#sort of anti sjm antis as well?
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So it seems that one of the main gripes that antis have about elriel is the way Azriel worded his big question to Rhys. That the way he said it screams entitlement to Elain? I’m going to break this down a little.
"The Cauldron chose three sisters. Tell me how it's possible that my two brothers are with two of those sisters, yet the third was given to another."
I really don’t think anything is wrong here.
Consider how Azriel is for a moment. He is of a more sophisticated character and he talks that way normally. The sentence is structured poetically, yes? Azriel is of a poetic sort, as we have seen on many occasions.
Azriel is referring entirely to the numerical imbalance that is present between the 3 to 3 ratio because that’s what it is. A numerical imbalance. Thats why Elain is referred to as “the third”. Weren’t Nesta and Feyre referred to as the “two”?
But it’s only wrong that he referred to Elain as the Third? Okay.
He wasn’t specifically referring to the sisters individually. He was referring to them alongside his brothers as a group. Of course she is the Third, because that is what she is. You’d think an English class would teach that.
This doesn’t mean that he sees her as an object.
Its quite the opposite that he sees her as such, given the fact that this man -across 4 books- has risked life and limb for her, spent time with her, gave her his dagger for her own safety that no one else has ever touched, actively sought her out on many occasions, and defended her against Nesta and *Lucien? Come on now. Let’s be real.
*Voicing that she doesn’t even want him in the BC is a defense in her stead.
No one does all that to slip under someone’s dress or get into their pants. Across 2 years mind.
The “given to another” line really isn’t serious just like the aforementioned.
She practically was given to another. She was thrown at Lucien, as per Lucien’s pov, since he’s oh so important. The cauldron shackled her to him as he is to her. It’s merely an observation. No entitlement.
The way Azriel spoke about Lucien regarding the blood duel, fighting him and beating him, etc. People think that Azriel is screaming entitlement by merely stating that he’d beat him? Oh lord. After Rhys and the narration confirmed that it was true? Spending precious page space to make that known?
Not entitlement. Merely stating the obvious, an observation just like the rest. A truth that SJM was trying to convey.
And don’t start with the “He’S a HiGhLoRd’S sOn, He’D bEaT AzRiEl.” Respectfully, silence. Highlord power is passed on by the death of the current highlord. Highlord esc dominance ≠ highlord power. SJM spent page space to make the fact that Az would win known, get over it.
Then they have the matter of “well why didn’t he fight Rhys back and confess his love for Elain then?”
There’s three answers I can give:
This is a BC, he won’t do that until it’s in a book that he actually stars in as a main character, which obviously is the next installment.
Azriel, as a person, feels he should not love her. That he does not deserve her. That he taints her very being. And that she is too good for him and Lucien. So that statement would be completely out of character for him to do so here. This man hates himself so much that he feels he doesn’t have the right or reason to fight for his love for Elain. So he won’t.
Rhysand himself.
The explanation on Rhysand:
Rhys shut him down as soon as he walked in
Taunted and antagonized him
Threw wild assumptions at him
Instigated
Threatened him
And then immediately proceeded to shut him out
He effectively gave no room for Azriel to open up. He didn’t even ask Azriel what was happening or what he felt. It was an immediate attack as soon as he walked into the office.
“Are you out of your mind?”
Being shut down instantly
“What of Mor?”
Antagonized and taunted
“you think you deserve to be her mate?”
Wild assumption
“So you’ll what? Seduce her away from him?”
Instigated + assumption
“Snarl all you want. But if I see you panting after her again, I’ll make you regret it.”
A threat
“Get out.”
And shutting him out
After throwing knives of assumptions at Azriel, trying to bait him with Mor, he threatened him and then kicked him out.
Rhysand is at fault for not creating a safe space for his brother to explain. Azriel merely gave him curt answers in response because that’s all he allowed him to do.
It’s only salt in the wound that we know that Rhys knows of Azriel’s self worth/esteem issues and still treated him this way. But given the time this BC took place, I’m cutting Rhys some slack.
Again, keep in mind that Azriel won’t fight for his love because he feels he has no right or reason to. Not right now.
Could his question about the sisters and the cauldron have been worded better? Sure. I think it was worded well enough though because it explicitly states the disparity that he sees in a logical fashion.
Azriel isn’t entitled, he doesn’t feel entitled.
The irony of it is that some people think he is all the while the man feels as though he doesn’t even deserve to be in any close proximity to Elain. To be around her and to see her light.
People fail to consider the emotional and mental state of Elriel, completely ignoring their words that made it so obvious of what they’re thinking and feeling and wanting all so they can determine what they want them to do instead.
Very ironic indeed.
#The irony that surrounds Elriel and their haters is insane#Literally everything they think and feel in the books is interpreted the exact opposite of what they are saying#every damn time#elriel#acotar#pro elriel#pro azriel#azriel shadowsinger#elain x azriel
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what are your gwynriel headcanons/expectations for their book? 💙
I think we'll see Az and Gwyn deal with the Illyrians for sure and he'll eventually make peace with them as they'll eventually come around to the idea of and respect female warriors.
I think Gwyn will call Narben from the sea as well as the manuscript / small book Cassian threw in there and the information written in it will be important for them.
I'm thinking maybe Gwyn will tie Az up with his own shadows (since his shadows seem to respond to Gwyn) for their first time together. Not only does it give Gwyn the control in a situation where the control was taken from her but it fits in with what I think SJM might find kinky.
I used to think maybe Az would be into tying people up with his shadows and maybe he did that with the "lovers" he's taken over the years since we know he doesn't like "hand to hand combat" (meaning he doesn't like anyone touching him during sex) but I wonder if he's truly the dominant type in bed when it comes to someone he cares for. His mother was a servant and that's something he's struggled with so I feel like it wouldn't fit his history to demand a female bend to his will. Dominatrix Gwyn could definitely work 😁
I think Gwyn may end up being a cousin of Eris and Lucien's and she'll want to establish a relationship with them (as she has no remaining blood family) and that will cause an uncomfortable setup for Az who thinks neither Eris or Lucien are worth much (also wouldn't it be funny if the tables were turned and Lucien then wonders if AZ is good enough for his family? 😂) . This could also create a bit of conflict between she and Az which I think will be necessary because SJM has never done friends to lovers without them hitting a few bumps along the way.
Complete headcannon but I kind of love the thought of Az (and not Gwyn like Anti's like to claim) being the one SJM spoke of in SF as having one face while secretly hiding another. That his "beautiful" outward appearance hides an actual monster of sorts that comes out around enemies and Gwyn's song will be the thing that brings him back. That she'll have no problem with the monster being let out of the cage so to speak but she can call him back to her when he's about to lose himself.
I do think Gwyn has siren powers that she will use against their enemies. To me, that has nothing to do with her luring others in sexual way and is more along the lines of Rhys and Feyre being able to control others with their daemati powers. (Feyre was able to force Ianthe to pick up a rock and smash her hand so Gwyn being able to use her song to influence others to say, walk off a cliff, is really no different).
I definitely think there's going to be some sort of showdown between Merrill and Gwyn, that maybe Merrill is a bit of a villain that Gwyn will have to bring down but even when she does, it might be too late because by that time Merrill will have reached out to any remaining Asteri on other worlds and that will set up an even bigger threat to the characters of ACOTAR (leading into a multi series battle done in a multi POV beyond the traditional romance spin-offs).
I think Gwyn will suspect their bond first. She's the first full fae SJM has ever had as a possible FMC with a POV (even Aelin was only 1/4 fae) so she probably grew up on stories of the mating bond like Rhys, Cassian, and Az did. Az is so messed up over not having gotten a bond with Mor and realizing that his two brothers got one with two sisters while Lucien (not a brother) got one with the third, that I think he's completely clueless as to what's staring him in the face.
She'll definitely meet Az's mother though I'm not sure if they'll try to convince her to come back to Velaris.
I think they will end up living in the townhouse together.
I think we will eventually see Gwyn / the Valkyries in battle riding Pegasus but before that happens I think someone needs to figure out how to bring back their food source to the island where the Prison sits and figure out the illness that has prevented them from delivering foals (maybe an Elain plot?).
And that's that. 😂 For now at least.
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By Turns
Chapter Five
The closer Eris gets to his goals the harder he has to work to keep all plates spinning. Tensions simmer underneath his new alliances, pulling him into the Hewn City where the impact of Rhysand’s rule shapes the future.
Masterlist
Find this fic on AO3
A/N: A lot of worldbuilding ahead! And a hint of anti-lower-fae sentiment. A few notes:
SJM doesn’t give us a lot of detail about the magic system in Prythian, especially about the distinctions between the various courts beyond being vaguely elemental/metaphysical. Night Court obviously has darkness powers - the army is called the Darkbringers, so I’ve assumed they have it as well even though I don’t think it’s mentioned in text. Mor has “truth” power and Rhys is a daemati, so I’ve gone with the idea that Night’s specialty is mental influence - secrets, truths, dreams, that sort of thing.
The moon rotunda Aisling mentions is based off of the Whispering Gallery in St Paul’s cathedral.
Aisling’s dress.
“Aisling!”
