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waitmyturtles · 9 months

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Turtles Catches Up With Old GMMTV: 2gether and Still 2gether Edition

[What’s going on here? After joining Tumblr and discovering Thai BLs through KinnPorsche in 2022, I began watching GMMTV’s new offerings -- and realized that I had a lot of history to catch up on, to appreciate the more recent works that I was delving into. From tropes to BL frameworks, what we’re watching now hails from somewhere, and I’m learning about Thai BL's history through what I’m calling the Old GMMTV Challenge (OGMMTVC). Starting with recommendations from @absolutebl on their post regarding how GMMTV is correcting for its mistakes with its shows today, I’ve made an expansive list to get me through a condensed history of essential/classic/significant Thai BLs produced by GMMTV and many other BL studios. My watchlist, pasted below, lists what I’ve watched and what’s upcoming, along with the reviews I’ve written so far. Today, I tackle the impact of GMMTV’s biggest BL, 2gether, and its companion follow-up, Still 2gether.]

Alright! We have reached a major milestone in the Old GMMTV Challenge. This entire project started off on the backs of two now-seminal posts (for me! and I hope for you, too!). The first one was a dialogue I had with the ever-lovely @miscellar regarding how Bad Buddy had addressed BL tropes and turned those tropes around for a singular drama experience. At the time of my asking @miscellar about this, I hadn’t organized myself to do a chronological exploration of Thai BLs as a genre -- I was picking and choosing what to watch, and I knew that what I had watched in Bad Buddy was formative. I wanted to learn more.

@absolutebl had caught the scent of this discussion, as others were sending them asks of this historical nature as well, and they penned this post that listed out the three dramas that they thought best explained how GMMTV came to its current state of programming -- GMMTV’s apology tour, as we called it back then, with Love Sick, SOTUS, and 2gether listed as the three dramas one needed to watch to understand the state of GMMTV’s BL programming now.

So with that, I dove in, and publicly began building out the OGMMTVC, with major help from @absolutebl, @bengiyo, @shortpplfedup, @lurkingshan, @miscellar, @nieves-de-sugui, @solitaryandwandering, and many, MANY others along the way (@manogirl singlehandedly introduced me to MaxTul, for which I say, FUCK YEAH, FRIEND, THANK YOU!).

And the milestone that we’re celebrating today is that I’ve crossed the 2gether and Still 2gether threshold -- 2gether being the last drama on @absolutebl‘s original list. And, of course! I have thoughts on 2G and S2G.

(Before I dive in, I just want to say that I’m saving some juicy, juicy analysis of the pain/suffering/separation type for a separate meta that I’m hoping to publish later this week, offering a comparative analysis of Still 2gether to Bad Buddy and Until We Meet Again. I don’t want to unwind this here, because I want this post to focus in large part on 2gether’s media influence, but -- stay tuned, I’m headed for more pain meta shortly, tee hee!)

So, yeah, 2gether -- wow, right? Haha.

No, not quite, I’m just sort of joking. I’ve had EXCELLENT dialogue with the fabulous @bengiyo and @so-much-yet-to-learn about there being some shining spots in 2gether, which I agree with them about. (For both 2G and S2G, @bengiyo and @so-much-yet-to-learn shared with me some incredibly moving reflections on what it meant that Bright Vachirawit, in particular, was so emphatic about Sarawat being identified as gay in the show -- and how that spoke to the queer community during 2G’s prime. Thanks to you both for those timely comments.)

I think those of us who watched this 2G installment of the franchise know inherently what its major issues are, including a lack of chemistry emanating from Win Metawin, and an overabundance of pure talent and eagerness from Bright Vachirawit that wasn’t met at his level, à la Krist and Singto in SOTUS.

Besides the 2gether series itself -- which I’ll get back to in a minute -- I just want to note the external landscape of the show’s airing. We now all know that this show premiered in the very early stages of the COVID pandemic emanating out of Asia. 2gether’s popularity has long been attributed to people being at home to watch shows, many of whom likely were watching Thai BLs for the very first time. According to 2gether’s wiki, the show reached 100 million views by April 2020 on LINE TV ALONE (thank you to @lurkingshan for dropping the data!). Both Bright and Win have MASSIVE social media followings now, FAR outnumbering the other stableholders at GMMTV (Tay, Off, Gun, Nanon, etc.). And, 2gether’s continued success in and out of Asia is mostly attributed to the nostalgia that first-time viewers may have about 2gether being their first BL.

