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#i want these complex sibling relationships dc. give me this over trying to kill tim. there is more to siblings than the cain instinct.
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I need more content of Tim's jealousy when other siblings come in and become close to Dick. Like every time someone says Damian is Dick's favorite it hurts my heart a little cause I know how Tim would feel.
It's one thing for a younger sibling to grow up with you, cause like at least then you all have your defined roles and it's like what you know so you aren't stepping on one another's toes, but like it's something completely else to have a sibling who is already grown up come into the family and become siblings with your sibling.
It is just like that longing feeling when you see them together and like they haven't known each other as long yet they seem closer to your sibling than you are, and everyone knows they are the favorite and you are just like how do they get along so well with so little effort.
I need more Tim and Dick content like this. The boy went from being Dick's only sibling still around (aka no competition for being brothers and nothing to compare it to) to being like 1 of 5 of dick's siblings, and I know this also goes in reverse where the newer sibling is jealous of the older two siblings for already having the established bond, but I dont see enough of Tim having bitter envy of how close Damian and Dick are despite not knowing each other as long, like you want angsty relationships DC, show me this instead of just everyone trying to kill Tim, show me silent envy that grows more and more as it slowly decays a sibling relationship instead of like a weird ritual where if you wanna be apart of the family you have to attempt to kill tim
#sometimes i just need angsty tim#not tim getting targeted by siblings or tim getting annoyed at siblings#just Tim who finally became brothers with his idol and hero and formed a relationship with having to watch as it goes from their small#contained group of dick tim Bruce and babs where tim is like the best brother dick has got to everyone especially damian coming in#and tim feeling crowded out and jealous as damian and dick become closer than tim and dick ever were and tim slowly pulls away#and at first dick not even noticing and tim feeling guilty every time a dispute comes up and feeling guilty over how happy he feels when#damian ticks dick off and tim starts throwing himself into other things and flakes/cancels on things he and dick have planned and#finally one time tim and dick are sitting around and tim is like i miss how close we were and dick laughing is like well you're so busy now#and tim is like 'well its not like you need me anyway you have damian and jason and cass and duke and- nevermind' tim cuts himself off#dick is like 'timmy you know im still here for you just like before' and tim is just like 'yeah sure whatever' and heads out and then dick#starts noticing that tim is keeping him at arms length so he keeps trying to connect and he sees how tim keeps getting close with others#but that he refuses to with dick and then the jealousy is both ways and slowly they start to come together again as brothers and things#arent quite the same and probably will never be but they are still brothers and they love each other#but things are complicated when you go from the only sibling to having like 5 siblings and i want that explored more#i want these complex sibling relationships dc. give me this over trying to kill tim. there is more to siblings than the cain instinct.#anyway thats my rant#tim drake#dick grayson#batkids#batfam#bat family#batsiblings
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lysical-secondary · 7 years
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Do you think all the kids think of each other as siblings? Pretty much none of them grew up or were in Bruce's care at significantly overlapping times, and I'm not even sure to what extent like Dick or Tim see Bruce as their father or just a paternal/authority figure
This is heavily dependent on continuity because the new 52 did frankly weird things to some of these relationships. This is mostly Post-Crisis and may mesh with Rebirth since they’re drawing on Post-Crisis a bit more. I’m not including Duke yet because I’m not sure what’s officially happening there and it’s pretty clear they’re not yet at sibling stage there yet. 
Also, for some of these guys, they didn’t really interact at all so it’s all a bunch of assumptions. 
To start with, even Damian, who has technically always had siblings, was raised by Talia for a significant period and didn’t meet them until he was older and was indoctrinated to believe he was Bruce’s only child because he’s the only blood related one, which is horseshit because in Post-Crisis Bruce had spent about 20 years calling Jason his son and mourning him (DC was happy to make Bruce explicitly a father to Jason when he was dead, it’s actually quite interesting how it all changed with his return and the new 52. Ah, DC. I hate you.) 
So, Damian started out a hard ‘no’ and has only recently explicitly referred to Dick as his father’s son. They pretty clearly have a sibling relationship (with overlapping parent-child because of how they started out) but I don’t think this extends to his other siblings necessarily, although I think his constant focus on proving himself better than all his siblings shows that on some level he acknowledges them. Despite the start, he’s most likely going to end up thinking of all of them as his siblings, but the timeline on each will probably end up different. 
Cass is hard because DC keeps sidelining her. She started out very much fostered by Babs and Bruce wasn’t really a factor for her–she thought of him only as the Bat and didn’t give two twigs about who Bruce Wayne was. By the time Bruce offered the adoption for her I think she’d mostly established her relationships with the others–bar Damian and Jason, really. I think she and Tim probably relate more as friends because they were friends before either became family to Bruce, but it might slide naturally towards siblings because who’s to say that they didn’t see that in each other when they were ‘just’ friends? Dick was never really a friend and if he was anything it was something of a big brother mentor, so he could slide into that easily for her. I think Jason and Damian might slide into the role of ‘siblings’ easier simply because that’s how she was introduced to them. Bruce took her to Jason’s grave site and Damian was introduced as Bruce’s son, and they have no pre-existing relationships to complicate matters. It’s just whether Cass goes from ‘Bruce’s sons’ to ‘my brothers’ or not. I think she would, if DC would just stop sidelining her thanks. 
