#tyzula meta
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Issues With the Tyzula Ship That Tyzula Shippers and Fics Typically Avoid
Stereotypical Tyzula Ty Lee: “Azula-san, I completely forgive you for everything you ever did to me or my best friend and have always loved you unconditionally. I will help you become better, even if it means risking the quality of my life, my other relationships, my sanity, and my life itself. I will magically be able to help you deal with your myriad of mental issues, as if you always only needed love and affection, instead of real medical help. I will always love you, even if you don’t really change your behavior, or worse, remain the same power hungry bitch you grew up to be. I love you ‘Zula.”
Look, I am not opposed to Tyzula, for I actually think that they had a real friendship, even if there was a massive power imbalance, that got fucked up by Ozai’s abusive teachings and Azula trying to act as her sovereign and friend at the same time. But there is a tendency among Tyzula shippers and fics to make Ty Lee forgive Azula way too easily, make Azula not deal with her flaws or make (proper) amends to Ty Lee and Mai, retcon Azula into a soft baby who didn’t do anything wrong other than get abused, and/or gloss over the issues between the two.
For example, If Tyzula occurred pre-Boiling Rock like some fics imply, do you think it would have been consensual? Especially considering that: there has been a massive power imbalance (Azula is Ty Lee’s Sovereign) since their childhood that Azula took advantage of even then, Azula forced Ty Lee to join her squad at firepoint, and Ty Lee is deathly scared of Azula?
And if it happened post-Boiling Rock, there is a massive power imbalance in favor of Ty Lee since the moment Azula “acts up”, and it doesn’t have to be a big thing since Ty Lee is scarred shitless of Azula, Ty Lee can call Zuko to jail her and/or have Aang de-bend her.
In my opinion, there are some Tyzula fics that properly deal with the pre- and post-Boiling Rock power imbalances, but most of them just gloss over them. And not helping is the fact that comics imply that the two never had a real relationship at all, and that Ty Lee is still deathly afraid of Azula, willing to chi-block Azula the moment she is anything other than docile.
Also, how come most Tyzula shippers and fics don’t talk about what LoK’s Turf Wars said about Sozin outlawing homosexuality, and the implications it has for a lesbian or bisexual Azula? For if Azula, who tries to be the model princess in a post-Sozin Fire Nation, can’t even realize that using fear is not a good way to maintain relationships, how would she deal with the fact that she has feelings for girls?
Most of the Tyzula fics or headcanons I have read don’t seriously deal with the fact that Azula is deep in the closet and/or suffering from serious internalized homophobia, and thus likely would not express her sexual preferences in public unless she was in an extraordinary situation, or got serious therapy plus years of self-reflection and character growth. Not to mention the fact that she would be one of the leading perpetrators of homophobia by virtue of being Ozai’s right hand general and advisor.
So, do I have a valid point about how Tyzula shippers and fics often engage in abuse and/or toxic relationship apologism? Or I am just being too harsh on a group of shippers that have been vocally condemned by the greater ATLA community, and most likely will never see their ship be canonized? And yes, most of my own fanfic works do contain Tyzula, so feel free to call me out down below if I am being a hypocrite, and holding people to standards that I can’t uphold.
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#avatar: the last airbender#atla#azula#ozai#avatar the last airbender#web weaving#atla meta#tyzula#sokkla#azulaang
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why do you ship tyzula? (not hating. just curious)
Simply put, I personally ship tyzula because i find the complexity of their relationship very interesting and enjoy imagining what they could have had in a world where they freed themselves from the things that tied them back.
Click “keep reading” to see me elaborate on how I interpret their relationship and what I feel holds them back.
(NOTE: I promise I am NOT one of those tyzula stans who disregards Ty Lee and her feelings. This analysis focuses on Azula because Ty Lee in canon is only restricted when Azula is restricted.)
Azula loves (whether platonic or romantic) in a strange and unhealthy way. She completely devotes herself to a person, bending to their will, in a desperate attempt to keep them by her side. This is why love is her biggest weakness. Outside of her family, Ty Lee is the person Azula cares about most. This is seen in the way she immediately softens when she realizes Ty Lee is crying.
Even when they are enemies, Azula does not wish to harm Ty Lee. She fights her when necessary and after subduing her she does not try to cause further injury. In fact, she looks shocked when it is suggested she would kill Ty Lee.
It is like the thought has never once crossed her mind. This scene makes even more sense when you remember how she ordered for Ty Lee and Mai to be locked up for treason, a crime that is usually punishable by death.
However, despite all this, we do see her harm Ty Lee in the show. In the first episode we see with them together, Azula intimidates Ty Lee into joining her mission. This is an inexcusable move as it scares, upsets and emotionally wounds Ty Lee. That said, the reasons behind the action itself are explainable.
The thing that restricts Azula, and thus restricts Ty Lee, is Firelord Ozai. Azula is the most dedicated to Ozai in the show because he is the only person who has consistently been by her side.
Ursa left home in a sacrificial act to save Zuko.
Zuko was banished and Iroh left with him.
Mai was forced to move for political reasons.
Ty Lee left to follow her dreams.
Thanks to Ozai, Azula was completely isolated with only him to rely on. She was dependent on his love alone so she would do anything to make sure he stays with her. That is why, in Return to Omashu, she was willingly to hurt Ty Lee in ways she normally wouldn’t. Every episode with the two of them outside of The Beach was them living in Ozai’s constraints. She can show her true feelings for Ty Lee in those isolated moments and Ty Lee can return that love without fear or hesitation.