I thought this was all interesting to note in a recent Instagram post that Toptap Jirakit, who plays Type in 2gether/Still 2gether, posted. He hit the streets, interviewing Thai fans on their favorite BL series. I think it’s likely convenient for his own career that most of the interviewees listed 2G in their top three lists -- but it made me think.

I know, especially from discussions with @bengiyo and @lurkingshan, that there was a LOT of BL fan dismay about the ending of 2G. To be UTTERLY honest, I TOTALLY MISSED the ending high-five, because I was looking for, like, something BIG at the end, and, lol, the high-five totally went over my head. I guess that’s a good description for my feeling of the entire series, which I’ll dive more into in a bit.

First, I want to offer another, but supporting, theory on 2G’s popularity. Taking into account that Toptap IG video (again, acknowledging the self-promotion within it), as well as Bright and Win’s massive popularity, I want to meditate on the wider fandom of BLs vs. non-BL dramas in Asia. BLs in Japan, for instance, are often relegated to midnight-or-later airing times on television. And much of GMMTV’s content is online-based first. I don’t know, as BL fans, if we’re routinely and globally aware that the fandom for BLs -- which is big, maybe even huge -- is dwarfed by, say, the fandom of a mid-sized K-drama. The BL industries in Thailand and Korea are still relatively young and nascent, while other non-BL drama machines are well-oiled across the continent.

In other words -- yes, because of COVID did 2G find a much bigger audience. But I also want to offer that 2G’s...chastity? chasteness?...may have also HELPED this particular series gain such wider appeal. In other words: Asian audiences of a larger mass, outside of established BL fandoms within and outside of Thailand, may have responded more favorably to 2G BECAUSE of 2G’s lack of sex, a lack of innuendo, a lack of insinuation.

(Remember: in majority cishet society, sex is judged. And queer sex? Forget about it. I’ve established in this OGMMTVC that queer sex is even fodder for creating discriminatory material WITHIN the BL genre itself. Sex AND queer attraction give many people the jibbles. Audiences going to non-BL dramas may be doing so because they want to consume specifically het content. Same-sex romance just might not be their thing. And those non-BL drama genres are GIGANTIC -- from funding to viewership, etc.)

In that Toptap video, many fans list Bad Buddy, A Tale of Thousand Stars, and others as their other favorite BLs. Putting BBS aside for a second -- because there WAS intimacy in BBS, just not an overabundance of it -- we can consider ATOTS as another example of a BL that happens to be quite popular in Thailand, demonstratively, while also being subject to similar criticism by BL fandom as 2G in having a lack of intimacy.

While us in the BL fandom will readily make fun of 2G for not having intimacy at all, I do think, for Asian audiences not accustomed to an abundance of sex and/or same-sex sex in media -- the way that us Western viewers have in our majority media -- that 2G was accessible. It wouldn’t have to make your non-BL fan, new to the genre, uncomfortable -- especially to see same-sex intimacy.

(The wonderful @telomeke made a similar point last week in a conversation about queer acceptance vis à vis Thai politics. I wonder if our devoted BL fandoms lull us to think that an ENTIRE COUNTRY might be accepting of the queer community and queer politics and policies. It’s definitely not a reality in any single nation worldwide. There are always going to be complicated dichotomies of acceptance in every single society that humans exist in.)

When I got to the end of 2G, and saw that there wasn’t going to be any kissin’ or huggin’ -- it made TOTAL sense to me WHY this show was popular OUTSIDE of the already-established BL fandom, particularly in Asia. It ain’t my cup of tea, but it was a show that I could see, like, my Asian cousins watching, as an introduction to queer revelations and engagement. And then, if they stuck with the genre, I could see them going to, say, an ATOTS, before going to a BBS, a show that really addressed the development of queer intimacy between men. Numbers-wise -- yes, COVID explains 2G’s popularity. Content-wise? Content-wise, 2G stays in people’s hearts, partly because I believe it didn’t PUSH those hearts, as a same-sex starting gun to their first exposure to BL.

