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namorthesubmariner · 2 years

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“Namor was never white to begin with”: A look into Sub-Mariner comics, the Biracial Coding of Namor, the origins of the Atlanteans, Mutants, and the upcoming Live Action Namor

Many people who have followed me here, on twitter or my personal blog know that I have been very vocal about Namor being played by an Actor of Color for many years. I have written two major posts about this subject but also mention it in countless posts, meta, and discussions. Many of what you read here will be a repeat of that but I thought that I would gather everything into one post as well as talk about the casting of Tenoch Huerta as Namor in Black Panther: Wakanda Forever (2022)

(Jan 9th, 2019 Meta Post / June 7th, 2021 twitter thread)

“guys Namor was never white to begin with”- Saladin Ahmed, Comic Writer (source)

continued below the cut~

Namor the Sub-Mariner was created in April 1939 by Bill Everett, and for everyone who looks at the surface aka Namor's pale skin, and declares him to be a white character please look closer. Namor has always been coded as a Biracial character of color. I know many people like to apply Modern concepts to older comics but we really need to understand comics within the context and time frame when they were written to fully understand the concept behind them.

Character Design

It’s 1939, there are many characters of color used in racist or stereotypical ways within comics, many older comics have racism and racist depictions. I am not excusing this but also the main focus of this meta is to explain why Namor isn’t white. I will be posting panels that showcase Namor and Atlanteans as being coded as "other" aka non white people or simply as a non white character. I personally believe they are coded as an indigenous/native people. This was written into the character since his first comic. If you want to point out how the colors shift and change, I would like to point out to you that back in the early days of comics, the colors were unreliable, reading this article will help you to better understand how they changed, Atlantis Blues.

The very first time we see Namor, his original character design by Bill Everett depicts Namor with an angular face, arched eyebrows, pointed ears, red hair, and blue toned skin. Nothing about this screams “all american blond haired, square jawed comic book hero” because Namor wasn’t that. From his very first depiction Namor was “Othered” by his red hair and feyish ears, not to mention his character was quickly established as morally grey, making him the oldest and first comic anti-hero, as well as the oldest coded bi-racial character due to his parents being of two different races. To be Othered is defined as: one considered by members of a dominant group as alien, exotic, threatening, or inferior (as because of different racial, sexual, or cultural characteristics). People of Color are often Othered by White people in real life and in fiction.

Why do I mention the red hair? Unlike today’s perception of red hair, history usually paints characters with red hair in a negative light, such things like the “Red Headed Step Child” trope existed within Namor who was treated as an outcast both among humans and ostracized within his own people. The Red Headed Step Child trope is defined as: A child whose coloring is different from the rest of the family, often calling the Mother and Child morals into question, in addition to mistreatment happening towards the child due to the belief it was born a Bastard. Namor’s hair would later be changed to a black color.

For a further look into Namor’s character design by Everett then read: “The Brillance of Bill Everett’s Sub-Mariner, Marvel’s Superman”.

So within the first page that Namor appears it’s clear that Everett has purposefully “Othered” Namor, a character who is born of a royal mother, Princess Fen, (a Submariner later Atlantean) and sea captain Leonard McKenzie (a human). A child born of the union of sea and earth. Duality is an important aspect for Namor’s character and essential to understanding his character. Namor is never one thing, he is always more.

From Submariners to Atlanteans

What is this? Fen is a Submariner? Why yes, all the characters and backstory that you know now and has been canon since the Silver Age were never Atlantean to begin with! Everett’s race for his original characters were all called “Submariners”, no hyphen, and they lived in the ocean near Antarctica. The very first mention of Atlantis and Namor’s claim to an Atlantean heritage comes from Sub-Mariner Comics (1941) #31 claims that Namor's people are descendants of Atlantis so that was in the Golden Age and far before Namor's reentery to comics in the Silver Age. Here is a timeline of events showing how Namor came to be Atlantean and a Mutant. I’m also including Aquaman’s origins since there is often misinformation among fans as to when exactly everything was revealed.

Golden Age

April 1939 - Namor is created by Bill Everett. (It is important to note that while Namor made his first public appearance in Marvel Comics #1, he was actually created in April 1939 for Motion Pictures Funnies Weekly, a comic that was never distributed.)

November 1939 - Namor is published in Marvel Comics (1939) #1, he is shown as the first superhero to fly under his own power due to the wings on his ankles, (source) and is the first aquatic superhero. Namor is the first anti-hero in Marvel Comics. It is established that Namor is the Half Human/Atlantean (Submariner) son of Princess Fen and Sea Captain Leonard McKenzie. Grandson to Emperor Tha-Korr. Namor is born a royal prince with duel heritage of the land and sea.

November 1941 - More Fun Comics #73 - Aquaman is published, and established to be the fully human son of a human scientist who found Atlantis and used it’s secret science to give his son the ability to breath underwater. Aquaman was never created as a half human/half atlantean character like Namor.

January 1949 - Sub-Mariner Comics (1941) #31 - The first time Namor mentions that he and his people are descendants of Atlantis.

May 1954 - Human Torch (1940) #38 - Marvel (Timely/Atlas) makes a sly reference that Namor is the “Original Aquaman”

February 1955 - Sub-Mariner Comics (1941) #38 - The Origin of Namor’s Ankle Wings is revealed, which makes me believe the inspiration for the X-Men’s mutantism comes from Namor. As the prototype mutant Namor’s story is very similar to how the X-Men mutants would later come into their powers. As a teen, Namor’s ankle wings manifested during a traumatic event where his life and his mother’s life was at stake, and using his wings he was able to fly them both to freedom.

Silver Age

May 1959 - Adventure Comics #260 - Retcons Aquaman into being the Half Human/Half Atlantean son of Lighthouse Keeper Tom Curry and Atlanna of Atlantis.

Fantastic Four (1961) #4 - Namor enters the Silver Age.

Fantastic Four (1961) Annual 1 published July 1963 - Namor is the Human/Atlantean Prince of Atlantis, and also Marvel’s First Mutant. The X-Men are first published September 1963.

