Theorizing Pt 1: repression

UP AHEAD: so much rambling about Orange. written very late at night and not the most coherent, sorry. (also, all uses of Thomas are referring to c!Thomas)

okay everyone talks about the dark sides being their opposites, opposing colors, colors on opposite ends of the wheel, but wanna know another term for it? complementary colors. I think the idea of "totally opposing, entirely contrasting, nothing alike" is not really accurate to the lore that we have been given? It's clear that it's important that all sides are accepted, and that there is no "solely good" or "solely bad" trait. Everything has complexities and different aspects to it, and the sides are no different.

I've never been particularly fond of the idea of wrath/anger/cruelty being orange because it seems like a scapegoat? I am more in favor of it representing regret (as most appearances of it are present in scenes or conversations with regret present) [forgot where i saw the theory first :sob:] and passion (impulsive acts based in emotions, a contrast to Logan's character while simultaneously rounding him out and forcing him and thomas to accept the parts that aren't all logical) [theory from @/dillydallydove] as these have more dimension and seem to fill out the gaps in the sides a bit more, especially considering the general theme going with remus, janus, and virgil. These are aspects that Thomas represses, and he knows them by names that aren't really accurate to their full purposes. He knows Janus as deceit, while he is more accurately described as self-preservation. He knows Remus as intrusive thoughts, when he is more accurately described as his repressed creativity. He knows Virgil as Anxiety (which is fairly accurate, though it still minimizes his functions) though he might be more accurately described as caution? fear? an aspect of self preservation? Regardless, perhaps orange could be known as wrath or anger because that's what he manifests as, but that doesn't mean that this is accurate to who he is as an aspect of Thomas. Remus is intrusive thoughts because that is the only way he can get recognized, the only way he breaks through the suppression. Janus is known as deceit because he has to manipulate the other sides to get them to prioritize Thomas's self-interest (as well as his personal responsibility to protect Thomas from what he can't handle at the moment; deceiving himself, sure, but at it's core, preserving his presently fragile mental state).

What emotion, what passion, does thomas repress the most? he's clearly open to expressing love and joy and, more recently, stress and anxiety, even some hints of sadness showing. but what has he been repressing the most? his anger! his frustration! his (and his sides') sense of inadequacy!! Orange is being seen in these contexts because that is what he isn't allowing himself (and the sides) to express as themselves.

Sanders Sides' whole thing is accepting the different parts of yourself, with underlying themes of c!thomas's upbringing causing him to repress, deny, or otherwise have an unhealthy relationship with "bad" aspects of himself (which, boy do i have some ideas for possible explorations of OCD in this, especially with the prevalence of intrusive thoughts- and the ways Thomas and the other sides change their language around Remus to prevent him from "getting ideas"-). Orange could be treated as a character foil to Logan, or Orange could be like Janus, but instead of protecting c!T from things he can't handle, Orange is the result of that suppression. Like how remus formed from thomas (patton) forbidding Roman from having "bad" ideas, orange could be formed from thomas (logan) pushing down "bad" feelings, feelings of passion that don't directly help other people.

Of course, this brings me to how Janus (a "gatekeeper" of sorts for Thomas) would interact with orange. this is reaching more into prediction territory. I suspect that Janus wants orange to emerge, as prolonged repression is harming Thomas (which i'm pretty sure he alluded to at least once, though i'm blanking on when). (also, an aside, is it not concerning that during the christmas special, Janus, c!T's self-preservation, was increasingly inebriated?? ooh and the occasional gags about Logan drinking wine too-) Notice how Janus has been watching Logan? this plus the general willingness to exclude Logan (further pushing his frustration and feelings of inadequacy) makes me suspect that he (as per usual) knows more than the rest.

I... don't really have a conclusion. I think Orange isn't an embodiment of aggression, moreso a result of repression? I guess? And I'm concerned about... yeah everyone involved, but especially Logan and Janus.

hi famders quick question for. yall because I'm trying to make sense of what the fandom thinks about this. uhm.

what do you think orange is?

ah, you know what my first thought was when i got to this scene?

when logan started off as the side who tried to approach problems as fairly and open-mindedly as possible, and encouraged thomas to not jump to conclusions or assume ill intent.

but he gets ignored, underestimated and sidelined so often that he himself started giving in to the cognitive distortions.

