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nightwhispcrs · 3 months

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— valentines ball mini event starter call under the cut ; dont be shy !! 3 starter cap per mun , pls . if you want to plot anything for our event thread / if any of these blurbs give you an idea , dm me after requesting the starter ! otherwise i will be writing them random .

**if we have blind dates , i will dm you about plotting and which of us writes the starter , so please don't request those here .

adam newman , 33 yrs — ( 3/3 ) dru , maggie , olenna

adam will be his usual flirty , gossip-y self . coming from the soap opera world , the relationship drama the revolves around valentines day is his wheelhouse , so feel free to unload your tea on his ear at the bar and let him help you form revenge plans . ( date : olenna tyrell )

arnold novak , 28 yrs — ( 2/2 ) jester , shen wei

being on a blind date with a stranger is one of arnold's worst social nightmares , so please distract him with anything you can . a dance , illicit substances , some gossip , or whatever else your heart desires . he will however be very engrossed and excited to view the exhibits and will probably be using them to avoid social interaction . it's canon that he's a BIG fan of butterflies , so catch them there . ( blind date : shen wei )

charlie dalton , 26 yrs — ( 1/3 ) neil

they're having the time of their life . still in denial about the feelings he has for his best friend , so charlie will be running around being a menace . probably trying to break into anything and everything that they shouldn't , and probably carrying around a couple flasks of mysterious liquor . ( "platonic" date : neil perry )

craig manning , 23 yrs — ( 0/2 )

on a date with his boyfriend , but craig can either get involved in some chaos or lend an ear to someone who needs it . he's sober , so can take care of anyone who's been a bit .. less than sober . you may find him around the insect exhibits ? fell like he'd think bugs are interesting . ( date : j.t. yorke )

eli joseph stock , 22 yrs — ( 1/2 ) auden

on a date with their partner , but will be quietly strolling through the exhibits as well . probably spending most of their time in ocean hall . they're from a beach town , so feels like home . a bit skeptical of valentines and pda in general , but will withhold judgement to themself . ( date : auden west )

fred flintstone , 40 yrs — ( 1/2 ) meredith

he's pining for nigel and in denial . also , seeing his dinosaur pets as skeletons is scarring and upsetting , so he's really having a hell of a time . ( blind date : meredith grey )

irina denali , 28 yrs — ( 3/3 ) bella , vic , cindy moon

moody and broody but still a beauty . she'll use this as an opportunity to dress up and look absolutely stunning , and she'll be quietly observing everyone's relationship drama . being 'immortal' yet having died , mummies kind of freak her out so she'll prob be over there . ( blind date : belle french )

jack shephard , 35 yrs — ( 1/2 ) hannibal

if anyone needs medical assistance , jack can help ya out . otherwise , he'll probably be sipping a gin beverage as he strolls through the exhibits . it's rare he spends time just hanging out in museums for fun . the polar bear will prob trigger some memories from back home ... you might catch him trying to hide a spiral . ( date : michael corleone )

katniss everdeen , 22 yrs — ( 3/3 ) rue , a-xiang , peeta

please let this person live and have a good time for a night . i might allow katniss to just have a nice time and enjoy a romantic evening , in love once again . i don't trust the admins with a peaceful evening *eyes emoji* but ... we'll see how things pan out . ( date : peeta mellark )

lee jordan , 28 yrs — ( 2/2 ) wei wuxian , hongjo

distract lee from the very secret feelings he's rekindled towards draco . let him get caught up in your drama , or run around with him causing trouble as he whines about how very very single he is . expect him to pry about your love life for his podcast - he loves gossip . ( unofficial hate-date : draco malfoy )

max goodwin , 34 yrs — ( 1/2 ) carlisle

my medical director doesn't get much time to relax , so he's enjoying this night . max is very very friendly and will be genuinely interested in meeting and getting to know knew people . a very curious mind , expect him to share some good advice while gazing at the exhibits .

michael guerin , 31 yrs — ( 3/3 ) qingge , childe , tatia

being at museums like this is kind of horrifying for michael , because as a secret alien , michael's biggest fear is that the government will find him out and he'll end up himself as an exhibit in this place . also he's single and lonely - what's new - so he'll be drinking his worries away and gawking at the "human origins " . ( blind date : tatia )

monica geller , 27 yrs — ( 1/2 ) laurie

looking hot and stressed . don't think for a second that monica has forgotten how violent and chaotic balls of the past have been in washington . she'll be doing her best to stay present , but she's going to be waiting for something terrible to happen at any moment . ( "platonic" date : laurie strode )

naomi pierce , 34 yrs — ( 2/2 ) junyi , kendall

girly is looking like a 100/10 and will be happy to share some champagne and relationship advice . events , galas , museums , etc. are commonplace to her so she's in her usual public-facing-mask element . she probably wants some of the gems on display . ( date : kendall roy )

parvati patil , 22 yrs — ( 1/2 ) cho

she's feeling mischievous but doesn't know where to place that energy . eeriely familiar feelings of a ball are haunting her , but parvati doesn't have her memories of hogwarts back yet so she won't know why . will probably take this opportunity to make new friends or flirt . ( blind date : cerridwen )

ramona flowers , 25 yrs — ( 1/2 ) ellie

ramona is , of course , very open to being messy and kissing someone other than their date . they're very open to anything , actually , and they're not above putting some graffiti on some priceless artifacts . ( blind date : tigris snow )

reid oliver , 37 yrs — ( 1/2 ) brennan

dr . reid thinks this entire social event is a huge waste of time , but he is a biggg fan of the free food . for someone who makes as much money as him , a neurosurgeon , he really should have a better palate and spend money on quality food , but he loves free stuff . plus he's looking pretty good in a suit . ask him for a dance if you want , but he'll definitely deny you /: sorry he's a dance-hating bitch . ( blind date : brennan sorrengail )

richie jerimovich , 42 yrs — ( 2/3 ) nat , bellatrix

i bet you've never seen a man this drunk and messy looking this good in a suit before . if you want him to stop rambling about his former drunk adventures back home , just kiss him or something . ( blind date : bellatrix black )

