hey not to sadpost on wedding day but cas’ confession kind of sounds like wedding vows do you think he wr[GUNSHOTS]

so in one of your asks you said you dont think cas was in love with dean since the beginning and idk its interesting to me because everyone seem to think he was from the start so what is your take on that? idk im just curious haha

ohhh I wanted to make a post about this so thanks for asking!

disclaimer: I don’t want to rain on anyone’s parade I just have a different take on this whole thing!!! 

So. I see people are like: OMG he was in love ALL THIS TIME SINCE 4x01 and I am like: no. 

Was he lost since he laid his hand on Dean in hell? Yes. Was he instantly in love? Nah.

See, Cas in season 4 and 5 is starting to feel. He is conflicted, he is questioning, he doesn’t have ‘people skills’, he is confused by what he feels, he knows there is a ‘profound bond’ between him and Dean and he is rebelling for Dean, because Dean has a point and Cas feels Dean is right and apocalypse and destruction are wrong, and this human is so human and he never had that connection before. Add the sexual innuendos, the eye fucking and the tension between those two and this is what i call ‘classic destiel’. I do have a strong feeling this is partly Jensen’s and Misha’s fault though haha but I am also convinced that the jokes like ‘Cas, get out of my ass!’/’Blow me Cas’ are purely for ‘comedic purposes’ because haha gay so funny (keep in mind it’s still 2008/2009 and things were so different then BUT we still got Endverse which had not only sexual stuff implied but romantic as well - ‘all we have left, Dean and I, is each other, if Dean says it’s time to go in a blaze of glory, so be it’ (I am writing this from memory so these might not have been exact lines but you know what I am talking about).

And then in season 6 and 7 is where things start to get romantic. ‘I watched you rake leaves’, Dean’s blind faith that no, Cas can’t be working with Crowley behind their backs because come on it’s Cas and the whole 6x20 episode is *chief’s kiss* and then season 7 and Cas dies to make things right and Dean keeps his trenchcoat and moves it from every car they have been using that season to always have it with him because part of me always believed you’d come back. OK, but I was meant to be talking mostly about Cas’ point of view. Which takes me back to 7x23 and I’d rather have you, cursed or not. I think these words had a major impact on Cas. Something just clicked. Because he realized that he could say these exact same words to Dean and they still would be true. 

And then we got season 8 which was a major shift and it really moved stuff from ‘sexual tension’ to ‘romantic tension’ and it’s still called ‘season fanfiction’ because I wanted to keep them away from you in purgatory and Cas generally not feeling worthy of anything but I think this is when he started to realize that what he feels is not like ‘brotherly friendship’ but something much deeper but he had his issues (I don’t deserve to be saved from purgatory thing) so he kind of kept it buried. But this was when the Real Love really started. But did he admit it to himself? Well I am not in Cas’ head but something must have been on his mind - Naomi had access too his mind and she immediately recognized that there is a certain Feeling that is dangerous and Cas needs to be fucking lobotomized (I still have shivers thinking about it). Did Naomi knew it was love? Idk, but she felt something was going on - that is why she tried to mess things up between Dean and Cas (I only wish he felt the same way ouch my heart....) and Metatron also recognized it, quicker and better (maybe because he spent much more time on earth and was generally a little more powerful and knowing as the scribe of God) and he immediately used Cas’ grace to banish angels from heaven because Cas was feeling love for a human. But did he, himself recognized it as love? Did he admit it to himself? I still have a feeling that no. I still think that his ‘I don’t know’ after Dean’s ‘What broke the connection?’ was honest.

Now let me fast forward to season 12, because this post is getting too long already and while seasons 9-11 had some good episodes and even good destiel scenes I feel this was the time many people - rightly so - were starting to lose faith in canon destiel, starting with Dean not letting Cas stay in the bunker in season 9 and bros acting like they only call Cas when they need him. I repeat - there were still some good episodes, even great ones. And we were shown Cas worried about Dean and being there for him anytime Dean called, there was so much pining but once again let me raise The Question: did Cas know what he was feeling was love? Or was he still confused, not letting himself believe, not being able to name his own feelings and emotions? And this is merely my opinion but this is also time where many people started to be bitter and negative by how writers treated Cas (and other characters in general but I am not gonna dive into that dumpster now, especially the Cas-having-sex-with-a-reaper thing which was awful, but in retrospect is even more awful because if it was Chuck’s writing this seems like some kind of sick attempt to do a conversion therapy and I want to throw up; plus he thought? he was into his boss at gas’n’sip and he thought she was into him and what even was it if not a. bad writing; b. Cas being confused; c. Cas being confused about this bad writing).

