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wisteria-lodge · 7 months

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snake primary + slightly burned lion secondary (bird model)

I'm pretty sure I'm a double bird, but I'd like to know your thoughts.

For my primary, the thing that matters the most to me in the entire world is my S/O, he is my top priority

I mean, I certainly hope you mean "top priority [along with myself.]

and I view everyone else as "mattering less" in a hierarchial sort of way. For instance, my best friend is just below him, and everyone else is below her. It's not that I don't like my friends and acquaintances, they just mean less to me *morally*

Interested in where you're getting Bird primary from. Because that sounds pretty Snakey.

(I would never tell anyone they "don't matter" to me though, it's incredibly mean and I care a lot about what people think of me)

Just random people? Not even *your* people. Okay, now we're starting to sound like an External primary. (Bird or Badger.)

HOWEVER, I've gotten the impression that snake primaries have a built moral system outside of "me and my people" that they can drop at a moment's notice when it comes to their people, but I feel like I'm the opposite; I really WANT to be the kind of person who's loyal no matter what, but if my S/O says things I disagree with I have to be true to myself and my beliefs and argue with him about it.

Interesting. You like Snake primaries, maybe even idealize Snake primaries. Because what you're describing is just like... a relationship. A Snake primary might agree to disagree, because in the end it doesn't matter /that much/ to them. But they'd still talk about it.

I can be pretty sensitive with him, but mostly when it's something I believe very strongly for personal reasons, though it can happen over smaller things too. I am willing to listen to his side and understand where he's coming from though, and use subjective language when arguing. And I think about it a lot afterwards, asking myself whether I was right to react the way I did or whether I should have been more mature, whether I was objectively wrong, etc.

Eeeesh. "[too] sensitive" "should have been more mature" "subjective not objective" etc.

You're allowed to feel things. You don't need to explain why you feel. You are also allowed to have a large emotional reaction over something small. (That's why I ask for small, normal, personal anecdotes, examples like that can be extremely telling.) And it just rubs me the wrong way when someone is praised for being mature, or told to be *more* mature. Maturity is a function of how long you have been on planet Earth, and how many decisions you have needed to make while there. That's it. There's no way to bootstrap that, doesn't matter how smart you are. The only way to become more mature is to live more.

I actually spend a lot of time thinking about my actions in general like this. If I come to the conclusion I'm wrong, I'll feel extremely guilty for "not being loyal enough", though I can feel this way even if I'm right, too (I am very hard on myself for no reason). I suffer from OCD, so my morals are made a lot more extreme in my mind, and only apply to me for the most part. So, if I was coming off as unhealthy, that's probably why lol

I can see that.

But, this only happens with my S/O because I trust him so much; I'm not like this around others, tending to stay quiet due to anxiety and keeping my annoyance inside.

That's burned secondary language. "I want to express myself, but I can't. So your two options are speak out (and then obsess over what you said exactly, and end up feeling guilty for speaking out even if you decide you were right.) Or say nothing, and let the annoyance build up. That's one hell of a choice, friend.

I don't think I've always been this invested in loyalty; at some point after hurting the person who was Most Important at the time, loyalty being incredibly important became ingrained in me. But when I was younger, I was a lot more passionate about injustice and got very swept up in the "sjw" stuff, tending to believe whatever I read or was told. My friends would often get annoyed with how much I'd start yelling about something, like incorrect word usage or if someone was insensitive about someone's identity.

I'm wondering if you might have a Lion secondary. You would definitely prefer to argue then keep the peace, and it sounds like when you were younger you were a lot more fiery.

"Tending to believe whatever I read or was told" is young behavior kind of in general, although it hits External primaries hardest. Although this shift from a more Lion systemto something more Snake flavored is definitely something a Bird would do.

And before that, I believed a lot of what I grew up hearing from my mother, about how my bio family only cared about "blood" while she didn't (I'm adopted and grew up not being related to anyone in my family, and therefore have strong opinions on people saying stuff like "real parents" etc). I always told myself that I loved my mother even though it was clear to me that she didn't love me back, and the only way I got out of that situation was finally telling myself that I didn't have to love her and that I had to prioritize myself over everyone else if I was going to get out. I ended up being incredibly stubborn and standing my ground and repeating to myself over and over not to listen to her. Making my own judgements and forming my own opinions came with time and maturity, and I'm hoping my temper continues to dampen and I become better at patience in the future.

This is a story about a Lion secondary protecting you. This, when it really comes down to it, are what Lion secondaries are *for.* That voice that says "This far and no further. I will be stubborn, I will let anything else fall away. It doesn't matter what comes at me, I am just going to repeat what I'm doing until I get OUT." The world needs people like that.