robin buckley , 24 yrs — ( 2/2 ) nancy , maya

they're very excited to be on a date with a very pretty girl !! you might catch her freaking out in the bathroom about it tho . she's also very very impressed by all of the pretty things on display . plus she's looking cute in her vintage dress . ( blind date : maya hart )

roman roy , 36 yrs — ( 2/2 ) tatum , tyrell

will be judging everyone's attire , relationship , and the quality of the alcohol at the bar . but he'll look good while doing it ! he really doesn't understand consequences of actions , so feel free to pull my chaotic man into anything . ( date : tyrell wellick )

tucker mccall , 45 yrs — ( 1/2 ) ceres

mr. wildcard homewrecking gossip king himself . will certainly insert himself into anyone's relationship drama given the opportunity . if you want to flirt , gossip , or have any deep conversations about the meaning of life , he's your guy . ( blind date : ceres vurith )

zahra bankston , 40 years — ( 2/2 ) alex , qui-gon jinn

she's the director of national intelligence , so i promise if you're doing anything stupid , zahra already knows and it isn't getting past her . she's enjoying this time to bump elbows with washington's elite though , so whether she actually says or does anything at this very moment is another story . also , you bet she's looking absolutely incredible . ( blind date : qui-gon jinn )

zoe rivas , 24 years — ( 1/2 ) annabeth

wrapped up in a beautiful gown , zoe will be ready to mingle or invite you to dance . they'll probably be in the darker rooms centering around electricity and the night sky because it's more calming and beautiful than the main floors swarmed with the entire city . ( blind date : abigail mckinnon )

#hw: starter call #hwminievent6 #going to get a head start on these :)

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rappaccini · 3 months

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Hello! I came across your arachnophobia fic and I must say its quite the masterpiece and every fan of spider gwen should read it--but I do have a question. I keep seeing people say Gwen is handled better in the movies vs the comics, but you seem to think otherwise. Can you explain why, and what are the differences, cause I honestly felt they're going the same thing

first, thank you! second, you're not gonna believe how long this is. instead of an essay, have a dissertation. hopefully it makes sense:

gwen's age:

in the comics, gwen is bitten by her spider at seventeen, kills peter at eighteen, is nineteen at the start of her story and is currently in her early twenties (miles is still in high school).

in the movies, gwen is bitten at thirteen, she's fifteen in itsv and 16-17 in atsv.

gwen's appearance

spiderverse gwen doesn't wear a headband, has a pierced eyebrow, and dyes her hair pink in a reference to the marvel rising cartoon's gwen. she also has a side-shave. comics gwen wears the classic gwen stacy headband, has no interesting piercings (her dad made her take them out), and doesn't dye her hair.

spiderverse gwen wears ballet slippers, which she trades for chucks. comics gwen wears chuck soles stitched into the bottom of her costume.

gwen's powerset and fighting style.

both spiderverse and comics gwen begin with the basic starter set of spider-powers.

a year and a half after her origin story, comics gwen has lost her powers and now uses a symbiote instead. she's her world's venom. comics gwen at this point has all the basic spider powers back, but thanks to the symbiote she has new ones that are totally unique to her. presumably she can do everything venom can do, but so far we've seen her use it to protect her from suffocation and burn damage in fires, heal from serious injuries, camouflage so well she's nearly invisible or generate any outfit she can imagine, and send out sentient pieces of her suit to spy for her or track people. also, organic webbing. always fun. she also has a unique set of weaknesses: yeah she's got damage protection from fire but it fucks her symbiote up for days, she has to change her diet and control her emotions to make sure her symbiote doesn't go rogue and hijack her. and unlike other symbiotes, hers is resilient against sound damage and doesn't give a shit about the symbiote home planet.

a year and a half after her origin story, spiderverse gwen... still has the starter pack.

except for one new power: a spider-sense that is linked to miles and can sense him across dimensions.

spiderverse gwen is far more competent than comics gwen. she's graceful, precise, a quick thinker and fights with the "skill and discipline of a trained dancer." she's a ballerina who incorporates her pointe shoes into her costume in itsv, and her dance moves into her combat moves (and since her dad has a visions gymnastics sweatshirt, she's probably a gymnast too). comic-gwen is a klutz who uses all her moves from kung fu movies, brute forces her way through situations, and was never a ballerina or gymnast. comics gwen is such a fucking loser at fighting that after she's conscripted into the hand and they try to give her ninja training, they give up because they find her unteachable.

gwen's personality.

in itsv, she's a cardboard cutout with 'strong female character' scribbled on the torso. she's trinity syndrome personified: she's the stoic, confident, hypercompetent female character who for no reason at all just hangs around not contributing to a plot she should be able to fix on her own, so the writers can say 'strong female character! we're not sexist!' while getting to live their fantasy of having their relatable male lead win a cool, confident girl's respect for rapidly becoming even more competent than her. she's the wyldstyle of this movie-- which i mention because the lego movie was made by lord and miller, the brains behind the spiderverse movies.

but hey, they acknowledged that she likes to play the drums in one line, which she shares with her comics self.

in across, she finally has some of the attributes of her comics self: gwen is an impulsive emotional mess who compulsively lies to avoid rejection from her loved ones and distances herself from them when she's in emotional distress. she's extremely guilty about the death of peter parker. she's a smart mouth with a corny sense of humor, geeky interests and a passionate artist with a love of rock music. she's constantly walking on eggshells around other spider-people because of how badly she wants to fit in around them, even when they put her in situations that hurt her.

