#pro Acolyte
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I honestly do not get why the majority opinion on here seems to be that The Acolyte is an Anti-Jedi Hit Piece. A Sith Propagands Show. The Acolyte is to The Jedi as Das Kapital is to Capitalism.
Like, you do know the person speaking that line is a villain right? You do know that High Republic has a history of bad guys framing the Jedi and the Republic as Fascists and Dictators right?
Why is this any different? Why are y'all acting like this is an HBomberguy call out and take down piece over the Jedi?
The saddest part is, this will never be seen by literally anyone. The only people talking about this show is just posting to rant about how much Disney hates the Jedi. Goddamn.
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Now that the trailer is out, it's probably best that I get this out of the way before acolyte releases
The Jedi are right about the Force and the dark side
The Jedi did not lose their way
The Jedi were not corrupted
The genocide of the Jedi was not their fault
The Jedi are not wrong for being part of the Republic, it is in fact a good thing
The Jedi are not arrogant for thinking the sith are gone
and while we're at it the sith are evil, always, end of discussion
The Jedi do not steal children
If someone wants to leave the Jedi, that's allowed, no one will stop them
The Jedi are right about attachment
Attachment is not love (SW uses the Buddhist definition because Lucas is a Buddhist and the Jedi are based off Buddhist monks, Buddhism defines attachment as being possessive or unwilling to let go of people or things)
The Jedi do not forbid emotions, they forbid being controlled by your emotions, you must control them
The Jedi are not forbidden from loving people, nor are they celibate, they just can't get married (big whup) because their duties must come first
Being peacekeepers doesn't preclude the Jedi from fighting in war, sometimes to keep the peace you have to fight back, especially when its against tyranny, see WWII (or Ukraine today)
Gray jedi are not a thing
The Jedi are not slavers or complicit in slavery
Oh and of course, the Jedi are not elitists for not training non Force sensitives, (Han voice) that's not how the Force works, dave filoni broke the rules so he could shoehorn sabine into a Jedi (to give the benefit of the doubt, I do believe sabine's role as ahsoka's apprentice was meant for an original character but things got condensed by executives, so maybe filoni isn't entirely to blame here)
Feel free to add anything I forgot
Do not, DO NOT!! add anything Jedi critical, I'm done with it and won't hear it, don't have something nice to say? Then go away, I will block on sight, either reblog without comment (either in the reblog or the notes) or don't interact at all
#wooloo-writes#wooloo writes#star wars#sw#jedi#jedi order#pro jedi#in defense of the jedi#the acolyte critical#the acolyte#sw acolyte#anti the acolyte#anti acolyte#acolyte critical#star wars the acolyte#anti filoni#anti dave filoni#dave filoni critical#the jedi were right#the jedi did nothing wrong#george lucas#anti gray jedi#anti grey jedi
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"It's not about good or bad, it's about power and who is ALLOWED to use it."
This idea that somehow there is no difference between using power for good and bad or that it's a negative thing to wield power in the name of good is an absolutely absurd and childish point of view.
The Sith are not a group of oppressed rebels - they are a group of Authoritarians who's very creed says "Peace is a Lie". The idea that they deserve to have the same power as a group of people who dedicated their lives to serving others is an insane take on the story.
By that logic the KKK or the Nazis deserve/deserved to hold the same status and power as groups like the UN.
And I just can't wrap my head around this philosophy.
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"What's wrong with the Acolyte being Jedi critical? It's okay to criticize them since they have a monopoly on the Force don't they?"
Okay, let me break this down.
1: The Jedi do not have a monopoly on the Force.
Say, remember the Nightsisters of Dathomir? The dark side cult that the Jedi tolerate. They even go there to negotiate in the Clone Wars without making any threats to their continued existence. The only time they ever come into conflict is when they leave Dathomir to mess with someone else.
They're not the only ones either. The media doesn't focus on it much, but there are dozens of different Force-based organizations in SW (Legends and Disney canon) that the Jedi Order coexists with. There's also the simple fact that the parents of Force sensitive children can simply decline the Jedi's offer which would indicate that there are people in the Galaxy with the Force who live independently from the Jedi.
