#takes place in s8 btw
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wrote another short for @shepscapades ethubs dbhc au!! highly recommend reading her comic (and looking at her AMAZING art) before reading!
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“Bdubs.”
“Yes, my love?”
Etho smiled.
“I have a theory.”
Bdubs looked up at Etho from his place on the dirt, already pulling off his gardening gloves.
“A theory? What, you a scientist or something?” he snickered. Etho offered him a hand to get to his feet, and he took it.
“If I’m a scientist, I’m not a very good one,” he chuckled. “But I guess I’m just curious. You wanna test it out with me?”
They had been more than a human and his android friend for a while now, so Etho had taken to his own head to do a bit of… personal research. He wanted to show more affection in the way humans did, just to show Bdubs how much he cared, and he’d found some, confusing but interesting results. After looking into it further and diving deep into some sketchy forums, he was pretty sure this would work.
Bdubs rose an eyebrow, frowning.
“With you?” He narrowed his eyes, crossing his arms over his chest. “This isn’t something… weird, is it? Because that’s the vibe I’m getting here!”
Etho rose an eyebrow.
“Weird? How so?”
“Like- Like, I dunno! It seems like you’re propositioning me for somethin’!”
“Is that what you think of me? Wow, Bdubs-”
“No, no no! Don’t you twist my words-” Bdubs huffed, then stamped his foot in the dirt. “Gah! You always do this! Seriously, they make you things way too smart-” He pinched his brows. “Nevermind. You can’t just ask me to test something with you while looking at me like- Like that! It’s weird, and you’re making Bdubs’ mind go to places Bdubs’ mind shouldn’t!”
Etho blinked.
“Looking at you like what?” He wasn’t making a face, was he? Bdubs couldn’t even see half of his face! There was no way he could tell what he was thinking just by looking at his eyes-
“Nevermind! Let’s just-” Bdubs waved a hand and turned, “-go do whatever it is you want me to. Make this quick, though – I’ve got moss to get back to!”
“Your moss will be just fine, don’t worry,” Etho smiled, taking Bdubs’ hand to lead him back to the house.
They got a few feet further before Bdubs grumbled, “I can walk myself, y’know,” but he didn’t let go.
Etho led him inside and shut the door. He let Bdubs set his things down and get comfortable, watching him quietly. Eventually, Bdubs stopped trotting around, absentmindedly mumbling to himself, and stood in front of Etho again with his hands on his hips. He narrowed his eyes again.
"What's this experiment then, huh? You gonna strap me to a table and probe me or something?"
"If that's what you want, then-"
"No! Don't finish that sentence! I don't want that at all!"
Etho laughed, "Really? Are you-"
"Yes I'm sure!" Bdubs poked him in the chest. "Just get on with it!"
Etho stepped closer to Bdubs, studying him for a moment. He noted that his body temperature had risen, his face subtly flushed, but didn't think much of it. He was just outside working all day, after all. It only made sense.
"Close your eyes."
Bdubs frowned.
"What, are you gonna rob me or something? You know I've got nothin' worth robbing!" He crossed his arms over his chest, moss shedding from his sleeves with the movement. Etho made a note to buy a lint roller later.
"I know. I carry your things for you,” he deadpanned, earning some more disgruntled noises from Bdubs.
“Ugh, fine! I guess I’ll do it,” he huffed and turned his nose up. He squeezed his eyes shut, and Etho watched him carefully. He waited, just a few seconds, and Bdubs peeked just one eye open.
“Liar,” he teased, and Bdubs threw his arms up.
“You didn’t do anything! You’re tellin’ me to close my eyes and then not doing anything, how am I not gonna look?! You could be stealing my stuff!”
“What stuff?”
“Oh you-” Bdubs snapped his mouth shut, cutting himself off, then turned. He walked a little circle before planting himself right back in the same spot, reassuming his arms-crossed stance. “Fine, I’ll actually close my eyes this time. Happy?”
Etho watched him shut his eyes a second time and smiled, “Very.”
He waited another moment and, when Bdubs didn’t open his eyes again, he stepped closer.
Careful, he thought. It is a delicate process for humans to get to this step in their relationships. I cannot mess this up.
He brought his hand up to gently grace Bdubs’ cheek, fingers brushing warm skin. He caught the sharp inhale from the other, and he hesitated.
“Is this alright?”
Bdubs just nodded, his jaw taught and shoulders tense. Etho worried he’d overstepped.
“I need verbal confirmation.” He didn’t, but he wanted it.
“Yes- I said make this quick, didn’t I?”
Etho hummed, “Yes, you can’t leave your moss waiting.”
His fingers slid further back, his palm cupping Bdubs’ face. He was warm to the touch, and for a moment Etho worried he was developing a fever when he remembered that this was normal in this situation. He dipped his hand down to trace Bdubs’ jaw, pausing as he felt the pulse pick up beneath his touch.
120 BPM, he measured. Interesting.
He pressed his palm to Bdubs’ skin, cupping his cheek. He felt him shift his weight, eyes catching the way he moved his foot over the floor, his hand slipping from Bdubs’ face as he moved away.
“Hold still for me,” Etho instructed. He couldn’t do this properly if Bdubs continued to squirm.
“I am!”
“You’re not, though.”
Bdubs huffed through his nose, then promptly stopped his fidgeting.
“Thank you,” Etho hummed softly. He swiped his thumb over Bdubs’ skin, and realized he was just stalling. He knew why; Bdubs was human, and he wasn’t. As much research as he’d done couldn’t equal natural ability – instinct. No matter how hard he tried, he could never quite understand fully.
But this could be the first step to trying, and he knew trying was better than nothing. He couldn’t mess this up; he had to take it slow.
Unluckily for him, Bdubs happened to be one of the most impatient people on earth.
“Is this the theory? Are you reading my mind or something? I didn’t give you permission to read my mind – you don’t wanna know what goes on in there!” he rambled. “Not that it’s anything bad, I just don’t think you could handle it. Bdubs’ mind is powerful, you know.”
Etho laughed.
“Shhh. I’m sure it is, but you know I can’t read minds. We’ve been over this before.”
“I know, but you could be lyin’ to me! You’ve done it before-”
“Not on purpose.”
“-and you wouldn’t hesitate to do it again!”
Etho was quickly realizing that if he wanted Bdubs to be quiet, he’d have to make him. He leaned in closer, their faces inches apart. He used his free hand to pull down his mask.
“Bdubs.”
He watched the other’s mouth stop before he said another word, shutting for a moment before he spoke.
“What? What is it? Do I have something on my face?”
Etho was quiet for a moment, then remembered something he’d found in his research. Perfect. He smirked.
“You don’t, and that’s the problem.”
He closed the distance between their lips finally, ignoring the warning flashing at the edge of his vision. He could hear the thirium rushing through his body; he could almost feel Bdubs’ lips against his. Almost.
Their kiss was short, though, because Bdubs quickly shoved him away to an arm’s length, hands grabbing Etho’s shoulders in what could only be bewilderment. His eyes were wide, his mouth was open, and his face was flushed bright red.
“What the hell are you doing?! Why- What-” he stumbled over his words, barely able to form a sentence. “You’re- You just kissed me! Why?! Why would you do that?!”
Etho blinked. He drew his hand back.
“Is that… Is kissing not, okay? I thought-”
“I don’t care what you thought! Why would you do that?! You’re- You’re-” Bdubs stuttered, hands not leaving Etho’s shoulders. Etho dreaded the words he was stuck on, his chest aching already. He wished it was just his thirium pump acting up.
“I’m… not human. I know.” He finished the sentence for him, eyes cast to the ground. “I read that it’s something you do when you want to show affection for someone. I can’t really, you know, do that in the way I would, uh, as an android, with you.” He looked up again, putting a hand over Bdubs’ as he met his eyes. “I overstepped, I’m sorry.”
Bdubs just stared at him, blank-faced. Etho searched his features, trying to find any hint that his apology had been accepted, but Bdubs only blinked.
Then, he laughed.
“Whaat? What are you talking about?” He dropped his hands from Etho’s shoulders. “I’m not mad! I just- I don’t get where all this is comin’ from! I mean, first off, it’s weird kissin’ you- Not in a bad way! Just- I don’t think you were made for that. Your lips are all weird and rubbery and-”
Etho sighed in relief, hanging his head. He put a hand on Bdubs’ shoulder, balancing himself as he laughed loud. Bdubs stopped rambling and frowned.
“What? What’s so funny? Why are you laughing?”
Etho just shook his head, chuckling.
“I’m just so relieved!" he gasped, though he didn't even need the air. "I thought you hated me for a second!"
"I couldn't hate you! If I hated you, you would'a been gone a long time ago, I'll tell you that much." He turned his nose up, then gave Etho a quizzical look. "I just don't get it. You can't even feel any of- well, that! Why kiss me if you're gettin' nothing outta it? It doesn't make any sense!"
Etho's laughter died off, but he let his hand linger on Bdubs' shoulder. He processed the question for a moment, then looked the other in his eyes again.
"I do feel it, though. I'm not supposed to, but I do."
Bdubs rose an eyebrow. He stepped just a pace closer.
"Really? How?" He tilted his head just a few degrees to the right, the action catching Etho's eyes easily. He stared for a moment, fondness warming a smile on his face, before he answered.
"This." He pointed to the damage on the left of his face, touching the part closest to his lips. "It's not a lot, but since I never got it repaired, I have touch sensations here."
Bdubs nodded, hand on his chin as he hummed and thought for a moment. Etho dropped his hand from his shoulder.
"Really? So…" He stepped closer. Etho took the cue, leaning down so they were eye level. "So if I kissed you here, you'd feel it more?"
He put a hand up, just brushing the damaged area. Etho felt it, the warmth of Bdubs' skin flooding his face.
It was… different. Not weird. Just different.
"Yes," he breathed, afraid to move too much.
A warning flashed, "Thirium Pump Irregularity Detected."
Shut up.
Bdubs grinned. His hand pulled Etho's face in closer. Their lips brushed.
"I don't need 'verbal confirmation' for this, do I?"
Etho smiled, "No, you don't."
#dbhc au#ethubs#hermitshipping#shep ur au is making me insane#so im going to make everyone else insane by writing for it#mwah <3#there will be a continuation to this btw#hermitcraft fic#takes place in s8 btw#if u notice a detail yes its on purpose
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🌊 Aish hairstyles 🌊
Literally oh my fucking god the designers can't think of more than three fucking hairstyles for Aisha, if I never see her with twin puffs again it will be too soon. Put her in a unique fucking hairstyle you assholes. This anger at the complete lack of interesting hair for Aisha is what sparked me to do this series in the first place. Just so I can show how fucking cool her hair could be if they weren't fucking cowards about it. Unsurprisingly this one took me the longest, with all the braids I had to line and color (tho it didn't take as much time as expected), but it was a lot of fun to do. I was easily the most excited to this one for obvious reasons. She looks great. I went a little ham on the gold jewelry but Aisha deserves it ok?? Her hairstyles in the show are so dull, she needs some fun
Side note, Aisha has the second longest hair out of the Winx, longest naturally, but it isn't visible due to how coily Aisha's hair is. My hair goes from barely toucing my shoulders to below my sternum, and my hair is curly as where I draw it Aisha's the 4 range. So yeah, her hair gets like at least 6 inches when straighten, going all the way to her butt. I also challenged myself to style her edges differently with every drawing djsjs which you can probably tell
Anyways on to the individual styles
Classic Aisha: this is the hairstyle I've started to usually draw Aisha in. Sporty and practical meet fun and feminine! I also gave her a nose piercing bc she, Musa, and Tecna have the vibes, and to fit the slight vibe of Andros. Aisha's hair in canon usually looks like it's on the low side of curly, and the reason why is made p clear by the miss magix ep and s8/WOW, so I decided to give her tight coily hair. Btw yeah that's her s2 camping outfit
Twists Aisha: this was my first foray into drawing this hairstyle, I usually draw dreads and box braids in this area, so it doesn't look super good but hey I tried jdnsjs. I wanted to stylized them so I'd didn't spend years trying to finish them, and you can visibly see me give up on that with the next drawing, but I think if I were doing a comic or quick doodles this is what I would go with. Anyways, I did this one because it really makes me think of Aisha athletic nature. Idk they just look super athletic to me, and I gave her a little extra ponytail for the fashion of it. Sporty chic
Mermaid-y: When I first drew these braids with the flat bottoms, they kinda looked like Mermaid tails to me?? So my brain was like, Aisha in her mermaid era <33. So my heart is set on her having this hair during s5, mermaid season, mermaid hair. It's literally perfect. Also I thought this top was super cute. This is where I really went overboard with the gold, but she's in her mermaid era, princess, guardian fairy, and dame. She can have a little (lottle) gold, as a treat. She deserves it, she's been though a lot lately with her family and Nabu being in a COMA. Some fun hair is good for the soul
Date night: light rage. They put Aisha's hair into pigtails for every causal event that happens and it inches across my last nerve like you wouldn't believe. Much like how that uniform outfit ruined one of Musa's hairstyles, pigtails feel ruined for Aisha, but making the. Apart of a braid really lessoned the blow. Half of me wishes I did a head wrap instead, but I can't just not include them. The outfit is super cute tho. She's going on a date!!! Yess!!! So pretty. I'm so happy with her earrings and dress. She and Nabu are gonna go have a picnic together, it's gonna be great
Box braids: I just got my braids taken out this Friday, which was fun (it hurt a lot, especially taking the small ones out ;-;) and I think it's a really good hairstyle for Aisha. I used to think that they'd be super impractical due to being so long, but because they're so heavy they're not actually annoying to deal with at all. They don't move all that much and they don't really get in the way. These would work perfectly for Aisha. Giving her the long hair, and the practicality. Absolute win! Of course I had to go for her outfit from her date with Musa. These kinds of braids always make me think someone has an important event coming up or they're trying to look cute, and a first date is a perfect occasion. I had so much fun with the earrings and braid decorations
Work out: I wanted to go for something simple, less fancy, and that doesn't require braiding, for of her hairstyles to just like her hair be itself and vibe. Here it is in a classic half up half down look, completely unbraided and vibing. Outfit slightly inspired by Serena Williams's entire aesthetic, including the headband. I didn't wanna put her hair over her shoulders, which admittedly looks a little weird but I wanted the high low part to be clear fjsjdnd
Poodle puffs: Personally I think Poodle puffs are really hard to styles, because it's hard to get the size of the puffs right without going too far in either direction. I think I got it right here? I think four is a good number of puffs. This is probably one of my favorite looks, mostly because of how warm and royal it looks. I'm a sucker for shiney jewelry and warm colors. I think this one came out especially well, I love the earrings, and the dress looks really good! I was worried it was gonna look silly but thankfully it doesn't
Bantu knots: She just looks gorgeous here. It adds so much to her orginal red carpet energy. Her hair is now all done up and fancy. Her nose ring also adds to the energy. I really like the earring, despite how lopsided it is lol, but I do wonder if it was a little too much for such a elegant outfit? Idk. Either way I didn't do anything to this look because I love it and she looks amazing. Not thoughts, head empty, bantu knots pretty
Princess Aisha: Hehe this one is probably my favorite out of all the hair. Not the outfit top XD. I don't like poofy European dresses rip. I got to go as fancy as I want!! I feel like Aisha usually tries to stay away from super fancy and complicated one event only hairstyles (which is why she usually goes for protective hairstyles she can wear for a while with low maintenance before needing to change it), but she's making a formal appreances, which means I can loop a gem into her hair. I also got to put big gems on her outfit and earrings which was super fun. This perticualr hairstyle always looked super royal to me and I had to include some proper beads on the look too. They match the gem she's wearing. Extra royal look. Her headgear as a child did something similar, but now that she's older she can just get proper braids put that do what the head gear was doing but better. Also can you tell that I was worried about getting too close to the edge of the page XD
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Actually in canon the story is that the ship known as H3RM1TCR4FT crashed, and Xisuma was the only survivor. He wants to find out what happened so he goes through the Solar System to get answers. This takes place right after s8 so..! Currently Xisuma has the closest connection with Bdubs as they have been going through the Solar System together ^^ (the people in the Solar system aren't the same as those that were on the ship except Ren btw!! They don't know Xisuma before this)
If the planets didn't know what tickling was originally, Xisuma 100% introduced it to them and they thought it was really fun. Maybe it started with Bdubs and then it became a chain where Bdubs showed Impulse and Etho, then Impulse showed Skizz, and Skizz showed Tango, and so on. The only person I think that still might not know what tickling is is Joel because canonically he isolates himself to protect himself
- 💫
Ooooooh okay I see I see so they don’t actually fully know each other right away in this. That’s pretty cool! I’ve got a total hyperfixation on Etho so any content with him is wonderful hahah. I’m super tempted to draw some stuff of Lee!Etho since there is literally absolutely zero, none, nothing, no content of Lee!Etho besides what I’ve posted haha. So there needs to be more 😂😂
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hi AJ! rewatch anon here. I’m finally starting S8 and I noticed that during 8.01 they show us the crime scene score board at the lab and there’s Nick, Warrick, Catherine, Sara and some Joe again. Anyway it just got my attention that while the others had a longer list Sara only had 1 item on her column. Do you have any idea about that? Hope you’re having a great week btw! 🤍
hi, rewatch anon!