But now you're in a less dire situation. Your Lion secondary is still protecting you, but you need some more nuanced problem-solving techniques as well.

I am closer to the rest of my family now that they have finally cut her out of their lives, because she hurt all of them. Despite her having clear favorites among us kids and having a hierarchy, and me hating that, I do the same thing. I try not to make it as obvious, though.

You're absolutely allowed to have favorite people in your life. You're even allowed to let if effect how you treat them, because everyone involved has a comparable level of power. If they have a problem, they can leave or take it up with you. A child can't do that, which is why treating specifically a child with obvious favoritism is so awful.

(I will note that I've picked up some of my S/O's morals, but only because I care about what he'd think if I did things like kill a bug instead of putting it outside or if I wasted food, etc)

Could be a Bird with a Snakey system. Could also just be a Snake.

I would say that, between abandoning my morals and abandoning my people(/person), that the latter makes me feel way more guilty.

You definitely seem to have a kind of complicated relationship with Loyalists, and Snake primaries in general. On one hand, your mother seems to be kind of a toxic Snake, and you want to make sure that you never do hierarchies in the way that *she* did. On the other hand, you kind of idolize Snakes and wish that you were a Snake, or a better Snake. You also say some things that sound kind of Bird primary, sure. But you say a LOT of things that sound Snake.

Here's my take on you. I think you're a Snake primary who spent some time kind of burned. You might have even done a controlled Burn on purpose to get away from your mother - that is absolutely something that Snakes do, and honestly it's often pretty healthy as long as they don't *stay* burned. I think that when you didn't trust your Snake you built something that felt a little more *constructed,* and you are still at a place where you think you should be a better Snake than you are (which is something I see with slightly burnt primaries.) I also think that in the places where you look really Lion is probably just your secondary getting loud.

I am pretty selfish with people when I first meet them; I often only want to engage in my own interests, and only start caring about the other person's interests and becoming more selfless once we grow closer and I see them as important to me.

Don't beat yourself up, this is just people stuff.

However, I admire people who are able to just care about everyone and be so selfless and loving. I genuinely have no idea how they do that; I have no interest in loving absolutely everyone, I just think it's very impressive that they can. I feel like they are better people than me.

It is honestly very classic for Snake primaries to think that Badgers are Just Better.

As for my secondary, I used to be more impulsive and bad at planning ahead due to a combination of immaturity and ADHD.

I feel like I'm not very good at originality and creating new things, but I AM good at taking something and modifying or improving upon it. I am often thinking of ways I can make something that's meh or already pretty good and make it even better, and will end up fiddling with it to accomplish this. This includes image editing, messing with Tumblr themes, adding things to recipes, etc. I've also learned a lot of things and picked up new skills by doing this!

This is a very Improvisational way of talking about problem solving. Lions and Snakes will often talk about wanting something that they can *respond* to, and can easily get stuck when they have to begin in a void.

I dislike lying, especially when it comes to myself, but I do tend to have "different" sides I show depending on the person I'm interacting with. I am fully myself with my S/O, and mostly myself with my best friend, and everyone else gets a watered down version of me.

This is the Lion secondary "dimmer switch" or "volume dial" metaphor. There's you, and there's slightly toned-down versions of you.

It depends on what I think they're expecting of me or how I want them to perceive me, and I may exaggerate certain parts of myself a little, but I don't l pretend to be something I'm not. And I'm making an effort to be more Me and embrace myself more after putting myself into a box for a long time.

Good. I think that's going to be really good for you.

But, after moving out and getting older, I've had to hone my ability to plan ahead and prepare for things to avoid potential problems, or just make things easier for future me. I am often thinking of plans which usually involve more abstract, unusual ways of going about things based on what is available in terms of skills, resources, people I can ask for help, etc. I've also heard that "collecting shiny people" is something bird secondaries do, and that's something I'm super known for and partially plays into the "hierarchy" stuff I mentioned earlier. I love learning about people and analyzing them; personality typologies are actually a huge interest of mine! and I love being able to know and read people.

It sounds like after moving out you built yourself a lovely Bird secondary model that you really enjoy. Good for you.

I think that's all I have to say. Thanks and hope you're having a good day!

You are very welcome, and I am having a nice day.

#snake lion #lion secondary #snake primary #bird secondary model #shc #sortinghatchats #wisteria sorts #sortme

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writingonesdreams · 2 years

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Sortinghatchats - Suits

Have to do the sorting for the show I'm obsessed with for the past week - the legal drama Suits. Check out @sortinghatchats and @wisteria-lodge for explanation of the system in detail.

