DBH Android Race Analysis/Is Gavin Reed Racist?

An analysis done based on a post I’ve seen calling Gavin Reed a racist.

THIS IS PURELY A DISCUSSION. I AM OPEN TO OTHER INTERPRETATIONS AND COMMENTS. IF YOU’D LIKE TO DISCUSS OR EDUCATE ME IN A TOPIC PERTAINING TO THIS THAT WILL FURTHER MY KNOWLEDGE ON SOMETHING LIKE THIS, PUT IT IN MY ASKBOX OR COMMENTS.

TW: This analysis will include the discussion of whether Androids are considered a race within the DBH World, when they may have not been considered a race, and other racial topics such as if Gavin Reed is racist. I did minimal research on the topic and I am speaking based on the experience of being a minority in America and of my opinions.

Again I want to start with the fact this is an open discussion. I don’t mean to offend, attack, or defend anyone with this post for/with bad intentions because at the end of the day this is a discussion on whether a fictional scenario can lead to the creation of a new race and whether a character is racist to this fictional species. I am always open to comments on this post for more opinions, and I want this to be a welcoming and open discussion.

I recently saw a post on Tumblr about how Gavin Reed is canonically racist against androids and I wanted to share my thoughts on the topic because the subject certainly interesting and very complex. In order to debate on whether someone can be racist against androids, we first have to answer the question of whether androids are a race, and more importantly what makes androids a race in the first place.

The Google definitions of race are considered to be: a major grouping of human kind, a group of people sharing the same culture/history/language/ethnic group, a group of set people or things with a common feature or features, etc etc. By Google definition, I’d like to say that androids in DBH could be considered a race. I’m saying could in the sense that androids at some point weren’t sentient, and we as people don’t often refer what we think are non-living things (things that do not have the ability to carry on life processes such as movement, respiration, growth, reproduction, and response to stimuli.) as a race.

Personally, I don’t believe androids could have been considered a race until deviancy became a common feature amongst androids because of the fact that deviancy gave androids the ability to properly respond to stimuli and grow/evolve their consciousness. Any time before deviancy, androids may not have been considered a race due to the restraints their programming had on their consciousness, restricting their ability to respond to stimuli and grow from it (ex. a robot who hasn’t deviated wouldn’t have the same interest in bugs as an robot who had deviated would because it’s programming doesn’t allow it to grow it’s love for bugs and respond to bugs as a stimuli in order to process their opinions on bugs).

Now apply that thought process on someone like Gavin Reed, who was born in 2002 and most likely was there to watch the development of androids and their integration into society. The first case of deviancy didn’t happen until 2032, when Gavin was 30. It was possible Gavin wasn’t even aware of that case and even more possible that he was still under the impression androids were machinery or another piece of technology. If he was aware of the first case of deviancy, it may have been likely that anyone who knew was told it was bug in the system. Relatably, how many of you thought the mouse moving by itself on a computer or a phone shutting itself off was just a bug or glitch. Now as much as I can find from the wiki, Gavin dislikes androids. The reason I found for this was because of the fact androids have been replacing people in the working scene. Despite having a prejudice against androids he’s also shown to have a respect for them to a certain extent, shown by Connor during the archive room scene if Connor takes the “calm” or “low profile” route. I also believe during that scene Gavin is still under the impression that deviancy is a bug in the code and not a spark of consciousness, which leads to his recklessness with androids.

All in all, I believe Gavin isn’t hardcore racist but more so ignorant as well as a careless one and has a long way to go in terms of his beef with androids. If we were given as much time with him as we were with Hank, I wonder if Gavin would have learned to move past his prejudice like Hank has. (With the mention of Hank, I’d also like to throw in the question of whether Hank was formerly racist to androids at the beginning of DBH)

If you have your own thoughts, be welcome to share! This is all pure speculation and mostly just to get the wheels turning because I am curious to see what you guys think and this game has a multitude of topics that relate to our real world which makes it extra special to discuss.

youve heard of "people get a lot angrier at North for being a woman whos angry than if it were a white man", now get ready for the spin off, "people feel a lot more comfortable being incredibly monotone and irate about Amanda than in the occasion she were a white man, to the point i think there is a 0% chance had this been the case Connor wouldn't be shipped with his emotional abuse AI"

i will never EVER understand the dbh fandom’s favoritism of gavin reed. he’s literally the most fucking boring character in the game. there are so many characters with lost potential, including the protagonists, but no, you really prefer to make this racist piece of shit likable. i hate you guys.

