the group of them, they need to figure out how to rescue and evacuate the townspeople without the Covenant killing them (and maybe fuck up the Covenant's plans while they're here.)

If you have absolutely zero tolerance for stories about high school kids, I completely understand. But I went into this in good faith and it was a lot of fun. As a Halo nerd, it was really enjoyable to see a writer doing work to flesh out what civilian life (especially for young characters) is like in this universe because we mostly don't get a lot of opportunities to see it. It's fun to read about Victor wanting to make videos and movies and trying to have a channel. It's fun that Dorian is in a band and plays some kind of mostly-computer instrument we don't really know how it works.

It's fun that Saskia's parents work for a shady weapons company and maybe knew the attack was coming and abandoned their daughter. :)

(Actually it's wildly fucked up, but that is the kind of fun we have here.)

I also really enjoy the way they bond with the Spartan, Owen, and how he finds some commonality with one of them in particular.

You can make some criticisms about how some of the tech is a little goofy (mostly re: a genetic lock that shows up, based on my memory) and maaaaybe Owen is a liiiiiittle too willing to tell the teenagers some truths that he shares, but also it's not like Halo has ever been particularly good about having its characters do opsec anyway. (Plus Owen is... also a teenager! And he's in a really bad situation and separated from his chain of command.)

I think it's worth your time if it sounds fun.

(The second one isn't as good, but it DOES have the protagonists getting pulled into working for the UNSC and that's very fucked up!!!)

#asks #ask game

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llycaons · 1 year

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ig my 'unpopular opinion' (hate that term) is that lwj Should feel bad about how he treated wwx, and I'm glad he does, because that pushes him to grow as a character and make difference choices in the future. he should feel bad that he sided with the passive and corrupt clans instead of trusting wwx and being more proactive in protecting all those people. on the flipside jc's grief and misery surrounding wwx never seems to include regrets about what HE could have done differently, so he doesn't undergo any of that positive character growth, he just blames everyone around him and lashes out and sinks deeper into bitterness and contempt and fury. if he had thought about the consequences of his choices a little more, maybe he could have taken some responsibility for how it all went down too and like. acted differently when wwx returned.

but despite him going on about how family/clan is more important than anything, he doesn't even try to trust wwx, he just assumes the worst of him. and ik he's being manipulated and he's got trauma related to being abandoned, and wwx wasn't the most communicative about what was happening, but clearly he was trying to protect a group of innocent people and a child, so why couldn't jc extend to wwx an iota of good faith and like. back him up since this was clearly so important to him and also there are literal farmers and a toddler being threatened with murder? jc isn't to blame for wen chao or jgy or su she's actions, but he did have a certain amount of power in his role and he seemed determined not to use it. he publicly cut ties with wwx, allowing public sentiment to build against him, and he folded easily to demands that he kill wen ning despite having an actual argument against that. obviously being attached to the burial mounds community is politically disastrous, but lwj was speaking for wwx at the time too so it's not like jc was entirely alone. if he was a great political mind like I've seen people claim he was, he also could have curried favor with jzx through jyl's connection...idk it was important to wwx and I wish jc had been able to stand up for him or at least was capable of critically analyzing his own actions after the fact

