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imakemywings · 9 months

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Analysis of Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth

The Athrabeth is one of those things which spawns endless fandom discussion, but a lot of it seems to misunderstand what's going on in Andreth and Finrod's discussion, which is understandable. There's a lot going on and the language can be difficult. Athrabeth serves two purposes: 1) on a meta level, it is Tolkien exploring the differing fates and beliefs of the peoples of Middle-earth; and 2) on a textual level, Finrod is both having a cultural exchange with and seeking to comfort Andreth about the loss of Aegnor, his brother whom she loved. The two discussions are necessarily tied together, because Andreth's bitterness and anger over the mortal fate of Men (which she believes to be unnatural, imposed on them by Melkor) is tied into her feelings about losing Aegnor.

I want to focus on the relationship we're shown between Andreth and Finrod.

The Cultural Exchange

Finrod first engages Andreth, a wise woman among her people, in a conversation about the beliefs and mythologies of the Beorians. I have often seen Finrod criticized for being condescending here, and while I suppose you could read that attitude into it, I don't. When Andreth accuses the Elves of condescension, of considering Men beneath them, Finrod agrees with her:

"Alas, you speak near the truth," said Finrod. "At least of many of my people; but not of all, and certainly not of me."

He freely admits many Elves wouldn't bother with Men because they do consider them "creatures of less worth." But Finrod is among Men, asking questions about their culture and their belief system, because it interests him. From the very beginning, the story tells us Finrod's interest in Men and their culture is genuine, whether or not Andreth believes that.

Finrod (son of Finarfin, son of Finwë) was the wisest of the exiled Noldor, being more concerned than all others with matters of thought...and he was eager moreover to discover all that he could concerning Mankind.

And he seems to respect Andreth as a keeper of her people's knowledge, even if he doesn't always agree with it. The story very much sets them up both as respected individuals among their peoples, with even the Elves acknowledging Andreth's intelligence and knowledge:

[Andreth] was wise in thought, and learned in the lore of Men and their histories; for which reason the Eldar called her Saelind, 'Wise-heart'.

This exchange between them has always come off as one of deep respect on both sides, to me. It is precipitated by Finrod's grief for the death of Boron, a lord of the Beorians, and his struggle with the seemingly short lives of Men. He and Andreth compare the views of the world of their respective species and share beliefs that each side has in the nature of the world.

A number of things Andreth says Finrod knows are false, because he grew up in Aman, he's met the Valar. But even where he challenges her assertions--such as her belief that Men were not always mortal, but were made so by Morgoth--it isn't done with some effort to triumphantly prove her wrong, but rather advising caution or offering a different perspective.

"Beware of the chaff with your corn, Andreth! For it may be deadly: lies of the Enemy that out of envy will breed hate. Not all the voices that come out of the darkness speak truth to those minds that listen for strange news."

And there is a deep bitterness and resentment that arises around the notion that Morgoth robbed Men of their rightful immortality. It absolutely comes through in Andreth's tone throughout Athrabeth. It must be very easy for mortals to perseverate on this rather than taking mortality as the natural state of being and processing it through that lens. Andreth resents that she is mortal, and she sees her mortality (imposed on her by Melkor) as the reason she could not have Aegnor.

Andreth and Finrod like and respect each other enough to have a discussion/debate like this and still consider each other a friend at the end. Further along, Finrod even suggests Andreth may not be entirely wrong, but is deeply troubled by the notion that Morgoth could be powerful enough to do such a thing. In short, he is listening to Andreth, and while her assertions may not immediately make sense to him, he considers them and how they might impact a person's view of the world.

Andreth too, allows for some flexibility in belief:

"You speak strange words, Finrod," said Andreth, "which I have not heard before. Yet my heart is stirred as if by some truth that it recognizes even if it does not understand it."

While each of them already has their own ideas about the world and their species' relationship with each other and with death and hope, they listen to one another. They aren't simply arguing to prove themselves right--they are having a genuine discussion (which necessitates being willing to oppose each other on some things). Amid the discussion on mortality and the nature of death for Elves and Men, she says this:

"Hope, that is another matter, of which even the Wise seldom speak." Then her voice grew more gentle. "Yet, Lord Finrod of the House of [Finarfin], of the high and puissant Elves, perhaps we may speak of it anon, you and I."

There is some culture clash between them, as some of their views and beliefs are mutually exclusive, but although their discussion gets emotional at some points, it never, to me, feels mean or disrespectful. Here was a clear spot for Andreth to cut off the conversation if she felt talked down to, or upset, but instead she encourages it to continue. They may occasionally get intense with their discussions (Andreth does shed tears at a few points)--and Athrabeth implies in my view that this is not the first of these cultural discussions they've had--but they still like each other.

And that is part of the key to the Athrabeth for me--they are friends.

In the days of the peace before Melkor broke the Siege of Angband, Finrod would often visit Andreth, whom he loved in great friendship...

He comes to her in friendship, and goes out of his way to speak with her about the end of her relationship (whatever it was--the text isn't clear on that) with Aegnor. He opens this talk by asking her about things Andreth is known to be knowledgeable about--paying respect to her wisdom, and regarding her intellect highly enough to even have such a debate. He wants to understand her perspective on the world, and it does shape her reaction to her relationship with Aegnor.

Finally, Andreth, for her part, seems like she would be more than willing to tell Finrod to fuck off if she didn't like him or didn't want to talk or felt like he was being an ass. This is not a soft-spoken person; she is very upfront with Finrod when she wants to be. The fact that she continues to engage him both in the discussion about Mannish beliefs and about Aegnor suggests to me that she also considers him a friend, or at least that she feels generally amiable towards him

Explaining Aegnor's Choice

The other big criticism of Finrod that seems to come out of Athrabeth stems from this effort, which often seems to be a misunderstanding that Finrod is making an argument that Aegnor made the right choice, which is not at all how I read this discussion.

However, before that, I do want to say: Aegnor was not wrong to leave Andreth. There is, to me, an uncomfortable fandom attitude that Aegnor was obliged to stay with Andreth because she loved him, or that he somehow wronged her by choosing not to be in a relationship with her. No one is obliged to be in a romantic relationship they don't want, no matter what the reasons are. That Aegnor loved Andreth does not mean he was forced to be with her. There were other considerations in his life and I don't think it was invalid of him to place those first. Neither is it invalid of Andreth to be bitter about it--especially considering where she starts this discussion.