BUT. she does not have comics-gwen's temper (i don't just mean 'denting a storage container when she's mad' i mean getting genuinely homicidal even before she gets her symbiote), her total indifference to romance, and her lack of interest in getting male validation. comics gwen would never pine for a boy she barely spent one day with for seventeen months and break the rules of her spider-team to sneak away for a date with him. spiderverse gwen's character is driven by her desire for a romance, and all the other aspects of her development are secondary to it.

spiderverse gwen craves a team of heroes to work with. comics gwen mostly works alone and doesn't mind it.

gwen's queerness

[edit: wrote a monster post on this. comics-gwen has been queer the whole time and slowly but surely building towards coming out]

so i'll keep it brief: spiderverse gwen is trans-coded, but definitely written, directed and performed as heterosexual. all her romantic interests are male, she shows no interest in other girls even platonically, is driven by a desire for a romantic relationship that has a happy ending, seems to like kids, and there's even a deleted shot in the gwiles swinging date where they photobomb a wedding in place of the bride and groom.

yes, spiderverse-gwen's speech to her father screams coming-out speech. said speech is lifted directly from the comics, where gwen's original run is basically one long allegory for coming out as queer.

comics-gwen could be read as trans, but is absolutely 100% intended to be queer. she has chemistry with women as well as men, she hangs out with a queer female friend group, she ducks out of romantic relationships like she's playing dodgeball, she's constantly encountering gwen variants who are even more overtly queer-coded, she has zero maternal instincts, and she's repulsed by the idea of a future where she's happily married to a man with biological children.

gwen's backstory

for starters, a note: at the time itsv was made, comics-gwen went by "spider-woman." after itsv came out she got a rename to make her distinct from the dozen other spider-women. she's gone by "ghost-spider" for about five years now. atsv gwen still goes by spider-woman, because they either wrote the script before the name change and couldn't swap out the dialogue in time, or they decided to just stick with it to avoid confusion. no shade, but it is a difference. and it is worth noting that spiderverse-gwen has a different alter ego name that isn't unique to her.

we meet gwen two years into being spider-woman in both the movies and comics. spiderverse gwen is still in high school. comics gwen is out of high school and either a college dropout or hasn't applied yet.

spiderverse gwen goes to visions academy, and lives in an apartment in chelsea. comics gwen went to midtown high, and lives in a house in queens.

comics-gwen and her father are irreligious, but her mother had a christian funeral service, so they presumably left the faith when gwen was young. spiderverse gwen is saying grace at the table as a teenager, so at the bare minimum her father's still a christian, if not her too.

spiderverse gwen was already a hypercompetent superhero by the time peter dies. comics gwen was an irresponsible vigilante half the city hated.

spiderverse gwen's lizard fight is sanitized: gwen's best friend peter parker was pushed too far by a bully and gave himself powers to defend himself and be a hero, like spider-woman, who he knows is gwen. he attacked the prom when triggered by a bully, targeted the bully, and was killed by mistake when rubble fell on him.

in the comics, gwen's best friend peter was still a victim of bullying who gave himself lizard powers, but he did it because he was embarrassed that a girl (gwen) was sticking up for him. he's still bullied at the prom right before he lizards out, but he attacks gwen's date, not the bully, because he's angry that gwen wasn't going to the dance with him. and gwen killed peter (who didn't seem to know it was her) intentionally by beating him to death after he stopped fighting her, tried to retreat and begged her to stop. it's not a terrible misunderstanding by a cop who didn't read the situation right-- it's exactly what it looks like: gwen committed manslaughter.

idk man i find it interesting that a spider-hero story all about learning responsibility... refuses to let gwen be responsible for the most important event in her origin story.

like comics gwen, spiderverse gwen is hunted by the police, led by her dad, after peter's death, quits her band due to her stress and grief, and after taking down a supervillain that threatens his life, she's caught by her father and reveals her identity to him to stop him from arresting/shooting her. in spiderverse, gwen takes down an alternate vulture in the guggenheim with miguel and jess-- and she quits her band first. in the comics, the kingpin sends the rhino to a mary janes gig to kill captain stacy because he wants to impress spider-woman and gwen protects her father.

like comics-gwen, spiderverse gwen then encounters a recruiter for an interdimensional team of elite spider-people and joins him. spiderverse gwen meets miguel and jess, and is an accidental recruit to the spider-society after jess begs miguel to take her when her father tries to arrest her. comics gwen's dad lets her escape, and afterwards she meets spider-britain, who does find her worthy and wants her for the team, but it's the spider-army, and their goal is to protect other spider-people from a villain that's hunting them down, not the multiverse as a whole.

and she's still part of the band at this point. she quits after returning from the spider-army, who she's with for a few weeks instead of spiderverse gwen's five months.

that "my mask is my badge" speech is lifted word for word from the comics. in spiderverse, gwen gives it to her father after returning home. in the comics, gwen gives it to her father as soon as she's caught and it's what makes him decide to let her go. when spiderverse gwen joins the society, it's while believing her father wants to hurt her. when comics gwen joins the spider-army, it's while knowing her father is looking out for her.

also, it seems like itsv made gwen's first foray into the multiverse that moment in the timeline given the peter death angst... but decided to double dip and replay the same beat again for atsv. it works, but it is interesting.

in itsv, we meet gwen at the start of her arc right after peter's death. in atsv, spiderverse-gwen's status quo hasn't changed at all after a year and a half. she's still mourning peter parker, still on the run from the cops, still on the outs with her band. for reference, after a year and a half of in-universe time since peter's death in comics-gwen's continuity, she's revealed herself to her friends, family and entire city, rejoined her band, lost her powers, joined her nemesis's criminal organization in exchange for pills that temporarily give her powers back, nearly got pressured into an arranged spidermarriage with miles by interdimensional omniscient observers that are a metacommentary on the writers and fans of the comics, quit the gang, gotten a symbiote, went on a murderous rampage with said symbiote to avenge her comatose father, bonded with said symbiote, made good with her supporting cast, taken down her nemesis and his organization, been arrested, gone on trial for peter's death and gone to prison. the manhunt is over, gwen has forgiven herself and been redeemed for peter's death and her city has accepted her as a true hero. spiderverse gwen is still in comics-gwen's first issue.

gwen's relationship with miles

needs its own section

spiderverse miles is gwen's most important relationship. you know they're the big romance of the story. they're in love, somehow, even though they went on one bus ride together and spent a grand total of probably about twelve hours together across two movies and seventeen months. they're ~linked across dimensions~. they spent a year and a half pining for each other, ignoring everyone in their lives in favor of a hypothetical relationship with each other. they leap into the multiverse to find each other. they're going to defy canon for each other. they're almost certainly going to end up together.

comics gwen and comics miles aren't even friends. yes, they kissed, once, infamously. but gwen immediately regretted it, got him to agree to remain friends, and while miles carried a torch for a few years before moving on, gwen IMMEDIATELY stopped mentioning or thinking of him. she never missed him. she didn't pine for him. she didn't steal away to miles's dimension to see him again, and when she was in his dimension to go to college she made no effort to come see him. she didn't care at all that he wasn't around, she's friendly with him when they hang out during crossover and spiderverse events but she otherwise has no interest in him, and the one time she brings him up in every single spider-gwen issue since the miniseries that shipped them, it was to say "fuck off miles, i can turn invisible too, you're not that special."