#I mean ultimately jgs probably would have tried to fight back because he wanted wwx's power so ig jc was retroactively vindicated #bc even with the lans and jiangs fighting together (dubious) they probably would have lost #but jc still didn't handle it as well as he could have and more importantly he didn't take ANY lessons from it besides #'wwx evil and the cause for all my suffering and mom was right about him'#which considering they grew up together and were so close is such a disappointment #I think claiming jc is a terrible politician based on that mess is unfair bc that was an awful situation to be in #but I can't recall any time he actually did anything with his status besides bend to the demands of larger sect leaders #or rely on wwx or jyl to smooth over situations with other political figures. so he's hardly got anything going for him #(see: the marriage proposal and the time LP got guests)#postcanon he just seems...angry and violent #which doesn't necessarily mean he's a good or strong leader idk why people seem to think it does. we've seen him be harsh to his own people #he does give a good hearing to sisi and bicao but that just entails sitting there and listening to their story #which is like. idk. bare minimum?#look jc wasn't made to be a sect leader and that's fine. its a bs position #but he also didn't undergo any personal growth because he can't face the fact that he might have been wrong and I think that sucks #and since he didn't undergo any personal growth he's this toxic and violent and cruel emotional blackmailer postcanon #which rly fucking sucks for everyone around him including jl!#also where does he get off being mad at lwj and mocking him about wwx's death. lwj didn't do ANYTHING to him jc's just mad that #he survived that one time and he transferred blame about the LP attack onto him and. also lwj tried to save wwx #ofc lwj doesn't like him because of the attempted/actual murder thing #also I don't think lwj respects him at ALL which I get. I don't respect him either #shame bc like you two had a common goal! you could have worked together for it instead of holding each other in contempt!#cql txp

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solena2 · 2 years

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Just saw someone claim that saying “not all men” and saying “hating men is bad because all gender essentialism is bad” are inherently the same idea and didn’t want to derail the post, but I think there’s a genuine discussion to be had here, so

Hot take, apparently, but the problem with “not all men” rhetoric has nothing to do with the factual accuracy of the statement. Like, we can all agree that not every single man, (or the majority of men) assaults women, right?

The problem with people saying “not all men” isn’t that the statement they’re making is wrong, it’s that they’re engaging in bad faith and obfuscating the actual debate. Because no, not all men, but also “every man has assaulted a woman” was never the point the opposing movement was trying to make. Dudebros just acted like it was because there’s no way to oppose the statement “assaulting women is bad, actually” without sounding like a tone deaf asshole, so they built a strawman to mock instead.

But the post that prompted me to write this wasn’t written by a dudebro. It was written by a terf.

And the problem with terf ideology, also known as the core of terf ideology, is that they really do believe that all men are bad, inherently, by virtue of being men. They view gender as a moral alignment, with men on the “bad” side and women on the “good”, and any deviation from that binary as misguided at best and malicious infiltration at worst.

Which is why they hate trans women, view trans men as confused, and either treat nonbinary people as “women-lite” or, more often, refuse to acknowledge them entirely.

So why is that a bad thing?

Because being real here, that’s a question that needs answered. The seeds of terf ideology grew in fertile soil, and knowing what led to that is important. Knowing the conditions under which radical feminism thrives is what gives us the insight to root it out early.

The same time that “not all men” rhetoric was popular with the right, significant parts of the left were beginning to respond with “yes, all men”. Partially out of frustration at first, I think, at least for those unfamiliar to such statements. (As many of us were, at the time.) People embracing the “man hating lesbian” stereotype and similar things used to discredit them. Going “you know what, maybe I do hate men, maybe I should hate men, maybe everyone should.” because they were hurting and tired of being hurt and when sexism is such a prevalent issue it is genuinely difficult to oppose the statement.

It’s very easy to take a hatred of misogyny and translate it to a hatred of men, because misogyny is synonymous with men, right? Built by men and perpetrated by men and kept alive by men.

So shouldn’t men be sorry for it? Shouldn’t they attempt to atone, whether or not they, personally, have bought into it? It’s certainly true that all men benefit from misogyny, so shouldn’t all men be treated with suspicion?

It’s easy to see why terfs believe what they do, in the end. Their beliefs are based in personal pain and anger and trauma so often.

The problem, as it often is, is that it’s not that simple. “All men benefit from misogyny” is not a true statement, and “all men benefit from misogyny and need to atone for it” is worse.

Any man who’s been called a fag, for example, is not reaping the benefits of misogyny. Any man who doesn’t fit in the cookie cutter mold and is punished for it, whether that’s a drag queen or a gay man or a cis straight man who just likes the fucking color pink, men are just as socially shackled by misogyny as women are, top of the gender bullshit food chain or not.

