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#i like that they did not go for the dernhelm story
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The Return of the King in 4k
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for the characters ask - what about eowyn? :)
oooooh, yessss I love me Eowyn-Dernhelm
First impression
You know, I initially didn't like her. At least in the movies. She came off a little too much of "I'm not like other girls~~~" for my tastes.
In the books, though, I always loved her because she was a stone cold bitch for 90% of the time until her personality transplant at the end.
Impression now
I still prefer book Eowyn to movie Eowyn (I personally find move Eowyn too 2D for my tastes).
I like book Eowyn for her flintiness. Strike her at the right (wrong?) angle and you'll start a forest fire. She would walk on you in a sexy way but it would also absolutely hurt. And that would be the point.
I also like book Eowyn's selfishness that runs equal to her brazenness, her fearlessness, her rage, her love. She's just as impulsive as her brother, it's simply masked more. I also really love her as a foil/mirroring to Grima - especially the mutual selfish Oath Breaking aspects of their characters. She's also just as likely to burn the world down, if for radically different reasons and done through a radically different way. I think that's a very nice, subtle touch on Tolkien's part.
The ambiguity of her gender subversion is also fun. It doesn't feel like the "~~I want to be a knight UWU I'm not like other girls UWU~~~" that a lot of characters can fall into who follow the same trope line as Eowyn. I'm so glad she escapes that and it feels more nuanced and complex.
I just love, love, love Book Eowyn's anger and recklessness and yeah. All her faults. She, like her uncle, is deeply human in a way that I appreciate.
Favorite moment
In the books - absolutely her argument/heated discussion with Aragorn before he leaves for the Paths of the Dead. Where she says that line about how when the men have died in battle and honour, women have leave to be burned in the houses the men left behind. And also that if someone tells her do her duty one more time she's going to shank a bitch (perhaps not exactly what she said, but the essence is there).
I also love the scene in the books when Theoden is like "but who will take care of Edoras while we're at Helm's Deep? My son is dead and Eomer won't listen to me if I told him to stay put. No one is left" and Hama is like, "???? Eowyn???? wtf how are you overlooking her???" And then she takes her vow/oath to stay and defend Edoras and she gets the great like about how there will be a Return of the King (to Edoras, she just means her uncle).
In the movies - I'm not sure. I suppose the scene with Grima at Theodred's deathbed is an interesting one.
Idea for a story
Same one as I did for Boromir: What if Boromir lives and Eowyn gets to shack up with him and Aragorn as the ultimate power couple? Let the woman be queen of Gondor!!
Unpopular opinion
I think movie Eowyn is a bit boring/too sad/needs way more rage in her. Be uglier! Be more insane! You're from the House of Eorl - no one in that family is normal!
In both book and movies, I don't think her relationship with Faramir is earned. And I know it's because Tolkien initially intended her for Aragorn then made a last minute change-up so there's really no building up of why they're good for each other and how it is she could possibly be happy settling for something we have been told over the course of last two books isn't what she wants.
Yeah, yeah, "she healed" or whatever and found a happier way to be after the war but it just reads as weak. Like, to me it just seems clearly shoehorned in as Tolkien absolutely pulled his punch so far as Eowyn's ending is concerned. He could have done better.
(Honestly, Aragorn has always made waaaay more sense as a partner for Eowyn than Faramir. It was such a let down to me as a kid watching the movies that they didn't end up together. I was like "whatever, Arwen has 2 minutes of screen time. Don't care. Let Aragorn get with this woman who sword fights and makes him laugh.")
I suspect my other unpopular opinion is that I don't think she and Eomer were ever very close. They do not give off vibes of siblings who confide in one another. It's clearly the sort of relationship where Eowyn is like "yeah that's my brother...I know absolutely nothing about him and vice versa. Despite his absence from my life he is still somehow overbearing and over-protective."
I mean we get that scene in the books where Eomer basically admits he doesn't know his sister at all and was always too busy to make time for her (and he regrets this).
But I know fandom likes to write them as besties.
Favorite relationship
Theoden, of course! I love her relationship with her uncle who is her veritable dad. I think it's so sweet and probably one of the most important relationships in her life. I can't imagine what she felt when he died in front of her. Like, the heart shattering and the anger and the grief and so on. It must have been a red-hot knife to the chest.
I also like her and Aragorn in the book. They have great conversations and clearly are able to push against one another yet still clearly respect and care for each other.
Favorite headcanon
(Power couple with Boromir and Aragorn)
She cut her hair when she became Dernhelm. None of this flowing locks down to her ass somehow hidden under her helmet. Do you know how much hair she would have? Absolutely not. She chopped that shit off Mulan-style. It was somewhere between chin and shoulders in the style of Rohirrim men.
----
Thank you so much for the ask! :D :D
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buggreawlthys · 2 months
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'I will not say farewell, my lord,' said Pippin.
- almost word-for-word echo of sam's song in the tower. brb crying over hobbits again.
Now silently the host of Rohan moved forward into the field of Gondor, pouring in slowly but steadily, like the rising tide through breaches in a dike that men have thought secure.
- this is the point where i started vibrating too quickly for the human eye to perceive
And straightway all the horns in the host were lifted up in music, and the blowing of the horns of Rohan in that hour was like a storm upon the plain and a thunder in the mountains.
- there is not enough "fuck yeah" in this world and middle earth combined
And never in after years could he hear a horn blown in the distance without tears starting in his eyes.
- you & me both mate
Denethor started as one waking from a trance, and the flame died in his eyes, and he wept; and he said: 'Do not take my son from me! He calls for me.' ... Denethor followed him, and stood trembling, looking with longing on the face of his son.
- on the one hand, genuinely sympathetic. on the other hand, all this parental affection would've been a bit more useful before you Sent Him To His Death, Arsehole
'Go then and labour in healing! Go forth and fight! Vanity.'
- this isn't even "pot calling the kettle black", it's just straight-up hypocrisy.
Yet one stood there still: Dernhelm the young, faithful beyond fear; and he wept, for he had loved his lord as a father.
- ... so we're still playing this game, jirt? even now? really? *sigh* ok, fine. """dernhelm""" loved """his""" lord, got it
'Do what you will; but I will hinder it, if I may.'
