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blueberry-bubbles130 · 9 months

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The disappointment of the characterisation of the Bourgeois family in Miraculous Ladybug.

This essay/post will be talking about my feelings regarding the characterisation of Bourgeois family, as I'm doing a rewrite fanfiction of Miraculous and the Bourgeois family plays an extremely important part in my rewrite.

Trigger Warnings include:

TW: Child abuse

Child neglect

Verbal abuse

Emotional abuse

Domestic Violence

If I have forgotten to add any trigger warnings in the post please comment and I'll add them as soon as I can.

Getting this out of the way with now because I don't want to focus on her in this post, and because she won't be in my rewrite at all, I don't like Zoe. In the canon of the show all she serves as is a replacement for Chloe and a wielder of the Bee Miraculous. Unfortunately in the canon show, she is tied to the miraculous and Chloe in such a way that she cannot be talked about with bringing Chloe salt/bashing into the discussion, and has no true character of her own out of just being nice. There are others in the show who already could've filled the role much better. Zoe is far better written in fanon and fanfiction. But I don't want to be beating a long dead horse so there are other posts you can read to see Zoe's poor implementation in the show, and absolutely great fanfictions you can read that gives her a developed character if you like her. With that being said lets get onto the main essay.

Who are the Bourgeois family?

In the show the Bourgeois family are an upper class family that are said to hold a lot of influence. The family consists of Andre Bourgeois; the patriarch of the family who owns a hotel, and is also the mayor of Paris. Audrey Bourgeois; the matriarch of the family and a famous fashion critic. And Chloe Bourgeois; the child of the family and the temporary bee miraculous holder. The Bourgeois family can be considered a large secondary example of Miraculous's wasted potential, and it's inability to truly give a satisfying conclusion to any concept they've tried to execute during it's run. And some will say this is just the end of an arc and season 6 will continue and deliver. But it won't, especially considering Miraculous' record with delivering on expected plotlines it isn't promising in the slightest and I do not hold hope for season 6. Despite this, I'm rather interested in the Bourgeois family, and they are my favourite part of Miraculous making it even more disappointing to see the outcome of the plotline involving them.

Audrey Bourgeois-

I'm doing Audrey Bourgeois first because despite having a lot to say about all the family members, I have the least to say about Audrey.

Audrey is characterised as a harsh fashion critic who has nothing kind to say about anyone around her. Her kind words are only reserved for someone who can truly impress her, examples being Marinette and Gabriel. Marinette being shown to the audience and Gabriel being told to the audience. She is responsible for launching Gabriel into fame as a fashion designer. Audrey isn't even remotely nice to her own family. She abandons them mostly and seems to return only when work arises in Paris. And even then she belittles both her husband and Chloe constantly.

Something I find interesting in fanfiction for Miraculous Ladybug is that before we got any glimpse of who Audrey is. Everyone assumed she'd died and they either called her Simone or Julia, Julie or Juliette. And this gave depth to both Chloe, and Andre. This will be discussed again later.