Misandry is just as bad as misogyny ideologically. The reason it’s rarely as much of a problem has nothing to do with the inherent qualities of womanhood. Systemic misandry isn’t often a problem because we haven’t historically had much of it.

Feminism is not and never has been an attempt to invert the status quo, place women on top, and call it a day assuming the exact same bullshit won’t arise. Feminism is a fight for equality, a fight where we try to liberate everyone, lift everyone up instead of pulling each other down.

We are not crabs in a bucket.

“Trans-exclusionary radical feminism” is what happens when someone decides pulling other people down is easier than lifting them up.

It’s an ideology built on assuming you’re the only victim that matters.

You’re not. Oppression isn’t a competition.

Stop trying to pull us back into the bucket. It does nothing constructive for anyone.

#original post #sol speaks #misogony #transphobia #gender essentialism

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beeseverywhen · 1 year

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I guess I'm realising that a big part of living well is accepting that people are different (and that's good! That's the best part of knowing people!) If I always expect everyone to show love just as I would, I'll be disappointed. If I make assumptions and jump to conclusions about ppls actions based on a bad faith take that's dependent on them having the exact same faults as me? That's just gonna cause me unnecessary angst. Like yeah, I have a tendency to be judgemental and hold grudges, but that doesn't mean that everyone does lol

Everyone has their own flaws and holding everyone up to the same standard I hold myself, where I expect them to be a good friend in the exact same way I expect of myself, and where I look for my flaws in other people? And assume that they are being dicks cause I've known myself to be a dick in the same way (and try very hard not to be) that's just a recipe for a bad life! That's a good way to lose relationships that could be really good for me, based on a misunderstanding of how that person feels towards me.

Like everyone shows love in different ways. My friends are not gonna act about someone they care about in the same way as I would and they aren't going to think/act about people in the same negative way that I might. Humans are flawed. We don't always act like the best versions of ourselves, that's to be expected. There are people in the world that are capable of hurting you even without meaning to.

But people are also really really diverse. The worst version of me is not going to be the same as the worst version of someone else. There are people out there that just aren't your people, and who just aren't capable or willing to be good for you; its totally reasonable to be ready to walk away from them when you find them. But projecting your own flaws on to other ppl is not how you find those people. If a person is someone that'll end up inadvertently hurting you? They aren't going to do it in the same way that you might to someone else. Part of being self aware is accepting that there are ways that you are capable of being less than your best self, and accepting that you could hurt people without trying thanks to those. But it's important to also accept that the worst version of you is not the same as the worst version of anyone else. You can't live your life looking for the worst version of you in everyone else, they aren't there. They are in you. The worst version of that person is someone else entirely.

Like, part of living well is accepting that you can't avoid all hurt. People are going to hurt you and sometimes that'll be in a way that's forgivable, and they'll work to prevent it happening again, and sometimes, it won't be something you can forgive, sometimes they won't be willing or capable of trying to not hurt you again and the best thing for you is to walk away. But there is no way for you to detect these people before the hurt happens every time. Being hurt and hurting others (even when you don't mean to) is part of being human.

Sure, there are sometimes red flags. There are behaviours that I won't stand for, and will always walk away from, without giving that person the benefit of the doubt. Some things aren't worth it. But it's not possible to always see the red flag before you get hurt and realise that person is bad for you. Often, you realise after. And if you live your life, hunting for red flags? You'll find them where there aren't any and you'll live your life seeing negative feelings towards you that just aren't there.

You will get hurt sometimes and it's impossible to live your life avoiding that. The worst versions of some of your closest friends and family? Are bad in ways you've never even considered. Maybe you've never come across those flaws in anyone else, and with luck, you won't have to. We all want to give our best selves to the people we love, sometimes we manage it and sometimes we don't. But you can't project the worst parts of yourself and of other people that have hurt you before, on to everyone you meet and assume you know what their worst self looks like. That won't help you avoid hurt, it'll just limit the good you find out there.