Suits is an amazing character dynamics study, fuled by relationships and personal conflicts, with the legal world drama cases as interesting and intelligent backround, testing the characters, pushing their limits and their loyalties to the brink while keeping a light-hearted banter tone.

Let's start with the most prominent influence character the legal world is apparently turning around, the famous lawyer legend Harvey Specter. Harvey represents the best of the double snake sorting - he is charming, confident, self-serving, enjoying luxury and wealth his job gets him. He is obsessed with winning, with walking away from every situation as the top dog and getting the deserved credit for it. And he is sneaky. You don't meet a better schemer than Harvey, who will get you one a space between lines, who will convince you he will lie even though he would not. Who can switch from being the serious trustworthy lawyer for the business meeting and the funny playful tease at work, to the predatory confident blood smelling shark at court. Changes faces like his suits and enjoys it. He is in it for the game of it all, and he is the greatest at it.

He is also a solitary player. It gets noted several times in the show that Harvey is successful, feared, famous, envied,...but he is not popular. His colleagues don't get along with him, he doesn't care about the team, his subordinates or his peers. He doesn't remember anyone by name, and if he can tease and sneak, he will do it to his colleagues too. Harvey has a very narrow circle of friends. Like a snake with his chosen people, he has exactly three during the whole show, and he would stick his neck out for them anytime. It's incredibly endearing to watch how the charming sneaky predatory ruthless lawyer in 12.000 dollar suit gets feral over loyalties. Harvey is all about loyalty, it's his greatest value and treasure, something he showers his people with - whatever they want it or not - and something he demands right back.

The show lives of his dynamic with Mike Ross. Mike is a young genius, a directionless university dropout with eidetic memory who sold out his ability to pass Harward law entrance exams. By completely coincidence, while running from trouble, Mike gets in an interview with Harvey, tells him everything, impresses the legend...and gets hired as young concipient in training. Boom.

Mike is special, because Harvey recognizes him as special and gives him a chance. Everyone around Harvey notes immediately how uncharacteristic it is of him to care about someone AND to do it so quickly. Mike becomes Harvey's person in record time that leaves everyone's head spinning. At first Harvey sees potential, and fun and an easy way to get nasty detailed work done, but he also sees himself in Mike, and this gets him protective like crazy. Harvey doesn't show emotion, that he cares, cause in the world of business and law, that's a weakness. Hell, he has trouble showing this to Mike, who he is hard on, testing and growing him to be better, to make his own way, to make his choices....while going around making threats and biting people's heads off, if they dare stand in Mike's way. It's sudden but also gradual and so heartwarming, how protective he gets of this little lion. This is the juiciness of their dynamic. That Mike is a Lion Badger and he gets adopted by a ruthless scheming Double Snake.

Mike is a hard worker. He is defined by his attitude of chipping away at big tasks, by working his skin off, by making friends and connections through being reliable and maming effort. Harvey likes to find shortcuts and different angles, Mike works his way through 100 pages to find one line of evidence he can give Harvey to use against the clients. Textbook badger secondary.

Mike has a roaring lion primary. He centres around morals, an emotional core and very strong opinions about what's right and wrong. The series shows numerous instances of this. He feels bad about sleeping with a married woman, cause it's "wrong" (not because he is hurting somebody in particular). He gets inspired and passionate about pro bono casds and when he smells injustice, cause he wants to be helping to "make things right". It's also what draws him to Harvey - that through all his arrogant and well-deserved competence in scheming and risky games, Harvey never cheats, lies or goes back on his word. His boss might walk on the edge of the law, but never crosses it. This is very important to Mike. During the mock trail at the firm, everyone doubts Harvey aside from his boss Jessica and Mike, who argues that Harvey has "principles" so of course he can be trusted. He doesn't get others don't see the side of Harvey he appreciates the most.

Mike suffers having to live in a lie. He gives up on his relationship with Rachel, because if he can't tell her his secret, it isn't "right" to be with her. He hated making a living through cheating on tests, proven also by the vigiriosity with which he threw himself at the quantum of difficult annoying law work and research. Because it's finally a good kind of work he can be proud of. The compassion and sympathy he offers to all his clients feels right and fulfilling.

Harvey calls him naive and idelaistic and soft, but only in private. He praises him into the heavens in front of everyone else, so no one has doubts how capable Mike is. You bad mouth Mike or look at him wrong and you get Harvey on your tail like a bulldozer.

