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yoonsdoll · 5 months

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universe - yjh

content : n-i!jeonghan x gn!reader ; angst ; 0.5k words ; one mention about having a family together ! - maybe this universe is against you both. an : i dont know why i did this to myself

two years ago today yoon jeonghan decided to confess his love. he swore that if he kept it hidden any longer it’d tear him apart. the most beautiful moment in his life was meeting you, right after the day he finally made you his.

he remembers wishing to every shooting star he saw that you’d accept his confession - that you’d accept him. that you’d accept the idea of holding hands on walks, you’d accept the idea of going on dates together and hugging each other in the warmth of his bed. that you’d accept the idea of his lips on yours after what felt like years of waiting.

and you did. but you didn’t just accept it, you welcomed it with a smile on your face, an exploding heart, and an ‘i love you.’

you craved his touch on cold days, his voice on sadder ones. and when you told him that, he internally cursed at himself for not confessing earlier, yet being content that he could now provide you with everything you need.

‘i wish for us to be together in every universe, no matter the circumstances.’ he told you, ‘i love you so much, and i want to keep that love, whoever we may be.’

somehow he always managed to say the right things, he made you feel so loved. so wanted. and you did the same back. you took care of him on his worst days, and you made him smile even wider on his best ones. he was so full of your love, he believed your hearts were intertwined.

‘..do you think we will get married in this universe?’ you replied.

‘i don't have a single doubt.’

‘how come?’

‘i just don't think there is ever a reality where i won't ask you to marry me.’

yoon jeonghan wasn’t a liar. he didn’t wish for anything more than to marry you and create a cute little family with you, living comfortably thanks to his well paying job and growing old together as you experienced everlasting love.

and so when you and him decided to end things off due to an unresolved argument, he was heartbroken. of course you were too; waves of sadness crashing against your heart. but ever since he lost you, he lost home. realisation that the once shared-dreams were now nothing but a fragment of the past.

it was bittersweet. he hated himself for not fighting for you, for that night where instead of impulsive words spilling out his lips, he could have been apologising and swearing to have made a mistake on his half. yet a part of him wanted to believe that it was for the better, that you’d be happier without him - even though he was aware that wasn’t the case.

maybe someday he will get the courage to tell you just how much he misses you. maybe he will put a matching ring on your finger if things go well. or maybe, this universe is the odd one out, one where you are simply not meant to be.

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kimdokja-real · 9 months

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This showed up on my dash today and immediately made me think of Bottom Yoo Joonghyuk and Top Kim Dokja Granted, it's not totally capturing the "KDJ can be the strong one" (cuz he's definitely worked several days in his life) and the (very important and I would love to see more of this) "YJH deserves to be taken care of/is loved" but like... the vibes are there, right?

'fancylad boy-king type' Kim Dokja is literally a Demon King! Demon Kings are dominant and powerful, not a false sense of power only to make it hot when he bottoms (like what most JoongDok is like when Kim Dokja is legitimately powerful).

Yoo Joonghyuk definitely deserves to be taken care of and loved! Gonna write a post about how Yoo Joonghyuk should be appreciated more.

And I literally don't know, maybe it's the image, they can't see or it's hard to picture a muscular man at the bottom, and a slender man at the top (he's gonna enhance his body to save Yoo Joonghyuk though) but to be honest I look for personality and Yoo Joonghyuk's rough, gruff, cold personality makes him a very cute bottom. Cold but when he's bottom, he gets all hot and flustered, it's so cute. It's the moe gap. And Kim Dokja's sly messing with people personality makes him a hot top.

It is always this way, not only for Kim Dokja and Yoo Joonghyuk. For a bigger male and smaller male yaoi pairing (when seriously, Kim Dokja is almost freaking 180cm, just 4cm away, he isn't small, he isn't that smaller than Yoo Joonghyuk.) There are certain things people especially girls want to see in their favourite characters (I mean yaoi is originally made for women), from their own experience likely and there will be self-projecting (or just writing off own experiences?) to a point it's only human and it's for some reason easier to see the more slender man bottoming. Because it's that way in yaoi manga, and guys are stereotypically masculine too I guess.

But yaoi manga is fetishization of gay people and pairings, just for people to enjoy the sex scenes, and for female empowerment in Japan (I did a paper on that!), maybe a little cute romance, and it may not be the same for an actual male-male couple. But people have their kinks and from yaoi manga, most just automatically see the more masculine guy topping and the slender guy bottoming.

Also Kim Dokja is much more popular and loved than Yoo Joonghyuk as a character, most people prefer their favourite character bottoming. It's not even about his personality but people's preferences. There's also a kink of the intelligent one bottoming and being out of sorts, losing himself in pleasure too, which is what a lot of JoongDok end up with. I actually do understand that kink, I had it for Orihara Izaya from Durarara, but I made sure to keep him in character enough. (To the extent people said my writing was like the novel that Izaya acted like Izaya from the novel, and yeah generally people don't do that, I'm an analyst so it's different and I can analyze a writing style and write it but the point is to try. Anyway I've gotten the same feedback from Dokjoong fans too so I'm glad.) And even though Kim Dokja is an intelligent maybe vulnerable character, I just prefer him as Top, because he'd be a really unique top. (Which Top is self-deprecating yet desires? Only Kim Dokja.)

Kim Dokja being OOC in most JoongDok fics reminds me of Orihara Izaya being OOC in most Shizaya fics. Er so Izaya is just an intelligent character like Kim Dokja, he claims to love humans and people, girls like him a lot, he's kind of cool as the villain and mastermind but he's slender and girls love to make him cute. He was the most popular character of the anime. This guy was so popular even people who didn't watch the show knew him from cosplays and memes. And people would ask what anime is he from.

I'll be honest and say I shipped the more popular pairing Shizaya (Izaya the more slender one on the bottom) so I enjoyed those fics at first when I entered the fandom and just wanted more (which I think is how a lot of JoongDok shippers feel), but eventually I grew bored of them because it was always the same thing. Protective Shizuo and cute Izaya (no idea where his intelligence went), and I just wrote my own. I still shipped the more slender one on the bottom but my favourite was actually Shizuo not Izaya lol, but when Izaya was top he didn't treat Shizuo well, so I shipped Izaya the more slender one on the bottom. JoongDok really reminds me of Shizaya, which is actually a fairly popular pairing. People knew the pairing even if they didn't know the anime Durarara. Like how people thought Omniscient Reader was BL because of JoongDok. But for Izaya, he acted as a girl online in canon while for Yoo Joonghyuk and Kim Dokja, it's not Kim Dokja who was a girl, it was Yoo Joonghyuk who was a girl in canon. So why is Yoo Joonghyuk not bottom? ...Pretty confusing for me.

