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akiizayoi4869 · 1 day

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The Southern Raiders

Been meaning to make my own post about this episode for a while now, so hear it is. The main thing I hear about this episode is that Aang didn't understand Katara's pain at all but Zuko did. The notion that a genocide survivor doesn't understand another genocide survivor is certainly one hell of a take, and it's very stupid. Are we really going to forget the air nomad genocide?

Aang lost EVERYTHING because of the war. And to make it worse? He feels guilty because he wasn't there to stop it from happening (even though he wouldn't be able to do much since he hadn't mastered the four elements yet) because he ran away from his duties as the avatar. When Aang finds Monk Gyatso's body in the Southern Air Temple episode, he's overcome with so much grief and anger that he triggers the avatar state:

Katara herself even compares what she's been through to what Aang was feeling in this moment by saying "I know how hard it is to lose the people you love! I went through the same thing when I lost my mom." Certainly sounds like two people who understand each other perfectly if you ask me. Also, in the Lost Adventures comics, we're shown that the Fire Nation used a dirty tactic to smoke out any other airbenders that might have escaped from the genocide.

We see how happy Aang was to learn that some airbenders may have survived, only to find out that it was all a lie to capture any remaining survivors. At the end of the comic he looks disappointed and crushed knowing that the possibility that air nomads fell for this trick and were killed as a result.

A lot of people take Katara saying "I knew you wouldn't understand" to Aang as her saying that he doesn't understand her pain, but if you actually look at the context? That's not what she's saying at all. What she means is that she knew that Aang wouldn't understand her need for VENGEANCE. For her desire to kill her mother's killer. Because Aang was taught that revenge isn't the answer. Even though Aang absolutely understands how she felt, something that he says himself:

In both of those moments he felt extreme anger and hatred, both strong negative feelings that would have caused him to lash out and do something that he would regret later on. Who stops him in both cases? Katara. She calms him down (and can I just say that I think it's really poetic that in this specific episode, Aang's words are what calms Katara down in the end, and is why she decided to spare Yohn Rha?) in his moments of rage, something that he's grateful for.

Another argument that I've seen is that Zuko understands her pain more than Aang because he also lost his mother. While I can see why people make this comparison, those are two entirely different situations. Ursa was banished because she protected Zuko from being killed when he was a child. Which means that she's still alive (as we later find out from those horrible comics). Kya, on the other hand, was KILLED because she protected Katara by saying that she was the waterbender that they were looking for. This happened in a genocidal raid by the Fire Nation. Safe to say that Zuko can never understand what that feels like.

Also, it's pretty crazy to me how people can say that Aang was wrong in this episode, when Zuko HIMSELF says that Aang was actually right, and that what Katara needed in the end was revenge. Aang knows Katara a lot better than Zuko does, and he knows that killing the man who killed her mom would have absolutely destroyed Katara because of the kind of person she is. Just like Aang remembering how he killed all of those Fire Nation soldiers in the North Pole while he was in the avatar state and being controlled by his past lives and the ocean spirit caused him to have nightmares and be terrified of what the avatar state can do. Both of them are alike in that regard. The closest thing I can say that Zuko understands about Katara is her anger. Boy spent 3 seasons being angry so he definitely understands that. But other than that? He doesn't understand her, which is to be expected since he just joined them a few episodes ago, and spent a whole year chasing them and trying to capture Aang. So he's just started getting to really know everyone on a personal level. In conclusion, Aang did indeed understand Katara, and his words were exactly what she needed to hear.

#atla #aang #katara #zuko #atla meta #the southern raiders

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hisnie · 1 day

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I hate the way people treat Katara in The Southern Raiders.

The way that people put Aang on a pedestal of someone who can do no wrong makes me hate discussing the show with ATLA fans. I like Aang, but he isn’t the morally good character that he says he is and the fans only prove this.

In TSR, Katara is given the opportunity by Zuko to get revenge against the man who killed her mother.

First I want to start off with Katara’s exchange with Sokka.

Katara asks Aang for Appa to go on the journey with Zuko, he tries to persuade her otherwise and then Sokka tells Katara, “Katara, she was my mother too but I think Aang is right”.