“The First Known Mutant”

And that is why Marvel calls Namor their “First Mutant” because he was in real world time the First Published Mutant. Later stories of characters like Apocalypse doesn’t change the fact that Namor is the First Mutant, and Marvel would often use it in their promotion and editorial, “Marvel’s First and Mightiest Mutant” & Namor: The First Mutant, arts by Jae Lee

And there you have it, the origin of Namor, his mutantism, and how Aquaman was created after Namor and later changed to be more like Namor, even casting an Actor of Color to portray the Aquaman who has always been white in the comics. I was never against the casting of Momoa, in fact I liked the Aquaman movie and am looking forward to the next one, but I did want to point out that Aquaman had been taking/borrowing elements of Namor’s character since the beginning.

The reason I bring this up is that many articles going around now are saying that Marvel changing Atlantis to Talocan to avoid it being too similar to Aquaman, but as you have seen it was always the opposite, Aquaman and Atlantis copied Namor. However I think it’s more that Coogler and the cast/crew of Black Panther: Wakanda Forever are bringing Namor back to his original roots, and are creating a world that makes sense for them for the movie so this choice has nothing to do with Aquaman.

Coding in Comics

Taken straight from the comics themselves, here are several examples as to why Namor is coded as a Biracial PoC character:

(As stated above; the color printing in comics in that era was not the best hence why Namor and Fen are blond, this is a remastered comic page keeping to the original colors)

Marvel Comics (1939) #1 / Sub-Mariner Comics 70th Anniversary(reprint/recolor)

Princess Fen explains why Atlanteans (then called Submariners) hate the white surface humans who hurt their home and people. Emperor Tha-Korr calls upon her to spy on the "White Monsters" thus establishing that Atlanteans do not see themselves the same as white humans. Fen is described as most closely resembling the female of the White Race, this has more to do with the fact that she looked more human than the males of her people, who looked more amphibious. (A fantasy/Scifi trope often used: Sexy Dimorphism )

"Go now to the land of the white people!" Fen says to her son, and so Namor goes, to wage war and Avenge his people.

This panel is not always shown in context, but it is also from the first issue. Namor & Dorma make trouble on the surface then Namor tells Dorma to return home as he continues his way to the city and continue his mission.

“And so Namor dives into the ocean again - on his way to further adventures in his crusade against white men!”

Marvel Mystery Comics #2 opens with Everett directly saying that Namor is in a war against the white man. Not every subtle way to once again point out that Namor doesn't consider himself a white man, his father may have been white and passed on his skin color to his son, but Namor was raised among his mother's people and his mother's side isn't white. Yes, they are a fantasy race but they are certainly coded as a non-white people.

Marvel Mystery Comics #3 - Namor rages about the harm Betty Dean's people, "white devils", have done to his people.

“Hate you? Yes. I hate you - and with good reason! You White Devils have persecuted and tormented my people for years - just as you are killing each other off now, in this war!”

Namor speaks of his Tribe - Marvel Mystery Comics #4. By the way at this point in the comics, Namor and his people live in the south pole/waters. Namor also had an ice palace, or ice house. I won't say Namor is Inuit but I do believe inspiration was used for the submariners.

In golden age war era comics, which I know has lots of slurs and caricatures, but in this issue Namor is not a caricature but instead is mistaken for a Japanese soldier Sub-Mariner Comics #5

Namor being called ‘squinty’ by Hank Pym in reference to his eyes in Avengers (1963) #71. This term is derogatory towards Asian people who have monolids and is a known insult.

Namor is also described with "slanted eyes" - The Defenders (1972) #1

Nita (Namor's cousin) speaks about how similar Atlantean culture is to Asian culture. New Warriors (1990) #2

Also, not all Atlanteans are white, they are shown in a range of different surface human looks when they come on land/take serum or potions to breath on land. So there is no excuse for this whole "Atlanteans are white" nonsense. Wolverine (2003) #44

Namor is said to look Japanese in The Marvels Project (2009) #3

A twitter thread I found interesting and wanted to share talks of the the subject of Namor's backstory/being biracial/othering in fantasy media as discussed by Naomi Clark (source)

We have now established without a doubt that Namor’s original origins and moments over the comics through the years showcase that Namor is Not White, he was always written as as an ambiguously biracial native character. The Atlanteans are a fantasy race. Atlanteans are not a real, they cannot be White because they are not real, and as I’ve shown you they were never even White to begin with. The outcry by a number of “fans” that occurred when the casting for Namor was announced was made by people who do not understand the source material, their whining of “black or brown washing” is a tactic that often happens and all they want is to silence fans and fans of color, relying only on the surface looks of Namor’s white passing skin to hate on the new direction of the Atlanteans in the upcoming Black Panther: Wakanda Forever, so I implore fans to simply ignore those “fans” and remember that representation is important in comics and movies.

Live Action Namor as played by Tenoch Huerta

Was the coding in the comics something that we could call good representation of a Biracial Character by today’s standards? No, not really, but the fact that it IS THERE, and it’s been there since the beginning is worth attention.

What’s more there have been people who have seen Namor in various incarnations, in comics, in cartoons and were immediately drawn to his “Otherness” which is why it being represented in the upcoming Black Panther: Wakanda Forever makes it more important than ever before. Simply put, a white actor would have never been able to grasp the essence of Namor.

