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literally years ago i started transcribing this and then never got around to finishing it but finally did with some help from oomf. pls tell me if you notice any errors!

below the cut:

5-3-21

AJ: We are so excited to have Ellen Hughes hop on the bus with us today. So Ellen, welcome. And to give a little background, you grew up in Dallas, which, a long time ago before the Stars, there were not- it was not a hockey hotbed, as maybe it is now. Played a lot of sports. You ended up playing soccer, hockey and lacrosse, three sports at UNH, made it to the NCAA semifinal game in Lacrosse in 1987, inducted into the UNH Athletic Hall of Fame in 2012. You ultimately pursued a graduate degree at UNH, and while you did that, assistant coached for both the soccer and hockey teams. Ultimately, you made Team USA for the 1992 World Championship, where with Cammi you won a silver, named to the tournament All-Star Team. Two years later, at the Worlds in ‘94, you served as an ambassador to Norway's national team, went on into broadcasting. You were in the booth for when Cam and I won gold in 1998 with CBS and then a sideline reporter for the 1999 World Cup of soccer. Your husband, Jim, is a former hockey player and coach, has worked for the Maple Leafs organization. And of course, you are the uber matriarch, hockey mom of North America because you have three superstar sons. You've got Quinn, drafted number seven overall, plays D for Vancouver. You've got Jack, who is number one overall with the New Jersey Devils and of course, Luke, eligible for the draft this year. So welcome, Ellen. We can't wait to catch up with you.

Ellen: Thanks so much for having me. And thanks for the nice intro. I know, AJ, you see Jack here and there with the Islanders, could you remind him of some of those things, that I actually had a life? And Cammi, I know you've been nice enough to have Quinn over for dinner, not this year because of COVID, but maybe you could give him that whole intro again that, I did something other than just being their mother.

Cammi: Well, you know, it's funny. There is probably, I don't know what it was, maybe four or five months ago, you had sent me a video that you guys found, which we have to post on our social media channel here. But it was you as this little cute, blond, tiny little voice hockey player being interviewed in Texas, of all places, for hockey. Right? A woman, a female playing hockey, let alone kids playing hockey in Texas is so rare. Right? And I remember Quinn texting me and being like, said something about your skating, how bad it was. And I was like, little do all your kids know is that their talent comes from their mom. I've nothing—taking away nothing from Jimmy, because Jimmy was a great athlete himself. But you and Quinn play almost identical. And I'm going to keep reminding him of that.

Ellen: I love it. I love it. I usually get like just one word, dust[?] with things like that.

Cammi: Yeah, well, thank you for being here.

AJ: Yeah, yeah. But I want to start back with the fact that you grew up in a nontraditional hockey market. I know. According to USA Hockey, we’re not supposed to say that anymore because there are all—they don't really consider that anymore. There are so many with the Coyotes and the Stars and the two teams in Florida and Southern California. But when you grew up in Dallas, hockey was not a mainstream sport. I can imagine you had to have been playing on the boys team. Can you tell us what it was like growing up in Dallas then?

Ellen: Well, it's so funny because you see, you know, it's so exciting to see where the women's game has gone. And, you know, you forget how old you are and you kind of forget like, wow, that was pretty unusual what I was doing back then. And, you know, I'm even older than Cammi, so Cammi's older than you, AJ. Sorry to age you there, Cammi. But you forget that what we were doing in those times as young girls and how… you know, unusual it was, because we were fortunate enough to have parents that encouraged us and led us and pushed us and created those opportunities to play with the boys. And it's amazing to think that we did that and it seemed so normal to me. And my dad's been gone a long time, like he used to coach us. But I think about the fact that as a young girl in Dallas, Texas, a nontraditional market, to have a father that said, “Oh, you want to play hockey? Okay, you can play with the boys and you can go do those things.” And just how lucky I was to have a father that created those opportunities and supported those opportunities. And so it's pretty great. But we used to play down at the fairground. So, so people that know Dallas know that, you know, there's a fairgrounds downtown and the Cotton Bowl is played there every year. And there used to be a CHL team. So the old CHL. And so for us, it was very normal. I have an older brother that played and then went off to prep school and played at Deerfield Academy and then played Division three college hockey at Bowden. He could have played Division one, very academically oriented, and that's what he chose to do. So you want to do everything that your brother did. So when we were really little, we moved from St Louis to Dallas, and when I was in St Louis, all I wanted to do was play hockey. But in the state of Missouri, and I may have this factually not correct, but this is what my parents told me, that the girls weren’t allowed to play on boys’ teams in the state of Missouri. So when I knew I was moving, it was on my eighth birthday and my dad said, Well, it'd be great because you can play on- you can play hockey when you move to Dallas. So that's when I was so excited about the move. Like I could go play on a boys team because there was no girls’ teams to play on. And so there's only one team, if you're good enough, you play on the best team. And we would travel to St Louis, we would travel to Kansas City, we would travel to Colorado a couple of times a year and we would go play the best teams that we could possibly play. I just didn't understand at that point that was the world that I was living in, that that was unusual or different. So every once in a while I look back on it and think how fortunate I was to have parents that really not only supported it but encouraged it and let me really sow my own oats.

Cammi: When you were in St Louis, you saw the game of hockey around you. You wanted to play, you couldn't play. Did you play off ice then to be ready for when you moved and were like able to play or did you just start fresh when you moved to Texas?

Ellen: You know, I don't even remember. I was eight, so I don’t- I don't- it I must have been- I must have learned how to skate, but I wasn't playing. I don't really remember playing, like I remember running around the rinks with your brothers. I mean, you know how that is. You play mini sticks at the rinks, y’know. But I always wanted to play. I wanted to play everything. So, you know, I was just… and then off I went and I just started playing and I loved it. And I was fortunate because, you know, Cammi, you never went to Bob Johnson’s hockey school in Colorado, did you, in Aspen?

Cammi: No.

Ellen: I know, because I know you have a close relations with that whole Wisconsin crew. But every summer we spent the month of August in Aspen, and I would do the Bob Johnson Hockey School. So I actually think I did that like, at seven, before I ever moved, and they would always let me play. So it was Bob, it was Grant Standbrook, it was Jeff Sauer, all these people that, y’know, were so supportive of the women's game, Art Berglund who just passed away. And so I would spend my summers there playing and being groomed by the players that played with Tony at Wisconsin. It would have been their generation of players that were the camp counselors and that was right around the ‘84 men's Olympics. And a lot of those guys went on to play in that. So I think culturally that was exciting for me and that's where my passion grew.

Cammi: And you played soccer as a young girl as well.

Ellen: Yes. So soccer: really competitive. You know, we won youth nationals. And I was, I mean, it's crazy to think that I'm going to be 53 years old. And when I was being recruited to play women's soccer, there were 31 Division one schools across the country offering scholarships. And so Wisconsin was one of them. And I really wanted to go there because of my allegiance with that. But they had no women's hockey. So when we— [...]