Aisling turned at the cry of her name, delighted when her arm was swept up by Niamh, a willowy blonde. Beautiful and funny, Niamh was always good company; her cutting remarks and mocking jests about the occupants of the City had sent Aisling into fits of laughter more times than she could count.
Niamh had been married five years ago to Padraig, a rising Darkbringer officer. The match had been arranged by her father and Lord Thanatos, but it was a fair one - Padraig seemed to have seen her natural gifts and rather than dulling her, began sharpening Niamh into a blade, shaping her tongue into a lethal weapon to be wielded at dinner parties and court. The last time Aisling had sat beside the pair at a meal, Niamh had kept the wife of Padraig’s superior well entertained, sparkling like the diamonds she wore. At the night’s close, Niamh had deftly planted hints of another officer’s cuckolding and the lady had listened raptly, drinking in every detail.
The rumour had circulated, tearing down Padraig’s competition, flattering him by comparison. Males had one sort of warfare, females another.
There would be no better companion through several hours of court. Besides, Niamh was a vector of all gossip; Aisling might catch a tidbit from her mouth. Or shape her own, she thought, remembering Eris’ call upon her.
“Escort me, my lady, I beg of you. We must both suffer through court but our suffering shall be halved if we share it,” Niamh said, tucking her arm through Aisling’s. Niamh shone in diamonds - many of them new, Aisling could see - and Aisling ducked in a quick curtsy to Padraig behind them. Niamh dragged her up impatiently.
“Lady Aisling,” he greeted amicably. “You look well.”
“Thank you kindly, my lord,” Aisling demurred.
“Shall we see what delights our High Lord has in store for us?” Padraig offered, sweeping them forward firmly. It was a short distance to the throne room, the heart of the City, directly under the mountain’s peak so high above them. The carved beasts snarled down at them as they passed under its columns, warning all who stepped through, but they were of the City. The beasts struck no fear in Aisling anymore.
The throne room glittered darkly as it always did underneath that great onyx chandelier, the males moving like black wraiths and the females sparkling like frosted peacocks. The marble floor should have been deafening with echoes but swallowed their footsteps and voices - despite its cavernous size, the throne room was always hushed and holding its breath.
The room had seen too much spilt blood to be a neutral place. The air always seemed thick here - with fear, or with fog.
They had only been summoned for court today. No feasting, no balls, just the High Lord and his courtiers. They didn’t hold petitions here; it was only Keir and Thanatos who spoke with them, but the gentry of the City was called to watch regardless. To that end, Aisling had chosen a simple black dress, the neckline cut low, nearly to her navel. The High Lady and Morrigan had set the style of dress with their scandalous ensembles, but Aisling had opted to flout the trend and wore a thick black and gold brocade cape overtop. She was often cold when they were not permitted to dance.
She pulled her hands back within the long dagged sleeves, twisting her onyx and gold ring as the crack of the High Lord and his party arriving shook the throne room. The chandelier flickered overhead. Next to her Niamh stifled a yawn, leaning her head on her husband’s shoulder for a moment. He held her hand lightly.
After the theatrics of their entrance and being made to kneel, Aisling rose with the rest of the court to watch Rhysand take his monthly tilt at ruling. It was always this way: you were silent and watchful while your life was decided, and then you kneeled.
They were far from the throne and dais, somewhat thankfully. Aisling did not dare let herself be anything but meek and silent here, but further back was always better, doubly safe. Thanatos and Keir were summoned forward, discussing the news of the City.
The shadowsinger was there, half swallowed in that unnatural darkness; the general and the High Lady as well. Morrigan, too, shining in blood red and yellow gold, marching to the beat of her own drum. The shadowsinger was the one everyone watched, though. He was beautiful, and dangerous; his face had been carved by the hand of the Mother for beauty and cruelty. He moved with lethality and it always seemed there was something barely leashed in him.
Aisling remembered the last time they were here, when Eoin had been taken to the dungeons. The shadowsinger had moved like a wraith, on Eoin in an instant. She averted her eyes as she recalled the Eoin and the way he had fought against those eerie shadows.
“Oisin Bray is dead,” Lord Thanatos said. He was always cold as stone, slick as ice; his eyes reminded her of the stuffed boar’s head hanging in what was her father’s office. Flat and black and dead. Everyone said his darkness was edged with malice and gave you fear when it touched you.
“A training accident,” Thanatos was saying, stood there before the High Lord and Lady and their courtiers. “Very unfortunate. He was sparring and a blow was struck to his head that felled him.”
The High Lord was sneering down at him, the High Lady’s face a mask of cruel indifference. Thanatos seemed unrepentant, unbowed.
“This is the second difficulty with your legion in as many months, Keir,” Rhysand said, not bothering to address him with his title. He never did. “Is there a problem with your leadership?”
“A problem with boredom, perhaps,” Lord Keir rolled his eyes. “A war would suffice, to let off the pressure. We need such things now and again.”
“You desire more war? So soon?” The general, towering at the High Lord’s right hand, huffed in amusement.
“For the fresh air and sunshine,” Keir sneered. “Unlike your Illyrian dogs, Darkbringers need to kill for such things instead of being born to them like spoiled children.”
The general snarled at that, baring his teeth. Niamh, standing next to Aisling, rolled her eyes subtly.
“They snarl and snap like dogs, too,” she turned her head to whisper directly in Aisling’s ear conspiratorially. Aisling stifled a smile, covering it with her hand.
“I wonder if they’d like to wear collars?” Aisling whispered back, making Niamh cough to cover her fit of giggles. Her husband cut his eyes over to them, gaze dark in a silent warning.
The rest of court passed in this manner; the longer they were there, the more restless with the pageantry Aisling grew. Her thoughts kept wandering to Eris; the feather, his questions. The look in his eyes. As the gentry was dismissed and she left with Niamh and Padraig, she carefully avoided the lord steward’s eye. Perhaps she was being paranoid, she mused. Perhaps Eris was genuine and wanted to court her, perhaps she was making herself as small as possible for nothing and Lord Keir cared not what she did.
How much are you willing to lay on that chance? a voice in her head asked that sounded much like her father.
It was while she was walking back that Niamh’s sleeve fell back to show a glimpse of an elegant pearl and amethyst bracelet in yellow gold. Aisling stared, and Niamh fluttered her eyelashes when she caught her looking.
“Do you like it?” She asked, holding her wrist out for Aisling’s perusal.
“It’s lovely,” Aisling answered, touching it gently. It was obviously not from the Hewn City, or even from Night - the style was too different, too organic. “Where did you get it?”
Niamh smirked at that, acting coy. “Trade secret,” she demurred. Aisling rolled her eyes, knowing full well Niamh could hold a secret as well as a sieve held water. She waited her out, falling silent.
“Padraig got it. It’s from Summer, but he told me he bought it at the floating market.”
The floating market, Aisling mused. Of course. Commerce in the City was tightly controlled; with only one main gate, the Darkbringers carefully monitored who passed in and out, and there were a select few merchants and dealers that were chosen by Lord Keir to do so. Most of what the Hewn City bought and sold was produced by themselves because of this, but what wasn’t came at a premium and was well in demand. For the gentry - such as herself - it wasn’t a problem, even if purchases were taxed twice and exports thrice, to whet each beak along the way: Rhysand, Keir, and the court of import.
But the small number of merchants from outside couldn’t meet the entirety of demand, especially for those not of the gentry who couldn’t afford the dear costs of outside goods. There were supposedly doors where goods came in, places where stolen or smuggled things were sold. Places where even more devious things happened, blood and poison and flesh on offer. The rumours of these places, the floating markets, drifted around the City like will-o-the-wisps; sometimes here, sometimes there, nearly impossible to catch. The markets moved, and supposedly you had to be invited and brought to one, to know the password.
Females, needless to say, were not invited. Aisling had heard there was one every hunter’s moon if you went behind a certain tapestry and crawled through a passage, but had no idea if it was true. Supposedly these were grim, lawless places where the worst of the City plied their trade. She mulled over it in her mind, still admiring the bracelet.
“Lovely,” she said again, releasing Niamh’s wrist.
Aisling felt scattered tonight, mind running away from her in a dozen different directions. It was when she was back in her home, tucked in what was her father’s office, that her thoughts returned to Eris. Truthfully he was never far from them - even several weeks after his visit, he had ensured he remained at the forefront with his little gift.
An idea came to mind. Picking up a pen and stationary, she drafted a quick note, deciding to gift Eris something in return. Perhaps he had only wanted some perspective in truth and this would be the end of it all. But if he was intending to court her, why should she let him dictate the terms? He would grow bored soon enough if it were true, and she would be left with the consequences.
Aisling was of the City. Games were in her nature.
She sat in an armchair beside the cold hearth, only lit by a single faelight. It was easier that way, in the near darkness. She carefully cleared her mind and found that place within herself, somewhere between her lungs.
She had touched Eris, had seen his eyes. She could find him even through the wards. She held what she wanted him to see in her mind, felt the feeling she wanted him to have. And then she thought of him as clearly as she could and the dream was on its way with her breath.
It was easier than she thought it would be to reach him. Normally to get through the wards of the City she had to push hard, but with Eris it was no effort at all.