Kurly Tlapoyawa:

“It was on Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends,” Tlapoyawa tells Inverse, recalling the 1981 animated series. I was like, ‘That guy looks different,’” Tlapoyawa remembers. “He didn’t look like a white guy.” Namor’s otherness resonated through the screen to Tlapoyawa, who describes himself back then as “a young, angry Chicano” trying to figure out his place in the world. “If you look at the older comic books, it always talked about Namor and his war against the white man. That appealed to me as a Chicano kid — a non-white hero as one of the original Marvel heroes.” (source)

Benedict Wong:

When I was watching all these Marvel films, I was always looking and feeling crestfallen. Where were all the Asian superheroes? I was pretending in my mind that the Sub-Mariner was actually East Asian, because he looked East Asian. Somehow I was trying to look for a hero. (source)

Namor being played by a Native Mexican actor is more comic accurate than casting any white actor. Before the trailer for Black Panther: Wakanda Forever was released, back when the RUMOR of the Tenoch casting there was a rush of people trying to “cancel” Tenoch on Twitter and other sites, many insults, and bad faith arguments, even taking his words written in Spanish out of context to translate and try to paint him as a bad person. Once again racism in Fandom was trying to wage a war on Representation but luckily the majority of people have embraced Tenoch as Namor.

Namor will be played here by Mexican actor Tenoch Huerta, previously seen in The Forever Purge and Tigers Are Not Afraid – with this incarnation of the character inspired by the culture and history of Mesoamerica. “You can take Atlantis from Greek myth, or you can adapt from a real culture,” argues Huerta. Rather than the ruler of Atlantis, on the screen he’s the ruler of Talocan (source)

Black Panther: Wakanda Forever will be the first Live Action debut of Namor the Sub-Mariner but unlike his comic counterpart, MCU Namor will not be from the Fictional Atlantis, but rather from a newly created mix of Mesoamerican Cultures/Countries, like how Black Panther’s Wakanda was the Afro-Futurism representation of several different African Nations/People so will the new Talocan represent a different take, one that will have a wide reach across the world. While I am not a Mesoamerican Historian, I do encourage people to learn/read more about the history and to understand that this is a fantasy take rooted in real history. This article talks a bit about that subject and how racism is often rooted in the Eurocentric take on Atlantis.

I could not believe it when I first learned that Tenoch Huerta was to play Namor, because it felt like I was talking to the wind for years trying to get fans and people to understand that we shouldn’t have a white actor for Namor, and there have been many fans who argued with me even after I would show them the proof within the comics. So to find out that not only was I getting a Native Non-White actor but one who is outspoken about the racism and stereotyping he faces for having dark skin it felt like Coogler had picked the perfect person to bring to life my favorite character because Tenoch would be able to understand Namor’s character. Namor’s struggle against American/White Imperialism, his Anti-Capitalist stance, his Eco-Warrior efforts to save his people and oceans from the pollution and corruption of the surface world and his struggles as a character whose home is constantly being destroyed. Namor is a proud flawed character, a prince, a king, but most importantly he cares for his people. So Tenoch reaffirming that we would not be getting a villain in the movie but a more complex take on this anti-hero is wonderful. Tenoch’s many interviews talk about how inclusion and representation is important and he felt the movie brought that with Wakanda, Namor and Talocan in the movie.

I am greatly looking forward to this new era of Namor and what it brings.

#tenoch huerta #black panther: wakanda forever #namor #namor the sub mariner #namor mckenzie #comic meta #long post #aquaman #arthur curry #mod: imperiuswrecked #coding #comics #biracial #mixed race #mesoamerican represention #representation matters

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daisy-mooon · 1 year

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Races included in Wakanda Forever:

African and African American

Mesoamerican

White American

Races not included in Wakanda Forever:

East Asian

Desi

Arabic

South American

A lot more

Like a lot more

Races people focus on when they say Wakanda Forever is racist for lack of inclusion:

White American

This is not a criticism of the inclusion of Wakanda Forever, this is a criticism of an argument I see springing up way too often. My point is not that Wakanda Forever is racist because it doesn't include every race, my point is that Wakanda Forever isn't racist to white people.

#HMMMM #HMMMMMMMM #HMMMMMMMMM #personally they should have reduced the white characters screentime by about 60%#like ross and valentina were more like ad breaks in the film than anything else #this is NOT dissing the representation in wakanda forever #the inclusion of mesoamerican and maya culture is STUNNING #this is sorely to point out how - mostly white - critics are calling the film racist for bizarre reasons #wakanda forever #black panther #black panther wakanda forever #mcu #marvel #mcu discourse #black panther discourse #wakanda forever discourse #racism #racism tw #racism mention

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vorthosjay · 1 month

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Hi Jay. Not wanting to sound mean, but I really think it must be commented and that there's no softer way of doing that: the company's statement of Thunder Junction being an inhabitated plane prior to MoM is not a honest way of capitalizing on a sellable trope without touching its uncomfortable issues. It's even disrespectful. They have done it in a less flagrant way with Kaladesh and both Ixalan iterations, but now they've gotten too far with Thunder Junction. Colonialism is too big an issue to simply being put under the carpet as it never existed and we could just enjoy the sunny part of the history. I really hope Hasbro as a company acknowledges this and changes its way of dealing with the theme. Thanks for letting me pointing this.

Look, you caught me on a bad day, so I'm going to be as polite as possible but let's start with the foundation that this is not a complaint to direct at me. I have no control over any of this. Mark Rosewater exists and takes feedback on Tumblr.

But, let's talk about it, because I've seen some folks take this to extremes.

First off, I've seen a lot of well meaning folks speaking up on behalf of hypothetical indigenous americans, but I'd love to get takes from folks this actually impacts. I'd love for Wizards to post something about their work with cultural consultants, for sure. But the only actual thing I've seen so far is a great story from Magic's first indigenous american author. And when you're speaking on someone else's behalf, you tend to miss things. Like, Kaladesh is not the great representation of south asian culture that you might think when you jumped to it, and it's okay if you didn't know that, but it sort of proves the point that it's very difficult to actually protest on someone else's behalf. And I just haven't heard from anyone who has also mentioned they speak from authority or are impacted by this. That doesn't mean you're wrong, necessarily.

But here's the thing. Thunder Junction isn't history. It takes cues from the American West, sure, but it's a fake world. And sometimes it's okay for a fake world to ignore the bad things that happens in real life and create something more aspirational. Magic does this all the time. Magic doesn't have homophobia, but that isn't really realistic or representative of the real world, is it?