Harvey complains it's ineffective and emotional, but he likes Mike's paragon moral lion. He admires him for it. Mike gets emotionally invested in the people, not the case, money, reputation or profit. He comes to Harvey with sense for justice and genuine concern, and Harvey let's himself get dragged into it. Their best cases are when Mike finds the unfairness, offers the compassion and the hard toil, while Harvey uses all the strings, tricks and schemes and his years long experiences to help him win the game. Slowly Harvey develops his moral system around Mike. If Mike says it's right, he will throw himself at the case. He mentions Mike is much better a man on occasion, because he admires him that much for the compassionate kind of work he partly tries to beat out of him to be a good lawyer and partly revives in himself, when around him.

Where Harvey adopts some of Mike's lion morals on top of his own, Mike builds a snake model solely for Harvey. Mike is not usually a person to be swayed by affection for specific people. He acts according to his morals, what's right and wrong, no matter how much that hurts the person he is supposed to be protecting. But Harvey gives him a chance, a job, a new life, guides and projects him, risking his career so Mike could do work he loves without the diploma and licence and Harvey wants loyalty, so that's what Mike gives him in return. Undying absolute loyalty. Mike buys his grandma a flat, not because he misses her or is sorry he hurt her by his absence (that too ofc) but mainly cause it's right thing to do. He turns on a client who turned out to be lying, cause that's not right. But Harvey gets priority over fair treatment, his own cases, trouble from Loius, from better offers, from other useful friendships. Mike turns every advantage into Harvey's favour smooth and automatic, and this earns him more and more protectiveness from Harvey. Harvey is the only person he doesn't turn against, even when he disagrees or feels it's wrong. Harvey is the person he would lose everything to protect. But it's a model he only got for Harvey, and it confuses his other friends, especially his on and off girlfriend Rachel. Harvey is put above her multiple times. It isn't right to be with her, when he can't tell her he is a fraud, it's not comfortable for his lion primary - so he wants to tell her and Harvey says no. It's too risky and too early to know whether Rachel wouldn't betray him. So Mike doesn't give the love a chance to grow, he breaks up with her and longs after her, but putting Harvey at risk for his secret is not something he can do.

Mike gives the schemer solitary charming snake compassion and something to protect, and when the lion badger becomes the double snake's person, it creates a duo heartwarming to watch, who tag at each other and overwhelm anybody in their way.

Jessica Pearson is the leading partner of the Pearson & Hardman law firm. She built Harvey up. Harvey is basically her Mike - she found a talented postman, paid for his Harvard degree and got the most loyal right hand man for her efforts. Harvey dazzles and fights and schemes in her honour, and she can't always control him cause Harvey doesn't like orders or limitations, but he always has her interests in mind and that is enough. They call Harvey her "pitbull" in the show and they are both proud of this. Jessica is a snake primary that shows up a lot like Harvey's. She likes luxury. She is the hedonistic enjoyed of money, opera dresses at work, and she only cares about her firm, married it over her husband, never had other family or kids. She is absolutely loyal to Harvey, and fine with manipulating everyone else. She favors him so obviously Louis and other other partners never get over it.

Jessica is a lion secondary though. A talented and brilliant lawyer alright, but she likes the posturing. The power. Being able to break through everyone with a straightforward "bend your knees to me", when she walks into their office. She does this to rivals as much as to her own subordinates. When she is at risk or at court, Harvey has to keep her from spilling the truth or going all out with everything she's got, cause that's not by any means the most effective evasive or profitable way his snake secondary came up with. Jessica doesn't want to back down, doesn't like the backhanded schemes and deals, she wants to power through.

Jessica doesn't allow people into her circle after Harvey, understands and syncs with Harvey's snake morals and loyalty, trusts his secretary Donna, cause she is Harvey's alright. Mike confuses her. It takes time to get used to Harvey expanding his circle without her permission or knowledge (quite possessive of him). Harvey shows her Mike and says "he is mine now, so take him too" and she just blinks and stands, and understands so she can't fight it, but she doesn't like it much either. But the parallels are obvious. Harvey's protective wings over Mike with his "if he goes, I go" mirror Jessica's over Harvey, when Hardman tries to kick him out. She is ready to lay down all her cards for her pitbull.