The moon rotunda in the east wing of the city by the main gate had a walkway all the way around its high carved dome, looked over by paintings of long-dead stewards of the City. She had discovered as a child - playing in the rotunda when she should not have been - that if she stood on one side of the great dome and a friend on the other and they whispered quietly, the stone would carry their voices and it would sound as if she was stood right next to her friend. That was how it felt to dream-weave for Eris; no matter where he was, all she had to do was lean over and whisper into his ear.
Perhaps because she knew what she wanted him to see so clearly. Sometimes she struggled to separate what she was feeling from the feeling the dream should have and they ended up muddled; occasionally she felt as if she had truly been turned to stone and couldn’t summon any feeling for the dreams at all.
Aisling opened her eyes, breathing slowly, ignoring the prickling in her fingertips.
———————
Rhysand kept them under a rock like roaches.
The letter he received that morning was prettily worded, but his mother had taught him to hear what a lady didn’t say as much as what she did. Aisling was courteous and well-mannered but he could mark her words plainly for what they were.
I thank you kindly for your gift, and will think of you gladly and with fondness whenever I wear the hair comb. If the humble game birds of your home can wear such beauty and still be considered a common sight, I can scarcely imagine the splendour of Autumn. I fear the carved stone of the Hewn City cannot compare, but I hope you find it pleasing nonetheless.
As a token of my gratitude, I have sent you a gift. I hope it brings you joy.
There had been no gift enclosed which had puzzled him, but he didn’t spare it much thought until late that night. He had been at his desk until late, working by candlelight on correspondence with several vassals, when the urge to retire to bed seized him with a vengeance to claim the debt of sleep he had accrued. As he lay in his chambers, slumber brushed against his mind with a soft hand, taking him gently and leading him into the darkness.
He dreamt like he had never dreamt before.
The starlit garden he walked through was made of moonlight, velvet and rich against his fingers while light as air, and the night twined around him like a lover. Night-blooming flowers curled against him soft as silk, moths dancing against the stars, and he was filled with nothing but peace. The feeling held him, cradled him, and he drank it in greedily while the darkness swept along his brow and his chest and his legs. He was cleansed and weightless, all his secrets held here between him and the moon which watched overhead like a sentinel.
I see you, the moon sang, just for him. I know you, I love you.
Eris slept so fully in that starlit space that waking was onerous, the weight of duty settling on his chest like a millstone as soon as the dawn greeted him. He craved the lull of the dream immediately; having it ripped away was like being doused with cold water.
Aisling , he thought. The dream-weaver. Of course - she was of the Night Court, whose magic skewed towards darkness and mental gifts, its purest distillation in Rhysand. The magic of dreams and sleeping and secrets belonged to Night, and Aisling was its daughter. For the eye here, she had told him, touching his brow.
What a gift. As surely as she gave him a dream as soft as a kiss, he knew instinctively that she could also weave a nightmare like a chain or a whip, to scour and torture the soul. His mind ticked with the urge to see into the depths of what she could do.
Did Rhysand know what treasures he had stashed underneath that mountain, buried in the rock? He must. Did he resent them so much that he was willing to punish them all and lose that magic? Or did he view them as he viewed the Illyrians, a tool to be wielded whenever he desired? Keir held a sneering disdain for Rhysand and Feyre, which he had always known extended far beyond Morrigan. Aisling’s letter had rippled with longing to be free. The entire court could not be content to live their immortal lives trapped in the Hewn City.
The fifty years under Amarantha had been torture. Not many Night Court fae were there; it was assumed that they were granted more freedoms because of Rhysand’s complicity, but perhaps it was because they were trapped under their own mountain and would simply be trading one jailer for another.
At least they were spared Amarantha’s cruel, stomach-turning games and entertainment. Fifty years had crawled by like molasses for him, tinged with fear and hatred. He could not imagine a lifetime spent in that way, in the dark.
And he had pushed back the date for the Hewn City’s entrance to the whispered-of Velaris, Eris thought sourly. He had done that, and for what? To make Rhysand and his ilk more comfortable . Rhysand would surely find a way to postpone it indefinitely… until he needed the Darkbringers again. He had not seen Velaris with his own eyes, but he was certain it was far lovelier than the Hewn City if it was such a prized secret; Lucien had described it as such.
There was opportunity here, if he was careful. The dream followed him through his morning, and was still on his mind as he sat down at his desk and began to write.
#eris vanserra#eris vanserra x oc#eris vanserra fanfic#acotar fanfiction#acotar fanfic#by turns#my writing
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Elucien; In love or not?
So first of all, I am not an Elucien shipper; I am currently waiting to see what sort of plot SJM has cooked up!
But, when I read Elucien fanfictions (to get more content on Lucien), one thing the bugs me a lot is the fact that some of the writers like to write Lucien as this lovesick person who is already far in love with Elain.
Well, let me disagree with you with utmost respect.
I believe, as humans who have no understanding of the ways of fearies, we are unable to comprehend the real meaning behind a bond. But considering we can guess, here we go:
Even though it was canonically confirmed that the pull of the bond is stronger for males, it was never confirmed that they feel any sort of love; I believe it's more of a need rather than love. it's like a rope, tying them together and even though the rope gives Lucien less freedom to move around, he still can think for himself; so even though he is drawn to Elain, he's not in love with her.
Lucien is a rational person; I believe he doesn't fall fast for people, but when he does, he falls hard and even though the bond is pulling on him, he probably can distinguish between the effect of the bond and the love from within his soul.
They don't know each other; this important point often is brought up by antis but it's important nonetheless. even though I don't approve of Elain's former relationship (Greyson) and believe that she probably was too much of a romantic to see Greyson for what he was, she has grown a lot ever since and she is not going to fall in love blindly this time! And Lucien is too old to fall in love with a person he has never had an actual conversation with before and has seen her a few handfuls of times. So, starting an Elucien fic by a lovesick Lucien is not really a good idea.
If anything, ever happens between Lucien and Elain, it's so slow that it probably makes our skin wrinkled and our hair grey! Those two have a lot to learn about each other and they need to first deal with their own trauma (either separately or together); so, no love for them, until they at least become friends!
I think at this point both of them have trust issues; Elain has lost the love of her life to prejudice against Fea and her human life was ripped away from her just to be thrown into a mating bond situation which canonically we know is a lot to take even for the fearies themselves. Lucien has lost two homes already, had his lover murdered in front of him, was betrayed by his best friend, he was sexually assaulted as a result of that betrayal; he then faced an unwanted mating bond, which considering he believed he had already lost his mate, is a lot to take! so until they find a way to heal through these things, I don't think any of them is going to actually fall in love!
of course, anyone can write anything they want as long as it's not insulting or triggering, and these are just a few musings I constantly have when I'm reading Elucien fan fiction. it's just that I believe the beauty of Elucien's ship is the slow build-up, the mutual friendship and understanding and the agonizingly cluelessness of this two while interacting with each other.
#lucien vanserra#lucien acotar#lucien#acotar#acomaf#acofas#a court of thorns and roses#a court of mist and fury#a court of wings and embers#a court of silver flames#elain archeron#elain acotar#elain x lucien#pro lucien vanserra#pro lucien#elucian#elucien
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hey tabby! 🫀anon here, thank you so much for taking the time to reply and with such kindness at that🥹
>>Gosh, I hope you aren’t disappointed by it—just as a heads up it might be a little slow in parts but I hope you enjoy it :)
First off, Gosh, I don't think I COULD be disappointed by ANYTHING that you write, like honest to God, your work heals me. I'm just having a hard time deciding if I want to wait cbmthy out till it's complete or if I should just start it already 😭 because I know I'll just want to tear my hair off if the latest chapter ends in like a cliffhanger or something.
>>(I loved him being cold, and cruel, and kind of flirtatious 🫢😳)
💯 i mean, sameee gurl sameee 👌🏻
honestly, I loved Rhysand's character soo much throughout the 1st book even tho sjm did not exactly make him seem like a "main" character or one who's on the "good" side in it, and I was even prepared for him as a villain of sorts? like, I don't mean Amarantha or Hybern level of villain, but deffo like badguy with ulterior motives that don't really affect the world in a bad sense but would definitely resort to immoral ways to accomplish said ulterior motives kind of bad? so kinda like an anti hero ig? (sorry if I'm not making sense, it's just English isn't my first language and I didn't know how to translate it best. also, I'm also not very good with words 🥲) which might be why I absolutely loved your dark!Rhys fics, Gods were they amazing, thankyou for writing them luv🤌🏻
>>I never hated Tamlin though
oh I'm so glad somebody resonates with me on this, now I don't know if you still like/don't dislike him after all the books or if you only meant through the first book, but I personally would love to see his character explored a lot more and think there's a lot of scope but for some reason everywhere I see, there's only hate for him(mostly) and I hate that some people judge me(and a lot of other readers) solely on the basis of characters we like/dislike? needless to say, I wouldn't say I hated tamlin either, infact I still enjoy feylin fics a lot even tho I don't get to read very many of them. it's just that back when I was reading ACOMAF I just NEEDED my otp(feysand) to happen fsr lol😅 honestly I don't think I'd have minded all that much if feylin was infact endgame, I'd just have been a little sad is all lol🥲 because how many otps of mine just didn't happen?(😭the answer is in a good high tens)
>>I mean to be fair, I don’t really watch films or tv shows at all anymore, and until acotar I hadn’t read many books so I think I might have been oblivious to those tropes/cliches
I so completely understand this bit, because personally, I'm exhaustingly clueless about a lot of media that people are usually just raving on and on about and it's not usually because I don't want to watch it, but there are these attention deficit tendencies that love visiting me on a regular basis that just won't let me sit down, load a show and watch it till the end😭 I mean, I watched the 1st iron man movie 16 years after it first came out so🥲and it wasn't for a lack of trying, I've been meaning to watch it for the past 8 years or so and I just got around to it. honestly it's a miracle I read all the Acotar books to the end lol
>>Thank you so much for writing in!!