No one, and I mean literally no one, came to me and said that people of color needed to be ostracized and not allowed to work alongside the white people in the demon mob families of New Capenna. That racism was real, it was systemic, and it was violent. But did it need to be tackled in a fantasy crime drama based on america in the 20s? Should it have been? I don't think anyone would have enjoyed it as much. Sometimes it's just fun to play gangster.

Similarly, the colonization and manifest destiny that was the reality of the American West was tragic, but does that need to be our only depiction of indigenous peoples - being colonized? If they were erased completely from the narrative, that would be awful, but can't they just have fun being cool thunder slingers? The Atiin were developed with a consultant, and if you want answers ask Wizards to talk about it.

There's a reason the Oltec were depicted as being sealed off from the Immortal Sun drama that had happened on the surface. To have an aspirational mesoamerican culture that wasn't affected by the Dusk Legion and Azor and all that.

To put it in another perspective, does every period piece featuring black americans need to feature systemic racism to be respectful? Is Bridgerton disrespectful (I mean probably but not for that reason)?

The reason I've framed a lot of this as questions is because I don't necessarily think I know the right answer, especially not for a fantasy card game. I've worked with tribal governments in my emergency management career and spent a week on the Navajo Nation, and talked a lot about perspective on things, and I would not presume to know what the right answer to all of this is.

Edit: to be clear, Could it have been handled better? Probably. I will never deny that. But also it’s a complicated and fraught topic and I’d love to hear from the people wizards contracted who actually know what they’re talking about.

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eterut · 1 year

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I wanna talk about the prehispanic and mesoamerican representation of music in Black Panther: Wakanda Forever.

The music was my main motivation to go see the film (alongside with the introducing of Tenoch, one of my favorite people inthe world).

The day of the Mexican premiere, my facebook feed was full of photos of musicians (whom I follow for their prehispanic instrumental and amazing work thru the years in the band TRIBU and colabs with musicians Arturo Meza, Jorge Reyes and Rastrillos) attending the premiere and revealing that they participated in the making of the music for the film!

The news clearly moved me to inexplicable levels because those musicians: Ramiro Ramirez Duarte and Alejandro Mendez Rojas, have spent decades working and promoting research, practice and recognition of prehispanic instruments and how mesoamerican music might have sounded.

In addition, these musicians (one with degree in ethnomusicology and anthropological research and the other as a member of the Otomi indigenous community in the north of the territory where I was born and live), have been and are part of projects and musical groups that have given original music and prehispanic instruments the place they deserve in the broad definition of Mexican music.

In an interview with La Silla Rota Guanajuato They explain that "Prehispanic music no longer exists, from that past only the instruments remain, their melodies".

Alejandro Méndez Rojas commented that is unknown how the music of that time was; everything was destroyed in the 16th century because the Spanish prohibited prehispanic musicians and everything that had to do with ancient culture, they stopped making the instruments, there were no longer any manufacturers.

Did you get chills when the Talokani first came out and hypnotized the ship's crew with their voices? This is what you hear:

Did you feel the love and pain through Namor's origin story? This was what accompanied that feeling:

The pieces Namor, Lost in the depths, Yucatán, Namor's Throne, Imperius Rex and Sink the ship also have remarkable elements from prehispanic instruments and voices.

Hearing the distinctive sounds of snails, flutes, rattles, drums, and canes at epic and emotional moments in the film made my heart race and pride prickle my skin.

About "Árboles bajo el mar", Alejandro Mendez Rojas explain in their social media:

"In this piece I composed all the sounds made with prehispanic instruments. I used a Tepehuano bow, tortoise shells percussed by Huave deer antlers, Mayan double-diaphragm whistle, Mayan trumpets, Tezcatlipoca flute, Mayan tunkul among other instruments made by me.

Thank you for allowing me to promote Mesoamerican musical instruments through their sounds in this film and thanks to all the people who collaborated on this piece."

With their work and passion for the music, they become heroes too:

“One way to ensure that instruments are not lost is to build them again, to execute them, to carry out work so that they last, so that they remain alive.

I think that the instruments of prehispanic Mexico deserve that boost, that promotion to enter a world where there is musical diffusion, the instruments deserve that stage to be better know, we have worked with them for many years, have cost us diffusion"

Because it is another form of representation, it is another way of saying "we are here", but on a large scale, it is an opportunity to continue preserving our culture, our roots and to allow it not to go out.

"Mexico has a wonderful ancestral legacy, worthy of being recovered and put into circulation again, the instruments will come to life in every human being who listens to them"

Gracias señores Ramiro y Alejandro por ser tan chingones y seguir trabajando por darle a nuestra herencia y a nuestras raíces la dignidad que merecen. Felicidades por este trabajo tan hermoso y emotivo. Y muchas gracias por ser parte de mi formación y herencia musical. Me siento orgullosa y feliz por todo eso 🫀

Please, listen all the music from the original soundtrack and give them a lot of love. Thank you Ryan Coogler and Ludwig Goransson for let it be this wonderful dignity manifesto that is Wakanda Forever.

🖤🤎

#wakanda forever #black panther #black panther wakanda forever #namor #tenoch huerta #representation is important #te amamos tenoch #prehispanic music #mesoamerica #prehispanico #ando bien pinche emocionada que ni yo me soporto #Spotify

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indigenous-character-tournament · 5 months

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Would you say that the indigenous people including Chel from The Road to El Dorado are Muisca, considering that the myth of El Dorado came from wishful thinking of greedy conquistadors wanting more gold after "discovering" the Muisca people and the Golden Man or El Hombre Dorado?

My issues with The Road to El Dorado are pretty numerous and the portrayal of the Indigenous people of El Dorado is at the center of it. Colombia is my home country and while I am not Muiska, I am Indigenous to Colombia (Iku Arhuaco) and it is what I plan to do in my graduate studies. Now I don't have the time to really like, put sources since this is going straight from the mouth. (Also rip english in case i mess up)

To answer your question before I delve into it, I would say no, that I would not consider them Muiska. The people of El Dorado bear little resemblance to the actual Muiska, be it historical or now, other than the tie between El Dorado and the Muiska people. I will say that I also won't accept any submissions from the movie as well.

