Reminder that Stirringjuice/Ven themself has said that TMC is not fetish content. Kister’s works are NOT an extension of what was described in the allegations document. If you don’t want to consume TMC content anymore, fine (best you don’t— not in a way that gives Kister money anyway), but don’t spread misinformation.
EDIT: after rereading Ven’s callout document and finally being able to access ALL the screenshots he attached, I have decided that I will no longer support him. I will not go back to supporting Alex Kister yet, but I cannot support a blatant ableist transphobe either.
link to annotation doc: (not mine) https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vReErDatnpQ_h3W-WlqrmzmPN26-UyDwLVwBKmHV09WhVZtdZQM44HRxvoV0ZTz8Ho-NaBVKYxjNuha/pub
Things I will be addressing:
Why I do not support Ven (separate from other victims)
Stuff that Alex Kister DID do wrong, even if the allegations were exaggerated/faked/done out of malice
The allegations and victims themselves.
WHY I DONT SUPPORT VEN
First of all, this ⬇️ (scroll down its below the blue highlighted ss. Formatting issues sorry.). This is a ss of Ven’s (now deleted, now archived post) response to how many people are calling him transphobic for his transmisogynistic comments in his document, and how he had basically outed Alex. Instead of saying something like “it wasn’t transphobic — I had to out Alex— it was necessary for the victims/proof/whatever”, Ven just says that if Alex didn’t want to be outed or subjected to transphobia, he shouldn’t have been a “groomer” (Ven later says that he had misused the word “groomer”. Everyone that Alex had interacted with in a sexual or romantic manner had been an adult, and had fully explicitly VERBALLY consented.)
However. Even if your opponent is a bad person, you do NOT have the right to be transphobic. EVER. criticize them on whatever they’ve done wrong, hold them accountable in a balanced and civilized manner— etc. Being protected from bigotry/ not getting misgendered, privacy, legal counsel— these are all examples of RIGHTS.
When you start denying something based on whether someone deserves it or not, that “something” has become a privilege.
By stating that his transphobia was excused because Alex is a supposedly bad person, Ven has stated that not being subjected to transphobia is a privilege.
here’s the link: (takes forever to load the keep reading portion but it works for me) https://web.archive.org/web/20240317125855/https://www.tumblr.com/stirringjuicee/745117180204548096/alex-kister-and-actively-using-being-trans-to-lure
Screenshot of the post below, along with something from the callout doc (annotated by a tumblr user. The non-highlighted color text is the annotated bit.
—— ss from ven response (click. It IS An image it just looks like text)
—-
now onto some more details.
Ven, or StirringJuice, made the first allegations document against Alex Kister. He had stated himself that he does not consider himself a victim, just a friend of the victims who wanted to spread the word.
Ven starts the document off by describing his past relationship with Alex Kister. He also includes screenshots of text messages from Alex— which often contradict or have no relation with what he’s saying. This is why it’s important to look at the screenshots, guys!
Most of the toxicity in Ven’s relationship with Alex stemmed from Ven’s refusal to honestly his boundaries or feelings. He told Alex that he was comfortable with the sexual comments, he told Alex that he was comfortable being just Friends with Benefits, and he told Alex that they were welcome to vent to him any time <- all of this is corroborated by the text screenshots that Ven himself posted.
In Ven’s text messages, we can see him suggesting that Alex gets a therapist. Great! Nothing wrong there. And then you actually look at the ss:
(Ven is the blue. These ss are linked in the callout document.)
First of all. You cannot force ANYONE to get mental help, regardless of whether you think it’s for their own well-being. If their behavior is harming you, leave. But even the worst people on earth deserve autonomy for these kinds of things. Ven literally states that he had FORCED Alex to get a therapist, and you can see him admit it in the messages above as well.
after these ss links (labeled part 9 in the doc), Ven hits us with this absolute banger:
“[Alex] then decided to go off his meds.”
Someone had already said this, but: YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO SAY THAT TO OR ABOUT A MENTALLY ILL PERSON. EVER. REGARDLESS OF WHO YOU ARE, OR WHO THEY ARE. it’s an insult to every mental health community.
^ also, Alex gives a pretty good reason for going off his medication. Not that they needed to.