#the world isn't split in to good and bad people #there are good and bad parts to all of us. part of being a good person is being aware of your flaws & trying to limit their impact #but you can't do that if you expect to be perfect. you can't be perfect. we are all just trying and that's all you can do.#try to be the best version of you #being hurt is part of being human. you will be hurt and you will hurt others. try to do better next time and #try to not expose yourself to repeated hurt by people that are bad for you.#you can limit the power a person has over you but you can't avoid ever being exposed to hurt and if you try to do so. by always looking out #for ways you might be hurt by anyone you meet? by not letting any person hold power over you in case they turn out to be bad for you?#you'll live a half life #it's not worth it. there is no way to avoid all hurt. you can't always see it coming.#the only way to avoid another person ever hurting you is to avoid all people. to isolate yourself. and in doing that? YOU are hurting YOU #hurt is an unavoidable part of life. but living? loving? makes it worth it.try to be your best self & have faith that others are trying too

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dreaminginvelaris · 3 years

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A Response to a Feyre Anti

I made a post recently explaining the dread of having to watch Feyre be abused by her sisters and father, in the Tv adaption. And a Feyre anti made a response, to something that should not be criticized at all considering what I said was just the truth? Feyre was abused. Not only that but they went on and completely twisted the narrative to fit their own ideas and in the process made Feyre out to be cruel and Nesta a saint. complete bull.

I will not be tagging the anti bc they have me blocked (shocker), but also I do not want anyone to go after them, if you come across the post, I don't want it to be through me. it's as much respect I can give to them.

I usually do not respond to those who have something to say with a post of mine or are blatantly talking about me on their blog, unless they're just spreading absolute lies about me or what i "said", it's usually a waste of time to do so. but this post attacked Feyre with outrageous lies and a complete backward interpretation of what actually happened in acotar, so as respectful as I can be, I will be analyzing the anti-response and what truly happened in acotar.

"the audience will only see two sisters fighting-not abuse" "it’s not Nesta you need to worry about. It’s audiences calling Feyre a big dumbass and a bitch" -from anti

if the audience has basic human compassion and empathy for humans IRL or fictional, they will see what's obvious from the start. Feyres abuse. how is it going to look, when they see Feyre walking through the woods, shaking from the cold, starving from hunger, and struggling to find food for her family? only to later see Nesta's treatment of Feyre?"

in the anti's post, they said Feyre was just as "heinous" to Nesta.

is Feyre the one calling Nesta a pig? a smelly pig? ordering her to take her clothes off?

no, it's not, it's dear Nesta. the text goes as "I took my time, swallowing the words I wanted to bark at her" oh yes... how cruel of Feyre. how heinous of Feyre to...stay quiet... at the verbal abuse.

in the same image we see Feyre ask Nesta to do something (kindly might I add) and then inquire why she didn't chop wood like she needs to.

what does Nesta do? acts like a brat and insults Feyre...once again.

considering I'm going off by the story and not the actual screenplay, and assuming they stay true to the story; will the audience not be disgusted by Nesta's behavior? I mean they just saw Feyre struggle to find food and they expect Feyre to go home to a family happy and appreciative of Feyre but instead, they get this familial abuse.

the anti said Feyre basically tells Nesta this:

"If you keep bitching at everyone like this no one will want to be around you or you can’t marry this guy because you’re a waste of space to me"

but what do we see?