Tim and Dick had a brotherly relationship long before anything legal happened. But I honestly don’t see Tim seeing Bruce as his father. He was his mentor for a long time, and he’s definitely an important father figure and paternal influence in Tim’s life, but Tim was heavily invested in that reconciliation with his dad, and it actually seemed to be going places before DC decided to make another orphan. He was also much older when Jack Drake died. When Tim thinks of ‘dad’, it’s him, for better or worse. Tim clung to Bruce as a father after Bruce’s death, having lost another one so soon, but I just don’t see him doing such a switch, considering how he consistently seemed to pick Jack. I’m not saying Jack was a good father or anything, but yeah. I also don’t think his clinging to Bruce as extending to the rest of Bruce’s kids. Dick’s his brother for sure. Cass has been a female friend for a while and might already have been something of a sister, but Jason and Damian? Way harder sell. I think if he and Damian see each other as brothers it’s not happily. Jason and Tim…I’ll get to. 
Jason is without question Bruce’s son. He was, technically speaking, Bruce’s first son, as he was fully adopted in the 80s and after his death Bruce unequivocally called him by that when he spoke of him. Whatever retcons DC wants to do to push Damian as Bruce’s only kid, it’s whatever. There’s decades of history proving that wrong. Jason thinks of Bruce as his father, and was fairly happily adopted for a time. While Jason and Dick didn’t have much in a way of a relationship, I think it was probably still framed as ‘brothers’, of a kind, for them, since both seemed to have a bit of jealousy about the other that comes across fairly typically as sibling-like. It’s certainly not a significant relationship for either, but it’s there (Dick had a lot of regrets and I’m fairly convinced Jason became Little Brother in his head due to guilt afterwards). They haven’t really significantly interacted since his return until new 52/Rebirth really, there were some things in late Post-Crisis but Morrison…Anyway, they’re still quite coded in a big brother/little brother relationship, even when it was quite antagonistic. It was definitely not close though and could be argued. Jason and Damian have had very little interaction but they also have that weird thing with Talia. There has been some recent stuff in Rebirth with them. I think the Jason who came back wasn’t prepared to consider anyone who came after him a sibling, but I think Convergence and the recent stuff in Rebirth show that those two are going to end up in a fairly typical sibling relationship. It’s not there yet. 
Jason and Cass haven’t had any significant interactions in Post-Crisis (Cass was sidelined and I’m not sure they ever met) and he probably didn’t see her as much of anything at that point. If DC wasn’t sidelining Cass I could see them clicking the fastest on Jason’s end simply because he normally responds well to women generally anyway. 
Jason and Tim is where I diverge from Fandom at large. I really don’t care what the new 52 decided to do (literally they have a panel where Tim says flat out he’s not interacted with Jason much but still sees him as closest thing to a brother? I���m still boggling), it made absolutely no sense and came with no resolution. Tim calling himself Red Robin wouldn’t do crap to stop Jason ‘Petty’ Todd from seeing him as his replacement (because that’s what Red Robin functionally was) and Tim just ‘got over’ nearly being murdered by shrugging it off? No thanks. That and the complete erasure of Tim and Dick’s long history of their really strong (and important!) brotherly relationship killed me. I can’t do it, fam. 
Like…if you’ve read Lost Days and seen Jason’s reaction to Tim…I’m sorry but there is going to be some bitter resentment for a long, long time and I just do not see a fast resolution and happy family fun times there. Tim and Damian also have a longtime rivalry and I see the ‘Damian tried to kill him’ used a lot there, and I’m not sure why that just gets dropped with Jason and Tim. Jason brutalized him. Damian was a 10 year old (I think that was his pre-retcon age at the time, it might’ve been the pre-pre-retcon 8 though) who attempted to murder him. Jason was older, bigger and could’ve done it. I’m fairly sure Tim would remember that and not leap head first into a brotherly relationship there. Or any relationship. 
Moving along, Dick. Dick sees them all as his siblings. He takes to a big brother mentor role well and he’s out and out called all of them his siblings before. I think Cass would be the only one it’s more doubtful but I’m blaming DC and saying it would extend to her. His relationship with Bruce is much more complex. I think at this point, yes, Bruce is his father. I think it did not start out that way. Both of them went into it from a different place–Dick didn’t want a replacement father, Bruce wasn’t looking for a kid. But I think it changed naturally. Probably when Dick was about 16-17 and went through puberty and started to naturally grow up and out and Bruce’s reaction was to come down hard on that and be overbearing. Their epic fights from when Dick was about 17-18 until he was in this 20s were pretty intense and I think came from them both trying to re-navigate what they were to each other. Dick wasn’t adopted until he was in his 20s and at that point it was a ‘gesture’ for what was already long established. I think they still relate on a different level than purely father and son, which is that favoritism that Jason points out, but I do think that they view each other as that, now. It was a much longer and harder road getting there. 
Anyway this is my personal opinion based on mostly Post-Crisis and it’s comics so. 
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