Audrey's character has at least stayed consistent throughout Miraculous' ever-increasing run, which is a miracle considering Miraculous issues with characterisation, among other issues. However at the same time it's quite odd considering unlike Andre who got more developed regarding his past and what he wants, Audrey remains quite flat character-wise with only glimpses of there possibly something else to her. I think that Audrey despite staying consistent and explaining a lot about Chloe and Andre, she's still wasted potential. In one of the episodes characters such as Gabriel, Natalie and and I think maybe Tomoe are shown watching important story information on a tv. This would seemingly hint that Audrey had something to do with Gabriel. Which is believable considering Audrey's personality and previous appearances with Gabriel. However as of season 5 this has not been expanded upon in anyway whatsoever and like I keep saying I doubt it will be in season 6 or future seasons if they get anymore. This makes me believe that Audrey should've been expanded upon as a villain, she could've stolen a miraculous and possibly became a main villain. She's close to Gabriel, she's got the perfect personality for it; the only thing she needed to be a good villain was a decent motivation and I easily could've believed her becoming a villain if she'd been given decent motivation. She's already controlling and demanding, so Zoe could've never been introduced and you could've had it so she wants ultimate control over Andre and Chloe while placing herself as some sort of evil Queen. And that's all I really have to say about Audrey. Hell! I've already seen a few posts where people state that Audrey should've taken over as mayor after Andre, which makes a hell of a lot more sense then Chloe doing it. It's not exactly the same because she's the stepmother, but something I think Audrey should've been a bit like but far more toned down for the child audience is like Julia Cotton from Hellraiser. She's just so perfect as a example of someone willing to go to extremes in order to achieve their desires. Hell it's already there in her akuma, Style Queen! Just make her an evil queen, it wouldn't have been that hard and then we wouldn't have to deal with that mess we got with them attempting to make Gabriel sympathetic but then being shown him horribly abusing his son with glee at every opportunity he gets. You could keep Gabriel and Natalie sympathetic and make Audrey even more despicable than she is.

Also Audrey is clearly abusive, and in 2023 we should not need to have debates over whether she is because some people say she's just cruel. No she's abusive, it's clearly abuse.

Chloe Bourgeois-

Chloe is definitely my favourite character out of the Bourgeois family and Miraculous as a whole, and while her characterisation post season 3 does sadden and disappoint me, it doesn't anger me like what the writers did with Andre.

Chloe starts the series as nothing more than an obnoxious bully who torments her classmates. When we get to season 2 we get to see Chloe receive more depth as a character and see how her parents helped her in becoming the person she is today. Then season 3 happened and we see Miracle Queen. Now I don't think Miracle Queen is completely horrid, It makes sense that Chloe may begin to regress or backslide into her unhealthy habits. And I've even seen people still redeem her with miracle queen being in their stories. What pisses me off about Miracle Queen, especially when people online talk about it, is that they just seem to forget about Gabriel akumatising Audrey and Andre to use as blackmail against Chloe. Like yes at the end of the day, Chloe still makes the decision to become Miracle Queen and do what she did. But you cannot deny that a fully grown man who should know better, put the two people she presumably cared about the most at this point in danger in order to blackmail her. He cornered her on the balcony and essentially railroaded her into making that decision. Like what was she going to do if she said no, she can't fight Hawkmoth without a miraculous and even if she'd tried he might've legitimately hurt her or her parents to win. Here again we see fanfics just knock the show out of the water, with many people deciding to make Chloe trick Hawkmoth into giving her the miraculous and then she just runs away to get help. Also Marinette shouldn't have gotten involved in Chloe's family drama, like why did she think it was a good idea to do what she did in Queen wasp. Just why?

Something else regarding Chloe's character arc that just genuinely confuses me is that during season 2 it's obvious in episodes like Zombizou, Style Queen, Queen Wasp and Malediktator is that they're written by other writers who have differing opinions on Chloe to Thomas Astruc. And now I think Thomas was busy on a different project while this was was being written, which is fine. But what confuses me is that surely Thomas could've looked over the episode script and maybe said to change it. Instead of just letting a character he clearly does not like get development he also didn't like and then arguing with Chloe fans and Miraculous fans who may not like Chloe but understand her character arc was butchered as well as others, on twitter over it.

As well as this is season 5, I think it's revealed season 1-5 of Miraculous takes place over 1 school year. In France the average school year is about 10 months long lasting from September to late June early July. This means each season could technically take place over about 2 months. This gives Chloe 2-4 months at most to redeem herself. Which is just too much to expect of her to try and completely redeem herself and undo a lifetime of unhealthy behaviours in that short of a timespan. No wonder Miracle Queen happened, she hasn't had the proper support to try and unlearn those behaviours or redeem herself. And it makes Andre giving her over to her mother even more saddening/rage enducing, because Zoe has been around for the same time Chloe was given to try and unlearn her healthy behaviours. So Andre has abandoned his daughter who's he risen for her entire 13-14 year life for some child he's known for about 3 months at best.