As it happens the only organization the Jedi are constantly fighting are the Sith and for darn good reasons.
2: What's wrong with being critical of the Jedi?
Let's not split hairs here. The "criticism" the Jedi get nowadays almost always seems to end with, "and that's why they deserved to be exterminated down to the children via Order 66." So, pro-Jedi fans are a bit on guard when they hear that a project is "Jedi critical."
Now, in theory, there's nothing wrong with characters in-universe having disagreements with the Jedi way or having criticisms of them. However, despite the show's claim to not be about "good vs evil" I think it's VERY likely to posit that the Jedi are wholly in the wrong and to blame for the conflict in some manner. While downplaying the actions of the villain on account of them being a victim.
Why do I think that? Because the trailer.
3: "This isn't about good or evil. It's about power and who's allowed to use it."
Right at the climax of the trailer is this line. Which spells pretty clearly that the show is saying that just, doesn't matter if the Jedi are good, because they're also powerful and influential in their own regard. So in the show's mind that means they're the problem.
They might offer a halfhearted condemnation of the serial killer murdering them for no reason but chances are they'll suggest that they're not really the problem: that the Jedi are for being powerful. I've even seen quotes floating around saying that show will ask the question "what if the Sith are really just the underdogs?" when they go around blowing up planets.
As for the question itself. It's likewise silly as the Jedi don't actually persecute other Force traditions or force everyone to join them. They don't even force you to stay once you've joined. So it doesn't seem like they're attempting to control the Force at all. Meanwhile, the Sith want to dominate the Galaxy and either exterminate or enslave any opposing traditions.
So the question itself is self-defeating.
Oh and while I'm here...
4: There is no "endless cycle"
Slightly off-topic but it comes up a lot as a defense of the anti-Jedi mindset. It goes something like, "The Jedi perpetuate an endless cycle of war because the Sith keep coming back!"
First off, it's not the Jedi's fault that some lunatics keep popping back up to try and control the Galaxy. All they do is stop them every time they do.
Secondly, the "cycle" only exists because new books keep getting written. Stories need conflict and thus the Sith are revived over and over again.
Thirdly, please someone try to tell me that this could be avoided if the Jedi let their members marry or something.
And fourthly, the cycle's honestly not that bad because the Jedi just win every time and restore peace to the Galaxy for a long period.
#anti the Acolyte#Acolyte critical#the Acolyte critical#Star Wars#The Jedi#Pro Jedi#In defense of the Jedi#the Sith#the Acolyte Trailer
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''this is about power, and who is allowed to use it.''
please don't portray the Jedi as oppressive, please don't potray the Jedi as oppressive, please don't...
#not to say I am not excited I really like the aethetic so colourful!#the acolyte#star wars#pro jedi#but then also ''this isn't about good or bad''#that may be fitting in any other universe but the entire point of the dark side/sith is that it corrupts life itself#that doesn't mean it wouldn't be interesting and cool to further explore but the narrative should still firmly portray the Jedi as good imo#maybe I should hold me horses but considering previous interviews...#across-stars.post#not me retruning to tumblr to be salty#i have been in a funk lately anyway so yeah
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Am I the only one who just lost any and all love for newer Star Wars material due to Jedi hate ? Like- the only merch or show or even FANDOM topic I get involved in is clone wars stuff and MAYBE TBB.
Like- why would I want the watch shows who attempt to rewritte canon and portray the very heroes of Star Wars as the bad guys ?
Why would I want to watch shows that assassinate characters left and right (looking at you, Ahsoka and Sabine) ?
Why would I want to buy merch of characters who I not only NOT care about, but who also are used as meta mouthpieces for stupid Jedi hate ?
I think there's TONS of good newer Star Wars material, to be honest.