I think that these two have potential in a world where Azula breaks free before she can hurt Ty Lee or, alternatively, a world where she learns to be better and seeks forgiveness from Ty Lee.
#again just to be clear i’m not trying to excuse azula’s actions in RTO#sorry if this isn’t articulated very well#atla#avatar the last airbender#avatar#azula#ty lee#tyzula#ty lee x azula#azula x ty lee#meta#analysis
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what would’ve happened if azula was the one who had an iroh and zuko stayed back? (their characters and personalities would be the exact same as in canon, but their roles would be reversed)
love u<33
TAKING A BREAK FROM STUDYING = azula breakdown time <333
im ngl, we're prob gonna be looking at a longer post today bc this is a lot to breakdown😭 so buckle up chickies we're going IN
THINGS WE HAVE TO COVER IN THIS ANALYSIS:
how Zuko leaving did affect Azula
how being forced to leave did affect Zuko
how being forced to leave would effect Azula
how Azula leaving would effect Zuko
how Iroh's effect on Zuko would translate to Azula
the literal changes this would have had on canon
so let's get into it!!
Zuko leaving and it's effect on Azula
So, we know Azula has a problem with abandonment, starting with her mother and ending with Zuko. To try and keep this as short and readable as possible, I'm just going to say that this obviously resulted in a constant need for control over the people she loves, very obviously shown in her relationships with Mai and Ty Lee and even Zuko in season three.
She also just has a very convoluted perception of love (obligatory azula love-fear-control analysis plug), that largely stems from never having it readily accessible to her. Now, even when Zuko was around, they never had a good relationship and she was always his tormenter, but what if they had reconciled? What if they had been able to heal that broken relationship? We'll never know if that could have been a possibility, but Zuko leaving ensured all true familial had been removed from her life.
How being forced to leave affected Zuko
We all know that being forced to leave his home and his family had a huge impact on Zuko as a person. It made him rash, angry, and determined to find the Avatar so he could return home at the cost of anything—even his own life.
Iroh became his anchor, guiding him through the worst of his turmoil and always steering him in the right direction. Iroh kept him human, and stopped him from killing himself trying to capture Aang.
Pre-banishment, we did still see that Zuko was snippy, and still had a temper that could be brought out at times. But post-banishment, all his childhood sweetness was abandoned. Anger became his default setting and his source of power. He was definitely struggling with at least some level of self-resentment and a simultaneous lack of confidence (never being good enough) and over-confidence (required to believe that he could find a man that had eluded the world for a hundred years)
Overall, his banishment made him fueled by anger and constantly at war with himself
How being forced to leave would affect Azula
Azula is a very validation-motivated creature. She has to be perfect, at all times, at all costs. There is never a misstep with her, never a miscalculation. So much as a negative word from her father could destroy her and push her off the edge.
So, imagine this girl, this super-perfectionist, messing up so badly that she is banished from her entire nation? Her father disapproves so much that he disowns her and threatens death in the event that she ever came back?
In the (honestly unlikely) event that she doesn't immediately kill him/overthrow him or try to harm herself in any way, and follows Zuko's storyline of leaving to find the Avatar... yikes. However angry and obsessed Zuko became with finding the Avatar, Azula would be a hundred times worse. The psychological breakdown she had at the end of the show? Yep, that.
She would tear through research and the entire world, leaving death and destruction in her wake. She would become a monster. (Of course, having a support system like Iroh with her would help immensely, but we'll get to that in a bit.)
There is also the question of: would Mai and Ty Lee come with her? If we're following Zuko's banishment to a T, then she should be banished at age thirteen, around a year before we meet her in canon. I'm not going to lie, that's a whole other analysis in and of itself, so maybe I can do a separate post on that later?? Send me an ask if you're interested😭😭
How Azula leaving would affect Zuko
There are two things we have to remember here: despite being the oldest sibling, Azula was always the favorite and most accomplished of the two. He was always ridiculed and looked down on due to being so far behind his sister, in raw power and cunning both.
But at the same time, this means that all the pressure to succeed was put on Azula's shoulders. It's why she became such a perfectionist. She always was perfect, so now she had to perfect enough for both of them. Now, where Zuko had been mostly given up on, they would be pushing for him to step up as heir and become the perfect one.
This is a pressure he's never had to experience before. Azula was the way she was for a reason—she became a perfectionist because of that pressure, and Zuko would probably become the same way.
Of course, I still think he would keep his sympathy and genuine humanity that Azula often lacked, but he would be forced to push it down most of the time. Where he had been grounded by Iroh in the show? Gone. He would have absolutely no one to turn to, absolutely no one to support him. If we're sticking to canon, maybe he would have Mai, but that's where it stops. And he would probably be the over-controlling POS he was in the first half of season three, maybe even worse.
Overall, Azula being banished would absolutely destroy Zuko, and probably push him to that same psychological brink Azula was teetering on the entire series. It wouldn't be pretty, that's for sure.