"Believe me... the day you want to marry someone worthy, I'll march up to his house and hand you over. But you're not going to marry Tomas."

the word worthy, did that not catch your eye? Feyre said Nesta will have to marry someone worthy, someone, who will treat Nesta kindly and give her the life Feyre thinks her sisters deserve. bc Feyre does think that IDK why anti feyres think Feyre despised Nesta so much, Feyre loved her sisters.

what the anti fails to realize here is that Nesta marrying Tomas would have been actually pretty great for Feyre. in the sense that, Feyre would no longer carry the burden of her sister. Feyre would not have to worry about feeding one more mouth. or worrying about Nesta's constant stealing of Feyre's money. Feyre does not think Nesta is a "waste of space" to her, if she did, it would have been easy for Feyre to discard Nesta, and allow her to marry Tomas. the anti has that twisted.

but that is not even the worst part of the scene. did you see the shameless slut-shaming that came out of Nesta's mouth? how will the audience take to that? do you think most of the younger generation will take it lightly to see a sister slut-shame a sister? a woman putting down another woman? in this social climate? where the feminism movement is alive and flourishing. will they be okay with it? will they still blame Feyre and be mad at her the way the anti says they will be? I hope not otherwise I'm losing faith in humanity.

Lovely words Nesta spews at Feyre. I admit Feyre should have told her then and there that Tomas is abusive. but let's think: Feyre is 19 years old, the youngest, has never had any raising by a parental figure, has been neglected by her whole family, where would Feyre learn to calmly talk to an overgrown brat like Nesta? Feyre telling Nesta who Tomas truly is the duty of a parent, not a sister. I will not condemn Feyre for not knowing that was the perfect time to tell Nesta who Tomas is. especially when Feyre is being tormented and verbally/emotionally abused, its kinda hard to think about something else while you're being told all these horrible words. to us its easy to see where Feyre went wrong but unless you're in the exact position Feyre was in. no one has any room to talk. and even then, every person is different in situations like these.

this part was me analyzing the interactions between Feyre and Nesta since anti had reasons to believe Feyre was just as bad to Nesta and that the audience would see that and hate Feyre. I am now going to respond to the second part of the Feyre Anti's response.

"How will an audience of non-fans react to her not reaching out to her family to tell them she was okay after the reconciliation between her and Nesta? Or not inviting them to the wedding?"- from anti

moving onto acomaf now.

Idk maybe the audience will see Feyre, a depressed, lonely, individual in an abusive relationship while being manipulated by other individuals she called friends, and understand and empathize with her. all throughout the beginning and half of acomaf, Feyre is in critical depression. she wholeheartedly believes she should not be alive. that she is not worthy. she doesn't eat, all she does is sleep, self-care is not important to her or others so why would letting a family know she's okay, a family who BARELY ever cared about her, be a priority? it doesn't seem like Nesta or elain or her father was really fazed by Feyre's lack of communication. her father left on a trip, elain got engaged and Nesta, well we didn't see a tearful welcoming to Feyre on Nesta's part did we?

anti, where is the outcry of her "family" not even really caring if Feyre was safe or not, of what happened to her? it's not like they thought she had died, otherwise, where was the mourning or funeral? no, they just didn't care.

see this is where I know when anti is just full of bullshit. why, WHY, would Feyre invite her family to wedding full of fae? the creatures elain and Nesta fear and hate? for all the talk many anti's spew about Feyre being inconsiderate to Nesta, to her family, you would think Feyre maybe just knows a fae wedding would be the last thing they would want? even then, does Feyre owe them an invitation to her wedding? does she owe them an update on her life? nope. Feyre owed them nothing.

"How about her shit-talking Nesta to a bunch of strangers then having the audacity to ask her to get involved in a war. Oh! This is after she comes into her house and insults their hospitality." - from anti

I hardly think Feyre confiding in individuals who she learned to care about and laying out all the trauma Feyre endured with her family is "shit-talking" but for argument's sake, let's say it is. I still don't see what's wrong? after years of pent-up anger and hurt, would you not let go of everything you withheld inside and explain what was done to you? how you felt? Feyre telling the IC her life story, which contains Nesta's abuse and her family's neglect, was a form of therapy for Feyre. I never read a line where Feyre calls Nesta a "cold-hearted bitch" or called elain "a lazy ditz" she just said the truth. no added embellishments. Cassian was the one who shit-talked Nesta during the dinner scene, never Feyre.