I loved the Kenobi show and it is arguably one of the most pro Jedi pieces of media to have existed since the Prequels films. Aside from one itty bitty somewhat awkward word choice in one line of one episode, there is absolutely NOTHING in that show that can be used to indict the Jedi or blame them for anything and it is arguably one of the only shows to really spend time MOURNING the Jedi and recognizing the horror of what was done to them. Rebels comes closest after this, but its structure makes it a little less visceral than the Kenobi show was to me.
I really adore Visions and I recognize that this is sort-of Star Wars adjacent more than anything else, but SO LITTLE truly understands what makes Star Wars compelling as a story and really hits on those primary themes the way that Visions does. There's SO MUCH Jedi content in Visions and I remember people complaining about how much Jedi content was in Visions and other people responding that if you were given free reign to just play in the Star Wars sandbox with near zero restrictions on what you could make with it, you would probably ALSO immediately go for the psychic space wizards with laser swords. Who WOULDN'T? Visions also just genuinely has some of the most engaging and heart-wrenching stories to come out of Star Wars in a LONG while and it does it in these beautifully animated 15 minute packages. It's such a gem and I am so glad to be alive at the same time as Visions.
Rogue One is older now, but both Rogue One and Andor, despite having zero actual Jedi in them, really hinge on the themes from the Prequel trilogy about the tragedy in the Star Wars universe, stepping up when no one else will, choosing to be selfless and compassionate for the greater good, etc. Faith and hope are MASSIVE themes within these two works and even though there aren't any space wizards, good or evil, in either story, they feel like some of the most pro Jedi things Star Wars has come out with in a while based on thematic messages ALONE.
The Mandalorian's first two seasons actually have this absolutely BEAUTIFUL story about the selfless sacrifice of one man as he gives up everything in order to help this child find his way back to the culture he'd been ripped from. Everything AFTER that regarding Grogu and Din's storyline is a piece of shit (it's not explicitly anti-Jedi or anything, but it undoes a lot of the things that made their story so compelling and beautiful), but the first two seasons are genuinely GOOD and very pro Jedi in a lot of ways despite the lack of many actual Jedi characters.
The Book of Boba Fett is a terrible show for a LOT of reasons, but shockingly none of them have anything to do with its treatment of the Jedi. If it ever ends up with a season two, I desperately hope they leave Mace Windu's name the fuck out of it, but at this point it is a pretty Jedi neutral show if you're willing to deal with the rest of its bullshit.
Rebels is also somewhat older now, and it has a few lines here and there that are a tad more Jedi critical, but it is by and large VERY Jedi positive and does also follow a lot of the themes of selflessness and sacrifice that go along with being a Jedi. It also has themes of mercy and patience and facing your fears in Sabine's storyline that got entirely thrown away in her later storyline. Just thought that was worth pointing out. For reasons.
TBB is also fairly Jedi neutral, but its treatment of the clones is basically the clone version of being anti Jedi, so I'm not sure it's actually any better. It just traded hating on the Jedi to hating on the clones, and I find that just as distasteful.
I can't really speak to things like comics and novels much since I don't tend to consume them really. I've read a few of the adult novels in the High Republic Phase I and the first one was genuinely very good, but there were some relatively heavy-handed Jedi critical themes within the third book of Phase I (The Fallen Star) that put me off of it a little. I haven't continued into Phase II or III at all, so I have no idea if those themes got continued in later books. I've heard generally good things about the Padawan book, I think.
The Cal Kestis video games, Fallen Order and Survivor, also have their small Jedi critical moments, but much like Rebels, it has these massive overarching themes and messages about compassion and selflessness and sacrifice and facing your fears and mercy. They are immensely Jedi positive in a lot of ways and I really enjoyed both of them.
So out of everything I have seen (and know about) the only stuff that's truly heinously and insultingly anti-Jedi is the Ahsoka show, the Acolyte, and Tales of the Jedi. Three shows and like 30% of one book. Out of a list of like ten different shows and one film and some books and video games. It's not even really HALF of the content we've been getting recently.