hope you're having a good week, too!
so fun fact: after the events of episode 01x02 "cool change," that scoreboard remains the same throughout the entirety of the grissom era of the show. after nick and warrick get their hundredth solves and sara joins the team, none of the cases listed on the board ever change and none of them are ever again slapped with a fresh "solved" marker.
ergo, the reason why sara has just one case in her column is because the last time anybody updated that board, she was literally brand new to the lab and had yet to build up a caseload.
as for the mystery of "joe," i have never been able to find any reliable "word of god" information about who he may be (if anyone).
possible theories regarding "joe's" identity:
maybe brass's character name was originally "joe;"
maybe "joe" is a catchall category representing the police department;
maybe "joe" is a former member of the team who retired, quit, or got fired not too long before the events of the pilot take place. if so, then holly gribbs may have specifically been hired as his replacement;
maybe "joe" is a member of the day or swing shift (though, in that case, why his name would appear on team graveyard's scoreboard, i don't know);
in s1, and especially early on, there were occasionally other lab personnel who were present in the background at team graveyard crime scenes—like, for instance, the ones sara threatens in episode 01x03 "crate n' burial"—and maybe one of them is supposedly "joe" (though, again, why he would make it up on the board when none of the other techs or cadets do, i can't say).
why grissom doesn't get a column on the scoreboard, i also can't say.
honestly, i think the props department probably didn't expect anyone to pay too much attention to the board in episodes where it doesn't receive direct in-story focus, meaning there may not be answers to a lot of these questions at all. it's probably a "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain" kind of deal.
sorry i can't offer more information!
thanks for the question! please feel welcome to send another any time.
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After everything I’ve seen and read on tumblr, I’m scared to watch s8 of That 70s show. I know the writers completely destroyed all the characters. Fez is already an annoying character in s4, and he’s becoming a sexist jerk.
Do I even bother watching the 8th season?
Iirc, I remember only watching the few eps and then the last couple. It definitely qualifies under the "don't bother suffering through it" category (as is T9S). A glimpse is the most I can bother taking. Don't bother, I'll give you the highlights.
The highlights:
-Hyde marries a stripper, Sam. She is devoid of any personality, and serves as an object to pull Jackie and Hyde apart. He's dug himself a grave, and he chooses to lie in it (ugh).
-It turns out that Sam was already married, so the marriage wasn't valid, anyway.
-They try really freaking hard to integrate Sam and Randy into the fold, but it fails miserably.
-Donna is an OOC shell (as is everyone else), and befriends Sam and pushes Jackie away, and calls her a bitch at one point.
-Kelso randomly proposes to Jackie (which was a jumping-off point T9S could've gone with, but since Jay is sixteen, they went with the stupid, late season 4 AU route). Jackie says no, obviously, and Kelso moves to Chicago to be closer to Brooke and Betsy. He becomes a security guard at the Playboy mansion, which meh.
-Eric breaks up with Donna via a letter, and Donna starts dating Randy. My headcanon is that Eric wants her to stop waiting for him and that he heard how she was treating Jackie (like shit), so he temporarily broke it off. Hoping for her to get her shit together, but that didn't happen (until the very end).
-Randy is an Eric-y character with a bit of Kelso (he loves dogs, and is somewhat superficial). He's nothing special; I don't hate him, other than for what he represents. He's just a meh character, to me.
-Everyone treats Jackie like shit, including Fez, her eventual lover. Fez says she's ugly on the inside and the outside, and Jackie says he's wrong about the outside part (wtf?).
-Jackie works as an assistant for Christine St George, the host of What's Up Wisconsin, who is a heartless piece of shit that Jackie readily calls out. It's the only salvageable storyline, IMO, until they devolve it and make Jackie sweep hair at Fez's salon. To "humble" her, which wtf?
-Fez has turned into a playboy, and is even more cringe-y than before. Jackie and Fez now live together, since Kelso has moved to Chicago.
-Hyde calls Jackie "Point Place's sluttiest slut," and everyone shits on her for dating almost all the guys from the OG gang. Hyde also pushes her into a creek at one point.
-Jackie and Fez are incredibly forced, and Jackie comes to the conclusion that Fez is her soulmate via a superficial, desperate list, which Donna affirms. Hyde vaguely gives them his blessing, but it's clear that it's hollow as hell.
-Jackie and Fez kiss in the finale, on top of the water tower. Jackie struggles to be intimate with him, and Fez paints over Jackie's name in "Jackie and Michael," and it's now "Fez and Michael." Extra note, the Jackie and Michael thing on the water tower seems to be fully intact in T9S (without any edits, to even fix it), so it's further proof that T9S isn't canon.
-Hyde has a nasty pornstache at the end of the season, and Kitty calls him her "second son." Kitty has a new hairstyle, too. The Red and Kitty stuff is better than the stuff in seasons 6 and 7, but like T9S, the decent Red and Kitty stuff can't save season 8.
-Eric and Donna, seemingly, get back together on New Year's Eve. Well, kind of, since they have some shit to work through. Donna's headed off to college in Madison, and Eric came home from Africa early (I explain why in my verse, btw).
The end. It's a vaguely fixable mess, unlike T9S. Which is an unfixable mess, imo.
#that 70s show#that 90s show#eric and donna#jackie and fez#jackie and kelso#jackie and hyde#kelso and brooke#my essays#i answer a thing
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I thought I would share what I was theorising/expecting for ninjago crystallised.
so....
This is mainly Garmadon centric as I don't really tend to think about anyone more than him (ik it's weird but hang with me). So of course I saw the set images for the Crystallised and I went wild for the Samuri set because GARMADON
Of course in that set he has his new oni face and two arms and outfit but for a while I was thinking: It looks abit like an oni mask, could it be he is now human?
In all honesty I didn't truly like that idea as it would be too sudden..
Another was (because the overlord/crystal king had four arms in his set) that the overlord took his arms, like absorbed his heritage and made himself capable of using the four weapons of cration to corrupt the balance.
I actually belive I saw someone post something about that theory so it isn't mine, I'm not that smart but I did like to image how that would've played out.
I can image a situation (not taking place in any final battle type shit btw) where the overlord kinda attack the huge billboards of ninjago (Kinda how harumi did in s8 to showcase Lloyd vs Garm) and he was threatening the ninja about the will find them while they watched.
The crystal king then comments on how he "wants one last thing" before he somehow drains Garmadon, his form now unable to sustain itself and so changes so he onlys has 2 arms (I want to add how before all this he still had 4 arms and was still in Two Moon Village from the comics beacse thats what i expected) and so he collapses and blah blah.
And yes, Lloyd had his closure with his oni form, finding peace on his form and understanding there was nothing wrong with it.
And No, I would have kept all his previous developments in his character, he and Garmadon would of had one argumen but the rest of the time he was willing to give his father one last chance with fair warning.
I would like to add that I love how Vinny and Garm were roommates so when I think about this au I created from all previous assumptions I do make it so he only visited Two Moon Village often :]
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The Awake/Asleep Theme (and How it Applies to the CRM)
Okay, this is an epiphany I had thanks to 11x06. All of us theorists noticed how much emphasis they put on the fact that Connie had not slept, and that was a big part of why she was freaking out the entire episode.
At one point, Virgil even accuses her of hallucinating what she saw behind the wall because of lack of sleep. So, it crossed most of our minds that the creatures in the house might not be real, but might be a hallucination.
That, it turned out, was not the case. But mentioning it at all felt like a nod to the hallucination theme.
But when I re-watched the episode, I noticed something else. At the beginning, when Virgil is telling Connie she needs to sleep, and she keeps shaking her head, he says the word, “Rest.” All by itself.
It reminded me of something Maggie said to Daryl in 5x10, Them. After she wakes up and the two of them talk about Beth, and he gives her the MUSIC BOX, she says, “it’s okay to rest now.” It makes sense in the context of the episode, since it seems he was awake, keeping watch while the others slept. She was just telling him that since she and others were awake now, he could get some sleep. But it’s just such a weird wording, you know? I always thought it must be symbolic of something, but I never knew exactly what.
So, we have this sleep/rest theme that ties Connie and Virgil (Beth and Daryl template) to Them, which was right after Coda, and literally minutes before the music box woke up.
The other thing that jumped out at me is when Caver said to Leah, “Shaw, wake up!” The way he said it just reminded me a lot of how Denise said it to Daryl and Rosita right before she was killed.
So, as I often do, I tried to step back and take a broader view of what the characters actually mean when they say stuff like that.
For Carver, when he said it to Leah in this episode, he basically means that she needs to wake up to the truth. She can’t see the truth (that Daryl is deceiving her) and she needs to stop being duped by him and allow herself to see the truth.
The way Denise used it was slightly different, but related. She was talking about how Daryl and Rosita weren’t even trying to deal with their issues. Basically, they weren’t really living, which is theme we heard from Beth at Grady. Kind of the equivalent of “sleeping through your life.”
And then I thought about the fact that we actually see Beth wake up at Grady. And as always, it makes sense in context because she was, you know, unconscious, so clearly she’d have to wake up at some point. But they just emphasized it SO much. Seeing her eyes flutter open. Seeing her slowly sit up and look around. I mean, how many times has TD posted those shots?
And that’s when it all clicked for me.
I said in the Matrix theory that the truth, what’s really going on, has to do with what TF has not recognized yet. It has to do with the CRM and what they’re doing that is negative, but most of TF (excluding Beth and Rick at this point) are still completely oblivious to it. So that is the “truth.” The truth that people need to wake up to.
So, thematically, being “awake” represents knowing or being able to see the truth. Being “asleep” represents being blissfully ignorant of the truth.
Think about how they used this theme in 11x06 with Connie and Virgil. Connie hasn’t slept. She’s refusing to sleep, which we all know is a bad thing. You have to take care of yourself or you’re gonna start hallucinating, which Connie kind of does here.
But because she refuses to sleep and goes to check the house again herself, she sees the creatures in the walls. She sees the danger. Danger Virgil doesn’t see. Because she’s awake. When she runs back down to tell him, we actually see Virgil SLEEPING. See what I mean?
So how do we interpret this in other cases. When I started thinking through these, they kinda blew my mind. Such great planning on the writers’ parts.
Beth at Grady:
With Beth, as we’ve already said, Grady is most likely tied to the CRM. I said in the Matrix theory that Rick and co should have awakened to the CRM and what was happening when they visited Grady, but they didn’t. They left and went back “into the Matrix” as it were, and back into blissful ignorance where that was concerned. I’m gonna come back to that in a minute.
The point is that we saw Beth waking up, because she was basically waking up in “Wonderland.” She was in a place where it was possible to see the truth for the first time. So, she was both literally and symbolically “waking up” to it.
When Maggie says to Daryl, “It’s okay to rest, now,” I think that’s the writers’ way of saying that they all went back to sleep, as it were. Back into the blissful ignorance of the Matrix, not understanding that Beth really lived or what the CRM was up to. She says it’s okay to rest, and he agrees, and they all “rest,” closing their eyes to the truth. Because it’s just easier to do that than to stay awake after the storm.
Now let’s look at Denise:
We immediately tied her death to Beth, because it was so similar to what happened at Grady. But that sequence indicated SO much more than that.
Denise was yelling at Daryl and Rosita about not being awake to their lives. And I’m not claiming Denise knew anything about the CRM. What was happening in her arc was its own thing, but thematically, yelling at them about not being awake could be seen as yelling at them about not understanding what’s really happening with the CRM. What’s really going on.
Think about what she said. She said they were both really good people, and they weren’t even “trying.” And literally the last words she spoke were, “and if you don’t wake up—” and then she was shot. In the eye. And died. On the TRAIN TRACKS. Right in front of Daryl. Just like Beth.
So, it’s almost the writers hinting that something about what happened with Beth should have woke them up to the truth. They need to wake up and see it, or they’re going to die.
And perhaps by extension, Daryl needs to wake up and see it or he’s never going to get Beth back. I mean, really think about that sequence. “If you don’t wake up—” Bam. Shot in the head.
Rick’s Old Man Coda:
Remember in S8, we kept seeing visions, which turned out to be Carl’s, of Rick waking up as an older man? Some things I want to point out here.
Rick is waking up in this sequence. It also has the vibrant color scheme that we often see in these dream-like scenes. I think the vibrant colors represent Wonderland, or the “truth” which means they represent the CRM or the world outside the one TF is currently aware of.
So, these “old man codas” as I liked to call them foreshadowed many things. They foreshadowed Carl’s death, the fact that we’d see Judith as an older child eventually, etc. But I also now understand that they represent Rick disappearing into the CRM. Thus, why he seems to be “waking up” in “wonderland.”
There are plenty of other symbols we could point to. The flowers, which are reminiscent of his hospital experience in ep 1, and thus also point toward Grady (tied to the CRM). The fact that the song, “Another One Rides the Bus” is playing in the background. That’s part of the yellow theme. Which applies to Rick in a big way, btw. I already talked about how we saw it during 7x12, which foreshadowed his death fake out.
But we also have this huge arc where Michonne, and of course Daryl, are looking for Rick along the river. But he’s not there. They’re looking in the wrong place. Yellow theme.
Grace in FTWD 6x12:
I won’t go into too many details about this, but we also saw this theme with Grace in Fear. She had a dream sequence that also employed these vibrant colors. And you could interpret this theme about 5 different ways in that episode. Parts of the dream had truth in them, which means she was seeing truth in the dream. Just a different truth than she thought.
Parts of the dream were also false, so she had to “wake up” to reality. And then things that happened near the end of the season around these events led a chunk of her group to connect directly with the CRM. Several of them were picked up by a black helicopter in the season finale. So, the awake/asleep theme was definitely being employed there.
And finally, that brings me to Leah:
We still think the vibrant and sometimes blurry colors of FM suggest a dream-like state. We’ve been trying to nail down the timeline and things just don’t add up. So at the very least, we still think some of this is being remembered wrong.
But I also think perhaps the reason for the vibrant colors is that Leah is Daryl’s Grady. In the sense that he’s just getting a tiny inkling of what’s going on, on the outside with the CRM, but really hasn’t put it all together, yet.