(again, spiderverse gwiles have a fifteen month age gap. comics gwiles have a four year age gap with miles in high school and gwen as a college dropout, so them hanging out together casually would be weird as hell. yes, that scene of them kissing on a rooftop in the moonlight is a 20 year old woman making out with a 16 year old boy who had to sit outside like a kid waiting in the car for his mom to leave the grocery store while she went to the club. yes that happened in sitting in a tree. yes it was awful.)

to be honest the only reason gwen keeps getting trio'd off with miles and peter is synergy with the spiderverse movies. they only started doing it after itsv. miles and gwen are not friends, they're like coworkers at the same job who have a common friend in peter the manager, who occasionally end up on the same shift, who made out once at the holiday party and never spoke of it again.

though spiderverse gwiles have the chemistry and sincere emotional connection comics gwiles never did, the ship still has all the fundamental problems.

spiderverse miles is being framed as the guy who's going to break gwen's canon and set her free. in reality, like in the comics, he's the guy who will succeed at taking her independence away. the comics understood this (or at least, gwen's creator did). the movies definitely don't.

gwen's other relationships

her mother: like in the comics, spiderverse-gwen has a single dad and an absent mother, though we don't know if she left or died; and if she died, at what age? was it when she was a baby, like comics gwen? given that gwen has a present signed by her mom in her drumset, it seems like her mother was in her life longer.

her father: like in the comics, spiderverse-gwen's dad is the police chief hunting her alter ego, who discovers her identity and quits over it. unlike in the comics, her father tries to arrest her and takes months to change his mind. comics-gwen's dad instantly starts protecting her from the police. however his quitting the force is only temporary-- he rejoins later.

peter 616: comics gwen and peter-616 are close, with the kind of mentorship spiderverse-peter b and miles have. they have an older brother-younger sister vibe. they're constantly teaming up and working together, and gwen is especially protective of him. spiderverse-peter b and gwen are coworkers at most and peter b is nice to her, but doesn't bother to spend time with her, teach her things, or help her when she's in trouble.

hobie brown 138: spiderverse gwen and hobie are close friends with a romantic vibe that's definitely going to be played down and kept platonic in favor of gwiles. comics gwen and hobie are also close friends who met during an interdimensional teamup, and also have a romantic vibe but the context is different-- in the comics, when the spidergeddon event that the writers definitely used as inspiration for atsv since it features the only appearance of margo kess and the miles-gwen-hobie love triangle, comic gwen and comic hobie are the ones with the stronger romantic connection, and the scene where someone in the love triangle appears to die, a member of the love triangle panics and when they arrive they have a shippy moment with someone? in the comics, gwen gets the death fakeout, and even though miles flips out, hobie is the one who gets the shippy moment with her when she survives.

anya corazon: spiderverse gwen doesn't interact with her at all. comics gwen, during the time she joins a multiversal spider team where pav and hobie are also present, hangs out with anya more than pav. pav's around, but they're more acquaintances who work together than actual friends.

miguel o'hara: spiderverse gwen works for and looks up to him, before losing faith in him and finding the courage to stand up against him. comics gwen barely knows his ass.

peter 65: spiderverse gwen was clearly in love with peter-65, wanted to be his girlfriend so bad she's projecting peter onto miles for a do-over, and his death was a terrible accident. comics gwen was never attracted to hers, was uncomfortable with his crush on her, and is personally responsible for killing him after he pulled a 'quiet kid brings a gun to prom to punish the girl who turned him down by killing her date.' spiderverse peter admires spider-woman, crushes on gwen and his candid photos of her are framed as flattering, and comics-peter had a pepe silvia conspiracy wall shrine dedicated to her that is framed as a toxic obsession. i really, really hate how the spiderverse writers decided that he was just a nice guy who was pushed too far, and gwen would have loved to be with him. the whole point is the opposite.

harry osborn: speaking of comic gwen's date: harry osborn. comic gwen went to the prom with harry. she, harry and peter were a trio of best friends. spiderverse gwen went with peter, and doesn't seem to have a harry at all.

jessica drew: both gwens are mentored by a jess from another dimension. spiderverse gwen is constantly strung along by jess, who doesn't give her any emotional support and ultimately refuses to protect her. comics gwen gets along great with her, and their relationship is far more egalitarian because comics-gwen is an adult and not a minor.

the mary janes: spiderverse gwen doesn't seem to regard the mary janes as her real friends ("i never found the right band to join" = "it's not just my grief that's separating me from them, i sincerely don't relate to them"). comics gwen loves her friends even when she's grieving peter and always, always tries to find her way back to them, even when she can't be honest with them. also, betty brant and glory grant's personalities, styles, and instruments have been swapped around. in the comics, glory's the keyboardist with the super gay vibe who takes gwen's place. also, comics-em jay is white, spiderverse em jay is black; comics em jay grew up with gwen and is her closest friend now that peter is dead (and seems to have feelings for her), spiderverse em jay... who even knows.

her villains: spiderverse gwen's doc ock is ripped right from the raimi movies. in the comics, gwen's doc ock is a goofy villain of the week who's a lackey of another big bad, and whose octopus is a literal giant blue octopus. spiderverse gwen's kraven is ripped right from the comics, and her last canon event was kraven's last hunt. comics gwen's kraven was another goofy villain of the week who instead of hunting animals, controls a giant safari of exotic animals and uses them to hunt people. comics gwen hasn't had a kraven's last hunt canon event and never can because her kraven would never do that. i mention this because movie gwen's rogues gallery is unique to her world and full of fun and interesting original takes on well-known characters. spiderverse gwen's rogues gallery just rips from what's been done somewhere else without bothering to do something new.