- one of, if not the, all-time "fuck around & find out"s
'And I would send word to Éowyn. She, she would not have me leave her, and now I shall not see her again, dearer than daughter.'
- how many times will the sheer & shining amount of LOVE in this stories rip my heart into confetti???
'Are you going to bury me?' said Merry.
- 🥺🥺🥺
...and out of Far Harad black men like half-trolls with white eyes and red tongues.
- jfc. for every "fair for its day" moment there's one of these, whether it's enemies on the battlefield or allies like ghan-buri-ghan. repugnant actually.
'Thus we meet again, though all the hosts of Mordor lay between us,' said Aragorn. 'Did I not say so at the Hornburg?'
- yeah yeah smartarse, no-one likes an "i told you so"
...red fell the dew in Rammas Echor.
- sad but also metal af
'I have been too busy with this and that to heed all the crying and shouting,' she answered.
- Ioreth my giiiiiiiiiiiirrrrrrrrrl so good to see you sis love your life love your choices
'Not a beggar,' said Aragorn. 'Say a captain of the Rangers, who are unused to cities and houses of stone.'
- *snort*
...said Aragorn. 'One thing also is short, time for speech.'
- TAKE A FUCKEN HINT BABES (not that it does any good. ioreth will not be contained)
'My friend,' said Gandalf, 'you had horses, and deeds of arms, and the free fields; but she, born in the body of a maid, had a spirit and courage at least the match of yours. Yet she was doomed to wait upon an old man...'
- gandalf pointing out the mûmakil in the room: bigotry
'Master Meriadoc,' said Aragorn, 'if you think that I have passed through the mountains and yhe realm of Gondor with fire and sword to bring herbs to a careless soldier who throws away his gear, you are mistaken. ...he will leave you to reflect on the history of tongues. And so now must I.'
- i am howling
For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach. His song in the Tower had been defiance rather than hope; for then he was thinking of himself. Now, for a moment, his own fate, and even his master's, ceased to trouble him. He crawled back into the brambles and laid himself by Frodo's side, and putting away all fear he cast himself into a deep untroubled sleep.
- everyone say thank you to the nice star for letting sam get some decent bloody rest for a change (grumbles about hobbits with no self-care practice)
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bretwalda-lamnguin · 1 year
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I was thinking about the amount of similarities between Éowyn's story in LOTR and the Children of Húrin, relevant quotes under cut:
Aragorn to Éowyn, with Éowyn’s reply:
“Therefore I say to you lady: Stay! For you have no errand to the South.”                                            “Neither have those others who go with thee. They go only because they would not be parted from thee – because they love thee.” Then she turned and vanished into the night.
Nienor to Morwen:
“If the wife of Húrin can go forth against all counsel at the call of kindred,” said Nienor, “then so also can Húrin’s daughter. Mourning you named me, but I will not mourn alone, for father, brother and mother. But of these you only have I known, and above all do I love. And nothing that you fear not do I fear.”
Éowyn:
“Then call me Dernhelm”
Túrin:
For Túrin now gave the name of Dor-Cúarthol to all the land between Teiglin and the west march of Doriath; and claiming lordship of it he named himself anew, Gorthol, the Dread Helm;
Éomer finds Éowyn after she kills the Witch King:
Then suddenly he beheld his sister Éowyn as she lay, and he knew her. He stood a moment as a man who is pierced in the midst of a cry by an arrow through the heart; and then his face went deathly white, and a cold fury rose in him, so that all speech failed him for a while. A fey mood took him.                                “Éowyn, Éowyn!” he cried at last. “Éowyn, how come you here? What madness or devilry is this? Death, death, death! Death take us all!”
Nienor finds Túrin after he kills Glaurung:
Then forgetting her fear she ran on amid the smouldering wrack and so came to Turambar. He was fallen on his side, and his sword lay beneath him, but his face was wan as death in the white light. Then she threw herself down by him weeping, and kissed him; and it seemed to her that he breathed faintly, but she thought it but a trickery of false hope, for he was cold, and did not move, not did he answer her. And as she caressed him she found that his hand was blackened as if it had been scorched, and she washed it with her tears, and tearing a strip from her raiment, she bound it about. But still he did not move at her touch, and she kissed him again, and cried aloud: “Turambar, Turambar, come back! Hear me! Awake! For it is Níniel. The Dragon is dead, dead, and I alone am here by you.” But he answered nothing.
Faramir and Éowyn:
“For you and I have both passed under the same wings of the Shadow, and the same hand drew us back.”                                                                                                               “Alas not for me lord!” she said. “Shadow lies on me still.”
Éowyn, later:
“I stand in Minas Anor, the Tower of the Sun,” she said; “and behold! The Shadow had departed!”
Túrin and Nienor:
when her glance fell on Turambar a light came in her face and she put out a hand towards him, for it seemed to her that she had found at last something that she had sought in the darkness, and she was comforted.
“For I also, Níniel, had my darkness, in which dear things were lost; but now I have overcome it, I deem.”
“For it was dark when you came, Níniel, but ever since it has been light. And it seems to me what I long sought in vain has come to me.”
“There was a shadow,” said Níniel, “for so he told me. But he has escaped from it, even as I.”
Like Nienor she disobeys family, disguises herself as a warrior and goes into peril. Like Túrin she takes a new name, using a war-helm to hid her identity. Like Túrin she defeats a great evil, only to immediately fall unconscious and be found by their sibling who assumes them dead. Like both Túrin and Nienor her courtship with Faramir involves a lot of imagery of escaping darkness/shadow (though thankfully for her it proves a lot more true...)
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morwensteelsheen · 3 years
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farawyn and borodred for the ship ask game thing?
thank you so much!! :)
okay i’ll start with borodred because for some unfathomable reason i actually got there first —
1. What made you ship it?
One of my favourite Types of ships is the Elder Statesmen Of War-type set-ups, where it’s less about people brought together through theatrical romantic gestures and more about the steadiness of people who are going through similar (immensely difficult) circumstances, who know that in their hearts they’re always going to put their duty to that cause first, but still seek out human comfort in other people who will understand what their priorities are and why.