Cammi: That's where I- me, too. I wanted to go as well. We would have been teammates instead of rivals.

Ellen: Right, at least for one year. I think you were a freshman my senior year. Is that right?

Cammi: Either junior or senior. Yeah. Yeah.

Ellen: [Laughs] So anyway, so the soccer side of things, you know, if you were an elite player, you wanted to go to UNC. My very best friend on the team growing up on my youth hockey, my youth soccer team was Carla Werden, you know her as Carla Overbeck, who became the captain of the team in the first World Cup team. Mia Hamm, I played with on my state team, so we were really good in those days. Brandi Chastain was my roommate at my first youth national team camp for soccer. So that was my, you know, generation of players. And I wasn't recruited by UNC, but I was recruited by some of the other top schools and I had this like, crossroads, where am I going to go to a school like UNH, where there are startup women's soccer programs, but yet I can play two sports. And they were offering me a full scholarship. And the crazy thing is there was no school in the state of Texas that was playing Division one Women's soccer. Think about that. Not a one. I mean, there was 31. I think there's 360 some odd schools, Division one programs at this rate for women's soccer. So that's how the landscape changed and that's how the lack of landscape really drove my next move.

Cammi: So you chose UNH. You played soccer and hockey, but then you also added lacrosse.

Ellen: Yeah. And the interesting thing about hockey is here I am, this girl coming out of Dallas and nobody knew about me. And as you know, Providence at the time, so all the Ivy Leagues were playing hockey and then we didn't have a lot of programs back then that were playing. So it was all the Ivy- it was the ECAC. So it was what, maybe 15 teams playing? How many, 22?

Cammi: Yeah, roughly 22.

Ellen: And so there weren't a lot of options. So there were so many girls playing that wanted to get on those teams. So I remember reaching out to Russ McCurdy who was the coach and saying, “You know, I'm being looked at by UNH for women's soccer, but I'm only coming there because I want to play women's hockey,” and he was like, “Oh, you know, you're probably not going to make the team. You know, we're a fully funded program.” I mean, you know how that goes, right? Right, right. Why would you take a girl out of Dallas you knew nothing about, playing in these, he asked if I was playing women's hockey at that time. And so I had- you know, I wasn't guaranteed a spot, but I'd watched them play, and my mom and dad watched them play. And I really, in my heart of hearts thought I'd be able to play. And they were a fully funded program and my scholarship was coming from soccer. And so, I decided that I wanted to do it. And he said, and I remember having Bob Johnson at the time call on my behalf. He called, he was at Wisconsin still, and he called and said, you know, she can play, she’s been with me every summer, and I really think you should give her a shot. So he said, okay. So the deal was, I was going to play soccer. Well all the women start with hockey, probably—when did we start, in the fall, like in mid-September. And they had the whole training camp, while I was still playing soccer until Thanksgiving. And so I said, when you get done with soccer, just come see me and I'll give you a week to try out, to get up to speed. So he really had no thought of me or like, there was no, like, ‘she's not making this team.’ So we finished soccer and then I went over to hockey and I remember after my first day he said, “What size states do you wear?” So that was like, that, that made me happy. Like that was it. I was on the team, so it was pretty good.

And then our women's soccer coach, Marge Anderson, was one of the most decorated women's lacrosse players in those days. She had played at UMass for soccer and hockey, and she was on the World Cup team for lacrosse. So she would take a couple of athletes a year because in those days you needed female athletes to play more than one sport, to really round out your depth of your programs. So she had encouraged me to come out and play lacrosse. I knew nothing about it. So our first year they had just won the national championship the year before, believe it or not. Did you guys know UNH won the National Women's Lacrosse championship? Different landscape in those days. So they had won the national championship. None of the Southern schools were playing. Nobody across the country was playing. It was a real Northeast-driven collegiate world. And so I walked onto this field and, um, let's just say… I wasn't very good. I could run, but my stick skills- and I learned and I did everything, and it was great, and we went to the Final Four, but I was out at that point. So everybody always says I played three sports like, I was on the team. I was, you know, three sports at that level. I was done at that point and I stuck with soccer and hockey after my first year. But it was a really cool experience.

AJ: Well, a kudos, too, by the way, to go back to something you just said, that McCurdy asked what size state you are. Kudos to UNH for giving you guys skates back in the 80s. I didn't get skates in college until my senior year, which was the fall of 1998. That was the first time I got skates bought for me. So that's, that's pretty good on UNH, I give the Wildcats props.

Cammi: Well, Ellen, you know what? So, Russ, I actually- I was. I was the same, a kid coming from Illinois. So, such a similar story where nobody wanted to talk to me really, until someone saw me play when I went out to the East Coast, I just played with a girls’ team for one game and I got seen by Providence. Other than that, I called Russ. Same thing. No interest, but I got to say, Russ, and I know what he meant to you, when I look at all the coaches that I've been coached with, he coached us at the — at the ‘92 World Championships where you were named best defenseman of that tournament. He taught me a lot, not about, not just about hockey, but just like how to organize yourself off life, how to make your bed every day. Like, there's things that stuck with me from Russ from that one or two, I think, seasons we had him. He was a special guy, you know. You know, I just— he never gets any recognition. He's very unknown. But did you remember that about him? Do you have that same sort of view of him that I do?

Ellen: Totally. And I'm still really tight with him and Sheila. And, you know, when you think about it, for what he did as a male player, you know, in that generation, he was a heck of a hockey player. And then, I don't know what he did, but he left the game and did something, you know, I'm not really sure what he did and came back to the game, but for his stature to come back and coach the women and do what he did, and he coached tennis as well, and he cared so much. He was so passionate about the game, and teaching the game, and teaching away from the game. And he cared so much about the people, you as a person. And I always laugh because, you know, Quinn had Donnie, you know, your brother, at the NTDP. And he reminds me a lot of Donnie. I don't know if you feel that way, but-

Cammi: I totally feel that way because as you say, first of all, from a mental standpoint, they're both like, they help you so much with the side, the mental side, and also the skill based stuff that Russ taught us. He goes beyond the game and I feel, yeah, it's really interesting that you say that because I can see that as well.

Ellen: And it's just the, you know, some people have their skills and then some people like, have different skill sets. And I feel that the best of the best try to cover all the different skill sets and really get to know the different human being and try to push the buttons. And it doesn't work for everybody. Not everybody would feel that way, but he was an amazing man and still is an amazing man. And I also think it's funny because one thing that, you know, I don't know how you are with the kids, but this sticks with me. And I don't know if you remember this, Cammi, but the interesting thing is, I've seen my boys be taught that same lesson from coaches at a younger level, and I can particularly say the NTDP level is: get up every day and make your bed. You've accomplished one thing. Do you remember that from him? And then it was either Donnie-

Cammi: No! Always.

