lucy, you're coming back to us too, right? to me?

Ruben Voted to change the party name because he knew it would piss kipperlilly off

vs

Fabian offered a truce and made up with his (LEGALLY AND FINANCIALLY RECOGNIZED) nemesis so his friend could go one a date without it being weird, Kristin didn’t even ask him to do it.

It’s not that the Ratgrinders don’t know eachother, they know eachother. They just don’t like these people they know so well.

The bad kids know eachother and like love the people they’ve gotten to know. They have allowed themselves to be changed by one another, to become better for eachother.

The ratgrinders will unprompted find ways to slight eachother, get some sort of advantage over their party members.

The Bad Kids don’t have to ask eachother to be caring. They would lower themselves so they don’t block the others from view.

They are not the same.

is this the adventure you were looking for

the thing is like. as an overwhelmed teenager who was just killed by a system that didn’t protect them properly and wants above all to live, yeah i can see pledging yourself to an unnameable rage god, like you should be angry your school just shipped you off to die alone in the mountains on your spring break.

that said, given gorgug, kristen, adaine, and riz have all died and not pledged themselves to a rage god, i simply know that adaine in particular will see this as simply a skill issue

Kalina: You will keep digging, digging, digging until your own hands are bleeding because the second you stop, you'll realise your dad is never coming home

Kittylitter Clerickiller: Gods, I wish that were me

Okay, I just need to get something out of the way when it comes to the Kipperlilly conversation nobody's brought up yet, which I think is insane. Almost all of The Bad Kids would be more powerful if they didn't have their tragedy porn tragic backstories.

First of all, this doesn't apply to Fig and Gorgug because if Fig wasn't Gorthalax's child she would be a lot like Kipperlilly and not the ruler of hell. I wouldn't say Gorgug has a tragic backstory, he's got a pretty normal growing up experience with ups and downs.

Let's start with her #1 nemesis, Riz Gukgak. She's so jealous that his dad was murdered and that gives him an advantage in the adventuring life. To be crude, no, it doesn't. What would give Riz an advantage in the adventuring life would be living with someone who has a direct contact to all the government's inner workings and conspiracies. Now that would be an advantage. That gives you connections and clues that no one else can get. This is not what happened. What happened was eating cereal with water for breakfast, what happened was not getting an opportunity at college, what happened was a 9 year old who stopped sleeping, what happened was not your secret agent dad giving you an advantage in the school conspiracy because he's dead. Otherwise he fucking would've.

And now Kipperlilly's new #1 nemesis, Kristen Applebees. She was ostracised from her religion for her sexuality, she achieved sainthood, and raised a dead god back to life. None of this would've happened if she hadn't been raised in The Harvestmen. No, it wouldn't, but what would have happened if Kristen had been straight? Disgusting thought, yes, I know, but let's talk about it. A Kristen who never left Helio behind would have so many more fucking advantages than the one with Cassandra has. If she had followed her birthright she would be the only chosen one of one of the world's most powerful gods. Sol is the biggest god in Spyre and Helio is his son. Helio does not have a chosen one anymore because Kristen left. It's not a title that's just given out, it could only have been Kristen. You know what's an advantage? Being the chosen one of one of the world's most powerful gods, being a god's spoken favourite, and deified by all of that god's followers. Now that would be an unfair advantage. You know what's not an advantage? Being homeless at 14 and being at the mercy of your ex-girlfriend's uncle for housing, dying and having absolutely no one there for you so you're only option to survive is to trust your own abilities enough to raise yourself from the dead, and failing school because of biased teachers.

And what of Adaine Abernant? The Elven Oracle? Her tragedy porn tragic backstory is surviving an abusive home. Now I just have to imagine that Adaine would have it a lot easier than most students, an incredible amount of unfair advantages, if her old money parents paid for every wizard whim she wanted, kept her diplomatic immunity so she could do literally anything she wanted without consequences, and gave her a direct contact into the heart of the Fallinell government. Now that is what I would call an insane amount of unfair advantage. I would be furious at this rich kid who's never had to work for anything myself. This is not even close to the case. She's barely passing classes because she can't afford the material you're required, she goes to the guidance counsellor for panic attacks, and she's being hunted by her home government. I'd say that's about every single thing in her life working against her having it easy.