Chel and her people are quite divorced from what the Muiska culture is. I've seen many people even confuse it with more Mesoamerican tribes.

The only one who truly wears gold is the zipa, such as shown in the middle image (Tisquesusa) and the legend of El Dorado comes from the ceremony at Lake Guatavita, where it was said the zipa would cover himself in gold dust and make offers to gods.

The true clothing worn is actually plentiful. As skilled weavers of cotton and sheep wool, the clothing focuses on geometrical and animal-based designs that were sacred. There is little to see in any of the designs, and in the case of Chell, she is barely clothed which is definitely not something that bodes well representation-wise considering how sexualized she is.

The architecture is completely different as well, with no true reference to what it actually looks like:

What is most important to realize is that there are still Muiska people in Colombia today, and there was no input from them in the movie at all.

It's an issue a lot of these movies had and it made them worse. I could probably go on for much longer, but I should probably cut this down. But yeah, I wouldn't consider them Muiska. (Sorry for the late reply it has been like a solid few months since this asks lmao)

#ict asks #ict posts #yeah i'll tag it as that

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whencyclopedia · 6 days

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Xipe Totec

Xipe Totec (pron. Xi-pe To-tec) or 'Flayed One' in Nahuatl, was a major god in ancient Mesoamerican culture and particularly important for the Toltecs and Aztecs. He was considered the god of spring, the patron god of seeds and planting and the patron of metal workers (especially goldsmiths) and gemstone workers. He is equivalent to the Red Tezcatlipoca, patron of Cuauhtli (eagle), the unfavourable 15th Aztec day-name and he was represented by the date 1 Océlotl.

Early Origins

Xipe Totec perhaps originated with the Olmec culture and developed from their ancient God VI. Another possible origin is from the Yope civilization in the southern highlands of Guerrero. The first representations of the god in art, however, date to the Post-classical period (9th to 12th century CE) in the Mazapan culture at Texcoco. The god was a major Aztec deity and was also worshipped by the Tlaxcaltecans, Zapotecs, Mixtecs, Tarascan and Huastecs. The late Post-classical Maya also adopted Xipe Totec and representations of the god survive at Oxkintok, Chichen Itza and Mayapan.

In Mesoamerican mythology Xipe Totec was the son of the primordial androgynous god Ometeotl and, specifically in Aztec mythology, he was the brother of those other three major gods Tezcatlipoca, Huizilopochtli and Quetzalcoatl. Sometimes credited with being a creator god along with his brothers, Xipe Totec was also closely associated with death, which resulted in him being considered the source of diseases amongst mankind. However, the god also received many offerings from worshippers calling for him to cure illnesses, especially eye ailments.

#History #AztecReligion #AztecSacrifice #XipeTotec #WHE #[#]

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artifacts-archive · 3 months

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Hummingbird Bloodletter

Olmec, Middle Preclassic, 900-300 BCE

The act of bloodletting played a central role in the rituals of many ancient Mesoamerican cultures. In a typical bloodletting ritual, rulers or ritual specialists cut or pierced their ears, cheeks, tongues, or genitals. In representations of these rituals, the drops of blood are collected on papers in a basket, presumably to be burned later as an offering or communion with the gods. Although our most abundant evidence for bloodletting comes from the later Maya and Aztec cultures, this practice can be traced back in time to the Pre- Classic period and, in the case of this object, to the Olmec culture.

#artifact #Olmec #pre Columbian #Mexico #bloodletter

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thepastisalreadywritten · 2 months

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Aztec Sun Stone (Calendar Stone) depicts five consecutive worlds of the sun from Aztec mythology.

Stone is not, therefore, in any sense a functioning calendar, but rather it is an elaborately carved solar disk, which for Aztecs and other Mesoamerican cultures represented rulership.

At the top of the stone is a date glyph (13 reed), which represents both beginning of the present sun, fifth and final one according to mythology, and the actual date 1427 CE, thereby legitimizing the rule of Itzcoatl (who took power in that year) and creating a bond between divine and mankind.

Stone was discovered in December 1790 CE in central plaza of Mexico City. It now resides in National Museum of Anthropology in that city.

The richly carved basalt stone was once a part of the architectural complex of Temple Mayor and measures 3.58m in diameter, is 98cm thick, and weighs 25 tons.

Stone would originally have been laid flat on the ground and possibly anointed with blood sacrifices.

When it was discovered, the stone was lying flat and upside down, perhaps in an attempt to prevent the final cataclysm — fall of fifth and final sun as Aztec world fell apart following the attack from Old World.

At the centre of the stone is a representation of either the sun god Tonatiuh (the Day Sun) or Yohualtonatiuh (the Night Sun) or the primordial earth monster Tlaltecuhtli, in the latter case representing the final destruction of the world when the fifth sun fell to earth.

The tongue is perhaps also a sacrificial knife and, sticking out, it suggests a thirst for blood and sacrifice.

Around the central face at four points are other four suns, which successively replaced each other after gods Quetzalcoatl and Tezcatlipoca struggled for control of the cosmos until the era of the fifth sun was reached.

The suns are known by the day name on which their final destruction occurred.

Beginning from the top right, there is the first sun Nahui Ocelotl (4 - Jaguar), top left is the second sun Nahui Ehécatl (4 - Wind), bottom left the third sun Nahui Quiáhuitl (4 - Rain), and bottom right is the fourth sun Nahui Atl (4 - Water).

On either side of the central face are two jaguar heads or paws, each clutching a heart, representing the terrestrial realm.

The band running immediately around the suns is segmented into the 20 Aztec day-names (hence Calendar Stone name).

Then there is a decorative ring surrounded by another ring depicting symbols, which represent turquoise and jade, symbols of the equinoxes and solstices, and the colours of the heavens.

Two heads at bottom centre represent fire serpents, and their bodies run around perimeter of the stone with each ending in a tail.