People asked me a lot about Izaya, a lot, to the extent that I had to create an FAQ on my tumblr blog for Izaya analyses. Even though my favourite was Shizuo and people knew that. People asked me on Shizuo too but there were less. I bet if I shipped JoongDok, and did analyses on Kim Dokja, and wrote JoongDok fics, I would get people asking about Kim Dokja, the point is, it's just the character really. It's just the character popularity that leads to content being created in the way they're seen as. When you have such a beloved character that people go back to the novel and try to analyze it or remember certain scenes or just want to see more of him, that character is bound to be bottom. Because bottoms are loved and Kim Dokja is loved. People want Kim Dokja to be loved. Especially with his huge sacrifice, and taking on everything alone. (But I will say Kim Dokja can still be loved as a Top.)

(And I have a standard of Yoo Joonghyuk being loved at least for my own work, he needs to be IC enough.)

Sorry, just reminiscing about shipping a popular pairing. But Dokjoong is worth it.

So I believe it has almost nothing to do with Kim Dokja's and Yoo Joonghyuk's characters at all but because Kim Dokja is a super popular and loved character. Is shorter, has a slender body type like in yaoi, etc.

And, from my experience shipping a similar pairing to JoongDok, Kim Dokja is way too smart. He's highly intelligent, and people have trouble writing his intelligence. Kim Dokja is a mastermind character, and how are you supposed to write a mastermind character accurately with his intelligence? Most people aren't masterminds, haha. Anyway, just saying since the same thing happened with Izaya, he was the mastermind villain, too intelligent, and people couldn't write him accurately (people even thanked me for analyzing him so they could understand him!), so they just made him cute and somewhat cool and too angsty which was OOC, and made his partner Shizuo a brute who was rough, lustful and glaring (reminds me of JoongDok Yoo Joonghyuk.) which Izaya would always give into (even though he taunted Shizuo in canon).

And I think people just want something simple. So a cliche simple dynamic such as cold, rough top and submissive sly bottom draws many people. People in fandoms generally don't look for complicated things, they just want something easy to love, and angst (no matter what fandom or character, angst is always very popular. Angst is a given.).

Lastly, Kim Dokja is a lonely character, repressing his feelings, like Izaya, and it makes people who love him want him to be bottom and loved even more.

Just speaking about my experience with a similar ship lol.

(By the way if anyone is interested, Durarara is an anime about a teenage boy moving to a new city, meeting his friend, and discovering its mysteries, secrets and urban legends and being involved with a huge gang called the Dollars. Izaya is the mastermind villain. He pulls the strings behind the scenes and is incredibly intelligent. It's a great anime with more than 1 season, I recommend it and the light novels.)

When, when you think about it, doesn't it make more sense for the loyal one to bottom since, well he's loyal and will give the one he serves anything he wants. (It'll be hot too)

i think I said a bit much but the person asked why so I thought of...Why.

Also like imagine Yoo Joonghyuk crying, maybe because he's tired or hurt at Kim Dokja's words, Kim Dokja would freak out and wonder what the hell he did wrong, and - and it would be character development and exploring Kim Dokja's self-deprecating character like 'I made Yoo Joonghyuk cry, I deserve to die' 'Why do I care so much?' like vulnerable Yoo Joonghyuk can really activate Kim Dokja's character, Kim Dokja exploring his character, exploring Kim Dokja's character!

You know, there are rare exceptions, I've spoken about this before but ChildeZhongli from Genshin Impact, Zhongli who was so loved even by 'dude bros' (would bang his female form, yes he had one) was unequivocally bottom in the ChildeZhongli relationship, but when I searched them this year, ZhongliChilde was suddenly more than ChildeZhongli in A03! Well..........I think it's because Childe got much more loved as a character, so people wanted to see him as bottom more, since he appears everywhere in Genshin. I'm hoping the same thing will happen with Kim Dokja and Yoo Joonghyuk, as the manga comes out, maybe people will love Yoo Joonghyuk more. I don't know how since people said the webtoon people don't like Yoo Joonghyuk, taking away his scenes but somehow...maybe. (Genshin fans are much more open-minded than other fans in general though..........they ship almost every pairing and whatever kink but.........somehow, perhaps.)

For me, it's DokJoong because it's Kim Dokja who loves Yoo Joonghyuk the most.

This totally suits Dokjoong, Thanks for sharing! If you wanna talk more about Dokjoong or rant about why feel free to message me privately.

Now this may encourage me to make a post on why I don't ship JoongDok...

#thanks for sharing!#ask #yoo joonghyuk #kim dokja #orihara izaya #dokhyuk #dokjoong #joongdok #orv #omniscient reader's viewpoint #top kim dokja #bottom yoo joonghyuk #shizaya #childezhongli #zhonglichilde #childe #zhongli #heiwajima shizuo

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orphiclovers · 18 days

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Hope you don't mind elaborating on the other turns' YJH's relationship with SP and 3rd/1864th turn YJH? I genuinely enjoyed the other posts and wouldn't mind seeing more. ❤️

anon I will NEVER mind elaborating & I thank you for enabling my madness. I love talking about them sm <3

I guess I'll start off with 41&SP since I've been thinking about them and you didn't specify which one I should talk about. and. there's literally 1864 (?) different Yoo Joonghyuks. that's 1,736,316 combinations of pairings I could talk about. I'm never running out of content as long as I'm alive (well I'm not crazy enough to have headcanons for all of their relationships. yet. link to my YJH relationship chart).

this post has PARTS thats how long it got. under read more it goes

41's personality

oh 41, you miserable, miserable man. during the 41st regression, Yoo Joonghyuk had decided to harden his heart into cold, brutal practicality. he would use any means necessary to achieve his purpose, even if he had to sacrifice his companions. (he never called them that during this round, so it would hurt less when they died (didn't work)). he tried very hard to make himself an emotionless machine (see: him carelessly saying he doesn't give a shit, beyond losing tools he could use, when lee hyungsung and lee jihye die).