I definitely used to be one of those "Gavin Reed actually isn't as bad of a character as everyone thinks" people so I know the mindset and how easily fanon confuses you, but yes, actually, he is. He is JUST as bad as everyone thinks. PLEASE Do not let fanon alter your perspective of canon Gavin; fanon Gavin is fun, redeemable, and has a personality. Canon Gavin is a racist piece of shit who hates androids and Hank for no reason and is so one dimensional you can practically see the cardboard he was cut from. CANON Gavin is just as bad as everyone thinks he is. FANON Gavin is whatever you want him to be. Thanks.

I find it weird how Todd is a child abuser, Zlatko experiments on androids and turns them into monstrosities, Perkins betrays and kills Markus but yet Gavin is considered the worst person because he *checks list* doesn't consider androids alive (like almost everyone else in the game at that point) and doesn't trust Connor.

Among those you mention, Gav is by far the most justified. Yet I wanna clear some things up here bc I'm not a hypocrite.

1.) Todd -- who doesn't think androids are alive -- is an android child abuser.

"You don't want anything, you're just a goddamn piece of plastic." - Todd Williams

It's still phcked up that he's abusing/can kill something that resembles a kid to the T, but it's important to make that distinction. We see no proof of him abusing a human child (...even though it can be theorized bc his wife took their kid and left.)

Abusing an android kid is just as bad as abusing a human kid -- we know this -- but Todd doesn't see it that way, so that describes/partly justifies his reasoning. There's no such thing as 'abusing' a machine and that's how Todd sees it.

A lot of ppl are also (wrongly) infantilizing Con, so I'm not surprised that they consider Gav's bad treatment of Con worse than Todd's bad treatment of Alice who is a literal kid. Seems like most of them don't even care about Alice/kids in the 1st place (...and that says everything you need to know about these POS'.)

Mistreating a kid (Alice) is way more abhorrent than mistreating a grown-ass adult (Con.) Alice is also passive while Con often instigates conflict. So Todd is way worse than Gav by that alone.

2.) Zlatko -- who is aware androids are alive -- thinks he's doing them a favor.

"Believe me, you’re better off being erased and feeling nothing… No more pain… No more hopes dashed… I almost envy you." - Zlatko Andronikov

He's the worst among those four, but this is again a scenario where you need to see the situation from his perspective. Yet he knows they're alive/capable of emotions and that makes him a million times worse than Gav.

3.) Perkins -- who is aware androids are alive -- is doing his job.

"That android… [North] You seem to really care about her… You don't want her to die, do you?" - Richard Perkins

...and if the lover status isn't there

"You could have what you've always dreamed of." - Richard Perkins

In Perkins' eyes, it's about national security. Androids have killed humans (Partners/Stormy Night/Broken -- even if Markus didn't actually kill Leo or Carl, that's what the public thinks -- Zlatko/Spare Parts/etc. too many chapters to mention,) destroyed public property (Capitol Park,) hijacked media (The Stratford Tower,) demonstrated illegally (Freedom March,) etc. Not to mention that androids are superior to humans in every way and nothing tells Perkins that they won't eventually get violent if taking the peaceful route.

Yet his knowing androids feel makes him (as Zlatko) a million times worse than Gav.

"'Could always try roughing it up a little. After all, it’s not human…" - Gavin Reed

Meaning Gav doesn't think they're alive (unlike Zlatko and Perkins.)

Gav isn't the only character I (partly) defend on shit like this. I just defend the others 'less' bc 1.) they're worse, and 2.) they don't get nearly as much undeserved vitriol as Gav does. Something that's legitimately insane bc, again, they're way worse by a longshot and I'll explain why down below.

Con stans (fandom majority) are thinking emotionally instead of logically

ppl hate/envy Gav bc he's a conventionally attractive white man (you don't see a lot of Todd, Perkins, Zlatko, Leo, and Allen fans even if there are a minuscule few bc they're not conventionally attractive)

Funny that we don't see a lot of hate for Amanda. An AI or not, she's the worst influence in Con's life with her emotional manipulation. Something way worse than physical abuse. I wonder why... (not really bc *cough* you apparently can't say anything bad about a black woman without being racist/misogynistic *cough*) Ofc there are some ppl that aren't afraid to speak up against her, but it's nothing compared to the shit Gav gets.