related: spiderverse gwen's j jonah jameson is a reporter, like he is literally everywhere else. comic gwen's jjj is the mayor of new york city.

spiderverse gwen in general is a guys' girl. all her friends are guys, all her mentors minus jess are guys, and all her significant relationships that are positive are with men. all her validation comes from men (her father, her love interest, her friends). comics-gwen has some male friends and allies, but generally regards them with a lot more trepidation because they usually end up coming onto her or trying to control her.

in the comics, gwen’s greatest supporters are women. the mary janes. janet van dyne and her captain america. jessica and anya. gwen-617 and the literal council of spider-gwens who exist only to protect each other. gwen's clones. the alternate gwens who are avengers in their respective worlds. she prefers the company of other women (the mary janes most of all) to guys. spiderverse gwen's relationships with women are all negative: she's jealous at margo over a boy's attention, she seems to have not reconnected with peni, she has a strained relationship with jess that falls apart by the end of the film, she quits the mary janes, which does happen in the comics, but given that she ends the movie declaring she "never found the right band to join" she's implying she doesn't intend to be friends with them now that she... sigh, has a band of guys. and two girls who aren't her friends and aren't there for her.

gwen's arc.

grief and guilt: both gwens are grieving the death of their best friend and feel guilty over his death.

-> when comics-gwen gets over her grief and guilt about peter's death, it's by taking responsibility for killing him. she apologizes to his friends and family. she completely changes her fighting style to pull her punches and tries to empathize with her villains so she'll never kill anyone who could've been helped again. she goes to jail willingly and stays there to serve out her sentence despite being given opportunities to leave early. she does it for the people she and peter love, and for her own sake.

-> spiderverse gwen seems to be getting over her grief and guilt over peter's death by latching onto miles and transferring all her feelings about peter onto him. if she can protect miles from bullies (... like the spider-society), keep him safe and alive, and successfully become his girlfriend without someone dying in the process, she's done it. also, the context of her guilt is totally different: spiderverse gwen isn't guilty that she killed peter, she's guilty that she outlived him.

redemption and responsibility. both are seeking redemption for a bad thing they did at the start of the story to someone they care about, that got that person seriously hurt. they get it by accepting responsibility for that action and making amends.

-> comics gwen's entire first run is essentially a redemption arc. she begins the story as a selfish irresponsible vigilante who recklessly gets someone killed and has such a bad reputation that the city's villains think she's one of them. and she spends 30+ issues of comics changing her ways, realizing how corrupt her nyc and its courts and police are and becoming a hero to protect the people from them.

-> spiderverse gwen's crime is lying to miles (about the society, what it does, why he's not in it, her runaway situation, her feelings, his father's upcoming death...) and not sticking up for him when the spider-society turns on him. she's redeeming herself by searching for him through the multiverse, and intending to apologize to him, be honest to him about her feelings (and probably the gwen stacy death canon event) and take him home to protect his family.

girlbossery, acab and radicalization. both gwens mean well but have blind spots about certain structural inequalities due to their privilege that they shed after they cause harm to a loved one. they radicalize throughout the story thanks in part to hobie brown, and both of the stories they're in have a strong acab theme.

->comics gwen begins the story as a girlbossy white feminist. i am dead serious. she was (a variant of gwen stacy 616, who had a white feminism problem nobody remembers) created in the mid-2010s, in the middle of the girlboss feminism heyday, the arrival of the first wave of Strong Female Characters, and right around the time discussions of police brutality started gaining traction in the mainstream. and comics gwen is a commentary on those things. she initally uses her Great Power to be irresponsible, but is held accountable for that irresponsibility: just because gwen's a girl doesn't mean her power is inherently empowering if she's using it only to benefit herself. it is extremely relevant that gwen's called out for fucking around and calling herself a hero while actual structural issues hurting the city's people are going unchallenged by her world's hobie brown-- and she listens, realizes he's right, and shapes the fuck up. see: her redemption arc.

-> her killing of peter parker is framed as an act of police brutality, and the entire first run of her comics is a giant acab thesis. the "my mask is my badge speech" = gwen initially sees herself as a cop. her frank castle/punisher is a murderous cop. gwen's dad is a whistleblower, and his departure from the police force and gwen's radicalization are paralleled on purpose. half the cops are working with the criminals, the other half are reckless or incompetent, and all of them are out to get gwen. even the One Good Detective character is still an antagonist to gwen in the end, and she hands her over to another broken, abusive system- the prison system. it's not subtle. comics gwen's arc is about how a cop becomes a hero.

-> i should point out that the reason gwen's comics after the first run keep failing to connect is that all the writers who've handled her since her creator don't seem to realize this. the girlboss vibe is back and it's awful.

-> spiderverse gwen was 100% given that girlboss vibe in itsv, so it's there. and since peter's death is a misunderstanding, the vigilante aspect of comics-gwen's arc doesn't exist here, nor does the girlboss deconstruction.

-> her father's mishandling of gwen at the scene of peter's death and the guggenheim still works as a critique though. the "my mask is my badge" speech is still here and her dad still quits the force for her. and the spider-society are cops. her naivete about them causes her to lead to miles into a dangerous situation that she does not protect him from, she becomes disillusioned after he is harmed, and hobie gives her a way to go against the society to protect miles and his family.

-> there's another element to spiderverse gwen's arc that's unique to the movies: race. gwen and miles are an interracial couple. gwen's a white girl bringing the black boy she likes away from his community into a society where he is not safe because he is black, and where she fails to stick up for him when he and his family are threatened by said society. and when gwen meets miles's family, they rightfully doubt her intentions and don't accept her until she proves she understands how important they and his community are to him, apologizes for trying to take him away, and commits to bringing him back and helping him protect them. again, gwen radicalizes because of and for miles. (... and for some reason, not hobie, even though she's spent far more time with him and he's far more political)

... are we noticing a theme in why these changes are being made?

gwen's metanarrative

who is gwen stacy?