Zuko & Iroh -> translated for Azula & a mother figure
Okay, in order to fully answer this question, we have to take note of all the things that made Iroh and Zuko work:
Iroh losing his own son, and Zuko filling that cavity in his life
Zuko having an abusive father and Iroh becoming his father figure
Zuko needing and Iroh being an anchor in Zuko's life to keep him human
Zuko being given up on his entire childhood and Iroh being the first person with genuine faith in him and willing to help him
So, let's translate these things into Azula, and a hypothetical mother figure (disclaimer!! no hate to Ursa; this is just all from Azula's perspective and how she views her relationship w her mother <3):
Azula's mother figure potentially having once had a daughter that she was too hard on/did not treat well and wanting the chance to do right with Azula
Azula having a mother that believed she was a monster, and her mother figure reassuring her that she is human and does have the capacity for good
this mother figure also being an anchor in Azula's life, and saving her from absolutely destroying the world trying to go home
Azula being forced to be perfect her entire childhood and her mother figure being the first person to genuinely help her and allow her the space to make mistakes and reassuring her that it was okay
(Okay, not gonna lie here, this idea of a mother figure for Azula is really getting to me—the urge to write a fic I'll never finish is STRONG)
Overall, a mother figure that would support Azula and genuinely care for her would have had a colossal effect on her. I really believe that Azula would have been able to have a happy ending. idk this is really getting to me😭
AND FINALLY:
the literal changes this would have on canon
For one, I genuinely think Azula would have succeeded. Azula has always been a prodigy, and while Zuko was able to become powerful with the guidance of Iroh, Azula started out that way. I also think that while Azula's mother figure may have been able to steady her and keep her from the brink, she never would have been able to quell Azula's ambition. Her ambition is just too much a part of her, the same way Iroh was never able to quell Zuko's fury.
Also, Zuko did have Aang a few times! But he also had the sympathy to let him go, or was just not powerful to stop him from getting away. Azula was different. Genuinely nothing could of stopped her from capturing season one, inexperienced, little kid Aang. It may have taken a few shots, but she would have done it.
I really think Azula would have succeeded and returned home as a new woman, with the support of her mother figure, and now with the capacity to genuinely love people (at least to some degree.) I think Azula and Zuko would have been able to repair their broken relationship. Azula would have become Firelord with Zuko as her advisor, and the Fire Nation would have reigned in a new era. The Fire Nation also most likely would have been successful in conquering the world, now.
So, happy ending for Zuko and Azula and most of the Fire Nation, but... no one else lol.
wow! this was actually such a fun idea to play with. probably one of my favorite asks you've ever sent me<3 i love u sm we are unstoppable
#new backlogged-elegies collab just dropped??? no fucking way#also lowkey the tyzula potential here....... could go so hard. what#atla meta#atla analysis#atla#fire hazard siblings#atla azula#azula#zuko#atla zuko#fire lord azula#atla au#avatar the last airbender
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queer atla headcanons
aka me, a bisexual nonbinary mass of flesh, testing my gaydar
Aang: pansexual, goes by he/they, assumes everyone is pan unless given an indication otherwise, audibly gasped when Tenzin came out as straight, constantly argues with Katara over which flag (bi or pan) is prettier
Katara: bisexual and demisexual, she/her, came out to Aang while they were engaged by saying "Aang... I like boys and girls" and to this day has not gotten over the fact that he responded, "yeah ofc, doesn't everyone?", only identifies as bi because she doesn't like the pan flag's yellow
Sokka: bisexual, Zuko was his bi awakening, deals with some internalized biphobia poor bby but works through it eventually, bonded a lot with Katara over their sexuality crises
Suki: they/she but still considers themself cis, aggressively bisexual and poly-questioning, takes offense to being called an ally, she and Sokka facepainted each other's cheeks with the bi flag for their first pride parade and it is still one of their most cherished memories <3
Toph: goes by she/they mainly, doesn't care a ton about labels but identifies as ace and pan, knows every gay bar in the United Republic and drags Sokka to them often (Suki highly encourages this), uses neopronouns when they feel like it
Zuko: bisexual, so so so much internalized homophobia from the Fire Nation but he also works through it, comes out to Mai first after a few months of internal and her response is just "cool," had a gender crisis for a while there but is 99% sure he is cis... probably
Mai: queer but doesn't want to put a specific label on it, Ty Lee sees auras but Mai sees Gay^TM and is as a result never surprised when ppl come out, holes herself up in the palace every pride month (bc Zuko did declare it to be a thing after the war) bc of all the colors
Azula: thought she was bi at first but realizes she was a lesbian in denial when she gets the healing arc she deserved, calls everyone into the royal meeting room to say, "I am a lesbian" and the resounding response is "Yes aren't you and Ty Lee dating???", also takes offense to be calling an ally after she accepts her sexuality, spirits help you if you make a bigoted comment in her presence bc she is the embodiment of queer wrath
Ty Lee: lesbian, goes by she/her but is fine with any pronouns, claims to have a gaydar through auras but everyone knows that Mai helps her out, helps Azula come to terms with her sexuality and they are the most adorable gfs after Azula's healing arc,talks to Bosco abt her girl problems (and he is always very understanding)
feel free to disagree or agree with me but these are just my personal opinions and takes on each of the characters!
#atla#atla meta#kataang#maiko#tyzula#sukka#zukka#if you look closely#queer atla#atla headcanons#aang x katara#katara x aang#mai x zuko#zuko x mai#ty lee x azula#azula x ty lee#suki x sokka#sokka x suki#pride#so much gay
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i'm curious,what way you ship Tyzula 👀
I’m glad you asked! I really do like this ship and exploring the dynamic. The short answer is that I think they definitely had feelings for each other in childhood, but ultimately the relationship becomes mutually toxic and is something Azula needs to let go of as part of her journey to true healing. So I see Azula’s relationship with Ty Lee as an important part of her story, but not the end, if that makes sense.