I still don't understand why antis are so against Feyre asking her sisters for help? like the war didn't involve them? they're humans, and you know what the war was about? Hybern wanting to take control of the human lands like they once did and turn them into slaves. those humans included Nesta and elain.

"They could have left the continent" correct, except elain was engaged and refused to leave Grayson. which meant Nesta refused to leave elain. but even so, isn't it the duty of humans to band together and work to overthrow a race of people who want to torture and keep them as slaves? the queens certainly weren't doing their jobs. Feyre asked to use "their" house to meet the queens bc where else would they do it? the queens trust the fae less than Nesta or elain did. but even so, Feyre asking to use their house was a courtesy, that house is rightfully Feyre's. she is the one who sacrificed herself to leave with Tamlin. she did it bravely, courageously, and they got that house thanks to her. they owed Feyre everything. and the only one who acknowledged that was Elain.

that war involved elain and Nesta whether they or Feyre or the anti's liked it or not. not even considering that Nesta and elain are Feyre Archerons sisters, yeah, their family name alone puts a target on their back.

How did Feyre or the court insult Elain's and Nesta's hospitality? You mean when Feyre realized human food differed from fae food? something she did not know about bc she's barely been turned to fae and only had eaten fae dishes? Feyre's grimace towards the human food was an involuntary reaction to someone who is still learning their new body. or was it when Cassian called out Nesta for her cold treatment towards Feyre? if that's the case then fuck decency, I would call out a fake bitch in my presence from minute one. you cant call what Nesta did "hospitality" when all she did was insult Feyre when she didn't even care that Feyre had died, or lost her love bc of abuse, or that her body was changed against her will.

hospitality: the friendly and generous reception and entertainment of guests, visitors, or strangers.

did y'all read something different bc this for sure was nothing Nesta gave to her guests?

----

the rest of the anti post moves towards Rhysand and his actions UTM which I won't go into because I'm mainly just addressing the false interpretations this anti had to say about Feyre and her family.

I'm not sure how to sign off now lol, but I guess just that I hope this was enough to show how this anti's arguments were completely ludicrous and have absolutely no compassion for Feyre, and instead all the compassion for Feyre's abusers. This anti had a real spin on what the actual story was, and I hope the evidence I provided was enough to show that. Anyways yeah my brain is fried, and I'm done arguing with Feyre anti's for a while now, I need to go praise my queen Feyre so I can receive some semblance of peace.

anyways, stan Feyre for clear skin xx

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spaceskam · 3 years

Text

welcome to another "I wrote this at work ignore the typos" situation featuring content in the little teaser for s3

ao3

"Michael Guerin with a cup of tea. Interesting."

"Bettering myself with soothing beverages," Michael said, leaning back in his chair as he looked up at Alex. He still felt a little off kilter, but he had no intention of guilt tripping Alex. It was a work in progress. He was a work in progress.

"Is that a quote from self proclaimed life coach Isobel Evans?" Alex asked, cocking his head to the side and smiling. Michael felt dizzy with it. It'd been so long without that fucking smile.

"How'd you know?" Michael asked, trying to keep the conversation light and not let it drift to an antagonistic place. He was good at that. Unfortunately, he was less good at keeping that at bay. "Where's the boyfriend?" Work in progress.

"He couldn't stick around, had to get to a meeting. He just met me at the bus stop," Alex said. Michael nodded and only then let his eyes drift away from his face, giving him a quick once over and tried not to be greedy with it. He still had his bags. "Is this seat taken?"

"Yeah," Michael said, casual as possible because Alex deserved that, "Saving it for this guy I met a few years back. You might know him. Around my height, dark hair, nice biceps, used to be in the army, killer thighs–literally, I almost suffocated me once."

"Shut up," Alex laughed, sitting across from him, "And I wasn't in the army."

"Same evil."

"Fair enough," Alex said, clasping his hands together and leaning forward, "Man, what's a guy gotta do around here to get a drink?"