And so Katara says the infamous line, “Well you didn’t love her the way I did.”

This is when people go insane but what Katara’s says is somewhat reasonable. Katara and Sokka have different versions of love for their mother, you can be siblings but still love your parents differently from your sibling. People also never put in perspective that Katara has the view of a child with survivors guilt while Sokka is able to move on from his mother’s death because he is a kid who understands war. From a young child, even in TSR episode, it shows him wanting to fight back against the Fire Nation and him wanting to be involved in the war between his people and the Fire Nation. I also believe that Sokka does feel sorrow for Yue’s death, but isn’t hung up on it like Katara is with their mothers death because he understands that at the end of the day, Yue’s sacrifice was her duty and a product of war. Their mother’s death was an outcome of war.

I love Sokka, but when he says this line:

He’s dismissing her feelings. It’s like he’s saying, “We both lost our mother, but because I don’t want revenge, you shouldn’t either” which isn’t fair to Katara at all. Ofc I don’t believe Sokka meant for it to come out like that but that’s what it sounded like.

But you can also use the fact that Sokka grew up in a sort of toxic masculinity mentality. You can also use the fact that Sokka held his emotions in too about their mother’s death and that was also damaging to him. Which is true, I could support that too.

And my response to that is that you shouldn’t force others to grieve how you grieve.

Katara can’t just forgive Yon Rha like Aang can when it comes to the genocide of his people because they are fundamentally different people with different backgrounds and settings.

Obviously they don’t force Katara to stay on the island and not go on the quest, but they do admonish her and compare her to Jet (which is a lil finicky because Jet did do bad things but also changed towards the end of his life to do good and also help the gang) which is demeaning to who she is. She even defends herself by saying she isn’t like Jet, she isn’t attacking an innocent person, she’s attacking the man who led the raids against her people and killed her mother.

This brings me to my gripe with Aang in this episode and previous episodes. I can’t recall a single episode where Aang acknowledges what happens to her and comforts her. It’s always Katara comforting Aang when he is emotionally distressed. When he learned about the death of his people, when Appa was taken, and when he was questioning his honor of being the Avatar. It’s always Katara comforting him but it’s never really reciprocated back to her.

In this scene, Aang tells Katara that she should forgive Yon Rha and she says, “I knew you wouldn’t understand.”

Because Aang never tries to. It’s either his way or no way. Aang is a pacifist and I respect that, Aang wants to preserve the culture of his people and I also respect that. However, Katara doesn’t have the same views as him. Katara never stated to be a pacifist, Katara never stated to believe in the views of the Air Nomads, so obviously there would be a disconnect between the two of them because they grew up with a different culture and different world views. They also grew up in the different times, Aang grew up in peace while Katara was born during a war.

It’s honestly disingenuous to ask Katara to forgive the man who killed her mother, just because Aang can forgive the fire nation for their atrocities to his people, doesn’t mean she can too. People grieve differently. Katara outburst was bound to happen because no one in the group ever acknowledges her pain. Only person who does is Zuko and although people like to call him a manipulator, he isn’t. He realized that Katara’s hatred for Yon Rha was being directed at him because he is a personification of the Fire Nation in her image. So he stops, learns about what happened, and tries to understand her pain.

It’s also extremely hypocritical for people to get mad at Katara for her outburst against Sokka when Aang yelled at Toph when she chose to save them over saving Appa from the Sandbenders.

People even defend it by saying

Can’t that be the same thing said for Katara?

Also, Aang never apologizes to Toph about his outburst btw. He even yells at the rest of the gang later on during the desert and also yells at Katara, “claiming that she isn’t helping” when she is the only one keeping the group together.

What also gets me is how no one realized that Katara wasn’t going to kill Yon Rha. After rewatching the series a bit, Katara was never going to kill that man. It’s not in her character to and this episode tests her character and makes her better for it.

And the lessons of the episode isn’t “revenge isn’t the way” or smth similar to that, if anything, it’s the fact that you don’t have to forgive your abusers. It’s shown through Zuko, Aang, and Katara. Zuko doesn’t enact revenge against Ozai but he also doesn’t forgive him. Aang has the right to kill Ozai for the death of his people and for the war, but doesn’t. Aang never forgave him though. And most importantly is Katara, she can’t bring herself to kill Yon Rha but at the end of the episode she tells Aang that she can’t forgive him. Aang was wrong, forgiveness can be impossible.