Four cardinal and the inter-cardinal directions are also indicated with larger and lesser points respectively.

#Aztec Sun Stone #Calendar Stone #Aztec mythology #carved solar disk #date glyph #National Museum of Anthropology

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southwest-pottery-bracket · 1 month

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Round 1, Match 1: Northern Polychromes

I call these the "Northern Polychromes" because they are only (in Fourmile's case) or predominantly (in Salado types' case) found in Arizona and New Mexico.

Salado Polychrome

Left, Gila Polychrome oval bowl (AD 1300-1450); Right, Tonto Polychrome olla (AD 1340-1450). Arizona and New Mexico.

vs.

Fourmile Polychrome

Fourmile Polychrome bowls, AD 1325-1400. Arizona.

More information about each type below the cut:

Salado Polychrome

Cliff Polychrome bowl, southeastern Arizona, AD 1350-1450.

Am I biased because this is what I'm writing my dissertation about so I've been thinking about Salado polys nonstop for about 3 years straight? MAYBE. But that's because they're interesting!

Salado polychrome is a collective name for various black, white, and red types of Roosevelt Red Ware. Pinto, Gila, and Tonto polychrome are the three main types, but there are a lot of described type variants.

Around AD 1275, there was a huge drought that lasted 20 years and impacted the whole Southwest. People moved out of the northern Southwest (Mesa Verde, the Four Corners area, southern Utah, northern Arizona) en masse. If you've ever heard of the "mystery" of the "disappearance" of the Anasazi - it's not a mystery, and they didn't disappear. There was a drought, crop failure, social/political instability, and they moved south to where there were population centers and perennial rivers. Some of these immigrants integrated into pre-existing towns; others formed their own enclave settlements.

And right around this time, a new style of pottery became popular in central/southern Arizona and western New Mexico. Like, really popular. Rapidly widespread, all but replacing the previous black-on-white and red-on-buff painted pottery. Gila polychrome (the most common type of Salado polychrome) is notable for being the most widespread decorated ware in the archaeological Southwest. Why?

Archaeologists debated this for decades upon decades. Were the Salado an immigrant group who brought this ware from the Tonto Basin, from the Sinagua, from the Colorado Plateau, from Mexico? Was it a Hohokam development? Was it Mesoamerican influence? You can read the debates back and forth in the 60s-80s and FEEL the palpable frustration!

Modern scholars basically agree that there's no "Salado" culture, that rather Ancestral Pueblo immigrants from the Kayenta and Tusayan regions of northeastern Arizona developed it after they moved to the south. These Salado polychrome pots weren't centrally made and traded widely, they were predominantly made locally to where they were found. But does it represent a retention/renewal of a Kayenta immigrant diaspora identity, or an integrative ideology that brought together immigrants and locals? And where do the Mesoamerican motifs come from?

I'm arguing more from a Kayenta immigrant diaspora identity marker cohesion-after-migration perspective, but it's a super interesting time of upheaval, reorganization, and social dynamism in the Southwest that really set the stage for the modern Pueblos and tribal groups we know today.

Salado polychromes themselves are defined by a red-slipped exterior, a white field, and black designs on white. The black does not touch the red. The exteriors of bowls are usually left plain red, with all the elaborate decoration on the inside. Sometimes there's so much white you can barely see the red. Two- and four-fold rotational symmetry is common; twinned elements are common, but each twin is usually slightly different from the other, not perfect mirrors. Abstracted representations of feathers and feathered serpents are really common too (the Mesoamerican connection). The black paint is organic, relying on a pigment called beeweed - which may have been sourced from back up in the north, a long way to go but clearly important to the people making these pots!

Fourmile Polychrome

Fourmile Polychrome bowl, AD 1325-1400, central Arizona.

Fourmile Polychrome is a type within White Mountain Red Ware. It's basically contemporaneous with Salado Polychrome, but was made in a different, more northern distribution, by Ancestral Pueblo people who didn't move so far south and congregated around Zuni and east-central Arizona.

Dynamic and bold and more likely to be asymmetrical, Fourmile polychrome is defined by designs in black glaze paint (manganese-based mineral paint with lead in the mix, to make it glossy when it fires and melts) outlined in white.

Both of these types were made by the coil-and-scrape method common to Ancestral (and modern) Pueblo potters (though a small percentage of Salado Polychromes were made by paddle-and-anvil, an argument for the type as an integrative practice...)

#archaeology #pottery #poll #pottery poll #Fourmile Polychrome #Salado Polychrome

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handweavers · 5 months

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wait BUT have you seen/do you have opinions on the new “seasian-inspired” sims 4 world

my main gripes are that it's like generic southeast asian/a mix of everything from across seasia which feels strange when the japanese pack was very clearly specifically japanese, that city inspired by san francisco was clearly san francisco, etc. but likewise selvadorada was based on a combo of mesoamerican and south american cultures so this isn't the first time they've smushed a bunch of cultures from the global south together lol. also it being part of a landlord dlc pack is crazy especially given that this is southeast asia with our incredibly tumultuous histories re: land redistribution and landlords but whatever it's electronic arts, none of this is shocking, average behaviour, etc

however i will say that even from screenshots and the ads i immediately recognized so much of the world from my own life experiences, so much of the architecture and landscape and everything reminds me of malaysia as well as my travels in indonesia (bali in particular, i suspect they looked at balinese culture a lot when making the pack) and it's so extremely rare to see anything in video games that reminds me of home that it does make me feel a bit emotional looking at it. i think people can sometimes exaggerate the value of representation in media, the idea of consumption as being the only political outlet that people are able to or can acceptably engage with etc blah blah but on a personal level it DOES feel really nice to see photos of tomarang and see home in it, to be able to inhabit a virtual world that looks more like the one i recognize and love very much rather than the usual western locales. even if it is more generic than i would like, its still accurate enough that it feels "right" to me when i look at it, so much that it actually makes me feel homesick lol. i haven't gotten the pack yet but i will at some point, i'm looking forward to it

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head---ache · 2 years

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We all agree that Knuckles is black coded. We all see it, we are all aware of this fact, it's something that a big part of the community agrees on and cares about, because, you know, representation's important and all that. However, even if I completely agree with this statement, I feel like a lot of people are ignoring another important fact about this character.