Louis Litt is the badger primary on deck who just wants to belong. He breathes for the firm. He rises the younger assistants and lawyers in training, guides them, bullies them, controls their mistakes. Louis just wants to belong and doesn't understand why he can't be part of Jessica and Harvey's "group". His competence, loyalty, insistence get him nowhere, cause these two are snakes and each other's people and Louis just can't get there with his group based thinking, no matter what he does. Louis feels undervalued, yearning for Harvey's acknowledgement and hates Mike with passion for jumping the ranks and becoming Harvey's overnight, something he never managed. Harvey sees his belonging flattering servile motives as "pathetic" and treats him quite unkindly. Jessica is trying to be more open and accommodating, but she can't expand her circle to him for some reason. Harvey is her world, there is no helping it. Louis in return, backstabs. Gets vengeful, scheming, petty and gives them hell. This makes me think of snake secondary. Sneaky playful snake enjoying his revenge and all the little ways to get back at Harvey, to punish Mike, to get around Jessica. But in the biggest crisis, he chooses them, since in the end all the revenge and backstabbing is him lashing out he can't belong to the group he chose.

Whike Jessica is a queen snake lion, being loyal and royal and massive, Donna Paulsen is a playful double snake secretary with her life wrapped around Harvey and then ranks people according to their importance after him. She doesn't have probelms adopting Mike, as he is Harvey's person, or be Jessica's ears and eyes, cause she is also Harvey's and she likes Louis, cause she recognizes he just wants to be Harvey's too and can't manage. She loves Harvey romantically too, but can't say it, cause he doesn't say it, and she is stuck with that for a long time. Her playful snake banter and ways are very fun and charming to watch.

Rachel Zane comes off as selfish, whiny and emotionally manipulative. Or maybe that's just her trying to use her beauty and sexuality to play around with Mike and get her way on the surface. Constantly guilts Mike into prioritising her and doing what she wants, demands his attention and his favour, getting spiteful when she doesn't get it. She tries to win over Harvey in Mike's heart and can't, not until she realizes that to win Mike over she can't be making him choose. I'm considering lion primary for her, since she wants to be important and special, suffers for not having a law degree and being a simple paralegal with no way up, and she isn't quiete about it. She hates that lawyers with degree get better treatment, when she is smarter and more experienced than them. Why it takes her so many seasons to go after the degree she wants, while burdening everyone down with her unhappiness and complexes, I have no idea. Rachel has a talent to make everything about her, even though she is just holding everyone back. Maybe that victimhood and not minding consequences as long as she gets what she wants makes her an exploded lion. Also the high ground moral speeches, the "wrongness" of some things she feels instinctively speak for a lion primary too.

Her methods are very lion too. Straightforward, honest, running you through with her arguments, valuing truth and clarity over effectiveness and logic, can't keep a secret, says and acts on what she feels, consequences be damned. And maybe that's why this double lion struggles so much in such a snake oriented firm. Everyone is picking and backing their people like snake primaries, while she just barges against walls, all loud and ineffective, cause raw emotions and just anger don't get you nowhere in the schemer snake sec world of the law.

Maybe that's why she obsesses over Mike so much. She smells resonance in his lion primary, in his emotional and moral motivations to help. He wins her over through arguments like helping someone, noble causes, not putting her interests above others. And that's why it confuses her to no end he has such blind snake model loyalty to Harvey, who is a double snake through and through, a person she loathes and doesn't get and doesn't want to get at all.

It's interesting how Mike, who is the main pov character, gets thrown around all these sortings. Double snake Harvey and Donna adopt him, Louis's badger primary tries to integrate him and then throws him out, cause Mike belongs somewhere where he can't, Jessica understands the snake loyalty, but her lion secondary is building an army he can join or fall off and Rachel's double lion resonates and is sympathetic, but in the end her lion ways are too loud and destructive for him. He builds a snake secondary for the law schemes, but he is the most comfortable in his proper caring toiling badger secondary, and he inspires and gets his morals from his lion primary, with one snake primary model exception for Harvey.

Harvey - Snake / Snake

Mike - Lion with Snake model for Harvey / Badger

Jessica - Snake / Lion

Louis - Badger / Snake

Rachel - exploded Lion / Lion

Donna - Snake / Snake

#sortinghatchats #suits #analysis #tv series #sorting suits #double snake #lion badger #snake lion #badger snake #double lion

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jewishregulus · 2 months

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happy birthday james potter but unfortunately you will not be seeing this until the day after bc the birthday sex regulus is providing you is going to consume most of the next 24 hours . good for you though top that twink!