Ellen: Or Wroblewski that I remember had Quinn and Brady, like, make your bed every day. And then I saw with, with Jack and Luke. Like, “we got to make our bed every day because that's orderly” and like, little things like that.

Cammi: Well, I got to say, Ellen, that stuck with me for— still to this day, I think of Russ when I make my bed. I'm not kidding. And I tell the kids the same, like if you just… and it resonated with me. So like, I don't know, it stayed with me. It resonated with me when he said it. And then his… just his stuff about practicing skill. And we hadn't really done that so much, as an, I guess where we were at Providence. Like we would just go practice, but like, he was working on skill-based stuff. He’s a very smart man. So I'm happy to hear that you're still in touch with him and you felt the same way. But I love that we're both making our bed because of Russ McCurdy. You taught your kids that.

AJ: I obviously didn't have Russ, I obviously didn't have Russ McCurdy, you can see behind me in my hotel room here. So I do not make my bed every day. And I know the value of it, but yeah, no, never had a coach who told me that.

Cammi: He was pretty special.

Ellen: Then. AJ, I was thinking about when you said about getting skates. I don't know how you guys were, but how would your shot be today? Like when I was playing, like, of course I couldn't shoot the puck because we would take the old men's sticks that were wooden and they would cut them down for us. Like, how would I have any flex on the stick?

AJ: Right? Right. So stiff. And it's like, it's crazy when you think about that, and the technology. And even when I did get a pair of skates, when I came back after the Olympics and played at Harvard, they were so much lighter. They were just… the material and everything, and then you look at the sticks and it's crazy. I mean, I never played with the one piece that they have now, that was just coming out when I was at the tail end of my career. But I remember I tried them, but the puck was all bouncy and I didn't like them. But you think about how quick the release and all the kick point on those sticks, that technology's insane.

Ellen: Right? You also think about how great the women are and where they're at. Like we didn't go in the weight room. We did not go in the weight room. The weight room was not for women's sports.

AJ: Our coach actually, my first year at Harvard before Katie Stone took over, he actually thought weightlifting was unbecoming for women. He didn't, he didn't book us. He wouldn't let us go in weight room. It was a, it was sort of an off limits thing. So he was a lovely man. But it was… not appropriate.

Cammi: Well, our Providence College coach, John Marchetti, who I love, I have always loved him as a coach. We had to beg him to just get us to get in shape. He thought women, that was just the way it was at the time. He was old fashioned and women would skate from the blue line in, so we would have half ice practices. And I was like, “We're out of shape. Like we got to skate!” “You guys don't need to skate full ice.” And it was literally all great intentions. Wonderful man. But that's what he felt. And I mean, think about that. Like I tried- it blows people away to think that that was the way it was. But that's how we were viewed as women. We can't exert ourselves the same way as men. And we were begging him to.

Ellen: Okay, now I know why we won, then. Why we beat you? Because we skated. [unintelligible]

Cammi: You didn't. You didn't beat me. Did you beat me when I was there?

Ellen: I don't know.

Cammi: We won. We won. I think we went the last year. You remember freshman year. I think you beat us in the finals. I think we[...]

Ellen: I think we met four years. Was just super cool, but I only — I was there five years. Much shorter. One year. But we went three years.

Cammi: Okay? We went three years. So we must have crossed over. And you beat us once? Yeah, you beat us. Let's get into the hockey mom stuff because I think a lot of moms are interested in the landscape of sport. Our kids that are passionate about anything. And it typically it's like, well, we know the sports world, but I mean, nowadays it's, it's everything. Like, whether it's music or some sort of non-sport, a passion that someone has. We're always trying to get our kids to pursue excellence. And AJ and I have talked a lot on this podcast, how sometimes things are flipped a little backwards and we're a little bit out of skew right now with the way we push our kids and just how fast they're put through the system. And you had three boys that you raised with Jimmy, who are now… two are NHL superstars. One's on his way. How, what was it like in your house? How did it start with the kids? What were you like as a mom and Jimmy as far as like, having, cultivating that for them?

Ellen: You know, it all seems like a blur. You know how that is, right? You're in the middle of it, both of you with young kids. So you're just day to day. I mean, you're day to day, right?

Cammi: Survival.

Ellen: Right? It's survival mode. So for me, you do things that you enjoy or you- you teach them things that you feel like you can teach them, Right. So it's kind of a slight on me that I wasn't more worldly and wanting to take them to museums. Or maybe like I felt like I had do those things because like, ‘Oh my God, what am I teaching them?’ But you tend to do the things that you - you're trying to find activities. Jimmy was off coaching a lot, I had three young boys that were really close in age. So what do I know? What can I do to pass time and keep them active? It was kicking a soccer ball. It was throwing a ball, it was doing rollerblading, it was passing the puck, it was taking them skating. So for me, those were mommy and me activities, right? And then every once in a while I'd be like, you know, I'd be like, ‘uh, we got to do Kumon, we gotta do like - we gotta read.’

You know, academics was really important to me because I felt like I was so driven the other way that like, I didn’t want to miss out on the other. So for us, it was never this grandiose plan, and I'm sure you guys were the same way. It was more like, ‘be the best at whatever it is you're doing, work your hardest at whatever it is you're doing.’ Working the hardest didn't mean scoring the most goals. It was playing the right way, whatever it is, being a great teammate and working really, really hard and we always felt like the other would come.

AJ: Do you feel like with your boys having you as a mom, Jim as a dad, did they feel pressure to perform on the rink?

Ellen: I don't think so, because we never put pressure on them. We would put pressure on them to work hard and play the right way. I mean, there were days I can remember with Quinn when we moved to Toronto, we were like “Ah, he’s doing pretty good, he’s a pretty good little hockey player. This is good.” Like, hmm. And we were coming from New Hampshire and Jimmy taking the job up in Toronto and we got there and I remember Jimmy going somewhere and he's like, “He is not even in the top 300 players in the city.” Do you know what I mean? Like he was, this thing was not—

Cammi: Was that what age? What age is that?

Ellen: He probably would have been… I'm trying to think when we moved. So Luke was born six, seven, eight, maybe? He was in first grade. What grade are you in first grade?

Cammi: Yeah, about seven or seven. Seven.

Ellen: And we thought he was doing great, but we never cared. What we would just say to him, like, and he was on a good little team and we would get beat by Ryan McLeod, who just played with Edmonton in and, and, Strome was on that team, Matty Strome, the youngest of the Stromes. And those two were like, I mean, I mean, they would score five, six, seven goals and I would be in awe how good they were at a little age - at a young age. So what we would do is we would just put them up against the best in the spring and in clinics and have them chase, try to be the best you can be. It was never like, “why aren't you that good” or “why are you scoring” or - and, you know, Jack was a little bit different. He came in and he was playing up a year with the older kids, you know. And Luke, we didn't even think about, like, third child, he's probably benefited the best because we were just trying to get the other two other places and we didn't even know how he played or what happened. And, and I think that was the other thing with them. You know, Jim was so busy working that we didn't watch ‘em practice. We didn't, you know, I might drop one at a the game and try to get to the other one to the game, to get to the other one to the game. So they had to self evaluate at a young age and really decide how they played. You know, you guys are probably the same way with your busy schedules.

