Am I the only one that disagrees with peoples perception of Oz being that he's a religious paranoid zealot out to destroy and demonize Salem??
Because,, I really never got that kind of vibe from Oz. Oz is a lot of things- bitter, cynical- but what he is NOT is a religious fanatic who follows the GoL without question.
At first, yes he was willing to follow the GoL's orders with little argument.
But did everyone just,, forget,, that he flat-out originally said NO to the God of Light with no hesitation just because he thought Salem wasn't alive?? Like. He straight up said that he basically DOES NOT CARE about the world (and by extension, the gods) if she's not in it.
And when he found out Salem was alive? He completely ignored the GoLs actual warning, the only thing he SHOULD have listened to. He only accepted the GoLs order because Salem was there. That's it.
That... doesn't tell me he's a zealot blindly following the God of Light.
And about trying to follow through with his task, yes it's bc the GoL told him to. But he's not a fanatic.
The only reason he originally wanted to destroy Salem (which was probably a last resort to him, lbr) was because she was actively working AGAINST him. She hurt him DEEPLY by incidentally killing their kids and him (which, yes, she killed their kids, she attacked first for no reason without trying to talk to him), so naturally he's going to see her in a not-so-good light.
As for Oz being paranoid, it's reasonable he would be. He doesn't know which Grimm is hers, which Grimm was deliberately sent, what events are because of her, etc. There's NO WAY to tell at all. He HAS to be vigilant, because if he isn't, people DIE.
And he isn't demonizing her for no reason. This entire time, Salem has been vying for the destruction of Remnant. Whatever her reason is doesn't matter, that's what she wants. If she really wanted to just bring the Gods back to defeat them, she could've easily communicated this to Oz and worked WITH him instead of against him. Not only that, but she destroyed 3 Academies and is responsible for hundreds if not thousands of deaths, everyone from the guilty to innocent, from elders to children. And it's HEAVILY implied that she started the Great War ("no one knows who shot first" <- in stories that implies the third party, the antagonist, caused it, and Oz was still fighting her then), which resulted in possibly MILLIONS of deaths.
There's also nothing to even imply that she grieved for her daughters' deaths. It's explicitly stated that OZ grieved and drowned his sorrows with alcohol, when Jinn easily could've mentioned if both of them grieved. Oz was, and likely still is, deeply traumatized by his and Salems first fight.
The reason Oz sees her as a manipulative monster is because that's what she currently IS. She tortured Cinder after she disobeyed Salem and manipulated her right after, told Tyrian she was extremely disappointed in him knowing it would hurt him deeply, used Hazels sister to manipulate and keep him on her side EVEN WHILE fighting him- there's probably a million more examples that I can't think of right now. She deliberately uses the broken and hurt of society for her own gain and keeps them broken.
Because of this, in her songs Sacrifice and Divide, she projects HARSHLY onto Oz. Everything she says Oz does is what SHE does- she lies, manipulates, gets people's hopes up only to crush them. She sees humanity 2.0 as nothing more than pawns to use, that she and Oz are the only players. So she thinks that Oz MUST be the same, right? They're both immortal, the only 'true' people, why wouldn't he??
So Salem doesn't TRULY understand Oz in my opinion.
But I really think that Oz DOES understand Salem, at least better than Salem 'understands' him.
Oz... is definitely disillusioned in the Gods. He refers to his immortality as a curse despite the GoL delivering it as a blessing. He's pretty much given up on not just destroying Salem, but also on his task (he straight up said he has no plan when Ruby asked him). He's bitter and no doubt angry. If he was so zealous in his love for the Gods, why would he refer to a blessing as a curse? Why would he give up on his task? Why would he refer to them as essentially people who get into petty fights? To an actual zealot, that would be extreme blasphemy and heresy.
I really do think Oz understands Salems dislike for the Gods. Maybe not at first, not entirely, but now he definitely does. The only thing is that he's not willing to crush people under his boot like Salem does just to get that point across.
I definitely don't think they could ever work together, but mostly because of Salem. Salem views herself as completely separate and better than humanity and hates everything Oz is responsible for. Oz was likely willing to compromise with her, but he didn't like how she did things (like being a tyrannical dictator). And now that Salems done so much damage to him and everyone else, I highly doubt Oz would ever be willing to work with her, same thing with Salem.