I think Leah is going to lead him, in a big way, to waking up to the truth of the CRM. I think that’s her entire function in the plot. And of course there’s all this back story and all the stuff with Maggie and the Reapers. Lots of complicated arcs going on. But Leah is how Daryl will finally “wake up” to the truth, which will lead him to Beth. And eventually Rick.
That’s all. Thoughts?
#beth greene#beth greene lives#beth is alive#beth is coming#td theory#td theories#team delusional#team defiance#beth is almost here#bethylforever
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‘read a room’
I have serious concerns for the social media generation, and how that affects the ‘writers room’ of the future, because when you read TV lines article about the Voight/Anna storyline and others, the comments just blow my mind.
The biggest one is the Voight/Anna chemistry and the likelihood of them having a romantic relationship 🙄
But the ongoing sl for our fave pairings😍
‘UpStead lack chemistry’
Or BurZek nation talking about Kim making Adam miserable, indecisive. Or Adam being such a hot head and a bit of a cowboy.
And Kevin Atwater and the lack of pivotal sl’s.
First up, S8 had some of the best LaRoyce episodes in it. The POC in Policing, the BLM movement…it’s what carried us from s7 into s8, and touched on something very raw and current in the real world AND more importantly, memorable.
As for BurZek. There is something deep there, always has been, but they started out so passionate, spontaneous, crossed relationship lines, have fallen in and out and experience something new and different and yet, find themselves back at each other’s door. They are each other’s person. But circumstance, time, empathy, trust, compromise, still creates chaos and struggle. But they have never not loved each other. They found Makayla together, they care for and love Makayla together. They are together where it matters for now. And in time, it will all fall into place. Some growth is still needed and raising a child will only push them more….
Then there’s UpStead. The anti’s really go there and it makes me love them even more. We know the history of L**stead. And if it was similar to any sl, it started not that much different to BurZek. But let’s face it, seasons 1-4 was really the Erin Lindsay show and we only got snippets of Halstead. (At this point I felt L**stead only happened to give SB more air time. Jay became more of an accessory than a character of substance and depth). It’s no surprise then, that s5 really saw, what we had been missing…
And now we’re here. S9 and Jay, the one is wife called a decent man, showing concern, that I believe comes from both he and Hailey. But still the anti’s looking for something, anything, and talk about the chemistry btw Halstead and Anna, which is just🙄. God people, get out more!! You can share banter, be flirty even, care, without wanting to jump someone. Even during the Camilla sl, the early days of UpStead, Jay looked at Hailey very differently, because he was changing being around her. And I still think there was a moment, when he looked at Hailey, that made him, flip on Camilla, in spite of the L word being thrown around. And we all saw how Hailey handled Camilla, so she was protective, from the get go.
What you don’t see is that the whole team have been watching over her. Haileys conversation with Jay, on how Toscano (not sure that’s right) keeps forgetting Anna’s name. In that same episode both Jay and Hailey were concerned for her and shared one of those eye conversations when Voight laid it out. I’m betting Jay and Hailey are on the same page with this one, because of the Roy sl. And they don’t want Anna’s blood on their hands if this goes sideways. Anna may be seen as an individual more, but she is a Mom and is doing this for her kid.
What if the cliffhanger, is UpStead vs Voight conflict. That this whole case falls heavily on Anna, but UpStead think it’s not safe and help her disappear or fake her being taking out….Home is many things and dysfunctional is just one of them. Imagine the fallout….
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so i’ve read your entire fanfic recs lists and thank you so much for making it!! it introduced me to some of my fave fics like I Think It’s A Real Waste by Jaded Angel and That’s My Baby by kezztip (not including your works of course because i love them all). but now i’m at a lost of what to read. do you have any current fics or fics you would add to your lists?
p.s. so excited RYLH is gonna be updated soon!!! i am seriously in love with that story that it’s my pick me up fic
I'm glad my fanfic recs post was useful to you!! I spent a lot of time making that and I love ALL the stories I recommended.
[do you have any current fics or fics you would add to your lists?] -- Oh hell yeah, a lot of new fics came out after I made that post, and I've found a few more old ones. I'll list them all below (this is going to be LONG):
Multichapters:
all that glitters by SparklingSoul (canon divergence s3):
After getting into some hot water, Jackie and Hyde find themselves thrust into an unlikely partnership-- a partnership where in the lines of morality quickly become blurred as they lead each other down a questionable path to cope with their less than ideal home lives.
This story is a WIP.
Y'ALL, please trust me and read this one, it's amazing. The first chapter was posted yesterday and I'm already addicted.
Rated T.
6k words, one chapter so far.
Pairings: Jackie/Hyde, background Fez/Kelso, and Eric/Donna.
Baby Blue by crimsinsky (s7 fix-it):
Zenmasters being Godparents.
This story is complete.
Rated T.
4k words, 5 chapters.
Pairings: Jackie/Hyde, Kelso/Brooke
Friend of the Devil by glittermila (AU):
An AU where Hyde's a girl, and falls for Jackie anyway.
Btw, everyone's gay in this story and I love it, lol.
This story is a WIP.
Rated T.
65k words, 26 chapters so far.
Pairings: Jackie/Hyde, Eric/Buddy, Eric/Donna, Fez/Kelso.
He Let Her Go by kezztip (canon divergence s7):
Jackie runs away to her wealthy grandmother in New York after the midseason 7 breakup. Will absence make Hyde's heart grow fonder? What happens when Jackie returns for a secret visit?
This story is complete.
Rated T.
17k words, 17 chapters.
Pairings: Jackie/Hyde
I Think I Was Blind Before I Met You by TeaTimeAllOverTown (AU):
He’s 14 and she’s 13 and he finds her crying outside the prison doors and, not that he would ever admit it, hearing her cry makes his skin itch.
This story is complete.
Rated T.
15k words, 2 chapters.
Pairings: Jackie/Hyde
Just Ask Santa by heatherlea75 (post s8, Christmas fic):
This is a two part Christmas story featuring JH from Cliches and Things They Say. Sometimes, adults should believe in Santa Claus, too.
This story is complete.
Rated T.
10k words, 3 chapters.
Pairings: Jackie/Hyde
Miracle by B_August (AU):
To Pam Burkhart, Jackie is the abnormal child that her husband dragged in during their vacation in Hawaii. To her peers, she's the smart and stuck-up princess that graces the school halls. To the Basement Gang, she's the annoying brat that infiltrated their ranks. To Jackie herself, she is a super powered freak who just wants to do her best. But to Jack Burkhart, Buddy Morgan, a pair of higher life forms, and those who she would later help, she is nothing short of a miracle.
This story is a WIP.
Rated T.
47k words, 33 chapters.
Pairings: Jackie/Hyde, Eric/Donna, Fez/Buddy
My Best Friend's Girl by the bohemian flow (AU):
What if Hyde had a crush on Jackie instead of Donna?
This story is a WIP.
Rated T.
2k words, one chapter so far.
Pairings: Jackie/Hyde, temporary Jackie/Kelso
perfect matches burn (and baby, so do we) by deartangerine (AU):
One year after their break-up, Jackie and Hyde have finally pieced themselves back together, on their own. Jackie's in school. Hyde's sober. But one fateful weekend stuck together at their best friends' wedding might be all it takes to tear them down again.
Or maybe, just maybe, to build something new.
Another fic where Hyde's genderbent, and it's great! I highly recommend reading the prequel, our fingers intertwined (just like our hearts).
This story is a WIP.
Rated M.
24k words, 9 chapters so far.
Pairings: Jackie/Hyde, Eric/Donna
Play With Fire by ShinyBo0ts0fLeather (s8 canon divergence):
After Hyde comes back from Las Vegas, Sam comes into everyone's life and thus ruining the very last chance he had with Jackie. Instead of the moping around, Jackie is now fueled with fire and a sense of determination to move on and make a life for herself as a strong, independent woman. Instead of turning their back on Jackie and siding with Hyde, Eric, Donna, Kelso, Fez and even Laurie remain loyal friends to Jackie. Hyde is completely broken, but isn't a complete asshole to Jackie. The gang doesn't turn their back on Hyde, but instead support him yet hold him responsible for his actions instead of sweeping it all under the rug. While Jackie is set on moving on, Hyde is set on getting Jackie back and changing his ways for both her and his sake. Whatever it takes.
Eric never left to Africa, and Kelso is in Chicago with Brooke, but is still around. Donna sticks to her feminist values like in the early seasons and is a better friend to Jackie. Jackie is close to the Forman's as well, and her relationship with her father will be prominent and better here as well. Overall positive with some angst.
This story is a WIP.
Rated M.
30k words, 15 chapters.
Pairings: Jackie/Hyde, Eric/Donna
Something Unexpected by crimsinsky (s1 canon divergence):
What if Jackie wasn’t quite so heartbroken over Kelso kissing Pam Macy?
This story is a WIP.
Rated T.
15k words, 11 chapters so far.
Pairings: Jackie/Hyde, Red/Kitty
Spirit In The Night by springsteenicious (s4/s5 canon divergence):
Jackie and Hyde are in the midst of a passionate- and secret- fling. When Kelso's sister lends the six of them her cabin by a lake for a few days, they have to be even more secretive. But secrecy proves to be a difficult thing to maintain, especially when they can't seem to get enough of each other's presence. (Inspired by the Bruce Springsteen song).
This story is funny as hell, and it's a WIP.
Rated T.
4k words, 2 chapters.
Pairings: Jackie/Hyde, Eric/Donna
Take The Money and Run! by MinaSeraphina (post s7):
This here's a story about Steven Hyde and Jackie Blue. Two young lovers with nothin' better to do...
Complete.
Rated M.
29k words, 12 chapters.
Pairings: Jackie/Hyde
The One That Wasn't Canon by samcaponi (AU):
Basically, this is an AU where Jackie never dated Kelso.
It's not set in a specific season but will take different aspects from each season.
This has to be one of the cutest stories I've ever read in my life.
This story is a WIP.
It doesn't have a rating.
11k words, 9 chapters.
Pairings: Jackie/Hyde, background Eric/Donna
Things Fall Apart by leoasc (s8 canon divergence):
On one night in a motel room in Chicago, Jackie and Hyde learn a valuable lesson about love and life: Things fall apart. People get hurt. Hearts get broken. Over the course of nine months and a series of events no one saw coming, they learn how true that really is.
Prepare yourself because your heart's going to be crushed, but the author guaranteed that they'll fix it so I'm trusting them.
This story is a WIP.
60k words, 9 chapters.
Pairings: Jackie/Hyde
Too Late by brokenrussiancrawl (s8 canon divergence):
Hyde was not stalking her. It was just, after months of not seeing or hearing from her, finally spotting her in a bar made him realize how much he truly missed her. The only problem is, the tiny brunette wants nothing to do with the gang...even more so him. But he couldn't stay away.
This is angsty. Very, very angsty. But it's great!
This story is a WIP.
Rated T, but the author said that might change later.
23k words, 5 chapters so far.
Pairings: Jackie/Hyde, Jackie/OC, background Eric/Donna
We're Not Broken, Just Bent by SparklingSoul (post s8):
When tragedy strikes and Jackie and Hyde are forced to live up to their godparent duties, they need to overcome their differences and work together. Along the way, they realize that maybe their relationship isn’t broken beyond repair after all...
This story is one of my favorites, I love it so much!! Please read it.
This story is complete.
Rated T.
67k words, 24 chapters.
Pairings: Jackie/Hyde, background Eric/Donna
When Did This Happen? by QueenBookBuff (post s8):
Hyde is stunned when he finds out Jackie and Eric no longer hate each other, and he finds he hates the idea of her having a soft place to land that is not him. What he hates even more is the idea that Eric is protecting Jackie from him.
Angsty and beautiful story, I'm loving it.
This story is a WIP.
Rated M.
46k words, 13 chapters so far.
Pairings: Jackie/Hyde
One-shots:
Anything For You, Doll by icanseeformiles (missing moment):
One-shot, takes place during season 5. Jackie is sick while staying overnight with Hyde in the basement, and Hyde has to take care of her. All fluff.
Rated T.
2k words.
Pairings: Jackie/Hyde
Five Years by johnnycakewasgolden (idk, it wasn't specified):
It's been five years. Fluffy fic. Sappiness. H/J.
Rated T.
1k words.
Pairings: Jackie/Hyde
He Cared by johnnycakewasgolden (missing moment):
After Hyde tells Kelso that he's a tool for trying to get out of Brooke's pregnancy. Hyde's thoughts drift to Jackie and everything between them.
Rated T.
1k words.
Pairings: Jackie/Hyde
Here I Go Again by Tandy (I think it's post s8 but I'm not sure):
Life had not turned out like Jackie had planned. She wasn't rich, she had no maid, no mansion, and no husband. (don't worry this is fluffy).
Rated T.
5k words.
Pairings: Jackie/Hyde
I'll Have To Say I Love You In A Song by springsteenicious (s5 canon divergence):
"Every time the time was right all the words just came out wrong, so I'll have to say I love you in a song..."
Hyde isn't sure how to tell Jackie he loves her. Then he finds the perfect way, and it's a song sung by Jim Croce.
Rated G.
1k words.
Pairings: Jackie/Hyde
I LOVE YOU by PrettyinPink33 (I think it's s5 canon divergence but I'm not sure):
"Why can't you say it? It's three words. Eight letters! Why can't you say it?" Hyde doesn't want to use the L-word. A sweet little fluffy J/H oneshot
Rated T.
839 words.
Pairings: Jackie/Hyde
is this the place that i've been dreaming of? by SparklingSoul (missing moment):
“I’m mostly over it now,” she continues, “but sometimes I can’t help but worry about that same thing with any guy. So tell me, would you break up with me, too?”
Jackie has some leftover relationship insecurities from when she dated Kelso and Hyde is there to remind her that she doesn't have to worry anymore.
Rated T.
1k words.
Pairings: Jackie/Hyde
It's a Hyde Thing by not.so.tragically (AU canon divergence):
It became a Hyde thing. She had part in one of his Hyde things, and for some reason, he was okay with it.
Rated T.
2k words.
Pairings: Jackie/Hyde
Magic Man by ShanghaiLily (missing moment):
Just a sexy little 'missing scene' one-shot that takes place after Donna returns from California and she and Eric catch Jackie & Hyde together on the couch but before Kelso finds out about the affair. After a naughty afternoon together, they admit to themselves & each other they don't want to break up.
Rated M. Very M.
2k words.
Pairings: Jackie/Hyde
Nice To Meet You by crimsinsky (AU):
What If Jackie and Hyde met without Jackie and Kelso ever dating?
A loudmouth girl meets a troublemaking knight in shining armor.
Rated T.
2k words.
Pairings: Jackie/Hyde
Now you're looking pretty in a hotel bar by MissRaichyl (post s8):
Hyde and Jackie meet after a long time apart and find comfort in each other that they thought was long gone.
Rated M.
2k words.
Pairings: Jackie/Hyde
Old and Grey by zpplnchick (post s8):
After a busy day of shopping, Jackie and Hyde make one last purchase: new boots. Post-finale. Told from a 3rd-party perspective.
Rated T.
1k words.
Pairings: Jackie/Hyde
One Special Morning by marirable (missing moment):
If anyone caught him at this hour and in this situation, they would be inevitably buried in the Formans' backyard to maintain his burnout image and not lead it towards the worst. Towards the gang thinking that Hyde got himself a heart.
Rated K.
643 words.
Pairings: Jackie/Hyde
She's a Rainbow by trobedisons (AU? idk):
"she comes in colors everywhere, she combs her hair, she's like a rainbow."
as with everything, jackie is the opposite. they're polar opposites. the rich girl; the bad boy. archetypes that should clash, but they attract. it was as if his calloused hands were crafted to mold into the curve of her hips.
hyde notices jackie’s affinity for rainbow sweaters. hyde also notices he likes jackie. so what happens when she needs a date?
Rated T.