I think there’s also a lot of similarities about the kind of helplessness they both face despite having this tremendous innate strength. Both of them still have to deal with family dynamics that are complex (made more complex by the war) and that can’t be fixed just by their own sheer will power; both of them die these utterly unnecessary deaths (not that death makes a ship but I think in this instance it actually points to the constant tragedy these guys face); and both of them are meant to be the principal figures of their families and people and are ultimately sidelined by the cruel mechanisations of war and the forward march of history or whatever wanky term there is for it — my apologies to ep thompson's ghost, dont haunt me bro.
Plus there’s obviously the interesting thread raised when Faramir starts bitching about Gondor and likens Gondor (and by very explicit extension, Boromir) to Rohan. That always made me go ‘Hmmmmmm, wonder what else Boromir liked about Rohan,’ lmao.
Anyways for me the ship is the equivalent of Star Wars’ Kanan and Hera or (my OTP to end all others) Luke and Wedge, just people getting by on love and duty and without big ol fancy romance.
2. What are your favorite things about the ship?
The fanon, I think, really makes it, as with so many other LOTR ships. battlefield manners, by themightypen is essentially the definitive take for me on them — these two guys who are just so fucking exhausted, man, but still overcome by defensive love for their families, even if their (foster-)siblings are naïve fools. That I just love, love, love. Plus I think they’re unique for their ability to pretty comfortable explore the relationship between Gondor & Rohan in advance of the Ring War without having to stray too far into AU, which I always appreciate.
3. Is there an unpopular opinion you have on your ship?
Not really, tbh, except in that I don’t think Boromir is necessarily as laddy as people like to portray him. I’m happy to play into it in, say, my modern AUs because I think that’s a fun and sweet niche for him, but I am a bit 🤪 about Boromir as this kind of reckless, drunken playboy (not least because I think that’s a much funnier niche for Faramir to fill, at least when he’s younger). Chapter Four of Swaddledog’s Hearts and Minds gets my preferred Boromir characterisation absolutely spot on, I think.
And now, sigh, the ultimate OTP, Farawyn —
1. What made you ship it?
For starters, I think I am obsessed with Éowyn in a way I’ve never quite been obsessed with any other fictional character. I came to reading LOTR at this moment in my life where I was intensely frustrated about everything — trapped inside permanently (helplessly!) because of the pandemic, just starting a new political organisation that I truly believed in but that was still making me feel like shit, facing down an untenable about of work, and, fundamentally, really, really hating being a woman and what that means. And along comes Éowyn, who is bitter, who is cold, who is ANGRY, and who doesn’t perform joy or softness or gentleness just because people expect her to. She’s this seminal Woman Of War in so many ways, I think the kind of person a lot of us wish we could be. She’s got her emotional taps cut off at the source, she holds her head high and faces down unimaginable personal and political terrors, and at the end of it all still has this abiding love for her family that, I would argue, is almost unparalleled by anyone else in the book.
After all that, she gets this incredible moment of emotional catharsis (or what we expect to be emotional catharsis): “no living man am I!” She undertakes THE greatest martial act of the Ring War, and in that moment there’s this unbelievably sophisticated dialogue happening about gender (“Éowyn it was, and Dernhelm also”), and leadership (Merry finding his courage not because of the immediate scenario of the Witch-king, but because he’s spurred into it by Éowyn’s presence), and love and care.
And then we learn that no, actually, this glorious act of violence wasn’t the emotional catharsis we thought it would be. She gets to ride to war, she gets to throw herself headlong at death, and in the end that hopeless act of individualism isn’t really what does it for her. She’s still left desolate and despairing, and actually all of her problems haven’t gone away.
And then we need to rewind a bit, because along comes Faramir, who is gentle, and is kind, and does seem to believe in joy, but not because people expect it — actually it's made abundantly clear nobody expects it — but because it’s something quite innate to how he figures the world. And he’s a huge fucking nerd too. I have a lot of thoughts on Faramir’s flaws and why I find them endearing, which I won’t put here, but almost immediately you get this sense of a guy who’s quite melodramatic, good humoured, and very much not made to live in a time of war.
But he’s also clear-headed about war and what it requires (tactically, if not strategically, though that’s a post for another day), but who is kind of cynical and weary of it in his own unique way. And it’s a unique cynicism given his personal circumstances because he’s the second son of The great family of Gondor, he’s apparently — though with some big ol’ question marks hanging about the extent — very able to command some of the elite units in the realm, and what’s more than that, he’s got all these fantastical powers (the light mind reading to start, to say nothing of this apparently magical ability to command animals too. bruh.). By all accounts he should be this brazen hot mess, but he’s not. He’s desperate to claw his way out of this war-torn cage of expectation his people have for how a man should comport himself in time of war. Is it a little naïve? Sure. A little fussy? Absolutely. But does it point to that same desperation that Éowyn has? Yes! But also the practicality, like, neither of them are really enjoying the circumstances they live under, but good fucking god are they both able to Make It Work.
So finally we get to the Houses of Healing and what is the finest and most aggressively romantic writing of LOTR. Seriously, it’s so fucking much. It’s breathtaking. It reminds me quite viscerally of this fabulous quote from Les Mis:
The power of a glance has been so much abused in love stories, that it has come to be disbelieved in. Few people dare now to say that two beings have fallen in love because they have looked at each other. Yet it is in this way that love begins, and in this way only.
At some point I will devote more time to talking about the two reasons line, and the blissful Queen of Gondor speech, but I think to me that big, important line is: “And then her heart changed, or at least she understood it; and the winter passed, and the sun shone upon her.”
It’s not about Éowyn changing herself entirely (though, I think, it really does bear mentioning that she does change, and that’s every bit as important to understanding that scene as it is romantic), it’s about Éowyn coming to terms with how to live with herself as herself, and how to live in communion with someone else. She can’t just cut people out anymore, and she can’t just treat them as objects of infatuation as she did with Aragorn, she has to reckon with people as they are. And that’s sort of the moment where I knew I was about to plunge fully off the deep end with these two and never know a moments’ peace again, lmao.