I mean, there is clear attraction here:
And I’m pretty sure Ty Lee is the only person Azula genuinely apologizes to:
Like, there are definitely some strong feelings here. It’s just that people change—especially people like Azula—and sometimes that closeness turns into more of a codependency and becomes toxic for both characters.
I feel like I don’t need to delve much into Azula’s toxic traits because those are fairly obvious, but I think Ty Lee’s (often overlooked) toxic traits would play a role here.
Honestly, this could be a whole post by itself, but the summary is that Ty Lee’s ultimate toxic trait (and what enables her to be a villain) is her selfishness. It might be hard to recognize at first because she’s such a follower, but if you examine her actions and choices, Ty Lee ultimately does what makes her feel good without really caring about how it affects anyone else. She doesn’t question the war or what she’s fighting for because it doesn’t matter; all that matters is what best serves her.
Ty Lee likes everything to be happy and carefree and fun and overlooks problems in order to uphold that illusion. Azula would initially be very drawn to that because she probably would want to engage in that escapism early in her redemption journey, because she doesn’t want to think about the past. But the past doesn’t just go away, and ultimately Azula needs someone who is able to confront that with her and be able to support her emotionally. Ty Lee just wouldn’t, in my opinion.
From what we see in the beach, Ty Lee is very wrapped up in her own world and problems. She wants to feel unique and stand out, and I think she’s attracted to Azula because she gets that validation from Azula; Azula values her for her talents in a way most people don’t. But I don’t think on a deeper emotional level, Ty Lee could really be there for Azula. What I envision is Ty Lee talking Azula’s ear off, Azula getting exhausted from it, then in turn, Ty Lee gets upset because she feels like Azula isn’t giving her enough attention. And attention is definitely something Ty Lee demands a lot of. I also see Ty Lee getting uncomfortable when Azula tries to open up about something and ultimately leaving Azula feeling like she can’t open up, which is definitely not a healthy dynamic.
So basically, even though they have history together and some things in common, their personalities fundamentally clash and they can’t really support what the other needs. Azula at the end of her healing journey needs a woman who is kind and compassionate, but who also has a strong backbone and is willing to stand up for herself and others. Ty Lee just isn’t that person. She’s too much of a follower.
But that’s just my opinion on their dynamic, not trying to start discourse or anything. Ty Lee doesn’t have that much screen time so I recognize there are lots of ways to read her; this is just my interpretation.
#tyzula#anti tyzula???#not really though because i do enjoy writing them#azula#ty lee#atla#avatar: the last airbender#ask#anon#meta
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Since I've gotten a fair few asks about the Tyzula ship (some of which are still sitting in my inbox) during my time on this site, I have decided to outline my reasons as to why I do not ship or like Azula/Ty Lee, in a similar way to what a mutual of mine has done regarding Zutara (you may or may not know who you are, just wasn't sure if you would be okay with being tagged!).
So here goes....
Reasons I do not ship or like Tyzula from a canon perspective:
There's just nothing there. I'm not seeing anything other than friendship. Never once does either character, or the narrative, even hint at the fact that it could be something more.
It essentially ruins Ty Lee's character arc. The entire point of her arc was learning to stand up for herself, be independent, and prioritize her own happiness. This includes not letting Azula run her life anymore, and tell her what to do.
Azula, in her current state, is not ready for a romantic relationship with ANYBODY. Leastways, certainly not a healthy or functional one.
There is no evidence to suggest that Azula OR Ty Lee is attracted to the same sex. In fact, canon shows us literally the exact opposite. Both express and display romantic interest in boys, granted Azula's interest is more limited.
Ty Lee is literally not even on speaking terms with Azula post-canon. And for that to change, Azula would have to do some serious introspection and growth as a person, and make amends for how she mistreated those close to her. Even then, Ty Lee very well may decide she wants nothing to do with Azula, which is actually perfectly rational.
Reasons I do not ship or like Tyzula from a fanon/fandom perspective:
It's EVERYWHERE. You cannot avoid it, no matter how many tags or blogs you block, and it's annoying.
The majority of Tyzula shippers don't even seem to like Azula or Ty Lee as individual characters, independent of each other. And it shows. All they think about is how they can relate a post, headcanon, or piece of art to their ship.
Tyzula fics and headcanons are laughably OOC, and misrepresent both characters horribly - especially Azula. Look, I understand that we all have to change or add some things to make our respective ships work but there are limits. Personally, I draw the line at Azula repeatedly beating and raping Ty Lee but maybe that's just me.
Tyzula shippers have just been absolutely, unrepentantly nasty to me (and to some mutuals of mine) on a personal level. I have been bullied, harrassed, forced out of fandom spaces, lambasted as a lesbophobic bigot, and told to kill myself for the crime of not liking the ship, preferring to ship Azula with men, and criticizing this behavior on my own blog. That being said, seeing posts or art about this ship literally makes me want to puke, or just flat out makes me angry.
Semi-related to the above point, Tyzula shippers just refuse to stay in their own fucking lane! They go out of their way to make stupid comments on art or posts promoting other ships, and pick fights with people who disagree with them (also anyone who disagrees with them is automatically dismissed as being lesbophobic).
When you ask people in this fandom to explain why they see Azula as a lesbian, they either say something to the effect of """vibes""" or scream at you for oppressing them and hating lesbians.
(If you all have anything else to add, I would love to hear your thoughts!