#regulus black #marauders era #marauders #james potter #jegulus #snake in the lions den #do i want this in the public tags #where am i

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batcrooks · 7 months

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the elevator pitch for this is "a Toy Story/Night at the Museum-style educational series that teaches kids about art history"

they probably wouldn't let me have the tits-out minoan snake woman but that's ok

#illustration #my art #from left to right:#bastet #dogū #minoan snake goddess #colima dog #jizo statue #mesopotamian winged lions #i made the sketch for this back in 2020 and was too afraid to finish it #i dont think it ended up how i wanted it but im glad it ended up somewhere

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woolblossom-archive · 9 months

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#age: 21 #2022 #digital #webkinz #computer #lion #cat #dog #puppy #google #bird #snake

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bebs-art-gallery · 2 months

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The Lion’s Triumph Over the Python (1919)

— by Herbert Thomas Dicksee

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starsarestories · 9 months

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When Regulus goes from thinking of James as "Potter" to "James" in his head and then accidentally calls him by his first name out loud >>>>

#snakes and lions #marauders era #marauders #slytherin skittles #james potter #regulus black #jegulus #starchaser #sunseeker

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artofmaquenda · 7 months

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Some recent artworks :D

#artofmaquenda #frog #slug #snake #spiritual art #anthro #sekhmet #queer #mushroom #amanita #lion king #watership down

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life-imitates-art-far-more · 1 year

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Salvador Viniegra (1862-1915) "The First kiss of Adam and Eve" (1891) Located in the Museo Del Prado, Madrid, Spain

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facts-i-just-made-up · 9 months

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Snake Island has no snakes whatsoever, but is completely overrun by lions. It is named for the famous lion hunter Edwin Snake Jr, who was eaten there, by birds.

#snakes #lions #birds #birdemic #unreality #im watching a movie called snake island where people go to an island called snake island and are shockingly attacked by snakes #like what the hell did they think would happen

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mysharona1987 · 1 year

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Not even getting started on the 5% to 6% of Americans who genuinely think they could take on a gorilla or a grizzly bear unarmed (So that many Americans are totally batshit insane!?)

But this many British people really shouldn’t be afraid to fight a goose.

#Animals #birds #bears #nature #elephant #lions #Snakes #gorillas #wolves #kangaroo #Crocodiles #usa #britain

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wisteria-lodge · 10 months

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snake primary (bird model?) + unBurning lion secondary

+ bonus mini-sortings of Wednesday Addams and Indiana Jones

Hi! I really enjoy reading about the SHC system, and decided to write a structured SortMe submission (at last). My Secondary is what I’m struggling a lot with. As a kid, I was very bossy towards friends, and could not stand not being the leader of my group and leading the games we play. I loved making up games based on this video game/book series/tv show to play with them, and there was A LOT of improvisation (following my whims).

Well, little you sounds like a pretty classic Lion secondary.

My group broke apart later due to me being too domineering. Later, I moved to a country where I couldn’t speak the language properly and became quite withdrawn, shifting into an introvert completely (still am). Regarding friends, I went along with whatever they wanted to do, almost all of the time. I had one really good friend though, but I maltreated her kindness by reverting to my domineering self around her.

Huh. Well, it sounds like your secondary burned. "Domineering" is an extremely negative way to talk abuot a Lion secondary, and well... I can't help but think there was a little bit more to this friend-group break up, especially since you were the "bossy" leader the whole time. You're talking, basically, about your Lion secondary not "working" anymore (not being able to speak the language would contribute to this) and that's a burned secondary. So you get quiet, you get passive, because doing more than that feels risky.

In high school, I was the furthest thing from leadership, and shifted from group to group, never liking any groups or the idea of groups. Those who aren’t close to me would say that I’m shy (I would disagree - I’m just not good at communicating with people I don’t know well, or multiple people at a time). A close few (mentor included) would say that I’m opinionated.

There have definitely been some Loyalist (snake) primary vibes so far. Your really good friend, your mentor, wanting to join groups but that not really working as a long term thing for you.

I really enjoy talking about what I think and what I believe with my mentor, as well as abstract ideas and philosophy, but rarely with my friends because I don’t enjoy arguing about it with them. I stopped caring about social media and maintaining social connections, unlike most of my peers, because the connections felt too temporary, and yielded little rewards for the time I spent. I do enjoy spending time with friends, but there are friendship issues popping up all the time (fickleness and selfishness- I’m seeing the selfishness in people clearer now).

I could see this a couple of ways. Like this could be a slightly hedonistic Burnt Snake. You want those Snake connections (and not the more Badger-style ones, which don't feel like enough to you.) But, they seem hard to come by, so you've been editing. You've got someone who is on your wavelength, and you're getting more philosophical and internal.

Of course, this could also mean that you're a Bird in the process of building a (less social) system. And who could be more important in that process like a philosophically minded mentor?

