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and-stir-the-stars · 10 months

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thinking about. saffron henry. does he realize how badly he fucked up? what would the boys' reactions be if he reappeared? does jem know about him? also, is he like. healing his own trauma from charlie n everything or is he just. melting

also. unrelated. does mike ever feel like he should be less fucked up because evan's trauma is just so extreme that he compares it? does evan ever feel like others shouldn't be so traumatized bc of his frame of reference?

(Answered the first half of this ask here)

These are awesome awesome questions about the extent of and response to the trauma Ev and Mike went thru, thank you for asking!

does mike ever feel like he should be less fucked up because evan's trauma is just so extreme that he compares it?

Yes. Mike has a lot of guilt over the fact that HE was able to escape and form a life of his own when Evan so clearly wasn't.

This is probably a problem Mike had even before finding out what happened to Evan, actually. Mike has spent some time listening to other runaways stories, hearing how bad other people had it, and he would have compared himself to their stories and found the abuse he faced 'lacking' because Mike is just. Deep down, he's just a kid who wants to be loved, and he wants to be loved by his father, so even though he knows he's been abused by William, a part of him still can't help but think "maybe it wasn't actually that bad" "maybe i just did stupid stuff to make him angry and if i just stopped, things would get better" "maybe I'm just weak and shouldn't be hurt by the stuff he did".

And this tendency to like. Downplay everything he went through affects his reaction to what Evan went through. Not in that he downplays what Ev went through (he doesn't), but it makes Mike downplay his own trauma.

There's a lot of nights when Mike roams listlessly through the house, hating himself for not being able to sleep. Because what problems does he REALLY have?? Yeah William hurt him sometimes and shitty things happened to him after he ran away, but some voice in his head snaps that at least he got out! Usually when Mike can't sleep, he goes on drives in his VW bus to calm his nerves, but in this case, he refuses to let himself do that as punishment for "being so freaked out over nothing". He probably does this refusing-to-let-himself-be-comforted and pushing-himself-past-his-limits thing because he thinks what he went through "wasn't that bad" a lot. It's something he has to work on in therapy.

It also doesn't help that Mike feels obligated to be Put Together for Evan’s sake; it def makes Mike's downplaying/hiding/refusing to acknowledge what he went through thing worse. But that's the good thing about Evan's arc where he realizes Mike is his own person who went through a lot of trauma of his own; it makes Mike acknowledge some of the shit he went through and actually WORK through it, too. It is it's own kind of validation and relief for someone close to you to look at what you went through and admit "it's shitty that that happened to you, and I wish it hadn't."

does evan ever feel like others shouldn't be so traumatized bc of his frame of reference?

mmmm, kinda?

Evan's sense of empathy is complicated, especially when he's put in Mike’s custody; he's still mad at Mike for everything that happened between them. He still thinks of Mike as this big, scary, untouchable monster. Of course an invincible monster like that couldn't ever be hurt by anything.

Then, Mike keeps trying to treat Ev with kindness and sympathy instead of being cruel and monstrous. At this point, the times when Ev sees Mike flinch away from touch or flinching from Ev yelling at him or from the smell of cigarette smoke on Ev's clothes, or the times when Mike gets sent into a panic attack, are all met with confusion and a level of self-satisfaction. He doesn't know why these things are having such an impact on Michael, but it's satisfying to see that the monster that hurt him so bad can be made hurt and vulnerable after all-- especially since Evan takes this as proof that William chose Evan over Mike as his successor because he believed Evan was Stronger. Evan starts to understand that Mike can be hurt, but does not empathize with Mike over this understanding just yet.

But I don't think Evan would have the thought "why should Mike be traumatized over xyz thing when I had to deal with abc" because Evan hasn't been thinking about what William did to him as something traumatic. That doesn't come until later. He thought what William was doing was normal & good. The time Evan has spent in psychiatric facilities has taught him that the murder/using violence to make yourself feel better thing isn't normal, but Evan hasn't gotten over the barrier of thinking that it made him Stronger-- that it was a good thing even if it wasn't Normal.

It's not until Ev realizes that William was using him, didn't care, and wasn't trying to help Ev that that particular barrier finally comes crashing down for Evan.

It's not long after that that Evan has his "oh, Mike is a real person with his own trauma" revelation.

During the time between Ev realizing that William was so horrifically abusive and having his realization about Mike’s trauma, I think it's possible that Ev would lash out in ways that come across as "why should you be traumatized by xyz thing", because Ev has so much pain and confusion around the idea that Mike just left him there with William. YOU got out and I didn't, I was the one stuck there because YOU left me there, so what exactly do you have to freak out over? You chose the new life you ran away for.

But I think this fades once Ev has his Realization about Mike’s past. Because the Realization makes him understand that Mike didn't choose any of this, either.

so, this brings me to how your question applies to Evan when he's actually had a chance to start healing.

Evan’s definitely had his sense of empathy stunted and repressed as a result of his trauma, so it's hard for him to understand what other people are thinking or feeling. But I don't think this translates to him thinking other people SHOULDN'T be traumatized (as much sense as that as a trauma response would make for someone who has been thru what Evan has) so much as Evan not understanding that someone IS traumatized by something, and later, WHY they would be traumatized by it.

But Evan is a naturally empathetic person, and a naturally curious kid. So i think his response to finally understanding that the reason someone is acting weird is because they're upset by something, it would manifest as curiosity since his empathy has been so fried. He doesn't understand other people's trauma, but I think he'd be curious to understand the why's and how's of other people’s trauma. Why are you upset. What about this specific scenario is sparking this reaction. What specifically does it make you feel. Why aren't you acting like you normally do. How do i stop this from happening again.

His attempts to Understand come across as... maybe not clinical, exactly, but definitely as insensitive.

Like, when Evan learns that Jeremy is still fucked up about their (singular) little sister dying when they were younger, Evan’s brain is like. MY sister went missing (he knows how Liz died but repressed it) and my brother used her disappearance as an excuse to torture me. In Evan’s mind, what he went through is Worse than what Jeremy went through, but he's not being judgemental as is implied in the question "why should you be traumatized", he's just genuinely Trying To Understand "why was that so upsetting for you when it could have been worse?" Once he finally realizes that someone is upset about something, he struggles to understand WHY, and he accidentally comes across as insensitive.

I don't think it's emotional so much as physical pain that would elicit that kind of "why should you be upset when xyz traumatic thing could have happened instead?" response. Evan has been trained to be less responsive to physical pain by this point, as in is less responsive to being in pain himself and seeing others in pain. If he were to see someone get visibly upset from stubbing a toe or scraping a knee or getting cut/scratched, he'd just look on in utter confusion. Evan has seen people--kids-- be physically ripped apart. William and younger Mike both did things to him that could low key be classified as torture. I think the part of his brain repsonsible for registering physical pain is always gonna be a little fucked up.

#I wish i could talk more about Evan's empathy in the time after the arrest but before being put in Mike's custody #During the time when he would have been in psych facilities #But i don't really know what that would be like.#If he was allowed to be around other (non psychologist) people and he heard about other people's trauma during that time?#He'd probably just be desensitized to it?#He'd listen to it w the same emotional reaction you'd have to listening to someone make boring small talk about the weather #If he cares at all it's only to throw other people's trauma in the psychologists' faces #''You can't tell me xyz thing isnt normal when this other patient went through it too. You don't know what ur talking about.''#saffron pawn au #evan afton #evan afton support center #michael afton #tw child abuse #tw body horror

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