This has been bugging me for a long time but I finally figured out the foreshadowing here—

It explains that Roman didn’t leave just because he felt ganged up on, betrayed or made fun of in SvS Redux—

He left mostly because he felt guilty. He feels like he didn’t do his job well enough—

I think this is probably not a new revelation but I think banter about it gets buried in the idea that no one seems to be on Roman’s side about his feelings towards Janus, or about Patton’s sudden ‘allegiance change’. I think those are fair points but I also think that Roman is heavily disappointed in himself for letting c!Thomas get so far off the rails that Thomas starts choosing alternate (less honourable) approaches to his decision-making (Janus). This is why Roman mentions his ‘mistakes’ in Flirting With Social Anxiety.

Also this is why Virgil is pissed about Thomas’ decisions in that video too. Thomas can’t keep lying to begin a new relationship with a new guy. Fortunately however, c!Thomas is spared having make an excuse (a lie) to approach Nico, because Nico approaches him instead.

Anyway, Roman needs a genuine win soon or I’m gonna explode 😃❤️

Thanks for reading! 😄

is nobody gonna talk about the fact that remus was absolutely downing the ANTI SPOILER SPRAY when thomas asked him if he had any regrets?

it was like he was forcing himself to not say anything that would “spoil” the series.

yall

yall plz

what if the orange side isnt some underlying entity "showing himself", like the other dark sides?

what if orange is forming before our eyes?

we all know about king creativity, right? thomas started hating some parts of creativity, some parts that became intrusive thoughts. creativity and intrusive thoughts just couldnt be one side. so they split.

and logan. logan is logic, yes, but hes also anger now. hes anger at thomas for not getting the respectable job and hes anger for pattons silly little fits and hes anger at every single imperfect part of thomas.

and thomas just can not get angry every time he tries to be logical, the mindscape knows that. so.. theres one answer. they split.

they call one of them logan. the one in blue and the one with the tie. he looks similiar, but.. hes sweet and eerily polite and he never yells falsehood. he cant quip with virgil the same way. hes always a little too off.

and the other - daedalus. daedalus is scary and loud and orange. hes angry tears and too-sharp teeth but hes the only one that says falsehood. hes the only one to make jokes that leave virgil laughing so hard he cant breath and if janus needs to talk shit, well.. 'logan' never asks. hes always a little too familiar.

An addition to my Logan speculation

I swear I have other theories, but I was thinking and noticed something else from my favourite episode (WTIT) that ties in with my last post.

In the end card, Logan says:

"I suppose this isn't the worst distraction Thomas could have."

That quote's been rattling around my head for a while, and I think I've figured out why. Using the series' own logic (pun sort-of-intended?), distractions have their uses: when Thomas can't reasonably do anything in the moment to solve the problem, and when Thomas is overwhelmed with intrusive thoughts and needs a break to reset.

However, by the end of the episode, Remus leaves. This means that Thomas logically should tell Nico he's busy, schedule to hang out another time, and finish cleaning his apartment. But he doesn't do this. So why is Logan accepting an illogical conclusion?

I think it comes back to self-doubt. We've seen before that a side can lose confidence in their opinions over what Thomas should do. In fact, we've now seen every other core side do this. Roman in Selfishness V Selflessness, Patton in DWIT and SvS Redux, and Virgil earliest of all in AA.

So, it's Logan's turn. Going forward, we might see Logan react in a similar way to the others when they've experienced this before. Being more hesitant to share their opinion, relying more on supporting points by others and doubting if what they believe really is true.

I find it hard to believe that Logan's objective has changed so quickly. He's been solidly established as putting Thomas' health first, more-so the way of supporting what he needs over what he wants. This contrasts with the other sides, most of all Patton and Roman, who mostly act on Thomas' desires.

That means that Logan is either in the process of re-evaluating his position on the matter, or, more likely, is suppressing his thoughts and, in a way, lying to the others.

This is where my theory comes in. I've already explained that I believe a Janus v Logan conflict is coming, and Logan lying is the perfect setup for that. What is even more interesting is that it's becoming more and more likely that this conflict is going to come from a Janus-sympathetic standpoint.