I now spend my spare time (non-studying) reading fiction, playing video games (immersing in a different world), delving into systems such as MBTI, SHC to learn more about people, and reading game guides (stat optimisation, etc. REALLY ENJOYABLE).

So we're having fun with systems, which generally means some Bird somewhere.

Now I am literally the opposite of the description of Inspirational secondaries - especially Lions. Regarding problem solving, I find it hard to think of situations (searched google for ‘examples of problem solving’). I feel like the problems that I’m involved in are almost always solved by others, and I can’t offer anything valuable.

This is extremely burnt secondary talk - I *can't* solve problems. I promise, if you play video games, you solve problems.

Once I broke a certain rule (for about the third time) and was going to have something taken away the next morning. So during the night I thought about what I knew about that person (doing the deed) and tried putting myself in their shoes, and what I could say and what responses it could yield. The preparation made me feel better but I barely used any of it the next day — I reacted to what the person said and ?adapted? and lied (with a heart rate of 200 or so) and was successful in preventing them.

So... you did the Lion thing, and it worked for you. It sounds like when your secondary burnt you did build a Bird secondary model (stat optimization guides - very bird primary.) The Bird is a toy, a support system, and it can make you feel less anxious.

I think when I’m really desperate and have no time to prepare for a serious problem (to me), I resort to lying. However, I don’t lie often and would even be actively honest in everyday life to improve my “reputation”

It is a Lion secondary thing to not like lying, and do it as little as possible so as to build up a reputation for not lying (or to want to do that, anyway)

and prevent anyone from pointing out my lies and judging me.

Hmmm. Who's judging you? Who's thinking you're a bad person? Where is this coming from?

Whenever I’m stressed or under pressure, I become really unresponsive and appear emotionless. In conflicts with others, my mind often goes blank and I just let them speak,

This is just a human thing. Fight/flight/freeze/fawn - you freeze.

because I can’t say anything clever enough that won’t be shut down.

Again with some external force coming down on you. This might be part of the reason your secondary burned.

I really, really envy and admire Snakes who shift based on the situation and are able to create masks (I’m just like a rock).

It sounds like you're a Lion secondary who doesn't really like the idea of being a Lion secondary.

I also envy Lion Secondaries but feel annoyed by them - like how can they be so honest and straightforward?

It is really, REALLY normal to be burned and find un-Burned annoying, naive, impractical.

If I experience conflict with my parents, I almost never argue (because I can’t beat their ”logic” - which is: “you’re my child, you can’t argue with our authority”).

Got it. You've got some authoritarian parents who shut you down. Sorry to hear that. No wonder you're struggling with some of this stuff.

I recently watched Netflix’s Wednesday, and I really admire the protagonist’s quick thinking and speedy comebacks. I felt that she didn’t need to be so straightforward and blunt, but it was… so cool. She had no problem TALKING BACK TO PEOPLE. Ideal me would have razor sharp wits backed by an abundance of knowledge (rapidfire Bird or Snake) (but alas).

Wednesday Addams is a very loud Lion secondary. I suspect she's a unBurning Snake Lion - which is a sorting you might want to consider for yourself. She is extremely protective of the handful of people she considers Hers - her character introduction where she drops the piranhas into the pool because the swim team was bullying Pugsley could not be more Snake Lion. But she has trouble finding people who *get* her (to the degree where she's started to think that those people don't exist) - and that's burnt Snake. We also see her Lion secondary coming through in her problems with her mother - Morticia adores her life, and she's sending Wednesday down the same path she took, which Wednesday resents. She values the Lion secondary authenticity too much. She wants to be *herself* and make her *own* calls, even if that means she fails.

I was reading about neutral states, and I wouldn’t say I have different personas for different people and situations. Generally, the less close I am to a person the more polite and quiet I’ll be.

the "dimmer switch" Lion secondary metaphor

However, I notice that if I’m spending a decent amount of time with someone one on one (almost never happens in a group), then I’ll revert back to my neutral state (unconsciously). There are some boundaries, though (e.g I can never sing or dance in front of any of my friends, but I do it all the time at home).

Hmm. So when you trust someone... the lion comes out? That's good.

When studying, I want to make sure I cover all of the points (objectives) that will be tested. I never study/revise for something that isn’t going to be tested (too extra), and I rarely study without outside pressure (upcoming DEADLINES) for something that I’m not interested in, even if it would benefit me in the long term. I like having a frame to work with, and going on from there by myself. I quite often create plans (timetable, study timeline, exercise…) but almost never fulfil them due to laziness and lack of motivation. The more detailed it is, the more I hate it.