I could get well into an analysis of how sex, generally, is perceived in Asia, and ALL of the cultural nuances and biases AGAINST sex in Asia (cc @neuroticbookworm, as we have talked about potentially writing meta together on this topic from our shared South Asian lens). But I happen to think that some of our beloved BL filmmakers -- P’Aof Noppharnach, Jojo Tichakorn, New Siwaj, Cheewin Thanamin -- have actually addressed it, and beautifully so, and continue to do so. For instance, the ending quote placards in Dark Blue Kiss touch multiple times on Thailand needing more sex education. Just to offer a personal example -- I’ve had to talk to Asian relatives well into their thirties, as an American, about their first exposure to sex, to explain that sex is not... a bad thing. It’s the cultural and social judgments that accompany sex that colors a person’s worldview on sex.

2G didn’t challenge ANY OF THAT. In fact, in casting Win, they chose a dude who was VERY CLEARLY not INTO that -- to me, à la the casting of Krist Perawat in SOTUS.

No sex? No moral challenges, no ethical quandaries, no uncomfortable moments with a same-sex acting partner. Just two dudes dating, cute cute, holding hands at the Scrubb concert (or whatever).

Of course, for my tastes, as y’all know, I desire something more complicated. And I understand that GMMTV HEARD the feedback that many established BL fans had about that 2G ending. And P’Aof Noppharnach, at the time of 2G’s ending, clearly said something to the effect of, not on my watch, I’m actually going to take this franchise AND FIX IT, MY WAY, which, fuck, COULD I LOVE THIS MAN MORE? No -- but YES, I found a way to love him more.

And we got Still 2gether -- a show rooted in its QUEERNESS. QUEERNESS AND INTIMACY AND INDICATIONS OF SEX. I mean, look!

Not just rainbow shirts! Rainbow shirts on multiple people. And rainbow TABLES. P’Aof was like, WE ARE NOT MISSING A MOMENT HERE, PEOPLE. We’re going to fix this. We’re going to claim BL for the queer community who actually serve at the mercy of the audience that consumes BLs.

Before I dig further into S2G, for which I have reams of notes, as opposed to 2G (obviously) -- some quick positive notes on 2G. Wat’s romantic confession in the shelter bus in the forest was seriously heart-warming. It was romantic as fuck. And we see a NUMBER of tropes that make their way into BBS -- bringing over a beverage to someone who is joined by another potential romantic partner; how everything needs to be a competition or a “deal”; all the singing and writing of songs; make-up remover/micellar water (hi @miscellar, ha!); the keeping of a guitar for someone else. I loved seeing those tropes in 2G. I love when shows talk to each other.

Most of all, 2G established Sarawat as committed to his pursuit. Bright was UNABASHED in his role as Sarawat. It was Win/Tine who could not meet Bright’s level -- seemingly out of, what, disinterest? Repulsion? Maybe even a lack of acting talent? It wasn’t obnoxious, per se. It just seemed like Win didn’t know HOW to respond, or even what to respond TO -- all while Bright/Wat CLEARLY SIMMERED in his role. (Like I said earlier, @bengiyo has shared that Bright was emphatic in interviews that Sarawat was gay, while Win was less forward about Tine and who Tine was.)

And I think S2G absolutely grabbed Bright’s talent and spotlighted it. I am deeply glad that the ending of S2G had a such a STRONG sexual insinuation, à la AePete’s SIMMERING attraction in Love By Chance, and even in moments throughout the show as well, and I loved how S2G leveraged Bright’s fabulous acting as Sarawat IN those insinuations. Because -- contrary to how my Asian parents raised me, and how many Asians are TAUGHT to THINK about sex, which is to say, to try to ignore it or laugh at it -- PEOPLE HAVE SEX. And sex, and QUEER SEX, are things to be celebrated. Sex is beautiful, and BELONGS in stories of romance and love. To have had it essentially...deleted?...from 2G removed a huge sense of reality from that piece of drama art.

S2G also focused on a thing that many in the BL fandom actually pooh-pooh: it focused on a committed, ongoing relationship. My favorite BL in the world, Kinou Nani Tabeta?/What Did You Eat Yesterday? is focused on two middle-aged guys in the middle of their years-long relationship. I’m a married mom. I want to see the struggle. I love first love in BLs, don’t get me wrong -- my Cherry Magics, my BBSs, my Old Fashion Cupcakes. But I also don’t mind the struggles. Give me a Minato’s Laundromat, season 2, any day.