In conclusion, Logan's doubting himself and learning to hide his opinions and this is most likely going to be used as ammunition for Janus to have solid ground to stand on in the finale. I am a strong believer that Janus has a larger plan for the sides, with honest intentions to improve Thomas' life in a way the core sides will protest against, but that's a conversation for another day.

rewatched the 5th anniversary episode for like the 100th time and it is PAINFUL noticing the little things

- virgil seems almost like hes gone back into his shell...? he seems more on edge again, and asks when he can leave but maybe im taking that too out of context

- when patton is asked about nico he seems genuinely worried. im assuming its because of c!thomas's past relationship and how badly that went when they broke up. attachment issues are stored in the patton

-- adding on, since virgil is supposedly not on good terms with patton at the moment, im wondering if its a mix of patton being friendly with janus and remus and the fear that comes with a new romantic relationship. virgil did seem excited about finding someone he likes, as seen in the animatic episode (i cannot for the life of me remember what its called) so maybe him and patton are butting heads about being in a serious relationship again

i cannot stop thinking about how virgil and patton have had an unspoken rift in their relationship and i cannot talk about it to anyone so i am shouting my thoughts into the tumblrsphere. have at it

if Virgil can be summoned by adrenaline spikes, odo you think logan (who probably has some control over the endocrine system because brain juices) would ever use that to get him into a room?

YESSS this is actually a really interesting idea I’ve never heard beforeeee

but like actually yeah that makes a lot of sense and i also think that would be SO silly. much potential.

might draw a mini comic based on this actually I love this????

Hmm

I've not thought too much about the orange side ngl. But I think, based on this assumption that Remus's orange eye thing is related to Logan's orange eye thing (which is an assumption because clearly those two instances look pretty different), maybe it won't be just a Logan thing? I want to look through the other episodes to see if the orange eye thing has happened on anyone else now lol

I mean, both Remus and Logan had an orange-glowing-eyes thing going on when they wanted to gain the attention of character Thomas/other Sides. So, I feel like orange could be anger, but maybe he's no so evil, or something else that would cause someone to demand attention. He (meaning orange) shows himself a little because maybe he's trying to get character Thomas to stand up for himself? Trying to teach Thomas and the other sides to reach out to people, ask for attention, rely on each other, etc etc. But character Thomas has made it pretty clear that's the sort of thing he thinks of, even just subconsciously, as wrong.

But really orange is over here like Dude I Swear To GOD Its Okay To Rely On Other People. Ask For Attention. In Fact I'm Going To Punch Walls Until You Do That. Bitch

What is a Sander Sides hot take/theory/headcannon that you know most Fanders will hate?

Okay I'm saying this

Theory/headcanon:

In Logan's room Logan has power over abstraction/isometric projections. Only Logan can not only see things in that way but also change them in these ways. For him when he sees a cube it is a cube, when he sees a pyramid it is a pyramid.

Shortly and simply: Logan is Superliminal main character lol

My brain: hey are you okay

Me: do you know about the opposite theory?

My brain:……don’t do this…

Me: everyone keeps thinking that their has to be an outlier do to their being 7 sides in total.

My brain: it’s too early in the day.

Me: but what if there are no outliers.

My brain: well let me save you the trouble, is the conclusion that they’re all neutral and that everyone contradicts each other in some ways while also complementing each other in a lot more ways, and that it feels impossible to view them as having definite opposites because of this.

Me:😐

My brain:😳

Me: yeah something like that.

My brain: *breath of relief* okay then

Me: but if it were the case do you think that a side could have more than one opposite?

My brain:

Me: yeah if you were to think about it in like a Tri-force setting it could happen. You could think of it as like the orange side being opposites with Logan and Virgil but there’s other combinations that could be made and I can list them off if you’d li-*knocked out with frying pan*

thinking about how Virgil probably understands how Logan is feeling right now. how Logan feels like no one wants him around anymore, no one values his opinions, the other sides occassionally villanize him or act like he's the problem; and Virgil gets it. he knows exactly how it feels.

and that's why he doesn't make a big deal out of Logan jumping to conclusions about his present. it probably hurt Virgil to see Logan immediately assume that he didn't care enough to prepare a good present but in the end, all Virgil says is “and you thought I would just get you a newspaper”.

because he's been in this exact position before and in that moment, it was Logan who gave him some believable assurance that he is not unwanted, that his presence means something to the rest of them.

so when Logan jumps to a conclusion and assumes that Virgil doesn't like him all that much, Virgil doesn't take it personally. he's just returning the favor.

witchy Orange Side

thats it. thats the post.

THEORY TIME

so it’s shown that logan knew the dark sides before they were even introduced to thomas because of the way he reacted when they were introduced. he immediately shouted “DECEIT!!!” as soon as janus took his hand from his mouth, and the first thing anyone said after remus came into the picture was logan confirming “it’s the duke.”

what if part of the main reason he wants to suppress his emotions so much is that because he already knows the orange side and he knows if he feels any form of vulnerability or intense anger, orange can slip through and potentially hurt thomas?