Unless you're just a salty Tyzula shipper who feels like telling me off or calling me lesbophobic for the 323467th time, don't waste your time because you will be blocked immediately and no one will entertain your stupidity).
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Note to Self … write or create something for Azula using “Eight” by Sleeping at Last.
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Aside from Maizula, shat are your thoughts on Maizulee? Can be romantic or platonic, whatever you want.
oh i love maizulee. it's the only context in which i think tyzula works but i am a bit of a tyzula hater (mostly just cuz of fandom portrayals of it ignoring ty lee's personality and reducing her to just a bubbly sunshine-y girl).
as a friend group, i of course believe that they were genuinely friends as kids and things only started getting fucked up after ursa left and azula was only under ozai's "care," but even then i think what we see in the show is more the result of azula being in charge of them in a military context because they're... on a mission. like i think azula utilizing complete terror to control ty lee so she'll join the mission is not something she would do just like... if they were simply hanging out. i mean she's still an asshole, but azula when she's just hanging out with ty lee and mai like in the beach is an asshole in a very different way from azula hanging out with mai and ty lee while on a military mission.
i'm trying to think what i can say that won't give away too much of my plans for wasuremono? but also i think the history of memory is a great starting place if you want to see more of my thoughts on maizulee 'cause i fleshed out their childhood there pretty accurately to my current thoughts on them.
oh, i'll say this: this is maybe controversial, but i think maizulee would be the healthiest and happiest option of the possible ships in that trio. like i like maizula best of course and i get why mailee is popular (side note: i'd like mailee way more if the fans weren't like insane about azula, fans are very good at ruining things), but i think maizulee is a ship where you could see the girls being happier than they would be if it was just mailee or maizula and a lot healthier than if it was just maizula or tyzula. i won't get too into why that is because i think it's apparent enough from wasuremono as it is planned at least.
i'll do some better meta on them later, but i will say that maizulee is my second favorite atla ship, and i actually initially conceived of utterpok as having endgame maizulee. i'm coming back around on that idea a bit, but idk i haven't committed to changing what i'd have to for that.
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Tyzula
Oh boy.
vomit / don’t ship / ok / cute / adorable / sexy / perfect / beyond flawless / hot damn / screaming and crying / i will ship them in hell
But let's talk about Tyzula, or more accurately, let's talk about what we do when we run across a ship that vicerally repells us, and also what to do when we see someone who does not sbip what we ship.
So I hate Tyzula as a ship, it is my hardcore NoTP, same with Maizula. And the reason for this is that the dynamic between Azula and her companions was an extremely accurate and well-written portayel of the kind of abusive, controling "friendship" I experienced, and it hits way too close to home, either for me to want to read it in an accurate to canon form, or to see it explored in less accurate to canon ways.
But that doesn't mean it's actually wrong for people to want to explore that abusive dynamic and add a romantic or sexual componant, or for people to engage in the kind of wish fulfillment that would be recasting those relationship in a less abusive light. That is fine. It's fine. It's fiction, and not some deep moral indictment of their character. I like some pretty hairy stuff in fiction. I will not judge.
Conversely, the fact that I write meta about the canon dynamics of the Azula-Ty Lee-Mai abusive friendship, and Mai and Ty Lee's solidarity in the face of Azula's abuse, and how this affects all three characters and their arcs, is not aimed as an attack on Maizula/Tyzula shippers. But this meta regularly enough garnered the response that obviously it was about shippers, especially along with the fact that I have stated that I don't like these two ships, and I don't ship them and won't write them, that this is the reason I had to turn off anonymous asks and why they're almost always off. Because Tyzula shippers kept sending me absolutely vile anon hate. My favorite example of which is the one who called me a homophobic straight girl who thinks all the lesbians want to rape her, in spite of the fact that I am openly bisexual, write femslash, and have been open about being sexually assaulted by another girl. This was over a ship.
So what we do when we don't ship something, even if it viscerally upsets us, is we filter our tags, and curate our experiences so that we see it as little as possible, and we let people who enjoy it, enjoy it. And when we see people who don't ship what we ship, and aren't enjoying the thing we enjoy, we say that's nice and we don't try to force them to see it, because everybody should be allowed to like what they like, and dislike what they dislike, and we don't "win" when we force people to like what we like and only what we like. Let other people like things or not according to their own lights, and be nice.
#avatar the last airbender#posts i created#azula needs her own warning#circus freak is a compliment#mai doesn't hate you#do you want to ask a question it doesn't have to be a question
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I believe that’s why a lot of people have always assumed Azula is a lesbian because of certain episodes like The Beach.
I don’t like shipping or care for it at all with Avatar but there is unintentional queer-coding when it comes to ATLA characters like Azula and I know there’s tons of metas about this already but it’s really neat that such a headcanon is that popular considering how many people hate any notion of ATLA characters being queer (looking at you ATLA fandom that exists outside twitter or tumblr).
Yeah, Tyzula has been the default Azula ship for a very long time. I think it's nice that so many people were able to read representation into a narrative which never could have officially included any LGBTQ+ people in that period.