AJ: Yeah, it's interesting. I look at it like I'm at the Nationals right now with my daughter Jamie, and talking to some of the parents last night and they were asking me like, what did you think of the game? And we were talking about it. But they don't watch far more than I do because I travel. So, you know, they're asking me, knowing that I have a hockey background. But it's to your point, I love coming to watch my kids play, but I really feel like I can just watch them and enjoy. I'm not coaching this year and it's a really- it is fascinating because I do feel like my kids have sort of they'll tell me how they played and, you know, usually they're tougher on themselves. I mean, I think most kids or most athletes are probably tougher on themselves anyway. But when- like as a hockey parent, I'm surrounded by people and you see all the studies about the low percentage of players that will make it from youth hockey to even D-1, let alone the NHL. You have three kids, three boys, two that are gone first round. Luke obviously is on his way to the NHL. So at what point did you think they were going to make it? Like, was there a time like you're talking about when Quinn was seven and you guys were just trying to have them compete? But was there a moment where you were like, wow, our - our kids are legit?

Ellen: You know, there was a point where I said, All right, this is good. Like, they're going to get to Division one college hockey. Like, I was pretty pumped. And at the end of the day, there's a point where you say you can only provide so much information and now they have to have their inner drive. Now that's gotta kick in. And I think for each one of them, that was when they got to the program. So for junior hockey, I guess, would be the equivalent. And I think it's the every day focusing on getting better, doing I mean, living it, eating it, not liking it, loving it. Y’know? And there's kids who get better from 18 to 20. There's, you know, you got to keep getting better. Doesn’t matter if you're the best at 16 or 15. So I saw my kids take different paths, you know, and just staying to have fun and having fun. Having fun is everything, as you know. You know, I mean, it's got to be fun. I mean, Cammi, you have two sons who are elite little soccer players, but if they're not having fun, that changes their drive for wanting to get better.

Cammi: Fully and if it's not cultivated as well, I mean, you have to have the right people above you and leading you and coaching you to believe in just playing and not just playing for- to be this best. There's a lot of pressure on kids these days and I think about your boys and knowing your boys and, and getting to know Quinn better since he's been out here as a person. Your kids are such great people. They're so well-balanced. They're such they get it. Like when they met Reese and Riley, my sons, they get it. They look kids in the eye. They joke around. They look adults in the eye. I mean, there's- they're just great kids. The other thing I noticed about them and and before I let you comment is when they play, when things are not going their way, they go straight ahead, like there's no pouting, there's no emotion. I mean, of course, we get emotional about the game, but as far as like, you know, what you taught them, like, where did that come from, that confidence and that humility and then that just that drive inside to just keep going?

Ellen: Well, you are awfully kind. And, you know, it's like, up and down. You know how parenting is right. And, you know, for me, it's the competitiveness. You both were uber competitive, Olympians, got to the highest level, accomplished so much, gold medals. So you know, that competitiveness. So you instill that in your children. You don't realize that you're doing it, but it just organically happens. Right? I'm sure. And AJ I see some of the fun things that you do, but I'm sure it's competitive at dinner, whether it's, you know, Boggle that you're playing or - I aged myself. But you know what I mean? Or Jenga that you're playing or if it’s a race, or- everything is a game at my house! Like, Luke and Quinn this summer. We had a lot of time together and they're creating a game out of nothing in the pool. We're like - Jack and I are looking at each other like, ‘What are those two doing?’ Like, it's games and there's a winner and there's a loser. So for me, I think it's more about they really care about winning. They really want to win. And in everything’s a team sport and they wanna - They take it personally. They want to be the best that they can be to help their team win. You know, whether it's giving something up and feeling bad about that and wanting to get it back. And that's probably the same mindset both of you had as Olympians. Is that fair to say?

AJ: Yeah. I mean, I think that that is, you know, the ultimate drive to compete is something that I'm not sure can be cultivated. Right. I mean, I think you but what what is so impressive about your boys is that the balance that Cammi’s talking about. Right. That confidence and that drive to compete coupled with the humility and on seeing them being interviewed, seeing the way they carry themselves at a very young age, that that's what I think is, you know, you and Jim should be very, very proud of. But I do think that that drive to win and it's not win at all costs, but it's win whether it's the right way or as a part of the team. I think that that is something that can be very unique. And obviously they come from two very competitive elite athlete parents. So they were, they were given that at a young age. I was just reminded while you were- we were talking about Quinn, last year in the playoffs, do you remember getting a text from me Ellen, when I talked about in on the broadcast, I talked about Quinn, he was so relaxed playing the power play that it was like he was playing shinny hockey. S H I N N Y and I got blown up on Twitter that people thought I said he played S H I T T Y hockey. That I was like, ‘oh my God, the Hughes family hears me on NBC telling like’ and it was a compliment. I mean, it was like the utmost like, this is amazing how great he is that, you know, as a young player in the NHL playing with this sort of poise but also like freedom, he just plays with his freedom. And I'm sitting there thinking and my producer was like, “You can't use that term. That's such a hockey term.” Like, who doesn't know shinny hockey? But anyway, that was just so.

Ellen: So I laughed at that when I got your text and I think I wrote back like, “it's okay if you ever want to say he's saying the other - the S H hockey too.”

AJ: I would never say that.

Ellen: You know the game, you're allowed to say that and we would be just okay with it. We would probably agree with you.

Cammi: So when you're watching Ellen, when you get to watch your kids and I know I've texted you before, I'm like, I wonder if she's still up. But of course, you're watching the games when you're on the East Coast and you're watching them and watching the West Coast games, probably late at night. Right, with Quinn. And... can you relax? Like, are you feeling like now? Like you can relax? Is it still, like, feel intense? Like, what's the feeling that you get as a mom? You know, I know Luke’s on his way, but like, do you get to see you get to enjoy it all? Do you get to sit back and enjoy it?

Ellen: Let me ask you this. When you watch Riley play and it's a big game and [unintelligible], how do you feel?

Cammi: So do you feel like at every game - do you feel like that every game?

Ellen: Well, your logic tells you it should change.

Cammi: Yeah.

Ellen: But I think it's just your competitiveness. But I can tell you this. Now my oldest two are at a level where I don't get involved in the hockey anymore, I just really try to be a support system. They don't need to hear from me when they get to the next level. You don't know how many people are badgering them or bothering them or sending texts[?]. And you know, they got here because this point, they got here and they're driving their own business. They don't need to hear from me. Now, do they… Do they lean on Jimmy with hockey? Do I know a lot about hockey? But I just need to be a different support system for them. You know, I need to be an outlet for them and someone that's not going to talk about hockey unless it's something specific. Does that make sense? Like when I talked to Quinn today, it wasn’t about last night's game. It was about other things, you know, he's got enough of last-

Cammi: That makes sense.

