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#the strong boys
atopcat · 3 months
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Thinking about this excerpt from Fire & Blood about King Aegon III Targaryen.
During the hour of the wolf he can oft be found standing by a window, gazing up at the stars, but when I presented him with Archmaester Lyman’s Kingdoms of the Sky, he showed no interest.
Late at night Jace sneaks him outside and shows him the constellations. His favourite memory is of Luke reading him tales about the celestial beings who live in the night sky. When news comes of Jace’s death Joffrey holds him tight, he tells him dragons don’t die they become stars.
Aegon’s not gazing at the stars, he’s looking for his brothers.
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There's this weird thing going on Reddit right now where people are claiming that legally, Rhaenyra children are not bastards. And I was wondering if you agree or disagree. I think that people are just making up their own canon lore at this point.
Hi anon,
I think what gets kind of muddled in this discussion is what "legally" means in the context. Generally speaking, children born within wedlock are considered legitimate until proven otherwise. Now in the medieval world, it's not like you were issued a birth certificate that you could whip out and say see, it says right here who the father is! There were no DNA tests, it was all a matter of word, and by and large a woman's virtue was her word, and it was what kept her and her children protected within the framework of medieval marriage. But the reason why bastardy matters in this context is also important. It's not like Rhaenyra is trying to collect child support here, nor is she a common merchant's wife whose husband has decided just to roll with it. She's the heir to the throne and the parentage of her children is a matter of inheritance and dynastic succession, so it's not a situation where a legal loophole is particularly helpful as a gotcha. There is not at this point in history a comprehensive codified law that clearly defines what these terms mean and defines the rights and obligations of parents and children legitimate and illegitimate, mostly you have combinations of precedent, tradition, oath, and a healthy dose of might makes right.
(I saw another reply to this question in which the responded basically goes, "free yourself from the shackles of this construct! Marriage isn't real it's an oppressive institution and the idea of bastardy is made up, so let it go," and while it's true that marriage, legitimacy, etc. are all social constructs and not absolute states of being, they started off as having a functional purpose within a certain social framework. And this is a basic problem a lot of people have with George's world, it's not that we have to have the views of a 12th century French peasant, or that everything has to be historically accurate, but George chose the medieval world as a setting for a reason, and it's not just an aesthetic one. Characters in even a quasi-historical setting have to act within the constraints of that setting. We have to understand that people don't know what they don't know. The medieval world doesn't have any framework for the introduction of feminist ideals. Westeros hasn't even had a Christine de Pizan yet. You couldn't walk up to a medieval peasant woman and say "marriage is a tool of patriarchal oppression and bastardy is a social construct," they'd look at you like you had two heads. And so we have to acknowledge that you can't simply start dismantling existing social structures if the framework doesn't exist to replace them with something better that offers more protections for a broader group of people, and at this point it definitely doesn't. Making an exception for one very privileged woman does not mean progress for all women, instead it often means destabilization of the flawed system that does exist, and even more violence against those less powerful in order to enforce the exceptional status).
So from a medieval point of view, marriage was pretty much a non-negotiable for a woman. And women weren't simply getting married because they were pressured into it by their families or because their fathers were opportunistic assholes, they got married because unmarried women had no legal status or standing. In most places they could not sign contracts or own land. A woman could join the church or get married (or become a prostitute, but it's not like sex workers had freedoms or protections either). Divorce wasn't a thing, and annulment was hard to get and usually available only as a tool for men to set aside their wives. So, for all intents and purposes, once you were married, that was generally it, you were stuck for life (the upside is that widows did get a lot more freedom, so marrying an older guy and waiting it out was not a bad option sometimes, all things considered). But what marriage did provide was assurance that you and your children would be protected and provided for. Marriage was a practical agreement, involving dowries, inheritances, and alliances sealed in blood. And this is one of the reasons why bastards could not inherit. Inheritance for once's children was one of the few perks of a marriage for a woman (this is, incidentally, why Alicent is so pressed about her children being effectively disinherited. There is NO reason for her, as an eligible maiden of good standing, to marry a man who will not provide for her sons, king or not). And of course, a man's bastards are obvious and are disqualified from inheriting (setting aside legitimization because it is not nearly the easy out that people think it is). You can't really pass them off as legitimate because your wife clearly knows which children she gave birth to, whereas a man might be told he is the father of a child when that child's father is in fact someone else.
