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waitmyturtles · 1 year

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Friends, family! Some updates and questions on the Old GMMTV Challenge -- if anyone catches this post, I would love your input! (AND THANK YOU for all the input on this watch journey so far, I LOVE YOU, FAM!)

1) Love Sick. Oh my gosh, I am TOTALLY enjoying this show. Yes, lots of problems, LOTS of issues, and I get to enjoy the BL cuts, so I’m missing all the messy het context (thank GAWD).

But seriously -- oh my god, oh my god. Noh and Phun are like, a canon Thai BL couple? They’re SO PERFECT FOR THE JOB. It’s so amazing, they’re so amazing. Noh is so insane and WISE. Phun is SO CRAZY IN LUV. I love that Phun just CANNOT HOLD BACK! THOSE EYES! (This guy is my TUL?! TUL?!)

So watching Love Sick now makes me regret, by quite a lot, not watching these shows chronologically. I think it would have helped me a lot to watch Love Sick before SOTUS, but alas, I let my curiosity about Singto get the best of me. More on this in a second.

2) @absolutebl, @clairificusrex, @nieves-de-sugui, and anyone else who wants to chime in! Question for y’all: I found this playlist on YouTube for BL cuts of Love Sick season 2. Do these edits look reliable to you? I unfortunately have to multitask at all times when I’m watching dramas, so I can’t fast-forward -- I think I might need to rely on this playlist to finish out LS2. Gah. I hope these work for the task at hand!

3) Okay, chronology. I would love advice, thoughts, feedback on the following questions! (I’m sorry I’m asking all these questions, btw: I have a huge trip coming up, and may run into rights issues where I’m going, so I want to get a good watch plan solidified before I leave. Because... I’m a list person, oh god.)

Like I said, I think I messed myself up by watching SOTUS before Love Sick. I think it would have really helped me to understand SOTUS even more if I had watching LS first, to catch on some tropes that were clearly borne out of LS.

@absolutebl recommended, as the third drama of the OGMMTVC, 2gether. But, in a separate comment thread, @shortpplfedup also mentioned that Love Sick and Make It Right kind go together (@shortpplfedup, let me know if I’m stating this reliably) as two of the early high school pulp BLs.

I don’t know if Make It Right is as referenced, trope- or script-wise, as an early BL as Love Sick or SOTUS. But it does have Ohm Pawat, who is one of the actors I permanently rabbithole, and I do really appreciate watching Love Sick now to see all the high school tropes being built.

So I’m wondering: for chronology’s sake, would it make sense to watch Make It Right/MIR2 next, after Love Sick, if this is a side-path I want to take to learn about canon regarding high school settings?

Or... is Make It Right not worth it? I know @absolutebl has said before that the heat of MIR may be wiggly for the youth of the actors. I’d love input! If MIR gives by way of education, I may want to dig into it while I’m on the road.

4) And then after that, closing out the OGMMTVC would be 2gether. However!

a) My other side commitment is to understand Aof’s oeuvre. And He’s Coming to Me and Dark Blue Kiss both aired BEFORE 2gether. So I’m kinda wondering if I should watch those first, before 2gether.

b) And then there’s his involvement with the 2gether franchise, which -- I had no idea about until I perused MDL. And I’m totally not quite following what all the sequels mean and maybe, why he got involved in the franchise?

Was 2gether so bad, in a way, that Aof and Fon Kannitha had to come in and, like, rescue the franchise for Still 2gether and 2gether: The Movie?

And, what the heck is this MDL description of the movie? Is it, like... a summary of the two previous series?

(Is all of this messy-mess indicative of why 2gether landed on the OGMMTVC list? Ha.)

I’m a little confused by what the whole deal is with 2gether, and if the sequels are worth watching. For me, the priority would be to watch Aof’s work as it progresses over time, which makes me think I should interrupt the OGMMTVC to watch He’s Coming To Me and Dark Blue Kiss first. Because, again, I’m wondering if he or GMMTV felt that he needed to come in and, like, save the 2gether franchise. When I was digging into all of this in MDL, I was totally surprised to see his name there.