Ellen: And he's got this - he doesn't need to hear from his mother, that that ship has sailed. Does that make sense? And I don't mean that in a negative st-

Cammi: Totally, because.

Ellen: It's just that's not what they need and, and that's not what I want to be that - be there for them. That type of support system.

AJ: I don't know how you got away without having one of them play goalie. I'm just going to leave it out there.

Ellen: Well, Luke. [...] Luke in net. and I was telling this to someone the other day, I mean, I got funny stories, like when you say, oh, you guys were great parents. I'm like, Oh, really? Like the time I showed up for this massive tournament with Jack and Jimmy's taken everybody's skates sharpened and I got everybody’s skate sharpened and he was off somewhere. I was going to meet him at the university. I'll tell you one story. So this is just typical. So their cousin was playing for B.C. and we wanted to go to a college game because we want to expose these kids that were growing up in Toronto to what college hockey was, so that that could be an option. So we took ‘em to see B.C. versus Michigan, their big cousin. We're driving down and Jack had this massive tournament, which we thought was massive as a you know, you always think these youth tournaments are massive and have grandiose importance, sorry, because you are at nationals and that is important with your daughter AJ. So Jimmy had said, I think Quinn was going to play in Michigan. And I said, okay, I'll bring the boys down I’ll get the skates sharpened and then Jack and I will leave after the game. We won't tell his coach that, like, we're getting into a hotel in London at one in the morning to drive around- around the lake to get to Buffalo for his 9 a.m. game. So I'm driving to Michigan first so he can see his cousins. And then whereas all the other parents are in Buffalo for that 9 a.m. game spending the night getting a good sleep right. Well I let him come watch his brother play. I left two hockey bags with Jim, of Luke's bag and Quinn's bag and I, Jack and I left after the game. We got into London at like one in the morning. We went to sleep. We got back up at six and off he goes for his game. When we get to Buffalo, I'm like, ‘This is great. I did it.’ And they're playing. I think they're playing Shattuck St Mary's and Oliver Wahlstrom is on the other team just to give you a few names. Right. So because he's an Islander, right AJ?

AJ: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Had a goal last night.

Ellen: And it was a non parent coach. So you don't talk to these coaches. I don't think I had a conversation with them and they're young they’re- I don’t know Jack was an underager so he's playing up a year. And so the coach calls me. He's like, “ Umm... We've got a problem. Can you come back to the locker room?” So I go back to the locker room and he goes, “Ummm Luke skates are in Jack's bag.” You know what that means? Where are Jack’s skates? In Luke’s bag or God knows where, right? So I'm like, agh and they're like, “Where are Luke’s skates?” And like, I think he - I left his bag in Toronto. So at this point. So I look at Jack, I'm like, “What you want to do?” and he goes, “Find [buy?] me some skates.” and I'm like, “Okay, what size are your skates?” So I go around, I find the Chicago mission, and if he was in CCM some guy had a Bauer of a size four and a half or five or six or whatever he was in, and they're like, You can borrow these skates, but our game is offset from yours so you can only play until we need the skates back.

Cammi: Oh my God.

Ellen: Right?

AJ: I'm like, my stomach's dropping listening to this. I know.

Ellen: So he’s in these random skates and sorry to go off on a tangent here, but you saying you were great, You know, we do the same things that everybody else does. So it wasn't a completely tightly run ship. So. But maybe that's the adaptability. So Jack goes out and he plays two great periods, and all of a sudden I see this guy walk around and you see them take Jack's skates off. And this is a tight game and it's a big tournament. And he sits on the end of the bench with no skates for the third period. So here you are. We both have - we all have husbands. So Jimmy’s like, “How was the game?” I'm like, “He played great for two periods and let's just leave it at that.” He's like, I was. [unintelligible] But so anyway.

AJ: Yeah, I think that's building resilience. I think you're right. There is something to be in moment. It's- that's the worst feeling possible. But in retrospect, it's a great story, right? And it's one period of hockey that-

Ellen: [unintelligible] five like that running down the coach whenever Jack's hockey bag and his helmet was sideways like, I hope you guys have stories like that.

Cammi: Oh, man. You know what is funny is, those- that's just part of sport and part of the life where you have that happen. But I do as a kid, remembering, feeling like there was nothing more important. And I remember my brother Tony had just got his license. He was driving me over to a friend's house that was going to take me to an away game. It was about 45 minutes away. He went through a stop sign with just skated through a stop sign, hit the front of another car. I'm in the front seat. No seatbelt at that time. Right. And the first thing he goes, “You okay?” and the first thing I said is, “I'm not going to miss my game, am I?” And sure enough, we had to drive home. Somehow we got home. My mom is pregnant with my younger brother Joey, eight months pregnant, and I somehow cried my way into making my mom get in our trans van massive truck with Tony in the passenger seat, driving through snow to get me to the game, which I got there in the third period. But it was to me it was like, I know that feeling like it's- you cannot miss, you cannot. And I see with my kids too. So yeah, those are the best. Some of those are the best memories actually, right?

Ellen: I'll give you one.

AJ: We spent about five and a half hours driving down here to Philadelphia. My daughter, I think, checked nine times to make sure her stuff was in the bag because I had to. She was at school and I had to get it. She does not trust me at all. I'm like, okay, yeah, you just make sure you got two- a right and a left skate in there.

Ellen: I'll give you one last story. To just - to say, like, like here I am, a hockey mom, thinking I’m going to teach my kids to skate. So when Jimmy was coaching in Boston with Robbie Ftorek, I didn't have Luke yet, so Jack... Quinn must've been three. So I wanted to have some one-on-one time. You know, with your first child, you feel like you have your second child and you just need some one-on-one time. So there was free kindergarten skating at the Reading arena. And so we were living in.. in uh.. oh my god I can’t even remember - right around the corner from there. So anyway, so every Tuesday I would take Quinn to skate and that's how he learned to skate. Like it wasn't like I was teaching him strides, I was teaching him to skate. I was getting him on skates. So I was really proud of this kid. He’d gotten off his crates that he was pushing and blah, blah, blah, blah. And at that point Robbie's parents were still alive. Steve and Ruth and they were amazing. And we would go to the games and, and so they didn't live far from there. So they wanted to come watch little Quinn that they see at the Bruins games skate. And I was so proud that I’d taught this kid to skate y’know, he was standing up on his own, he was pushing, the whole bit. So Steve comes out who had taught Robbie how to skate and Robbie was a great skater and I'm like this particular day, Quinn is terrible. He must have been three. Like he just looked like he had two left feet. I’m like, “he's not skating like, I swear, like he could skate, like, something's not right.” And Steve goes, “Ellen, I think his skates are on the wrong feet.” And they were! Do you know how little skates are? Yeah. How would you know? Like [unintelligible]. So we laugh about that story. So, Quinn doesn't know. He can't communicate to tell me that his skates are on the wrong feet. We sit him down, like literally in the doorway. We switch his feet and off this kid goes. And he's pushing and like a little three year old and he's doing great. So that's one of my many [unintelligible] stories.