Thank YOU for actually taking out the time to read it AND reply to it, in such detail at that. i truly mean it when I say you're one of the kindest individuals I've interacted with online and you inspire me to pass that kindness on as well.
ps: this isn't exactly an ask but I just couldn't NOT reply to your message, so I'm just glad you read it, you really don't have to reply to it, I'm just happy to have sent this message on it's way.
we all love you, Tabby.
—🫀
‘First off, Gosh, I don't think I COULD be disappointed by ANYTHING that you write, like honest to God, your work heals me.’
😭🫂🫂🫂🫂 thank you so much 😭🧡💛
‘I'm just having a hard time deciding if I want to wait cbmthy out till it's complete or if I should just start it already 😭 because I know I'll just want to tear my hair off if the latest chapter ends in like a cliffhanger or something.’
Oooh gosh, I guess it’s up to you? There’s still a lot of the story left to write—I’d say we’re probably either half or two thirds of the way there in terms of storyline and events that will happen. It’s not going to be over any time soon, basically, which is both exciting and pretty scary 😭
Honestly I think the tension is in the first half, if that makes sense? (Which it probably doesn’t since you don’t know reader’s fate, but 🤷) There’s going to be a ‘half’ chapter which adds in some contexts to reader’s history, but I think after chapter 15, that should be where the tension relaxes a bit? I like to think that in *very* broad terms, chapters 1 through 15 are the ‘hurt’ ones, and 16 onward will be the ‘comfort’ ones? There are still going to be intense moments but she might not have to be on her own anymore (provided she learns to seek help when she needs it)
‘but deffo like badguy with ulterior motives that don't really affect the world in a bad sense but would definitely resort to immoral ways to accomplish said ulterior motives kind of bad?’
Yes! Like I’m happy with how Feysand turned out, but I would have been fine if Rhys stayed ‘evil’ for a bit longer 🫢 just a few more scenes of him being super scary and Feyre being wary of him 🤭
I feel like even as soon as he first visited her in her cell, there was a suggestion he wasn’t that bad? Especially after we learned only one person bet on her winning? Ignoring how acotar characters would write that off as a whim, from a storytelling standpoint that’s a pretty clear way of singling a character out and making them significant 🤭
‘(sorry if I'm not making sense, it's just English isn't my first language and I didn't know how to translate it best. also, I'm also not very good with words 🥲)’
Girl if you hadn’t straight up said English isn’t your first language, I would’ve had no idea 😭
‘which might be why I absolutely loved your dark!Rhys fics, Gods were they amazing, thankyou for writing them luv🤌🏻’
Thank you so much!!! Yes, I have to say there is a certain appeal to writing dark characters, but only if they have a soft spot of some kind for the reader 😭🧡💛
‘oh I'm so glad somebody resonates with me on this, now I don't know if you still like/don't dislike him after all the books or if you only meant through the first book,’
I didn’t hate him in the first book or any other after that, BUT, I did definitely get frustrated with him during the High Lords’ meeting 😭 I kind of wish we got his perspective on that, or at least more about his character? Because Feyre dismantling stability within the Spring Court was quite a brash move I think, and one she might have decided against if she wasn’t having to deal with so many other matters as well as sorting through her own emotions? Because she definitely went through a lot 😭
I guess I feel that Tamlin has a lot of anger in general, which can make him impulsive and volatile at times—like when Feyre first realised she could make a shield in his office—and I’d love to see Sarah explore that more!!
‘but I personally would love to see his character explored a lot more and think there's a lot of scope’
Yes! Exactly!! There’s so much we don’t know about his character and so much potential to spin new stories? Ugh I would love that so much 😭
‘and I hate that some people judge me(and a lot of other readers) solely on the basis of characters we like/dislike?’
I mean, I think it’s made more complicated because of immersion and how emotionally connected some people feel to characters? I was having a conversation about how we all read the same books but it’s interesting there’s such a vast range of opinions? Like some people really hate Nesta, which I can see why I suppose but I personally love her 🧡💛
I think the problem starts when people get too attached to characters that they’re unable to speak objectively about them? I’m definitely guilty of this too though 😭 one of my friends read acotar and was saying something about Az and how they didn’t like him and I straight up asked them to stop because I knew it would upset me 😭 (they did, which was kind of them ☹️)
‘it's just that back when I was reading ACOMAF I just NEEDED my otp(feysand) to happen fsr lol😅’
No I get that 🤩
The tension being set up both in the one bed at the inn scene and the Court of Nightmares moment just made the resolution really enjoyable for me! Not so much the smut part, but when Rhys finds her in the cabin and they end up having a heart to heart, and Rhys tells her more about his history? It just made me feel so happy for them so I know what you mean about wanting them to get together!
‘but there are these attention deficit tendencies that love visiting me on a regular basis that just won't let me sit down, load a show and watch it till the end’
I don’t have it to that extent, but I know that on a smaller scale, I like having music or videos playing in the background while I work? Especially while doing more domestic work like the washing up, changing my sheets, generally tidying etc. it makes the process so much easier, and I won’t get bored of the work or feel guilty for relaxing during ‘work hours’ on weekends
‘I've been meaning to watch it for the past 8 years or so and I just got around to it.’
8 YEARS?? 🫢
Well done for keeping up the determination to actually watch it! 🎉
‘Thank YOU for actually taking out the time to read it AND reply to it, in such detail at that.’
I honestly cannot explain how much I love getting to speak with you. Genuinely, it’s so wonderful being able to interact with other people who like acotar and especially getting to discuss and debate different elements of the story has got to be one of my favourite things about fandom 🫂🧡💛
‘we all love you, Tabby.’
My eyes are prickling for some reason ☹️
Thank you for writing in and taking the time to read through the fics on here ☹️🫂🧡💛
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hey! Aelin stan here, I just wanted to say that i've seen your anti Aelin posts and you make really good points! You're completely correct in pointing out that Aelin should in no way have all the "life experience" SJM throws at her or be able to play the queen card all the time. In my opinion, the root issue is bad writing and SJM's apparent inability to write MCs who aren't some glorified, deified "perfect" being who checks all the boxes ever imagined.
I honestly wish that we saw more of Aelin making her mistakes and having to deal with the consequences. Like yeah, we sort of do, but not in any real way, and I think that's one of the things we as readers in general but also as Aelin stans tend to gloss over. She was rash and impetuous and never seemed to suffer the consequences, and everyone around her backed her up even when they "were mad that she didn't tell anyone her plans." Again, i think a decent part of this is bad writing and a too-heavy relance on the fantasy as opposed to making characters believable, but Aelin was the main main character, she deserved more than being exalted to god status.
thank you for being a voice of critique :) feel free to respond however you think this giant rambling braindump deserves :)
Hi Aelin Stan! I hope you’re doing awesome.
First of all I’m so sorry for taking centuries in replying to this 😭 Thank you very much for taking the time to drop by and leave your question.
Thank you so much for reading my posts! I wouldn’t consider myself fully anti-Aelin, but I include the tag so people can navigate through the content easier and well, because that post, as you remember, wasn’t precisely hyping her up hahah 😅. I do, however, see she has lots of positive traits to her and actually like her, she has a special place in my reader heart.
I agree with you completely! It was most likely because lots of things were going on throughout the series. First, it heavily relied on fantasy, as you say (which is not bad and it’s part of why I loved it) but soon SJM was tasked with
-Generating lore for this fantasy world
-Explain fantastic elements as more characters were added (For example: Introduce Manon= Explain the whole dynamics about witches. Introduce Rowan= Explain the whole dynamics about fae and demi-fae)
- Weaving the characters and making them interact so we had a story
-Developing each character’s arc
- Bringing the story forward making it make sense
-Write romance for all these characters ending with more than 6 pairings
SO IT WAS A LOT GOING ON! And I do admire as a reader the amount of work this represented and how she brought it forward. in the end, the series counts with 8 books and it still left us wanting for more!
At the same time, maybe this was the reason there wasn’t enough space for development, introspection, accountability for Aelin. There simply was no space for this to happen! If Aelin suffered the consequences, as you very smartly mention, it would have required to edit the text and narrow certain elements to have space, or add 2 more books to the series and make it 10 (which I’m personally not opposed to hahah, but we know how editorial publications work and it’s already hard as it is to publish 8 books in a row!)
Perhaps the work got so big no amount of words did it justice. Maybe we wouldn’t have gotten Elide or Aedion. Who knows how it would’ve gone.