1k words.
Pairings: Jackie/Hyde
The Big Toy by JoyfulHeartEO (missing moment?):
When Jackie and Hyde get bored at the Drive in with their friends...where will they go? And what will they do? ;D Read and find out what happens.
Rated M because this has a lot of sex, but it's well written and funny.
3k words.
Pairings: Jackie/Hyde
Where Did You Sleep Last Night by QueenBookBuff (s8 canon divergence):
Would a married Jackie ever break her vow to be faithful?
I love ALL of QBB's stories, but this one has a special place in my heart, I don't know why.
Rated T.
This work is part of a series, so there's a sequel.
4k words.
Pairings: Jackie/Hyde, Jackie/Kelso
Why Didn't You Tell Anyone? by zpplnchick (missing moment):
The gang talks about their first kiss, and a surprising revelation is revealed… Set shortly after 4x20.
Rated K+.
6k words.
Pairings: Jackie/Hyde
You Give Me Fever by crimsinsky (missing moment):
Jackie is sick, or is she? She claims she is, but Kelso says he saw her not too long ago. Who is Hyde supposed to believe, and what does he do about it?
Rated G.
5k worrds.
Pairings: Jackie/Hyde
1983 by antrazi (post s8? idk):
Somebody comes back and watches Hyde's life from the outside.
Rated T.
731 words.
Pairings: Jackie/Hyde
*
I think this is it! I probably forgot some fics because my brain is weird, but yeah. I've read all of these, and they're all amazing. I think you'll love them!
#ask#fanfic recommendations#jackie x hyde#jackie and hyde#zenmasters#fanfic#that 70's show#that 70s show
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When Calls The Heart Live Rambles
S8 ep8 Parades and Charades (or something like that)
My gosh this episode is perhaps the best one we've had all season, and by that I just mean that Elizabeth actually had screen time, and she had actual lines, and she was part of plot that is relevant to h e r. Finally, the main character actually felt like the main character. HOWEVER, she is not very likeable in this episode, I must say (she hasn't been likeable for a while but you know)
The start of the episode when Elizabeth comes off her horse and she tries to talk to Nathan. I'm so glad that Nathan is firm even when Elizabeth doesnt like it. And he's not mean about it, he just tries to be honest while protecting himself and Allie from getting hurt even more. I honestly just love it when Elizabeth and Nathan have disagreements in general because when they do have arguments, it's usually because someone's feelings are showing and then it resolves in having made good progress in deepening their relationship. Elizabeth was totally out of line during that conversation btw. 'Now you're just being hurtful', um says the woman who rejected this man's love proposal and is now hurt that his niece didn't want to invite her to her very important and personal adoption ceremony...wow Elizabeth you really be asking for a lot. And then she's upset that he has to ride off to take care of mountie business. Yes, Elizabeth, this man has a job to do and your conversation will have to wait, sorry girlfriend.
When Nathan told Lucas to 'Save it' haha! Though I enjoyed it, I hope they don't write Lucas and Nathan to turn into enemies bc they are both pining for Elizabeth. It seems like it's headed in that direction based off of their dialogue throughout this episode. I guess it's understandable since Nathan has already been rejected and isn't backing down while Lucas and Elizabeth are a more official item. Okay, yeah, I understand it, but I don't want it to go too far *thinks back to the Lucas and Elizabeth in the rain scene* I guess I can't hope for that with this show. And later on when Lucas was talking to Nathan about how he should be thinking more of Allie and not getting her hurt. Ooooh I wanted to slap that fool. Who is he to be talking about Allie, he doesnt know anything about their relationship and he had no right to bring her up. Ugh that made me so angry.
Lucas's office. May I just say. Daaang. That's some nice, fancy office he's got there. Beautiful, absolutely beautiful. They were planning this reveal for a long time I bet to make Lucas look more attractive in this love triangle. And let me say, that first scene with Elizabeth in Lucas's office finally made me understand what Elizabeth see's in this guy. We were finally shown a glimpse into Lucas's daily life and how he handles business. Elizabeth comes in wanting to talk, but he has to be on the phone bc, ya know, the guy has to work, and we see him taking care of his responsibilities instead of pining over Elizabeth. Usually, in every scene that involves Elizabeth and Lucas, he's typically able to give her his full attention and the entire scene is about him wanting to win her favor. But finally we have a scene where he isn't just there to win her heart and he has to tell her, 'sorry, but can we do this later?' And bc of that the dinner invite didnt come across too forward and it made sense bc they had things to talk about. The scene just really built up a new side to Lucas's character that I felt we hadn't seen yet and that was lacking. He actually feels like a character with an independent purpose now. And of course I didn't forget. The French. Yeah it was both attractive and again added to Lucas's character. I'm sure the Lucas shippers are drooling right now. And on a more serious note, his French sounded very good and I actually just looked it up Chris McNally speaks French so...yeah very cool. But Elizabeth's French when she was saying goodbye at the door...oh how cringey. I mean she spoke well too, but it was just unnecessary and oh I cringed so hard when she did that.
When she went back to his office later...oh no. He said he didnt feel up to having dinner together, and then she still didnt leave him alone and was like, well I can stay and we can just talk. Um, no Elizabeth, the man just said he didnt want to talk right now, but I guess since it's not talking over dinner then it's okay??? And she patted the cushion for him to join her on that teeny tiny little bench. Yo, there was no room for two there. They were pressed up against each other so much it was so awkward to watch. I mean that was like being forced to sit in the two-seater bus seat when clearly there's only room for one. And then the hand hold...yuck, and the deep breath like they were both being tempted...eeh, and then he kissed her hand...ooh. He had to tell her to go bc he wanted to remain a patient man. I'm glad he told her, I'm not surprised that happened. Come on Elizabeth, give the man a break. I mean what did you think would happen when you asked him to sit right next to you on that tiny bench for one. Omg and she fanned herself after exiting. She likes him that much?? Or she's trying to make love form from a purely physical attraction.
I really don't like the whole Rachel and Christopher romance. Maybe I would like it and believe it more if the actors actually looked like teenagers. I mean, Rachel does not look 17, especially since we regularly see child actors on the show in school and they are entering their teens, if they aren't teens already. When comparing a kid like Anna to Rachel, Rachel just seems way to old for 17.
I love how we see Allie's side to this love triangle plot. I loved the scene between her and Elizabeth in the school house. I liked that we were finally having a discussion between just them, and then Elizabeth opens the invitation! I laughed so hard! The pop up of Nathan in his mountie uniform and Elizabeth at the dinner table. Oh that was so funny! and also adorable. Allie wasn't taking any of it, yo she said *Fine and she snatched that invitation back and she tore it up. I was yelling at my tv, yes Allie you tell her!
When Elizabeth approached Nathan at the parade...come on E. That was not the time or place. Again, I like that they have these conversations and disagreements, but the writing of that dialogue was just so bad I thought. It was so awkward sounding and the pacing just felt off. It really didnt flow and I wonder if the writers were running out of time or something. When Nathan said that Allie is afraid to talk to Elizabeth without him present...oh that hurt inside. I feel so sorry for Allie, she's so hurt by all this I just want to make everything better for her. I like that Elizabeth's concern for Allie is at the forefront bc it's like her and Nathan are the concerned parents, but since Elizabeth rejected Nathan (and therefore Allie too) she really has no right to demand a say in how to help Allie feel better. Elizabeth isnt part of the family unit and Allie is solely Nathan's responsibility. I really liked Erin's acting in the way we could see the moment where Elizabeth thought back to her conversation with Rosemary and decided right then and there that she had to ask Nathan what it was he wasnt telling her. I'm kind of disappointed in the secret though. I had made that prediction, but thought it was just too much and unnecessary drama...and then of course that's what it was. I have no clue how this will play out. I can't even remember the preview for next week. Anyway, overall, Elizabeth central, but also Elizabeth's annoying. Lucas shippers finally have something of substance...sort of. And as usual Nathan and Allie steal the show and I couldn't love them more.
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i think there’s a distinction that needs to be made. i think those with power over dabb & co are the ones who are exuding more habits of queerbaiting, while dabb and co aren’t. and because those execs are more or less invisible, the blame/fault is put on dabb as he’s the perceived figurehead of everything in the show when he’s not. anything he may want to put in the show can be easily vetoed by a higher exec so
Okay so I said I wouldn’t touch related issues facing wanky-side, but while this runs the line this is such a genuine, and valid thought process it feels worth addressing.
So in short: Yes. But no. But yes. But no. But we’ll see.
What do I mean by that? I’m going to put this behind a cut. But first of all I want to thank this Nonnie for at least trying to critically think about where the problems lead to. This is FAR BETTER CRITICAL THINKING than I see in this discussion most of the time and this. More like this. Nuance, discussion, idea trade, history. Let’s do it.
Okay, so.
How can it be yes no yes no maybe eenie meenie miney mo?
Because it really depends on what part of this 15 year legacy show we’re talking about.
What I’m about to say isn’t going to be popular, but I’ve said it before, I just can’t find the ancient ass post discussing it.
We’re going to rewind. Like, a fucking lot. A lot, a lot. This is going to be a history ride, and you’re probably going to wonder how it connects to the conversation at first, but bear with me.
Ignoring any personal frustrations I have with the casting of season 4 – frankly a chapter of this FUCKING show that haunts me somewhere in the ballpark of, “If my friend wasn’t dismissed as not white enough and got the role, would we have Misha, Destiel, any of this, would the show be on, would she have been chased off as the other actresses?” – and frankly these are the things people don’t even fucking *think* about.
TLDR a bajillion years ago CW made a casting call and we got this super cute character named Anna that Dean was slated to bend over in two seconds flat, as old canon used to be before modernly growing. The actress expressed discomfort, and frankly went over with the audience about as well as wet cardboard. And like, while I agree that a lot of women were hated for misogynistic reasons in this show, she really was about as interesting as a plank of plywood to me once she got past her first performance or two.
At the same time, this handsome bastard named Misha Collins auditioned for a bit role originally intended for 3 episodes and quickly extended to 6. But, identified as lightning in a bottle and with on-fire chemistry, while Anna waffled for *several* reasons, summarily, their story ends swapped. That’s… not like *exactly* what happened but it’s *basically* what happened. Anna became the herald and contagonist instead of Cas, and Cas quite frankly took on the role of the goddess.
With Lisa already entered before Anna, there’s no evidence whatsoever she was intended as endgame. Story flip. Thank you for everything last night on earth fall by angel banishing almost like this was foreshadowed woohoo! But… don’t lend towards a relationship. No point. Given, they made a few jokes on set at that point, but it wasn’t really an idea *they thought anyone took seriously*.
Coming from a phase where most of the leads were introduced to “slash fandom” by Wincest, which they literally used to torture and prank each other, the idea of this being anything serious really wasn’t on their radar. The one I remember most was Misha choosing to sit on Dean’s side of the bed as Cas in the famous “What were you dreaming about?” and Sgriccia being like “that’s kinda gay” “nah keep it”
I mean, is that… queerbait at that point? I don’t think it’s fair to really call it that. They respectfully tried to scrub out the leading romantic edges from what would have been Anna’s story, but ultimately, the human psyche kind of recognizes 8000 years of storytelling history subconsciously when using the Hero’s Journey narrative, so it was resonant. Nobody was crazy for seeing it. That didn’t mean it was right, that didn’t mean it’s what they were consciously leading anyone for.
Hell, Jensen didn’t even know what the fuck Destiel WAS until season 7 (”Deathstiel?”) due to the way cons, circuits, and fansites kept the conversation force-muted at that point. Anything they had floated somewhere in the area of “hah that is kinda gay I guess”, and even that there’s no evidence of being frequent.
Kripke left, the show petered, social media was new, and summarily, Sera Gamble was a dumbass and listened to the wrong crowd that seemed super big back when big accounts were a whole 10K followers and you had 50 asshats screaming as a coordinated group about Ruining The Show™. Ratings tanked, somewhere between Misha being fired and the show turning into a parody of itself with dick jokes that made it seem like Gamble was trying to target 11 year old boys for her audience, and like, that’s it, that was the season.
Until that nosedive spiral essentially turned into a shorthand apology reversal, a panicked and roughly written script that was *SO GAY* that *EVEN MISHA FUCKING COLLINS* couldn’t seriously choke out the dialogue. It was cheap, it was out of character, and as Jensen put it, the dialogue might as well have had him petting and sobbing into Castiel’s coat while essentially being like I SLEEP WITH YOUR COAT EVERY NIGHT TO REMEMBER YOUR SCENT UWU and shit that just LITERALLY vaulted from alien fascinated staring into desperate teenage gay drama in the body of a 30 year old man.
So yeah. Did I consider it reasonable to change that? Fuck yes I did.
Was what Sera Gamble did queerbait? Yes, actually. And she did it again in the Magicians. You see, Gamble had fucked over an audience, and then tried to exploit that audience in reverse when she realized she fucked over the *wrong* audience, but had zero intent of fulfillment.
And then magically, Sera Gamble didn’t fucking work there anymore after a whole like, year and a half as showrunner.
Now, at the same time, Dawn Ostroff was leaving the CW. Jensen’s had some pretty fierce words about Dawn Ostroff not understanding the show and how to manage it, but whatever. Bye, Dawn. Hello… MARK FUCKING PEDOWITZ. But at the same time, WELCOME BACK CARVER and most of all HOWDY DO NETFLIX, so nice to make a guaranteed deal with you (that ended as of this year due to a CBS merchandising meltdown).
When Carver came back, he said a lot of things. He… very tactfully called Gamble’s era trash by phasing it like “:) Watching the show :) since I left :) I realized :) a lot of our mythology :) has been difficult to follow :) so I went :) back to basics :) please help”, and others, like mentioning he had a three year plan on his desk. So 3. Season 8, 9, 10. He had notes for his S10 finale in mind and everything! Great stuff.
Now the fandom, at this point, generally didn’t pay attention to the network or production. In fact, the actor worship around here is some other kind of wild and I don’t know how after 15 years people haven’t figured out that it isn’t how to go about paying attention. Either way – plot switches, showrunner switches, author switches, and NETWORK LEADERSHIP SWITCHES.
Now, this little part here is speculation – but I am 99% sure that when Carver was pulling SPN out of the cancellation toilet, he had bigger things to inform the new execs about than “btw I might make it gay.” Like “Hey, since CW just got its netflix deal, if you give us another year we can import fresh demographic while bringing back Collins’ old fanbase by setting him back as a regular.” SURE, SOUND GREAT, MAKE MONEY, THX.
Cool. Cool. Make sense so far, you still with me?
Because at this point, S8 into early S9, fandom had gotten itself into all kinds of a stir. It was about to go canon, rite nao, said a bunch of bloggers, who at that point WERE pretty much chasing wallpapers and Tshirts and making the most bizarre uncorroborated parallel interpretations like “IF U PARALLEL IT TO MOBY DICK-” WHAT WHY WHERE– ??? BUT cAS = fISH
Okay, my fucking annoyance at what counted as lit crit in those days aside, we’ll get back on track. Everybody started vibrating for this shit because, you know what, S8 did resonate pretty strong, almost like authors were toying with ideas. I’m not gonna get into stuff about Robbie, I THINK fandom knows the statements he’s made and I don’t just mean the whole Destiel being canon tweet both antis and bitters descended on him to eviscerate him about. About what? Calling it queerbait!
So here we go, the great advent. About a year after a dramatic network shift, a CW exec was like :))))))))) I’D LIKE TO LEARN ABOUT THIS FANDOM THAT IS SUDDENLY MAKING ME MONEY!! WHAT SHOULD I DO??? TO TWITTER! HASHTAG TALK TO THEM!