-> gwen stacy is the girl who only appears in spider-man's story to be his love interest, who's challenging to win the affection of, and unattainable because she's out of his league, she's not from his world and her father figure is out to get the hero, which means when the hero finally gets her, you know he's really special. and she's the girl who dies, totally helpless, so the hero can look even more special for trying to save her, because the trying's what really matters, right? and even though she's in a world where people come back from the dead all the time, she never does. she's cloned a few times, but they're all just copies of her who drop dead quickly. she's resurrected a few times, but that's just to tell spider-man she loves him, she forgives him, she doesn't forgive him, she's disappointed in him. it keeps going.

-> and every time the story's retold, and gwen is in it, it happens again. because nobody telling the story wants it to change. they like it best this way. it's like this for forty years. 1973 to 2014.

who is gwen stacy?

-> gwen stacy was the most beautiful girl in school. she was also a science whiz who was her boyfriend's intellectual equal. she was a fantastic student at the top of her class. she was a party girl and a night owl. she was temperamental and selfish. she was a devoted daughter to her cop father and a great friend who came back to nyc even though she left afraid for her life because her friends and boyfriend were there and that was worth the risk. she was peter's first serious girlfriend. she dated flash and harry too, sometimes while also seeing peter. she was a feminist who objected when peter was sexist to her and treated her poorly. she was totally fine with disrupting campus vietnam war protests when they got in the way of her education and contemplated campaigning for a racist fascist politician if he promised to lock spider-man up too. she hated spider-man. she loved peter parker.

-> nobody talks about most of that. just the first thing, and the last, and the one in the middle about her being the hero's first love. everything else dips in and out, usually to contrast her to mj.

why is the death of gwen stacy such a problem?

-> because for forty years, nobody wanted to do something different. because nobody remembered that she was a person.

-> that's what spider-gwen is for.

spider-gwen's metanarrative is about being a gwen stacy in a spider-man story. it's about being a female character in a story written by, for and about men. it's about being a young woman (specifically white and queer) in a world made by, for and about men

-> gwen stacy dies because she's a girl in a world that doesn't see her as a person, just an extension of a more important man.

-> spider-gwen lives because she's in a world where it's possible for her to be her own person, and she has a story designed to give her the power of the protagonist. she gets to leave the male gaze behind and be in stories that aren't about her boyfriend.

-> in the comics, we first meet her at the age original gwen died. and she passes it. in order to do that, her first villain, who she has to kill to access a story where she gets to be the protagonist, is the boy the story's usually about, peter parker. she kills him and incites the hate of her city by, direct quote: "breaking his heart."

-> gwen's world and her narrative know she wasn't supposed to be the hero, to not be interested in peter romantically, and to outlive him. they punish her for it. she's gwen stacy and this is a spider-man story. it's trying to kill her. her friends and family hate her and hunt her for peter. she's constantly swinging past billboards deifying peter as a sweet boy who never would have tried to murder his friends, with a hotline for spider-woman tips called 1-800-for peter. when she's sent to prison, it's for peter. and after she gets out, her world and it keeps trying to spit her out and send her to 616. where peter parker-616 lives. but she's not being sent there for peter. she's being sent there for miles.

-> when comics gwen and miles go on their one date in ten years of publication history, gwen encounters omniscient watchers that show her a utopian future where she is a loved superhero, and the wife of miles morales. those two things are linked. the watchers, who are stand-ins for the spider-man writers and fandom, have decided that spider-gwen can be tolerated, but only if she belongs to a different spider-man. gwen sees through the manipulation, turns miles down because she wants them to challenge fate and make their own choices, and hasn't relented in close to a decade.

-> her alternate selves form a secret society to protect their narratives from people who want to take their agency away. gwen's creator ends his run on her comics by inserting himself into the narrative as an alternate gwen speaking directly to the reader, whose insert is a salty watcher who's pissed that gwen hasn't left her world to go hook up with miles and pump out his babies yet, telling them gwen deserves a world of her own and a story that's new. and what's not new is being the hero's girlfriend. what's new is being the hero, with stories about her as an individual. -> comics gwen doesn't need miles to teach her that she can imagine something better for herself. she does it on her own. and she's the one who tells miles he should do the same.

-> spiderverse gwen never kills peter with a power he was supposed to have instead of her. she even loves him back. her world still turns on her anyway. the problem was never that she did or didn't kill him. it was that she got a story of her own. then she enters the spiderverse, meets miles, and her story isn't hers ever again.

-> spiderverse gwen gets a pov in atsv. her pov is about she how loves miles, thinks he's so special, has been inspired by him to do things differently and wants to be his girlfriend. she gets a story. the story is about becoming the kind of girl miles needs. she gets a metanarrative. the metanarrative is that maybe, if she gets with a different spider-man than the usual one, it'll work out. -> even then, spiderverse gwen has to get this idea from miles, and she doesn't believe in it until he inspires her to try.

they are very, very different characters.

for what it's worth, i don't want every adaptation of spider-gwen to be like the original. if you're adapting to a different medium, that brings with it different drawbacks, opportunities and needs and satisfying those to tell the best story possible is more important than being 100% accurate to the story.

and with spiderverse gwen, i like some of the changes. i think they have great potential.

gwen's age: yes, it's relevent in a meta sense that comics spider-gwen is at the age original gwen dies, but kids have trouble relating to characters older than high school age, and kids are who these movies are for. aging gwen down so we first encounter her as a high schooler makes her more relatable to them.

gwen's appearance: i like that gwen isn't wearing the headband and gets an edgier hairstyle. comics characters have to have the same hairstyle all the time because comics artists can only draw so many faces and it helps keep them straight, so gwen had to keep the headband so people would know she's a gwen. it's great that a movie that doesn't have that limitation did something new.

gwen's fighting style: making gwen less klutzy was necessary in itsv because it would've undercut how miles was the clumsy one, as the character newest to his powers. i like that gwen is the one with more experience. and i think making gwen a ballerina is a great idea, now that atsv has gwen ditching the pointe shoes for her chucks.

-> it marks a development in her character: gwen begins as a girl who aligns with more traditional expectations of femininity, and through being spider-woman, finds the confidence to reject them and do her own thing. it works even better since spiderverse gwen is younger than comics gwen, who's much more comfortable not fitting in. it makes sense that a 15 year old girl would be less comfortable with being herself than a 19 year old.