Many readers mention in their critiques of TOG the space management (aka: reading and editing to cut out irrelevant parts and make reading more efficient and straightforward) What I can say about it is: I agree, however, SJM is the writer. We must respect as readers that maybe these parts in her mind were specifically relevant to her and helped her build this big fantasy world in her head. Many parts could be left out to make it “neater” but it’s easy to critique when you’re not the one who’s writing.
Throughout the 8 books, I felt SJM’s necessity to transmit. She wanted to take us into the narrative, clarify all of the reader’s questions and she did a commendable job in doing so. However, she did drown in words in some parts. Sometimes you were reading and the narrator was talking and talking and you couldn’t help but think: ???? Why is this relevant? Hahaha
Maybe these parts could be used for the character development we were seeking at the expense of cutting out certain details from the books.
Well, you have no idea how much I love engaging in these types of conversation so I really have to thank you 🥹❤️ I send you a hug wherever you are and you’re not rambling! It makes so much sense! I can see you’re an avid reader 💕
Lots of love and if you ever want to discuss books again I’m here! Promise to take much less in replying.
#throne of glass#tog#aelin galathynius ashryver#crown of midnight#heir of fire#queen of shadows#empire of storms#tower of dawn#kingdom of ash#rowan whitethorn#dorian havilliard#sjm books#sjm#celaena sardothien#aelin ashryver#aelin of the wildfire#anti aelin#pro aelin#just Aelin talk in general hehe
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I have been sort of sitting on this subject because it would be so easy for it to get taken out of context. I hope I can explain myself so that doesn’t happen and I’d like to hear your thoughts. Basically I feel like part of what made Feyre’s character special is what makes her beautiful and I think it gets lost between all the sister anti bs arguments. I do think everyone is allowed to imagine all the characters however they want but I feel like if you go by canon what makes Feyre different that her sisters beauty is her personality. I find it a bit bothersome when I see takes like -certain archeron sister is the prettiest- because canon, physically, Elain is beautiful and Nesta is stunning but what sets Feyre apart is that those that fell into an attraction for her was only after having gotten to know her. I notice Nesta and Elain have this attraction from males almost at first sight and so I think the part that Feyre doesn’t get this sort of story line was what made her unique and I really liked that. In my opinion I think all 3 sisters are attractive in their respective ways- Elain an innocent pure sort of beauty, Nesta has sexy and angry, while Feyre has a mature and quiet beauty. The last part is my opinion, everyone can imagine them how ever but I do think canon sort of gave me the impression about what stands out about Feyre and I feel like it gets lost in the whole mess that is pitting the sisters against each other that is this fandom
hello, anon! sorry for taking so long to respond to this.
this was a very sweet ask! i can see what you mean about feyre being unique in her own ways. personally, i have a preference for the person feyre was in the first book, but i can totally understand you, and many others, enjoying the character she became post-acotar. i love who nesta is as a character because i feel i relate to her more than the others, but feyre's willingness and bravery to stand up for what she believed in, in book 1 was something i admired about her character. and elain's gentle demeanor and clear progression as a character by the time we reach book 2 is something i hope is expanded on more.
i would love if you'd elaborate a bit more on your point of view, as well as if this ask if targeted at a specific post of mine (?) because i'm not exactly an account that's very pro feyre (though i don't hold anything against people who do like her). do you think that i'm a part of the group that fans the flames of the competition between the sisters? in fairness, i can see how my posts could be interpreted that way.
anyway, on some level, i do agree that this fandom has a tendency to vilify and pit the sisters against each other for the sake of their faves. i have seen some absolutely horrid takes on all sides of the aisle, justifying things their fav sister has done and putting down the other sisters in favor of blatantly flat characterizations of them in order to make their anger seem more justified.
but i also think this is a symptom of canon itself being willing to pit them against each other, rather than portraying their flaws and complex relationships in a manner that gives a clear impression that none of them are all good or all bad, but rather flawed and interesting individuals. instead of creating a poignant story on the power of sisterhood, sjm decided it would be better to pit them against each other. this isn't necessarily a bad thing. of all the people in the world, i am the last one that is opposed to drama in books lol, but the way it was done has made things... complicated.
all in all, i think the process of pitting the sisters against each other is a very mixed bag because, on one hand, the archeron sisters' being in constant competition with each other in the fandom is partially due to fans of the specific sisters, but it's also due to the inability of canon to portray a complicated dynamic between them. also, their characterizations can be all over the place. i don't think the feyre we saw in book 1 would've allowed what happened to nesta in book 3, nor would she have condoned the treatment of her sisters even as early as book 2. this could be credited to her evolution as a character, perhaps growing in confidence and vilifying her sisters because of it, but i don't see the sister who felt guilty about leaving them behind when she was forcefully taken from her home as the same sister that let the blatant disrespect of them stretch on from book 2 through book 5. this isn't just with feyre though, as i think the characterization of nesta and elain is also quite finicky and so up to interpretation by the fans.
#anti sjm#sjm critical#anti feyre#this isn't really a critique of feyre#more so of how her character was written#but im going to tag it just in case#astrababyy#astrababyy asks#i'm very curious about this ask because i don't think i've written many posts on feyre that are super supportive of her#i've gotten angry in the past about how her character was ruined#but never really defended her specifically#so if the person who sent this ask ever sees this post#i'd love if they could send another one in clarifying why they sent me specifically this ask#as well as expand on their position a bit more because i find it to be a criminally underrated one in this fandom!
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Hi I am another Elriel shipper that genuinely loves reading you thoughts. While I don’t agree with everything you say I think they are very insightful and thought provoking and I enjoy them . Before I get to my point I just want to say that I am truly sorry on behalf of the Elriel fandom for all the negative that has been going down as of late. As someone who yearns for peace in the fandom and cannot tolerate seeing honest people being torn because of a ship.. seeing this shipwar pains me . I am fairly new to this fandom and I follow many Elriel blogs and pro Elaine and pro Lucien blogs. Some happen to be Elucien shippers too and I find myself gravitating towards them more as people rather than of my fellow Elriel shippers. Don’t get me wrong I still adore Elriel . But I just don’t want to surround myself with certain type of people no longer . My question is , Do you know of any blogs that lean more towards neutral shipping or don’t care about shipping at all?
Hello lovely person!
I'm glad you don't agree with everything I say - I'd assume you weren't really paying attention if you just nodded along like you had a blank smile on your face. I'm sorry the fandom isn't a great experience for you right now. I hope that it changes soon 🤞 In the meantime, ship whatever your heart desires!
These blogs do share similar ships with me, but I know that they either don't participate in the ship war and/or they just vibe. If anyone else wants to recommend their blog as well, feel free! I am not good at going through my dash and I talk so much with people in comments or on discord that I can't remember who is actually active on tumblr.
@cassianandfenrysaremyboyos Lisa and I have been mutuals forever and while we share ships, she's good at just ignoring the BS and doing her own thing
@aelin-godkiller Lou is also a long-time mutual and while she doesn't post quite as much anymore, when she does it's 🔥 she's so smart
@eyllweambassador Ezra is more into ToG, but is a devoted multi/rarepair shipper
@feysandfeels the Lady Lulu to my Lady Lele. She doesn't put up with any anti sjm BS and is a positive space.
@moononastring Yes Gigi is very much an elucien, but she tends to stay away from the drama
@writtenonreceipts lots of fanfic, no drama
@separatist-apologist MB just vibes with whatever she likes in the moment and I appreciate that about her
@gimme-mor is a multishipper - despite being critical of certain portions of the fandom in the past. Can you ask for more?
@ruhncervos Tati just vibes with what she likes
@elains makes lots of lovely aesthetic things
@sjmkinkmeme yes this is my side project with a couple other people, but we only post creative works - no ship war stuff allowed
@tangledraysofsunshine idek if Alex posts that much lol but she is probably the sweetest person you will ever meet in this fandom, and I've known her for a few years. I know. Trust me. The sweetest.
@rayonfrozenwings Renée is the original theory queen
@feyre-cursebreaker Carley always has interesting thoughts
@yazthebookish obviously Yaz has Gwynriel feelings but she has been doing a lot of great theory lately and making posts sorting out all the lore. And if y'all had any idea how much restraint she has shown with this ship war...
and some others for funsies: @darling-archeron @shyvioletcat @starseternalnighttriumphant
I know there are other people who are amazing humans and funny and smart and don't have time for this nonsense, but they may not post much so I might have forgotten to include them.
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I noticed you used to only use the s/jm critical tag but started using the anti s/jm tag recently and I was wondering if you consider yourself an anti and what the difference between the two are if there really even is one. I’m genuinely curious because some people use both and the content seems to be pretty similar (or maybe I’ve just blocked certain people lol, idk) but some people think s/jm critical is better? I want to start posting some thoughts as well and I’m wondering if there are two separate “crowds” or if it’s not really a big deal.