We get most of this characterization from the Disaster of Floods, 41st Shin Yoosung, who had a deeply messed up relationship with him that's its own post. she was the only one by his side till the very end and had to witness his cruelty, which traumatized her. and then he sent her to the past, abondened her in the labyrinth of the worlds- his ultimate unforgivable act. (quote 'The things done by the 41st round Yoo Joonghyuk were worse than murder.')

but as much as he tried, he couldn't become that heartless monster he showed to the world. (see: him promising Shin Yoosung they would go on a trip together after the scenarios were over. even at his worst, he couldn't help but try to comfort her.)

SP's thoughts on 41

41 and SP spend multiple scenes hanging out one-on-one so we have a lot to go off regarding their relationship. 41 is Secretive Plotter's second-in-command, the one who is closest to him and who spends the most time with him. For SP, this is because he finds 41 the most quote 'similar to himself' (in their ends justify the means, no matter how cruel approach) and thinks he's most likely to understand SP's actions. also since 41 is similar to him, and SP is the peak strongest smartest YJH, 41's opinion is automatically also worth more, right? girlmath (sp is arrogant).

SP relies on 41 as a trusted advisor and subordinate, let's him in on plans and asks for his opinion/advice sometimes, even if he doesn't necessarily take it. gives him commands and resposibilities and expects them to be done competently. even let's him see his vulnerable moments (do we remember the scene where SP woke up from a nightmare and 41 was there. that was to me what lemon candy moment is to doksoo fans).

SP cares for and is fond of and feels mildly possesive/protective over 41, but only the same amount as all the other regressions, nothing special about 41 in particular. SP think's every version of YJH belongs to him (see: n'gai forest's whole existence. see: 'return to me, [999]' see: 'return to me, the place you're supposed to be is here!' talking to 1863. see: 'That guy from the 1863rd should've been a part of me originally. Just like all of you.'). but he takes it for granted when that is true, because we only pine after what we don't have. like 3rd. (and 999.)

41's thoughts on SP

it's clear to me that 41 idolizes SP very much (in a 'he's me if I succeeded' way). when SP calls them similar and 41 says 'what an honor that is' he's not being sarcastic. he sees it as an honor that SP trusts him and thinks it would be better if he only trusted him, and not unreliable people like 999 (quote: [41] spoke with a voice containing a faint trace of rage. "It was a mistake to send him. Send me, instead. [999] is too soft.") and kdj (quote: "It's all because of that fool, Kim Dokja.") (this is partly jealousy. 'SP doesnt need anyone else when he has me' type of vibe.)

he takes his role as advisor very seriously. sees it as his job to point out the things SP doesn't catch or notice, question him, etc. sometimes feels frustrated when SP refuses to see reason (especially regarding 999)

still he is too loyal to ever disobey and the final decisions are always Plotter's. 41 is only subservient to him. ('lowered his head slowly' in acquiescence and submission. 'if thats what you want' im insane)

41 is very protective of SP. sees himself as a loyal knight, the only one capable of protecting his king. (probably literally calls SP 'my king' in his head...) very quick to jump to SP's defence at any point, absolutely hates people who disrespect him or betray him or dare to speak to him... sometimes goes too far and SP has to reprimand him/ make him back off.

this is after kdj provokes SP. see how 41 immedietly jumps to defend him? and how SP calls 41 off with a single word, literally like a guard dog? SP dismisses his concerns regarding 999 in a similar way.

41 also, and I cannot stress this enough, constantly looks at SP with yearning goey eyes. half the scenes hes in he's just...staring. with love. at SP.

41 too, is cringe and in love with someone who doesn't pay him any special attention. this is a yoo joonghyuk's natural state

#orv #omniscient reader's viewpoint #yoo joonghyuk #orv spoilers #secretive plotter #selfcest #spyjh #plothyuk #how do i tag individual regressions?#asks

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page551 · 1 year

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1. the character everyone gets wrong

dont hold back, give me your violence 🔥🔥

starting off quite strong aren't we 😂😂 now i wouldn't say "everyone" that's a pretty massive crowd but so far every character that has fallen under the scope of silent, non-expressive/unemotional/anger issues (maybe some tsun here and there) etc etc is prone to mis-characterization to a certain degree. and since my current obsession is orv, i cannot possibly not mention yoo joonghyuk. you take one look at reddit and you will see people who are incapable of reading between the lines or discerning the subtle hints and even more incapable of not taking everything at face value.

also not sure how much of an unpopular opinion this is but if you are manhwa only you do not get to talk about characterization. period. then again, I don't seek guidance out of someone who films themselves sitting down on a chair, reading orv manhwa out loud, and the moment they see yjh glaring at kdj they call him an asshole. if they add some clickbait-ish title to their video the more unreliable they become.

it goes without saying, however, that there are also people who OVERanalyze him to the point of making him unrecognizable. a bunch of fans with superiority complex love to treat others, shippers specifically, as less literate and only people who are obsessed with putting every character within a trope box.

needless to say, had i read orv a few years ago I would've been more upset with the mis-characterizations that go around but after reading orv now and seeing how singshong wrote yhk to tell us that neither the writer nor the reader will ever have a perfect understanding of the characters. hsy thought that the protagonist is the incarnation of the author, but yjh proved to be a separate entity altogether. kdj was certain he Knew yjh best in the world and yet he couldn't understand him in multiple occasions. even in the new side story about lee hakhyun, there's a quiz like part where someone asks the audience "why did yjh regress 1863 times" and someone answered that's because the first train station opened in the year 1863. lee hakhyun, the "orv author" who was present thought to himself smth along the lines of "???? thats what it was??"

whatever the case, someone might read this and reblog it with smth along the lines of "you're mis-characterizing him too. yada yada did we read the same novel yada yada yada" and thats perfectly normal. except that i am competitive when it comes to my character analysis so i will actually argue with anyone who tells me im wrong (which is also why i rarely engage with meta lmao)

#ask #ratioing dudebros on reddit is fun tho lol

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lee-hakhyun · 1 year

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what do you think of LHH being a writer, reader and a protagonist? ofc not in the grand scheme of the universe way, but he’s got all the three tropes down.

Writer - of ORV, we know that and also his debut work which gives me brain worms to think about. Even before he fully knew why he was in the world, he knew he was a liar. Casually lying about his past to get by. LHH ily.