AJ: But just to make you feel better, I did that to my son Sam, when he was however old, probably five. We went skiing. It was ski boots on the wrong feet. He kept telling us his feet hurt. And we basically were like, You're fine. It's just ski boots they hurt. And the end of the day I was like, Oh yeah, no, they really hurt. That's actually a legitimate point. So been there!

Cammi: Before we wrap up here and get to our rapid fire, I just wanted to ask you about the couple of times where I've seen the boys play tog- Well they played together on the World Junior team and it was in Vancouver. Jack and Quinn played together. What was that like and what was it like when they played their first NHL game toge- against each other for the Jersey Devils and for the Vancouver Canucks? Can you take us through those two times and what it felt like?

Ellen: Yeah, that's great. I mean, the- we had the fortune of them playing together at the World Junior Showcase up in Kamloops the summer before, leading up, kind of the tryouts. So I think that was my first experience. It was great. It was great. Really competitive. They played together. They were on the same PP that was a ton of fun. They were on the ice together a lot. Then the World Juniors that- in Vancouver, that was great too. But Jack was injured, so he was kind of in and out of the lineup, but it was just really great for them to be able to, as- they're so tight, they're best of friends, all three of them. So I think it was more letting them have that experience together and you know, you're disappointed for them in the way that the outcome was because they were so close to winning a gold medal. But it was super cool. It was a lot of fun. And then when they played against each other it was super special, I think for our family, just because it was the first time we got to share something like that with our whole family, we had a huge crew there. The Devils were nice enough, they were amazing. They had a box there and we were able to have all Jim's extended family there from the Northeast, which is a huge group of people. And Jack happened to score his first goal that night. So that was a relief and great and exciting. And then the next time they played together Cammi we went with you. You had the boys and Ray, and that was a great game, too, right? That was a lot of fun. I think the biggest thing is I like it better when they're not on the ice at the same time, especially with one being a D and one being a forward. I prefer, and it's hard to watch them. I don't know who you guys are, but AJ, your daughter right now at Nationals, is a stay at home defenseman so you watch all the D and you have a good feeling. It's really hard to watch two positions let alone two teams play.

AJ: I agree with that when I think about what you're, what you went through, with that and it's not even allegiance of which team you want to win. It's more what they're doing individually and you can't focus. I think that must have been so cool. Was there added pressure on the boys? Did you notice any nerves that night playing against each other?

Ellen: No, but I don't know what kind of side bets there were. Like. I'm going to need [unintelligible] Haha I could have used a girl so I could get a little more information, a daughter y’know they’re a little more forthcoming. I think it was exciting. They were both very young. I mean, it's crazy to think they entered their rookie year together. I think as they, y’know, hopefully have a really long, sustained career. That's your greatest hope for all of these players that play in the professional sports is to be able to stay healthy and have a long, sustained careers. So I think as they age and- it'll be more and more fun to watch it evolve.

AJ: Now we're talking about Quinn and Jack. Is there. Do you think that there's added pressure on Luke right now because of the successes that his brothers have had?

Ellen: You know, it's funny because I always worried about that with Luke, like, you know, as a parent, you know, I want them to all be successful in their own right. I want them all to have their own passion. I want them to care about school and do well in school and so, you know, you're always like, which one needs what someone will, you know, whatever it is you want to try to support them. And so Luke was really small for a while and he was playing against kids that had already hit puberty. And- and you know, I know you dealt with that Cammi with Riley and then he took off and he blew them like his whole game was a new you know, as soon as that- the playing field was evened. And that's a hard thing to try to nurture them through, you know, like, “just keep going” and “it's okay,” and “you’re gonna have your man strength,” and “you’re gonna have more separation speed because of that,” so Luke was really young and I mean, it took him a while before he grew. And so I wondered in my heart, like, is there pressure on him? Does he feel bad about himself? Like, I didn't know, you know what I mean? So then he made the program, which he just kind of started to take off.

Never in a million years did I think he was going to be 6’2” like you could’ve- I would never. I mean, he was who would have thought he was going to tower over his brothers? He was so late. So we used to talk to him about it, you know, and I used to try to ask, but it's hard to get information. But he drove his own bus and he had his own inner desires and his own inner strengths. And it never seemed to faze him or bother him, which, you know, was- we tried to communicate about it like you guys would as parents.

Cammi: It's so wonderful. I just love your whole family. I love everything you guys have instilled in your boys. I love watching them. We're such you know, we've grown so much closer. We get to see each other more often. And I just yeah, I commend you and totally appreciate all the insight that you've given us today. We've kept you a long time on, but we have our not so rapid, rapid fire, if you don't mind answering some rapid fire questions you can answer ‘em slow or fast. It's up to you. AJ and I seem to go the slow way sometimes with our long questions. But let's put you in the hot seat.

AJ: So, yeah, this means you're coming to the front of the bus. So I don't know if that in the bus or trips that you went on that meant you were in trouble. But I'll say that just.

Ellen: Time out before you go. Where were you guys on the bus?

Cammi: I was in the back on the right, about maybe three seats from the bathroom, two or three seats from the bathroom, and AJ was up front.

AJ: I was more like middle, but on the other side. So it was like.

Cammi: You were like two rows ahead. Yeah. Yeah, where were you?

Ellen: Cammi. I think I was right where you were.

Cammi: Yeah. Okay

AJ: Not quite far enough back for, like, all the crazy card games and everything like that, right? That was always our bus. There was a lot of shenanigans in the way back of the bus. Actually maybe our rapid fire should be called Go to the back of the bus. That might be a little I don't know, might be a little different. All right. So here we go. Let's start. What is your favorite youth hockey, or any sports since you played a lot of sports, memory?

Ellen: Probably winning the national championship with the Dallas Sting in soccer, which still today is one of the premier club teams in the country.

AJ: Oh, that's a good one. How old were you?

Ellen: I was probably 15. And then one other thing is we went to China when I was 15. That was a pretty cool experience. Before women's soccer had a national team and they were playing, they were having their first international tournament. And since we had won the club championship they sent us, which is amazing to think they sent a bunch of women to China to play in an international tournament. You know.

AJ: That’s very cool.

Cammi: How’d you guys do?

Ellen: We won it.

Cammi: You're kidding.

Ellen: There's actually someone that's trying to, I just get the emails, that’s trying to make a movie about it, because it's pretty unheard of.