Then season 4 and 5 begin the endless parade of Chloe Salt/Bashing in order to prop up Zoe. As well as the butchering of other characters, to continue hammering in that point, such as Andre, but we'll get to him later. Now I'm not saying I'm completely against the idea of evil Chloe, there are some brilliant fanfics out there with Chloe just either hamming it up as an evil villain or treated as a tragic villain, who's fall from grace is a pure tradegy. And I love it both because it treats Chloe with the seriousness she deserves, the majority of fanfics treat the abuse she's suffered with seriousness and not as some joke like the serious does. You want a absolutely brilliant Chloe Bourgeois fanfic read "Float like a Butterfly, Sting like a Bee" on ao3 it's just so good and I can't recommend it enough.

Also on the topic of redemptions Sabrina, Felix, Natalie and especially Gabriel shouldn't gotten redemptions. Gabriel, Sabrina and Felix don't show any remorse for their actions, in fact they all show glee in their actions apart from Natalie. But even then none of them truly face any punishments for their actions and sure Gabriel doesn't get to enjoy Emilie being back alive, but he still gets away with his numerous crimes.

As a final note on Chloe's development, it's been said by some people before it's quite harmful that Chloe doesn't get treated with the seriousness that she deserves and is one of the only villains not given a redemption as well as not being what is considered a "perfect" or "idealised" victim of abuse like Adrien is. And as someone who has lashed out at others due to issues with authoritive figures in the past (not to the extent Chloe has thought, especially with the bullying and wealth, I'm also not French) I do relate to Chloe in a small way. And this makes it harder for me personally, and it really is just harmful because it might give kids who have lashed out like her due to similar or the same issues the same idea that they don't deserve love or a guardian who can actually care for them in the way they need, as children.

I'm not saying give Chloe a redemption, she just should've been treat with the seriousness she needed.

Gettting back on track lets talk about the final member of the Bourgeois family.

Andre Bourgeois-

Oh Andre, where do I begin with him, in canon.

For seasons 1 to 3 he's mainly Chloe's nervous father and enabler. Then we get a bit of depth in season 4 and 5 about him wanting to be a director but not getting to due to Audrey and politics. Then in season 5 he lets Audrey take Chloe.

A deleted part of the script was revealed in which originally he gave Chloe to Audrey which in itself is horrific because he knows how Audrey is. Not only has she subjected Chloe to verbal abuse but him as well. This would be changed in the series to him just letting Audrey take Chloe, which is just as worse. These are just as bad because either way he's trying to absolve himself of any responsibility of what happened with Chloe which he is equally responsible for as he is Chloe's main enabler. And you know I actually had some hope for him in canon that he'd realise it was time to as someone else brilliantly put it "ditch the bitch" and forge a better relationship with Chloe, but that never happened. I guess that's what I get for having hope for Miraculous's canon.

It legitimately pisses me off so fucking much than in canon he gets to wash his hands clean of the whole problem with Chloe.

Now fanon Andre is so much better than his Canon counterpart and thinking about it now, Fanon Andre has always been better than his canon counterpart.

Bringing back up the whole thing about fanfics that pre-date Audrey is that it gives not only Chloe but Andre more depth. These fanfics typically paint the picture that Andre is a man that closed off not only by politics but the death of his wife and because he's not in tune with his own emotions, he can't help Chloe so instead of ignoring her grief like her father, Chloe is lashing out instead.

Even fanon versions of Andre that are more far more closed off, corrupt, and evil are much more enjoyable to read about than canon Andre, and have more depth. Something about Canon Andre just makes him even more loathsome and detestable then his many often better fanon versions. And when he does get redeemed in fanon it's just so good, because the people writing him, understand what makes his character have actual depth to him and make him realise his faults in a satisfying way that gives him a good redemption.

Maybe it was just me projecting the fanon versions of Andre onto the Canon version that made my disappointment and anger so much worse. But either way his overall canon characterisation is disappointing.