In a dynastic marriage, all of this becomes even more important. Marriages were made as alliances and to strengthen the ties between kingdoms or houses. A child seals the marriage agreement by binding two bloodlines and creating kinship bonds that will last beyond the current generation. Those kinship bonds can ensure peace between kingdoms at war, trade agreements, and military aid. Passing a bastard off as trueborn breaks that agreement; it violates the very principle by which the agreement was made. And in this context, it doesn't actually matter if the father claims the children as his, because in a dynastic marriage inheritance is not just a personal matter, it's a matter of the state. The truth matters to a great many people, more than just the immediate family. A lie doesn't become the truth simply because the liar isn't caught, and there's no statute of limitations or court ruling that will ever put the matter to rest for good. Passing off a bastard as trueborn destabilizes the succession and breaks the dynastic bonds that the marriage was meant to establish. When the bastard heir in question attempts to take the throne, it won't be a smooth transition.
So what does it mean that Laenor and Corlys agree to pass Rhaenyra's children off as trueborn? It means that their bastardy cannot be proven at the moment insofar as the legal father, Rhaenyra's husband, is playing along and covering for Rhaenyra, and Viserys is backing them up by giving this his "legal" stamp of approval. But again, our view that it's no one else's business but Laenor and Rhaenyra's and that Viserys "legalized" their status is very modern. Jaehaeyrs and Alysanne were not considered married in the eyes of the Westerosi until they'd had a bedding ceremony, that is, the consummation of their marriage was witnessed. Royal marriages and the children that come from them are a public matter because the succession affects everyone in the realm. Laenor, Corlys, and Viserys can protect those children in the short term, but Laenor and Corlys and Viserys won't live forever, and they could withdraw their support for those children and renounce them as bastards at any time. Harwin could admit to fathering them, Rhaenyra and Harwin could get caught in the act, or someone else close to them might confess. Sure right now the black faction are all one big happy family, but 20 years down the line when bastard Jace takes the throne over trueborn Aegon III? There are multiple people in the family who could confess to knowledge of the bastardy, including Aegon III himself. The bastardy is too obvious and there are too many legitimate heirs of both house Targaryen and house Velaryon getting pushed aside in favor of bastard born children for it to be an issue that simply disappears because Rhaenyra and Laenor say so.
So "legal bastardy" is a pretty meaningless concept when it comes to royal succession because it's not a matter that's going to be settled by some neutral third party in a court of law. What matters in the long run is not whether or not Laenor claimed the kids, what matters is whether or not the situation is questionable enough that people with the power to challenge it might challenge it. And we see even within the actual narrative of the Dance that this is indeed the case. There is already a situation brewing with the other branches of the Velaryon family who are rightfully pretty pissed to see their ancestral seat pass to someone with no blood ties to the family (and as an aside, people will say Vaemond was self-serving, and of course he was, but that doesn't make him wrong, and maybe Baela or Rhaena should have inherited instead, but neither they nor their father were pressing their claims because they were backing up the bastard claimants, so was Vaemond supposed to do that for them?). And yes the king and Rhaenyra can cry treason and they can kill Vaemond and cut out tongues, but using force to silence people for telling the objective truth is by definition tyranny, and that's exactly the sort of situation that would get the nobility nervous. Because if Rhaenyra has to silence people already and she's not even queen yet, what will Jace have to do when he takes the throne? That's the real problem, not the "legal" status of Jace and his brothers, but the practical ramifications of hiding the truth.
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craybii · 2 years
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Summing up the reactions to Harwin’s heartbreaking death
Little Jace wants to be at Harrenhal to mourn Harwin (and his granddaddy)
Rhaenyra shuts him up immediately because if someone were to hear him, she could be in a lot of shit
Rhaenyra says she’s found her joy away from her marriage (Harwin) and she trusted him
Regrets that she ever allowed him to go back to Harrenhal
Almost tears up when Daemon points out he at least can mourn his losses in public
Jace draws out his dagger the moment Aemond mentions how Harwin died in the flames
Rhaenyra tells Daemon that fire has taken from both of them something they LOVED (Laena & Harwin) (though these are her words, I’m not sure how much Daemon cared for Laena - she deserved better)
In the BTS stuff, the showrunners say she’s grieving for Harwin
So people who’re complaining we didn’t get enough... I think this is plenty. In fact, she’s shown more sadness over Harwin than Daemon did over Laena. Rhaenyra can’t show her pain anywhere or to anyone, or talk about Harwin. Neither can the boys, because any single sad look or word of pain would be an instant confirmation of the rumors that everyone’s spreading. And that’s why she left King’s Landing - to get away from the rumors. 