Andreth, early on, still believes that the reason Aegnor left her is because she isn't an Elf--that she isn't immortal. She talks about how she wouldn't have made herself a burden to him in her old age, how she would have only given him her youth, etc. She is 48 at the time of Athrabeth.

"I was young and I looked on his flame, and now I am old and lost. He was young and his flame leaped towards me, but he turned away, and he is young still. Do candles pity moths?"

You can see here her anguish over her own mortality, which ties irrevocably into her anguish over losing the love of her life. What Finrod tries to tell her is that it was nothing about Andreth that ended it. Aegnor's decisions were not based on his feelings about Andreth or her mortality, but on various cultural factors among the Elves (such as their disinclination to marry during wartime) and his obligations, in his mind, towards the war against Morgoth. Finrod tells her that "if his heart ruled" Aegnor would have run off with Andreth, but that he chose to put his duty above his desire for her.

"Adaneth, I tell thee, Aikanar the Sharp-flame loved thee. For thy sake he will never take the hand of any bride of his own kindred, but will live alone to the end, remembering the morning in the hills of Dorthonion."

He isn't trying to say "Aegnor made the right choice" or "Elves shouldn't marry mortals" but he is trying to give her context for a decision that's already been made. Aegnor is already gone; Finrod is trying to relieve Andreth of feeling that it was somehow her fault, or that she didn't live up to Aegnor's expectations.

"Then why did he turn away? Why leave me while I had still a few good years to spend?"

"Alas!" said Finrod. "I fear the truth will not satisfy thee..."

Here, he gives the explanation about customs of the Eldar and marriage, and about Elves and memory (specifically about how Aegnor, as an Elf, may prefer to dwell in the happiness of their memories rather than proceed to a grim future). Andreth does not seem especially comforted by this. It's understandable. Andreth is very bitter, and not unfairly: She's bitter that her people are mortal while Finrod's are not; she's bitter that this mortality (in her mind) cost her the man she loved; she's bitter that Aegnor left her. Andreth's life has been hard: it's very understandable that she's angry about it. So it makes sense that Finrod's words don't really reach her where she is now. She isn't ready for that; she's still dealing with all of these other feelings. But I do believe that someday, this conversation will mean something to her. Someday, when Andreth is older and has more distance, I think it will mean something to her that Aegnor loved her, and that it was duty, not contempt, that kept him from her.

Finrod does express belief that marriage between Men and Elves is destined to be sorrowful, but this isn't an illogical position from the half of the equation doomed to live on without their partner, or from one of a species who may literally die from grief. Naturally Andreth thinks of how she could have spent her youth with him at least, while Finrod thinks of how much pain Aegnor would have been in as Andreth grew old and neared death.

"I would not have troubled him, when my short youth was spent. I would not have hobbled as a hag after his bright feet, when I could no longer run beside him!"

"Maybe not," said Finrod. "So you feel now. But do you think of him? He would not have run before thee. He would have stayed at thy side to uphold thee. Then pity thou wouldst have had in every hour, pity inescapable. He would not have had thee so shamed."

It is also relevant that they both speak, on this matter, in ignorance. Neither of them has experienced or even seen a marriage of mortals and Elves (none occurs before Finrod's death in Tol-in-Gaurhoth). They are both speaking only from the heart, from what they feel would be true about it. It's also relevant to remember the decision has been made. Finrod is perhaps trying to explain how hard the marriage would have been in part to make Andreth feel better about its nonexistence, because he knows Aegnor will not go back on his choice.

And on some level, Finrod sees that he isn't going to radically change her view on this one visit, and that's when he backs off.

"And what shall I remember?" said she. "And when I go to what halls shall I come? To a darkness in which even the memory of the sharp flame has been quenched? Even the memory of rejection. That at least."

Finrod sighed and stood up. "The Eldar have no healing words for such thoughts, adaneth," he said... He took her hand in the light of the fire. "Wither will you go?" she said.

Athrabeth ends on such a tender note, it has always in my mind contributed to seeing the conversation as an overall positive: that Finrod looks forward to seeing Andreth after death, that he places himself--almost tentatively (and what is the meaning of that em-dash, Tolkien?)!--alongside Aegnor in her future. He knows her time on Arda is short, compared to his own, but he doesn't want this to be the only time their souls have together. It ends with his holding her hand in her grief and giving her this blessing:

"Wither you go may you find light. Await us there: my brother--and me."

This is why I've always seen Athrabeth as such an intimate conversation which speaks to a deep level of friendship and respect between Andreth and Finrod. It deals with a lot of emotionally volatile things, which I think makes people inclined to see either of them (Andreth especially) as upset by the conversation, rather than the issues that they are discussing in it. But to me, again, that they were willing to have such a raw, open discussion with each other speaks volumes about how positively they see each other. They are so clearly trying to reach out to one another from two very different places in the world.

"Yes, Wise-woman, maybe it was ordained that we Quendi, and ye Atani, ere the world grows old, should meet and bring news to one another...indeed, that you and I, Andreth, should sit here and speak together, across the gulf that divides our kindreds..."

"Across the gulf that divides our kindreds!" said Andreth. "Is there no bridge but mere words?" And then again she wept.

They don't always make it, and sometimes they wound, but they are trying. And that counts for something.

#Finrod #Andreth #The Silmarillion #meta #mine #okay I did it #this is really only concerned with the relationship between Andreth and Finrod #not an analysis of their actual beliefs #tolkien tag

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tanoraqui · 10 months

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I love your world building! Your name ideas are awesome. Love the idea of Indis being a true prophetic mother name

-@outofangband

Belated thank you! Also, sharing my thought process on that one because it's a very classic Silmarillion headcanon origin: it bothers me that Indis's name means "bride." I hate how it reduces her to a feminine trope - at "best", only here to have a troubled marriage; if you're a staunch Fëanorian, a femme fatale homewrecker. I immensely dislike how this is, in fact, an fairly accurate description of her role in the story...

Which is deliberate on Tolkien's part! The "canonically correct" way to ameliorate this misogyny (though neither erase nor excuse it) is to remember that this whole text is a mixture of history, legend and myth passed through multiple storytellers over thousands of years, translated and re-translated and interpreted through the eyes of elves and men and hobbits and men again, until even if this person ever actually existed in the history of Middle Earth - IF! - "Indis" probably wasn't even her epessë, much less her commonly used name. Probably her name got ink blotted on it at some point, or mixed up with someone else's name, and the next Númenorean scholar to rewrite the text followed the Archetypal School of historical interpretation and decided to name her "Indis" because of her role in the story...