Again if you want to a fanfic that has Andre be a good antagonist, read "Chloe and the Bee" by @anxresi it isn't complete but what is there is just brilliant. And If you'd prefer to read a fanfiction where Andre is trying his best to be a good parent to Chloe read "Float like a Butterfly....Sting like a Bee" by Bookmonkey on ao3. They're both such amazing fanfics.

Conclusion-

Overall the characterisation of the Bourgeois family within the canon of the actual show is just a neatly packaged example of Miraculous' many issues such as bad writing, poor pacing, inconsistent characterisation and either attempting to poorly redeem abusers who should know better or just letting them get away without any consequences whatsoever.

I'd like to say thank you for listening to my long feral rambles about the Bourgeois family.

#miraculous ladybug #chloe bourgeois #audrey bourgeois #andre bourgeois #zoe lee #ml salt #miraculous salt #ml critical #ml analysis #mlb chloe #andré bourgeois #marinette salt #ml fandom salt #this just has a little fandom salt though not a lot

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canonically-a-genloser · 6 months

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Please explain all the genloss characters to me

All I know is the stuff from the live I haven’t kept up with anything else

oh boy you're gonna have a TIME reading this one brother i'm gonna spend hours typing out the insane stuff the randy collective has come up with

okay so the insaneification of genloss started with sneeg. FANON IS WRONG ABOUT HIM HE IS WRONG IN EVERY FIC THE MASSES DO NOT UNDERSTAND HIM . so basically to be true to the canon sneeg mutual started actually talking about the trauma he would have and how genuinely fucked up he would be and that's how the randy collective started. anyways i touched on the whole being raised by showfall thing which ties into kids theory. charlie and sneeg would have been so so so codependent and toxic and they love each other and they're all over each other like animals but they'll also fight to the fucking death because showfall can just revive them. (there's a creature au as well that is very cool but i'll talk about that later if i remember.) frank was sneeg's boyfriend and he got permakilled for it and i will come back to this (but also. side note. yellow is frank's color. that's the color of the number code ran chose to put into the computer. maybe this doesn't mean anything but i think the yellow connecting to frank and the fact that he was dead was foreshadowing but take that as you will. moving on)

generation loss charlie. everyone talks about him. everyone loves charlie. they don't care about sneeg. charlie knows this and he will use it against sneeg any way he can. he's the favourite and he flaunts that at sneeg and knows showfall would kill sneeg if he said the word. at the same time sneeg knows this and he would be so fucking jealous of that. he would kill charlie for it. he'd regret it but that wouldn't stop him. it's the cain and abel symbolism and it could be explained so much better but i really really love this point so i had to mention it.

another thing about charlie being the favorite. charlie genuinely doesn't have anyone without sneeg. so when frank comes along and starts talking to sneeg and basically taking his brother away from him he gets jealous of that. there's multiple endings to this one but it was an interesting point.

last thing about charlie for now the charlie mutual made headcanons for transfem/transmasc charlie separately and they are so cool. i can't remember who had the idea of aroace charlie but we love that too. we spin him in the washing machine

i have my own version of ran as well. in all my post escape aus they use hearing aids and prosthetic eyes from where the box messed up their face. (SHOWFALL EMPLOYEE AUS GO SO FUCKING HARD WITH THIS ONE. TO ME. i literally cannot forget to talk about this later.) but yeah that's my basic design idea and the headcanons for this guy are crazy. one of my favorites is the one that sneeg and charlie were literally on top of each other all the time being brothers so ranboo adopted that kind of show of affection post escape. they're fucked up brothers your honor

hETCH IS NOT THE VILLAIN. HE IS A VICTIM TOO. the popular headcanon is that he's also gay for the founder and sometimes we like to think about how it would be funny if the founder were gay for him too but honestly hetch is most likely just their emotional support wet cat. but yeah charlie mutual started making headcanons about charlie and hetch being blood brothers and i was never able to erase that from my memory /vvpos . i love thinking about that dynamic too for so so many reasons. hetch staying with charlie and sneeg and basically raising them and there's just so much in there that i can't even get into yet because i haven't explained the employees BUT I WILL I PROMISE