-> from a thematic perspective: ballerinas are powerful disciplined athletes and dedicated artists who are stereotyped as frivolous and delicate, and whose bodies are admired for their sex appeal instead of their strength. they're the pinnacle of ideal femininity: thin, (white), beautiful, young, graceful, silent, demure, sexy, in pain but smiling through it even as it literally wrecks their bodies and minds, interchangeable and easily replaced by the time they hit forty. becoming one is often imposed on you as a young child instead of something you choose, the culture is unbelievably toxic, the actual dancing is painful, and pro ballerinas have to put so much work into their craft that it destroys their bodies before they hit middle age. and many ballets are romances-- the most famous being romantic tragedies where the ballerina dies after a love gone wrong. making gwen stacy, the perfect, delicate, conventionally beautiful, rule-following too-good-to-be-true girlfriend who dies young a ballerina is a brilliant idea.

-> it also makes her more appealing to the girls she's meant to be for: many little girls have dance, specifically ballet, pushed towards them as an interest they're both supposed to like and be good at, and will be mocked for liking. seeing a ballerina be this powerful and not be mocked for using her dance skills is important-- there's a reason why female fans latched onto it so hard. and gwen letting go of the ballet shoes for something punkier is just as relatable: many girls, as they grow older and start gaining more autonomy, often reject the traditionally feminine things that are imposed upon them. possibly even the same girls who watched itsv as children and atsv as teenagers.

gwen's powers: i don't mind that spiderverse gwen doesn't have a symbiote. i just wish that when she's in group fight scenes, she isn't stuck with just pretty-looking kicks while the other characters get to do more interesting things than her. jess has a motorcycle, miguel has fangs and claws, hobie has his guitar, miles has invisibility and bioelectricity, margo can clone herself and stretch her arms, peni pilots a giant robot, pav is super strong and uses a unique weapon for his webslinging. and gwen... pirouettes and then bonks her head so she can fall and miles can catch her.

gwen's personality: craving belonging with the spider-society is necessary to the plot. if she weren't so desperate to stay with them, her motivation for lying to miles falls apart. and i like that gwen's dishonesty to other spider-people is an intentional part of the plot; when comics gwen withholds information from other spider-people and acts uncharacteristically peppy around them, it's because the people writing her in crossover events don't know that information or that she's out of character, because they haven't read her comics. being around other spider-people is bad for gwen, and the spiderverse movies are the first piece of canon to actually bring that up.

gwen's queerness: i love that we can add a trans-coded gwen to the long list of queercoded spider-gwens. and that a trans-coded girl is the subject of desire for multiple boys, without any creepiness attached to it. it also creates a more subversive reason for gwen's ballet background and need for a boyfriend: she's using those things to access the kind of femininity reserved for cis girls.

gwen's backstory: gwen living in the city distinguishes her from the peter parker derivative setting of queens. making gwen's dad religious adds another wrinkle to their relationship. i love the guggenheim fight and think it's a more visually dynamic scene and a better fit to introduce the spider-society as interdimensional cops. the shift from protecting against an existential threat to spider-people to canon cops is a better fit for atsv's acab theme.

gwen's relationship with miles: i like that miles and gwen are friends and peers. i love that the spiderverse movies made the connection that they are both in the same position: both are marginalized by a story designed by, for and about white men. them being spider-people is an existential threat to it (an afrolatino boy who's the hero instead of the side-villain; a queer girl who's the hero instead of the hero's girlfriend). both are punished for not being able to live up to harmful expectations about what they're allowed to be. they're in perfect positions to understand each other's situation and help one another break free.

gwen's other relationships: i LOVE that gwen got to have more time with her mother. i LOVE gwen and pav's friendship, and that even if it's never going anywhere and no one will admit it, everyone knows about the romantic vibe between gwen and hobie now. the creepy worst case scenario girldad vibe miguel has towards gwen makes my head spin. gwen and jess's fucked up foster mother-daughter vibe is fascinating. and racebending em jay helps distinguish her from mj-616.

gwen's arc: the one thing about spiderverse gwiles that i like is that gwen's projecting peter parker onto miles. her fixation on him makes sense in that context, and gwen having survivor's guilt over not dying in peter's place makes sense, especially after all the time she spent being exposed to the multiverse, and is very compelling. i like that gwen gets to lose her faith in the spider-people and connecting the spider-society to the cops gwen is often in opposition to was brilliant. and having some of her white feminism called out in any capacity is good, especially since that element of her character is missing lately.

gwen's metanarrative: i like that the movies are pointing out that gwen should be able to have a romantic relationship with spider-man that doesn't end badly. like yeah. she should. a girl should not have to be eternally single or shun men forever to be safe and keep her autonomy. heterofatalism is bullshit and if we act like it's not we're accepting men as inherently terrible instead of challenging them to be better than that. and the potential of spider-gwen's character will be fulfilled once she is able to have this relationship and no one even questions that she can live and retain protagonism of her own story.

i like these changes! i think they're a good fit to this version of the character, they enhance the spiderverse story, and they're great additions to spider-gwen's canon. i think if comics-gwen incorporates some of these original elements she could benefit from them.

but. the changes were not made for the reasons i listed. at most, they were happy side effects of the real reason the changes were made.

the changes were made for miles.

it's that simple. even though the spiderverse movies are all about the importance of intersectionality and representation, gwen isn't here to represent the little girls and women in the audience, or show the boys and men in the audience that girls can be the heroes of their own stories too.

she's here to be miles's girlfriend.

gwen's age: was reduced to make her a more appropriate romantic interest for miles. why 15, instead of 16 or 17? so she's only 15 months older than him. no one can object to that age gap.

gwen's appearance: she has an eyebrow piercing because comics miles's first love interest, who has the exact same 'sneaking a look at you in the visions classroom/watching you in the hallway' moments, is katie bishop, who has an eyebrow piercing and a punk vibe to her design. the entire itsv gwen-miles vibe is just miles and katie with gwen replacing katie. -> the side shave happens because of miles. she keeps it as a reminder of him.

gwen's fighting style: gwen has pointe shoes because the itsv animators didn't look closely enough at her design to notice she's wearing chucks instead of ballet flats (and realized it in time for atsv). and also probably because as the token girl hero, they wanted her to be graceful, and a dancer's more appealing to a teenage boy than a grungy drummer.

gwen's powers: were kept basic so gwen can accompany miles on adventures without being a liability but she can never outshine him. she might have more spider-person experience than him, but he catches up so fast it doesn't matter.