2. What are your favorite things about the ship?
Someone on here once called Farawyn a love letter to women and, by god, yes, exactly that. I love the capacity for emotional intimacy, that is beautiful in ways I can’t express. To me, though, my favourite thing is the promise of life they speak of. Not as in oh they shag loads and have babies (though not opposed to that, obviously), but in the sense that unlike Aragorn and Arwen, who are always going to be buried under/burdened with the crushing weight of history and tradition, Éowyn and Faramir are going out yonder those hills and they’re going to do some real cottagecore farming shit. Obviously with all the trappings of rank and nobility and whatnot, but they, unique to anybody else in the books, get to sow this new idea of what life should be. They are, outside of Aragorn, the single most powerful people in Gondor. Éowyn’s got the ear of a king, a steward (which is essentially a prime-ministerial deal here), and functionally her own prince (if the hobbits are to be believed when they refer to it as essentially hers). I suspect that, in life, there were remarkably few arguments she wasn’t winning, and that Ithilien probably trended towards the jumped up noble hippie camp Tolkien so desperately wanted Oxford to be (or, in other words — Cambridge, lol).
3. Is there an unpopular opinion you have on your ship?
Yeah, man, everybody stop treating Faramir like he’s a big fucking crybaby and Éowyn like she’s some kind of shrieking 2010-era tumblr girl.
One of the single most important lines defining Faramir’s character is when Denethor roasts his ass for always trying to appear noble and lordly, if you ignore every other piece of textual evidence we have about him, what part of that line makes you think Faramir’s some simpering daisy? And why would you want to link tremendous emotional intelligence and care with being too limp-wristed to function, lol??? Like I struggle loads with writing Faramir, because I have never once in my life tried to be noble or self-restrained, so find it hard to get into that mindset, but better, I think, to imagine him too closed off than to do this wilting flower song and dance lmao.
And stop making Éowyn out to be this over-emotional angst machine. She’s got problems, yes, and she’s sure as shit got a lot of angst, but at almost every point in the book where we’re overtly dealing with her emotions, she’s sublimating them into something else. One of the most serious times we see her cry is when she’s fighting with Aragorn about riding out, and after that moment she literally tries to kill herself. Those tears aren’t standard, man, that’s a real watershed (lol) moment for her. You have to read around what the text is saying to get a better feel why everybody’s constantly calling her cold and distant.
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undercat-overdog · 6 years
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Eowyn and why she won against the Witch-King
Éowyn's (and Merry's) stand against the Witch-King is superficially similar to some of the stands in the Silmarillion: they all involve people of lesser power choosing to fight a being of greater power, and without hope of success. In the Silmarillion, those characters mostly lose and all of them die*. But the Lord of the Rings is a fundamentally different story than those of the Silmarillion. Éowyn lives, and a great part of the out-of-universe reason is why she chose to fight the Witch-King: not out of despair and for the sake of glory, but for of love.
(Not touching on the (problematic) gender politics here, btw, though there's plenty to say about them.) 
The Silmarillion is a tragedy, and the characters (mostly) operate in the mode of Norse heroism. Part of that mode is the knowledge of inevitable defeat and deciding to fight against it anyways, despite the character knowing they will lose. The Lord of the Rings, though, is more of a comedy/romance in the classic sense: there are struggles, but it ends well, more or less (and with some marriages). This doesn't apply to all characters, of course: Frodo and the Elves are in a tragedy, and Rohirrim culture does operate in the mode of tragic heroism, just as did their 1st Age ancestors of the House of Hador.
(I have no idea if these are the correct terms to use: I'm no literary critic and am going off vague memories of high school English class. I mean basically that the Silmarillion is a type of story that can't end well and that the Lord of the Rings is a story that will end well.
But Éowyn of Rohan chooses to fight the Nazgûl Lord not for glory, despite coming from a culture of pagan heroism, but out of love: and that's why she wins. Tolkien sets up the prophecy, of course (largely out of spite at Macbeth), but that's only the in-universe mechanics of how Éowyn and Merry are able to kill the Witch-King, not the story-logic of why they won.
It's interesting to contrast this fight to some of the other heroic stands of Men and Elves against the greater foes they faced. Take Fingolfin, who, like Éowyn, rode to battle in a fit of despair. They both challenge their foe, who is far mightier and more powerful. And Fingolfin does pretty well for himself! But Éowyn and Merry choose their battle against the Witch-King not out of despair but out of love: Éowyn for Théoden, who was like a father to her, and Merry for Éowyn. One of the many reasons why they succeeded when Fingolfin, and Fingon, and Húrin, and Túrin, and etc, all failed: LotR is a different type of story than the Silmarillion.**
Éowyn's initial motivation is very similar: she rides to battle because she wants to die in glorious combat, as is celebrated in her culture***:
For into Merry's mind flashed the memory of the face that he saw at the riding from Dunharrow: the face of one that goes seeking death, having no hope.
But when she faces the Witch-King, she's not thinking about that, or thinking about the songs that might be sung of her battle (though she will get those songs!, and the Elves will carry them into the West: her deed will be the matter of song till the last days of Arda); she's thinking that she loves Théoden and she won't let the Nazgûl Lord near him:
Yet one stood there still: Dernhelm the young, faithful beyond fear; and he wept, for he had loved his lord as a father.
[…]
[Éowyn said:] 'You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone, if you are not deathless! For living or dark undead, I will smite you, if you touch him.'
This is the turning point in her character arc: it's while fighting the Nazgûl that she first adopts some of Faramir's philosophy (“I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor not the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.”). She still loves the sword and the warrior and the glory, and still wants it that glorious death in battle (and she undoubtedly expects to die here, and quite reasonably). But it's not her personal glory she fights for when she defends Théoden.
She still doesn't reject her culture's mode of heroism till her final talk with Faramir. In the Houses, she's still depressed after all, and if the healers were slipping her some St John's Wort, well, that takes time to take effect. (And she's scared and grieved and in pain from her injury). She still has a death wish, and understandably. Quite rationally, she expects Sauron to win, in which case she'll die anyways, and she wants to chose the manner of her death. Using Finrod's terms, Éowyn has no amdir, or rational hope: and given the situation, no one could have amdir. The only hope that can be had is estel, hope beyond reason. (The whole Athrabeth Faramir ah Éowyn is about this, and it's great, but this is already too long.)
But in her great heroic moment, she fights not for herself, but for him whom she defends, and that's why she can defeat the Witch-King: she's no longer a character in a heroic epic who's doomed to defeat; she chooses to be a character in a (classical) comedy and thus can defeat her foe.