But this, too, bothers me. Because I love the framing device of these various books, I love the historian-given dubious canonicity of literally every detail of The Hobbit, Lord of the Rings, and especially of The Silmarillion. But! We need some solid canon upon which to hang all our headcanons, so it's imperative to retain a delicate mental balance of knowing everything could be made up (more than it already is by being fiction!) while also adhering to as much as possible as something that Really Did Happen - and names are pretty solidly in the latter category. I mean, everyone has multiple and for those who don't, we tend to make more up, but a belief in the basic premise of the text is necessary in order to function in any fandom, and "names of characters" is pretty "basic premise."

So it's impossible to ignore that her name is Indis; and it's impossible to ignore that the name "Indis" is closely connected to her place in the narrative, more than most characters, and that said place is uncomfortably non-feminist - you can round out her character all you like, but you have to admit that her role in the story is to be the Second Wife and Mother whose acts of being a wife and mother cause trouble! That's a fact! And it's not great! And the name "Indis" isn't helping because if she was named anything but her literal narrative role, that would be characterization! She could be noble like Artanis, she could be of the sea like Eärwen, but she's not! She's just "bride"!

...so, I redeem this by making this definition of her life deliberate within the text - and not just by a future Númenorean scholar, but by Indis's mother. (Female! O! Cs!) Furthermore, names of prophecy are implicitly grand (even if they're not necessarily either good or bad). It makes being a bride itself feel more active - and why not! Do Indis's acts of love and marriage not change the fate of the world just as much as Lúthien's? Consider that Indis's act of marriage is so important that it echoes back through the Great Music to be known by her mother as she held the future bride as a babe in arms. Consider a mother holding her child under stars beside a lake and going, "damn, this kid is gonna have ripple effects. I should add a bragging warning label."

Also, if you accept the headcanons that

a) most Elvish languages treat "sex" (physical) and "marriage" (soul-bonding) as basically synonymous; and

b) Indis spends thousands of years in the Second/Third ages patiently and stubbornly figuring out how to Make It Work between herself, Finwë and Miriel, such that all three of them can marry with genuine all-around mutual love unto the end of days, for peace among the still-troubled Noldor but mostly for happiness for herself and those she loves most (also an act of bride-ship worthy of prophecy, note) -

then you can with a straight face imagine Indis saying, "I fucked my way into this mess and I'm going to fuck my way out of it."

Feminist critique + consideration of canonical historicity + elaborate headcanon web = sex joke! Now that's good fandom!

#indis #outofangband #the silmarillion #analysis #vanyar #feanor and feanor's kin #(WHETHER HE LIKES IT OR NOT)

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nin-varisse · 1 year

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My favourite thing about Feanor is that he feels so much about everything if that makes sense. He has a strong opinion on everything and is just so intense in everything he does. Of course this can be detrimental to himself and everyone around him if it's in a negative way. His hate against Morgoth and the Valar was intense enough that he was ready to sacrifice everything to pursue it.

On the other hand, he feels just as strongly about things he loves. He saw Nerdanel and knew THIS IS THE LOVE OF HIS LIFE, HE NEEDS TO MARRY HER. He didn't care that he (or they) were still considered too young and she was considered an unfit partner for him. He wanted no one but her and that as soon as possible (and I think she felt the same way). He loved having his own family so much that he didn't just have one son, he had to have seven, more than any other elf we know about. Loving his father just as intensely (maybe a little too much), he named each one after him to honour him.

We don't even need to speak of his love for creating and language.

#he's just so intense that's why he's so damn interesting imo #it truly never gets boring around him (positively and negatively)#he hates or he loves #there's no inbetween #feanor #feanaro #feanorians #nerdanel #morgoth #the silmarillion #silm #headcanon #hc #character analysis #meta #nin's thoughts

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southfarthing · 11 months

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GUYS. nienna gandalf pity grief hope. andreth finrod aegnor pity grief hope. faramir eowyn pity grief hope . you get me????

#been trying to put this into a coherent analysis for weeks but my brain isn't doing the thing #lotr #silmarillion #mp #tolkien

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thebitchkingofangmar · 4 months

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One reading of Fëanor that I haven't encountered yet but has recently become integral to my interpretation of the character and of the Fëanorian Oath (tho I'm sure I'm bound to find it somewhere if I do better research of academic databases and the Tumblr search system wasn't bullshit) is that Fëanor shouldn't have made the Silmarils in the first place.

One of the reasons I love this idea so much is that we know Fëanor does not care about should do, he cares about what he can do. "Enough" is a limitation, how far he goes, how excellent his craft is is not determined by notions like this. He would've made them anyway, even if Eru himself had told him not to.

I became of this idea when I was reading a series of theology essays about prophets in Jewish religiosity and history, as well as the Man-God relationship by Abraham Joshua Heschel. One of the essays is an address he made during the Civil Rights movement, in defence of it as an accomplice of racial liberation, and in it, while talking about racism and using religion to justify racism in an affront to God, he defines an Idol as "any god who is mine but not yours, any god concerned with me but not you, is an idol."

Aside from its context, it made me think of how the Fëanorian Oath changes the narrative around the Silmarils. We know they're sacred objects; so sacred Varda herself protected them. In this line, most of the reads/takes/interpretations about Fëanor and the Oath I have encountered revolve around either (a) him being justified in his pursue of what had been stolen from him because they're sacred objects; (b) interpretations about Fëanor's downfall rooted in his pride and direct Catholic/Christian interpretations of Genesis.

Starting with the latter, I've never liked those interpretations not because Tolkien's religiosity did not affect his world building, but because imo they are less concerned with the story in itself and the narrative relationships between themes, characters, actions and environment, and more with making Tolkien stories into fables, as if he was writing the moral reimagining of Paradise Lost. Man's a lot of things but he is a novelist through and through. He's not writing a fable.