You have a Bird model... which you think you're supposed to have... and which you kind of hate using for this stuff. And you're definitely using adrenaline to hack your brain into doing non-preferred tasks

The only time I remember completing a planned goal was the Nanowrimo 50k novel in a month challenge - where I stopped halfway but picked it back up and got to 50k words before the month ended. I like having that “you can write whatever you want but as long as you reach a word count, and even if you miss a couple of days it’s fine”.

This is good information. You like your frameworks to be loose, you like room to pivot - write one bit today, another bit tomorrow, you're not feeling it the third day, and that's fine.

I have never made a really difficult decision, but generally speaking I would weigh the pros and cons of each choice and kind of imagine what would happen if I picked that. HOWEVER, from experience life never goes the way I try to predict, and doing that is kind of useless :’)

Spoken like an improvisational secondary. And honestly, in a philosophical way I agree with you... but my Badger still wants to make those plans anyway.

I would also ask the people around me for their thoughts on the matter to build more perspectives and cover my blind spots.

Very smart, just for problem solving in general. Probably means you're not a Lion primary though... who kinda like to make important decisions without the static of other perspectives.

Regarding fantasies (my favourite part of this submission), I like to imagine myself as a mage who studies in a grand academy filled with intricacies and travels to investigate ancient ruins and magical places with close friends/intellectual equals. I would work on discovering the arcane mysteries of the universe, weave poetry and art about bygones (heavily LOTR inspired). The close friend is pretty prominent in my fantasies (snake vibes?) but also is a search for adventure and meaning. Real-life based fantasies are generally snake secondaries and other-world based fantasies generally bird.

Your fantasy is to be Indiana Jones (but also a wizard, and an artist.) That's a pretty Lion secondary fantasy. And I know you didn't specifically name-check Indy, but I suspect he's a Snake Lion as well. I will admit that he does look like a Bird primary a lot, but that's because his People are generally safe/offscreen. When he DOES have to choose between them and the arcane secrets of the universe - he chooses his people. UNLIKE his villains. Lot of Bird primary villains in that franchise.

I love playing RPG games A LOT (Zelda, Dragon Age, Genshin). I’m more into the exploring aspect than saving the world, but I become attached to individual characters along the journey.

... like Indy :D

I’m not a big fan of warrior types of characters in fiction, such as She-ra (Badger Lion) uniting a rebellion to fight evil — I instead relate to Entrapta (Double Bird) who doesn’t really care about the conventional good vs evil and would go along with joining the Horde if that benefitted her cause. But I don’t have her impressive collection of knowledge on what she’s passionate about (tech). To a lesser degree, I also relate with Catra (Double Snake?), who cares about individuals much more than groups and doesn’t understand She-Ra/Adora’s goal of fighting for the good and for the people. But I definitely don’t have her flexibility and smarts in problematic situations.

I would definitely check out the SHC Podcast She-Ra sorting... especially because they make a very good case that Catra is only modeling a Snake secondary, and underneath she's a burned Lion secondary.

I feel powerful in a situation when I’m thoroughly prepared…?

Do you really though? You talk about being super prepared as being annoying and stressful "kind of useless" and something you "barely use."

But that almost never happens and is quite temporary because don’t like thoroughly preparing for a situation, and anything unexpected can throw me off completely. Like this chess game I played (I’m horrible at chess - quick thinking and meticulous planning - enjoy it though and wish I was good), where I planned this sequence of moves to make to win, but the opponent kept making unexpected moves and I would become fixated on my sequence and, well, lose.

It sounds like you think that you should have Bird secondary... and so have a Bird secondary model that doesn't seem to help you much.

I’ve taken the SHC quiz several times and have gotten both Lion and Bird Primary (Lion more often, but I’m quite convinced of being a Bird).

Bird is still very possible - you haven't talked about your primary much - but I would definitely consider Snake. From what I've read here... I've been getting Snake.

I’ve tested as every Secondary (burnt?) because I found the questions hard to answer.

Yeah, definitely Burnt. But there's a Lion secondary under there, and you're in the process of unBurning, especially around certain people.

Thank you so much for taking the time to read my overly long submission (filled with brackets). It took me a couple of days to think and write and cut out sections, and I kind of have a vague idea of my sorting and how you’ll sort me — looking forward to reading your analysis though. Sorry about the unnecessary details in advance. Have a nice day (or evening)!

You're very welcome, and you did a great job writing this.

#submission #wisteria sorts #sortme #sortinghatchats #shc #lion secondary #burnt lion secondary #snake lion #snake primary #bird primary #bird secondary model

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