Whew. I know this was a lot, but I appreciate ANY crumbs from the experts. (2gether, on paper, looks like a hot mess, but I know BrightWin are beloved, so...what’s up with that, ha.) If anyone’s reading and commenting this -- thanks, y’all, in advance, for your input!

#turtles catches up with old gmmtv #the old gmmtv challenge #love sick #love sick season 1 #love sick season 2 #noh x phun #phun x noh #make it right #ohm pawat #make it right season 2 #2gether #still 2gether #2gether the movie #brightwin #backaof noppharnach #dark blue kiss #do i prioritize chronology or should i just dive into the hot messes right away #drama accountability!#tell me what to watch!

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whymustyoube · 2 months

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rewatching Lovesick S2 for nostalgia reasons but who was going to tell me the actor for North was in it??? Just popped up in the later half of the show and I’m the Leonardo DiCaprio meme.

Like damn he’s been around, deserves a lead role along with the actors for Kim and Sonic… for no reasons. Also should be in a show in the style of 3 Will Be Free. Need more crime polycules.

#pit babe the series #pit babe bl #love sick #love sick season 2

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tosailuponthesea · 2 years

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Did Jeed just murder a dude?!

#wtf #girl is in a COMPLETELY different show from everyone else #Noh: it's awkward that my ex gf is on the same trip as me and my new bf #Ohm: can't take his own advice and is pushing away the boy he likes #Earn: do I have feelings for my best friend?#Jeed: I'm going to commit MURDER #Love Sick the series #Love Sick season 2 #dramas

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keppuoss · 7 months

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The unicorn⁉️

#ofmd art #izzy hands #izzy ofmd #ofmd izzy #izzy redemption arc??#loving the unicorn motif #it’s so sick #our flag means death #ofmd season 2 #ofmd s2 #ofmd spoilers

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irishamrock · 9 months

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Fell first

Fell harder

#these two I swear #never in a million years would I've dared to hope for all of this #they love each other so fuckin much they make me sick #ineffable bureaucracy #good omens #good omens spoilers #good omens season 2 #gos2 spoilers

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theelastword · 21 days

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i saw a very interesting post recently from @fellthemarvelous about how Aziraphale is often treated the way female love interests are— likely because his hobbies and emotions are more traditionally feminine whereas crowley’s style and anger are more traditionally masculine despite the fact that neither of them are gendered. the thesis of the post was essentially that because crowley is the one who fell, fans have decided that aziraphale only exists to comfort and protect and bring peace to crowley rather than be his own person with his own emotions and ambitions. i’d never been able to put this into words, but it’s like this person stole what i was feeling right from my brain and i am so thankful to their eloquence.

but it did get me thinking about the end of season 2— specifically how many fans, even people who defend aziraphale for what he did, believe that the “only” way for his choices in the finale to be valid are if he did them for crowley’s safety/well-being. i’ve seen so many arguments along the lines of “oh, he has to go back so he can fix Heaven for Crowley and make him heal from falling” or “oh, he has to go back to Heaven because if he doesn’t, Metatron could go after crowley and he needs to keep him safe”. and while both of these very popular aziraphale-defenses are valid (this is not an attack on anyone’s opinion!) and i wouldn’t be surprised if they played into his reasoning for leaving, i can’t help but think of that lovely person’s female-love-interest argument.

i don’t actually think aziraphale leaving for heaven needs to be related to crowley at all. it can, of course— and likely does— but aziraphale has gone through just as much Heaven-induced trauma as crowley has, something that many fans (and even the characters themselves, sometimes) like to forget. aziraphale knows first-hand how abusive Heaven is to young angels and humans who they deem unworthy of being saved. and so to me, it is just as valid if it turns out aziraphale going back to Heaven wasn’t “for” crowley at all, but rather a way to protect these other generations from the abuse of Heaven that aziraphale has witnessed and been victim to. is it so hard or unacceptable to think that aziraphale could make a choice that doesn’t have to do with his love life? he is not obligated—nor is crowley!— to live entirely as though he’s making something up/repaying/protecting his love interest. that kind codependency is not something to idolize. i guess what i’m trying to say here is that there are other reasons to go back to Heaven having nothing to do with keeping crowley safe, and while that is a perfectly valid interpretation, i’m not personally a fan of the widespread belief that it’s the only interpretation that makes what aziraphale did “forgivable”.