Another reason I don't like them is because they forgo simpler, much more tangible interpretations between Tolkien characters and what is Holy, Sacred or Godly in the Legendarium, but also with religion in general: that not bringing harm onto others, because you recognise life in others as a manifestation of what is Holy, isn't about the great moral deeds of misdeeds of the Reprehensible and the Punishable but in the neutral. In the small things. In the not holding yourself as the only measure of the world and being curious enough to be open to others. You don't need to be Great to do this. This isn't about the Great Kings and Great Elves and the Names Which Go Down In History, but the everyday people, concerned with every day things, which is a huge theme in Tolkien.

This is when the Silmarils become idols, this is why he shouldn't have created them even if I know and love that he would've done it anyway. Because even as Varda put her hands on them to protect them, Fëanor is not the owner of the light of the trees. Who is Fëanor to command who gets access to the light of the trees and who doesn't? Who is Fëanor to decide who is worthy of their light and who is not? That is not his prerogative, and never will be. The Oath confirms the opposite, whoever: that the light is his and of whom he decides are worthy, and before the Oath, his resentment against other elves and the Valar about them being taken too.

Which takes me to the the other interpretation. He's justified to go after them because they're religious, sacred objects. And I agree! They are. And they're also still idols. The Fëanorian Oath still turns the light of the trees into something of only some are worthy, concerned with Fëanor and his descendents and no one else. Because if it were for the sake of the holy value of the Trees themselves, why act against other elves? Why make your children swear to take them from, by any means, from even the Valar and Eru himself? He was like this even before Melkor got in the picture.

If Fëanor had kept the secret, like Aulë when he created the dwarves, and Eru had confronted him about it, do you think he would've given them away? I don't think he would've. And even if they weren't sacred, Fëanor still had no special right over the light of the trees, or do great corporations, political tyrants or the like own the sun? Should they own water, the housing markets, food, healthcare, education, and all of the things people need to live?

This is why he shouldn't have created them in the first place. Because even if the elves did not revolve so heavily around God (which is a thing for another time) light isn't his to own. Light does not need to sacred or hold religious significance for it not to be his to own. I assure you that if, in real life, someone began trying to charge us for being under the sun (and honestly some corporations and political decisions already kind of try) we'd be rightfully pissed.

If I was an elf and Fëanor told me I couldn't partake in the light of the Trees because he was better than me, and because he was the only one who could even do a feat like preserving it, I would tell him to fuck off and to realise that if he hasn't noticed, the fruits of the Trees give light for free, what is he gonna do? Build an enclosure around them? lol, lmao even.

#and he'd murder me for it but we love him as he is #terrible perfect creature one day i will do the essay on how you're so similar to sauron you'd lose your mind if someone told you so #feanor #house of feanor #feanorians #the silmarillion #the silmarils #jrr tolkien #tolkien #tolkien legendarium #legendarium #meta analysis #character analysis #originals.txt #this has been living rent free in my head for days now

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luanna801 · 11 months

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Currently reading The Silmarillion, and I don't know enough about the fandom to know if this point has been made before, but I'm fascinated by how much Maedhros comes across as a darker version of Gawain.*

Like, the Chronic Older Brother Syndrome? The constantly trying to keep a handle on a crowd of younger brothers who range from stabby to downright evil? The parent with a raging hate-on for their half-brother? Turning around and swearing fealty and acknowledging the kingship of said half-uncle anyway because it's the right thing to do? Just the general constantly getting caught in the middle of family drama with a literal body count despite actively trying to be on good terms with everyone involved? The blood feuds? The oath of vengeance which was objectively a terrible move but it was motivated by family loyalty and it's too late to turn back now? The courtesy and diplomatic skills? Even the close relationship with his cousin that's a li'l bit Sailor Moon, arguably?

These are all extremely #Gawaincore things, and given Tolkien's love of Arthurian mythology I have to think it was either intentional, or at least a subconscious influence. Tolkien even started writing his own retelling of the downfall of Camelot (sadly unfinished), as well as doing his own translation of Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, which suggests to me that Gawain was a character he had particular interest in. (I haven't read Tolkien's Fall of Arthur, but I'd be really interested to check it out now and see how much these parallels are apparent in his Gawain portrayal.)

Anyway, I like to think if these two somehow met, they'd find a lot of common ground to commiserate/bond over that next to no one else would relate to. And I may or may not be tempted to write a fic where they do exactly that.

*Depending on the version of Gawain we're talking about, obviously, as some of his portrayals can be downright despicable. But I personally lean towards a Gawain that's more straightforwardly heroic than any of the Feanorians, though still flawed - and from Tolkien's own work with Arthuriana, it seems he did too.

#king arthur #arthuriana #sir gawain #the silmarillion #maedhros #round table #literature #mythology #legend #j.r.r. tolkien #analysis #parallels

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kosmic-autokrat · 1 year

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yet he yielded at last to the will of maedhros

so as you can probably tell, i love maglor. i love this little expression on him. my design for him's grown over the years (as has his hair) and so have my opinions on him!

that link's to a meta post about him, btw! it's still accurate to the way i see him.

Maedhros' imprisonment on Thangorodrim broke Maglor. I don't think he ever saw himself as a huge leader, just a performer, which is what he did. And he was good at it! But this performance was a little too real, and the consequences were a little too dire, and it was chase his probably-dead brother's ghost and risk his other brothers' deaths or sit there and try to hold things together. That's what he does.

He's a realist, this one! But we can also see that his guilt cripples him but not enough to prevent him from acquiescing to his brother's demands in the end. That guilt of leaving him in the cold alone to die is greater, perhaps, than even the guilt that drove him to write the Noldolante. The guilt that came from slaying hundreds of innocents in a refugee camp. So then he takes that guilt and buries himself in it and smothers the coals of a flame long burnt out.

But his guilt will not even let him die, for that is too easy a punishment for him in his mind.

#silm meta #kano art #maglor #maedhros #he was mentioned i guess #my art #art #silmarillion #the silmarillion #silm art #analysis #character rant #character analysis

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middle-earth-mythopoeia · 2 years

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The evolution of the Oath of Fëanor

I was interested in comparing the different versions of the Oath of Fëanor to understand the similarities and differences and how it changed over time. So I went through HoMe and copied all the different versions to look at them side by side.

To start with, the earliest mention of the Oath appears in The Book of Lost Tales, and it was sworn by Fëanor’s sons, but not Fëanor himself, after the Noldor came to Beleriand:

Then the Seven Sons of Fëanor swore an oath of enmity for ever against any that should hold the Silmarils. / The Seven Sons of Fëanor swore their terrible oath of hatred for ever against all, Gods or Elves or Men, who should hold the Silmarils...