Reader - he loves ORV like his readers, he loves the story, and *ahem* that insane reveal (I try not to think of it much lest it taint my perception of Hakhyun, he’s my bbg!!!)

Protagonist - he’s the MC of this story!! this story that was made for him, it’s his, yet he wants nothing to do with it. Man just wants to go home with his readers and honestly he’s so real for that. Such a breath of fresh air. He just doesn’t accept his fate like a lot of isekaid-against-their-will protags do. I’ll love him for that and dream of his happy ending, even though I feel like a selfish voyeur just by reading the side story (*insert the world continues by reading yadda yadda bs*) :,))

I’m so insane for him help,,, he’s been plaguing my drafts, someone get him outta there 🧍

he's truly the guy of all time. adding on a lot of my thoughts

i love writer characters,, especially ones that get transmigrated into their own work (hi sqh), and he even gets to he the protagonist..! even if the story is not. treating him well

lies especially are such an important part to his character. the lies he wrote for jhw, the lies about his childhood, his lies to jung jaewoo, and all of his works (bar orv) having themes of lies,,

and. it's really clear he has issues with his identity made infinitely worse by ending up in orv and realizing that he isn't the 'real' author. transmigrating into cheon inho and using incite to copy others, even getting an item that can copy other items.. it makes the moments when he thinks of himself as 'lee hakhyun' so much more special

and oh. he's a character who loves so much. trying to save as many people as possible throughout the stations, even trying to save the monsters in the 'emergency defense' battle by convincing them to stop fighting. even the 'extras' that kdj didn't pay much attention to, he took care of them, gave them food and taught them how to hunt

directly challenging hsy's plan for 41!yjh's sake.. willing to sacrifice himself just so one more person could survive. WRITING HIS OWN DEATH TO PERSUADE HSY.

the 49!kdj pov was heartbreaking. but it was needed. i thought about it, and 49 only started breaking down after his first doubts of himself as 'kim dokja'.. was the reason he started deteriorating so quickly because he no longer believed kim dokja's stories were his? i don't think kdi anticipated this when he split himself,, i think he sincerely wanted his companions to be happy with a part of himself. when everyone was trying to figure out what went wrong with 49's body they said the amount of stories should have lasted him at least decades, and sys saying the stories that connected him to her felt unstable.. was this because 49 was subconsciously rejecting those stories? and then his final wish to be anyone but kim dokja. oh my god.

he got his wish, but the story found him again. while lhh was previously 49, he's now his OWN PERSON and referring to him as 49 is directly against what he wanted. please don't do that. even hsy realized and accepted it (..after lhh made her kill him.)

if i talk about his relationship with jhw i will combust. maybe another time.

#orv #orv side story #orv spoilers #<3 lhh #needed an excuse to get my thoughts out #'cheon inho rehabilitation project' ok where is the 'lee hakhyun therapy project'

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everyyoojoonghyuk · 1 year

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I posted 271 times in 2022

156 posts created (58%)

115 posts reblogged (42%)

Blogs I reblogged the most:

@your--isgayrights

@hsyirl

@feralmoonlight

@its-sixxers

@amayavittori

I tagged 268 of my posts in 2022

Only 1% of my posts had no tags

#orv - 166 posts

#yoo joonghyuk - 155 posts

#yjh - 143 posts

#yoo jonghyuk - 137 posts

#not every yjh - 128 posts

#kim dokja - 41 posts

#joongdok - 16 posts

#orv spoilers - 16 posts

#shin yoosung - 10 posts

#omniscient reader's viewpoint - 6 posts

Longest Tag: 139 characters

#i don't think he really opened his heart up enough to really fall for him until he first realized that yjh was more than a character though

My Top Posts in 2022:

530

159 notes - Posted June 1, 2022

Going through the climax of the arc that made me fall in love with ORV is something special, so of course, I had to write a small meta. Keeping everything vague so that there are no novel spoilers <3

When Dokja revives, everyone (who can stand) immediately flocks to him. They surround him with worried looks and outstretched arms. Even Joonghyuk is holding on still. They're all focused on him, he's obviously the center with how the lighting is, but it means more. He cares about something that they don't.

And that's future Shin Yoosung. None of them have a reason to care about the woman that's been trying to kill them. And Yoo Joonghyuk has no knowledge of the 41st turn yet, so he doesn't either. But Dokja does. He knows her suffering, her story.

See the full post

173 notes - Posted November 16, 2022

ORV EPILOGUE SPOILERS

Argikysacgyjkj Yoo Joonghyuk trying his best to love Kim Dokja after the scenarios even though some of his habits are different and he doesn't quite remember everything he should. He doesn't look at him the same either, the emotions in his eyes aren't as deep, they don't reflect what they've been through till now

He tries reaching for his hand, once. All he's met with is confusion. Kim Dokja doesn't say anything, but he doesn't need too, Yoo Joonghyuk pulls away with guilty disgust

He's sure of it then, that this isn't the true Kim Dokja

And Kim Dokja, knowing what he does and not understanding the odd looks he gets when he does or says something that is supposedly out of the ordinary. It isn't, not to him. It's all he knows

And when he catches Yoo Joonghyuk staring at him with something akin to longing, he... doesn't feel as much as he thinks he should. There's love there, no doubt about that, but the extent it reaches doesn't mirror the love that shines through Yoo Joonghyuk's eyes

And when, one day, Yoo Joonghyuk grabs his hand with that desperate and hopeful look on his face, Kim Dokja can't bring himself to feel more than he does, and finds himself confused by that fact. There's something in him that is screaming that there should be more

Then Yoo Joonghyuk angrily pulls away and refuses to meet his eyes and Kim Dokja has a scary theory that maybe he's not the real one after all

236 notes - Posted May 8, 2022

ORV SPOILERS

Just imagining YJH realizing that the one KDJ loves most is him and he will be the one to deal the final blow

And that's part of the reason YJH is so mad when he finds out that KDJ only saw him as a character the whole time because he knows he loves him, but it just was for an idolized version of him, not who he is as a person

243 notes - Posted May 17, 2022

My #1 post of 2022

468

492 notes - Posted January 1, 2022

Get your Tumblr 2022 Year in Review →

#tumblr2022 #year in review #my 2022 tumblr year in review #your tumblr year in review #This feels like less posts than I thought.... Maybe I'm thinking of 2021 #Anyway looking through the tags of some of these was a joy lol #I love knowing that there are so many who are also not normal about YJH and kdj #not every YJH