It's also why I'm not talking about North often bc the majority are (rightfully) defending her already. My voice isn't needed there. Every single person -- other than me, in my experience -- who defends Gav is being spinelessly backhanded about it.

Defending someone doesn't mean you agree with them or condone their actions. It's simply proof that one has the empathy/critical thinking skills to understand their point of view. Something lacking nowadays.

Idk how tf majority of the fandom likes Gavin Reed this damn much when he's canonically a robo-racist and an asshole in general.

Like every moment he's on screen he is being robo-racist, saying robo-slurs, being a dick, or abusing connor. How tf are ya'll praising a character like this.

The fandom compares him to Hank so damn much, but he's quite literally nothing like him.

Hank's a grieving man who's blaming androids because one happened to be there when his son died, and the racist world around him fuled that hatred he had.

Gavin doesn't even have a hint of that, and I'd rather the fandom double-down on the fact he's a racist asshole than try to make him sympathetic by rehashing Hanks reasons. Ya'll could still redeem a character like canon Gavin, but it's way harder, so ya don't want to.

But what's really the icing in the cake is the fact people love Gavin, and HATE North.

North has such a great reason for why she hates humans, and it's because she was a SEX SLAVE, but ya'll like to ignore that.

You guys act like she was forcing Markus to go violent when she was just expressing her opinions.

When it comes to the game, it really fumbled the bag with Norths character, as I feel she is underdeveloped. However, since Gavin is a racist pos with 2 seconds in game and people love him, I hardly believe it's because she's underwritten.

I would much rather Leo take Gavins place in the fandom, since he's similar to him (racist, white man, barley any screentime) but is actually sympathetic and is implied he got better. Like that moment when he's visiting his dad's grave and he sees Markus but doesn't say anything to him, or call for authorities? Yeah, Gavin would've tried to kill him on sight with no remorse.

All in all, any other dbh character > gavin reed.

The Evolution of Emotion

read it on the AO3 at https://archiveofourown.org/works/53158387 by blue_whalen Connor sacrifices himself to save the girl. He falls with Daniel. … Only, he doesn't die. Connor survives the fall. Kind of… Broken and alone in the snow he waits for a savior. A new fear settles in through the haze of pain. Will he die? Headlights light up his world. Words: 13725, Chapters: 1/1, Language: English Fandoms: Detroit: Become Human (Video Game) Rating: Mature Warnings: Graphic Depictions Of Violence Categories: M/M Characters: Hank Anderson, Connor (Detroit: Become Human), Sumo (Detroit: Become Human), Gavin Reed, Markus (Detroit: Become Human), Simon (Detroit: Become Human) Relationships: Hank Anderson/Connor Additional Tags: Connor can feel pain and pleasure, connor’s dick is retractable, Said dick does not make an appearence, Angst and Hurt/Comfort, all fluff and pain no smut, ance Angst and comfort all fluff and pain no smut Hank is a little racist at first, He gets better fast, Connor (Detroit: Become Human) Has PTSD, Connor has nightmares, Sumo is a main character read it on the AO3 at https://archiveofourown.org/works/53158387

Fritz 4 DADS and MOMS who prefer anal .

A queer examination if you will.

[adult swim]

is tattooed to my arm, so I know what I'm talking about.

I'm a career boy

I'm a Daddy who loikes Dorian Electra unironically

A future father of the universe

a recovering addict or a zen master, pick your poison.

professional. Smooth Operator. A man or a lady of the night.

Lou Reed and Motor Head. A marxist Libertarian who finds Gavin Mciness and Steven Crowder to be racist assholes who need to get on Contrapoints, a de-radicalizing party n*zi! JKJK, more like Kermit the Frog, or even better LIL B.

wait wait wait so

yall telling me to my face that MACHINE CONNOR / RK 900 are more popular than markus??? jfc connor is the blandest character in the whole game if he stays a machine, imo he only gets interesting when he deviates.

kara’s story is good. connor’s story is cute with the buddy cop dynamic (especially if he goes deviant and earns hank’s friendship). but now i hear the one character that is the most fleshed out and has the most important storyline in the game (markus), gets more hate than EVIL CONNOR??!! yall are we living in separate realities? he LITERALLY STARTS A REVOLUTION TO FREE HIS PEOPLE.

what the fuck is going on in here on this day

Nines: I’d kill for you.