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bohemian-nights · 7 months
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Rhaenyra (+Daemon) betrothed Baela and Jace along with Rhaena and Luke for political reasons and political alone. That’s not to say that Baela, Jace, Rhaena, and Luke don’t have feelings for one another but to act as if Rhaenyra and Daemon just betrothed then because they believe in “tRue LOve is stupid. And in general I don’t understand why everybody believes that Team Black is a happy family with no problems. Especially when canon evidence proves otherwise. Jace doesn’t like Daemon, Baela was sent to Driftmark (against her will), Rhaena is addressing her stepmother/cousin as “your grace” or “my Queen” which is the equivalent in modern times to a stepdaughter acknowledging her stepmother as Mrs. _, Luke is unfortunately very insecure and only exists in scenes so we can see how good of a mother Rhaenyra is, we saw Joffrey a handful of times and I don’t believe he spoke not once. To top it all off Daemon choked Rhaenyra.
Everyone likes to talk about Team Green’s dysfunctional family relationships but at least their open with their dysfunction. Melanie Martinez’s Dollhouse is quietly playing in the back of all of Team Black’s scenes.
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Yep. It’s not about love(such is the case for Dumbnyra too because if it was Daemon wouldn’t abandon Rhaenyra ever chance he got).
The headcanons that they are all one big happy family is nothing but pure cope. Those kids were not happy:
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And neither were Dumbnyra:
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Team Green is definitely not perfect, but they are a unit and when push comes to shove they would die for each other(that’s why Rhaena eventually married into House Hightower 😊). Team Black 😬
Well Daemon did say he’d feed his kids to some dragons 🤷🏽‍♀️
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There is one person that Daemon would die for though 😏(You know my crazy a** has to throw this in here):
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i-live-for-hotd · 7 months
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House of the Dragon Hot Take #9
Just an FYI if you're actively calling the Strong boys shit like "abominations"/"freaks"/"mutants"/"mistakes" you're a fucking weirdo. 🤗 Especially if you're doing it because they're bastards. Wait till you guys find out about children in the modern day world being born out of wedlock, or single parents, or adoption for that matter. I get it if you don't like Team Black or their characters but saying shit like that about literal children and teenage boys is something that needs to be studied.
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hotcupofdragons · 1 year
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I found the comment about the wifi that I mentioned in my last post This is from Elliot and Harry’s TikTok Game of Thrones Live! Please I love these two boys so much
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maidensfancy · 5 months
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there is some very real criticism of the way some people talk about rhaenyra's kids and their bastardry but the term bastardphobia will always make me giggle. its never that serious
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lookatthethrones · 2 years
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Is it just me or is the actor doing some subtle symbolism with his hand here?
Its probably not the true origin of a toast* but some say the whole point of toasting began as a sort of way to guard against poisoning during a feast with adversaries. That you clinked the glasses so some of each others drink spilled in the other so if one was poisoned you both were. And holding his glass with his fingers covering the top, almost as if to protect the contents, is a subtle way to say 'I dont trust you' but also, maybe, in an unconscious way, 'and I cant be trusted either'.
Also the accusatory finger being being pointed by the hand holding the glass is just so great.
* afaik the earliest mention of toasting goes back to the Romans putting bread crumbs, stale bread, or toasted bread in their wine bc Roman wine tasted super acidic, bitter, and generally vile. I think the Greeks were the first to use it as a strategy to guard against being poisoned by an enemy. Only later did it morph into a custom about offering a blessing of good health to another person or persons.
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thesunfyre4446 · 5 months
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re: your post about rhaenyra having joffrey knowing full damn well he would look like harwin, the part in parentheses about choosing a baby daddy who looked more like laenor reminded me about this tb comment (i think it was on tiktok). the comment (or a reply to it, idk its been a while) said that tg hate that rhaenyra chose to have a child with someone other than laenor (i mean its the internet so its entirely possible someone has said this, but most critiques ive seen criticize how she chose to have them with harwin specifically). the commenter said something about how tg would still hate her if she DID have laenor's kids, saying that the only way that would work is if she forced him. which. sure. again this is the internet so i CAN believe someone has said this (although these comments are pretty much the only times ive seen this point brought up), but also again most of the criticism is about how she chose to have her kids with HARWIN, who notably looks nothing like her or laenor. there were other options, either someone who looked like her or looked more like laenor. and yeah, its not really as simple as that. theres other things to consider, like who would look that close to rhaenyra, or if the person she chose to have her kids with could be properly trusted, etc etc. but harwin really wasnt the only option just because rhaenyra trusted him to keep it secret, since it was obvious the moment jace's hair was brown that he wasnt laenors.