Also I appreciate your abuse analysis💜
Hi anon! You at every welcome! I love to write my analysis 💙
So I honestly use both tags pretty interchangeably and often on the same posts. “Anti” has a negative connotation as someone who harasses people (to oversimplify it), but ofc the whole ACOTAR fandom is toxic so this actually doesn’t matter much here in this fandom. Additionally, tagging anything “anti-“ is also the apparent tumblr etiquette for keeping negativity and criticism and even simple complaining out of the main tags (I guess? I haven’t been on here a full year yet but that’s what I’ve gathered and have seen 90% of the time so that’s what I do anyway.) Unfortunately this sadly holds true for like. Any VALID complaint about these books, such as critiquing the racism or hypocritical discussion of abuse (I got soooo much harassment when I first came on here from people seeing my (inappropriately!) tagged criticism and it was not fun). I don’t harass people or condone it and I don’t attack Sarah personally, so because of the connotation around anti I use the “SJM critical”, BUT again the main way to avoid being harassed myself is to tag things “anti” because chances are that’s the tag most stans have blocked/filtered out. That’s also partially why it irritates me so much when white stans write off all posts in the “anti” tags as complaining or blind hatred for Sarah when a lot of posts are legitimate analysis and critiques of her racism and problematic themes. At any rate… I use both off and on and honestly need a better organizational system lmao. Its a post-sorting-thing mostly.
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"mor should just tell az she isn't into him"
its been five hundred years he can take a fucking guess. and he tortures people for a living why would she want to upset him.
#anti sjm#anti sjm fandom#sort of anti sjm antis as well?#because so many of them hate mor and love az/eris#anti azriel#pro mor
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Normally I try not to be overly controversial in my posts and I do try to stick with what I think SJM would do based on her patterns. I like to analyze the books as they’ve been written rather than saying “well I think this should happen because it just seems the right way to go about it”.
This one sort of goes against all that though because it’s basically narrowing the characters down to their traumas and "what” they are on an observable level rather than considering who they are despite all of that (and acknowledging all the other factors that contribute to their entire self). I also don’t claim that SJM shares this same view. It’s completely my opinion and my opinion alone. This post simplifies things in a way that I normally don’t like to do when it surrounds things that are considered TW.
There are a million other reasons I think Elucien is endgame. They are written in a way that’s beautifully compatible and share similar core values and that’s already enough to convince me. Without that though, Lucien is a SA survivor, a disabled Biracial male, and a sort of Domestic Abuse survivor too (considering Tamlin threatened him with his power on multiple occasions and has also physically assaulted him for no good reason and he experienced abuse at the hands of Beron and his brothers). I’d be surprised for an author to give her MMC a backstory with so many things that are considered sensitive subjects only to have his “Cauldron Given” Mate (the thing that is supposed to be the most sacred to these Fae) reject him for a Male who really doesn’t seem to care whether he kills him or not.
Anti’s always says, “it’s Elain’s choice!” but Elain’s choice could still include her Mate by the end of things. Our choices change as we grow so trying to box her into one decision before she even knows who she is is a bit odd.
And Elain is not the only character SJM cares for. Lucien has been a MAJOR player in nearly every book so he’s not in this series to end up a casualty of one of the FMC. And having Elain reject her Mate who is a SA survivor, DA survivor, and a disabled biracial Male for Az who is not her Mate (and will therefore not be subjected to live the rest of his life feeling the pains of an unfulfilled Mating Bond) would be really disheartening.
In the same vein, Gwyn is not only a SA survivor. There is so much more to her beyond something that happened to her so her story shouldn’t be decided based off that and that alone. But, I do think creating a storyline where the first (non taken) Male she interacted with after her assault was Azriel, where she shows obvious comfort being near him alone though she’s still hesitant to leave the library, where she’s shown flirtation toward him, only to have him end up with Elain over her in the end would read as a little callous towards Gwyn.
Maybe I’m not understanding where SJM is going with everything but to me, she doesn’t seem like the kind of author to put those things into her book only to be like, “sorry, no Mate for you” in the end. She loves HEA (as most of us do) and having a character like Lucien, for the rest of his life, being forced to accept that his Mate rejected him doesn’t seem like her style.
Now, if SJM does go the route of E/riel, I’m not going to come after her with a pitchfork and accuse her of being disrespectful towards those sensitive subjects because at the end of the day, these are fantasy books and difficult things happen to every character. In the end, she’s going to write about whatever felt right for her, regardless of who she wrote certain characters to be or the backstory’s she’s given them. And I get that, she shouldn’t have to base who ends up with who on what we consider morally acceptable.
But for Elain and Lucien to have a happy Mating Bond (which is still a very real possibility)? To have Gwyn and Az share the same? Why wouldn't you want to see that for characters who have struggled so much?
#elucien#gywnriel#pro elucien#pro gwynriel#lucien vanserra#gwyneth berdara#pro lucien vanserra#pro gwyneth berdara
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Azriel's shadows do NOT run from Elain Archeron: a discussion of the text
Please don't share or screenshot this post without credit.
Disclaimer: as always, the following analysis is purely my own interpretation of the text, and may very well be inaccurate. We'll have to wait until we get Azriel’s POV, in his own (shared) book, to find out the truth.
One of the prevailing theories that Elriel antis (and Elain antis in general) love to bring up is that Azriel's shadows run - or recoil - from Elain; that they are scared of her for a variety of hypothetical reasons, and that, at best, this means he could never fully love her or, at worst, she must be evil... especially since his shadows "danced" with the curling breath of another female character.
Like many Elain fans/Elriel shippers, this idea didn't mesh with the understanding that I had of Azriel's shadows, which predated ACOSF; specifically, that his shadows acted to both comfort and protect him - emotionally and physically - when required, in addition to their aid in spying and winnowing etc, and that their in-text disappearance served to suggest that Azriel was feeling safe and secure in himself, if it was not intentional.
So, with that being said, let's have a look at, and then analyse, the quote in question, with the use of other references from the text.
SJM is often very particular in her choice of wording, so our old mate the dictionary should - and does! - help us to sort this out.
"His shadows skittered back at the sound."
Skitter:
To move lightly and quickly.
A fishing technique; to jerk the bait across the water.
When Azriel’s shadows "skittered back," they simply moved "lightly and quickly" back towards him. That is literally all.
The second interpretation, that his shadows were attempting to lure Elain to him, would actually imply exactly the opposite of the theory favoured by most alternative shippers: that Az's shadows do, in fact, like Elain enough to act as his wingmen when it comes to romancing her, and that they are neither put off nor scared of her; it's ironic that a winged male requires a wingman, but I digress. This idea would even be supported by the text - they helped him when he gifted Elain with her necklace at solstice, and appeared to prepare to defend her when she was arguing with Nesta in ACOSF - although, for the sake of this discussion, we'll concentrate on the first definition only, as the second is admittedly obscure, and doesn't seem to fit with other uses of the word "skitter" throughout the ACOTAR series.
It is likely significant, then, that "skitter" has no negative connotations - unlike "recoil," or other variations favoured by Elriel and Elain antis - so, given that Azriel's shadows also "skitter" in a wide variety of situations, including to his own breath (ACOMAF, chapter 29), unilaterally deciding that the quick and light movement that the shadows made in response to Elain's breath is inherently a bad thing is misguided, to say the least, and also potentially disingenuous.
"They'd always been prone to vanish when she was around."
Vanish:
To disappear suddenly and completely.
Become zero (mathematics specific).
Disappear:
To cease to be visible.
It sounds like Azriel's shadows don't actually run away and leave him when Elain is around, rather, they simply become invisible. Once again, assuming that this is due to fear of Elain herself is unfounded, potentially a little biased, and is actually - in my opinion, of course - demonstrably false.
Let's discuss why...
Firstly, Azriel himself told us that his shadows would "always" be with him, earlier on in his bonus chapter. Unless this is meant to suggest that he will eventually lose his shadows in some way, which would negate this entire debate about them preferring one potential love interest over another, I'll take it at face value and assume that his shadows will remain with him for life; that being said, I do think that they will be compromised before the end of the sequel trilogy. His comment suggesting that they cannot be blinded is just asking for it. But back to the point: Azriel mentioned that his shadows would always keep him company.
Ergo, when they "vanish," it should be safe enough to assume that his shadows don't actually go anywhere, without being ordered to do so by Azriel himself (or a higher power - perhaps Koschei?), they just cease to be visible. However, even when faced with Koschei the Death God, Azriel's shadows only hid behind the protection of his wings. They remained visible, kept whispering to him, and did not run.
So, thinking logically, if Azriel’s shadows remained visible around Koschei, the biggest threat in ACOTAR, why would they run, recoil, or otherwise from Elain, of all people? Unless SJM is intending for her to be more fear-inducing than Koschei the Death God himself - the Big Bad of the sequel trilogy - which I highly doubt, then it doesn't make any sense. Of course, if you are attempting to invalidate a ship that threatens your personal preference, you may think otherwise. I understand, nobody likes to be incorrect, and people can and do get very emotionally invested in books and shipping, but it serves no purpose to intentionally misconstrue the text for a ship over which none of us has any control. SJM will write what she has always planned to write, she doesn’t do fan service, and the behaviour of Azriel’s shadows in the first ACOTAR trilogy appears to suggest that their brightening is not inherently a Bad Thing.
Pre-ACOSF, Az's shadows lightened around Mor - his past, unrequited love interest - and Elain, his then future, and now likely, or imminent, requited (and endgame) love. They also disappeared when he was noted to be looking comfortable, or at ease, such as when he was under the sun at the lake, training with Feyre; coincidentally, Elain and Mor both have strong associations with sunlight. Make of that what you will.