The next version appears in the Flight of the Noldoli from The Lays of Beleriand; Fëanor himself now initiates the Oath and swears it in Valinor. This is also the earliest version of the actual words of the Oath:

‘I swear here oaths, unbreakable bonds to bind me ever, by Timbrenting and the timeless halls of Bredhil the Blessed that abides thereon— may she hear and heed—to hunt endlessly unwearying unwavering through world and sea, through leaguered lands, lonely mountains, over fens and forest and the fearful snows, till I find those fair ones, where the fate is hid of the folk of Elfland and their fortune locked, where alone now lies the light divine.’

Then his sons beside him, the seven kinsmen, crafty Curufin, Celegorm the fair, Damrod and Diriel and dark Cranthir, Maglor the mighty, and Maidros tall (the eldest, whose ardour yet more eager burnt than his father's flame, than Fëanor’s wrath; him fate awaited with fell purpose), these leapt with laughter their lord beside, with linked hands there lightly took the oath unbreakable; blood thereafter it spilled like a sea and spent the swords of endless armies, nor hath ended yet:

‘Be he friend or foe or foul offspring of Morgoth Bauglir, be he mortal dark that in after days on earth shall dwell, shall no law nor love nor league of Gods, no might nor mercy, not moveless fate, defend him for ever from the fierce vengeance of the sons of Fëanor, whoso seize or steal or finding keep the fair enchanted globes of crystal whose glory dies not, the Silmarils. We have sworn for ever!’

The next version appears in The Lay of Leithian, The Lays of Beleriand:

They joined in vows, those kinsmen seven, swearing beneath the stars of Heaven, by Varda the Holy that them wrought and bore them each with radiance fraught and set them in the deeps to flame. Timbrenting's holy height they name, whereon are built the timeless halls of Manwë Lord of Gods. Who calls these names in witness may not break his oath, though earth and heaven shake. Curufin, Celegorm the fair, Damrod and Diriel were there, and Cranthir dark, and Maidros tall (whom after torment should befall), and Maglor the mighty who like the sea with deep voice sings yet mournfully. ‘Be he friend or foe, or seed defiled of Morgoth Bauglir, or mortal child that in after days on earth shall dwell, no law, nor love, nor league of hell, not might of Gods, not moveless fate shall him defend from wrath and hate of Fëanor's sons, who takes or steals or finding keeps the Silmarils, the thrice-enchanted globes of light that shine until the final night.’

This is followed by another version of the Oath which appears in Sketch of the Mythology from The Shaping of Middle-earth, after Tolkien stopped working on the poetic Silmarillion and turned to the prose version:

Fëanor and his sons take the unbreakable oath by Timbrenting and the names of Manwë and Bridil to pursue anyone, Elf, Mortal, or Orc, who holds the Silmarils.

The next version appears in the Quenta Noldorinwa from The Shaping of Middle-earth:

Then he swore a terrible oath. His seven sons leaped straightway to his side and took the selfsame vow together, each with drawn sword. They swore an oath which none shall break, and none should take, by the name of the Allfather, calling the Everlasting Dark upon them, if they kept it not; and Manwë they named in witness, and Varda, and the Holy Mount, vowing to pursue with vengeance and hatred to the ends of the world Vala, Demon, Elf, or Man as yet unborn, or any creature great or small, good or evil, that time should bring forth unto the end of days, whoso should hold or take or keep a Silmaril from their possession.

And this is the version of the Oath in the Annals of Aman from Morgoth’s Ring:

Then Fëanor swore a terrible oath. Straightway his seven sons leaped to his side and each took the selfsame oath; and red as blood shone their drawn swords in the glare of the torches.

‘Be he foe or friend, be he foul or clean, brood of Morgoth or bright Vala, Elda or Maia or Aftercomer, Man yet unborn upon Middle-earth, neither law, nor love, nor league of swords, dread nor danger, not Doom itself, shall defend him from Fëanor, and Fëanor’s kin, whoso hideth or hoardeth, or in hand taketh, finding keepeth or afar casteth a Silmaril. This swear we all: death we will deal him ere Day’s ending, woe unto world’s end! Our word hear thou, Eru Allfather! To the everlasting Darkness doom us if our deed faileth. On the holy mountain hear in witness and our vow remember, Manwë and Varda!’

Thus spoke Maidros and Maglor, and Celegorn, Curufin and Cranthir, Damrod and Diriel, princes of the Noldor. But by that name none should swear an oath, good or evil, nor in anger call upon such witness, and many quailed to hear the fell words. For so sworn, good or evil, an oath may not be broken, and it shall pursue oathkeeper or oathbreaker to the world's end.

And then this is the version of the Oath in The Silmarillion:

Then Fëanor swore a terrible oath. His seven sons leapt straightway to his side and took the selfsame vow together, and red as blood shone their drawn swords in the glare of the torches. They swore an oath which none shall break, and none should take, by the name even of Ilúvatar, calling the Everlasting Dark upon them if they kept it not; and Manwë they named in witness, and Varda, and the hallowed mountain of Taniquetil, vowing to pursue with vengeance and hatred to the ends of the World Vala, Demon, Elf or Man as yet unborn, or any creature, great or small, good or evil, that time should bring forth unto the end of days, whoso should hold or take or keep a Silmaril from their possession. Thus spoke Maedhros and Maglor and Celegorm, Curufin and Caranthir, Amrod and Amras, princes of the Noldor; and many quailed to hear the dread words. For so sworn, good or evil, an oath may not be broken, and it shall pursue oathkeeper and oathbreaker to the world’s end.

—

It’s so interesting to see the Oath of Fëanor take shape!

First of all, it’s interesting that the Oath was originally sworn by Fëanor’s sons, not Fëanor himself. The greater role of the sons in earlier versions of the story can also be seen in the line about Maedhros, ‘whose ardour yet more eager burnt...’

There are many similarities between the poetic versions, even down to specific phrases: ‘friend or foe’ to ‘foe or friend’; ‘foul offspring’ to ‘foul or clean’; ‘no law, nor love’ to ‘neither law, nor love’; ‘not moveless fate’ to ‘not Doom itself’, and so on. ‘League of Gods’ becomes ‘league of hell’ and then ‘league of swords’.