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your post about mailee says everything i’ve felt about how this fandom (and many others) treat female characters, especially in the context of sapphic shipping.
i could never personally get into mailee due to the annoyance that is it’s fandom. the constant bashing of certain sapphic ships by proclaiming them as toxic (as if that isn’t the appeal) was so annoying to see in 2020 that it sadly left a sour taste in my mouth.
it also just fits into the most boring stereotypes of cute and fluffy sapphic ship!! something that tends to be the case nowadays.
but even with all that aside it’s obvious why mailee exists. they’re a side pairing for more popular ships and oh what a surprise, it’s a mlm ship leading it. i can’t deny that zukka fans mostly contribute to mailee content because they do but also how deeply annoying it is to see this pattern of wlw side pairing for mlm over and over again.
especially with atla of all shows. a show that actually has a complex female character whose unintentionally lesbian-coded but people will not bother exploring her queerness because shes “mentally ill” or “too much” or “she doesn’t need that rn” or whatever excuses people come up with.
it’s a shame to see all this play out but i’m not surprised. at the end of the day it’s always going to be mlm or f/m at this point.
oh wow i'm glad to hear i'm not the only one feeling this way!! like i mentioned in my previous post, i honestly don't really like mai, but i've tried to get myself to over the years. in 2019 i had rewatched the show and thought "hey, mai and ty lee are kinda cute together, i still don't love mai but maybe i could if i try to think more deeply about her character and see if i can find some meta and fics and such that flesh her out and examine her good points. maybe ty lee could be someone who really understands her and brings out the good in her". but mailee was very much a rarepair back then and i could only really find fluffy drabbles to read. i like fluffy drabbles and all, but they just weren't what i needed in this case. so then in 2020 the show gets put on netflix, i come back from a tumblr hiatus to see there's been a massive fandom renaissance, and now mailee is so popular it's getting to high numbers on weekly fandometrics lists! great!
so then i again look for content about them and see that a ton of it is either zuko-centric or zukka-centric with them as a side pairing at best, and zukka just isn't for me. i have a close friend who ships it so i understand the appeal, but i'm always and forever a zutara stan. i could've multishipped (i do reblog cute fanart of them on occasion) if i didn't keep seeing things from the zukka side of the fandom that really frustrate me, this being one of them. and every time i choose to dive back into the fandom and see if things have improved it's still the same, i should not have to go through 53 of the most kudos'd fics in mailee's tag before i find a fic about them especially since they have less than 1/5th the amount of fics as zukka in the first place, and it just makes me sad that this is an issue in almost every fandom. i may not like mai, but you would really think the people making shippy content involving her would like her and be willing to actually focus on her in said content!
as for the constant bashing of other more "toxic" f/f ships and unwillingness to examine another female character's complexity and potential queerness while using her mental illness as an excuse... i believe i know exactly who and what you're talking about it's an issue with certain mailee content for me as well. see, even though i've loved ATLA since i was a kid and have been on the internet just as long, i used to always dismiss the concept of tyzula because i myself never appreciated azula enough and wasn't interested in ships with her (and because frankly i really hate how azula's voice actress sexualizes the ship). but on my current rewatch of the show i've started loving azula a lot more and now like to imagine her redeemed and happy, repairing her damaged relationships with her family and friends and maybe even falling in love. i've realized that part of the appeal of tyzula for me is that while, yes, azula's entire dynamic with both mai and ty lee is toxic and messy during the show, i don't personally think it always was. i think the three of them were genuine friends until things gradually got fucked up because of how ozai's treatment of azula fucked her up. and i think that if azula were to have a redemption arc, the 3 of them could salvage what once was and have a healthy friendship again.
a lot of mailee fans do not seem to agree with this, though, because i've seen several metas and headcanons that rely on the idea that the two of them were always just afraid of evil, nasty azula and that they can bond over how much they hate her. i am not here for that, and yeah, i'm also not here for the whole "this ship would never work because [insert character] just isn't ready for a relationship, i ship them x therapy!!" thing fandoms love to use as a way to demonize certain ships. mentally ill people can be in happy, loving relationships and they can go to therapy while in said relationships. they can even use therapy to--gasp--figure out how to keep their mental health issues from getting in the way of continuing to have healthy relationships! this happens in real life and i fully believe it can happen in a fantasy cartoon for children. also, i know some people use the comics to justify the idea that mai and ty lee have just always hated and been afraid of azula, because apparently it's implied in those that they were fake friends? but fuck the comics, they're OOC and horribly written lmao.
this ended up being a much longer reply than i initially intended but yeah, all this is to say that i 100% agree with you and thank you for sharing your thoughts, anon. sapphic ships and the female characters within them deserve just as much space in fandom as m/m and m/f ships get, to be fully explored and appreciated in their own right and even to sometimes be complicated and imperfect.