And I think that's why she decides to become a healer. In a time of peace, one way to protect people is to fight disease and illness, and Éowyn chooses to become someone who fights for people.
*Indeed, even Túrin, who does defeat Glaurung, kills himself after in a fit of despair: he's a character who has to die: that's the story he's in. (And the rest of Arda breathes a great sigh of relief.) Heroic suicide is very much a House of Hador thing, and both his sister and his father kill themselves too. (Morwen has a bit of that in her death, but it also could be entirely natural: she's had a physically tough life, including what must have been a bout of near starvation as a kid, and has been traipsing around in the wilderness, probably without much food.
**There are, of course, other types of last stands. None of the ones in the 2nd Age fit either category: Gil-Galad, Celebrimbor, and Elendil aren't seeking heroic glory or in despair (well, maybe Celebrimbor a little, but it hardly seems to be his chief motivation), but they die none the less because the first two are Elves because they're in a different type of story.) And with Oropher, he charges early for political reasons.
***The movie gets this completely wrong, btw. Book Éowyn would not have said “for our friends, Merry” before the battle of the Pelennor: it's too early in her character arc for her to think that. If she ever ends up fighting after the Lord of the Rings, however, then she might say something similar.
(Merry too, like Éowyn, fights out of love, though his reasons for going to battle are different than hers (he's thinking in large part of Pippin when he decides to ride to Gondor). But in the battle with the Nazgûl:
Pity filled his heart and great wonder, and suddenly the slow-kindled courage of his race awoke. He clenched his hand. She should not die, so fair, so desperate! At least she should not die alone, unaided.
And that last line, “she should not die alone,” oh Merry. Éowyn/Dernhelm is his friend: he's not going to leave her.)
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smartgirlsaremean · 6 years
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TMI: Why/when did you decide to reread The Lord of the Rings every year? What is your favorite scene in TLOTR? & Have you seen any film adaptation?
Oh, man, I’ve been doing this since...high school? So...a very long time. Between fifteen and twenty years, at a guess.
As for the why: Tolkein wasn’t perfect. There are definite notes of racism and sexism in LOTR and I acknowledge that. But the story, for me, embodies everything that a fantasy/sci-fi story should be.
The mistake a lot of fantasy/sci-fi writers make is that they make the genre their story. I don’t know how to put this exactly, but if your story absolutely cannot take place in any other setting, then it’s not a good story. While LOTR has all the trappings of fantasy, it’s essentially a story about love, friendship, and courage. It’s about war, too: the horrible price of war, and its far-reaching effects.
It’s hard to pick a favorite scene. I do really love the moment when Dernhelm reveals that he’s really Eowyn because...well, that should be obvious. I feel like that’s a pretty stereotypical favorite moment to have but, oh well.
I’ve seen Peter Jackson’s adaptations (the extended versions too) and they’re really well done. I continue to be a little annoyed over the Tom Bombadil erasure, as well as the fact that the hobbits go back to the Shire and everything is just...fine.
For me, Saruman and Grima’s infiltration of the Shire is the whole fucking point of the series. In the movies it was like, yes, there was this terrible war, but it was out there somewhere and the Shire wasn’t part of it. We went to war to save the Shire and we succeeded. YAY! BEER AND MARRIAGE FOR EVERYONE!
Except no, that’s not how war works. Nothing is safe, no one is immune, and veterans of war don’t get to come home and just...forget it ever happened. When war happens, everything is changed, and rarely for the better. And while I understand they probably felt the need to give the movie a “happy ending,” there’s a part of me that feels the “happy ending’ misses the point entirely. Evil isn’t just big faceless villains in far-off countries. Evil is also the petty bully who just wants to make people’s lives miserable and exert power over the powerless, and I feel like that message was largely lost in the adaptation.
So. That’s my LOTR screed for the day.
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littleladybaker · 6 years
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Carol and Mallorie watch LOTR Return of the King.
Finally getting around to typing up part three of this little series. This one is gonna be the longest yet because we watched the Extended Edition. Spoilers galore. Enjoy!
Explaining Smeagol and Deagol to Carol and Mal as the original Merry and Pippin.
Mallorie making dick jokes about Deagol’s fishing pole...while I was eating a redvine...
Carol asked me to to pause the movie so she could answer the phone (they still have a house phone) and I paused just a second Gollum was biting into the catfish. We all started screaming and Carol’s brother, my ex, came out and told us to stop being so loud. We told him to put his headphones on if we bothered him so much. I explained to the girls that he slept threw ALL THREE MOVIES each time I tried to show the movie to him.
“Please tell me Frodo is ok after all this.”(Mallorie)
“As ok as you can be with PTSD.” (Carol)
Carol making Frodo/Sam sex jokes.
“Sam and Rosie had eight kids. The first was born in less than a year.”(Me)
“They had a lot of fun.” (Carol)
Me infodumping about Christopher Lee.
Carol and Mallorie making dick jokes about Saruman.
Me:Christopher Lee is problebly yelling at us from Heaven. You know that right?
C and M: ...
Mallorie: Hi, Chris!
Carol: You know we’re riiiiiiiiightttttttt!
Ganalf is Pippin’s grandpa now.
Treebeard apparently lost his wife in the mall. 😹
DrunkGimli was apparently Mallorie after one margarita on her 21st.
Carol implying that Gollum did dirty things with the ring.
Smeagol is like Jeremy's sister in Phinius and Ferb.
I am the Pippin of our “Family”.
“Aragorn! Come get your grandson!” (Mallorie)
“Merry loves his little cousin.”(Mallorie)
“Well someone's gotta look after him. ‘Cause his parents clearly ain't!”(Me)
The girls gushing over Eldarion and Arwen and Aragorn!
“How do you know so much?”(Mallorie)
“It’s my job. I make dolls and I know things.”(Me)
Dickhead Denethor.
Aragorn “Hope” jokes.
“Hope will come.”(Gandalf)
“And then he has a son!” (Mallorie)
Two words: Fro-Bro, Fro Fro Brodo.
Mallorie infodumping Game of Thrones in me.
Us arguing over who gets custody of Faramir when we take him from Denethor.
Me gushing over Lawrence Makoare and his dedication to makeup acting. Seriously this guy is amazing.
Gushing over how cute Merry is.