I think P’Aof was offering a subversion to Thai BL expectations by showing Tine and Wat in their settled relationship, a year in, where even Sarawat admits -- the sweetness of the relationship has worn off. The guys are working together, living together, working on their relationship together, eating instant noodles together, instead of the green curry and simmered pork and eggs that Tine lovingly made for Sarawat in their early days.

I feel like I’ve said this before, but let me say it again: I CANNOT EMPHASIZE HOW IMPORTANT IT IS FOR MEDIA TO SHOW QUEER COUPLES IN LONG-TERM RELATIONSHIPS. Queer partners are FAMILY, TOO. I had ongoing FABULOUS conversation with @chickenstrangers (THANK YOU, FRIEND!) during my 2G and S2G conversations, and dear @chickenstrangers pointed out to me the nature of a conversation that Sarawat and Earn (FILM FILM FILM!) had, in which Earn complemented Sarawat on his courage in being in a same-sex relationship. And Wat corrects her. (Sorry for the massively bad screenshots, it’s bumbling mom hour around here):

Like I said earlier: 2G gave potentially sex-and-queer-love-averse audiences a BL they could chew on. Win Metawin gave them enough by way of the portrayal to allow audiences to feel like they could be at arm’s-length while observing a same-sex relationship.

S2G, and Sarawat himself, strike to the HEART of queer existence and queer love. Sarawat corrects Earn: I do not love Tine because I’m courageous. I love Tine because I love Tine, because I am a human who loves another human. It’s nothing special. It’s just love that myself and my partner have, that other couples have.

I think what P’Aof did, by way of observing what was going down in 2G -- what was being NORMALIZED in 2G -- was to pull a switch and turn the tracks around, and say, I have got to normalize ANOTHER PATH for these fans that are paying extremely close attention to Bright and Win right now. And he did it, with rainbow tablecloths and shirts; with Tine’s homies, Fong and Ohm, holding Tine down; with Sarawat’s homies, Man and Boss, exploring their OWN loves simultaneously with Sarawat and holding Sarawat down with love and support.

Oh, and, of course. What P’Aof did with Green. Green was arguably a worst-case scenario of a gay character being misused for comedy in any of the dramas I’ve seen on the OGMMTVC in 2G. I honestly do NOT know what GMMTV was thinking when they allowed that characterization to air.

And Green just becomes... SASSY, and EQUAL, and really fun and slightly conniving towards Dim in S2G, and it was FABULOUS to watch (OMG. Guy and Guy’s chemistry and comedy? HILARIOUS. P’Aof ABSOLUTELY knew what he was doing there!).

Watching S2G was another fabulous P’Aof moment. It was like putting on warm pajamas and snuggling in for the smart ride of a drama. Every bad drama should consider having P’Aof come in to save the day (except for The Promise and Step By Step -- let’s never utter those titles ever again, ever).

But, I do need to give 2G credit. 2G opened the door for something: it served as a misstep for GMMTV to learn from. I don’t want to be SO summarizing like that -- again, because very important experts in @bengiyo and @so-much-yet-to-learn, who analyze shows from a very important queer lens, have spoken on the bright spots of 2G. 2G allowed for S2G to exist, for Sarawat to exist as an openly-in-love man with a boyfriend who he doted on. 2G allowed for fans of 2G to then walk the road in S2G, to be exposed to P’Aof’s CRITICAL and EMPATHIC eye in developing queer content, and to be exposed to a Sarawat that was much more able to LOVE and to receive love.

I’ll giggle and laugh at the foibles of 2G. But I saw how Bright, and even Win, improved in S2G. I saw how a director in P’Aof, and his screenwriting team in Pratchaya, Bee, and Au, took a thing that wasn’t representing the queer community healthily enough, and turned it into yet another gorgeous representation, not just of queer love -- but of GLOBAL LOVE, a kind of love, between Tine and Sarawat, that all of us humans who WANT to love another person, can strive for. I will always appreciate 2G and S2G for that journey.