#atla #katara #aang #sokka #toph beifong #the southern raiders #avatar the last airbender

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sneezypeasy · 2 months

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Oh, and one more thing: Can I just point out that the "I dun fucked up, I guess I'ma wait outside your room all night until you'll let me grovel and atone for my misdeeds" is not, and has never been, a platonic trope?

(I mean, we all know who wrote this episode and how she felt about these two as a couple, but it bears mentioning that even administering a heavy dose of Death of the Author here doesn't absolve this scene from being way more shippy than it deserves to be.)

#zutara #the southern raiders #elizabeth wasn't subtle #this scene is many things but sibling energy it is NOT #siblings don't stay up all night outside each other's rooms to right a wrong #are you kidding me #they're more likely to barge in unceremoniously and insist that shit needs to get sorted out and I mean right NOW #thank you and good night

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demaparbat-hp · 5 months

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Local Turtleduck has no idea of what he's doing but it's somehow working.

#atla #zuko #avatar the last airbender #zutara #katara #atla art #atla fanart #zuko art #zuko fanart #katara art #katara fanart #zutara fanart #prince zuko #atla zuko #atla katara #katara of the southern water tribe #the southern raiders #zuko x katara #katara x zuko #Let's cut Zuzu some slack #My boy can be smooth... Just... not on purpose #He gets awkward and cute and twitchy when he's overthinking things #But sometimes he's actually confident in what he's doing and he follows his instincts and... yeah... This happens #And Katara gets whiplash #One moment there's Turtleduck Sunshine butchering tea jokes and blushing and being cute #And then there's I'm-Hot-and-I-Know-it-(actually-I-don't-but-for-some-reason-that's-the-impression-I-give) Prince throwing lines like that #By La she's in trouble #(Also can we agree that this particular scene was amazing? Yes?)#I just wanted to draw something sweet and intimate but Zuko and his unintentional smoothness forced my hand #I have no regrets

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ecoterrorist-katara · 2 months

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Zutara, romance novels, and the female gaze

Okay so I’ve been thinking about the female gaze a LOT so I checked out a subreddit about romance novels, despite never having read one. I came across this meme (which was initially a Tumblr post and then got posted to Instagram and then to Reddit and I’m now bringing back to Tumblr — Internet telephone, pls never change):

And…what is The Southern Raiders, if not a platonic grovel? Katara’s pain is central to the episode. It’s central to Zuko. Zuko asks Katara what he can do to make up for his betrayal; she demands the impossible. He reads between the lines, cockblocks her brother to get the necessary information, and then waits outside her door overnight (which he also did for Iroh, the one person we know for sure he loves). He basically makes himself a receptacle for her rage, and he holds space for her by coming with her on her revenge quest and carrying their bags and not saying a damn thing about what she should and should not do beyond like…asking her to rest. And obviously the grovel works! She forgives him and then they’re thick as thieves, bantering and fighting and saving each other’s lives, etc.

On a different note, I’ve been told that enemies to lovers is one of the biggest tropes in romance novels, similar to YA lit and fanfic. Here’s something else I found in the romance novel discourse:

And…yeah. In TSR, Katara really does show Zuko her worst self, because she doesn’t feel the need to perform for him. She doesn’t feel the need to perform moral perfection OR cold blooded vengeance. She bloodbends in front of him and he just goes with it. She doesn’t kill Yon Rha and he just goes with it. He doesn’t treat her any differently afterwards. Maybe they talk about it off screen, but I kind of like the idea that they don’t, because Katara doesn’t need to explain anything. And it’s so interesting, because some people in the ATLA fandom have a totally different read on TSR. They think Zuko was encouraging Katara to get revenge (by what, keeping his mouth shut?), and that Aang is the one who acts as her moral compass. I believe that either Bryan or Mike said in the DVD commentary that Aang is the angel on her shoulder the entire time. And this interpretation does make sense if you see it from the male gaze, where Katara as an object of affection is acting in an angry, irrational, threatening way. But if you see it from the female gaze, you recognize that actually it’s probably the most emotionally taxing experience Katara has to go through, and she doesn’t owe it to be nice or perfect to anybody. Katara’s formative trauma literally comes to a head, and she has to make a decision — no, a discovery — about who she is in relation to the tragedy that defines her life and even her identity (as a waterbender, as a parentified child who becomes the mom friend, as a genocide victim), and she’s accompanied by someone who trusts her judgement and validates her feelings.