^highlighted text is Ven’s callout post. Purple text is a fellow tumblr user’s annotations. They have a whole post with these annotations. I’ll credit them when I’m done writing out my post. [clarification: the annotator uses “she/her” pronouns for Alex, Ven uses he/him. I use they/them because Alex was never publicly OUT as she/her before they were outed, so I’m not sure what to do]
Also: please go on the callout doc and see the “pt. 11” screenshots yourself. There’s a lot of them and I don’t want to add them here, but please go see them.
^Ven hears that Alex wants to start a new chapter with them (yknow, like redeem the toxic relationship they’ve had) and immediately assumes it’s in the romantic sense.
^Alex admits that they are not ready for a committed relationship, a good first step for smoothing over any toxicity.
^nothing else to add. Annotator did great.
^ text ss as listed under the “pt. 14” link
These are 3 out of 10 ss under the Pt. 15 link. Look at the text indicated to with the red arrow (drawn by me). Ven literally tells Alex that they “don’t understand anything ever.” They also tell Alex in a later ss (plz find it yourselves because I’m not posting all 10 photos) that they “don’t understand [their] own emotions.”
Maybe Alex was making an unhealthy decision by continuing to reach out to someone they clearly had an unhealthy relationship with. But these responses are borderline abusive, especially when aimed at someone who suffers from paranoia.
A huge chunk of the entire callout doc is Ven venting about his relationship with Alex. This relationship is not abusive, it is toxic on both sides. The fact that Ven put this much focus on these barely relevant details— even when the topic was the victims, not Ven himself— suggests that he did this out of petty vindictiveness. If the allegations are true, the victims deserved a BETTER PERSON and a BETTER FRIEND to share their story. Not someone who did it purely because it was en excuse to get revenge. If it wasn’t revenge, why add all these details??
(funny thing— the whole doc. Would be more believable if Ven hadn’t added all this stuff. He destroyed his credibility before even getting to the allegations).
the one below has more transphobia and general assholery than ableism.
^apparently once you are out of the closet, you are not allowed to go back or feel ashamed. Else you are lying and manipulative. Thanks, Ven.
I am done posting screenshots from the annotation document. Please, PLEASE read it in full. I will tag it in the comments. There are so so so many good points.
STUFF THAT ALEX HAS DEFINITELY DONE WRONG, REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THE ALLEGATIONS ARE TRUE OR FALSE:
(Orange text is annotator, black is original doc).
Venting to/ Relying on a minor fan for mental health support (I think it was Mitchie). That’s not good.
making allusions to suicide during their relationship with Ven. Joke or not, that’s unhealthy.
ALLEGATIONS/VICTIMS:
wont say much here because I’m getting tired.
some people on Reddit have been pointing out that some discord ss (not the ones I’ve shown you, those were imessage ss) look faked because there is use of military time, which is not an option on discord apparently. Other screenshots seem to use different fonts as well, further indicating forged evidence. I have fact-checked none of this and can’t verify it (not that you should be relying on my word alone, anyway).
I do not support Mitchie, since they’ve been telling people to self-harm and/or commit suicide when they point out flaws in the callout doc. I don’t care what you’ve been through. There is no excuse for that.
As for the other victims.. I find their statements fishy. However, I will not disbelieve them until more has been cleared up.
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Was meant to be self-sacrifice and somehow turned into Shenanigans instead: welcome the yj core 4 being three badly-raised teenage guys and one "normal" teenage girl who Does Not Deserve This Level Of Mortification (also, there's a vampire)
----
"Okay," Tim says, and then again, a bit more breathlessly, "okay. We can do this. It's fine. It's fine? No-one's injured, and without blood their tracking won't be-"
"Shit," Cassie says. Tim's attention immediately snaps to her, which is not what she wants but also entirely what she expects.
"What?" he asks. "Did you get hurt? Are you okay?"
"No," she says, humiliation making her cheeks burn, and Tim gets even more concerned.
"No what?" he asks, and then, too fast for her to get an answer in, "No to you being okay? No to having an injury? Cassie-"
Oh god this is the worst, she thinks, because this is the punchline to the world's most misogynistic joke - an alien, a too-old baby, a socially awkward teen therapist, and a girl with- "I'm on my period," she says, and hates how squirmy embarrassment feels in her stomach.
Kon stares at her, looking vaguely panicked. Bart at least just cocks his head, but Tim can't even look at her, and he's turning pink under his mask-
"How- much blood?" Tim asks, sounding as awkwardly as she feels, and Cassie hisses.