More talk about the horses. Ian McKellen’s horse was a DIVA.
Us calling David Wenham (I think I misspelled that😕) Daisy.
More gushing over Lawrence.
Boromir is Faramir’s Ada and Denethor has lost custody.
Boromir is ashamed of his father.
Me making Mallorie cry over my HC that Boromir leads Pippin to the afterlife when he dies.
EDGE OF NIGHT!!!!!!! The girls were impressed.
We all may or may not all have crushes of Billy Boyd.
Me explaining Dernhelm.
Eomir’s speech to Eowen sounds an awful lot like Sharpe’s “Can you stand” Speach.
Andril is amazing.
Explaining elf marriage and how the elf follows their spouse into the afterlife.
Telling them about Elboron.
The return of Puppy Horse!
Eowen is Merry’s mom friend.
Mallorie still loves Gimli.
Mallorie is more scared of Bilbo than of the Army of the Dead
Gothmog looks like the CEO of Abacrombi and Finch.
Talk of how Young Ian McKellen would have ruined our lives.
(Carol brought up a picture of Young Ian with young Tim Curry and...I have no idea how to comprehend what I've seen.)
Mallorie’' she reason for why Frodo can't  turn back at Shelob’s: Sam’s down there and it would just be awkward because he just broke up with his boyfriend.
TEN MINUTES of Carol and Mallorie taking about Turtle Sex because they began to wonder where baby Orc come from...I'm scared for life.
Carol is SUPER ARACNIPHOBIC. I'm glad I asked before Shelob showed her face. She had to cling to my Haldir doll...I'm making her a spider repellent Sam doll...
Me:(to the tune of If You're Happy and You Know It) If you wanna adopt a hobbit and ya know it raise your hand!
Them:
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Everyone hates Denethor
Any time Witch King, Gothmog, or Lurtz does something Mallorie shouts, Dang it Lawerence, and I'm so proud of myself for corrupting her into a Lawerence fan.
Merry is Eowen’s emotional  support Hobbit! 😹
I'm making all my friends matching Hobbit dolls, because there are five of us, Mallorie gets Bilbo.
Oliffond poop problebly kills people.💩
I have stopped correcting Mallorie when she's calls the Oliffonds Eliphants.
YOU CAN SEE THE TEAR TRACKS ON PIPPIN’S DIRTY FACE!!!!
Rohirm are REALLY uncreative whith naming their children...
Peter Jackson and his anatomically correct CGI animals.
Our new band, Panic in my Heart. With our new hit single, Don't kill my fave.
The girls thinking Merry is dead. (I didn't tell the man otherwise. Mwahahaha 😁)
Aragorn put Eowen in the Daughter Zone, not the friend zone.
🎤If you wanna be my lover,🎤
Sorry, i already adopted you. Also, I'm married to someon else.
The girls trying to figure where the ring is hidden, thinking it is on Frodo somewhere. ( Carol asked if it was up Fodo’s ass 😹)
Ring dick jokes. Curtesy of Carol
“Gondor has a king, Gondor needs its king!”
FARAMIR AND EOWIN!!!
I quoted Aragorn’s Men of the West Speach and I have no shame!
I continue to quote Unusual Suspect threw the whole movie.
“There's no eagles, Lil! You said the Eagles would be there!”(Carol)
Eagles arrive.
“Oh”( Carol)
Us all singing Let it Go when Frodo is about to drop the ring.
More dirty ring jokes.
At this point, Mallorie and Carol just wanted the movie to end.
When are all I need agreement that Pippin needs a bath, a cuddle, and a nap.
ARAGORN’S CORINATION SONG!!!!!!!!! VIGGO CAN STILL SING, IT TOO!!!!!!!!
Elrond is SO not read yet for his baby girl to get married.
We all just wanted the movie to be fucking over!
Galadriel scared Mallorie, apparently.
Carol crying when she realizes Frodo doesn't live Happily ever after with Sam and Rosie in Bag End.
“OH MY GOSH!!! THIS IS THE NEVER ENDING STORY!!!!!!”(All of us!!!!)
“This was fun but we are never doing it again.”(Me)
“YUP!!!!!”(C+M)
And it's finnaly over! Carol an drew Mallorie have finnaly seen all three LOTR movies! Up next, either showing the movie to Caitlin, extended edition marathon, or Hobbit movies. We'll see. TTFN, ta ta for now.
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scriptstructure · 7 years
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You've probably answered this before, but it's been really bothering me. What if you reading a story and then you are inspired to write something similar-ish?
In fact, I haven’t – this is the first time I’ve gotten this question, and I think it’s a good one. A lot of people get very caught up in worrying about if their idea might have been ‘done before’, if it could have been done better, if someone else might have written it differently, etc. All these are very natural concerns, I think, and so is yours.
You read a story, or watch a movie, and there’s something in the premise or the characters, or the plot that takes root in your imagination and starts sprouting off new ideas. On the one hand, it feels great to have a flourish of creation in the brain pan, on the other hand what if it’s less a flourishing, and more a regurgitation?
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No one wants to be Mr. Skinner.
But really, we can quote the literal, actual Bible on this one: The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun*. One of the most valuable lessons you can take on as a writer, there are no new ideas!
At their hearts, stories are often very simple, and take a few very basic shapes. The journey, the coming-of-age, the cycle of renewal …
But what does that mean when you’ve just come out of the cinema with a story idea burning in your mind and the queasy certainty that it’s going to be just too similar to the blockbuster you’ve just devoured?
The key is that everyone thinks a little differently, conceptualises differently, the things that you’ve picked out of that blockbuster are going to carry a slightly different weight and nuance of meaning to you, than they did to the other people in the cinema. If you focus on nurturing those personal, interpretive elements of the concept, then the thing that sprouts up is going to be as new as any idea can be.
There are two big components to approaching this kind of situation that I think help with sorting out what makes your story something other than fan fiction of the thing that inspired you.
First off, give yourself space to think. Take a week or two to let the idea roll around in your head before you dedicate yourself to writing it. You might find that it evaporates, that it really was just your brain wanting to replicate the really good bits of the thing that inspired you, without much working beyond that. That’s okay. But sometimes a bit of space will let the parts of this idea that are yours sink in and solidify.