niki is such a fucking fun one to think about too. i don't have much on her because she's actually characterized decently well from what i've seen but @/white-collar-cannibal has an au where she cuts off her hair and just. the butch niki headcanons. it's such a cool concept. because we've discussed her too and as popular hcs go niki was brought in as a teenager. i think we said 14-15 (but don't quote me on that i could be wrong). but the basic idea is showfall made her be pretty and she wants to be like sneeg. she wants to fight and be able to stomach stuff like all the gruesome stuff showfall fed sneeg and charlie as kids and ough. it's just so cool to think about i love her character

I'M GONNA REBLOG WITH STUFF ABOUT THE OC SHOWFALL EMPLOYEES (AND ANYTHING ELSE MAJOR I MISSED SO FAR) BUT I'VE BEEN TYPING FOR SO LONG AND THIS PROBABLY MAKES ZERO SENSE THE WAY I WORDED HALF OF THIS SO .

EDIT: tumblr notifs ate it but @/white-collar-cannibal actually came up with the transfem charlie hcs! my bad on that one i don't remember who does what sometimes!!

#toad <3 #im so normal i swear

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the-s1lly-corner · 1 year

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Creepypasta au ramblings

Including some ideas, headcannons, potential plot stuff, ect ect

Gotta get the brain juices flowing and written down somewhere

Okay so. Admittedly, I haven't really been working on the au that much, due to my hyper fixiation on the owl house taking up my brain. And that'll likely still be the case with the upcoming finale so.. yeah!

Anyways, with what I have now;

I already know this is going to be a written collection of various connected stories; as opposed to a comic <\3

If my experience with making comics in the past says anything to me, is that it'll crash and burn before any of the juicy stuff happens.. and I'll get burnt out incredibly fast

Only downside to sticking to a written format is that a lot of these characters have redesighs <\3

Not big ones, most carry their basic look that just about everyone knows

Save for Kagekao and Laughing Jill

Good news is, Kagekao, as of now, doesn't have a role.. yet.. maybe.. again, I'm still figuring out the overarching story

Bad news: Laughing Jill is actually a huge roll in one of the side plots (more on that later). She still holds the same basic design elements as her canon design has: black and white clown gal

Only difference between the real design and my take is that Laughing Jill is a funky ragdoll; and she's small because.. yk, she's a doll. Can literally fit inside a decent sized backpack (again, will elaborate on this later)

Though of course I suppose I could just

Describe her as small

(I'm dumb and writing this as I think)

Moving on

I also want to do different plots and side things that all either connect to larger story, or show different perspectives and such; maybe each chapter switching from one characters POV to another

And I already have a long term plot! For... two specific characters

I want there to be a side thing where Jane is trying to hunt down Jeff and put an end to him for

Well

You know

Offing her parents

Along the way she stumbles into Jill, and the two team up to find the dude; along with Jane trying to balance her goal and everyday life. Because unlike most of the other characters, she lives a very normal life otherwise... when you don't look at her past. She has a job, she lives in her own apartment, she's gotten her education. Other than gunning for Jeff, she has no interest in taking the lives for others. So with Janes chapters it'll likely follow both settings/sides of her life

Speaking of settings

Locations

I don't know where exactly it would take place; country/town wise.. it may be spread out across different areas since itd be odd if all these creatures and stuff were living in the same place; gotta dispurse them or people will just. Leave the area

Yk?