-> instead of retreading her origin, couldn't they have reintroduced gwen in atsv when she was dependent on power-up pills? she had a multiversal encounter with miles then, so there's even comic precedent. plus her father being in the hospital and gwen being in the custody of the kingpin would be even more frightening, because spiderverse gwen is a minor-- wanting to flee that situation and being willing to do anything to avoid returning to it makes perfect sense.

-> THAT could've been the thing that made her stand out during group fights: at any moment she could become vulnerable. especially if the spider-society's providing them, and quitting means she'll be entering the climax with only a few power-up pills left.

-> plus, she could get her symbiote in btsv.

instead? her one new power revolves around being constantly aware of her boyfriend's needs even when he isn't on the same plane of reality as her. no woman or girl would want this. every teenage boy would want the girl he likes to have it. so apparantly do the grown men who wrote atsv.

gwen's personality: is all about miles. when she's dishonest, it's for miles's safety. when she's running from her problems, she's running from her feelings for miles. when she plays the drums she thinks of miles. when she's a nerd, she likes, of all things, the exact same action figures miles collects. when she finds the strength to defy authority and strike out on her own, it's to protect miles. her rage was toned down, and her need for romance was cranked up. for miles. and if gwen doesn't need male validation, keeping miles's approval would be a lot less important to her. gwen was a fantasy in itsv, and she's still a fantasy in atsv.

gwen's queerness: the trans-coding is important and not any less powerful than any other kind of queer representation. but it does feel like the creators decided on it as a way to acknowledge spider-gwen's queerness... while also making sure she was still attracted to miles and he didn't have any more competition for her.

-> oh my god the power-ups could have been an allegory for estrogen.

gwen's backstory: gwen goes to visions because miles goes to visions (note how they have more things in common because the writers are removing what makes gwen unique?). gwen doesn't kill peter because if she did, miles wouldn't find her attractive anymore. gwen liked peter back because if she didn't, she wouldn't respond well to miles's crush. gwen's status quo and her development as a character have stagnated for 17 months, while miles has grown into his own as a hero to fix the maturity gap. by stunting her growth.

gwen's relationship with miles: is being framed as a canon-defying epic romance that's never worked out before (not true; it has: see earth-8) but will this time. but it's only going to subvert canon and free gwen from her narrative if they don't get together. if they become a couple, nothing changes. she's still the girlfriend, even if she lives. and she will never be treated as his equal by the writers or the audience anywhere they're together.

-> gwen is all in on helping miles break his canon. but in btsv, will miles help gwen break hers? or will he stop short at 'well, i can break mine. but you can't because yours benefits me.'

gwen's other relationships: gwens' supporting cast was gutted to make her dependent on miles for emotional support. peter b isn't her mentor because he's miles's. jess can only redeem herself to gwen by helping miles. the miles-gwen-hobie love triangle was reconfigured so miles comes out on top. peter 65 is gwen's lost love, so she can find it again with miles. harry's cut from her origin story so miles has less competition. gwen's supporting cast and and villains are mixed up because the creators either never read gwen's comics past the first few issues, or did and didn't care what makes her world unique. gwen's a guys' girl so she can be the cool girlfriend who hangs out with your bros but would never cheat on you with one of them, and who'd never prioritize her girls over her boyfriend. gwen snips at margo because miles is so hot he's got girls fighting over him.

gwen's arc: isn't about becoming a better hero. it's about becoming a better girlfriend.

-> her grief and guilt can be overcome by successfully protecting and ending up with miles. why get over peter when you can replace him with miles? why die for your boyfriend when you can live for him?

-> she can't redeem herself by taking responsibility for the reckless, selfish actions she takes for her own sake. just the ones that harm miles.

-> her radicalization still happens, but on a different scale: she doesn't do it to be a better hero for her city. she does it to become a better ally to miles and his world. (remember the swinging date, when she introduces herself as HIS friendly neighborhood's spider-woman?)

every time gwen is punished by the narrative, it's for doing something that moves her away from miles, like lying to him or not having his back. every time she's rewarded, it's for moving closer to him, like sticking up for him in front of his parents, or deciding to apologize to him.

when gwen resolves her conflict with her father, it's because she went home to get her photo of miles, not to face him. and it's resolved so gwen has her baggage out of the way and nothing's stopping her from pursuing miles.

when gwen decides to resist the spider-society and lead her own spider-team, it's made up mostly of people there for miles, their goal is to support miles, and she'll probably hand leadership of the team to miles when he joins them in btsv. it's not her team, it's his.

gwen's metanarrative: is now just 'hey gwen, if you choose a different boyfriend, and you're super supportive of him, maybe we won't kill you this time!' and she still has to have miles come up with it, and inspire her to believe in it.

because if she wants to be her own person, she can't be miles's person.

it's about miles. she was put in these movies to be his girlfriend, and was written from the ground up to be accepting of that.

fifty years after the death of gwen stacy and ten years after the creation of spider-gwen, she's being put back in the narrative of spider-man's girlfriend. the most change they're willing to make is that this time, the girlfriend will live, and the spider-man will be miles instead of peter. the most agency they're willing to give gwen is the agency to climb back into the girlfriend box herself so miles doesn't have to take responsibility for taking her story away from her.

that's the problem. that's why spiderverse gwen isn't handled better in the movies than the comics. comics gwen is the main character. spiderverse gwen is the main character's girlfriend.

sorry about the length. hopefully that answers your question.

-----

p.s.: even if she squeaks out of btsv single, will it be because gwen realizes she needs to be her own person? or will it be because miles comes to that conclusion for her? or hell, maybe it'll be that he isn't ready to be with her yet.

#arachnophobia fic #asks #spider gwen salt #spiderverse salt

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