Gavin:

Nines:

Nines: ask me to kill for you

Hot Take: It’s hard to excuse or even reason with Gavin Reed’s behavior and the fact so much of the fandom is fine with excusing or making their own versions of the character rather than just accept the fact he’s a racist who literally goes out of his way to abuse Connor. His bio is literally describing him as a scumbag who only cares about himself and the fact that so many people like this shitty ass man who is racist towards androids says so much about this fandom. The game’s core theme is racism as well as injustice, I hate the excuse that Hank managed to change so why can’t Gavin? Gavin shows no dislike to the way he is, he shows no signs of wanting to change I could’ve believed he wasn’t an asshole to his core if for example he has moments of hesitation when he fights Connor or something. But if Connor comes across his path, he always tries to fight with him or humiliate him, always telling him he’s a machine and no it’s not because he worked his ass of to get to where he is, he’s stepped over a few people’s toes and is cutthroat in work. I don’t care if you like him as he is but to completely try to make up excuses as for why he is the way he is, for humiliating Connor, for beating him up when he wasn’t a threat to him and shooting Connor if you fail enough quick-time events. In a way you guys see the androids just how Gavin sees them because I can bet everything that if Connor was a poc and Gavin had said racial slurs to him no one would fucking stan his ass. But because Connor was born with a mechanical body, the racism and the humiliation he’s felt is supposed to not be as bad as racism based on appearance when the racism that Connor and so many androids face is just like regular racism. But so many people excuse it so they can fetishize Gavin and MLM, I hate this man so much and the fact so many of ya’ll excuse his racism that he doesn’t try to change at all and him just being a total asshole is so disappointing. Not to mention people try to also excuse Tina’s behavior or like Tina more than Gavin saying she’s a lesbian and whatnot, yeah you can like her but you can’t ignore the fact that she was complicit in his racism towards androids. She let it happen and didn’t try to stop him or anything, so tbh Tina isn’t that great. Some people can change but that’s the entire problem, people always want to redeem a character who has done a lot of bad most of the time they go about it the wrong way, the ignore those the person hurt, or believe one shitty apology will fix things. The fact that Gavin’s birthday gets celebrated and that the fucker is getting shit like merch and films made on him is so damn sad. Markus deserves it. Connor deserves it. Kara does. So many other people deserve it but Gavin? Fuck no. Fuck off. Stop ignoring the androids in favor of these human characters or better yet please try to pay attention to the androids and poc in the game which are ignored in favor of guys like Gavin. Gavin is a huge piece of shit who appears to have no intentions of changing, no intentions of trying to better himself, and only cares about himself and you guys act like this man would be supportive of LGBTQ people or not having racist tendencies towards poc. He is a shitty person and stop trying to excuse this 30-something year old man who has no excuse, hold Gavin Reed accountable for his fucking racism and stop fetishizing him and putting him with those he was racist to. A racist has to want to change on his own, see the fucking close-mindedness he had, they have to want to change for themselves and not because of love. Gavin Reed is a racist. Please accept that and please stop making excuses for this shitty rat man.

no yeah, it's still surreal to me. when i first saw fancontent of DBH, i genuinely thought g/avin reed was going to be a more relevant character. i played the game, i thought "oh that must be the gavin guy everyone likes". i was there, expecting him to be an entertaining character...

...

but he was an asshole.

and not the kind of asshole you can understand (like hank) or the funny type of asshole. gavin was literally just there to be a dick to connor. he even fucking kills connor if you let him. and not only that, but gavin also jokes about hank's alcoholism TWICE. so really, the guy is not AT ALL likeable. there's not one scene that depicts him as a more complex character. because he isn't.

and in this case, it's not because david cage is a hack. it's because that's gavin role. he's a minor antagonist in connor's story, a metaphor of the racist cop, and a foil to hank, who's also anti-android, but still treats connor with some decency, and he slowly sympathizes with the deviants they encounter.

gavin is not any different from todd, zlatko and perkins, the three of which are universally disliked. but i guess gavin is... "conventionally attractive" since he's skinny and the youngest, while the first two are fat older men and perkins is... perkins, i guess lmao.

boy i wish hank punched gavin too...

honestly at this point i have no fucking regrets whatsoever blocking every g*vin simp/r*ed900 blog in existence

Hi there! Just passing by to ramble about how much I love your take on Gavin since he's also my favorite non-playable character in the game.

(Connor is my fave playable character ((predictable, ig?)) and I know [read it somewhere in your post, at least] you're not very fond of him, and that's okay.)