Then you move on to step two, figuring out what in this idea is important to you. Think about the key elements that make you want to write this thing, and jot them down, see how far you can work along the lines of your own interests, your favourite details, the emotions and images that you want to capture in this piece.
When you’ve worked on it long enough and stuck to the things that are deeply important and pleasing to you, you’re going to come out with something that probably bears little more than a passing resemblance to the thing that inspired you. Maybe they would sit happily together in the same genre, or maybe there are some tonal qualities that both share, but in bringing your personal preferences and thought processes to the piece, you turn it into your own.
It’s a little bit funny to get this question, actually. The manuscript I’m currently working on (and nearly finished the first draft!) was spawned when I had read through a publisher’s entire catalogue of a certain type of story. I got to the end of the list and thought ‘but I want to read more of those!’ and after a couple of days moping, I realised that the only way I was guaranteed to get more would be to write it.
I thought about what my favourite things in those stories were, and about the stuff that I didn’t like so much, and I imagined what the ideal story I would have wanted to read would have been like, and I sat down and wrote it. The story I’ve written definitely has a lot in common with those books I was reading, but at the same time, it’s a product of my own imagination and my own interests.
Essentially, I think, in this kind of situation it boils down to working hard to cultivate the story that you want to tell, and running with the elements that you personally find interesting and appealing. 
Don’t fall into the trap of trying to replicate the thing that inspired you, but let it be just that: inspiration.
Think about the difference between Macbeth and The Lord of the Rings, the scope of the stories, the genre, the format, the pacing. But a significant part of The Lord of the Rings  was inspired by Macbeth. Anecdotally, after seeing a performance of the play, Tolkien was annoyed at the way that Shakespeare handled the resolution of the prophesy about Macbeth.
Compare:
MACBETH     Thou losest labor.As easy mayst thou the intrenchant airWith thy keen sword impress as make me bleed.Let fall thy blade on vulnerable crests;I bear a charmèd life, which must not yieldTo one of woman born.
MACDUFF     Despair thy charm,And let the angel whom thou still hast servedTell thee, Macduff was from his mother’s wombUntimely ripped.
Macbeth, Act 5, Scene 8
and 
A cold voice answered: ‘Come not between the Nazgûl and his prey! Or he will notslay thee in thy turn. He will bear thee away to the houses of lamentation, beyond alldarkness, where thy flesh shall be devoured, and thy shrivelled mind be left naked tothe Lidless Eye.' 
 A sword rang as it was drawn. 'Do what you will; but I will hinder it, if I may.' 
'Hinder me? Thou fool. No living man may hinder me!' 
Then Merry heard of all sounds in that hour the strangest. It seemed that Dernhelmlaughed, and the clear voice was like the ring of steel. 
'But no living man am I! Youlook upon a woman. Éowyn I am, Éomund’s daughter. You stand between me andmy lord and kin. Begone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I willsmite you, if you touch him.’
The Return of the King: The Battle of the Pelennor Fields 
The prophesy about the defeat of the Witch-King of Angmar, and the prophesy about Macbeth’s downfall are extremely similar in terms of phrasing, intent, and dramatic weight, but the execution is vastly different. It’s inspiration, not imitation, and if you have confidence in your ability to develop a story that reflects your own preferences and interests, then it will be able to stand beside its inspiration on equal footing.
I hope that helps!
*Ecclesiastes 1:9
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garden-ghoul · 7 years
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return of the blog, part.... uhhhh
“that’s right, I can’t even reliably count to three. or maybe I can and it’s four I can’t reliably count to?”
That aside, something horrible is about to happen.
THE SIEGE OF GONDOR
Gandalf wakes up Pippin at “the second hour,” which is either 2am or like 9am, depending on where they’re counting from. Pippin stares at his bread butter & milk breakfast miserably and says, “Why did you bring me here?” 
“You know quite well,” said Gandalf. “To keep you out of mischief; and if you do not like being here, you can remember that you brought it on yourself.”
Dude. He’s a teen and he was cursed. Give him a break.
He has to go see Denethor, who treats him rather rudely and then says he’ll be the lord’s esquire for today. Does he know any songs? Well, um, not many that are fitting here... Pippin does not want to sing comic songs or lewd songs to the Steward of Gondor. I just can’t get over this teen thing, he is like a college freshman who got out for the summer after a socially productive semester and now he works for the president. It’s fucking ridiculous. Well, he goes and gets some fancy livery so he’ll look regal enough for Denethor, and it only makes him gloomier. I love all the descriptions of Merry and Pippin being gloomy about being treated like ornaments.
Near sunset he’s finally released from his service (both boring and arduous, though I’ll wager he’s been doing a lot of good eavesdropping) and goes to hang out with Beregond and bemoan the fact that Faramir isn’t here. Oh! How convenient! There’s Faramir’s company right there (what’s left of it), being attacked by Nazgul! LUCKILY Gandalf, who vanished a while ago, seems to have foreseen this; he chases them away with light magic. Pippin runs to the gates to see Faramir coming home, and immediately gets a crush on him. He’s so noble! So tired! Yet so approachable!
Denethor does not really think so. He finds the smallest crack in Faramir’s demeanor as he’s making his report, and verbally eviscerates him in front of the guests. Y’know, for letting the Ring go into Mordor, and also for being alive even though Denethor is the one who told Boromir to go questing. Denethor and Gandalf yell at each other for a while, it’s rather frightening. As Pippin and Gandalf are leaving (Faramir has gone off to get some sleep, thank goodness!) Gandalf says he is filled with foreboding that Sam and Frodo are going via Cirith Ungol. How would YOU have gone, Gandalf? Through the front door? Secret tunnel?
The next morning everyone is gloomy again. They WERE excited about Faramir coming back--the text sort of implies that everyone in the city is a little in love with him--
But now Faramir was gone again. ‘They give him no rest,’ some murmured. ‘The Lord drives his son too hard, and now he must do the duty of two, for himself and for the one that will not return.’ And ever men looked northward, asking: ‘Where are the Riders of Rohan?’
Restless, restless, restless. Electric air. That Good Stuff. Faramir has been sent to Osgiliath to strengthen the garrison:
‘Then farewell!’ said Faramir. ‘But if I should return, think better of me!’
‘That depends on the manner of your return,’ said Denethor.