[logs in]
Beep boop. “Destiel?” “Destiel?” “Destiel?” “Destiel?” “Destiel?” “Destiel?” “Destiel?” “Destiel?” “Destiel?” “Destiel?” “Destiel?” “Destiel?” “Destiel?” “Destiel?” “Destiel?” the FUCK is a Destiel? Wait what no I don’t know what you’re talking about representation isn’t our intention with these characters. “QUEERBAIT” “QUEERBAIT” “QUEERBAIT” “QUEERBAIT” “QUEERBAIT” “QUEERBAIT” “QUEERBAIT” “QUEERBAIT” “QUEERBAIT” “QUEERBAIT” “QUEERBAIT”
And then the network exec got so slammed he deleted twitter entirely and everybody popped confetti and felt accomplished and did NOT realize how fucking BAD that was. And frankly, anyone that did kinda didn’t want to admit it, because taking responsibility for that tire fire was… not… attractive. In fact, several folks are still around to this day, bitter blogging or making weirdass meta or accusing other people of wallpapers and Tshirts because that’s what they did so *YAY, PROJECTION!*
My own frustrated bitterness aside, I’m going to place some questions down, and not so much answer them as, now that the reader has really taken history in, let them decide:
At this point… is this queerbait?
Because this is when the queerbait yelling began. It’s when every fan with even a moderate platform or site blasted it out there.
It’s when the fandom made DeanCas a big problem.
And it’s also literally the same time Carver left his very first recorded, known direction with a romantic tilt, “The note I got from Jeremy Carver was to play it like a jilted lover, so that’s what we played there,” on LGBT author Bobo berens’ very first episode. Everyone runs circles around that modernly, or goes “SEE??? QUEERBAIT!” without realizing what the FUCK just happened here.
So, SPN went from cancel rating line to their most successful show between 7 and 9. Suddenly corporate sees their successful product *ON FUCKING FIRE* so do you know what happens?
Fuck it this IS one line I’ll break: Corporate panicked. They changed their press packets. If you noticed a bunch of media-adjacent people and their friends suddenly get bitter as FUCK in season 10 after still surviving the S9 mess, here’s fucking why. Because now that everybody spent the last YEAR trying to burn down the product yelling about shit that corporate had been literally blindsided by, they added temporarily a new section to the packet that included sexuality. They were, at that moment, suddenly listed collectively as heterosexual men. SEE, WE AREN’T QUEERBAITING IF WE TELL YOU THEY’RE STRAIGHT *will smith pose*
Congrats fandom, you have now officially made Destiel A Huge Problem™ to the corporate behemoth behind the shiny pictures. The iron curtain dropped. This is what you could call “Protect the Product Mode” if you will.
Now again, at this point: Is it queerbait?
Because at this point, S9-10 was rolling out. We all know it, Cain, Collette, *gestures off into infinity* But let’s fall back to Carver’s statement. 3 years. 8, 9, 10. You know what else happened season 10?
A bunch of shit, including shit Carver *wrote himself for the season 10 finale* got filmed, then cut. Coincidentally, it was all very gay shit. Things that pulled forward the Crowley/Abaddon Cas/Colette Sam/Abel parallels, arguing over who was who’s boyfriend, Rowena mentioning about them both being shattered at the Altar of Winchester (15.3 is calling), the secret admirer dream, I could go on. I mean, this shit literally would have shifted the entire storytelling arc to full-frontal taking that parallel and addressing it right up in your face. First you’ll kill your mistress but you’ll get it done, and then you’ll kill your wife. He’s your boyfriend no he’s YOUR boyfriend. You’ve BOTH been shattered at the Altar of Winchester. Really, this is what you dream about? Your secret admirer Cas?
K? K. K?
Is it queerbait for Carver to have entered with a plan? Is it queerbait for Carver to have been interrupted on that plan despite attempting to pursue it? And is it queerbait for the network to still lock down on that plan so close after the event?
You see why this conversation gets increasingly complex.
S11 rolled around, Carver was half in half out, Dabb was stepping in, big gay heart songs, take what you will out of that entire mess, and by S12 Dabb entirely took over and we started entering the era we are in today.
So let’s address where we’re at today.
Now :) I can’t say anything for sure :) because anybody that’s been to or worked on marketing stuff definitely has an NDA :) but let’s play for a minute. Let’s say with the stone wall up, a set of creators still wanted to actually *go somewhere* with this story.
“But!” remembered the network, “Remember the tire fire?! And all the people that hated the gay?! What about our profit?!”
“No,” a creator might say, “Tides have changed.”
“We’ll see,” a network might say, “Take it to market testing.” At which point, one would enter a few years of polling how the general audience reacts to this.
Now, if they were seeing promising numbers, they might be given a bit of rope. Why, let’s … just pretend. Totally. Totally pretending. That Dabb pitched this idea to take up Carver’s mantle. Let’s say that started S12ish when he took over. Let’s say they ran through hiatus. And then… authors might be given a little bit of a line. “Looks good, but we’re not sure,” said a network quite fond of its split conservative/liberal demographic, “Try it out a bit and see how it goes.”
And so an author room that would be full of LGBT creators fed out good faith groundwork. They might even be like YALL ITS NEVER TOO LAAAAAATE TO START ALL OVER AGAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIN and just throw their whole boy howdy cowboy into that shit and get great ratings.
What if even if the results came back positive leaning, the network ho’ed and hummed and stayed noncommital? Might the creators scale it back while still writing it lowkey just in case they got flashed a greenlight? I know I sure would, woudn’t you?! Or I guess would you prefer we drop the whole thing cold and stop writing anything vaguely in the direction?
Difficult question, in reality, isn’t it?
So in this TOTALLY HYPOTHETICAL SITUATION, this leaves the authors holding the bag, waiting for a sign, and being held with limitations. And just in case anybody thinks “BUT AUTHORS CAN DO WHATEVER THEY WANT!! AND!! OTHER SHOWS!!!”
K have we come down to reality yet? So, sure kids, try the gay, we’re interested, but you can’t like, go Full Gay Frontal with it. You gotta imply the gay. Wouldn’t want to offend conservative america! Besides! We’re totally exploiting marketing making this LGBT content for you over here! *jingles a carrot on a stick* LOOK AT HOW MUCH WE’RE FLEECING ADVERTISING PROMOTING ALL THIS GAY STUFF FOR YOU AREN’T THE RAINBOWS GREAT?
Some creator of limited LGBT content: How’s the marketing looking?
Some network: EH! We’ll see!
Some creator of limited LGBT content: K guys we’ll scale it back to not upset them but don’t drop it.maybe we can have them hold hands at the end or if we’re lucky maybe they’ll say we can do the whole thing
Some LGBT creators: K
Making sense still? STILL WITH ME?
So at this point… is this queerbait, or is this business?
Put aside the emotional reaction. Realize this really only hit scale in S9, hit front line S10, and hit potential corporate discussion in this TOTALLY theoretic universe around S11-12. We’re talking 3-4 years. Not 10. And we’re talking only a few of it really being tested.
So again I ask, history minded: Is this queerbait, or is this business?
That’s where the nuance and complication comes in, and let it be said I am in no way defending the CW. I fucking hate the network. They have literally personally screwed over real friends of mine and I hope they choke on a whole bag of dicks with their bullshit, but honestly, the shit I have seen and heard would make people stick their heads in the sand like scared and ashamed ostriches for every time they trumpet “BUT OTHER SHOWS” – you don’t know what’s going on in those shows. You don’t know how they’re getting hardballed on budget decisions, you don’t know what that show’s marketed demographic is about, you don’t know what they demand cast how, you literally don’t have a fucking idea unless you’re up in that disaster zone.
And even IF you’re in that disaster zone, unless you’re truly in the upper echelon, you only know so much.
Now let’s pretend, again, totally metaphorically, and absolutely not inspired by a real person at all, that someone worked with the crew for a while and, because they saw support inside creeping upward siiiiince mmmm gosh we’ll say season 12 since that’s our advent and totally not when anybody specific started working there and telling fandom ladder fans what they thought they saw going on, only to get sad and bitter and angry and eventually leave, and all those friends, still abiding old bitterness from S9~, now get angrier because of somebody else’s burnout on their ITK level and perspective, even if that was *probably* aggravated by other work stress conditions as well, but hey! WHO KNOWS!?!?! :)))) What a weird hypothetical though and I’m getting weirdly super specific on it aren’t I so LET’S MOVE ON.
We’re in S12-13 discussion category now.
So my question is, from this perspective… when do you call queerbait? When not swept up in misguided hysteria… at what point do you say “Yeah, you know what, yup, that’s all queerbait”?
So we’re gonna take a bit of a break here for a second and really process all of that hypothetical world, where a creator pitched going for it, and got it put into market testing, and was given enough rope to hang themselves on if the network changed its mind.
After only a few years of conscious thought on it… do you even think the network is truly consciously misguiding specifically those fans, or do they see it as giving the fans something they want while testing the idea of possibly truly giving it to them?
Because here’s what fandom misses – the corporate perspective. And again, I’m utterly not fucking justifying the CW as a whole, but people look at this from the angle of fans, and then argue what they think is representative dialogue from the angle of fans, often while missing all of this history. All that history up till S9? That’s all very real. But looking at history in perspective… who are you going to blame for that? Is it fair to hold S4-9 to that five year stretch of queerbait when that was… pretty much fandom manufactured from blissful ignorance to begin with? I mean if you want to go yell at Sera Gamble Specifically okay (please don’t) but beyond that like– that shit? Is that anybody’s fault? Do you blame a company for actually shutting DOWN the talk of it on a press angle? Can we call that and S10 queerbait then? Was Carver’s attempt at writing through it queerbait? Was trying to continue the story in S11 after theoretic shutdown queerbait? These are all genuine questions that are not asked enough. Most people don’t even realize they need to be asked.
So back to Totally Theoretic Land, where S12ish market testing would have been going on to see if people really thought it was Gay N Shit. Like a lot of people in an overwhelming majority after the amount of apprehension the straight old dude running the network has ever since the goddamn tornado of horse shit that happened like a year after he took over. Probably not the fondest fucking memory for him either. Probably also why he dismissively called most of that demographic “casual fans”, because in Smug White Guy Brain, “tru” fans would have all known, I guess, exactly the shit I’m telling you in history backtrack so, look at the silly girls wanting the gay shit :) Ahhhh girlllllls
Okay so, my impression of douchebags aside, let’s give it 12-13 hiatus to give the first test rope lead and 13-14 hiatus for the next, only to have at best noncommital and uncertain numbers and authors, theoretically, cautiously pulling back while writing it as generally established and implicit, as if it might, I don’t know, go from BIG GAY DRAMA to DEADASS DOMESTIC all of a sudden despite ITS NEVER TOO LATE TO START ALL OVER AGAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIN cuz get it, they started over, after he came in his room and played him. *elbows* You all get it right?
K. So maybe numbers changed. Maybe they don’t. Maybe I’m not comfortable talking in this hypothetical, maybe I don’t have access to this hypothetical AU’s current marketing data as of this year, I just don’t know! We don’t know where those cards fell.
But if, at this point, after 2-3 years of market testing, and leading authors on, and giving them enough rope to hang themselves with to get themselves accused of queerbait just for trying to lay good faith groundwork for a cohesive narrative, because fans don’t care that 2 open closet LGBT authors are on deck or that there’s totally theoretically probably and in no way fingering anyone at least one closeted author on deck, or at least publicly so, their coworkers would probably know. But I mean. That’s just. :) statistics. Right?
K whatever moving on. If at this point they’ve been boggley bounced around… you know, I gotta say. At this point… I might actually call queerbait if the network stonewalls it. At this point, they’ve had a few years to really get their shit together, and if they’ve just used it to play yo yo with LGBT creators trying to make content then yeah, go suck a whole bag of dicks.
The problem being with the lack of nuance in this conversation, you’re right, Dabb and co would catch it rather than the guilty party, which is why I HATE faux activism culture. If you’re going to be an activist pay the fuck attention to what you’re being an activist in, don’t bite the hand that’s feeding you just because it was a PBJ and not filet mignon, go after the bastard 1%’er that’s eating all the goddamn filet mignon. But nobody will. It never works like that. And then everybody wonders why this continues – be it in this show, or on other networks.
But hey. Maybe this theoretic network got enough material to change their mind. Maybe another executive got promoted that might help one of the other creators argue it to corporate with their new shiny title. Maybe they can convince someone. Convince them of what and to what level, who knows. Maybe just continue telling the established story, give them a divorce, mention marriage, divorce, dead wives, breakups every 0.2 seconds while they go through a classically framed dark point in the romance everybody with brains and eyes understands because, again, historic storytelling we literally all recognize, but pretend we don’t when stomping about personal representation lines? Or hey! Maybe it’ll go further. (Don’t hold your breath.) Throw in some other shit that even a straight guy would look at and be like “two dicks one chick that shit’s gay bro” because WE LITERALLY ALL FUCKING KNOW WHAT IT MEANS EVEN IF IT’S IMPLIED BECAUSE THE NETWORK IS A BUNCH OF PUSSIES.
…*stops, breathes*
If you can’t tell this is a very long term topic of frustration to me, because nobody, absolutely nobody, wants to introspect and think, you know, maybe it wasn’t queerbait back then, maybe we SHOULDN’T have set a corporate exec on fire about it, that might have been fucking bad.
There are other ways to be an activist than to scream queerbait into the void at whoever is unfortunate enough to cross your paths. One of the best examples I can remember is Exorcising Emily collecting demographics on fandom, and testimonials from LGBT fans about resonating with the content – no fanfic, no fanart, no attacks – and sent copies of this to several powerful creative names.
Now… if with this history… if, from season 9 to 12… one of those names became a creator. If, by some FLUKE of imagination… he still had that book around… and even gave it to his freshly joined new employees like 2 weeks after they started working there–
oh wait and i oop
The mentions would be much as you expect, antis screaming and demanding her job (QUICK, somebody tell Andrew Dabb that she’s READING ANDREW DABB’S OWN BOOKS THAT HE CHOSE TO KEEP AROUND FOR THREE YEARS).
Has Dabb’s era seemed… more plugged in? More resonant? Better and stronger in its storytelling? More hooked into fandom?
See, that’s what well thought activism can do. Well thought activism can structure an entire movement. Poorly thought rioting thinking itself as activism can cause the literal opposite effect of what it wanted. That is how these things contrast each other. And that is something fandom needs to DEEPLY consider.
…but is it queerbait for him to try to continue the story? Even if, say, we drop the marketing talk, because TOTALLY nobody can ACTUALLY know because AGAIN anyone that DOES would have an NDA so we DEFINITELY can’t say anybody knows anything for sure, because anyone that said jack shit would probably get sued so hard their descendents down in whatever homo superior evolution 1000 years into the future would feel it, so you know. We’ll put aside this totes theoretical shit and ask
…If he just was told no– would you prefer to just drop the storyline entirely at this point?
Again. Genuine question. And difficult. And something poorly thought queerbait screaming can actually cause, too.
So here we are in the land of the final season. Whether you consider it network queerbait or not – again, they can choke on the whole bag of dicks at a network level for all I care for ANY number of reasons, even well beyond the domain of Supernatural, and may all their bacon burn from here into the next life – it’s a lot more complicated than fandom has ever let it on to be, because letting it on to be what it really is, in full perspective, also demands a lot of introspection and acceptance, and we all know nobody in this fandom can ever make a mistake ever and they’re all fucking perfect darlings.
It’s a complicated answer to a simple idea… and unfortunately I don’t think this fandom will ever really sit here. They’ll yell “VICTIM BLAMING” because it’s buzzy, they’ll yell “HIDING YOUR GAYS” which I mean, yeah, but let’s talk about what led us here. They’ll yell a lot of things. But they will rarely quietly think, and study, and hone down to what’s going on in the world out there beyond what they have, at this point, become obsessively hotlocked on.