[Alright, we keep truckin’! If you’ve been following my blog in the late-night space, well -- you know where I’m at, psychologically, at the moment. I was ALL KINDS OF MESSSEDDDDD UPPPPPPPPPP over I Told Sunset About You. GEEEEEEEEEEZZZZZ. I am really going to enjoy my ITSAY write-up, and will definitely serve up some comparative analysis between ITSAY and other shows, as per a request from the legendary @lurkingshan, I gotchu, gurl. I see some really important moments from the OGMMTVC journey in ITSAY and cannot wait to get my pen on them.

And speaking of wild and crazy mindsets, I have started YYY -- more on THAT in the liveblogs -- and then after YYY, a return to dear MaxTul. We’ll definitely honor the end of Tul Pakorn’s career as I watch Manner of Death for the first time. Tul’s been a real homey in the space for a while, and I can’t wait to celebrate him.

Here’s the status of the watchlist -- as always, I’ll take any feedback ya got!

1) Love Sick and Love Sick 2 (2014 and 2015) (review here) 2) Make It Right (2016) (review here) 3) SOTUS (2016-2017) (review here) 4) Make It Right 2 (2017) (review here) 5) Together With Me (2017) (review here) 6) SOTUS S/Our Skyy x SOTUS (2017-2018) (review here) 7) Love By Chance (2018) (review here) 8) Kiss Me Again: PeteKao cuts (2018) (no review) 9) He’s Coming To Me (2019) (review here) 10) Dark Blue Kiss (2019) and Our Skyy x Kiss Me Again (2018) (review here) 11) TharnType (2019-2020) (review here) 12) Senior Secret Love: Puppy Honey (BL cuts) (2016 and 2017) (I’m watching this out of order just to get familiar with OffGun before Theory of Love -- will likely not review) 13) Theory of Love (2019) (review here) 14) 3 Will Be Free (2019) (not a BL or an official part of the OGMMTVC watchlist, but an important harbinger of things to come in 2019 and beyond re: Jojo Tichakorn pushing queer content in non-BLs) (review here) 15) Dew the Movie (2019) (review here) 16) Until We Meet Again (2019-2020) (review here) 17) 2gether (2020) and Still 2gether (2020) 18) I Told Sunset About You (2020) (review coming) 19) YYY (2020, out of chronological order) (watching) 20) Manner of Death (2020-2021) (not a true BL, but a MaxTul queer/gay romance set within a genre-based show that likely influenced Not Me and KinnPorsche) 21) A Tale of Thousand Stars (2021) (review here) 22) A Tale of Thousand Stars (2021) OGMMTVC Fastest Rewatch Known To Humankind For The Sake Of Rewatching Our Skyy 2 x BBS x ATOTS 23) Lovely Writer (2021) 24) Last Twilight in Phuket (2021) (the mini-special before IPYTM) 25) I Promised You the Moon (2021) 26) Not Me (2021-2022) 27) Bad Buddy (2021-2022) (thesis here) 28) Bad Buddy (2021-2022) and Our Skyy 2 x BBS x ATOTS (2023) OGMMTVC Rewatch 29) Secret Crush On You (2022) [watching for Cheewin’s trajectory of studying queer joy from Make It Right (high school), to SCOY (college), to Bed Friend (working adults)] 30) KinnPorsche (2022) (tag here) 31) KinnPorsche (2022) OGMMTVC Fastest Rewatch Known To Humankind For The Sake of Re-Analyzing the KP Cultural Zeitgeist 32) The Eclipse (2022) (tag here) 33) GAP (2022-2023) (Thailand’s first GL) 34) My School President (2022-2023) and Our Skyy 2 x My School President (2023) 35) Moonlight Chicken (2023) (tag here) 36) Bed Friend (2023) (tag here) (Cheewin’s latest show, depicting a queer joy journey among working adults)]

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waitmyturtles · 1 year

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Friends, family! Some updates and questions on the Old GMMTV Challenge -- if anyone catches this post, I would love your input! (AND THANK YOU for all the input on this watch journey so far, I LOVE YOU, FAM!)

1) Love Sick. Oh my gosh, I am TOTALLY enjoying this show. Yes, lots of problems, LOTS of issues, and I get to enjoy the BL cuts, so I’m missing all the messy het context (thank GAWD).