Michael absolutely did not get his hopes up about this.

"Just sit there and look pretty," Michael said, pushing himself to his feet.

He'd been working a little harder and getting Sanders to make the place look a bit nicer in the front so new comers would show up, both resulting in everyone making more money. It was the most money Michael had ever had saved up before and he barely knew what to even do with it. He'd never wanted it before, never wanted to act like he was here to stay, but now it was there and now he could pay for Alex's drink.

He allowed himself to feel a little good about himself for that.

He order a medium vanilla latte, extra vanilla and an extra shot of expresso like he'd seen Alex order when they were a younger. Before he was a complete fuck up. Before when ordering anything but black coffee felt rebellious. And he paid for him for the first time. And he absolutely wasn't prideful bringing it back.

The look on Alex's face said he was also aware that this was the first time he could afford to buy him something so trivial, but he wasn't going to say anything because he was Alex. He took a sip as Michael sat across from him again and he smiled with a tiny bit of foam gracing his top lip. Michael felt his chest constricting with some twisted sort of pride and he refused to let himself be embarrassed by it.

"Thank you," Alex said.

"No problem."

Then they lapsed into silence, drinking their respective drinks and staring. Alex never turned his head away like he usually did; Michael never broke the silence like he usually did. None of it was awkward or uncomfortable or tense. It was just... having non-alcoholic drinks with someone he loved in whatever sense of the word he could.

It was nice. It was easy. It was something so completely different than Michael knew what to do with.

He craved more.

"So, do you need a ride to your house so you don't have to walk with all that?" Michael asked, definitely not mentioning that Forrest at the very least could've taken it. Granted, there's a chance he offered and Alex declined, which would be very much like Alex, but still. If he can kiss him, he can help with his bags.

"Depends. Are you willing to drive out to the middle of nowhere?"

"So that was a sold sign," Michael said. Alex took a deep breath and nodded.

"Yeah. It was a nice house, but it didn't really feel like home, you know? And after everything..."

"No, I get it," Michael said, nodding, "So where are you staying now?"

"Old Valenti hunting cabin. My cut of the inheritance and what I'm getting for selling my house is gonna be used on making it decent," Alex said.

"And amping up the security system," Michael added. Alex grinned and nodded.

"And amping up the security system."

"Well, it's my day off, so I can definitely take you," Michael said, not saying he took the day off specifically to meet Alex. That wasn't necessary information.

"You don't have to."

"What if I want to?" Michael asked. Alex looked at him, still smiling but he was clearly a little wary. "Just let me help out. I'm even going to try to not make you feel bad about the boyfriend."

"Oh, well, thank you so much for your efforts," Alex said sarcastically, but his tone was light and his smile was even more so, "But you really don't mind?"

"Alex, it's the least I can do," Michael said. It sounded weird in his voice, but it felt right. Alex seemed to agree if the look on his face said anything. Michael was more than a little proud of himself for not second guessing himself or assuming the worst.

Maybe he actually did do some growing.

"Okay then. Let's go."

Having Alex in his truck again didn't feel real. He was giddy in a way he hadn't felt in awhile and the fact that his bags were on the floor and not between them made that feeling skyrocket. Alex was comfortable with him. Or, at least, he seemed to be.

"Did you have fun?" Michael asked. Alex huffed a laugh.

"Well, I mean, I was doing dirty work, so not really. Forrest met me a couple times but I never wanted him to stay too long, was way too dangerous," Alex said, turning in his seat to face him.

"When I came out there with Kyle, you let me stay awhile," Michael said. He wasn't bragging. Absolutely not. He was simply useful for the task at hand and Kyle had to get back to work. Them eating take out on a hotel room floor and staying up too late was just convenient, a secret little addition to the trip.

"Yeah, but I trust you not to get killed by accident," Alex said, "Forrest had a good childhood. He's not at all aware of his surroundings like you are."