#asks#anonymous#oh man i'm sorry this is so long and i'm sorry to shippers if this appears in your tag#that's why i censored the names in my initial post#anti mailee#anti zukka#not... really?? more anti these ships fandoms than anything#but idk tagging it just in case
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No, no, tell us more about your thoughts on tyzula
alright,,,, i feel like this was a long time coming with how much i talk about my deep love for azula and her character arc so i'm gonna write a pretty lengthy analysis/discussion here about it all,,,,,,,, i'll put in it a read more so people don't have to scroll past a super long post if they aren't interested, so click below if you DO wanna read it
right SO, in order to understand the crux of why tyzula is so compelling and such a complex ship to understand, we have to understand azula as a character first
to preface, i should clarify that i'm not the kind of person who enjoys the "people are born evil" narrative because it's pessimistic, cheap, and in my opinion, not realistic. i think that characters can progress past the point of redemption, sure, but i don't think that any person is inherently meant to end up a monster
azula is a character who has never received unconditional love. the only reference to positivity in her childhood that we get is ozai's praise of her as the better firebender. this, however, is conditional love to the fullest; growing up knowing your value to your parent is intrinsically tied into what you can accomplish makes you highly defensive of losing your ability and disappointing, because then, what do you have? maybe this is the gifted kid in me speaking, but being identified as "special" at a young age is SO damaging in so many ways
azula only knows love in the form of praise for her abilities, not for her as a person. her mother certainly had no unconditional love for her in the way she did zuko, in azula's mind at least. azula herself says that her mother thought she was a monster; now, we can argue until the hippo cows come home whether or not ursa ACTUALLY thought this but it doesn't change the fact that this is how azula PERCEIVED it. she watched zuko receive love from their mother and their uncle while all she ever received was praise for what she could do, not who she was. she also received praise from her father and admonishment from her mother, so it's natural she would be inclined to follow her father's - horrible - advice rather than her mother's
anyways, now that we've established azula's lack of understanding of unconditional love, let's talk about ty lee. ty lee is the first one to give azula a taste of what love is. now, again, much of this is borne out of manipulation on azula's part BUT this is mainly because azula only knows how to receive approval through actions and not character. for ozai, she molds herself into what he'll approve of; for ty lee, she molds HER into something that won't be swayed by azula's flaws
nonetheless, we see some real azula peek through when she's with ty lee. during the ember island episode, we get a pretty sincere apology from azula to ty lee that feels VERY out of character for someone who never apologizes for anything. we see azula's dependence upon ty lee as, on the surface, something related to ty lee's abilities. however, it does seem strange that azula chose a non-bending circus girl as one of the members of her elite, inside squad (no i'm not arguing ty lee isn't strong or powerful, i think she's actually one of the most powerful characters in the show re: chi blocking, but azula probably wouldn't think this immediately)
INSTEAD, azula chooses ty lee because she TRUSTS her. trust is how love manifests when you aren't taught how to love in the first place. ozai, the only person azula thinks cares about her, puts his trust in azula to carry out his orders so she, in turn, does the same as an expression of care and love. because that's what she thinks love is! love to her is "i trust you to do this for me when i can't" and not "i trust you to do this for me because you WANT to"
because azula doesn't GET to want. she only gets to DO
so, now, let's get into the betrayal, turning, rebellion, whatever you want to call it, at boiling rock
IF azula only ever expresses real compassion for ty lee, and we've established that trust seems to be the way azula expresses this compassion most of the time, a betrayal would be the worst possible thing for her to face. she's already dealing with mai turning on her and choosing zuko, although i'd argue this was always in the back of her mind considering mai and zuko's relationship. what she ISN'T expecting, however, is ty lee. ty lee, who she trusted explicitly, turning on her and choosing the other side. because in azula's mind, she's not sure what she's done wrong! she's carried out orders perfectly, she's the strongest, she's the logical option at this point in terms of who will win the war
and still, ty lee turns on her
so now we have an azula who's lost the one person she cared about most (if we're going on the context clues of the show), and it breaks her. breakdown azula sends away all her advisors and protectors out of fear that they'll betray her because she's already been betrayed by the one person closest to her, so what's stopping all of them from doing the same?
her hallucination is important in understanding tyzula too; her mother talks about her use of fear to control people and azula replies with "trust is for fools, fear is the only reliable option." funny how hallucination ursa never mentions trust here and yet azula talks about it, huh? because trust is equal to love in her mind and she just lost any semblance of love she had left in her life the moment ty lee left her. i could write a whole other thing about the symbolic hair cutting here, but i'll save that for another time probably because this is already getting long and it'll turn into a whole discussion about hair in the avatar universe
ANYWAYS, this is all essentially why i love tyzula so much. we have a girl who doesn't understand and has never felt real, unconditional love losing a person who DID love her deeply but couldn't trust that her actions were good
we have azula, who was raised in a restrictive environment where her abilities were the only things keeping her from being physically abused (because she was regularly being emotionally abused if we're being honest), trying to grapple with understanding what GOOD even looks like
it's worth it to mention that azula was raised in a highly homophobic environment as well; it's not coincidental that bryke specifically confirm it is the fire nation who criminalized homosexuality. azula's internal homophobia, compounded with her inability to understand love, makes tyzula this tragic mish mash of almost, maybe, but also never
in any other world, tyzula happens a million times over; ty lee and azula are childhood friends who grow up, lose contact, come back together, and break free of their oppressive environment that neither of them are truly suited for (azula mentally and ty lee emotionally)
in the world we're given, however, this is everything they CAN'T be. and that's what makes them so fantastic
i love azula, i think about azula a lot, i RELATE to azula, my heart breaks for what she could have been if she weren't a product of her environment. but, more than anything, i'm just so heartbroken by azula getting SO close to understanding what love is but coming just short because the one way she expresses love, through trust, is the one thing she feels ty lee breaks
and isn't that the tragedy of it all?
#sorry anon this is SO long sxvsxgsdysvdg and turned more into an azula meta than a tyzula love fest#but their tragedy and toxicity is what makes them so fascinating#because they have all the makings of an epic wlw pairing but azula is just SO broken she gets in her own way#also totally unrelated but while i was writing this i was thinking about how azula's descent into madness#is what game of thrones tried and failed to do with daenerys#and now i kinda wanna write an azula dany meta thing too dvasyvdsadahsdvasdj#anyways yeah this is why i love them#asks#anon#tyzula
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Long text ahead💦
“I don’t think Azula had a deeper connection with either of them”
but why? Is it because Azula is secretive and aloof when it comes to expressing strong emotions like pain and love? Or because she didn’t love them the same Mai and Ty Lee loved her? Because after Ozai and Zuko, there’s no one else in the world Azula felt closer to than Mai and Ty Lee. Sure, their friendship was by no means healthy, but it was genuine and it should go without saying. Not to mention Mai and Ty Lee were Azula’s only friends. Meaning that if she had sensed that they were “fake” friends who only respected her because she was royalty and all back in the Royal Fire Nation Academy for girl school, they wouldn’t have become friends in the first place.