"I don't measure it! I dunno, Robin, enough for a freaking blood-sniffing vampire to track-"
"Just turn it off?" Bart says, and Cassie makes an offended noise in the back of her throat.
"Wait, she can do that?" Kon asks, now looking even more panicked.
"No!" Tim and Cassie say in unison.
"I wish," Cassie adds, and this time it's Bart's turn to reel back.
"So you just bleed?" he asks, aghast.
Cassie's tone probably matches his when she asks, "Imp, has no-one had the talk with you yet? Is there no sex ed in the future?"
"Shots not," Tim says, and Cassie immediately repeats the phrase, desperately.
"What!" Kon says, "No, no, no, no, I am not- I can't! You want me to teach him? I don't even know if human sex ed is different from Kryptonian sex ed!"
"Not like Superman gave you many pointers on either," Tim mutters, because he takes every chance he can get to snub Clark, and Cassie steps on his foot.
"Nobody has to tell me about anything," Bart says crossly, "I'll just go to the library and teach myself-"
"Vampire!" says Tim, grabbing Bart's bicep before he can flash from the room. "Oh my god do not go out there right now."
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Regarding Batman and Responsibility: A Rant
So, whenever there is talk about the age old question of "Should Batman kill Joker?" there is always, and I mean always someone who says something along the lines of: "But it's not Batman's responsibility to kill Joker so it's wrong to put the burden onto him." and on the surface this seems like a reasonable argument. After all, there is a police department in gotham, there is a government, so shouldn't we hold them accountable as well? Well, not exactly.
(Warning: I probably mispelled responsibility and responsible a LOT in this post, please don't begrudge me for it.)
Of course, those institutions ARE responsible for the Joker to some degree but the real question, to me, is: why is Batman considered as "NOT responsible" when he very much is.
People who make this argument usually say: "Well Batman is a volunteer, a vigilante! This is practically none of his bussiness." And true, Bruce isn't required to be a vigilante, he does it entirely out of his own volition. But is that not the whole reason why he IS responsible? I mean, Bruce is the one who CHOSE to take up that responsibilty, he is the one who CHOSES to shoulder that burden. In that sense he isn't that different from a government official/cop/etc. those people do it of their on will too don't they? Bruce, day after day, year after year, choses to fight for Gotham, to protect it and its people; he takes those responsibilities onto himself and yet... stopping Joker somehow, isn't one of them?
In my opinion, it is hypocritical. Bruce is the one who says things like "Gotham is MY city" or "I don't allow metas in Gotham, you need MY permission." or "You can't operate as a vigilante in Gotham without my say-so."(Stephanie Brown, anyone?) he routinely describes his vigilantism as a "war on crime"(which, yikes) and calls it a "crusade" and says it is his "mission" no? He chooses to do these things all on his own, no one forces him to. At a certain point, it's a matter of integrity. He can't pick and choose what exactly constitutes to protecting Gotham and what doesn't. He can't decide that beating up muggers in the streets is extremely important and is his job while improving Arkham isn't. He can't decide that, despite putting Joker in Arkham over and over again knowing he's going to escape, he isn't at least partly responsible for Joker's future victims. He can't keep stopping people from killing Joker(Under the Red Hood, hello!), saving Joker from the death row, putting Joker into a Lazarus Pit, or saving him from natural disasters(because you KNOW he would) and then claim "Oh, but killing Joker isn't my responsibility." He can't willingly claim responsibility for Gotham in every other scenario, EXCEPT for that. That's just having your cake and trying to eat it too. Unless he decided that by saving Joker he is not actually harming Gotham, by allowing Joker to live he is actively NEGLECTING his mission, his duty. And anyway, I thought the whole point of superhero comics was that people with power to better things shoud use those powers to do exactly that. Batman DOES have the power to "better" Gotham, he just isn't using it.
"Killing Joker isn't Batman's responsibility." No, it is. Because protecting Gotham and its people IS his responsibility, as he took it onto himself. If he didn't want to deal with the consequences of such a thing then he shouldn't have become a vigilante in the first place.
Mind you, this doesn't mean he's the ONLY one responsible, far from it, just that he is.
(I genuinely don't remember whether I made a post on this before but I have ranted about this to myself outloud when alone multiple times and if I have to think about this so do you)
[And YES we all know the real reason is because Joker is DC's cashcow, that is not the point of this post...]
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