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leefi · 3 years

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ORV 16

kim dokja is that your mom. dokja. dokja. dokja is that your mo

HSY: hey should we get red grapes or gr

KDJ: are you sick in the head? are you that mentally enslaved and intellectually subservient? And intellectually molested and IDEOLOGICALLY MOLESTED

Ne dom HSY vs Ni dom KDJ. fight fight fight kiss kiss kiss

at least I'm pretty sure she's Ne dom? but I don't know if ENFP or ENTP (leaning towards ENTP for the sheer audacity). If I'm right in either case she and KDJ should be a natural match in terms of synergy, which is hilarious. That potential double T is terrifying to me though like...relax

I wonder how they're gonna end up reconciling their differences? Like KDJ I'm assuming that HSY wants to see through the ending that she reached in her plagiarized work, which is in direct conflict with KDJ's goal to create a new one entirely.

"Lycaon of the Imyuntar. Pay respects to the protector."

Lycaon's body slowly fell in front of me. First his knees touched the ground, slowly followed by his head. There was a severe shaking of his eyes like he couldn't admit it.

"Do it properly."

kim dokja is so funny because randomly he will do shit like this which makes me go king are you ok. there is some very deeply veiled and fucked up god complex somewhere in there but i unironically love it. do it more

no but actually this is fine because kdj deserves bragging rights now and forever. He's earned them tenfold and I am VERY firmly in the "kdj has done nothing wrong yet - in fact, he's done everything exactly right" camp. hsy it's too early for me to say anything (she tells kdj herself that he's got her motives all twisted) and yjh is a girlboss so he's exempt from moral discussion (I tried twice to write out my thoughts about him and got nowhere. The constellations keep referring to him as ultimately righteous but every action we've seen him take so far has been neutral at best and I think I just need to wait to learn about him more. Like with KDJ i needed to see the moment in Chungmuro with the green zones for me to go "okay, this man is genuinely a good person - more than that, he inspires goodness in the people around him as well". I haven't had that moment with YJH and it definitely won't ever be something like KDJ's - he's not a leader type - but I'm sure it'll come). Interacting with KDJ more will end up changing his tune as it has for the other characters - he's just a tougher nut to crack. And understandably so - don't tell me you wouldn't also fall into a pit of despair if the entire universe was hinged around your endless deaths and rebirths and all actions you took - whether good or bad - were ultimately rendered meaningless. I think that KDJ is really unfair to YJH for this reason especially: like, you read about his suffering for ten years????? Surely you can empathize with him a little bit? I understand that you're both in the same situation now but you have more context than him!!! You aren't stuck in an existential loop of meaningless despair - he believes that he is!! Forever!! (I'm gonna stop here because I'm missing context and making assumptions). But TL;DR Not to be like "oh my poor meow meow 🥺🥺🥺" but...the man has genuinely gone through it LMAO. I also get that KDJ can't just walk up and tell him "hey! Don't worry things will get better 😙✌️✨💖". Because at the end of the day this is ultimately a misunderstanding that needs to be organically resolved with more time and interaction between the two.

TL;DR;DR kdj is mansplaining yjh's own trauma back to him

#3 #me: I don't have much to say on yjh yet #also me: *cracking knuckles over my keyboard* let's go girls #kdj @ me: do you think that yoo jonghyuk effectively utilized girl power when he abandoned past universes to horrors unimaginable?#me: well we don't know FOR SURE if that's what happens!!!#kdj: NEITHER DOES HE!!!!!!!!!!!#me: IS THAT REALLY HIS MORAL RESPONSIBILITY TO WORRY ABOUT WHEN HE'S DAMNED TO SUFFER MORE THAN EVERY OTHER HUMAN BECAUSE HE CAN'T DIE?????#omniscient reader's viewpoint #ayah reads orv #orv16 #i actually do wonder if constellations carry over memories/experiences to the reset universe. or are they reset too?

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page551 · 11 months

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what do you think would be the pros and cons of an orv anime

hmm im kinda of the unpopular opinion crowd here bcs i genuinely think that orv would translate well over the anime medium (if the animation is not bad and they don't screw up the plot and the pacing). as far as im aware, orv rights for an anime adaptation of a few hundred episodes (as well as 5 movies/5 drama seasons) have been sold to realize pictures (dont ask me anything else about this cuz i have no idea who or what they are) and while i Would prefer them being sold to a well-known jpn studio instead, maybe, hopefully, fingers crossed, not all hope is lost

now as for pros, i honestly don't have many to add. if it's successful, ig this means rise in fame, more viewers and readers, more fan content, more money to singshong etc etc!! the usual package that comes with popularity

and as for cons, my biggest issue would be with the way orv gets marketed. i do Not want to see it be sold to people as a companion/rival series to solo leveling and the like. orv is not like solo leveling at all. this is just personal opinion here but sl is fantasy/action and thats about it. it only excells in those fields and fails at everything else. the characters with the exception of sjw are non memorable. it's a series with a dudebro audience in mind and thats exactly what it attracted. orv on the other hand, while also fantasy/action as one of the genres, is much more deeper than that. in fact, i could go so far and say that most of the dudebros that have read it came across orv bcs a sl fan has recommended it to them. and why would they downgrade sl in their eyes is smth for them to find out but anyway. if i one day come across a 2hr long video on yt being some heated debate between two guys over whether yjh can beat kdj in a fight I'll riot actually. ive had enough with naruto thank you very much

another "con" I'd say would be the fan content, resulting directly in a lot of discourse, hence orv fandom being yet another toxic fanbase on the internet. (god knows some guys on reddit already associate jd shippers with mha fandom for some reason lol like sure bestie just say u read the book with your eyes closed and move on jfc)

#ask #orv #orv adaptations

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kimdokja-real · 1 year

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I just saw your post about how you don't understand kdj being bottom and here's just how I see it (eventho im not done with the novel yet)

Imo eventhough kdj is this insanely intelligent and is THE man with a plan, but the other core aspect of kdj is that he's someone who literally doesn't know how to show his love outside of self-sacrificing (because that's the only proof of love he's ever received) and someone who doesn't hold himself very high in regard, and the idea of making him bottom is so that yjh (someone who also arguably is emotionally constipated but atleast has experience showing affection to his sister maybe?) can show him how much he is loved and how you can show love outside of self-sacrificing. The reason why it's awkward (for me) to write/read him as a confident top who knows what he's doing, is that I don't believe he trusts himself to be in control of someone else's pleasure?