EDIT/ADDITION: i ALSO think that this is why i’m so bothered by the argument that while Crowley being “selfish” and choosing his own path at the end of s2 is perfectly valid, aziraphale doing the exact same thing is not. i do not blame either one of them for making a different choice, but in my opinion far too many people believe that crowley had a right to his own autonomy and do what he thought was best for himself, whereas somehow it was Aziraphale’s job to choose the same thing in accordance to what was most healthy for CROWLEY and not for himself/his own ambitions as regards to Heaven. people think that crowley has an obligation to do what is best for crowley, but that aziraphale’s subsequent obligation is to also do what’s best for crowley. no one seems to particularly care what may be best for aziraphale. at the end of the day, if one of them can make a self-prioritizing choice, the other can, too. aziraphale is his own person, not a love interest!!!!

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dearabsolutelynoone · 19 days

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“Love's about finding the one person who makes your heart complete. Who makes you a better person than you ever dreamed you could be…”

Julia Quinn, The Viscount Who Loved Me (Bridgertons, #2)

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fan-of-chaos · 1 year

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bhwebf OH BURNNNNNN

NEJNKJF STOLAS

#Stolas with his sick burns!!!#i love him so much hbcshdbchf #helluva boss #stolas #stolas helluva boss #gin posts helluva boss #helluva boss season 2 episode 4 #helluva boss spoilers

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waitmyturtles · 1 year

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Turtles Catches Up With Old GMMTV: Love Sick/Love Sick 2 Edition

[What’s going on here? After joining Tumblr and discovering Thai BLs through KinnPorsche in 2022, I began watching GMMTV’s new offerings -- and realized that I had a lot of history to catch up on, to appreciate the more recent works that I was delving into. From tropes to BL frameworks, what we’re watching now hails from somewhere, and I’m learning about Thai BL's history through what I’m calling the Old GMMTV Challenge (OGMMTVC). Starting with recommendations from @absolutebl on their post regarding how GMMTV is correcting for its mistakes with its shows today, I’ve made an expansive list to get me through a condensed history of essential/classic/significant Thai BLs produced by GMMTV and many other BL studios. My watchlist, pasted below, lists what I’ve watched and what’s upcoming, along with the reviews I’ve written so far. I’ve covered SOTUS so far, but now I’m correcting for chronology, and present to you today my review of Love Sick.]

Well. I climbed the mountain and saw the view from the top. After 48 episodes -- BL edit cuts, mind you, but still, 48 episodes -- I finished Love Sick and Love Sick 2.

Before I dive into the review, I want to meditate on something that kept cropping up for me as I was watching the show. I always say this in my writing, but I’m an #old cishet gal, in my early middle-aged years, and when I was in high school in the States, casual homophobia likely looked different than it does now, or maybe even at the time of Love Sick’s airing in 2014 and 2015.

I’m not sure if young people in high schools do this now... or maybe they do. Maybe I’m clueless and just not watching enough Western and/or cishet content to know. But when I was a teenager in the ‘90s, “gay” was the adjective for everything. "This bagel is gay.” Your handbag was “gay.” Your handwriting was “gay.” The way in which you stapled your papers together could be called “gay” -- I literally heard that in high school, and I still remember it as being one of the dumbest things I had ever heard. And, of course, most doomingly for certain individuals -- many were labeled as “gay,” too.

As I rejected much of the biases and racism that my Indian family operated by when I was growing up -- so I also rejected the nonsensical usage of the word “gay” as an adjective for anything else but someone’s sexuality.