In the earlier versions, Morgoth could still have ‘offspring’—the idea that the Valar could have children was to be discarded as time went on. Theoretically, ‘brood of Morgoth’ in the version in Morgoth’s Ring could also mean offspring, but it probably pertains to creatures that Morgoth did not directly create, but that he had a hand in making, such as the Orcs.

(Only the version from Sketch of the Mythology explicitly mentions Orcs, but it stands to reason that they should generally be omitted, because Fëanor would not have known of them while he was still in Valinor.)

All versions of the Oath threaten violence against those who take or keep a Silmaril, but the version from Morgoth’s Ring introduces ‘whoso hideth or hoardeth...or afar casteth’. And whereas the earlier versions threaten ‘enmity’, ‘hatred’, ‘fierce vengeance’, and ‘wrath and hate’, the version from Morgoth’s Ring explicitly threatens death.

The naming of Taniquetil appears in all the versions after The Flight of the Noldoli. The naming of Varda in witness appears first in The Flight of the Noldoli; then in Sketch of the Mythology both Varda and Manwë are named, and this was clearly to become a central feature of the Oath.

The naming of the Allfather first appears in the version from the Quenta Noldorinwa, and again in Morgoth’s Ring, and this was also to become a central feature of the Oath. In the version in The Silmarillion, it is emphasized even further: ‘by the name even of Ilúvatar’.

The Quenta Noldorinwa also introduces the pivotal element of the Everlasting Darkness, which had not been mentioned up until that point, but would obviously persist into later versions.

The element of the drawn swords also first appears in the Quenta Noldorinwa, and their swords shine ‘red as blood’ in Morgoth’s Ring in language that is identical to the passage in The Silmarillion. The phrasing ‘which none shall break, and none should take’ is also identical to The Silmarillion.

It’s also interesting that the version in The Book of Lost Tales says the sons of Fëanor swore an oath of hatred against ‘Gods or Elves or Men’, but then the versions from The Lays of Beleriand do not mention the Oath being directed against the Gods, but this element returns in the Quenta Noldorinwa and persists to Morgoth’s Ring (which adds Maiar to the list) and The Silmarillion.

Overall, as the Oath of Fëanor evolved, it seems that it became much more dangerous and malicious and took on ever greater significance in the story. It was never not dangerous, but the Fëanorians kept adding to their list of enemies until they were threatening to pursue to the end of the world any creature, good or evil, who should possess a Silmaril. The imagery of the drawn swords shining red as blood, which appears in the later versions of the Oath, emphasizes the intent behind it.

And although the Oath was already called ‘unbreakable’ in The Flight of the Noldoli, in later versions the sense of its finality and binding nature is much stronger because of the naming of the Valar, the naming of Ilúvatar, and invoking the Everlasting Darkness.

I made this chart to show the evolution of the Oath over time:

Also, Morgoth’s Ring introduces the sentence, ‘For so sworn, good or evil, an oath may not be broken, and it shall pursue oathkeeper or oathbreaker to the world's end.’ This raises an interesting problem: if an oath cannot be broken, then there can’t be oathbreakers. But it says such an oath may not be broken; clearly it is possible to break. (This is backed up by the fact that, in some versions of the story, Maedhros foreswore the Oath. That isn’t the outcome Tolkien ended up choosing—but it shows that it was possible.)

On a final note, it’s also interesting that the Fëanorians threaten to pursue ‘to the ends of the World Vala, Demon, Elf or Man...’ and then it says such an oath ‘shall pursue oathkeeper and oathbreaker to the world’s end.’ I think that’s it. The Fëanorians swore an oath to pursue their enemies with vengeance—but the oath turned on them instead.

#Tolkien #HoMe #Silmarillion #Oath of Feanor #my writing #because I am INSANE... I literally did a word search in HoMe (I have a PDF of it) and there are over 300 iterations of ''oath''#some of them appear inside other words such as loath or loathsome #so I went through and found all the mentions of the Oath of Feanor #there are many more mentions of it than these seven versions #this was really just an analysis of the content of the oath as it evolved #I stayed up to 5am writing this

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cilil · 7 months

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Another thing that makes Melkor's and Mairon's relationship so fascinating to me is that in some aspects they're polar opposites (e.g. chaos vs. order), but in other aspects they're very similar and can probably relate to each other's struggles (e.g. wanting Arda to change and evolve instead of preserving everything). I think this also provides them with some sort of balance, so that they aren't at odds and at each other's throats all the time.

Whenever I write them as romantic partners/in a relationship, I like the idea that they learn to appreciate this. One example would be Melkor relying on Mairon to maintain order in his kingdom whenever he's just uninterested in doing so himself, which is actually an aspect of their dynamic that exists in canon too (cf. this post)

#mairon #sauron #melkor #morgoth #angbang #silmarillion #silmarillion analysis #my thoughts #tolkien

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outofangband · 9 months

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Absolutely obsessed with how the book of lost tales straight up says that if Aerin/Airin could have gotten away with giving no punishment for Brodda’s death she would have which is so cool of her

That entire scene is so fascinating

#the silmarillion #the children of húrin #BoLT #Aerin #Airin?#look I do have actual analysis of that scene but tonight it’s just admiration

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riding-with-the-wild-hunt · 8 months

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for real who is haunting the narrative more than míriel. the tengwar and the silmarils and a whole dynasty created because fëanor was maybe the only elf in aman to understand impermanence and loss enough to fear them. the noldorin crown passed on because finwë chose to spare his son another abandonment and died for it. gondolin and nargothrond and nevrast and lindon and hithlum established as realms and the silmaril coming back to valinor because indis had children with a widower. just something about míriel simultaneously being present everywhere in the story and also watching and recording it from outside unnoticed and without the power to ever intervene

#who is doing it like she's doing it....#the silmarillion #miriel therinde #finwëans #the professor's world #elves elves elves #meta + analysis #brought to you by me #every day i wake up + get on my little soapbox

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beyonddarkness · 1 year

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Yes.

We set some essential groundwork in the first three chapters.

Let us approach Sauron’s ultimate question and finally delve into the meat of this whole thing.

Sauron is Evil.

Galadriel: “One cannot satisfy thirst by drinking seawater.” Sauron: “Then what is it?”

“Why do you keep fighting?”