But ofc as long as it's portrayed well I think he can be top as well, but like it has to be a version of him who is comfortable with showing and receiving affection, which imo conflicts with one of his core aspect.

But I wouldnt mind to discuss this further with you :> i love having discussions

Hm.

I would argue that kdj doesn't hold himself very high in regard. If he didn't hold himself high in regard, he wouldn't think himself to be good enough to be demanding things from the constellations, gods in the sky, and he definitely wouldn't be picking up kids to take care of, or even people to take care of.

Like, the way this man handles every situation clearly shows he holds himself high in regard. Just giving a small scene here:

Asmodeus licked his lips. Yoo Jonghyuk stared at Asmodeus before closing his eyes.

‘I’m sorry Kim Dokja.’

There was no other way. He was forced to look towards the next regression. He closed his eyes and Yoo Jonghyuk’s clock prepared to go back. The second hand, the minute hand, the hour hand. The moment that the giant hands were going to move in the opposite direction—

「 That’s why you should’ve thought about me earlier. 」

All of a sudden, Yoo Jonghyuk’s clock stopped.

***

[The exclusive skill, ‘Omniscient Reader’s Viewpoint’ stage 3 has been activated!]

Huge sparks appeared around Yoo Jonghyuk and the startled Asmodeus moved back. Something blinked inside Yoo Jonghyuk’s eyes while something else woke up. Of course, it was me.

[You…]

[The constellation ‘Demon King of Salvation’ is looking at the ‘Demon King of Rage and Lust’.]

I stared at Asmodeus with bright eyes. Then I said, [Don’t touch my incarnation, Asmodeus.]

「 That’s why you should’ve thought about me earlier. 」

Of course, it was me.

Then I said, [Don’t touch my incarnation, Asmodeus.]

-I mean this is just an example, but there's no way someone who doesn't hold himself in high regard can say these confident sounding lines. Like 'Of course, it was me'? This just reeks of confidence.

'The reason why it's awkward (for me) to write/read him as a confident top who knows what he's doing, is that I don't believe he trusts himself to be in control of someone else's pleasure?'

I don't really understand this...cause um...the whole novel of Omniscient Reader's Viewpoint is Kim Dokja showing his trust in himself? It's all about Kim Dokja doing whatever he wants, and going towards the ending he wants, even the main character Yoo Joonghyuk cannot stop him. Kim Dokja definitely has a lot of trust in himself and he's confident, doing whatever he wants, Kim Dokja has all these plans, Kim Dokja always knows what he's doing in canon and that's a signature of a Top.

In contrast, Yoo Joonghyuk is more cautious:

“Then can you let me go? And let’s go to Oksu together. There isn’t much time remaining to clear the scenario.”

‘It is difficult.”

However, a protagonist was a protagonist for a reason.

“Everything you said makes perfect sense.”

I have never seen a protagonist as careful as Yoo Jonghyuk.

「 A beginner can’t be so calm. 」

「He is abnormally well-adjusted to this changed world. 」

「He probably killed Kim Namwoon. 」

「 He has gone beyond being useful to being dangerous. 」

Kim Dokja says he's never seen a protagonist as careful as Yoo Joonghyuk and yeah all the way he's assessing and considering Kim Dokja carefully, who's just speaking with confidence. Carefulness and cautiousness seems more bottom behavior than top behavior, typically speaking.

In contrast, Kim Dokja shows confidence through the novel:

A pleasant feeling of fulfilment covered my whole body and made me confident. I was an ordinary person with ordinary skills. But even so, this didn’t mean I could only do ordinary things.

(Of course he's not ordinary at all, Kim Dokja vs how people see him...)

Unfortunately, unlike his wishes, I wasn’t the main character in this world. But I was confident of at least one thing.

“Yes. At the same time, I am also the sole owner of the Book of Revelations.”

A confident laugh emerged. Really? Let’s challenge it once.

'Let's challenge it once' is a very confident statement.

The Fourth Wall. It was an exclusive skill that I had from the beginning. I still didn’t know all the functions of this skill but I was confident of at least one thing.

This skill made me recognize this world as a ‘novel.’

I was able to confidently answer until a while ago. I was the only reader who read all of Ways of Survival.

But I felt that some of my answers were being diluted in the soup. Did I know Yoo Jonghyuk at all?

Kim Dokja just shows confidence through the novel.

Then this part here:

I heard a faint cry from the Great Hall in the sky. The god of this world had noticed Dionysus’ existence. The fact that he delivered a message directly without going through an incarnation meant he had confidence in his backer… As expected, the 12 gods of Olympus were different.

I opened my mouth in a deliberate provocation. “If you are so confident then come and talk to me in person.”

Then the string of words moved.

-I don’t like those with tentacles. It is annoying to fight. If I go down myself, everyone will die.

In fact, I hadn’t expected anything. Seoul would be turned into powder if the 12 gods of Olympus really descended.

Just an example of how he's confident enough to deliberately provoke people, a god of Olympus no less.

Then I was reading this part here -

“The two of them can’t do what Yoo Sangah-ssi can do. Yoo Sangah-ssi is necessary for this plan.”

Yoo Sangah’s expression slightly relaxed as it was emphasized once again. Yoo Sangah was an exceptionally talented person. She just needed confidence.

Kim Dokja says Yoo Sangah just needed confidence, he assesses and determines she just needed confidence, a person who's unconfident in himself and doesn't hold himself in high regard would not be able to say that.

'trusts himself to be in control of someone else's pleasure?' I think he very indeed trusts himself to be in control of someone else's pleasure, er, like throughout the whole novel he picks people up, changes situations scenarios in a daring way, and also raises people with encouraging words. And he just goes for the ending he desires, a good ending for the people he loves, isn't all that 'in control of someone else's pleasure' non-sexually?

I know he has his trauma and dissociation and emotional repression, but as the leader of everyone including Yoo Joonghyuk throughout the entire novel, he's comfortable enough showing people affection. Maybe it would be a bit awkward for him to receive affection though, but he handles the kids easily enough, who both show their affection for him easily. He even names the nebula of him and Yoo Joonghyuk Kim Dokja's Company?? And he ignores Yoo Joonghyuk when he says the nebula needs a different name.