At the infamous, pre-war High Lords' meeting in the Dawn Court (ACOWAR), after Azriel's outburst against Eris, Feyre, his High Lady, who is also known as "Stars Eternal" - and remember, the sun is a star - managed to get Azriel to calm down to the point that his shadows "lightened into sunshine."
Further, at the end of ACOWAR, Azriel’s shadows "lit up" in direct response to Elain's smile.
At this point in the series, Az and Elain had met more than once, in the human realms, before Elain was turned fae; they had shared tea in Velaris before the war - again, possibly multiple times - while she recovered from her Hybern-related trauma, and they had also been through the war itself, not to mention a harrowing rescue, together. He lent her Truth-Teller, for crying out loud. No matter whom you ship together, I don't think that it's unrealistic to consider that Azriel and Elain were friends by this point in time.
Both of the above passages from ACOWAR appear to be evidence that Azriel's shadows can and do in fact lighten, or brighten, when able or required, and that it can happen in response to positive emotions (relaxing after the incident with Eris at the HL meeting, and Elain’s statement at the end of ACOWAR, which made Feyre’s "throat tighten" with feeling).
But what does this mean in practise? If we follow this line of thought, and assume that there could be a sliding scale between dark and light, upon which the shadows would fall at any time, then perhaps at some point along this scale, the shadows, or whatever they may truly be, are neither dark nor light, but neutral enough to become invisible - to “vanish” - in their surroundings? The idea of a sliding scale seems to be supported by Feyre’s description of Azriel and Elain exchanging Truth-Teller in ACOWAR: “Light and dark, the space between their bodies a blend of the two.”
Could the right person, mood or feeling, allow Azriel’s shadows to lighten into invisibility, or perhaps beyond, into sunlight? Is there, therefore, some sort of link between shadowsingers and lightsingers, such as them being two sides of the same coin, or belonging to the same Court, one that may be currently missing? I have so many questions - and, as I've said before, I doubt that lightsingers are truly evil - but this deserves an entire post of its own.
This is obviously my personal interpretation, so please feel free to make of it what you will, but in addition to sunlight creating stronger, more defined shadows, shadows should, hypothetically, become less visible as they lighten; ie. they would eventually disappear, or "vanish" (see aforementioned dictionary definitions). Furthermore, if we pay close attention to the wording above, in the post-war ACOWAR quote, Elain’s smile grew, "bright enough" to light up Azriel's shadows on the other side of the room. This sounds eerily familiar to what Cassian noted at the Hewn City, in ACOSF.
I have discussed this passage from Cassian already, but I do think that it's significant that "the brightness" was "leeched" from Elain's face when she was visiting the Court of Nightmares (though there are other interpretations of this scene, and we don’t yet know which is correct). I suspect - though I could obviously be wrong - that Elain's magical abilities, and future role in the Hewn City, are being foreshadowed here. It should come as no surprise, then, that Azriel is also strongly tied to the Court of Nightmares. Could this have been Elain’s innate sunlight attempting to lighten a place that is heavily associated with shadows? Does Elain make not only Azriel feel safe and comfortable, but an entire city - which is really a sub court - as well?
So, given Elain Archeron - spring and sunlight personified - is almost certainly not going to become a villain to top even the likes of Koschei, from which Azriel’s shadows would truly recoil and hide, I feel fairly confident in the evidence-based theory that I’ve just laid out:
The shadows - hypothetically, of course - lighten in response to situations in which Azriel is around those who make him feel either happy, comfortable, or secure in himself, or when he has ordered them to do so, for the sake of a mission, or not scaring others. Sometimes this lightening results in a neutral, or invisible shadow, and at other times the shadows turn into sunlight.
The shadows also move in response to emotional and physical stimuli, such as preparing to defend Azriel, or someone for whom he cares deeply, skittering when a breath hits them (examples include Azriel, Cassian, and Elain), or to help their master gift a rose necklace to the woman he most likely loves.
In addition to the shadows acting to defend Elain in ACOSF, Elain is likely both someone around whom Azriel feels accepted and comfortable - in fact, they have each brought comfort to the other from the start - and also has a power that is compatible in some way with Azriel’s shadows, so she is able to magically affect their place on the hypothetical “light to dark” scale, even if neither she nor Azriel currently aware of it. If they are carranam (a concept from the Throne of Glass series), I will cry.
I understand not gelling with certain characters, or preferring one ship over another, I really do, but to read with the blinkers of bias means that your interpretation will end up being skewed. I admit that I have preferred the idea of Elain and Azriel together since reading ACOMAF - I never thought she'd end up with Graysen, or he with Mor - even though I was happily open to Elain and Lucien accepting their bond until I read ACOSF (though it did seem less likely after ACOFAS). Could my own understanding of the text be weighted towards Elriel? Of course! I freely admit that. But, in my opinion, the text also clearly speaks for itself, and one instance of dancing shadows in a bonus chapter that most readers won’t see shouldn't, and doesn't, undermine three novels and a novella worth of foreshadowing. It's meant to be obvious.
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#elriel#pro elriel#elriel theory#elain archeron#pro elain#azriel shadowsinger#pro azriel#acotar theory#acomaf#acowar#acosf#shadowsinger theory#death and his lovely fawn#dusk court#the hewn city#court of nightmares#eighth court#azriel theory#acotar#night court#shadow theory#acotar 5 predictions#acotar headcanon
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Rant
I totally don’t mind people shipping lucien and Elain and in fact if Elriel not happen, I’m really okay to see how Elucien going to progress and I do enjoy some of their fanfic
But so far SOME (not all) of elucien really is an anti Elain and a Lucien stan first. Like they really hate Elain to the point of dismissing her feelings and her actions towards Lucien is nothing but she’s a brat or a bitch or just a dumb girl who don’t know how to decide. And how she is so cruel towards Lucien because she’s his mate. Like really…
First of all, i dunno how they could hate half of their fav ship. Like why?? If you dont like Elain then why ship her with Lucien??
“Elain need to get herself together to realize how wonderful and kind Lucien is” …
what if the reason Elain does not want Lucien simply because he is not her type?? Why some people think Elain not accepting Lucien is like some sort of scheme or her being blind to the magnificance of Lucien like.. What if she’s just not interested full stop. Why the need to theorize that “oh Elain is traumatize and have this vision thats why she couldnt accept Lucien yet..”
“But Elain treat Lucien horribly, thats why she’s a bitch playing his feeling..”
This is controversial but for me as an Elain stan first, I would say it’s not Lucien is the problem. Its the mating bond. Her being uncomfortable is because of the bond that existed. Let’s say Eris is her mate, she might be uncomfortable to him instead.
“But why can’t she give Lucien a chance? He’s nice and kind to her”
Look the bond is one thing but her feelings I mean her feeling as a woman towards a man is another thing. What if the reason she does not give Lucien a chance is because she likes someone else? And back to my previous first point that maybe instead of Lucien, Azriel is her type? I mean why not because for Lucien his type is Jesminda kind of girl. He said so. He said Elain is nothing like Jesminda.
I get Lucien stan are furious because he’s heartbroken but could you really blame Elain 100%? I mean some of yall are mad because Elain wants to kiss Azriel but what abt Lucien staying in the same house with another woman? Who knows what they do together in the same house? And plus “How Lucien withstood it, I didn’t know. Not that he’d shown any interest in bridging that gap between them.” - ACOFAS
Lucien at least to Feyre, did not show interest in bridging that gap. He has no interest. But is that his fault? NO! And same as Elain, she also has no interested in bridging that gap! But is that her fault? NO! Then why some people only fault it on Elain??
Elain is not Lucien’s type and Lucien is not Elain’s type full stop. Its that simple. The only thing that bind them together is the mating bond. The question is do both of them want the bond at the first place? NO! Let me show you
Elain had been … thrown at him. - ACOWAR
“It means nothing,” Elain said, her voice breaking. “It means nothing. I don’t care who decided it or why they did—” - ACOWAR
Both Lucien and Elain does not want the bond at the first place. For Lucien Elain is just another obligation that had been thrown at him while Elain sees the bond as NOTHING. Not a symbol of love or even a friendship. Thats her belief and people including Lucien need to respect that. And lucky for Lucien since he also dont want the bond so what keeping them from rejecting each other?
They will but wouldnt it be nice if its from their own pov aka Elain’s or Lucien’s book (so we have to wait maybe in 2023 or 2024)
Both of them purposely not rejecting each other because they know the advantages of the bond. Maybe they have their own motive to keep the bond. Alliances? Preventing a greater war?
So that being said, I have nothing against Elucien shipper except some of them that blaming Elain for everything. And I have nothing against Lucien as he’s also the victim of the situation. What if they reject the bond but still find way towards each other? That be great and I hope sjm execute it well
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Some jumbled up thoughts about Elain, Lucien and Azriel + Mating Bonds
There have been a lot of conversations regarding this topic and I thought I’d flesh it out a bit myself, but these are facts/observations that as a fandom many have noticed, discussed, analysed. I just wanted to dive in myself fully.