Fabian Aramais Seacaster. He's complicated since he is very privileged already. He gets 5000 gold a month just for existing. He's the captain of the Owlbears because he killed the previous one. He lives alone in a mansion. Yeah, that's pretty privileged. His parents are also so severely fucked up that if they hadn't been filthy rich they would've been absolutely horrible for him. If he had parents who unconditionally supported him and stayed with him through everything, then we could talk about perhaps the most powerful person in Elmville. In Solace possibly. The most feared pirate in history who single-handedly dismantled a monarchy and fights against armies on his own is at your beck and call, does whatever you ask him to, and loves you more than anything. The greatest swordswoman in the world, that bested the most feared pirate in the world, the daughter of one of the most influential elven families and immortal will do anything you ask her, loves you to bits, and would cheat any rules for you. To have that would just be insane. You can argue that Fabian already has unfair advantages because of his social status and inheritance. This is true, but this is also true within his own adventuring party. Now his parents aren't helping him with anything and are determined that he reach his legendary status on his own. Otherwise talk about a fucking advantage.

All this to say is that if Kipperlilly got all of The Bad Kids tragedy porn like she wanted she wouldn't have been better, but she would've made them better. There is an adventuring party out there in the multiverse that has a secret agent at their disposal, the only chosen one of a Sol religion, Bill Seacaster and Hallariel Lomenelda unprompted in their corner, and a seer with unending resources and diplomatic immunity. These would've been people you start a platform about adventuring not being fair for everyone because of. The people you went against was a homeless kid, a kid with an anxiety disorder, a trust fund kid, and someone with PTSD.

I've seen your posts about Kipperlilly being wrong for her validation, but right in the fact that The Bad Kids have been given larger plots and mysteries because of their families and circumstances and I don’t want to fucking see another one. When you make that I want you to think about the adventuring party they would've been without their backstories. The insanely powerful and privileged adventuring party that almost happened. Their life got made worse, not easier because their life could have been so fucking easy. Kipperlilly can take all the tragedy porn she wants and then maybe realise that that's not what makes the adventurer. That the reason she's mad at The Bad Kids is the only reason she can even tangentially compete with them.

was a big day for me

Maybe the rage deal in the last episode wasn’t JUST “You live but have extreme amounts of rage.” What if they were offered their wildest dreams and the rage was a clause in like microfont bc to them the gifts of achieving their goals and living seems like a great deal especially for children. The rage pushes them to achieve a goal, the rat grinders are KIDS they arnt gonna have crazy outrageous dreams and ambition at 17 years old, I knew nothing when I was that age.

You have a crush on a girl for a couple years and want to catch her attention? Bam. Get more confidence, become buff, get noticed first the first time ever. Oisin was completely unrecognizable before but now after all this?

You hate another rogue so much you want to be better than him? Bam! Kipperlily finds the rogue teacher first AND signs up for the election assuming riz would be the one to do it bc why would Kristen Applebees want to be president? Which could be an event bigger fuel to KLCK’s fire.

You want to be a famous musician and you’re jealous of a bard in school who never goes to class but has what you don’t? Bam! Ruben copies her look and produce music when she’s on hiatus as well as getting signed by her label

Mary Anne’s is small and girly she was probably bullied and wanted to make it stop, so shes now indifferent, and strong enough to stand up for herself, she sees Gorgug on the first day of school get decked in the face jsut to grow into this strong guy and sees him as inspiration

Lucy was content with life, she loved her friends, loved her god and knew the rage wasn’t what she wanted to have to live with. The resurrection is supposed to help them feel fulfilled but she’d just be more unsatisfied with life if she took the offer. Lucy was happy with what she had, and had no further aspirations, she loved her god and 'stuck to her guns'

Buddy dawn a follower of helio, watches the chosen one of his church abandon everything, he’s sad and confused as to why she did what she did. He dies and is offered the chance to become the chosen one for an unnamed god, he’s scared, helio is missing, and if Kristin took an offer from a new god and was okay why wouldn’t he be?