So season 12. First of all 12x12, when Cas thought he is gonna die and the infamous line ‘I love you. I love all of you’ happened. I  am 100% sure this is when Cas realized. This must have prompted questions for him. Why did I say what I said? He blurted those words out but why like that? Aaaand after some thinking I think he realized why. He must’ve been like ‘oooops’. But then Jack was about to be born and he had to protect Kelly and then he died.

And then he is in the Empty who says - I know who you love, I know what you fear, there is nothing for you out there. She doesn’t know shit, she just has access to Cas’ mind and apparently those were his thoughts, already at that time, he thought there was nothing for him out there (again, his depression issues) BUT THEN CAS, MY SWEET CAS, THIS BAD ASS MOTHERFUCKER says fuck you Empty in one of his best monologues (before 15x18 I’d say it was his best but here we are) and she yeets him out, because HE decided HE is already saved and he doesn’t need a permission and you can preen and you can scream and yell and remind me of my failings but somehow, I'm awake. And I will stay awake and I will keep you awake until we both go insane. I will fight you. Fight you and fight you for... ever. For eternity. 

And then Jack dies and he takes the humiliating deal.  And now we’re at 15x18 and he says: ‘I have always wondered.... ever since I took that burden.... What my true happiness can even look like... Because the one thing I want is the one thing I can’t have’. SEE THESE WORDS HERE ARE WHY I CAN’T SLEEP AT NIGHT. BECAUSE THEY IMPLY at least to me THAT:

1. He was aware of his feelings, he knew what he felt was love at the time he took the deal. and after that he was like ‘I guess I am immortal now’ because the one thing I want is the one thing I can’t have so nothing else is going to make him truly happy; this also implies that there is only one thing he truly wants and the rest is just not that important, whatever else happens won’t make him happy which is heartbreaking;

2. He knew what he wanted, so this means that at some point he wondered, he imagined, he took his time to picture the ‘thing’ he wanted. Which is life with Dean. Because he is in love. LIKE HE THOUGHT ABOUT THIS, HE REALLY DID AND HE CONCLUDED THAT THIS IS OUT OF HIS REACH (now people argue if that is because he thinks it’s unrequited or because he thinks that something something hunter life-fighting all the time-no attachments lifestyle won’t allow them to have this sort of life - and frankly, knowing that he learned everything, or almost everything about emotions from Dean, who isn’t really good at them, I am not surprised if he is sure that this feeling is one-sided, because maybe he conquered his fears in the Empty the first time around but taking the deal must have made him anxious and Chuck still calls him self-hating so he probably thinks this is one-sided and he is unworthy of love anyway);

3. He tried to imagine different scenarios that would make him happy but eventually it all came down to That One True Scenario, out of his reach, that couldn’t compare with anything else, and he tells Jack - you know about that deal, it’s ok, I don’t see myself becoming happy anytime soon AND IT HURTSSS

so to conclude and tl;dr - I think Cas realized that what he was feeling was love after 12x12 although he felt it before but might have been confused by it. I do not think he was ~in love~ since 4x01. There was tension and there was pining but no. This feeling evolved, it didn’t *just* happen in the barn. 

also i am so sorry this took so long but i have thoughts and feelings and can’t form a coherent sentence since november 5th anyway thanks for asking nonny, ily!!!!

im scared with where deancas is going and im actually really glad im not the only one, it was great to read your post on endgame destiel because i feel very strongly that way too. I want something to happen in the next couple of episodes. I hoped with the build up we saw in s12/13 was only back peddled because they want to leave destiel for the very endgame, but now they know s15 is the last and they knew that writing these episodes... i want to be optimistic, but have to be realistic too

The thing is, during the S12/13 escalation I was convinced Destiel was on the cards. The whole thing played out like a Victorian gothic romance novel. That ain’t subtext. That’s text. I maintain my stance that the mixtape was the point of no return on Destiel. They can’t come back from that. 

They HAVE hit the breaks since then, and it has constantly been a source of annoyance for me. Leaving me frustrated and confused that they would just stop like that. So yeah, we can float our theories and spec on the topic, but at the end of the day we have two directions left, either they pick up the pace and start making serious call backs to the S12/13 escalation right now and bringing that story to the front line again, or they keep it completely out of the main story, put all the focus on family instead of romance and leave the Destiel stuff out of the minds of the general audience. The second route could still give us something ambiguous at the very end, but it isn’t the grand love story I have always hoped for. I would still feel cheated if that happens. I just happen to think this is the more likely route. 