Azula understood Mai better than anyone. Because she experienced her pain firsthand; What it’s like to be nobility who have to live up to the expectations of the demanding supremacism county every single day, what it’s like to suppress your emotions not to disappoint your parents under whose pressure you have to live and grow, what it’s like to stay silent when you want to speak up, what it’s like to conceal your pain and most importantly, what it’s like to live with all this every single day for years. And so much more. Ty Lee didn’t seem to understand Mai that way, or understand the seriousness of Mai’s issues altogether. Here’s why basically: https://wingsfreedom.tumblr.com/post/665296611351642112/mai-and-ty-lees-relationship-was-not-lovey-dovey You might have read this before hut here goes. BTW, do you read this blog? It’s very similar to zuko-always-lies, therefore pretty great.
You said it yourself, that if Ty Lee hadn’t stopped them from killing one another, and one of the two somehow survived, they killer of the other would never be the same anymore. And not only because of PTSD and the feeling of actually killing a person, but because neither of the two wants the other to die. Mai and Ty Lee actually know what a monster her father is because hello he burned his own son and banished him. So they understand that she had no choice but to become who she became. So Mai and Ty Lee pity Azula and Zuko. Provided if Zuko shared with them in detail how exactly Ozai fucked up Azula in the head, they’ll become more likely to forgive her and want to help her recover.
They may want to hurt each other physically/emotionally/psychologically at most due to the resentment and anger that the three of them harbored thoughout the ages of their toxic friendship with her but they don’t want to kill each other (comic!Mai almost did though lol but the comics are not canon~). I wouldn’t be surprised to find out that they actually just want Azula to become a better person, fix her mommy and the other issues and finally be friends again. Normally this time. And if I remember correctly, you also said that you can’t imagine Azula not reconciling with Mai and Ty Lee eventually and becoming friends again. Neither can I. And not just friends. I believe that they would be life long friends like Aang and Zuko. Sisters in arms, you could even say. Who have known each other since childhood until death. Oh, for some reason I just remembered a very important theme of the Avatar Universe. That friendship can last longer than lifetimes. Moreover, if Mai is confirmed to be Izumi’s mother, Zuko’s wife, which is I belive like 80%, then that makes her and Azula sisters-in-law. Basically family.
So if that’s not a deep bond/connection/relationship, then I don’t know what is. Alhough, I may not comprehend what a deep bond means (given how unsociable I am lol). Phew. I sure wrote a lot. Hope you’re still here. I’d be happy to hear your thoughts! Have a nice day, Nichya^^
***
Everything you said it’s correct, I think I just chose my words poorly. When I said “She doesn’t have a deeper bond with either of them” I meant it as “She isn’t closer to one than she is to the other/she doesn’t have a favorite”, and not as in “The bonds she has with them are actually not that deep.”
Even looking at Mai and Ty Lee’s friendship, it isn’t all that different from their friendship with Azula, since despite all the love they do have some problems, mainly related to traumas they have not yet healed from. The only real difference is that Azula’s position as princess of a nation that normalizes, expects and praises abuse made her oscilate between “leader of the group” and “tyrant of the group”, and since the girls respond to it differently, some people end up thinking “Oh, Ty Lee is the one she’s actually close to since she shows more affection to Azula and she reacts well to it” or “Oh, Mai is the one she’s actually close to since they’re much more alike” when in reality Azula loves both of them equaly
(And their friendship is the gayest thing to happen in the Fire Nation since Sozin turned to Roku and said “Look, I know this is your wedding day and all, but do you wanna rule the world with me? It will be totally platonic, I swear”)
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I just realized something...
This has probably been pointed out before, but when was the last time Azula ever received genuine affection from someone that cared about her? When her mother kissed her cheek goodbye? We know Ozai could never. Zuko was banished and their relationship was too strained anyway. Even when her mother was around she was pretty much shown next to nothing. There was no hugs. No “I love you’s.” And the one and only time we do see it Azula was asleep for it. She wouldn’t have had any clue that it happened.
So this quite literally may have been the first hug Azula received in years.
#avatar: the last airbender#atla azula#atla ty lee#atla ozai#atla zuko#atla ursa#atla meta#atla tyzula#hynt3r posts
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Fandoms seem to like making f/f ships one lesbian + one bi woman, and when people do this with Tyzula it tends to be lesbian!Azula and bi!Ty Lee. I’m a bit surprised by this in light of The Beach. Ty Lee doesn’t seem romantically interested in any of her suitors, to the point that she freaks out when asked to express explicit romantic interest (“Which of us do you like-like?”). She even has a not-necessarily-romantic motive for leading them on, the attention issues that Mai points out. On the other hand, Azula does seem actually, genuinely into…Chan? Chaz? I can never remember his name.
Of course when you zoom out and look at the series as a whole, Ty Lee’s got her crush on Sokka, which lasts way longer than Azula’s novice attempts at flirting. So I guess the standard arrangement makes sense. Still feels weird to me.
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