“The Team Black kids are boring. They have no individuality.”

I think it’s clear that the showrunners have pretty much thrown Jacaerys, Lucerys, Joffrey, Baela, Rhaena, Aegon and Viserys under the bus. There is little to no focus on them. And they did this because they want to make the Greens look better (making Aemond the poor sad little bullied kid, and Helaena a “dreamer”, which is non-canon).

GRRM developed each and every one of the Team Black kids. Baela and Rhaena had glowing and completely different personalities and they were not just smiling dolls (like they are on the show). Jacaerys was a true leader at only 15. Lucerys was pretty much a hero, saving his little brother in Driftmark, and Joffrey had more importance. Not to mention that Aegon (10 years old) and Viserys (8 years old) were constantly by Daemon and Rhaenyra’s side (and not just mentioned).

And if by “lack of individuality”, they mean being a family and a team (unlike the greens), then yeah, I guess the kids do lack that individuality (and I like it).

Giggled

Its unfathomable to me people thinking Daemon hated the Velaryons boys, so he only shared Rhaenyra’s grief because he didn’t get to kill her sons himself ? He didn’t gaf that his biological children adored those boys ? He lived with them for ten years, if Daemon wanted his step sons dead, he would’ve already done it. Why can’t people fathom a successful non-nuclear family ? He would have killed Joffrey before going on his suicidal mission to finally avenge Lucerys as he had promised from the beginning. He knew their family was destroyed (psychologically), and he wanted to give them a fighting chance to survive, so he sacrificed himself to end the threat of Vhagar, knowing that Joffrey was heir to the throne at that point, never pushing for Aegon the Younger as heir. He betrothed his daughters to those boys, Baela refused to leave Jace, insisted on fighting by his side on her dragon even though Moondancer was not yet large enough to be ridden, and announced she would marry Jace immediately, Rhaena went to the Vale with Joffrey, c’mon.

@kataraavatara has a video on their TikTok that lists some of what you point out HERE. Go check it out, they're consistently great.

Yeah, pretty much.

"Jocelyn Baratheon has died by the time the Dance of the Dragons begins. Her nephew, Lord Borros Baratheon, claims to have never known his aunt."

but I also want to know Jocelyn's POV about Jace, Lucerys, and Joffrey. Does she accept them or not?

Yes.

The Velaryon Princes

Artwork by @lycheesodas (twt/ig)

oh BABY

imagine your siblings all having beautiful valyrian names like rhaena and lucerys and your name is joffrey

velaryons 🌊 I mean not really but

Families

twitter / Kofi    

It’s kind of insane that the main father figure Joffrey had around was Daemon, that kid definitely bites😭

JACAERYS & LUCERYS VELARYON

The Velaryon brothers

a rumored bastard and a proven, disinherited, legally illegitimate recognized bastard are not the same.

Rhaenyra’s sons are rumored bastards, i know the show has a lot of team green stans feeling bold but just as in the books, they are never legally considered bastards in the show either. they are speculated to be via their physical features and Laenor’s apparent sexuality, but since Laenor and the KING (btw Westeros is a absolute monarchy, meaning the king IS law) both claim all three boys as legitimate heirs, unless someone demands a medieval dna test, those kids are legally Laenor’s true sons.

this is apparently a very hard concept to understand for some, hell even Alicent in the show says something like “we can all tell” which fair point, but that is not proof enough. looks, accusations, and rumor are not the same as actual proof of adultery or bastardy.

someone i was having a “discussion” with used Joffrey as an example to point out a flaw in my logic, but ultimately proved my point. Joffrey was a rumored bastard. Ned himself had no more proof than Alicent does, just hair color and a hunch, so Joffrey was never legally disinherited from the line of succession. I hate to defend either of these men but King Robert never publicly disowned him and called him bastard, which is why Joffrey ascended to the Iron Throne. now the rumors did hurt, and caused huge political issues leading to the War of 5 Kings, which is exactly why Alicent and Team Green is so insistent that Rhaenyra’s children are illegitimate, they know they cannot legally or physically prove her children are bastards, especially when Laenor and the King are claiming them are true born, but they can spread the rumor and call into question Rhaenyra’s honesty and morality. think episode 8 when team green takes their chance with Vaemond to attempt a coup of sorts for the Driftmark Throne, why would the succession of Driftmark need to be settled if Rhaenyra’s sons are true born? why would Alicent / Otto need to make this decision in place of the sick king and mia lord of tides who both had already been stating Luke would inherit for years. it’s all apart of the scheme to tarnish Rhaenyra’s reputation as Vaemond has no other proof either, and promptly loses his head (both metaphorically and literally) by calling the recognized heir to the throne a whore and her children bastards with no proof in front of the whole court.

it is a political scheme on both sides, Alicent cannot prove anything, and Rhaenyra cannot disprove the rumors no matter how many times they are claimed as true born sons. Rhaenyra has to live in the comfort the law gives her, as legally her sons are seen as legitimate, and thus legally they are protected. and from an unbiased pov with both in universe and historical references, those kids might be bastards in actually but not legally.

Rhaenyra goes through hell to keep her children legally protected, not only for their sake but for hers because should the truth come out both her and Laenor would be seriously punished, i wouldn’t go as far as executed but that would depend on if Viserys was old and bed ridden or dead. which is why im making this incredibly long post repeating myself in every point. you can argue all day about Rhaenyra’s children and their parentage but i am making this to make it clear that her children are not *legally* bastards by Westeros law. in order for Jace, Luke, and Joffrey to be illegitimate bastards Laenor, Rhaenyra, Harwin, and/or Viserys would have to publicly acknowledge them as such and disinherit them. no, Laenor and Viserys dying do not magically make Rhaenyra’s children legal bastards either. they would, again, need to be claimed and proven as such and disinherited.

and at the end of it all, true or not true, the rumors made a lasting impact on the story. so much so this fandom is still debating this topic, and frankly i am dreading the season 2 release when all the bad takes and bad faith arguments start up again.

anyway other famous rumored bastards are in Targ history are:

Maegor

Daeron II