Yoo Jonghyuk was watching me. His eyes asked what I was going to do. I said to him, “…Yoo Jonghyuk. Do you remember the nebula we made? Kim Dokja’s Company.”

It wasn’t simply to save my mother. Everything would end if I belonged to a nebula.

There was no way I could overcome the unfair contract with them and I would never be able to reach the end of the story.

“…You still want to use that name.” Yoo Jonghyuk frowned as he moved close to me and pulled out a sword. “I will choose the name of the nebula.”

I smiled at the thought that Yoo Jonghyuk was joking. The energy of transcendence could be felt by my side. It was strangely relieving despite the presence of a person who had long surpassed my scale.

It might be because I felt like we were standing on the same horizon for the first time since the scenario began.

I declared towards the stars in the night sky. “I won’t bow to your fate.”

I pointed my sword towards those silent gazes.

“I will decide my story.”

Yeah and that's just Kim Dokja showing his confidence again.

And Yoo Joonghyuk lets him, in the end he didn't try to change the name of the nebula. That's more bottom behavior than top.

'and the idea of making him bottom is so that yjh (someone who also arguably is emotionally constipated but atleast has experience showing affection to his sister maybe?) can show him how much he is loved and how you can show love outside of self-sacrificing.'

Yeah, I do get the aspect of the fandom just wanting to show Kim Dokja he's loved, and who better than his protagonist, Yoo Joonghyuk?

But I'm not sure if Yoo Joonghyuk can do that? One of Yoo Joonghyuk's core traits is that he loses people through the regressions. He is kind of traumatized in losing people, so he may be afraid to show affection to people, to Kim Dokja. Yoo Joonghyuk also saw dying as a solution, which is why Kim Dokja calls him sunfish (who easily dies), so Yoo Joonghyuk himself is self-sacrificing, like when he decided to be the Demon King to save Kim Dokja so Kim Dokja can survive, but Kim Dokja took that away from him and sacrificed himself for Yoo Joonghyuk instead. Yoo Joonghyuk self-sacrifices himself through regressing, going to the start again and again until he can get the happy ending with the people he cares about, alive, that he wants. So in my opinion, Yoo Joonghyuk has a bit of a big self-sacrificing problem.

It's kind of funny, Kim Dokja himself is self-sacrificing and he sees no problem with that, but when he sees Yoo Joonghyuk self-sacrificing, he goes crazy and does everything to stop Yoo Joonghyuk. (He loves Yoo Joonghyuk so much.)

-Stop! Stop it you son of a bitch!

At this time, the main scenario was flowing through the holographic panel at the Seoul branch of the bureau. Some dokkaebis sighed as they watched the storm of magic power on the screen.

The dokkaebis instinctively knew it. The scene that would unfold from now on would be the best story since the Seoul Dome scenario began.

Bihyung watched the scene and was one of them.

-Yoo Jonghyuk! This damn ■■■ bastard…! Please!

-Everyone stop him! Block Yoo Jonghyuk!

“Kim Dokja won’t die.” Bihyung continued without understanding why he was making such a boast. “As long as he becomes the demon king, Yoo Jonghyuk won’t kill Kim Dokja.”

I just love this scene lol. Kim Dokja literally goes crazy trying to stop Yoo Joonghyuk's self-sacrificing, luckily he succeeds. And Yoo Joonghyuk became the one to kill him, as the person Kim Dokja loved the most.

So yeah, let's discuss lol. These are just some of my thoughts.

#kim dokja #yoo joonghyuk #kdj x yjh #yjh x kdj #orv #omniscient reader's viewpoint #dokjoong #joongdok #dokhyuk #bottom joonghyuk #top kim dokja #ask

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leefi · 3 years

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I want to talk about YJH for a second, specifically regarding where he's been positioned in the story and how things have been playing out through his POV (Spoilers up to chapter 120).

Most characters have benefitted tremendously from having Kim Dokja around to influence the direction of the story - Jung Heewon (who I believe was originally a nameless character) has blossomed into one of the strongest incarnations so far and Lee Jihye is stated to be far more powerful than she was in the original third regression.

And while virtually everyone benefits from KDJ's presence, we saw YJH's mental state actually rapidly deteriorating after KDJ's arrival, all the way up to the cinema master fight. It was stated several times in the story that "he shouldn't be this cruel at this point, it's only his third regression, he's acting extremely out of the norm"...and while I can't know for sure, I wonder how much of that is due to him having to share the spotlight with KDJ. He has been very quickly relegated from the role of protagonist to deuteragonist, and is no longer the primary dictator of how this world moves.

Then again...he never actually was. His author was before. And even in-universe, most of his actions and decisions have been heavily influenced - if not outright dictated - by the constellations watching his suffering for their own entertainment. It's so...strange. It's such a strange position that he's in. He's the protagonist, he's the most powerful person on the field, but he's had arguably the least amount of agency over his own actions than anyone else in the story. The vast majority of things he is going to end up doing that Kim Dokja knows about simply haven't happened yet. We are where the story begins. Depending on when this reality truly began, YJH as an autonomous person was really only born a month and a half ago, and that's strange. I'm trying to put myself in his shoes, and it's hard, because he knows so little about the current situation; and I know so little about his previous two regressions (*throttles Kim Dokja for no particular reason*). So really all I can do is speculate...

Speaking of, isn't it strange that YJH's sponsor has never even tried communicating with KDJ at all? That we have no idea who his sponsor even *is* (and that KDJ doesn't raise any questions about it)? Of course my working theory is that KDJ *is* his sponsor...I have no idea how we get there, but I have no doubt that he is. Maybe the Fourth Wall skill is sponsor!KDJ's way of protecting human!KDJ.

One last thing about Jonghyuk is something that I wonder if KDJ will be capable of stopping. When we first met him, the first thing Dokja states is that he will be the man to kickstart the tragedy that changes this world. That. Is...future tense. Something very bad concerning YJH will happen that we haven't seen yet. Does it occur at the end of this third regression? Somewhere before? We're actually nearing the end of when his third regression would be normally...IIRC they mentioned earlier that he dies due to Yoosung (not during the fight, but due to her actions in some way). But what is this action he takes that turns the world upside down? Every time Kim Dokja saves somebody that YJH loves...is that him trying to guide him away from that possibility? Shit, KDJ, what are you gonna do if you end up needing to save yourself?