I know Gavin may not be everyone's favorite, but I just love how you see him differently regardless of what people say. I'm always relieved to read all your posts about him because it makes me feel like I'm crazy for even liking him while others are very against him.

I think some people are just conditioned to hate him instantaneously for being antagonistic towards Connor and Hank. And I think he has a good reason for it too. He's not a saint and I guess it's fine to like a character who's a bit cocky and with a lot of flaws.

But you had to admit that despite how seemingly shallow he is in the game, he does show a bit of his character upon extensive scrutiny and that's the beauty of what you're doing. I'll be reading (quietly) more of your opinions about this lovable jerk and I'll be loving every bit of it. ❤️❤️❤️

Hi :)

I'm glad to hear that. The toxicity/vitriol towards Gav has always made me concerned for humanity. It proves that so many ppl are incapable of thinking logically instead of emotionally. Where are their empathy? Likes/dislikes are subjective, but to say he's "nothing but a bad guy" and/or "has no redeemable qualities" are such brain-dead takes.

Despite his unpleasant attitude, Gav has every right to be canonically concerned about androids, and he has every right to believe they're not alive. It's logical. The guy doesn't have the insider knowledge that we, as players, do. Gav's not a psychic.

I love the gameplay of Con -- the detective aspect -- as well as his journey... but his awkward + overtly positive + doormat personality type annoys the shit out of me, lol. I'm Team Gavin Reed™ in disliking Con. Kudos to you for having enough intelligence to put aside your love for him and recognize that Gav has a point.

These are the reasons I've seen ppl hate Gav for:

some are too blinded by their love for Con and/or Hank (as you say)

some are narcissistic enough to feel entitled to their personal favorite characters having more fandom content (...and thus they take it out on fandom favorites)

some feel envious that Gav has the charisma to get away with being a dick (...and they aren't capable of doing the same bc they don't have charisma)

some try to take some BS moral high ground (...and fail)

some see parts of themselves in Gav and thus desperately try to convince others that, "I'm not like him!" (...and funnily enough, every Gav hater I've interacted with has proven themselves to be worse ppl than he is -- so yeah, they're not like him, they're worse)

some ppl are envious that Gav is better/more beloved than them and/or their favorite characters

some ppl hate white ppl (racists)

some ppl hate men (sexists/misandrists)

some ppl ignore the lead writer's statement that "the game is about androids and not race" so they can make it a modern-day political issue, and get brownie points saying stuff like "androids are real-life POCs meaning anyone who dislikes them is racist," bc they can't separate fiction from reality (...and thus they have the brain-dead take that Gav is "racist." I don't like AI such as ChatGPT taking jobs. Does that make me a racist, too?)

some ppl claim to hate Gav just bc it's popular (pack mentality)

some ppl just wanna create drama

some ppl are so starved for attention that they claim to hate him "just bc"

some ppl lack empathy (...and thus they don't understand what losing a job you love is like -- especially to someone who was just programmed to be better than you -- when you worked your ass off for decades getting said job)

some ppl didn't pay attention (...and thus they don't know that Gav had every right to step in both in The Interrogation and Last Chance, Connor bc Con was literally breaking the law)

some ppl see the world as black and white meaning they only think in extremes (...and are incapable of seeing the greys/finding balance)

some ppl are specifically looking to get triggered and thus bring up completely unrelated topics like "misogyny" bc god forbid you like Gav and not North even when they're completely different ppl (...and it's hypocritical that they protect North for hating humans, while at the same time, cursing Gav out for hating androids -- I don't go around with the false claim that, "you're sexist/misandrist for liking North and not Gav" bc I'm not an idiot)

That hatred is all based on emotions instead of rational thought.

"He's a dick!" So is Hank, North, and Con can be. "They have good reasons for it!" So has Gav. These ppl are in no position to decide who's 'the most' affected/traumatized, etc. bc we all react differently. Some are more distraught by their pet dying than a parent. That doesn't make their pain any less real.

Disliking him is fine, but don't give BS moral reasons for doing so. Sometimes we just don't vibe with a person/character and that's perfectly fine. Not vibing with someone, however, isn't hatred. It's apathy. Ppl who are just "meh" about him and don't spout BS excuses are valid.

The only good Gavin Reed content is Kamski's Secret Brother content. I am not accepting concrit at this time.

when people ship gavin and connor