Supernatural, as of 15.7, has already taken several steps further than it ever is before. No, that’s not a signal of me saying [Your Personal Goalpost] is going to happen. But it’s a sign that if they have a line, they’re testing it with every strength they have.
Going back onto the Fateful Advent: Cain. The mentor– who was never going to stop; I can’t stop samuel; he was never going to stop; I will never stop; Rowena, the mentor, never going to stop, shattered, at the altar of Winchester. Long ago, when Cas was human, Dean sealed him away, and now, he’s doing the same to him. So Shirt Of Bad Decisions Deanmon basically karaokes with his friend like the Crowley days, REPEATING the Crowley dialogue but infinitely harder to dodge, as if some sort of calculated method of cat’s cradle of How To Write The Gay was discussed. Man, whoever wrote that kind of shit would probably even publicly thank whatever big gay mastermind helped them map out THAT level of stuff. Wouldn’t it be funny if most of that shit had been written by a gay dude that’s still around and it’s still popping back up in the show louder and harder to dodge than before? That’d be fuckin’ wild, man. Oh, fucking WAIT.
And this is why I hate the way shipping culture thinks it’s doing activism. Most of the time it’s cosplaying as an activist and at this point it’s become more of a furry convention than it has any kind of organized rights movement. Nobody’s out here fighting for the rights of these LGBT authors this year, nobody’s helping them get a voice, and in fact, often scream at them or bury what voice they’ve had as not enough.
And I want to fix it.
Desperately.
And frankly, I don’t know how anymore.
But what we’re not talking about is some 3-5 year show that came in early and started intentionally fucking at you. We’re looking at happy coincidences, so let’s check with our gay king, the father of Wayward that everybody coincidentally accepted as canon with far less because of a (meaningful) third party line DeanCas had elsewhere but hey it didn’t have antis so suddenly it counts; let’s check with him about that.
That’s my king. That’s my king that wrote the first recorded episode to be intentionally directed as jilted lovers. My king that gav eus Colette. My king that gave us the mixtape. My king that gave us the PR framed breakup. My king that gave us Cas leaving Dean. That’s my King. That’s my gay king who has been fighting his ass off, only to be hung out to dry by a fandom that doesn’t even care to look where or how to scream, or maybe consider that perhaps screaming isn’t the option.
Is he yours yet? Have I broken through to a single soul on this?
That’s my king who wrote about the necessary evils in 2003, before the youngest in this fandom were born and while many were still in diapers or kindergarten; about the unfortunate necessary evils that he loathes and acknowledges about moderate queer content gaining exponential amounts of platform compared to whatever is considered hardline aggressive at the time, about how that incrementalization is what helped our media landscape evolve to this day.
And he isn’t wrong.
And he’s getting roasted for doing just that.
And I really wish I could just psychically make everyone fucking stop.
But I will say one thing.
“It’s network queerbait!” I mean
Yeah
That
Because… realistically? like 99% of modern queer content is queerbait, even stuff with canon queer content.
ESPECIALLY on the CW.
If you’ve noticed CW panicking the last year and trying to slap rainbows and DARE TO DEFY on everything, it’s because their entire fucking ecosystem just got fucked over by CBS wanting 100% merchandising profit like it already took 100% digital profit and Netflix was basically like “miss us with your bullshit” and broke the CW contract which was *HOW PEDOWITZ BANKROLLED MOST OF HIS NETWORK*. Now? Now CW has to carve a niche. So LOOK AT ALL THE FUCKING PRIDE COLORS ON– OUR– STRAIGHT–CHARACTERS??? BUT WE HAVE GAY ONES LIKE LEGENDS OF TOMORROW AND *flips notes* THAT SIDE CHARACTER LESBIAN ON SPN.
*gets a whisper* What they killed her? Shit. Maybe bring her back. AND THERE’S THIS PERSON OVER ON JANE THE VIRGIN oh that just got cancelled uhhh VAMPIRE DI-wait fuck. Well we’ll just make one of the chicks in this shitty charmed reboot CBS just forced down our throat and killed Wayward over, that’ll fix it *jazz hands*
TV is a business. Businesses make money. The entire LGBT battle is basically us industriously proving we can make money. It’s about rights and visibility on our end, but on their end it is *always* about money and I really don’t think anybody really groks what that really means.
So “it’s the network! Queerbait!”
…yeahhhhh.
…welcome to working in television. Now you just have to sit and think about how many other times this has completely missed your radar.
The network will never get a shit about you, they give a shit about your money, and that’s just the reality of capitalist america whether we like it or not. When it’s 2143 and bernie sanders’ floating head in a jar is president and andrew yang’s base income shit is in effect and we’re all a socialist country and the world has figured out how to run high cost businesses like TV on the power of unicorn farts, they might actually give a shit. But they don’t. There may be a few advocates WITHIN the company that do, but as a whole body, the network will never give a shit. They don’t care if you’re black, white, straight, gay, disabled, male, female, beyond what, explicitly, that totals to in dollar signs depending how they feed you, when and where.
So it’s not like... *just* a queer rights issue, it’s an “Anything Trump’s America may consider offensive on their television” issue. It’s businesses weighing who they think pays their bills while making it and beyond that who they think is the safest investment to make the most money.
As a side note: Personally, I’d consider it dumb as fuck to not do it. SPN will taper within a few years down to just trekkie-esque addicts unless they find a way to get a new burst of viewership and boy howdie do I hope so, but how much Pedowitz overvalues the conservative US demographic, or certain international markets, I don’t know. I’m not in his head and I don’t have this year’s marketing numbers beyond basic live, +3 and +7 ratings, and digital calls. And just general nielsen released demo. But how he’s added that all up? Can’t say. And I sure ain’t gonna bank on him not being a dumbass, when he’s famous for it, so don’t go get your hopes up either.
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Hey Lightning, I was wondering if I could get your thoughts on something. One take that seems to keep returning every once in a while is the "Allura fell for Lotor only after he revealed his Altean heritage," but I know u and others have disproven this many times, which does reassure me. While I love Allura, I definitely think one of her weaknesses was her devotion to Altea and singing Alfor's praises, which sometimes became too much. At the same time, it bothers me when I see some ppl (1/?)
Continuing anon message: “ say that she thought Alteans were superior to all other races, and that when the colony plot twist happened, she became repulsed by Lotor's Galra side, which is why she rejected him. For them, that's why she forced violent memories onto an uncorrupted Zarkon, but somehow "saw the good/redeemed" Honerva, the Altean. I can kind of understand where they're coming from, but for me, it just didn't make sense that Allura suddenly had a change of heart considering for most of s8, she was angry and dead set on going after Honerva. Even with that, I think to a lot of her fans, s8 made Allura so ooc that she became unrecognizable, which hurt to watch. I guess for me it's hard seeing antis and people who don't like her claim that that's just how she is and has always been. Haha sorry for rambling, but I'd love to hear your thoughts on this, since your arguments ease my mind on a lot of things when it comes to Allura :)”
Hi, anon. Wow, thanks for your extended note! I don’t know anywhere in canon that Allura champions Alteans as a superior race. The definition of racial supremacy is a belief that inherent genetic differences between races determine cultural or individual achievement, with social/governmental policies championing intolerance of other races. To get Allura to fit into such a label:
1. A viewer has to ignore or undermine all the evidence available about who the main-universe Alteans really were before main-universe Zarkon’s massacre of them.
2. A viewer has to ignore or undermine how Allura actually responds to a variety of different races in the show, including her own.
So let’s start with issue one. To support an “Allura was a racial supremacist” opinion, a lot of antis (and even non-militant, average viewers) are favorable to the opinion that Alteans as a group, including Alfor, were actually evil and violent colonizer elitists before Galrans killed them off. In other words, they question Altean victimhood, and this allows the militant antis to poison and undermine scenes of a woman mourning her home and her beloved family. And it just gets to be a really unsettling conversation, to listen to someone actually try to justify genocide. They’ll also have suspicions that all of our foundational backstory in the s3 finale was just “cleansed” propaganda from Coran. So if antis can undermine Allura’s entire race and family as corrupt, then they can intentionally undermine any of her canonical statements about or efforts toward peace. Which is hilarious, because this racist tactic applied to Allura is actually what a lot of antis accuse Allura of doing with Lotor.
For the record, I don’t think the show production team actually intended the subliminal messaging/cognitive dissonance that I’m about to discuss. The people who designed and developed this show are fans of robot kitties and aren’t PhDs in social issues. But I think there is a very serious issue about the portrayal of genocide victims that feeds into some very real problems in our world, especially regarding the concept of racial supremacy and conspiracy theories about genocide victims.
VLD tried to play with both genocide politics for edge™ points while ALSO playing with shatterglass theory (shatterglass meaning an AU where the heroes are villains and villains are heroes). Combining these two concepts into the same universe creates some incredibly disturbing subliminal messaging about Alteans that very closely mimics ongoing neo-Nazi propaganda against Jews. Nazis and other anti-Semitists justify their hatred of Jews by equating them as terrible villains out for world domination via some underhanded shadow control of the mass populace. It’s an incredibly malicious form of propaganda, because it works so terribly well. And what do you know, VLD plays right into this kind of propaganda. In the season 3 episode, Hole in the Sky, we’re faced with team Voltron confronting an Altean Empire that was actually evil and out for multiverse domination. And oh by the way, they’re using malicious shadow tech to control a mass populace.
It’s like someone on the production team read the Protocols of the Elders of Zion and then just copied/pasted that incredibly damaging and widely accepted conspiracy theory right onto Alteans for s3 funsies because edge content.
This is incredibly punishing, for the narrative to wave the carrot stick in front of genocide survivors that maybe some others survived—and then to suggest that Alteans were the evil ones all along. A shatterglass twist worked very well in Captain Marvel (2019) for a lot of reasons, for example, but it just doesn’t work well in the VLD universe given that the show explicitly portrays the genocide victims as evil and validates this concept. And this episode unfortunately feeds ongoing cognitive dissonance in antis that if AU Alteans could be so evil…how certain are you that they aren’t in the main universe too? On the reverse side, the main-universe goes out of its way to portray that not all Galrans are evil, and even that Galrans were the primary resistance (BOM). But in this singular episode, we see a united Altean empire. And the only Altean who moves to stand against it once the shine wears off…is Allura. There is no AU Altean actually shown in the Guns of Gamara. So Allura stands alone as an Altean against her own people.
For this reason, this episode doesn’t function very well as a shatterglass AU either, because the moral “flip” isn’t a mirror balance to main universe. The Alteans of the AU world appear as fully united in their evil plans. And then, no doubt, anti-alluras point out other quirky things about main-universe Alteans throughout the show—the violent language-learning system that scares Pidge, and the ancient Altean terraforming technology that Haggar activates, and the fact that Oriande is a hidden place that keeps out the less magical with a violent guardian. These details, when removed from main-universe world building, create a cognitive dissonance about whether main-universe Allura and Alteans were actually genuine in how they depicted respectful “peace and diplomacy.” So anti alluras who believe Allura was a racial supremacist really rely on this s3 episode and these details to uphold their conspiracy theory.
So let’s focus on Allura in this episode, because it says a lot about who she ultimately is as a person, and people have forgotten how she actually responded in this episode. Allura is unquestionably hopeful at the thought that her and Coran might not be the last Alteans alive. Pretty understandable. If I were the last human, I’d be darn excited to find out there’s more of me left, lol. So her experience as a genocide victim initially blinds her to the evilness of these Alteans. You can even see the ache on her face, of how badly she wants to believe their narrative of peace.
So Allura is initially star-struck that she and Coran are not the last Alteans, yes, and that somehow they’ve achieved a “peace.” She is also not afraid to admit that they would be valuable allies in the war:
And she’s not wrong there, considering that they have what appears to be extensive military resources and a robot force of their own. But she makes a critical mistake in assuming that “these are my people” means that they share main-universe cultural sentiments. The instant Allura hears Slav (so not someone of her own race) call these Alteans out as actually evil colonizers turning people into slaves, she begins to question the narrative she’s received.
In this instance, she actually affords the Alteans the same courtesy she afforded Lotor—the opportunity to deny the accusations.
But in the AU Altean’s case, they try to turn blame back on other parties. Allura listens to Keith when he grows increasingly fearful of what the Alteans might do to the others, and she tries to plead for actual peace:
And actually, this is a pretty interesting moment for Allura. She tries to salvage an alliance…until she realizes that their differences are irreconcilable, and that their definition of peace is inherently different from her own. This probably sets the stage for why Allura was so triggered by Lotor talking about peace while also killing people—because she’s seen people misappropriate that term before. And also probably informs why she trusts the information of both Keith and Krolia (both of whom have Galran blood, btw).
Ultimately, Allura turns against her own people. Violently:
When they get angry about her wanting actual peace, Allura draws a weapon against them and rejects them from her people. This mimics how she spends several seasons fighting an Altean Haggar/Honerva for her crimes, and how she turns against Lotor too.
So case in point here, Allura loves her people, obviously—but she also is holding them to moral standards regarding their behavior, which is something that a genuine racist doesn’t do. As a matter of fact, Lotor is the only person of Altean blood that Allura genuinely bonds with ever again in the series. She’s distant with Romelle, she’s distant with the s8 Alteans… In s8, Allura even says this about Luca, which refers back to her own mistakes she made with initially being star-struck by the s3 AU Alteans who came in “peace”:
Allura herself had been manipulated in s3, wanting so desperately to not be the last Altean alive that it initially blinded her to how Commander Hira was manipulating her. The plight of the s8 Alteans who are deceived by Honerva is inherently frustrating to her, because she can see herself in them.
Absolutely none of this correlates with Allura seeing or perpetuating Alteans as a superior race. At every turn, her own people continue to disappoint her, and she increasingly and progressively separates herself from them in hopelessness, because they’re so brainwashed that they can’t see they’re just cannon fodder for someone else’s military agendas. Not exactly a ringing endorsement for a superior race, lol.
So let’s think about anti accusations here. Allura is a racial supremacist…but she’s arguing against her people who believe unquestionably in Honerva, another full Altean like herself? Nothing about that accusation makes sense with her actions.
The fact is, consistently from season 3 and onward, Allura is faced with her own people morally disappointing her.
The good news for the s8 Alteans like Tavo is that Allura is able to remove the dark entity Honerva is using to control him. Which allows other Alteans to “wake up” from being manipulated and try to make amends.
Regardless, Allura makes a very clear line that simply being Altean doesn’t make someone “right.” She sees herself fully at odds with her own people who are drawn in by Honerva’s lies. And she experienced well back in s2 (revealing Haggar as Honerva) and s3 (evil AU Alteans) that any given race, including her own, can house people who do bad things.
The fact is, she’s consistently and willingly drawn weapons against even her own people when they didn’t meet her moral expectations. So her response to Lotor isn’t particularly out of line there. She’s repulsed by a moral flaw.
And actually, Lotor himself wouldn’t have known this, but he very oddly echoed the AU Alteans by getting angry that Allura was angry over the means through which he was trying to get peace:
So Lotor actually reverts to the same logic of the AU Alteans—peace at any cost, just look at the results—
And keep in mind that the AU Alteans also manipulated Allura’s excitement about them, to get her to make the transreality comet usable so they could go into other realities. So Allura has felt betrayed and used before, by her own people.
So when she says this:
Yes, it’s a reference back to how Zarkon manipulated his friends in order to get access to the quintessence field, at the explicit cost of potentially killing his own people. But it’s not without understanding that yes, Alteans can be just as manipulative and betraying as Zarkon. Because she’s experienced it, again and again.
As a matter of fact, six out of the eight seasons of Voltron: Legendary Defender feature villainous Alteans/Alteans on the wrong side of the war, and we continuously see Allura punished again and again for wishing that Alteans still lived.