"Good for him," Michael said, readjusting his grip on the steering wheel. Alex may or may not have noticed.

"Also," he said slowly, "I'm kinda getting spoiled with the telekinesis thing, I'm not gonna lie."

Michael bit the inside of his cheek and tried not to be unnecessarily happy with that.

"Well if you ever need to make use of it, I'm your man," Michael said. Alex hummed in response–Michael couldn't tell if it was an acknowledgment or agreement.

It was around a 45 minute drive to the Valenti hunting cabin and the trip there was a bunch of small, winding, hand-made paths. You couldn't find it if you didn't know it was there. It was perfect for Alex.

Michael helped him get his bags inside and took in the fact that most of the stuff that had been in his house wasn't present. The furniture was broken in and there were a few boxes around, but not enough to hold everything from his house.

"I need a change," Alex said, going to the breaker box to turn the electricity on, "I thought that when I came back the first time that would be my big change, but I just did more of the same shit. So this is a real change."

"Sounds like it'd be good for you," Michael agreed.

"Yeah," Alex sighed, looking around. His eyes eventually landed on Michael again. "Do you have to go?"

"No, not unless you want me to," Michael said. Alex nodded.

"Move some boxes for me, telekinesis boy?" he asked. Michael grinned.

"Sure."

The spent what felt like two hours rearranging and unpacking and cleaning, Alex encouraging him to show off in a way that felt so ridiculously good. Everything about this was good. Spending time with him without expectation and tension and time limits.

He loved him more than his body had space for.

"Michael!" Alex said, immediately followed by a laugh, "You're going to break something!"

"I won't, have faith," Michael said, pulsing with the attention, "And if I do, I'll fix it."

He twisted his wrist, manuvering the fully put together bed frame through the door with his mind. It bumped into the door frame once or twice, but Alex just laughed and lightly scolded him.

Later, once they did what they could and got settled, Michael found himself on Alex's back porch with cans of coke in hand instead of beer.

"I love the view," Michael said.

"There's deer that'll get close if you're quiet," Alex said, "You'll have to sit with me to see them sometime."

"Yeah, whenever you'll have me," Michael said.

"Whenever you want," Alex responded. He sounded like he meant it.

Him meaning it didn't stop his phone from lighting up, didn't stop the way Alex's face closed off, didn't stop the way he sighed and locked it back. He took a long sip of his drink before he spoke.

"Forrest is on his way," Alex said. Michael shifted in his seat and nodded.

"So I should go."

"Do you have work tomorrow?" Alex asked instead of saying leave, instead of saying stay.

"Yep, bright and early."

"Okay," Alex said, "If I bring my truck up there in the morning, do I get privileges where I can sit with you in the back while you look over it and tell me what I need to fix after it sitting in my yard for nine months?"

Michael swallowed the lump that rose in his throat. He was leaving, he had to go because it wasn't his place to stay right now. But there was a promise of tomorrow. Of spending more time together just because.

The privilege of it, Alex said.

"Absolutely," Michael said, standing up, "I'll squeeze you in."

"Cool. I appreciate it," Alex said, looking up at him with a smile, "And I appreciate you helping me out today. Made all of that a lot easier."

"Not a problem," he said, "So I'll see you tomorrow?"

"Wait," Alex said quickly, getting himself to his feet and coming closer. Without much of a warning about what exactly was coming, Alex wrapped his arms around his neck. Michael hugged him back easily.

Alex squeezed him; Michael squeezed back.

"I'm so glad you're back," Michael whispered against him.

"I've gotta come home at some point, right?" Alex whispered back. Michael nodded.

They held on for longer than they should.

"Alright," Alex said after awhile, letting go with a reluctance Michael wasn't so unfamiliar with it ached, "I'll see you in the morning. I'll bring food."

Michael didn't like to get his hopes up.

He decided not to be scared this time.

#malex #malex fic #michael guerin #alex manes #roswell new mexico #my fic

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