Cammi: It's amazing.

AJ: That is amazing. So we didn't really get into this. The one thing we were carrying our time up for is that you had the good fortune of having all of your boys home during COVID. Maybe a silver lining to what was going on in the world. Everybody got to be back under one roof. But when everyone's home, what's your go to family dinner?

Ellen: Oh, our go to family dinners, steak. They are all about steak. So steak and pesto pasta with a spinach salad is the go to. They would eat steak every night.

AJ: Oh, that sounds good.

Ellen: Cammi, Quinn’s cooking [?]. Believe it or not, [unintelligible]. When they're allowed to go places next year in Vancouver over you and Ray should-

Cammi: I can keep him honest for that?. Yeah, I know I will definitely. If I know that now. What is he cooking in these?

Ellen: Cooking steak and lots of he cooks some, tuna ahi tuna and lots of peppers and veggies and that's a good thing about COVID. Is that most of these young kids have learned to cook, which is amazing.

AJ: That is amazing. That's actually that is another- that's a good silver lining. I know. Speaking of your three boys, Quinn, Jack and Luke, which one was most mischievous as a kid.

Ellen: And I mean, you know how it is, it's a three month cycle like, just like one needs your attention more than the other when they were little. But um… Quinn and Jack together? This is not rapid fire, but I can remember when they were really level and I don't know. And I've already taken up too much of your time. But I remember Jimmy had taken off to Toronto and, oh no, then he must have been littler than this and Jimmy and I, Luke was just born, maybe six months old, and we heard this rustling. You know, you have that in the baby room, on the other room. And I don't know if this has happened to either one of you. And I'm like, it was like six in the morning. You're trying to get sleep, and I heard something. I mean, “Jimmy, what is that?” You know, So we listen to the voice and they had this grandiose idea that they were going to throw the baby out of the crib, Jack was inside the crib, picking up Luke to hand him off to Luke- to Quinn, who wasn't big enough, it was going tobe a drop outside the crib. So let's just leave with that. Right?

Cammi: How old were they? How old were they when that happened?

Ellen: Luke was under one because he couldn't get out, right? I mean, it was not a great plan. Then. Thankfully, we rescued them.

Cammi: So if you would have had that nanny cams that are the baby cams, that would have been brilliant to have that on video.

Ellen: Right.

AJ: Good. Some Hughes boy mischief. I like it. Now, of the three, who is the most competitive?

Ellen: Probably, I don't, I can't.

Cammi: Can’t choose, you’re a mom.

AJ: Yeah no I actually we were just talking about the drive to win and everything. I understand that. But it's all three, I guess. Now we you, you mentioned being nervous still, when you watch your boys play, what can you remember being the most nervous you've ever been as a sports parent?

Ellen: Mmm that's a tough one. Probably for me, it's not about the kids. It was more about the team. So, you know, having your kids go through the NTDP you want them to win these big tournaments. So you’re nervous for the group because you want so well, they're representing their country so the World Championships, the World Juniors, I mean, Cammie, you've sat with me and seen me between periods at the World Juniors, so that might be a fair one you can attest to, like, you're like, Really? You probably walk away from meeting with the boys between periods and me. Like, she's a little wacky over there. I don't know.

Cammi: Oh, they love you.

Ellen: You're stressed. Not for your kids. You're stressed for the team in your country. And you want so well, you want them to win! Their competitive side and they're tight. And you’re just on the edge of your seat. More like a fan, I would say, than a mother. So much too. Is that fair to say?

AJ: Yeah. Did you ever coach any of them?

Ellen: Yeah,

AJ: I think they're so close in age. You. Oh, you did?

Ellen: Yeah. So I coached them in soccer. I coached them in lacrosse, but they played box lacrosse. I didn't coach them in hockey. They would do a lot of spring hockey. What I would do is get on the I would just buy outdoor ice like and I would run the skates. But when I say I would run the skates is, I would get out of the way. I would turn the nets. Three on three, three on three, three on three, no direction, just let them. And then it was more, you know, just playing, like the environment, the competitors setting up the competitive- competitive mini games. So that type of stuff as extras.

AJ: The last question we have for you is what advice would you have to hockey parents out there or what kind of motto did you guys, would you say you followed?

Ellen: You know, who gave us really good advice, especially as they got older were Keith and Chantal Tkachuk. They were amazing role models for us. Quinn was fortunate enough to live with them and, and Keith always. They always said it, just be a great teammate, be a great human being, great- be a great person and work hard, be one of the hardest working. Get out there and have fun. You know, I know it's easy to say, but there's so many great things you can do in this life. There's so many greater things you can do in this life. You know, you find your passion, find lots of passions and be you and follow your heart in whatever it is that your [passion is like, live it, eat it, drink it and be it. I mean, I think those are the same advice that both of you as past Olympians give your own children.

Cammi: That's wonderful.

AJ: That is, that's awesome. And you are so awesome. I love hearing the sort of inside scoop from the first family of hockey, the Hughes family, and everybody's favorite hockey mom, Ellen Hughes. But at the same time, I love also taking that little walk down memory lane to make sure everybody remembers what a stud you are.

Ellen: Well, I so appreciate it. And I'm having so much fun listening to you two on your podcast. It's amazing what you're doing. I think you're amazing human beings. You both know how I feel about you and my admiration for what you've done for the women's game and what you're still doing in the game of hockey is so cool and you're both trailblazers. And I love this podcast and I love the guests that you have on. I take myself out of that like I don't fit in the realm of guests.

AJ: Yes, yes you do.

Ellen: I'm just saying that in the heart of hearts, I love the guests you've had on, and keep rocking it. You two are amazing and I'm lucky to have you as friends. And AJ, I laugh. I think about watching you at the Olympics and Cammi and I already had a relationship because we played together. And then I think about you today. And it's incredible.

AJ: And you are. I do remember you paved the way for us, but I do. I'm glad. I think you're buttering us up just in case I say, I will say anything negative about your sons on the ice, which so far I haven't had to because they're such superstars. But, you know, don't hold it against me if I do.

Ellen: You know, And then and hopefully things will get back to normal and we'll be traveling and I'll see you guys one day.

Cammi: Well, Ellen, thank you so much for being here. We were so happy you joined us and we'll have to have you on again at some point. And when the whole quarantine is over, well, I'll be looking forward to when you come to watch Quinn in Vancouver here.

#thank you to leo without whom this would just be sitting unfinished in my google drive for eternity #ellen weinberg-hughes #jack hughes #quinn hughes #luke hughes #transcript

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flamebringer0 · 7 months

Text

About the Ending of Darkness of Dragons

Everyone has a take about this, right? Well, here's mine. I'm kind of late to the party since I was forcibly inducted into the Wings of Fire fandom just last Thursday, but that's fine. This will probably be kind of long and rambling and maybe not even that interesting to anyone but me. Sorry about that, but I'm really writing it more to work through my thoughts than anything else.