A lot of people talk about the Disney era like it's ruined Star Wars, or like nothing it releases has ever been good. But it just straight up isn't true. It's a little insulting to all of the genuinely wonderful work that is being done by all of these other creators to just brush aside everything that's been coming out recently as awful and bad because some of the MOST recent things have been pretty explicitly hateful towards the Jedi. It's not fun that we had the Ahsoka show immediately followed by the Bad Batch followed by the Acolyte. I hate that, too, it feels like we're on this neverending shitshow of stories explicitly aimed at hating a group of characters for no obvious good reason. But I don't think that the last 6 months or so of bullshit should overshadow some of the really beautiful stories we HAVE gotten within the last several years.
If you feel like things are getting difficult, maybe do a "good Star Wars" marathon of sorts. Watch the Prequels, followed by the Kenobi show, then Andor, then Rebels, then Rogue One, then the Original trilogy. This one long beautiful story of people stepping up to fight against selfishness and greed and darkness no matter what.
Or go rewatch Visions or read some of your favorite fanfics and remember all the things about Star Wars that are just universally cool and compelling across the world. Hell, you can try writing something of your own! Anything! A lot of my AU concepts stemmed from spite and really helped me feel a little bit better about Star Wars when it sometimes felt like I was just surrounded by the parts of it I liked the least. Go buy yourself a cool t-shirt or some fun jewelry. Find some pretty stickers and put it on a water bottle or an enamel pin to put on a canvas tote bag or a corkboard.
Curating your fandom experience goes beyond just the internet. There's a reason I am boycotting the Acolyte and it isn't because I think Disney or its creators are going to care at all. I'm doing it for ME, because I had such a shitty time watching the Ahsoka show and it made me so miserable each week that I seriously think I will be better off just leaving it the hell alone and just absorbing whatever ends up crossing my dash from a distance. I only participate in Star Wars fandom servers that I feel safe in and only really get into discussions with personal friends who I know well. If participating in Star Wars fandom is making you sad, maybe take a step back or find a way to create your own corner of fandom that feels better. Ignore the damn Ahsoka show, pretend it never existed. Ignore the Acolyte. Ignore Tales of the Jedi. Ignore Filoni-related bullshit. Focus on the parts you DO like, or give yourself the space to remember why you liked it in the first place.
#star wars#jedi#pro jedi#obi-wan kenobi#sw owk#kenobi show#kenobi series#andor#star wars andor#rogue one#star wars rebels#rebels#anti tbb#tbb wank#anti ahsoka show#anti acolyte#visions#star wars visions
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I believe, of course, that the Jedi are a benevolent, well-intentioned institution, but they are an institution and they have amassed all the power. So the question becomes when did that happen, and since we know where they’re headed in Phantom Menace, what went wrong?
- The Acolyte creator Leslye Headland (x)
#yeah i'll do some shilling#why not#i liked this interview she seems cool!#and this is a good quote in light of all the endless pro/anti jedi discourse#(sooo many essays in my notes that i do not care to read lol)#institutions can be well-meaning but deeply flawed!#the acolyte#star wars
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The Acolyte showrunner just gave an interview talking about how the show will be "jedi critical" because "that's the story george lucas was trying to tell" and I'm about to commit a crime
#like I'm very upset because#the production looks extremely cool!#but i don't think I'll be able to put upwith the amount of bs I'm sensing from this#like what are they gonna do?#have jedi refusing to help people? be mean?#and then imply is was exactly how GL invisioned them?#(honestly the comparison with tlj was almost worse than this)#the point of that movie was that Luke was WRONG#how tf is a media producer saying this#just admit you're doing your on interpretation I'd be less mad#star wars#the acolyte#negative#pro-jedi#jeid positive
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I'm conflicted about The Acolyte. I want to watch it, mainly because it's the most removed from the OT and features multiple Jedi who aren't easily associated with a massacre. But on the other side of the coin I'm dreading the dumbass anti-Jedi talking points that will be generated by people who would rather take the easy path of demonizing well meaning people and flat out justifying their opposition; the fascist, power hungry, genocidal Sith.