I feel like a lot of the times, when this topic about Knuckles comes up, people either ignore or flat out just forget the fact that Knuckles and his culture take a lot of inspiration from Mesoamerican cultures, specifically from Central and South América.

It's not much in his appearence, but mostly in his background as a character. We all know Knuckles comes from the Echidna Tribe, and Echidna culture takes a lot from latinamerican culture.

For starters, this is the Echidna Tribe in different Sonic media.

And these are Azteca and Maya representations.

You see the resemblance, right? And it's not just a coincidence. The developers of Sonic Adventure visited Central and South América during the development of the game to study the culture and create the Echidna Tribe!

Second point, this is Tikal.

And this is also Tikal, in Guatemala.

They literally named her after a Maya temple!

The same case here. This is Pachacamac.

And this is also Pachacamac, a peruvian sanctuary.

Another echidna named after a latinamerican temple.

Third point, this is Mystic Ruins, from Sonic Adventure.

And these are Aztec and Mayan temples.

Fourth, just this:

So yeah. I absolutely agree that more people should be made aware of the fact that Knuckles' black coded, but I wish more people were also aware of the importance that Mesoamerican cultures have on not only Knuckles but also his background and the environment he comes from. Being latinamerican myself, it really bums me out to see my culture and others' being erased and mocked (because you have no idea how many racist fanart I found of both Knuckles and Tikal when searching for the photos I used above).

That's all I have to say, I'm probably just rambling, but I really wish this came up more in conversation, because it's important to me and I believe it also is for other latinamerican people, and I really would love to see this part of such a popular character being recognized more often.

#he can be afrolatino✌️#idk maybe im making no sense but like #im just tired of seeing so much latinamerican erasure and mockery #with the whole thing of people making Encanto about queer issues when it actually is about latinamerican culture #and our representation only being fucking racist caricatures of mexican culture for the longest time #and now people only talking about Knuckles being black coded and completely ignoring the latinamerican part #it's kind of annoying #anyways!!!!#on a happier note!!!! yay!!! latinamerican knuckles!!!#latinamerican culture being important for Knuckles' character fuck yeah!!!!!#knuckles the echidna #tikal the echidna #mystic ruins #sonic adventure

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talonabraxas · 4 months

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Day Cipactli (Crocodile, known as Imix in Maya) is governed by Tonacatecuhtli, Lord of Nurturance, as its provider of tonalli (Shadow Soul) life energy. Cipactli is an auspicious day, signifying advancement and honor. It depicts energy and work, rewards and recognition. A good day for beginnings. Aztec Deity Tonacatecuhtli Talon Abraxas Tonacatecuhtli, the Aztec deity, is revered for its association with creation, fertility, and sustenance. Alongside Tonacacihuatl, they reside in the highest heaven called Omeyocan. Tonacatecuhtli represents the primal masculine principles, while Tonacacihuatl embodies the feminine aspects. They hold significance in the Aztec calendar, with their day being Cipactli, symbolizing progress and honor. Tonacatecuhtli has notable offspring such as Tezcatlipoca, Quetzalcóatl, and possible connections to Tonatiuh, the sun god. Their influence is demonstrated through punishments, such as Chantico’s transformation, and rewards, like Tezcatlipoca and Quetzalcóatl’s redemption. Tonacatecuhtli shows similarities to other Mesoamerican deities, like the Maya god of stars and fertility. The High Heaven of Omeyocan Omeyocan is the ultimate dwelling place for deities, representing the highest level of existence. It is often described as a celestial paradise, a realm where divinity thrives. In this transcendent space, Tonacatecuhtli and Tonacacihuatl hold their divine authority, overseeing the cosmic order. Tonacatecuhtli in Aztec Cosmology Tonacatecuhtli occupies a prominent position in Aztec cosmology, representing essential aspects of the celestial realm. Through various depictions and associations, Tonacatecuhtli plays a significant role in the Aztec understanding of the universe. Representations of Tonacatecuhtli as a Celestial Being Tonacatecuhtli is often portrayed as a celestial being, draped in rich garments symbolizing light. Although mistakenly associated with sun or fire deities, Tonacatecuhtli is solely representative of the sky. As a central figure in the cosmos, Tonacatecuhtli serves as the focal point around which everything revolves, bringing balance to the universe.

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fandom · 1 year

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Fandometrics In Depth: Black Panther

This post is entirely spoiler-free for those who have yet to see Marvel Studios’ Black Panther: Wakanda Forever.

It’s been an eventful five years since the original Black Panther film was released and the titular character introduced into the Marvel Cinematic Universe. As a fandom, we’ve experienced wins and losses. We got to witness history in the making and incredible representation. We watched as our heroes triumphed against Thanos and saved the universe time and time again. But we also lost a hero along the way. Midway through 2020, the world said a tragic goodbye to Chadwick Boseman, who brought T’Challa to life for the first time on the big screen, and whose memory and legacy will live on forever. In the series’ latest iteration, Black Panther: Wakanda Forever, art mimics life as the nation of Wakanda struggles to find its place in the world following the passing of its king. This new chapter brings with it a myriad of old friends and new faces, a foe unlike any we’ve seen before, and a whole new civilization that lies deep beneath the ocean.

For this impromptu trip under the sea (see what we did there?), we analyzed engagement data—that’s searches, original posts, reblogs, and likes—around tags used in the last year, starting on November 2nd, 2021, right up until when this post was written to paint you the most detailed picture possible. Let’s break down the Black Panther fandom in depth:

A nation united.