I was a seriously protected, hugely nerdy Indian kid growing up. But I kind of inherently knew that this unconscious/conscious/implicit/explicit/simmering hate for a group of people vis à vis this adjective wasn’t for me. At that time of my youth, I didn’t actually know queer communities. I just didn’t want to be associated with biased people who insisted on seeming like utter idiots via their language against a minority group.

(I’m aware now that “gay” as an adjective is likely being appropriated back by young queer communities, just like the word “queer” itself. I want to clarify that “gay” was NOT being used in a "nice” sense when I was a kid.)

I’m meditating on this because, of course, I watched Love Sick well out of order of my introduction to Thai BLs. I started with KinnPorsche, with The Eclipse, with Bad Buddy, and then began to correct that by watching SOTUS -- all shows that have dealt with homophobia in various ways...or seemingly not at all, in the case of BBS, and to just a touch of an extent in KP between Big and Porsche.

So. I watched Love Sick to learn about Thai BL history. But my mindset is out of order, right? It’s because I’ve already watched many influential shows that carry the influence of Love Sick within them. (As I did in my SOTUS review, I’ll cite @miscellar‘s tremendous analysis of how Bad Buddy was based on Aof Noppharnach’s meta commentary on existing BL frameworks, and I’ll do a lot of comparisons to BBS in this piece, as I’m aware that P’Aof was influenced himself by Love Sick.)

In rewinding my perspective and my mind to set myself up to watch Love Sick: I wanted to be very aware of how this show would deal with casual homophobia among teenagers, and the ever-present question of how it would deal with the question of if the main coupling of Phun and Noh would fall into the “gay for you” category that I discussed in my SOTUS review, and that @absolutebl discusses in this post.

If @absolutebl flagged Love Sick as likely problematic of mistakes that are being corrected for now -- of course, they’re right. The casual homophobia was rampant. The “gay” question was easily squelched, loudly and early by Noh, who clarified throughout the show that he was not, and never would, be gay. And Phun clarifies that as well, later in season 2. Our boys “called it love.”

Bad Buddy dealt with this differently, very obviously. There was no homophobia. Pat likes all genders. Pran will consider liking girls at some point, to Ink’s joy and advice that it’d be “gainful” for Pran to do so.

But. (And I think P’Aof recognized this.) In history, we have to start somewhere. I had to get comfortable in my jibblies to watch this, and be reminded from whence I came, an environment of casual homophobia that very directly led to my deciding to live my life in part as an ally.

It’s unfortunate that I don’t get to read commentary on the regular about these shows from a Thai queer male perspective. (It’s why reviews from the very dear @bengiyo are so important for me to read, from his queer male perspective.) (And I think I need to watch more Soonvijarn.) I want to know, from a Thai queer male perspective, if it was OKAY for Love Sick to depict the casual homophobia that we saw, and if the perspective accepts Noh and Phun’s trajectory as a couple, calling their relationship not gay, but love. And certainly -- maybe that perspective has changed over the course of the airing of BL in Thailand, as expectations and artistic strategies have changed with the progress of time.

Throughout my liveblogging of my watching the show (and I want to take a second here to give a HUGE SHOUT-OUT to the DARLING MUTUALS who commented on my seriously late-night posts: @clairificusrex, @lurkingshan, @nieves-de-sugui, @aliceisathome, and many more, I LOVE YOU ALL, YOU AMAZING STANS!), I expressed a lot of love for Phun and Noh, and for other characters, too, like Yu, Per, and Win. (Yu and Per have a special place in my heart as allies-in-the-making, and Per trying everything to make Win, his BFF, happy -- and recognizing his limits while doing so.)

But now that I’m done with the show...I feel like a line of intimacy wasn’t crossed. Maybe I shouldn’t blame the show for this. The show WASN’T a BL. The show wasn’t SOLELY focused on Phun and Noh. Maybe the line of intimacy that I’m thinking of COULDN’T be achieved in a high school setting in 2014 Thailand.