The next two episodes should give us an indication of which direction season 15 will follow. It all relies on several possible outcomes all related to Cas’s Empty Deal:

Option 1. The deal gets either no mention or only a very small mention and nothing happens in relation to it. Season 14 ends darkly, but not in a way that relates to Cas specifically. There is no obvious Destiel subtext, but Cas’s empty deal still looms over season 15.

This option means its all still up in the air but will leave me still feeling pretty negative over summer hiatus. By delaying the Empty deal completely until Season 15, there is still a potential for it to be triggered by romantic Destiel. The course could still change EVEN if Season 14 gives us nothing. I wouldn’t hold my breath, but I would still have a smidgen of hope that things could turn around.

Option 2. Cas goes to the Empty due to the deal triggering in the finale (as a Mary mirror this seems likely to me). It is NOT triggered by Destiel. It is triggered by Chuck’s return giving Jack a soul, fixing the current issues, and giving Cas the catharsis he has needed all series from his father that the boys got from John in 14x13. Cas finally being rid of his guilt over heaven and being able to finally free himself from heavens bonds could be enough to trigger the Empty deal if it is played alongside a happy Winchester family reunion.

In this option, Cas’s “permission to be happy” comes from Chuck, and him being accepted as a true Winchester brother. I think this option was foreshadowed in 14x18 especially with the MW carving on the table and the empty space still left under the SW:

If Cas’s deal is triggered this way, then I can’t see Destiel being a factor at all in Season 15 outside of the usual subtext. Simply because it takes away the one thing we all otherwise know to be as good as fact: that Cas is in love with Dean. For Cas to be truly happy, this option does imply that there is no unrequited (at least in his mind) love between him and Dean, and that he is completely at peace just being Dean’s brother. I feel this would be a huge disservice to Castiel as a character who has clearly IMO been written as in romantic love with Dean since at least season 6.

This option does however still give us something exciting - in terms of the poetic cyclic story telling currently being used in the show, having Season 15 start with Dean going to the Empty to rescue Cas in a reverse of Cas’s rescue of Dean in Season 4 is a beautiful potential plot that I would thoroughly enjoy. It doesn’t however mean Destiel - though I suppose there is a potential for them to explore even though it puts Cas’s feelings into question.

Option 3. Cas breaks or changes the terms of the Empty deal in some way - goes to the Empty of his own volition in order to save someone else or stop something.

This option is another potential cop out of the otherwise extremely tropey current deal. But writing it this way still does give us potential Destiel depending on Dean’s reaction and what happens next, because it once again leaves it open. It doesn’t confirm or deny Cas’s feelings for Dean. However it certainly wouldn’t rekindle my faith in endgame Destiel, but leave me even more curious as to what happens next.

Option 4. Cas goes to the Empty due to the elements in option 2 PLUS a confession or something from Dean giving us canon Destiel. 

Obviously this is the preferred option. In my opinion, the ONLY way that Cas would give himself permission to be TRULY happy and have the deal triggered in its current state would require the following things:

Jack’s soul is restored and he is back to normal

The Winchesters reunite as a strong family

Cas is TOLD that he is a part of that family unconditionally

Chuck returns and gives Cas the catharsis he needs to forgive himself for his actions in heaven

Dean confesses his love

(The final point being the trigger following all the previous elements taking place)

Do I think option 4 is likely? Not really. I just haven’t seen enough build up even in subtext for this to happen in the Season 14 finale. Do I think option 2 could happen without that final key point though? Yes.

At this stage I would honestly prefer options 1 or 3 taking place so I can at least still have hope in the ambiguity, but in my mind Cas is set up to go to the Empty at the end of the season. Mary’s death confirmed that to me, and the current treatment of Cas as well in the latest episode also seems to be setting up for his loss having a huge impact on the Winchesters. The story is being reset. Season 15 should start with Sam and Dean alone having lost everything, and then the course of the season leads them to fight for everything they desire. 

The reason I say this is that this season is all about asking the question “What do you want?” I want Season 15 to start with the Winchesters answering that question themselves, and then fighting to get it. 

Perhaps, if this does happen without the Destiel element at the end of season 14, there is STILL a small potential for Destiel to happen based on DEAN’S actions in Season 15, as Castiel’s return would be the answer to the question “what do you want?” when posed to Dean. I would still see it as a disservice to Castiel, but this would depend on how the show takes that potential story forward.

This is my spec anyway. Lets hope I’m wrong.