No wonder she wanted to die.
This is something that I find uncomfortable about the narrative of the show. Previous iterations of Voltron did in fact have a “blood on everyone’s hands” perspective, such as within the ages 16+ Dynamic Comics. However, Arusians/Alteans in those old Voltron narratives were not victims of genocide. VLD turns Alteans into victims of the worst racial crime possible and then also consistently portrays them as inherently antagonistic to genuine peace efforts in some way, instead of focusing on the evil of the oppressors.
And this is such a double whammy for Lotor’s characters as well, given that he was abused by his parents and threatened with slavery via his Galran culture, and that he was half-Altean too trying to connect to his lost culture.
As a matter of fact, the larger show’s narrative interest in “victims as antagonists” makes it such that when we see victims try to enact actual justice, it feels almost jarring. Let’s look at that s8 Zarkon moment you brought up as an example, where Allura destroys his innocent perspective by showing him his evil deeds.
The s8 Zarkon is a weird topic because 1) This Zarkon actually doesn’t exist outside of Honerva’s mind, so how he has any kind of actual free-will is beyond me, unless someone wants to argue that Honerva actually cursed his true soul just as she cursed the other paladins. It’s hilarious too, because Honerva-mind-Zarkon also calls Honerva a psychopath, so I guess now Honerva is psychoanalyzing herself using her dead husband as the vehicle, while also discreetly helping the paladins to stop herself—
ANYWAY, using this Zarkon as a “proof” of Allura’s “racism” is also cherry picking in the weirdest of ways. Is she angry about his horrific and incalculable crimes, including even how he betrayed the OG paladins and ruined his own planet? Absolutely. Does she want him to be aware of his crimes instead of having to pretend like nothing’s wrong? Yes.
But notice here, this Zarkon actually shows remorse. He is actually crying over those memories and recognizing that he had done something wrong. And Allura can work with that. In fact, out of everyone standing around and doing nothing, it’s Allura who gives him a second chance and offers an alliance with Zarkon in order to stop a crazy Altean:
Keep in mind too, Honerva didn’t have memory loss at the end of s8. She knew exactly what she’d done and had given up and had to actually be convinced to do anything halfway constructive. That’s a very different circumstance than mind-Zarkon had, who jumped at the chance to do something to fix what all had happened, and gets even morally righteous about it, calling his own wife a psychopath, lol.
So generally, antis who believe Allura was a racial supremacist haven’t watched the show holistically. We see her hold the same standards to her own people as she expects out of others. This show would look incredibly different if Allura were a true racial supremacist.
Ah, you ask. Okay, so we’ve refuted the big pieces of “evidence” used to incriminate Allura. But what about all of those weird details about ancient Altean history? The violent language-learning program that scared Pidge? The violent terraforming tech that almost kills Voltron? The concept that Alfor tried to play “police” over the Galra and actually blew up their planet? The Alteans’ ongoing discussions of “peace and diplomacy” and spreading it throughout the universe while they happen to sit on a massive load of ancient power?
The s3 finale and other facts throughout the series very heavily smash the claim that our canon, in-universe Alteans were evil colonizers like the AU Alteans. The biggest piece of evidence to the contrary is that the Altea we know was one (1) planet. You counted right. One planet. Not an empire, but a singular planet. The s3 finale corroborates this, showing Altea as being largely isolationist from a military perspective while Daibazaal and Nalquod warred "for generations," right in front of their salad.
So some viewers would have you believe that Alteans were these big bad, intergalactic police state colonizers. But for all of its great power and knowledge, the singular planet of Altea didn't even canonically interfere in the wars of its own galaxy for actual millennia? And looking at the screenshots upon the stabilization of the alliance, Alfor is revealed to not have had experience with a neighboring culture. His face while exploring Gyrgan’s homeworld is an indication that it’s all rather new for him too. So again, we have evidence showing that Alteans were not colonizing or even functioning as a police state.
Note here that in the s3 flashbacks, the show confirms that it actually wasn’t just Alfor who suggested an alliance. All five leaders had common interests in protecting their galaxy from even worse threats, so all five came together at the same time. This is actually the first piece of evidence we have of Altea entering into some kind of intergalactic military agreement to stave off said worse threats.
And all of this is on top of a history where in s6, the Galran Archivist confirms that the Galran Empire had existed before Zarkon for 3,000 years, with times of “expansion.” It’s very easy to see that Blaytz’s people were actively fighting off Galran occupation of their homeworld within this past.
And that’s actually what I think makes Alfor and the OG paladins some pretty interesting characters. Here, we had colonizing Galran empire setting down its sword and accepting the value and space of its neighbors. Here, we had master alchemist Alfor giving up military power within their group by acknowledging Zarkon as the superior strategist. Here, we had Blaytz who had previously been battling Galran occupation…fully accepting the Galra?
So the OG Paladin backstory represents a pretty incredible alliance that removed a lot of intergalactic toxicity and helped heal broken bonds. But it required all five leaders to agree to that. Alfor did not throw his weight or power around within this. There were several checks and balances here.
But this backstory also helps to explain some of the quirky details about Alteans. Their planet existed within an active war zone, and it’s very likely that they’d had to fight off Galran occupation just as Blaytz’s people did. So the violent robot trainers and fear-based language learning systems start to make sense. Alteans weren’t just simpering people playing harps all day and eating grapes. They were actively prepared to defend their planet and their culture.
So when Allura says in season 1 that Alteans were “spreading diplomacy” across the universe, the only pieces of evidence we have of that is the OG paladins themselves, in which Alfor was a big part in creating that alliance—and then possibly the Alteans with the Balmerans, given their deep collective rituals with that planet while the Galra literally just came in and ripped the planet nearly to death. Allura tries to mimic what it means to accept and interact with a culture without changing it well in season 1, when she stumbles through trying to respect Arusian culture and its demands on its people. Also, there is a big fact that antis like to overlook:
The fact is, despite the untold numbers of civilizations we interact with across 76 episodes, no outside race remembers Alteans as evil colonizers. If they were really so big and bad, we would have heard it, like, “Man, yeah the Galrans are bad. Just as bad as those Alteans, back in the day.” Or something. But nope, nothing.
So I heavily question the history of Altea as an ancient colonizing race. If they were, then Altea wouldn't have just been a single planet with limited resources to fight wars in even its own galaxy. All of this supports the idea of Altean children being raised to fight--because they were preparing to defend themselves when/if diplomacy fails.... But the fact that the Balmerans see Alteans fondly and that literally every other race we run into is explicitly suspicious of Galrans and not at all of Alteans says something.
I think the only piece of evidence there might be for a genuinely colonizing ancient Altea is the use of terraforming technology, as mentioned in s4. Haggar discovers it and activates it to try and kill Voltron--and she nearly succeeds, because said tech destroys the entire crust of the planet to reform it. But you have to step back for a second and wonder--if ancient Alteans were so powerful, why was Alfor struggling so hard to even hold his own planet together in the midst of all these other cultures warring and larger threats? If they had this technology--and they did know about it because Allura recognized it right away as ancient technology--why the heck wouldn't they use it? Or were they using it, and it was to reform uninhabited planets to help sustain displaced peoples? Why is it, if Alteans were so terribly bad, we have no record across ANY of the many alien races being cautious of them? Even Galran Lieutenant Lahn snapped at Allura only because he was jealous of the general security she had back on, you guessed it, explicitly Altea. There's a lot of potential explanations for a positive use of terraforming technology, and the evidence against colonization and Altea committing omnicide against other races is incredibly more aligned with the other details in the canon.
And even Alfor’s creation of Voltron and the blowing up of Daibazaal—that’s something that antis like to position as evidence of his police-state ways to underhandedly control other cultures.
So let’s tackle those too while we’re at it.
Honestly, I know people like to hate on Alfor, and I do think his character picks up some misogynism just from the writers....But I don't think he was as much of a controller as people think he was. He was already in an alliance with four other leaders to try and stop bad things from happening in their galaxy. That meant they were expending incredible amounts of time and resources to accomplish that end—resources that were not renewable and may have been straining various planets. We know that he started building Voltron with Zarkon and everyone else's blessing because he called them "clean ships," but it's only after the rift creatures attack that suddenly Alfor's perception of Voltron moves from "clean energy" to "omg we need a more powerful weapon against this unknown enemy.”
So these are his intentions BEFORE he discovers rift creatures are a threat to the universe. While Zarkon states that these new ships are to be endlessly powerful for the Galra Empire, Alfor shames him by offering what his desire is for them:
After the rift creatures nearly destroy Daibazaal, intentions change.
So here, we see the game change in a BIG way. Voltron is not just about offering a more renewable way of sustaining peace-keeping efforts. Alfor is now adjusting and finishing these ships with the explicit knowledge that if they are not powerful enough, then Daibazaal and the Galran people will die. Alfor’s got a LOT of pressure on him now to deliver a mighty and powerful weapon to stop this new threat. So even his creation of Voltron as a superweapon involved using it to protect people from imminent death—not to police them.
And about Alfor blowing up Daibazaal—once again, it’s Alfor trying to clean up Honerva and Zarkon’s mess. Honerva had convinced Zarkon that the rift needed to be wider, and so Zarkon deceived the paladins into widening it.
So keep in mind here, at this point in time—the rift was destabilizing and eating an entire planet. The entire universe was now at stake. Alfor had to choose between a bad fix and an even worse option of allowing everyone to die, but he very clearly evacuated people before destroying Daibazaal, as part of his promise to keep Galrans safe. So that no one would have to die.
And as a matter of fact—about that terraforming technology. How sure are you that Alfor didn’t intend to use it to build Galrans a new home? It’s entirely within the realm of acceptable conjecture that he allowed for the existence of that technology because it could restore what had been lost.
And here’s where the story gets really screwy and feeds into some anti hate. Because when Zarkon wakes up as a zombie, he desires more quintessence as zombies do.
So he’s pissed that Alfor just cut off his gateway, and he manipulates his people:
And it’s here where we get the idea that Alfor was an evil controller. The idea came from Zarkon, who—we can look around pretty easily and see that he was not a man of honor, ultimately. Even if you chose to not believe the s3 finale flashbacks as being objective, there’s something wrong with Zarkon. (It’s clear that the show thought using Coran was a smart way to shell off massive amounts of info, because clearly if this were truly in Coran’s perspective, we would NOT have had intimate looks into Zarkon and Honerva’s bedroom as Zarkon is tending to her, like omg.) Numerous sources, histories, and cultures outside of Coran confirm that Zarkon hit a point of no return on the evil scale, and that he projected his own blame for Daibazaal’s destabilization onto Alfor in order to raise up his new regime in the name of Quintessence™.
So at the end of the day, even Alfor was a victim. But yet somehow, various antis choose to believe Zarkon’s victim-punishing narrative because said antis can’t or else refuse to connect one scene to another since it undermines their justifications for why they can hate on Allura. And that’s not so much an issue with the story itself as it is just poor critical analysis or malicious weaponization of content against other fans.
Now, at this point, we’ve talked about Allura and we’ve talked about Altean history. I have numerous other posts about Allura’s interactions with other races and Galrans and overcoming trauma to give the entire universe a second chance. So if there is anything in this show that suggests Alteans were in any way a superior race, then it’s probably within the show’s own worldbuilding. The show contradicts its own definitions of what quintessence even is by suggesting Alteans have “bluer/purer quintessence” in order to justify why Lotor would even be trying to sacrifice them for anything. The show-championed concept that Alteans have a bluer, purer life force above all other people, and that only Altean energy could interface with the fabric of space-time. Now, this is a problem in the later seasons’ world building itself. And you know who wrote that in? The production team. So once again, we do have racial issues in this show, in ways that shows like Star Wars desperately try avoid by showing racial diversity in who has Midi-chlorians.
That said, I’m not a perfectly woke storyteller either. I think every story and show is going to have something problematic™, but with VLD it’s very clear that its disrespectful handling of genocide politics and shatterglass conspiracy theories, on top of its weird master race angle created the perfect storm. These mishandled and quirky details have created a cognitive dissonance with the provided narrative, resulting in some people in the anti fandoms to champion what aligns very closely to actual neo-Nazi propaganda against Jews, who according to them are not victims but instead the true perpetrators of all bad things. For the sake of the antis, I’m pretty sure they’re not intentionally looking at VLD this way and are probably just looking for any easily graspable reason to hate on Allura for interfering with their ship or something.
But this kind of subliminal propaganda that undermines victims, and the effect it has had on fandom morality politics, is deeply concerning to me. I really wish that we’d had an opportunity to respectfully and critically discuss this with the production team of the show, because a Y7-FV show about “strength in unity” should NOT result in us needing to have a conversation about people walking away with neo-Nazi-ish propaganda sentiments against genocide survivors. Like. Clearly, VLD is fictional, but it’s feeding into a real-life beast that it does NOT need to feed. And it’s keeping alive ongoing conspiracy narratives against some of our most vulnerable populations on the planet.
So, we need better stories. We need a production team that, if they’re going to get paid to do something involving portrayals of genocide and politics, that they need to do their research on those topics. Nobody is going to be perfect with a creation, but VLD validated some very damaging things—and it ALL is something that could have been fixable. I think it would have been incredibly validating to hear the production talk about and accept that these were issues that cropped up unintentionally, and to hear them confirm that these issues are not the sorts of things that VLD was supposed to champion.
The greatest tragedy of all of this is the potential that this show had to really champion some great and validating messages, and the potential that we as a fandom had to come together and do something that fandom was meant to do—which was celebrate the things we love. Because that’s why we’re all here. That’s why this crazy tumblr of mine even exists. It was supposed to celebrate things.
For that reason, I’m going to end this here. I’ve written several responses now as to my thoughts on the inappropriate narrative lens of the show, its contradictory and damaging worldbuilding about the purest race, and how it champions demonizing or punishing genocide survivors again and again. Within all of that, I’ve talked at length about Allura’s character and behavior over 8 seasons and how she built even empathetic connections with militant Galrans like Commander Lahn. In fact even her own homesickness is how she emotionally connects with Lahn, because she understands that desire to call something one’s own. To have a home. A family.
I now really would like to get back to writing stories that I find meaningful to me using these characters and these worlds—and trying to find the hope in all of this darkness, haha. And maybe with any luck, I can hope to do VLD some justice, knowing that I am still on a learning journey as well.
But I appreciate your note, and I hope this very extensive response helps to settle your questions and concerns once and for all regarding VLD Allura. If you should have any remaining questions, please feel free to reach out via a private message to discuss. Thank you!
#Volron#VLD#Allura#VLD Critical#Alfor#Zarkon#Honerva#Lotor#I hope this helps explain my perspective#I think this might have to be my last refutation to the Allura as racist/racist supremacist conspiracy theory#at a certain point#people either watch the show holistically or they don't#you can't convince an anti#so this meta will probably not help an anti#but if you're sitting on the fence and felt drawn in by anti propaganda#then I hope that maybe this post provides an alternate perspective#and one that tries to be more holistically fair to all 8 seasons of the show#and to the intentions and general oversights that can occur during production#Ultimately it doesn't matter if someone likes or dislikes Allura as a fictional character#we need better entertainment that can handle these hard topics and handle them well#And we also need a fandom who's willing to look at all of the information and not weaponize it to specifically demonize and silence others#Maybe a family TV show shouldn't be appropriating conspiracy theories from the Protocols of the Elders of Zion#real-world fans are incredibly vulnerable to such conspiracy theories#and it creates a lot of real-world strife as a result
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3, 12, 23, 24
OKAY I HAD TIME TO THINK ABOUT THESE (thanks you for making this ask game BTW!)
3. What's a scene that you think is underrated?
- 4x19: Adam's funeral and the comment about Sam becoming John (which he takes as a compliment when Dean clearly doesn't). This ep is probably the closest they get to discussing their Daddy issues tbh.