He knows exactly why Galadriel keeps fighting, and wants her to stop galloping for a moment, realize what has kept her fighting for centuries, and admit the truth. He has already given her the answer to this question several times. Does she keep fighting to avenge her brother, and everyone else she has lost? No. Then, what fuels her obsession?

Recall the showrunners’ statements.

1) Sauron sees Galadriel, and “knows that what she needs more than anything else is to find the evil that has plagued her for so long, and save Middle-earth. So, he self-styles himself as the person that she will trust” (JD Payne, TROP Podcast). When does he ‘self-style’ himself as Halbrand? Before they meet on the raft. In order for it to be a possibility that he did it specifically to make Galadriel trust him, he would have to be aware of her existence before the raft.

2) “Did she jump off the boat because she sensed Halbrand nearby?” (JD Payne, TROP Podcast).

3) “Is her obsession (which character after character in the show tells her is not a good thing)—Is he CALLING her to him?” (Patrick McKay, TROP Podcast).

Let us set this in stone, once and for all. I am 100% certain of this:

Sauron Called Galadriel to Him

“I strove to create a unique interval between each theme’s first and second note. If each major theme had a unique first interval, listeners would be able to identify that theme in only two notes, the smallest amount of musical information possible. This would be an exercise in efficiency! The more iconic I hoped a theme would be, the rarer should be its opening interval. […]

“Each of these themes has a unique quality in sound and tone, but by beginning with a distinct first interval, they all become instantly recognizable in a matter of seconds.” Bear McCreary, Bear’s Blog

On The Boat [0:07 in the clip below], a tiny voice echoes the first two notes of Sauron’s theme (the “sinister downward third,” as Bear puts it):

Here is what that exact voice sounds like in all its glory: ["Nampat burzum-ank."] Death into darkness.

I was genuinely disturbed when I saw where it was placed in episode 1 …

The little voice is Sauron himself, calling from afar. Galadriel (in a trance) is immediately pulled back by his lure. Thondir, who sincerely cares for Galadriel’s well-being, notices that something is horribly wrong, and desperately calls BACK to her, as if to counter the pull, and snap her out of whatever trance she is in. He knows that this is not normal. Someone is ‘tapping into the powers of the Unseen World.’

In the end, the voice is no longer a distant cry, but is at full-strength. Sauron tries to twist the motives of Galadriel’s friends, in order to make her believe that everyone else would hold her back. “All others look on you with doubt.” This directly calls back to Thondir, who (as Sauron might put it) mutinied against her and tried to drag her off to Valinor. Thus, we see his cunning.

Sauron vs. Thondir (and/or the Valar)

That small voice is not the only time Sauron sings.

"[…] in after years [Sauron] rose like a shadow of Morgoth and a ghost of his malice, and walked behind him on the same ruinous path down into the Void." The Silmarillion: Valaquenta

Thondir and Sauron have a contest. From the first ‘yoo-hoo’ to Galadriel, to the sudden cut-off in the music, there are many instruments and voices competing against one another. Meanwhile, Galadriel is disoriented (one indication being the morphing of Thondir’s voice, like she’s underwater).

Thondir is one who knew that Galadriel’s obsession was not a good thing. Galadriel. Give me your hand, he says anxiously. He knows that whatever is happening is so dire, that he has to guide her by the hand in order to ensure her safety.

That is why he panics in the end. All others on the boat are already immersed in the light, seemingly unaware of anything else around them. In a desperate attempt to save Galadriel from peril, Thondir calls her name once more, and is the last one to look forward; but his arm is still stretched out to her.

All the while, Sauron pulls back on Galadriel. No, come to ME! he says in earnest, somehow more alluring and inviting. He says some other things, too, but we will discuss that in a few moments.

The music alone sounds like a type or version of the contest between Ilúvatar and Melkor [Morgoth], in the Ainulindalë. It is ‘A Shadow of the Past’, one might say. The entire story applies, but for now, let us focus on the end—

Ilúvatar’s music: “Deep and wide and beautiful, but slow and blended with an immeasurable sorrow, from which its beauty chiefly came.”

Melkor’s music: “Loud, and vain, and endlessly repeated; and it had little harmony, but rather a clamorous unison as of many trumpets braying upon a few notes. And it essayed to drown the other music by the violence of its voice.” [bray: to speak or laugh loudly and harshly.]

"[…] but it seemed that its most triumphant notes were taken by the other and woven into its own solemn pattern." The Silmarillion: Ainulindalë [Whether on purpose, or by accident, this is exactly what we hear in this music.]

Let us solidify the music in our minds, before watching the video. Just before the battle commences, there is a continuous, confusing stream of voices in the background, as if to clutter Galadriel’s mind, and it does not stop.

The clip below begins as the birds fly from Valinor through the clouds (which reminds me of the beginning of the Ainulindalë), and ends with Galadriel leaping from the ship.

“I hear it said that when you cross over, you hear a song. One whose memory we all carry. And you are immersed in a light more intoxicating than any sensation in all of Middle-earth.” -Elrond

Lyrics from Bear's Blog: The Lord of the Rings: 101

0:00 - ["Mélamar, eldamar, kene kala lessen."] Home, Elvenhome, light us-in.

0:12 - ["Yánalva fanyamar; Yo hapan lirilve."] Our holy place, cloud home and as one we sing, as one.

0:27 - ["Lennar, tul'valme; Entula lumequentalelmo."] We will come to you; returning upon the hour.

1:04 - ["Mélamar, eldamar, kene kala … "] Home, Elvenhome, light us-in.

1:17 – [" ... lessen."] Galadriel looks back at the dagger. Sauron begins tapping into the powers of the Unseen World.

1:19 – "Do you know why a ship floats …"

1:24 – ” … and a stone cannot?”

1:30 – Gil-galad, Elrond, and Celebrimbor witness the Stranger soar across the sky. “Means [Sauron’s] time is near.” – Waldreg (1×04). 1:46 – Sinister downward third. 1:55 – Galadriel momentarily snaps out of her trance. 1:57 – Cluttering voices begin and worsen until the end. 2:04 – Sauron calls for Galadriel; Galadriel is immediately pulled back towards the dagger. 2:08 – The Battle begins.

2:13 – “Galadriel!”

[sinister downward third]

2:30 – “Give me your hand.”

2:42 – Sauron’s horns blare to drown out Thondir. Galadriel looks back at the sounds of said horns.