Ultimately I feel I may be denying YJH too much agency in how I'm thinking about him right now but as it stands I honestly can't help it. By his third regression he's already a psychopath, we don't hear his voice that often, he works mostly off screen, and when he is around he's laser-focused on what needs doing. But essentially what I'm trying to say here is just how strange of a position he's in right now. Hearing other characters comment on him now is what reminds me that he's meant to be the main character. "As expected of a protagonist". Who?? What?? How?? What factor makes him the protagonist now? The fact that the universe lives and dies with him? All that makes him is a hostage.

The universe living and dying with him...Kim Dokja?

That's why KDJ's influence has been so monumental. YJH resisted his presence at first - a lot - and the majority of his actions and decisions have been reprehensible thus far. But Dokja's actions were the first to teach him that he didn't need to keep going the way that he was. There is another way out - he just has to find it.

We've been watching "real people" transform into "characters" as the story has progressed beyond where they finished. I think that the opposite is happening for Yoo Jonghyuk. The more that KDJ pulls us away from the original story and he's forced to react and make his own decisions off of such, the more agency the "character" YJH is going to gain as a person.

#ayah reads orv #omniscient reader's viewpoint #orv23 #orv24 #yoo jonghyuk #woof

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leefi · 3 years

Text

ORV Liveblog 23 - Abandoned World (II)

Late...30's?!!!!!! KDJ is 28 this must be a mistranslation

His mother's already been released from prison for a while, then. Who was this person she was meeting?

oh kim dokja.....

oh kim dokja.........

TSP wanted to know about KDJ's mother when he had the memory recall as a ghost species too, but here I think they're reacting specifically to "that novel was all I had". (again, because i think they're the author)

Kdj's mom is the strongest reminder of the past "reality", and therefore interferes with the Fourth Wall the most strongly. Any sort of trauma can resurface it for him, but hers is the worst. Connections with the original reality hurt Kim Dokja...connections with the original reality break his immersion. We see the word "immersed" used a lot and I don't remember the contexts it is used in exactly, BUT an interesting thing to note is that it was used to describe TSP in the meeting with Persephone (though that can just be translation shenanigans so I'm not putting a heavy weight on that piece of info - also, 4W is a skill exclusive to him).

I don't really have anything conclusive to say, but "immersion" as a phenomena is interesting. My mind jumps to VR.

KDJ's views on life-taking are not this puritanical. Even for his mother to defend herself and her child against an abuser...there must be something else he's not telling us.

At this point, it already wasn’t a normal conversation between mother and son. This was why I didn’t want to talk to her. I knew what would happen when we talked. We knew too much about how to hurt each other.

I am going to go lie on the floor

There was an awkward silence before I spoke again. “Do you know the book called the Underground Killer? It was previously on the Kyobo bestsellers list.”

Talk about a book emerged all of a sudden. Yoo Sangah thought the previous topic was closed and replied awkwardly, “I think I’ve heard of it. Wasn’t it an amazing bestseller?”

“It was an essay written by an abused woman in prison after she killed her husband. It was praised by critics at the time. They said that a Korean version of Notes from Underground had come out. Of course, it was completely overrated.”

Yoo Sangah’s face suddenly darkened. She had noticed. I hadn’t changed the topic at all.

“That’s right. My mother wrote it.”

This...explains so much.

having his own life and trauma put up as a spectacle for others to see...no wonder he considered a story that only he could read so precious to him. oh kim dokja......

but does he not consider that maybe putting it down on paper was cathartic for his mother as well? there's the consuming of a story as catharsis, yes, but it isn't just borne out of nowhere. somebody labored to write that all down, and that can be healing within itself as well. though from what little I've seen, his mother doesn't seem to really care, and is a cold enough person that sharing her story was just opportunistic. though that could be a trauma response within itself too. you get trauma and you get trauma and you get trauma

anyway, moving back to the present - to have had spectators cheering him on and showering him with currency for this past month while people are being slaughtered around him? holy shit. i cannot imagine the rage and violation that kdj is feeling right now.

on twitter we call this "trauma dumping".

not gonna get emotional over this. not gonna get emotional over this not gonnaaaaaWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

I am so glad that we have YSA here. Because everyone has good hearts. but they are also so cagey and guarded and and angry and quick to retaliate but ysa is so kind. and she lets herself be vulnerable and it makes me cry T_T (in a good way!) she hasn't lost that vulnerability yet and I truly hope she never does. I'm so happy that kdj has her around!! not for moral reasons - like I said he already has a good heart - but just to establish some kind of sense of normalcy? an affirmation that it's okay to scream and cry and feel sorry for yourself and find it all unfair. tl;dr i need ysa to host a group crying session. please. y'all are gonna start biting other people if you don't get that out. see kdj this is why you're saying insane shit all the time 😒 you're invested in repression and a god complex when you should be investing in collapsing in your friends' arms and letting it all out 🙄🤧

And I'm really glad that YSA has KDJ here!! not just because she may not have been able to live without him, but because she's mmmmfjdueushsh. wjdhhsheehhshsfjshshs YSA...😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔 it helps that she's around someone who always has a plan/solution. everyone's suffering but this is such a shell shock for her and the kids (Jihye included) the most. When she cried by the fire...*makes grabby hands at her* give her to me. give her to me let me give her a hug 😭😭😭😭😭

God!!!! Everyone is so repressed!!!!!!!!!! *Points to KDJ and HSY* ESPECIALLY ESPECIALLY YOU TWO. YJH IS JUST AS BAD BUT I FEEL LIKE HE AT LEAST HAS SOME DEGREE OF SELF AWARENESS ABOUT IT. You two are like 👩🏻‍🦯🧑🏻‍🦯

One more thing I want to talk about. The parallel ways that KDJ compares himself to YJH (the "character") and YSA (the "person") are so interesting to me. "I can't do this, I'm not the protagonist...I'm not a protagonist...I'm not Yoo Jonghyuk". vs. "Yoo Sangah is a real life protagonist. She always knows just what to do. The world seems to turn towards her..." etc. etc. Kim Dokja is constantly telling himself that "I can't do that, I can't be that" when he is already doing that, and more. He's this story's savior.

#orv23 #omniscient reader's viewpoint #ayah reads orv

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