To be clear, I don't think Salem was always evil or manipulative nor that Oz is perfect. Salem was, at one point, just a grieving woman who loved her husband enough to go against the Gods because of it. But I think time and constant fighting jaded and twisted her. Oz too- he's had to do things he's not proud of, made mistakes that blew up in his face, hurt people without meaning to. But time also changed him, and he's learning because of Oscar as well as teams RWBY and JNPR.
Ultimately, I don't think Oz is the zealot people think he is. He's not evil, and Salem isn't good or remotely sympathetic anymore. Salem doesn't understand Oz as much as she likes to think she does, but Oz understands her and not only does he hate it, but it scares him.
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Honestly I'm so sad people don't utilize the clear biblical references in rwby more often
Like,, it's all right there!! Especially in the Lost Fable, it's SO clear it's based on the whole Adam and Eve/Lilith thing. Like you can't convince me Salem isn't based on Lilith in some way
Like,, Light is clearly Lucifer; he's a serpent whose domain involves a tree, and he's specifically the most common depiction of Lucifer- the evil manipulative trickster who invited people to sin (regardless of if it was on accident or not). He manipulated Ozma into accepting his task, he treated Salem horribly and essentially made her snap. He gave them the metaphorical apple and made them sin- which made them immortal
Oz is both Adam and Lucifer, he was tricked into eating the apple and now freely offers it (knowledge and choice), but he's the media depiction of Lucifer specifically. He's the one who gets unfairly blamed, he guides humanity, he gives them choices and knowledge. He can be compared to depictions of Lucifer such as the Lucifer from the show Lucifer, or Lucifer from Hazbin Hotel (take a shot every time I say Lucifer). He's a trickster, but not necessarily in a bad way. He punishes those who hurt others, and while he's not all perfect and good (he freely admits this), he has good intentions that get misconstrued more often than not. He's not just a fallen angel, he's THE fallen angel, and he's definitely strayed from Lights path.
I don't know nearly as much about Lilith, but I do strongly believe Salem could be inspired by her and Eve.
I'm not quite as sure about Darkness, but I do think he represents Satan.
Really, the biblical references in rwby are SO good. It's fun and interesting and it's a serious shame people don't talk about it
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ok so here's a bloodborne post. every dream or nightmare in bloodborne needs two things:
1. a host/dreamer
2. a being to create the dream
in the nightmare frontier/nightmare of mensis the dreamer is micolash and the creator is mergo.
we know for sure the nameless moon presence made the hunter's dream, and the obvious conclusion is gehrman is the dreamer. my personal pet theory is the doll is a second dreamer, the real host of the dream, because you find her sleeping in the old abandoned workshop
when you end a dream you have to kill both the host of the dream and the creator, ex, killing micolash then mergo, killing (freeing) gehrman and then the moon presence
so here where i get a little confusing okkkkk. the doll is the reason the game loops. the purpose of the hunter's dream is to keep hunters alive, at least when they start out hunting. hunters can leave the dream, like eileen and djura, but can they really? they reset when you start new game plus. everything resets. you are able to end the nightmare of beasts by ending the mensis ritual, but micolash was already long dead and a skeleton when he 'woke up', meaning gehrman would be as well. the doll, however, would just go back to sleep. she has an immortal doll body, if she wakes up there is no actual consequence. in the childhoods beginning ending you become the new creator of the dream, and the doll is the host, so gehrman is unnecessary. in the ending where you replace gehrman you are replacing his role as the surrogate child of the moon presence/collateral, and the doll is the host. in yharnam sunrise you 'leave' the dream, but you can't actually leave. the only thing left is new game plus. there is no way to permanently kill the doll in the game, and you need to kill both the dreamer and the maker of the dream to end it
i believe the moon presence created something unintendedly bigger than herself with the dream, it's become an endless self powering cycle that resets the entire world instead of just keeping a few hunters alive. the great ones are sympathetic in spirit, but she didn't really understand what laurence (and associates) was asking for because she can never actually die. so now no one can ever die! N that's my post
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