But as for like

Actual places that the characters will be interacting in will be anywhere from towns, woods, eft ect

And yes

Because this is a mix of fanon and canon

The slender mansion will be in this au

Although probably not in the way most people interpret it; it won't really be a safe house for every creepypasta character buuuuut im still working on the way i should execute it

Probably make it a hotel of sorts; for most characters its not a permanent home. Be it they dont wish to stay, or they arent welcome there

Moving on, Im gonna write masky/tim and hoodie/brian the same way i do in my silly imagines and hc posts; treat the proxy as a separate personality from the person. Each having their own set of morals, behaviors, and memories; not too dissimilar to how MH shows them off IIRC

Though these versions of them are a mix of MH and CRP since I enjoy both renditions, as a fan of both materials. Plus I feel like if this did become something, a few of yall would be upset if i didnt have them... plus theyre fun to write

Speaking of characters that 100% wont be in the au, for various reasons, are:

Ticci Toby: because I just don't really jive with him like i used to, and the character has more or less been ruined for me by others.... though theres a chance he MAY appear, its just HIGHLY unlikely

Clockwork: she just makes me uncomfortable

Off*nderman: do i really need to elaborate on why I'm not adding him?

Really those are the main 3 I have beef with, but

Yeah

Anyways

Yeah idk what else to type but

Hopefully I'll have more ideas cooked up soon

#creepypasta headcanon #creepypasta #crp

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dreamhot · 3 years

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Ooh I like you idea of the fan spaces. It's something in the comic books fandom we've noticed because writers spend so much time interacting with fans on twitter, we've noticed a fanon bleed into canon. So it definitely is a thing that's happening all over the place

oh absolutely! and what's worth noting is that it's not always a bad thing. i think it's perfectly reasonable for creators to listen to feedback or see what the fandom is enjoying/clamouring for and accommodate that in some capacity, if it makes sense to do so. situations like a fanon character design element, or maybe exploring a dynamic or side plot that was intended as a throwaway... hell, even retconning a poor narrative choice isn't the end of the world

where it becomes a problem is when fans EXPECT this sort of treatment, and usually on a larger scale (ie 'the plot isn't going where i want it to, change it' or even 'i am choosing to ignore the creator's choices in order to further my own interpretation' - not the end of the world, but i'll expand upon this later). you can't always look at the creators and say confidently 'yeah, i think you changed your original idea to appease the fans', but you still get a Vibe that something's not going as planned, yknow? (see: tma, which i have very strong feelings about)

of course i'm pretty sure there's also an ethical problem in the world of actual tv shows/etc, in that writers Should Not be engaging with fan content while the show is running in order to avoid inadvertent plagiarism lmaoo (goes to show that some fans can have very good ideas !! but these aren't the people i'm talking about)

nothing is ever going to stop fanon, and it's not obviously inherently terrible anyway. that's not my issue. it's been a joke since day one that fanwork creators will elect to ignore the bits of canon they don't enjoy while making their own art/writing/etc - there's nothing wrong with that. there are two main issues that i see with fanon, and they are 1) when the aforementioned attitude gets directed at the ccs themselves, and 2) when people get attacked for going against popular fanon as though it's the word of god. that last bit can be especially insidious in a way that not everyone notices

okay i'm writing too much already i need to save it for the actual essay LOL

#anon #smile.ask #long post

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jedi-order-apologist · 4 years

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I'll try to keep this minimal but it's still a rant so please bear with me. re: aro / ace aspect of the Jedi reading as suppressing love/ emotions by fans. I think this way of reading can be traced back to the creators’ inability to accept that some people are capable of going their whole lives without actually being romantic or having children. Take Kanan and Obi-Wan for example. Dave's casual answer for Kanan leaving behind a child was "it's something people do" (1/?)

Yes, it is. But was it absolutely necessary? Because their story is fine even without it imo. It’s sad but still satisfying. This idea that two people had to have children? Why? Which brings me to Dave’s new comments that Obi-Wan gets Anakin’s love for Padme because he was in love with someone too. Again this idea that only if he’d experienced same kind of love then he could understand Anakin or else he would never have is bullshit. (2/?)