it's important to remember that in westeros hair color matters more than skin color, so really all rhaenyra had to do was to find a blonde guy haha
i don't think that TG really cares about rhaenyra's choice to not have children with laenor, (obvs i can't speak for all of us) but this does create a lot of trouble for her and the children down the line, which i think TB likes to deny \ ignore.
rhaenyra ignores the problem she has created for her boys as well, just like her father - she has created a potential succession crisis between her sons. with her legitimate sons from daemon having a stronger claim than the strongs.
also, the strongs will have to face mockery, rumors and gossip for the rest of their lives.
i think that after rhaenyra saw that she managed to get away with having jace, she just figured she could do whatever she wanted because viserys was obvs never going to punish her - and as long as he was alive, she was right. she failed to see how having 3 bastards would significantly weakened her claim, and even more important - the consequences it will have on her children's lives.
would TG still hate rhaenyra if her children were legitimate? i honestly don't know because that decision is what makes rhaenyra rhaenyra. she wants to peruse her own happiness, she refuses to be used as a "broodmare" (i think that she still has a lot of trauma from aemma's death), but she's also impulsive, she's arrogant, she doesn't play the long game, she thinks she can get away with everything. her decision to have 3 children with harwin really mirrors who she is. that's the reason a lot of TB loves rhaenyra for that choice. if she would've chosen to sleep with laenor (let's say that he was also willing to do his duty) and have his children than for better or for worse, she wouldn't be rhaenyra.
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camilbarnessss · 1 year
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Am I the only one who honestly wonders about why Ser Criston wasn't present at Vaemond's hearing scene?
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And why Rhaenys wasn't on the Targaryen dinner either if she was still on The Red Keep?
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they are so lesbain btw ugh
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atopcat · 5 months
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"(...) there were always rings on her fingers. Whenever she was anxious, she would turn them compulsively around."
— George R.R. Martin about Princess Rhaenyra Targaryen.
Look at the colour of her rings:
A black stone for Jace, he’ll be crowned King Jacaerys I Targaryen and continue the Targaryen dynasty.
Turquoise stone for Luke, he’ll be Lord Velaryon, Lord of the Tides and Master of Driftmark.
A plain gold band for Joffrey because unlike his older brothers his future hasn’t been set in stone, he can choose his own destiny.
When Rhaenyra’s anxious she holds her sons close, maybe out of reassurance that as long as she has them everything will be alright.
But we know it won’t be 💔
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House of the Dragon 1x06: He knew the answer before he asked the question.
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getoutofthisplace · 7 months
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Dear Gus & Magnus,
Mom worked today and the Choate boys had an action-packed day that started with soccer at 9am. Magnus lost interest 15 minutes into practice and kept running off. My back has been hurting and I couldn't keep chasing him today, so we left a little early, went home to get our waters, then headed to Allsopp Park for Harriett's birthday party (Gus's class) at 10, which was the exact same time/location as The Village's monthly playdate (Magnus's class), so that was a full-on blowout that also included a solar eclipse watch-party.
We went home for lunch, then I put Mags down and loaded up the truck with our camping gear because we met the Strong boys at a campsite about 45 minutes out of town. We cooked hot dogs and s'mores and ran around the woods for a little bit. We were all in bed by 8:45ish, but of course it took everyone a while to settle down and fall asleep.
Gus had his own sleeping bag and he inch-wormed his way around the tent all night. Magnus and I shared a sleeping bag, but he refused to stay in it, but when he'd get out of it, he'd get really cold, so I spent the night dragging him back into the bag. At 3am I noticed his onesie was wet. He didn't smell like pee, but I don't know what else it could be. I wrestled him into a new diaper, new pajamas, and when I finally got him set and I thought my back was going to snap in half, he said, "I wahn get up now." Thank gawd I got him to go back to sleep.
Dad.
Bigelow, Arkansas. 10.14.2023 - 6.18pm.
SIDENOTE: More photos of the camping trip here.
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homefryboy · 6 months
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*vegeta voice* i just didn’t care anymore
(commissions open)
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amalgamasreal · 10 months
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So Universal Pictures may have just intentionally over-pruned all of the city owned trees in front of their LA corporate office in an effort to fuck with the WGA/SAG-AFTRA picketers during what is predicted to be the hottest week of the year so far:
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And the LA City Controller is looking into it:
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Once again it looks like it's time for:
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