I really wondered about the length of the show as I was watching it. For the MAJORITY of the second season, I thought the length HELPED the boys grow into their relationship. We really saw shades of gray. We saw shades of emotion, of development, especially from Noh to Phun. We saw Noh grow TREMENDOUSLY, maturely, figuring out his boundaries with lovely Yu. We saw Noh figure out his boundaries with Phun. I thought all of that development was truly lovely, very important to see between two young men, and gorgeous to watch. Captain acted the hell out of it.

At the same time, I think the length of the second second ultimately hurt the endgoal of the revelation of their relationship to their communities and family. To the end of the show, we were hearing that the boys were not gay. I think this was designed as a necessary part of their coming out in their relationship -- because I’m not sure that the airing of Love Sick 2 could have been considered successful at that time if it did NOT include that element, the element of MAKING SURE that the audience was TOLD that the boys were not gay.

And I think -- because I watched things out of order, I’ve watched brilliant shows already correct for these mistakes -- that deflated me just a touch as I wrapped up the series.

As well, up until the VERY end, we saw that the boys were still in a place to consider heterosexual relationships, as in the case of Phun and his friend, Pam, who Noh confused for being a potential interloper. With Phun *not* communicating and clarifying to Noh immediately that Pam had a boyfriend, it set up a moment of real confusion for Noh, as if their already-committed relationship (which they had committed to multiple times already!) was on the rocks, for an interloper of another gender.

While I was watching it, I was confused -- I was wondering why the show needed THIS to close out Phun and Noh’s storyline.

I wonder if it’s because, in 2014, the show could not have ended WITHOUT that question. The boys would be in a relationship now... but in the future, would things “straighten” out? (Of course, years later, we had ReminderS, which I haven’t peeped, but did establish that the guys were still together, as BL continued to be filmed and as attitudes slowly have changed.)

I think that if Love Sick 2 had ended after the pharmacy camp -- I would have felt settled and happy about this show. Phun and Noh ARE darlings, after all. Captain as Noh, his AMAZING ability to demonstrate a teenage kid’s overwhelmed reaction to the world around him so comedically -- it was really perfect. Both White and Captain are fantastic actors (especially as compared to Krist in SOTUS).

But there was something about the ending that gave me the jibbles. As if the show couldn’t just leave the guys alone in their happiness. There HAD to be one more dramatic storyline that wasn’t clear. There HAD to be the clarification that the boys were not gay -- not to their schoolmates, not to Phun’s dad, not to the audience. No way were they gay. Again, I think this was where the length of the second season ultimately hurt this series.

And Ohm’s internalized homophobia as well. The way in which he rejected James, left James in the dust. The way in which things were left not quite clarified between him and Mick, although their relationship was alluded to at the end. (I might have missed some clarifications in the BL edits, but I ain’t going back to the full-length episodes to find out.)

And Earn and Pete. Good LORD, Earn. An “I fucking love you” next to the urinals? Dude. PETE COULD DO SO MUCH BETTER THAN YOU, EARN. (I frankly wanted to see Pete with Yu. Earn was the Thai version of The Situation from Jersey Shore, getting all up in Noh and Phun’s business and trying to break them up. Fucking Earn. SMDH.)

I have complaints. And I can’t help but think... yes, THIS is what Bad Buddy corrected for. THIS is what The Eclipse corrected for. With Kinn being out and out gay, THIS is what KinnPorsche corrected for.

Phun and Noh found their love, which I am desperately happy for. Captain acted the HELL out of Noh -- I could not help but laugh out loud, night after night, at how Noh wiggled his way in and out of situations. He is, in Asian parental parlance, a good boy.

But, as dear @absolutebl meditated on, there were mistakes in this show that, thank goodness, are being corrected by the filmmakers that I have fallen for now. I see what Bad Buddy was doing. Instead of “I’M NOT GAY” -- P’Aof had Pran be gay, and Pat be bi, and Pran consider girls to Ink. That flow of that conversation among Pat/Pran/Ink/Pa -- that was sophisticated stuff. P’Golf had Akk say to his parents, not that he was in love with Ayan -- but that he likes men.

I have previously loved these nuances in Bad Buddy and The Eclipse. Love Sick now makes me WANT THEM, HUNGRILY, as admissions of truth and acceptance.