- 8x08: Sam & Cas in the cartoon world, where Sam gives the speech about not running away from problems anymore that motivates Cas to do the same (feel like it gets ignored over the Deancas scenes)
- 8x19 Dean meeting Naomi. THE most twisted villain, the amount of damage she did caused with "I admire your loyalty, I only wish he felt the same"
- 12x10 ending w/ Dean & Sam tell Castiel how much they appreciate him! I love the bickering in this ep but am such a hoe for them just TALKING OUT their issues.
12. Rank the eras and opinions on it (1-5/6-7/8-11/12-15)?
Before I go into it my season-by-season rank is 4, 5, 8, 1, 2, 3, 12 11, 13, 9, 15, 6, 7, 14, 10
1. 1-5: TIGHTLY written, every ep and conflict felt like they mattered and would pay off (and usually did), character and family dynamic development that always felt grounded/realistic. Cons are the misgoyny, racism and homophobia (def don't miss the only female characters being Innocent Mom, Evil Skank or Girl With Knife) but that's the 2000s baby
2. 12-S15: Love the overall tone and the show expanding to include more hunters, allies, universes, etc. Sadly these seasons would introduce the most INTERESTING and COMPELLING concepts...only to do little to nothing with them. Wayward Sisters, Empty, Banes twins, Witch!Sam, apocalypse hunters, death of the author, and (obvs) Dean/Cas. Even Jack! All his relationships were more tell than show, never fully developed on-screen. ESPECIALLY him and Cas! They have 2-3 whole scenes together in S13. Jack's born, but Cas is dead. Cas returns, but Jack leaves. They find Jack, but Cas was kidnapped and then Jack gets trapped. The show just kept following Dean and Sam from crisis to crisis with little room to breathe. The era is so cool in theory and a great playground for fanon, but...ugh.
3. 8-11: Some of THE dumbest writing decisions happen this era, usually to cause manpain or brother drama. But Carver did reign things in a bit with more overarching plots and storylines again, especially in S8 and S11. The trials! Rowena and Crowley! Re-introduction of Chuck! Purgatory! Cas and Claire! Jody and Donna! Sam's "God" visions! The Baby episode! Also nostalgic because this was when I finally got internet access and joined the fandom.
4. 6-7: Besides having a few of my fave eps (Death's Door, Man Who Would Be King, etc.) mostly unmemorable and all over the place. Like, you can TELL they didn't have any idea what to so once they ended the Kripke arc and threw anything and everything at the wall to see what stuck. Resurrected grandpa? Sure! Cas is evil now? Cool! Ancient monsters that can be killed by cleaning supplies? Why not? Wait, we need Dean and Sam drama...right, let's make up a childhood friend Sam has never mentioned for Dean to kill! And give Dean a Reneesmee monster daughter for Sam to kill! We're so good at writing!
23. What are some lores/world building that you love from Post s5?
- The morality of monsters and bad guys. We got redeemed vampires (Benny), witches (Rowena), demons (Crowley), werewolves (Garth), nephilims (Jack), etc. The MOWs are inconsistent but SO GOOD when they take this route. One of my faves is the Shapeshifter in 13x04 who becomes a Grief Counselor to use her abilities to help people
- Purgatory! Love the vibes, the every-man-for-himself energy, how harsh it feels
- The Trials! These crazy stakes! Prophets! Sealing the gates of hell! Angels falling!
- Apocalyse World! Again, the VIBES! Michael vs. Lucifer is supposed feel so world-ending. So to see a world DEVASTATED by their war? Insane! And Apocalypse!Michael was a cool villain, very strategic and focused, knowing what alliances to make and how to make the situation work in his favor
24. What are some lores/world building that you love from s1-5?
- The angels: so cool before they got nerf'd. Perfect soldiers, orders from above, varying levels of cynical, too powerful to be seen by eyes, SMITING! I miss the smiting.
- THE SEALS! I wish we saw more of them but the creativity! The stakes! And Lilith being the final seal remains one of THE best twists!
- The Trickster! I love Gabe as an archangel too, but do miss him messing with the Winchesters to teach 'em a lesson
- Special Children! All of these powerful lonely people who've been weird all their life, thrown into a hunger games where they either kill or survive! So crazy.
SPN Ask Game
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thought it would be a fun ask so top 5 favorite spn season title cards?
OH ABSOLUTELY. thank you for this anon.
(also please do note that i will overly and unnecessarily elaborate on my opinions. all the gifs were stolen from the spn wiki btw)
5. season 9
the broken angel wings how dare they :(( still pretty tho
4. season 5
i vibe with this one so much. the blood. it haunts me. imagine if supernatural actually did end with this
3. season 8
s8 was the first season i watched live and i still remember the way i audibly gasped when i saw it for the first time because holy shit
2. season 11
okay so this one’s pretty minimal but the gold letters are really pretty and i guess it’s okay since it does represent amara being the darkness
1. season 6
okay season 6 sucked in many ways but at LEAST the title card was pretty i mean look at it. the shattering glass makes me feel things (i think it’s supposed to represent the wall in sam’s brain being broken which is also cool)
and oh no i overshared again. i was pretty torn between s9 and s15 for fifth place but there’s just so much to take in on the s15 one that it gives me brain worms
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15×10 meta "I don't know what is god and what's not..."
But maybe now we do. Kind of, anyway.
Warning: Destiel and Saileen positive. And somehow this ended up with a lot of Charlie, not that I think anyone will complain about that.
I've been thinking about this since Thursday. Like, one one hand, Dean's "The blood, the sweat, the tears, man. That's us." Was beautiful, specially if we take into account that a few episodes ago he still was all "I don't know what is God and what's not, and it's driving me crazy."
So I rewatched the entire season (that's why only now I have this) and now I will say what is God and what's not.
(I mean, kind of, I think we will never know the true extent of Chuck's manipulation to avoid even more plot holes XD)
So, first:
Mayor plots we know (or I think) were Chuck's:
The first Apocalypse (Duh)
• Leviathans (I say this bc in one of Chuck's memories, Benny was in the bunker with Dean. Benny means Purgatory, and Purgatory means Leviathans. If the Leviathan are a constant, they probably are part of Chuck's plan.)
• The Mark of Cain (We've seen it like a million times, clearly that's a plot he likes)
• Probably the MoL because it was so bad
The ones we don't know:
• Amara (Like, I do think he didn't expect they would break the curse)
• Jack (I mean, he probably was the culprit Jack died after Micheal took his grace, and that's the reason he ended up soulless. But his actual birth? Idk)
• (Btw I say Chuck's the culprit because I don't understand why Cas would just become human when Metatron took his grace in s8, specially considering que was 100% angel, and he didn't even had a “soulless” problem... I don't know what happened there tbh, he should be kinda soulless? Or whatever. My point is that if an angel 100% can survive having his grace taken, I don't see why a Nephilim (50/50%) would die.)
• Probably AU!Micheal was not part of the plan, because he straight up told them they were just failed drafts. Besides, it was a direct consequence of Jack's birth, and I don't think Jack was part of the plan.
I was about to publish this, but now I have another one. How much of what happens in Heaven is Chuck? Like, we know he doesn't really care for the angels (Ask AU!Micheal), and the main characters are just Dean and Sam. But in this universe, because of Cas, both brothers have been closely related to whatever happens in Heaven. Does that mean Chuck has to intervene there so they don't ruin the story? Probably yes. Honestly I'm dying to know what happened in Heaven with Cas during 15×10 I NEED ANSWERS ABOUT THE ANGELS.
Things that Chuck can't do:
• Like, make someone do anything they don't want in a "mind control" kind of way. He can physically do people do things, like Eileen hurting Sam, but he can't control their mind. If he could, Dean would have killed Jack and nothing of this would be happening in the first place. Individual choices and actions are out of his control.
• He doesn't have power over the Empty, and doesn't know what's happening there. (That means there's no true omniciense)
• (The last point raises the question of how did he brought Cas back so many times. Or Lilith. I'll chose to believe those are continuity mistakes and not that, idk, this Cas is an exact copy of the original Cas and even him doesn't know he's a copy or smth.)
Things that we can deduce are, to certain degree, Chuck's fault.
• Cas constant unjustified absences (This we can assume for 1: "No one even mentions Cas" from Becky about Chuck's writing, and 2: In all the AU we saw as Chuck memories, Cas is never there. Not even mentioned.)
• [Related to the previous point, I think that considering that Cas was in none of Chuck's memories, we must take the fact that he was in almost all the PossibleFuture!scenes (first he was there, then in the car he is mentioned by Sam and Dean, the we had the "Ever since the Mark made Cas go crazy? Ever since I had to bury him in a Ma'lak box?" moment, the next one we can see Dean moving his mouth before getting interrupted by Sam. Considering it was placed next to the prayer scene, we can deduce Dean was praying to Cas. That give us Cas in 4/6 Future moments.) as a sign that this Cas is different to the one in other universes. Maybe our theory that our Cas will be the key to Free Will, as he is special in some way in this universe in a way he isn't in others, will come true.]
• [Although then we need to ask why did Chuck let him live, if he interferes with the narrative]
• Soulless!Jack and Mary's death [Explained before]
• Actually, is possible that most deaths are Chuck's plot.
But in the more particular events, where is Chuck?
In this episode, we got confirmation that the popular headcanon of Charlie making the boys fake credit cards is canon. This ability to have money all the time is important for them not to waste time doing things that 'doesn't help move the plot along' as Garth said.
That could mean that one of the intentions behind Charlie's introduction was exactly that, solve a problem.
And if you think more, Charlie was introduced in a perfect moment and being the perfect character for the job.
Like, we met her when Cas was still crazy, and Dean hadn't really forgiven him, so he kinda was out of a best friend. Enters Charlie, a badass, geeky, nerdy and really cheerful girl. Literally, perfect bff material for Dean. And to make it even better, she was a lesbian, so that automatically cancels any possible sexual/romantic tension that Dean compulsively had with pretty much any female character back then.
[And if I'm right about Chuck not planning Amara's freedom, then Charlie's individual acts of 1: Getting the Book of the Damned and 2: Decodifying it were probably the reason Chuck decided it was her time. Besides, her death pushed Dean to the edge with the Mark.]
All that convenience makes me believe that the people they know do are part of a pre-made plot, but only the meeting. They are only put on the Winchester's way. If we can take something from last episode is that even without their abilities and plot armor, they still have their friends. The relationships they've built are their strength, they are something almost sacred that Chuck can't touch. (As I said, he can't control minds, nor can he control feelings.)
Would you look at that, it looks like Castiel "And maybe Chuck designed the obstacles, but we ran our own race. We made our own move" Winchester (My soul won't rest until someone recognize Cas in the show as a Winchester) was right all along. Shocked.
So, once again, we have everything telling us the most important thing the brothers have is the other people that they love. That is theirs, that is real.
And I also think is important they got that lesson without Eileen and Cas. Because those are the people they love the most (besides each other), yes, but they also are the ones that Chuck have used against them.
Dean's history with Cas has been part of the story, so it was logical that in the middle of his existential crisis, he doubted of their relationship.
And now Sam has confirmation that it's thanks to Chuck that Eileen is back.
Both relationships could feel a little tainted.
With them, it would be more difficult to put aside their doubts. But with good old Garth? He wasn't even in the Possible Future. He's as much as a comfort character as you can get for Dean and Sam. Looking at him all happy and domestic, and yet being by their side when they can't do anything be themselves is exactly what they needed to move their friends and family to the "Non-Chuck tricks" list.
And a little note:
I don't think they just lost their "plot armor", I think Chuck purposely made them average humans. But without Chuck, they wouldn't be average. Dean's been trained to be a soldier since he was 4 years, and maybe Sam had a little bit more of a childhood thanks to Dean, but still he was trained since he was a kid.
And you tell me they can't pick a lock without Chuck's powers? That Sam just runs against everything and falls? Those are things any of us would do, not someone who has been training 30 years more or less.
So no, I do not think they would (will?) be like this when they beat Chuck. Yes, maybe they will be intolerant to lactose, and have cavities and that stuff, but they are still trained, that doesn't just go away.
[BTW I realize half this meta was in parenthesis. Sorry about that.]
Tagging: @metafest @verobatto-angelxhunter @agusvedder @legendary-destiel @that-one-fandom-chick @studio-hatter
#supernatural meta#supernatural#spn s15#spn 15×10#chuck meta#dean winchester meta#sam winchester meta#castiel meta#charlie bradbury meta
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3 7 9 for the spn ask game. Please tag me so I see ur answers @boykingsofhell <3
@boykingsofhell oh man I wrote this whole long thing answering the questions from the ask game I reblogged on jan 10 and then realized you probably meant the ask game I reblogged from you on jan 9. But I’ll absolutely post my other one if that’s the one you meant lmao
3) TFW: Sam, Dean, or Cas stan? I wanna hear your dissertation :)
Sam, because he’s the hottest, and also because he’s done nothing wrong, ever, in his entire life. I just like that he’s sensitive and open-minded and generally just a well-read nerd (which I relate to a lot). And also he’s like, badass, but also a total puppy sometimes.
Also I don’t like to speak poorly of others but Dean is kind of a jerk and Cas makes really bad decisions,
7) What season should Supernatural have ended at? Or was s15 the right place to end? Again, dissertation required :)
I liked seasons 9–15 so I’m glad it didn’t stop before then but I think s8 would’ve been a good ending - the gates of hell are closed, which makes the world a much safer place; Sam goes to heaven after a heroic death; Dean gets Sam’s canon ending where he has a blurry wife and a kid named after his brother; Castiel does NOT make the angels fall and incite a second angel civil war. And who knows. Maybe Cas is Dean’s blurry wife?
(I could never end with 5 because the idea of Sam spending eternity in hell with Lucifer is completely unbearable to me ;n; )
9) What episodes best encapsulates the brother’s relationship? Does this change throughout the series? Doesn’t have to be the best episode btw.
I answered this one with quotes and explanations in a previous ask but I’ll copy/paste my answer again below the cut:
2x22 All Hell Breaks Loose II - “I just wanted you to be a kid… Just for a little while longer. I always tried to protect you… Keep you safe… Dad didn’t even have to tell me. It was just always my responsibility, you know? It’s like I had one job… I had one job…” (Dean gotta protecc Sammy and would rather die than lose his brother. He can’t live without him.)
2x22 All Hell Breaks Loose II - “You’ve saved my life over and over. I mean, you sacrifice everything for me. Don’t you think I’d do the same for you? You’re my big brother. There’s nothing I wouldn’t do for you.” (Sam would rather die than lose his brother too! Which we don’t truly see until 4x09, but. He loves Dean so much.)
4x22 When The Levee Breaks - “Stop bossing me around, Dean. Look. My whole life, you take the wheel, you call the shots, and I trust you because you are my brother. Now I’m asking you, for once, trust me.” (Sam appreciates Dean’s older brotherliness but he wants Dean to treat him like an adult)
5x05 Fallen Idols - “Dean, one of the reasons I went off with Ruby…was to get away from you. … It made me feel strong. Like I wasn’t your kid brother. … You’re gonna have to let me grow up.” (again, Sam is frustrated that Dean feels the need to protecc when Sam’s an adult)
12x22 Who We Are - “I had to be… more than just a brother. I had to be a father and I had to be a mother, to keep him safe. And that wasn’t fair. And I couldn’t do it.” (Dean was Sam’s parent.)
15x17 Unity - “My entire life, you’ve protected me– from Dad, from Lucifer, from everything. I didn’t always like it, you know, but… it’s the one thing in the whole world that I could always count on. It’s the only thing I’ve ever known that was true.” (sorta 4x22 vibes with less hostility. Sam recognizes the levels to which Dean would go and has gone to protect him.)
spn ask game
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