The cast and crew for the Black Panther films are hands-down some of the most incredible in the business, so naturally, this next ranking is filled with talent that goes above and beyond. Sure, the list is based purely off of conversation on Tumblr, but we personally believe they all deserve to be number one. Check out the full breakdown below:

Lupita Nyong'o | 36.17%

Angela Bassett | 16.61%

Chadwick Boseman | 15.02%

Danai Gurira | 7.92%

Tenoch Huerta | 7.39%

Letitia Wright | 5.98%

Winston Duke | 4.29%

Michaela Coel | 3.83%

Ryan Coogler | 1.96%

Dominique Thorne | 0.83%

A world divided.

With every new entry into the MCU, Marvel strengthens fans’ relationships with their favorite heroes and brings to life new faces we’ve only seen on comic book pages. This time around, we’re introduced to Namor, who rules the underwater city of Talocan. Fans are so excited to see Mesoamerican culture featured so prominently in one of the most anticipated films of the year. Below are the most popular characters in Marvel Studios’ Black Panther: Wakanda Forever, ranked:

Namor | 20.93%

T'Challa | 19.81%

Shuri | 19.00%

Okoye | 10.25%

Riri Williams | 9.27%

Nakia | 9.26%

Everett Ross | 4.15%

M'Baku | 3.67%

Queen Ramonda | 2.07%

Aneka | 1.60%

Wakanda Forever.

Marvel Studios’ Black Panther: Wakanda Forever is out in theaters now—if you’ve already seen it, we’re betting you want even more, and if you haven’t, we’ve got just the content to get you hyped up.

Marvel Studios (@marvelstudios) to keep up with incredible fanart created by the community, Answer Times, and exclusive cast interviews.

Follow the #black panther tag for GIFs, fanart, memes, and more! Don’t forget you can filter any tag from your dashboard for a spoiler-free experience. If you need a reminder for how to do that, check out this handy Tips page.

#fandometrics in depth #black panther #black panther wakanda forever #chadwick boseman #ryan coogler #letitia wright #lupita nyong'o #danai gurira #tenoch huerta #winston duke

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300iqprower · 8 months

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Ya know SMTIV, what this is actually perfect. Remember what I said about how Nasu could never be asked to show even a modicum of respect to Tezctalipoca as a figure, and how the "Tezcatlipoca" in FGO in no way has the spirit of their alleged origins?

Well I don't care much for this design either.

In fact I don't like SMT's (or more specifically Soejima's, who is still very much talented as I'll make clear) Tezcatlipoca design at all. I personally find it ugly and having an aesthetic I'm not that fond of, particularly the sort of "Bigfoot sighting" pose he has going on.

But i don't hate it, and I certainly am not morally opposed to it like FGO's, because even if I personally dislike it, ya know what it is? It's still undeniably based on Tezcatlipoca and keeps that spirit in several ways evident through design alone, let alone the way he's implemented into the game itself. It's a design that feels like it respects the culture it's taking its name from, and I'd much rather it do that than have an aesthetic I'm more fond of but lack any representation of its source material.

Just on a surface level you can see the ways in which this is meant to be Tez.

Holding a human heart with one arm, which were sacrificed to him in Aztec rituals

His body is visibly black and navy blue and made of a stony substance, which is a reference to the association many aztec gods but especially Tez had with obsidian rock, and the main symbol of Tez is an obsidian mirror.

Despite this, his other arm and legs are dissolving into smoke at the end, which is a reference to his main title of Smoking Mirror.

His skull-like head is pretty clearly meant to invokes a Calavera, which even if you didnt know the name of you've probably seen if you've ever witnessed a Day of the Dead festival.

That's all just the surface level stuff. There's plenty more if you know to look for it.

While one of his arms is visible, neither of his legs are, which fits with how Tezcatlipoca lost at least one of his legs to the giant crocodile Cipactli when the world was created

While blue isn't the primary color Tez is associated with, the use of teal/navy blue specifically fits with how he was often depicted with an almost interchangeable combination of grey-ish dark blue and black.

Despite my "bigfoot posture" remark, it very much fits Tezcatlipoca, whose spirit animal was the Jaguar, an animal well known for stalking and ambushing prey (rather than chasing it down like African big cats are known to do).

the way the smoke curls around as if forming an extremely distorted prosthetic foot matches how Tez's missing foot is specifically portrayed in the Codex Yohualli Ehécatl (AKA, the source of the image on Tez's wikipedia page), particularly with how the coloring shifts to orange-yellow at the end.

The most shaky but still worth noting claim: The emphasis on the blood flowing from the heart, combined with the gems embedded in Tez's head, could even be a reference to the Ezpitzal, which while looking very different in mesoamerican art still is no doubt connected, given how the key traits are flowing blood and embedding precious stone in [a crown above] the head.

So....do I like this design? No, personally, not really. I'm way too much of an edgelord to settle for such a toned down and subtle design for a figure like Tezcatlipoca.

Do I respect this design? Absolutely, zero question. It's the kind of design you could never get if they didn't at least TRY to research Tezcatlipoca, let alone do so well (at least i can only assume well based on the result). That's the difference between this design and "some white guy from the GAP who likes guns". You can tell they gave a shit, not just in general but specifically in regards to the culture being referenced.

(Oh, and also unlike FGO Tezcatlipoca, I don't need to be told "someone famous drew it" to be able to figure out someone talented drew it. )

#none of this even gets into mechanics like how you combine Quetz with a Heart and an Aztec god of night to get Tez #or how he has extremely high magic and mana as a figure known for their wisdom #or how he's a Zealot which represents how he is dark but not evil and has been harmed for his beliefs/actions in his own myth #hence how this design emphasizes his missing limb(s) much more than his original design. Pre-Strange Journey he #had a different much more antagonistic portrayal so he was seen as a mainstay of the Vile race #which fits how Tezcatlipoca is often misconstrued as a pure evil being rather than the Yin to Quetz's Yang #fgo #shin megami tensei #smt iv #peak character design #i may not personally like it #but it's absolutely good character design #fate grand order #fgo tezcatlipoca #tezcatlipoca #mythology #aztec mythology #long post #nasu is a hack #dont play gachas kids #character analysis

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