2:45 – ” … the lights shine just as brightly reflected in the water as they do in the sky.”

2:49 – Sauron’s horns fight against the strings.

2:51 – “How am I to know which lights to follow?”

2:55 – ["Etsir … "] Near … “Sometimes we cannot know until we have touched the darkness.”

3:02 – [" … amna, vanyalyë."] … the rivermouth, you depart. Sauron’s ostinato accompanies Galadriel’s theme, as she decides to touch the darkness again. Sauron is now SCREAMING: “Come to me!”

3:15 – ["Sirya tumne lisse- … "] Flow deep by your grace. Thondir: “GALADRIEL!”

3:22 – [" … -lyanen. Namárië!] Farewell. (Go towards goodness.)

3:36 –

"In the midst of this strife, whereat the halls of Ilúvatar shook and a tremor ran out into the silences yet unmoved, Ilúvatar arose a third time, and his face was terrible to behold. Then he raised up both his hands, and in one chord, deeper than the Abyss, higher than the Firmament, piercing as the light of the eye of Ilúvatar, the Music ceased.” The Silmarillion: Ainulindalë

The pull that Sauron had on Galadriel must have been incredibly powerful, in order for her to reject the light of her home, right on its doorstep.

So, here’s the clip. Notice Galadriel’s peculiar attachment to the dagger. Even Thondir knows that something is incredibly wrong with the way she cleaves to it. He is relieved when she lets go: Whew! Okay. Everything’s fine, or so he thinks (his concern breaks my heart).

What did Sauron say to her?

Galadriel is not bound by an oath, as she believes (see Chapters 2 and 3). When Sauron infiltrates her mind in episode 8, he tells her (in a horrifically convincing manner) what she believes; but it was not the first time.

Galadriel: “No penance could ever erase the evil you have done.”

Sauron: “That is not what you believe.” Galadriel: “Do not tell me what I believe!” Sauron: “No.”

Sauron was the reason Galadriel leapt from the ship, but she is not lying when she tells Elrond this:

“I leapt from that ship because I believed in my heart I was not yet worthy of it. I knew that somehow, my task here was not yet complete.”

This is what Sauron wanted her to believe, so he planted it to push her closer to what will get him what he wants. One might say that Sauron thinks that what Galadriel needs more than anything is to find him and save Middle-earth. However, he does not care about anyone but himself; it is for his own gain.

“[…] W.H. Auden wrote an essay on Tolkien, and he said something along the lines of, “Evil loves only itself.” [“Evil, defiantly chosen, can no longer imagine anything but itself.”] So I think in his pitch to Galadriel, it cannot mean that he loves her or that there’s any kind of romantic relationship. There should be no ambiguity around the fact that Sauron is evil—he’s terrible, and he’s using Galadriel to enhance his power.” Charlie Vickers, The New York Times

Utilizing songs of power (with which he defeated her brother in a contest), the Master of Deceit calls to her, in order to convince her to leap from the ship, saying: You will not be worthy of a glorious rest until you fulfill the task to which you are bound. Find me, so that together, we can save this Middle-earth.

Here is the silver lining:

'[…] And thou, Melkor, shalt see that no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me, nor can any alter the music in my despite. For he that attempteth this shall prove but mine instrument in the devising of things more wonderful, which he himself hath not imagined.' The Silmarillion: Ainulindalë

The Epic Cue

Here is my personal opinion: I have come to the tentative conclusion that The Epic Cue has something to do with victoriously tapping into the powers of the Unseen World, at a perilous cost.

Instead of the [G#, A], I am specifically talking about the [D, C#, A], indicated by the timestamps before each clip below. The perilous results of tapping into said powers, in each instance, are shown in the pictures associated.

In the case of The Boat, it was not Galadriel tapping into the powers of the Unseen World, but rather Sauron himself, as established above. He coaxed Galadriel to leap from the ship, in order to pursue a perilous path. He wins. “Sometimes the perilous path is the only path” (Galadriel 1×08).

0:06

There is something to be said about Sauron ‘having the mastery,’ as it says in The Silmarillion.

"[…] Felagund strove with Sauron in songs of power, and the power of the King was very great; but Sauron had the mastery […]" The Silmarillion: Of Beren and Lúthien

In the beginning of the season, he is rebuilding his power, but knows much more about these things than the Stranger does at this point (who uses them instinctively). So, the Stranger’s cue is short-lived (playing over seemingly smaller stakes), while Sauron’s is mightier (involving higher stakes).

The Stranger taps into these powers at a cost, when he saves Nori, Poppy, and Malva from the three wolves.

Might I add that in both of these instances (the boat and the wolves) the ones using these powers are the only two known Maiar in the world.

Again, I am focusing on the [D, C#, A].

0:04

The next instance is a bit scary. Oh, sure, it is victorious, but not for anyone except Sauron. Depending on your loyalties, it could qualify as a perilous result.

If you are wondering what Sauron did this time, tapping into those powers, look no further than the title of the track in which this cue is found (taken from Episode 6): Transformed by Darkness. The track begins with the scene in the barn (which can fill up an entire chapter by itself, but we shan’t get distracted yet), where Adar says, “It would seem I’m not the only Elf alive who’s been transformed by darkness,” and ends with Theo’s dilemma (not an accident).

"When he saw that many [of the Noldor] leaned towards him, Melkor would often walk among them, and amid his fair words others were woven, so subtly that many who heard them believed in recollection that they arose from their own thought." The Silmarillion: Of the Silmarils and the Unrest of the Noldor

The track includes the log conversation, where Galadriel tells Sauron to be free of whatever he’d done before, and that she felt the same thing he felt (after the ‘bind it to my very being’ stunt).

"[…] But there’s also a good case to be made that every step of the way, he sees her as his ticket back to power, and he’s playing hard-to-get to get her to dig in; to get her to do what he needs her to do.” Patrick McKay, TROP Podcast

He carefully crafted the words and ‘songs’ that he used, so Galadriel would trust him. This led her to say exactly what he wanted her to say: “I felt it, too.” All of this he could use as leverage in the end.

It is the same Epic Cue, as featured above, just shifted up a half-step, from [D, C#, A] to [E♭, D, B♭].

Behold his costly victory:

** Reached the daily Audio Limit with this post, so go to the blog to read and listen to the rest! **

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