I’m not saying TSR is explicitly romantically coded, but when it conforms so well to romance novel tropes…is it any wonder that so many people thought “yes this is her man?” And then he takes lightning in the heart for her and reaches for her when he’s literally dying, I will never be normal about that either

#Zutara #Katara #Zuko #the southern raiders #Pro zutara #anti Bryke #I guess #I swear I’m not a Bryke anti but I feel like they just don’t get #The female gaze #and the fact that Zutara is so female gaze is kind of an accident and I find that fascinating #atla fandom critical #The southern raiders turned me into a Zutara shipper #one ep away from the finale #Zutara meta #My meta

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zukosdualdao · 1 month

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speaking of zutara shipbaiting/romantic coding, can we talk about how “i don’t know why, but i do care what she thinks of me” is a relatively common statement that usually holds romantic connotations in other forms of media

#the problem with the creators both trying to somewhat appease zutara shippers and make fun of them within the show #is that they ended up sending a LOT of mixed romantic signals #atla #zutara #zuko #katara #the southern raiders

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starlight-bread-blog · 8 months

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Katara's other canon love interests give her agency, and her pov.

And gets a moment where the two connect over similar losses.

Except Aang.

Kataang is framed entirely from Aang's point of view.

Even when he violates her boundries.

And is unable to handle Katara's grief.

But Zutara?

We get Katara's pov, and give her agency.

He saw her at her very worst, and wasn't at all hostile.

And Katara opened up to Zuko in the most significant way.

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dyingroses · 1 month

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Avatar: The Last Airbender + AO3 tags

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pink-concorde · 3 months

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Catch a falling Zuko and put him in Appa’s saddle Never let him fall away

I’ve been in a scene redraw mood, so here’s Katara reaching out to save Zuko with both of them looking surprised that she is.

#zutara #Pinks Art #Pinks scene redraws #sorta #catch a falling zuko #the southern raiders #zuko x katara #katara x zuko

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longing-for-rain · 4 days

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Hey! So, I just need some help understanding something... I heard that people think that Zuko took Katara straight to Ember Island after TSR. I missed it on my rewatch, and I don't get where this interpretation comes from, and whether it is just a headcanon. Do you happen, by chance, to know more about that? I LOVE this tidbit by the way; I just don't know where it's coming from. Sorry if this is random.

Oh I’ve heard that before! From what I’ve seen, it’s based primarily on the visuals we see of the settings. Before leaving to find Yon Rha, everyone is camped out on this island:

It appears to be a small, uninhabited island (which makes sense if they’re in hiding) so clearly not Ember Island.

Then at the end, the final scene begins with Katara here:

This is definitely Zuko’s family home on Ember Island, with Katara sitting alone on the pier. In the second screenshot you can see Appa flying in.

Now here is the interesting part:

Zuko and Aang get off of Appa, and if you squint, it kind of looks like the others are in the saddle too. Based on the conversation that follows, it’s clear that this is the first time Aang has seen Katara since she left to confront Yon Rha.

So the implication here is that Zuko and Katara first went to Ember Island alone, then Zuko flew with Appa by himself to pick up everyone else from the other island. This actually makes a lot of sense logistically, because without Appa, everyone else had no way of getting to Ember Island from wherever they were before.

I really like this theory (and I think based on the evidence it’s pretty much canon) because it shows there are a lot of missing scenes between Zuko and Katara. It makes sense. He was the only one there to comfort her after something so traumatic. I love the idea that he thought to bring her to a place that was special to him, hoping to find her comfort. Then I’m guessing she wanted some alone time and he left her to go get the others.