Because even without that romance angle to his character in the movies we all perfectly got it that he understood Anakin’s dilemma. His platonic love and care for Qui Gon, Anakin, and Padme in movies is enough demonstration that he understood love and loss. But sadly Dave is one of those people who believes people can’t go without romance or children at some point in life. Not to mention how everyone believes Korkie is Obi-Wan’s love child because he resembles him (3/?)

which is there because Dave designed it to be.Which again is a product of people unable to believe or understand aro/ ace aspect of people’s lives. So it’s not ALL fans’ doing, even the creators are partly responsible for feeding these ideas in their narratives. Whether it is anti-Jedi statements from Sith or these secret love/ love child ideas some of it is supported from canon narratives too. Creators do push these ideas to defend characters’ choices or opinions. (4 / ?)

Like they are saying It’s not that these characters are suppressing love, they ALL have done it, which IS WHY they get it HENCE their opinion is valid on the subject. Which is imo unnecessary. They are valid in their choices without the need to explain their man pain or whatever back story to support their choices. I’m sorry this got real long. I hope I make sense. It’s not that I’m against any of those romance/ child takes but it’s this idea that it MUST or HAS TO BE there mentality. (4/4)

I think I got the numbering wrong on previous ask it’s 5/5 I guess, not 4. Sorry I lost count.

I think I get what you’re saying. And I agree, it’s not purely on the fans. Fanon interpretations aren’t actually purely sourced in fanon; it’s muddled by the influences of the expanded material (and this starts long before TCW, though of course TCW is a major influence). So even while most people would agree that the movies supersede everything else in terms of narrative intention (NOT in value, that’s not what I’m saying here, of course the expanded material has value and if people prefer it to the movies that’s completely fine), there is a tendency to project those later interpretations back onto the films even though the films weren’t influenced at all by those stories and interpretations.

So, yeah - Obi-Wan already understood the situation between Anakin and Padmé without a romantic history of his own, since one was never present for him in the films. While I did like the relationship between him and Satine in TCW, I hate the prevalent idea that that “humanized” him or was “needed” to make him relatable (to either the audience or Anakin). And I’ve gotten really tired of the “Korkie is their love child” theory - it was funny as a ridiculous crack theory, but taking it seriously? No thank you, that seems to completely go against what I saw as the point of that relationship in the first place, which was ultimately to be a foil to Anakin and Padmé’s relationship, not an analogue to it. The way I see it, that relationship was less about developing Obi-Wan’s character (because, as you say, we’ve already seen him deal with love and loss in the films) and more about being a demonstration of an appropriate way for a Jedi to handle romantic feelings to highlight what Anakin and Padmé did wrong. Any comparable characters could’ve worked in that role; Obi-Wan was just a convenient choice since he’s a main character.

But sometimes I do wish they’d gone with someone else because it would’ve been nice for at least one of the main trio of the show to be explored without romance. Obviously it would never have been Anakin since Luke and Leia had to come from somewhere, but unlike him, Ahsoka and Obi-Wan didn’t specifically need love interests. And as part of a larger trend across the expanded material to give every other Jedi a love interest, it reflects a complete inability to comprehend a culture that doesn’t put a fraction as much emphasis on romance as we do. And in my opinion, devalues such a culture as well. It’s sadly not surprising that so many fans hold so little regard for Jedi rules when there’s so much emphasis on what they’re “denied” rather than what they find fulfilling about their lives. Conflict is more interesting, of course, but there are other ways for characters to become conflicted about their path, ways that are sadly underutilized compared to romance.

And, like you, I’m not against any of those relationships individually. I like shipping well enough, it’s fun - but it’s not the foundation of my fandom experience, even in fandoms where I participate more in the shipping side of things than I do here. I’ll take many of the canon romances, I’ll take the fic of some of the non-canon ones…but I always find myself wishing for more exploration of those strong bonds outside of a romantic context, because that’s not the only way to have a strong bond.

I suppose it’s just one of those “be the change you wish to see” things. Someday I will get around to writing fic for this fandom, and it will most certainly be genfic because we could always use more of that.

#discussion #on fandom attitudes #on romance #Anonymous

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