I want to talk about each of them individually as well as, as a whole. Their emotions and mindsets, as someone who loves all three characters and wishes for all of them to get a happy ending. I will preface this with saying I will be discussing why it is very likely Elain will reject the bond and such things, so along the lines of Anti-Elucien. If you are a fan of them, thats cool, just skip this one if you happen upon it.
We are going to dive in to the following;
Lucien & Elain (their choices)
Lucien & Azriel (contrast)
Rejecting the Bond
New Bonds
Fate & THE POV
and why the writing is basically telling us everything we need to know...
Lucien
Lucien is noble male, he has a good heart and has suffered his plenty, and this is why people want what is best for him, to be the happiest he can... Unfortunately I think that in this case Elain is not it.
He is right to feel that way, just as Elain has a right to feel as she does. I think it is incredibly interesting that when we finally see from his POV we see that in a way he feels as though this has been thrust on them.
That with his last love he had a choice and so did she.
It reminds me very much of this line about Rhysand’s parents, who were an example of an unhappy mating bond.
We will deep dive in to wrong matches further down, but the fact is that mated couples are not always indicators of true paired souls, that they very well could be the couple that do not end up happy together.
I speak on Elain and her agency a lot because I feel like a large portion of the fandom like to discard it as if it means nothing, and even judge her for it but if we actually take a look at Lucien’s behaviour he is not all that more happy.
There are some key differences between them though, Lucien as a male feels their bond to a different degree than she does, and he also has been raised to believe and respect the bond. And thus he feels a certain obligation to honour it in the best way he can.
This doesn’t mean he thinks she is right for him, any further than his attraction to her (which like same dude same), he hasn’t displayed any signs that they actually aline as a couple. And I feel like SJM clearly highlights this when she sets examples of his gifts not being... well right for her.
The gloves we know she never wears show us how little they know each other as she loves to get dirty [which Feyre had told him] and the pearl necklace is then contrasted by Azriels which was very personalised to Elain.
(The rose, the secret beauty of it hitting the light etc...)
These are all deliberate moves by Sarah to showcase their misaligned bond.
And during Elain’s section I will also be pointing out some Lucien moments that really don’t read well for him. I genuinely believe he is much happier amongst the Band of Exhiles than he is when he is seen with The Inner Circus.
Elain
Here is the thing, this situation isn’t any easier on him that’s true but people need to respect Elains feelings, and the fact is she does not like him. Not only does she not like him but she shrinks in on herself, she looses all the progress and confidence she has made since the Cauldron. That is not a good sign of anything healthy.
If this is suppose to be a romance we root for why is she doing everything in her power to make it seem the opposite? If she genuinely was playing the long game she would have at least started to make them comfortable around each other, goodness they don’t even have to talk, but she does the opposite.
She emphasises that he brings out the bad in her. Again, no bueno. She quite simply does not want to be around him and with SJM’s writing I think this is highly deliberate on her part.
[And let’s be clear there are countless quotes from the other books that do NOT reflect well on their relationship but I am trying to stick to ACOSF, as it is her most recent work, otherwise I would be here all day.]
Rejecting the Bond
We have almost a two page discussion on why mating bonds are not an exact science, and that they can be more harmful than good. We are given two examples of it, with both Rhys’ and Tamlin’s parents. And then we get a very subtle hit at Azriel. This is all in the book Sarah said she began planting the seeds for the sisters journeys.
We also know from this there is a choice. But that many force it, because they feel it it right, (much like Lucien is probably doing right now, because he feels a duty and hope that it will work out.)
Then we have the fact thrown at us that a lot of males believe that their mate belongs to them and will challenge the other male, which we now have a call back to with Rhys’ mentioning “The Blood Duel”.
There is literally not one reason Sarah would put this in TWICE only for it never to happen or come close too happening. How anyone can question at this point that Elriel will happen is confusing to me, she has laid all the groundwork for it.
Now I don’t believe for a second that Lucien wouldn’t respect her choice, I think it will most certainly come down to Beron forcing his hand to wage the war we know he wants.
I think despite what Rhys said in Azriel’s POV under immense stress, TNC will protect Elain and ultimately stand by her decision.
Not only does ACOSF spend a great deal of time creating a further divide between Elain & Lucien it also add a shockingly large quantity of easter eggs about “Elain choosing bonds” “Other Mate” “What if it chose wrong?” and again in this book like in ACOMAF we bring back up a failed mated pair to remind you of it’s existence.
All possible signs lean towards them breaking the bond.
And frankly from a storytelling perspective having three perfect bonds that are basically the same overarching love story (enemies to lovers) is boring, she would want to shake it up and throw a little curveball.
Lucien + Azriel & Why I think Azriel will have a bond with Elain.
“If anyone can sense if something is amiss, it’s a mate” And low and behold it is Azriel who figures out what was going on with her. Not to mention in the reveal SJM further displays that Lucien has no clue what was going on with her.
I don’t know what bridge holds their bond but I wouldn’t trust crossing it personally... :/
Further still, Lucien cannot hear her heart. Their bond is definitely not strong but you could also argue that is not an element of the bond at all but rather of her abilities perhaps. Since we know she could hear the sea too though it was nowhere close by.
But Azriel did hear her, he did pay attention and he figured out what was amiss.
It is interesting to me that people took such issue with this when I believe very few have issues with Rhys or Cassian fighting for their respective partners. Now I have gone in to it in depth about how I think that this was pure emotion and illogical on Azriel’s part, and I don’t believe he would kill Lucien so carelessly.
I think it speaks to the same blind emotion a lot of them have displayed for their mates, Lucien may have wanted to see if she was worth it but Azriel knows she is worth the fight.
And for all intensive purposes in that moment he was willing to fight for someone he believes shares his feelings.
Now let’s tackle the whole “Possessive” crap.
First of all, all of the male pairings in this series have shown moments like this, so if it is bothering you here why isn’t it bothering you at other points?
Lucien has been just as instinctively possessive from their bond, and let me clarify, I am not shaming him for that anymore than anyone else. What I am pointing out is the double standard, if anything Azriel has more reason to feel like he can fight for her because she has actually shown him care, interest and attraction.
They have actually bonded a lot more than she has with Lucien thus far.
And if they truly do have an upcoming bond then judging him on three paragraphs when we don’t know what the heck is going on is just ridiculous.
On the same note of that scene, let’s talk about “deserve”
First of all he never said he deserved her, Rhys implied that is what he was gleaning from the conversation and that it is just lust, which we know is not the case. Clearly Rhys perception is not accurate at all so to take his statement at face value and call it fact is a bit disingenuous.
Azriel wasn’t claiming he deserves her, did you read his POV at all?? He didn’t even feel like his hands should touch her let alone deserve her. Please go back and read that chapter again if you can’t see that.
Not to mention I think that the idea of FATE, and believing in hope even when the odds are stacked against you (AKA her having a mate) is actually very consistent with SJM storytelling and Az. Remember this;
The fact that he is hopeful despite the despair of his situation is exactly what people have valued about him. Not to mention after Rhys says this to Azriel he says to them;
So Rhys too believes they were brought in his family for a reason, some sort of fate.
Amren too thinks they are blessed by fate. Why is it so shocking and offensive that Azriel have a little hope that there is a reason they came in to their lives? Because he isn’t with your fav?
Let’s be honest he didn’t exactly get over Mor in ACOMAF, ACOWAR and then even ACOFAS there are slight moments, thats over a long period. Three sisters didn’t just arrive and he went TAG “I want one.”
No, he genuinely grew to care for Elain, and let go of his past, and in watching Elain not find any connection with her mate he saw it as a sign that the Cauldron was wrong, which we know it can be.
I don’t know if people are selective readers but if you think that he doesn’t care for her as a person beyond being a “sister” I don’t know what to tell you, we are not reading the same books.
ANYWAYS back on topic.
I think Sarah has laid a lot of groundwork for her breaking the bond and perhaps choosing a new one. I know not everyone is keen on another bond as they feel her free will and choice is enough, that’s fair and I agree to a point.
I just wanted to analyse the data at hand, and I do believe after ACOSF (I never thought it prior really) that they are mates in some capacity, whether that is because of the Cauldron or something that will occur... I think she has laid enough groundwork for them being Soulmates at the least. Hence why I love the idea of a Carranam bond.
There are so many parallels between Rhys, Cassian & Az that could be taken as little signs but honestly this is long enough I am sure you all want to kill me already for making you read all that hahaha
One last little morsel, it very well might be nothing but Az shouting after they take Elain is an interesting choice, it’s ambiguous enough that you can take it to mean the pain but it could also be another little crumb.
Basically with all said and done I think she will give Elain her agency back and break it.
And potentially something will occur with Azriel as a result but thats certainly more grey than the rest of it.
Thank you for coming to my ted talk!
Obviously, to each their own opinion, have fun and ship whatever you want these are just my thoughts on the text at hand!
(Also I am sorry I got like 20+ messages to get to in my inbox, yeah I kinda ignored everyone and worked on this today, sorry!!! I’ll be back tomorrow)
#elriel#elriel mates#elain archeron#azriel#acosf spoilers#acosf#acotar#azriel x elain#elriel meta#myelriel#anti elucien#anti-elucien
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