I think it’s very sweet, to think about that time they spent together and what they talked about ❤️

#atla #zutara #zuko #katara #avatar the last airbender #meta #ask #ember island #the southern raiders

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seheartz · 2 months

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southern raiders zuko my beloved

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allnewalldifferentwildspider · 5 months

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Katara: "I knew you wouldn't understand."

She fucking knew that Aang wouldn't be on her side in The Southern Raiders. How telling is that one line? That not only does Aang not understand Katara, but she knows that he doesn't.

If we would have seen Katara's side of kataang we would have seen a very different story than, "durr water tribe girl purty."

#zutara #anti kataang #anti bryke #the southern raiders

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rubydart · 4 months

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Remember all your slaughters, And remember some had daughters. Your time's up, I am payday, And I suggest you quickly say...

Animated Katara fanart set to part of Morgan Clae's "Katara's Villain Song" (check out her tiktok for the full song) ID: Sad and vengeful Katara from the episode "The Southern Raiders", a wall of wavering water behind her from the dome she created, as raindrops float in the air as she potentially prepares to end the life of her mother's killer.

#animatic #fanart #atla #avatar the last airbender #katara #morgan clae #I'm on a journey to learn After Effects #the southern raiders

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sokkastyles · 5 months

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When people act like Katara bloodbending the captain of the southern raiders was an example of her being out of control...like first of all she stopped herself on her own thank you very much. But second, the way the show and some parts of the fandom talk about bloodbending like it's this horrible violation should definitely be examined.

Like, oh, the captain of a unit specifically designed to murder indigenous people and destroy their culture experienced for two seconds a fraction of the disempowerment that he'd visited upon others? How terrible.

Like, the idea that bloodbending was invented by someone who'd had everything taken from them is literally the point. To act like this makes Katara the same as the people who murdered her mother is so obtuse. Especially when, as I said, she chooses not to enact the same sort of violence on others. She is far kinder to the captain of the southern raiders than he deserves, and that is her strength, not her weakness.

To be honest, I think it makes some people uncomfortable not that she bloodbent that guy but that she has the capability to. Because she stopped herself before it got to the point where she did anything that she might regret. But it's the fact that she could have done it that I think bothers people more. Not that Katara would actually murder anyone (because come on) but that she could. That she had the power to choose and was capable of making moral decisions despite having that power. Because so many people are so attached to the narrative that marginalized people, when given that power, will be utterly corrupted by it.

But that's not what Katara does. And no amount of anger or grief will make her less of the compassionate person she is.

#katara #the southern raiders #zutara #because we all know where the idea that katara can't control herself comes from #and it aint the zutara fandom

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theweeklydiscourse · 2 months

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My hottest ATLA take is that Katara was fully justified in responding to “She was my mother too!” with “Then you didn’t love her the way I did.”

Listen, I understand that it was harsh, but have we considered that maybe that harshness was called for in that context? Because Sokka wasn’t just saying that because it suddenly occurred to him, he was saying that to silence Katara and get her to back down. Also, Katara was right? She DID have a special relationship with their mother and we are shown many times how much that loss shaped her in a way that we aren’t with Sokka. When I hear Sokka try to relate to Katara’s experience, the implicit meaning feels less like “I understand how you feel” and more like “I understand how you feel but I don’t want revenge, so you shouldn’t either.”

I just get so peeved when I see people acting like Katara is the epitome of callousness for responding to Sokka this way. Also, just because Sokka went through the same loss of a parent as Katara doesn’t mean he gets to dictate how she grieves, and the same goes for Aang. People will lambast Katara for this, but I’ll always defend her in this moment because in my mind, she only told the truth.

#avatar the last airbender #atla #katara #sokka #the southern raiders #atla fandom #aang critical #pro katara

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parkiebearr · 1 year

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southern raiders zutara was so peak

(click for better quality)

#zutara #zutara fanart #zuko x katara #the southern raiders #southern raiders #zuko #zuko and katara #atla zuko #atla zutara #katara #atla katara #katara fanart #zuko fanart #prince zuko #avatar: the last airbender #avatar the last airbender #atla #atla fanart #a:tla

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