In the event The Acolyte does well, Lucasfilm will be more comfortable making big SW projects without having to rely heavily on the OT crutch. But the statement made by Leslie Headland about how the show "won't be kind to the Jedi" (which can be argued since the Disney acquisition except for the High Republic) hurts my interest a bit. But I'm willing to give the show a chance.
Regardless I’m just grateful we have Young Jedi Adventures; the most Jedi-positive SW TV series in over a decade.
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I know Acolyte is gonna bring a tidal wave of Jedi hate and whatnot, but I just love seeing new Jedi, Jedi culture, and Jedi temple content!!
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I feel that now, in light of certain things, is a good time to note that a red lightsaber is not in of itself proof of a sith
Jedi and sith are not the only Force cultures that use lightsabers, they're simply the most common, more than that, a red lightsaber is just a lightsaber with a corrupted crystal, not something unique to the sith, any dark sider can do that, as we see Dagan Gera do, actually he is in fact an example of what would probably be the most common example of a red lightsaber wielder in the pre-movies era, a fallen Jedi, someone who already had a lightsaber and corrupted its crystal after falling in order to symbolize their break from the Jedi
All of this is to say that the Jedi are not being foolish/arrogant/head in the sand/blind/etc if they don't automatically jump to "SITH!" upon encountering someone with a red lightsaber
#wooloo-writes#wooloo writes#star wars#sw#lightsaber#lightsabers#jedi#sith#pro jedi#in defense of the jedi#just prepping this ahead of time#I've been around the fandom long enough to know exactly how certain folks are gonna act#i already have this discussion every few months about maul and the council in tpm#i know acolyte will reignite it#the acolyte#star wars the acolyte#star wars acolyte
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the shit I'm seeing about the Acolyte is so insane, Headland hasn't said anything or indicated being "anti-Jedi" in any way, she even called the Jedi a good and benevolent institution, all she's said in any way that could possibly be interpreted as negative about the Jedi is asking what if an institution had flaws and what if not everyone was perfect.
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Yep, it sucked.
"This isn't about good or bad (lol yeah right), this is about power and who's allowed to use it." :(
The Jedi: Everyone can! Other Force traditions are allowed and you're free to leave the Jedi if you like. Just please don't murder or oppress people.
The Sith: JUST US OR WE'LL KILL YOU GAHHHHHH!
Case closed I guess. But I have the feeling the show will come to the opposite conclusion or at least suggest that the Jedi are the root cause of the Galaxy's problems when they aren't.
#Star Wars#anti the Acolyte#The Acolyte critical#Pro Jedi#The Jedi Order#The Sith#The Acolyte trailer#I'm sure I'll have more to say once I've absorbed it more
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Here's my take as one of the very few High Republic fans, since most of y'all have already decided the show is out to Shit on the Jedi. Have some context.
The HR tends to be very Pro-Jedi, with a lot of emphasis on the Jedi being a force for good, but is drawn to things like militarization, and insularism due to circumstances that they NEED to confront, because they are the Good Guys.
Evil David vs Good Goliath is the bread and butter of the HR, from the Path of the Open Hand to the Nihil, it's always been about defending Light and Life in the HR. Messages about how bad the Jedi and the Republic are very common in the HR. The Nihil talk a lot about how The Republic and the Jedi want to destroy their way of life (ie: murdering and raiding people). As well as the Open Hand saying the Jedi are abusing the Force by helping people with it. This isn't any different honestly
#the acolyte#star wars#Anti-Jedi#pro-jedi#high republic#star wars the high republic#pro jedi#anti jedi
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Sabine's Training
so in isolation I don't have a problem with Ashoka training Sabine or any other non-sensitive (I could do without the potshots at the order though), we've already seen shades of the possiblity with Chirrut in rouge one.
However I remember hearing that part of The Acolyte is going to criticize the Jedi for not training non-sensitives and can't help but feel like we're being set up for a wave of "the sith are right" and "the elitist Jedi are hoarding power".
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