But seriously -- oh my god, oh my god. Noh and Phun are like, a canon Thai BL couple? They’re SO PERFECT FOR THE JOB. It’s so amazing, they’re so amazing. Noh is so insane and WISE. Phun is SO CRAZY IN LUV. I love that Phun just CANNOT HOLD BACK! THOSE EYES! (This guy is my TUL?! TUL?!)

So watching Love Sick now makes me regret, by quite a lot, not watching these shows chronologically. I think it would have helped me a lot to watch Love Sick before SOTUS, but alas, I let my curiosity about Singto get the best of me. More on this in a second.

2) @absolutebl, @clairificusrex, @nieves-de-sugui, and anyone else who wants to chime in! Question for y’all: I found this playlist on YouTube for BL cuts of Love Sick season 2. Do these edits look reliable to you? I unfortunately have to multitask at all times when I’m watching dramas, so I can’t fast-forward -- I think I might need to rely on this playlist to finish out LS2. Gah. I hope these work for the task at hand!

3) Okay, chronology. I would love advice, thoughts, feedback on the following questions! (I’m sorry I’m asking all these questions, btw: I have a huge trip coming up, and may run into rights issues where I’m going, so I want to get a good watch plan solidified before I leave. Because... I’m a list person, oh god.)

Like I said, I think I messed myself up by watching SOTUS before Love Sick. I think it would have really helped me to understand SOTUS even more if I had watching LS first, to catch on some tropes that were clearly borne out of LS.

@absolutebl recommended, as the third drama of the OGMMTVC, 2gether. But, in a separate comment thread, @shortpplfedup also mentioned that Love Sick and Make It Right kind go together (@shortpplfedup, let me know if I’m stating this reliably) as two of the early high school pulp BLs.

I don’t know if Make It Right is as referenced, trope- or script-wise, as an early BL as Love Sick or SOTUS. But it does have Ohm Pawat, who is one of the actors I permanently rabbithole, and I do really appreciate watching Love Sick now to see all the high school tropes being built.

So I’m wondering: for chronology’s sake, would it make sense to watch Make It Right/MIR2 next, after Love Sick, if this is a side-path I want to take to learn about canon regarding high school settings?

Or... is Make It Right not worth it? I know @absolutebl has said before that the heat of MIR may be wiggly for the youth of the actors. I’d love input! If MIR gives by way of education, I may want to dig into it while I’m on the road.

4) And then after that, closing out the OGMMTVC would be 2gether. However!

a) My other side commitment is to understand Aof’s oeuvre. And He’s Coming to Me and Dark Blue Kiss both aired BEFORE 2gether. So I’m kinda wondering if I should watch those first, before 2gether.

b) And then there’s his involvement with the 2gether franchise, which -- I had no idea about until I perused MDL. And I’m totally not quite following what all the sequels mean and maybe, why he got involved in the franchise?

Was 2gether so bad, in a way, that Aof and Fon Kannitha had to come in and, like, rescue the franchise for Still 2gether and 2gether: The Movie?

And, what the heck is this MDL description of the movie? Is it, like... a summary of the two previous series?

(Is all of this messy-mess indicative of why 2gether landed on the OGMMTVC list? Ha.)

I’m a little confused by what the whole deal is with 2gether, and if the sequels are worth watching. For me, the priority would be to watch Aof’s work as it progresses over time, which makes me think I should interrupt the OGMMTVC to watch He’s Coming To Me and Dark Blue Kiss first. Because, again, I’m wondering if he or GMMTV felt that he needed to come in and, like, save the 2gether franchise. When I was digging into all of this in MDL, I was totally surprised to see his name there.

Whew. I know this was a lot, but I appreciate ANY crumbs from the experts. (2gether, on paper, looks like a hot mess, but I know BrightWin are beloved, so...what’s up with that, ha.) If anyone’s reading and commenting this -- thanks, y’all, in advance, for your input!

#turtles catches up with old gmmtv #the old gmmtv challenge #love sick #love sick season 1 #love sick season 2 #noh x phun #phun x noh #make it right #ohm pawat #make it right season 2 #2gether #still 2gether #2gether the movie #brightwin #backaof noppharnach #dark blue kiss #do i prioritize chronology or should i just dive into the hot messes right away #drama accountability!#tell me what to watch!

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