Do I need characters to be out and out, like Kinn? NO. That’s a person’s business, that’s a character’s business, if they want to define or call themselves gay. I’m not here to tell anyone where to land on the sexuality expression spectrum, that’s not my place. I’m not here to ASK anyone’s preferences. Just live. Pran certainly wasn’t out and out. He loved Pat -- that’s who he loved, he loved Pat, and there was no other nonsense, no other side explanations, no covering up or jibbly clarifying of any other positions. (And Pat’s statement was so simple, too: “I like both genders.” Boom, done, move on, live and LOVE and be happy.)

What was hard for me was the repeated denial of gay throughout Love Sick and Love Sick 2. I just didn’t think the show needed that -- because the love between Phun and Noh could have spoken volumes WITHOUT those statements. But I also get it. I get that the writers of Love Sick likely thought they NEEDED those statements in order to get the dang show aired in the first place, in 2014 Thailand. I get that there wasn’t that paradigm, yet, as leveraged by people like P’Aof, P’Jojo, and P’Golf, that lets love STAND as the STATEMENT ITSELF, à la Bad Buddy and The Eclipse.

I see what Love Sick did to begin setting up a tremendous, TREMENDOUS paradigm of BLs in Thailand. It was simply groundbreaking. And the ads! The advertisers were also making their statements. These boys were drinking and eating the Oishi like there was no tomorrow. That was big for nascent BL and capitalism accepting nascent BL.

But the show wasn’t perfect, not by a long shot. And @absolutebl Sensei -- you nailed it by listing it as one of your three original recommendations for us understanding what GMMTV is doing, NOW, with their progressive and groundbreaking art. I’m glad I watched Love Sick. I’ll get more Phun and Noh when I catch up with ReminderS -- and I’m glad, for me, that Love Sick is over, and that I know that Phun and Noh end up happily together in drama land, hopefully in a place where their cinematic preferences are NOT in control of the fictional communities around them, and the real audiences watching them.

[For those of you who are following, I’m now going to make a purposeful dive into a few shows that cover a number of priorities. I’m going to watch Make It Right, Make It Right 2, and Love By Chance -- all to learn about the works of the very prolific New Siwaj, as recommended to me by @bengiyo. I’ll also be crossing off groundbreaking shows featuring my simpy darlings, Ohm Pawat and Perth Tanapon, who are currently destroying in Double Savage. Finally, with MIR and MIR2, I’ll learning more about the early high school pulps after having watched Love Sick. Here’s the road front and back. I’ll ALWAYS take input if anyone reading thinks that something’s missing on this list!

AND AS ALWAYS: MANY, MANY THANKS TO THE FAM that always comments on these posts and gives me unbelievable feedback: @bengiyo, @shortpplfedup, @respectthepetty, @lurkingshan, @wen-kexing-apologist, @clairificusrex, @nieves-de-sugui, @manogirl, @miscellar, @dribs-and-drabbles, @solitaryandwandering, and anyone that I may have missed! I so appreciate you all, and I LIVE for the conversations we have about these shows. 1) Love Sick and Love Sick 2 (2014 and 2015) 2) SOTUS (2016) (review here) 3) Make It Right (2016) 4) Make It Right 2 (2017) 5) Love By Chance (2018) 6) Kiss Me Again: PeteKao cuts (2018) 7) He’s Coming To Me (2019) 8) Dark Blue Kiss (2019) 9) TharnType (2019) 10) Theory of Love (2019) 11) Until We Meet Again (2019-2020) 12) 2gether (2020) 13) Still 2gether (2020) 14) ITSAY (2020) 15) I Promised You the Moon (2021) 16) Not Me (2021-2022) 17) My School President (2022-2023)]

#turtles catches up with thai bls #turtles catches up with the essential BLs #turtles catches up with old GMMTV #the old gmmtv challenge #ogmmtvc #love sick #love sick the series #love sick season 1 #love sick season 2 #noh x phun #phun x noh

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