The rat grinders were scared kids who needed a miracle, and one was offered CHILDREN WILL SCREAM FOR HELP UNTIL THEY ARE ARE OFFERED SANCTION, IT DOESN’T MATTER WHO THE SAVIOR IS

So the Rat Grinders are fractured. Even back in the beginning, they were fractured because they didn’t have a chance to grow closer. They took easy quests to just get it over with

Then they died, and got brought back. And they grew slightly closer, but they just didn’t grow as close as the Bad Kids. And I think that’s another reason why Kipperlilly feels so jealous. The Bad Kids have a bond, through thick and thin, death and life, no matter in what world or place they’d always find each other.

Kipperlily wants that. She wants to get along with her party like they do. She wants that trust, that “you’ll always have my back” but she doesn’t get that.

Ruben doesn’t like her, he voted for the name change because he saw upset it made her. Oisin and Ivy are the best friends in their group, closer to each other more then they to anyone else. Mary Ann doesn’t even speak to them, preferring to keep silent and do whatever she wants.

The only person that was on her side was Lucy, and Lucy stayed dead.

This new revelation that the rat grinders all died and were brought back by this cleric of the unnamed ankarna, and Yolanda and Lucy’s refusal was what kept them dead but also bound with that sigil, has got me thinking about the events of Yolanda and particularly Lucy’s deaths.

If the rat grinders (+ jace) died in the mountains of chaos, why was lucy’s body in the far haven woods? she also died after spring break, which means she came back from that adventure. There’s also the matter of someone trying to change her paperwork to reflect a new, unnamed divinity, who we now know is ankarna, who is still unnamed to the rat grinders.

I think the rat grinders did kill her, but maybe it wasn’t the first time she died. It’s pretty heavily implied that there was tpk in the mountains of chaos, and if that’s the case, perhaps she was brought back once under the promise of changing her divinity to ankarna, but shortly after realized she couldn’t give up the goddess who meant so much to her and her family, and so she had started the change paperwork but then reverted and the rat grinders confronted her and killed her, and bc she broke her deal to be a follower of ankarna she was branded with that sigil?

OR, maybe she did survive the mountains of chaos! Maybe kipperlilly tried to convince her to convert first with words alone, thinking that it would be like it always was where lucy would support her decisions. She gets the paperwork drawn up and everything. And then lucy refuses. And kipperlilly kills her, calling upon the cleric who brought her back to bring lucy back the same way, so that she would bend to her will by force, bc she couldn’t imagine lucy refusing life to honor her divinity, but she does. and her refusal traps her in her body, and she’s gone perhaps forever.

Maybe the honey is just for kipperlilly to forget. Maybe it’s why she can smile ruefully to kristen as she slits buddy’s throat and tries to force-convert another cleric.

I’m not saying that the rat grinders choosing to worship an angry deity is good or just or right. What I am saying is that they’re kids in high school who just died. And they’re scared and confused. I’m saying that in a brash moment of being alone in the dark, can you really blame them for taking a hand glowing in light, even if the light was red?

Kipperlily’s best friend was Lucy Frostblade and she feels betrayed that Lucy chose her god over coming back to life, coming back to Kipperlily.

Lucy abandoned her, and Kristen Applebees keeps coming back from the dead to live on with her party. She won’t leave them.

Kipperlily wants Kristen dead, maybe then the Bad Kids would understand what it is to feel alone.

Fire and Ice, Rage and Sorrow

are we still friends? by tyler, the creator // dimension 20: fantasy high junior year // i wanna be your girlfriend by girl in red // dimension 20: fantasy high junior year // i wanna be your girlfriend by girl in red // dimension 20: fantasy high junior year // jealousy, jealousy by olivia rodrigo // dimension 20: fantasy high junior year // not allowed by tv girl

People who are genuinely seething with rage over Kipperlilly Copperkettle and trying to start discourse about why she’s the most evil character to ever exist are so funny. That’s literally Kipperlilly Copperkettle behavior.

bold that kristen suggested letting the ratgrinders autofail, on brand that first gorgug “keep going” thistlespring and then truly all the rest of them in synch say “we should revivify” even though they are all actively petty and hate the people involved. just saying but the bad kids are so good

Would like to remind dimension 20 tumblr that both The Rat Grinders and The Bad Kids are... children, and I think it's important that in your discourse, maybe look at things from an angle of child development.