Ouch. Why do I get the feeling that Denethor will only think better of him if he returns in a coffin? As Faramir leaves, Gandalf tells him that his father loves him. Umm okay but how does that mitigate his awful treatment of Faramir. Doesn’t that make it worse? Right now I’m thinking about how Faramir is probably going to have to fight the Witch King since he’s leading the attack on Osgiliath, and thinking about how Eowyn is the one who kills him, and just being really excited for them to meet. Weary guy who hates to fight but must; frustrated enby who is chomping at the bit to murder some dudes. Honestly doesn’t that describe ALL the best Tolkien ships. Sometimes he does ladies right and it’s so #aesthetic. Wait I think the aesthetic I’m describing is just classic Jewish gender roles. Gentle studious men and women alight with the fire of direct action. I’m gay for both of these genders.
Anyway the next day the Black Host or whatever comes through the wall of the Pelennor Fields, despite the fact that Faramir is still doing his best to hold the rearguard off in Osgiliath. Including, yep, the Witch King. Actually they never refer to him as the Witch King in these books and I’m not sure where I heard it, but it’s an amazing title. Anyway mounted sorties start going out into Pelennor, with Gandalf at Prince Whoever of Amroth at their head. Denethor at least doesn’t let them overextend themselves; he calls them in very promptly so they won’t get trapped or too tired. I get the impression that for quick strikes they have the advantage because all of Sauron’s people are on foot. Oh, except a full third of them died anyway, because Sauron’s forces MASSIVELY outnumber them. Faramir has come back dead or wounded, and EVERYONE is crying. They bring him back to Denethor, who goes up into his tower and people see a strange flashing light and he comes down even more dead-looking than his dead son. I am beginning to suspect that the reason the text has alluded so many times to how far-sighted and well-informed Denethor is, is that he has a palantir. And this is some kind of secret, maybe?
The very last companies who can make it come back in through the gates, and they report that there is no way the Rohirrim can possibly make it in to help them now. The enemy is throwing fire over the walls. They’re throwing severed heads over the walls. Nazgul are circling. Denethor is weeping by Faramir’s body. Gandalf and the prince of Amroth have taken command of the city. There’s an aside here with Gondorians whispering about how elvish the people of Dol Amroth are--the people of Nimrodel. I’m glad there’s at least one version of the story where they found each other again and settled down, even if “the coast” probably wasn’t the land Nimrodel dreamed of that had never heard of war.
Hey, let’s check in on Denethor! Oh, uh, the palantir broke his will and he’s planning to set himself on fire in his despair. That’s cool I guess. Pippin goes to fetch Gandalf, as if he couldn’t possibly have anything more important to do than save one rude old man’s life. Or no, Pippin suspects he is going to kill Faramir as well. He passes Beregond and tells him to stop anything awful from happening.
OMG SORRY I FORGOT EVERYTHING I WAS SUPPOSED TO BE PAYING ATTENTION TO BECAUSE WE HAVE FINALLY CONFIRMED THAT THE BATTERING RAM GROND IS INDEED NAMED FOR MORGOTH’S HAMMER. I CAN STOP READING NOW THIS IS ALL I WANTED TO KNOW.
No no jk I will keep reading. I’m extremely pleased though. I have “Grond! Grond! Grond!” echoing in my head nonstop some days. Um anyway the Witch King is there, casting an evil spell to help Grond along, and on the third go it BURSTS the gates open!
‘You cannot enter here,’ said Gandalf, and the huge shadow halted. ‘Go back to the abyss prepared for you! Go back! Fall into the nothingness that awaits you and your Master. Go!’
The Black Rider flung back his hood, and behold! he had a kingly crown; and yet upon no head visible was it set.
Fuck yes.
Somewhere in the city, a cock crows, because having half of Gondor on fire in no way disrupted this chicken’s daily routine. Dawn. And with it, the horns of Rohan.
THE RIDE OF THE ROHIRRIM
The beginning of this chapter has a lot of fun sense description, since Merry is lying awake in complete darkness listening to the distant sounds of the Enemy’s hosts. Smelling the horses. All that. He thinks about how weird it is that everyone is just ignoring him because they know he’s not supposed to be here; Dernhelm seems to have some kind of “understanding” with Elfhelm, the marshal of their company. Sorry. Elfhelm? Elf? Helm? Is that a guy’s actual name? Elfhelm trips over Merry in the dark, and Merry asks What Is Up. As it turns out what is up is Woses, and what will soon be up is all the Rohirrim. I was gonna explain what Woses are but I think it’s way funnier if I don’t.
A Wose has come to offer help to Theoden, since he hates orcs as much as the next guy. Woses, he says, have “long ears and long eyes,” which isn’t especially relevant as far as I can tell but it’s delightful. The leader of the Woses, Ghan-buri-Ghan, knows a secret road! All he wants as a reward is... for the Rohirrim to stop hunting his people like beasts. What the fuck. I can’t believe Ghan-buri-Ghan actually prefers the Rohirrim to orcs. They go through the forest, and it takes all day, but the next morning before dawn they are ready to go do murders. Merry is upset again because he’s actually zero good at fighting and is just going to get himself and others killed.
The king sat upon Snowmane, motionless, gazing upon the agony of Minas Tirith, as if stricken suddenly by anguish, or by dread. He seemed to shrink down, cowed by age. Merry himself felt as if a great weight of horror and doubt had settled on him. His heart beat slowly. Time seemed poised in uncertainty. They were too late! Too late was worse than never! Perhaps Théoden would quail, bow his old head, turn, slink away to hide in the hills.
Then suddenly Merry felt it at last, beyond doubt: a change. Wind was in his face! Light was glimmering. Far, far away, in the South the clouds could be dimly seen as remote grey shapes, rolling up, drifting: morning lay beyond them.
Nice nice nice nice nice that’s some top notch metaphor. Tolkien is sooo good at environmental metaphors and foreshadowing. IDK there’s just something about the way the whole world seems to get in on the narrative, it’s really good. Spear shall be shaken, shield be splintered; a sword-day, a red day, ere the sun rises! Theoden grabs a horn from someone and blows on it so hard it EXPLODES. AND THEY’RE OFF!! Join us next time for
THE BATTLE OF THE PELENNOR FIELDS
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