I find Darkstalker to be a very compelling character. I'm not going to bother trying to explain why I find him interesting, because it's irrelevant and would also be longer than this entire post. I feel like I have to clarify, though, that it's not because I think he's a good guy. He's obviously a pretty awful guy. I mean, I thought it was obvious, but I guess there's actually a significant contingent of people who say Darkstalker did nothing wrong. Apparently many people see him as some kind of misunderstood heroic figure, or at least a morally gray one. I find that to be a fully silly and indefensible position. You can talk all day about how abusive Arctic was, but you can't pile a tower of mitigating circumstances high enough to explain away genocide.

Anyway, he's my favorite character in Wings of Fire. He's one of my favorite characters period. And I really would have liked it if my favorite character had had a satisfying narrative arc, with a climax that appropriately, uh... that is to say, a climax that was appropriate in any way. For example, it would have been pretty good if Kinkajou had killed him.

But in fact she did not kill him; she forcibly polymorphed him into a baby. As noted by everyone who has ever read the books, this is a stunningly odd thing to have your hero do at the end of a quintet of novels whose most consistent theme is that it's wrong to force someone to be something they aren't. I'm sure this is well-trodden ground at this point, but I just-- I can't figure it out. The narrative is very clear up until this point that this is a very bad thing to do. In fact, I think mind controlling someone is all-but-explicitly presented by the books as a worse thing to do than killing them. That's probably a questionable position in and of itself, but I swear it is the position taken by the text.

In Moon Rising, Moonwatcher finds out that Darkstalker killed Arctic, and she's still willing to hear him out about how that might have been justified and maybe it would be fine to let him out of the ground. But in Escaping Peril she finds out he also mind controlled Arctic, and her reaction is much more severe. She's in tears, she declares it "the cruelest thing I’ve ever read", and she decides she can never let him out. Nothing else has changed about Moon's knowledge of Darkstalker and Arctic's relationship; the only new information she has is that Darkstalker used mind control. The narrative never seems to treat this like a contradiction or a weird quirk of Moon's personality, so I think it's a belief the author also holds coming through in her writing. Mind control is worse than killing. And then suddenly it isn't, and erasing Darkstalker's mind and turning him into an entirely different dragon is presented as a happy ending for everyone, including Darkstalker.

The only explanation I can come up with for this is that she wrote herself into a corner by making her villain omnipotent and invincible, and therefore impossible to stop without comprehensively incapacitating him. I surmise that the only way she could come up with to do that was to turn him into someone else, and so that's what she had to have happen, even though it clashed violently with the theme. But I have a better idea: just kill him. He's terrible! He deserves it!! It would have been satisfying to see him die after everything he did, and it wouldn't have dropped this bizarre dissonant note at the end of five books of consistent messaging.

It turns out the difficult part there is actually the "he deserves it" bit. Because, astonishingly, it seems the author of Wings of Fire is also in the category of people who think Darkstalker wasn't so bad after all. Apparently, Tui T Sutherland said at a release event for The Lost Continent, "I didn’t want to kill Darkstalker, because he didn’t deserve it [...]". This is a very interesting way to put it. She didn't say that nobody deserves to be killed. Apparently there's some bar he could have cleared to deserve death, and he didn't. But what can one actually do to merit death if genocide isn't enough? Well... I just don't know. I wasn't hatched in the light of a full moon, so I can't read her mind and tell you the answer. I'm just going to have to move on. Here's the full quote I excerpted above, along with the question that prompted it:

There is a theme across Arc 2 of Wings of Fire that seems to suggest forcing dragons to become something else via magic is wrong (Peril, Hailstorm/Pyrite, Anemone forcing Kinkajou to love Turtle, etc). However, the second arc ended with Kinkajou forcing Darkstalker to become Peacemaker against his will. How did you feel about writing that, since it seems to clash with your theme? I didn’t want to kill Darkstalker, because he didn’t deserve it and that felt like a cop out (plus, it was supposed to be impossible). I wanted a surprising and authentic end for these characters. One of the main themes I wanted to emphasize was that most dragons, like Peril, deserve a second chance at becoming a better dragon. Darkstalker needed to have everything erased in order to get that second chance. I did think a lot about how the theme was subverted by this ending though, and it’s very valid to be concerned about that. But, there was no other way to ‘save’ him.

(source)

There's something else that's weird to me about this quote, which is... do we really think that what happened to Darkstalker was not death? His mind was completely and permanently wiped by magic. He had "everything erased", word of god. Peacemaker apparently doesn't share any of Darkstalker's memories, personality, feelings or opinions. In what sense is Darkstalker not dead, then? Is it his soul? Whenever the word soul comes up in Wings of Fire it seems to be metaphorical. It's not clear that Darkstalker had a soul in a literal sense, let alone that Kinkajou didn't erase that too. Animus magic is apparently of infinite power, there's no reason to think it can't rewrite someone's soul. I guess his body still exists, sort of, but if that's enough to say that Darkstalker is still around, I think you could make a pretty strong argument that anyone who has ever eaten a steak is in fact a cow.

I think this gets at the heart of what bothers me so much about the ending. Darkstalker... actually did die, just like I wanted him to. Which is fine, actually. Contrary to what the author thinks, he completely deserved it. But what makes it ridiculous and unsatisfying is that it happens via this weird magical get out of jail free card where they kill him without "killing" him. Aren't there moral complexities to killing someone, no matter how much they deserve it or how much better it makes everything? Shouldn't we... talk about that? Well, apparently we don't need to talk about it, or think about it. We can just use magic to change the name of what we're doing away from "killing", without substantially changing its nature.

And it drives me even crazier that the more I think about it, even this nonsensical juke of an ending feels so ripe with interesting questions of its own, which are just glossed over. Isn't it interesting that Moon killed her first friend, that Hope killed her own son, and that neither of them ever have to face the fact that that's what they did? Do they even know? Do they suspect it? Isn't it interesting that Peacemaker came into the world as some kind of magical quasi-dragon whose only reason to exist is to make sure someone else can't? Did anyone stop to think what it would be like for him to grow up like that? How will he deal with the fact that he's surrounded by dragons who half think that one day he might pull off his face and let Darkstalker out again? Does Darkstalker still have loyalists who want that to happen? Wouldn't it be interesting to hear Hailstorm's thoughts on this? What about Ruby's? Fierceteeth's? Isn't it interesting that Darkstalker sat under the mountain trying to convince Qibli that it was better to use magic to change a dragon against their will than to kill them, and Qibli said "no, no, no" and then turned around and did just that? How would Winter feel about the fact that after he bared his heart to Qibli and Moon about how awful it was to ever do something like that, they did it without a second thought? How can they call themselves Winter's friends while they're keeping something like that from him??

Maybe I'm the only one who thinks those are interesting questions. Tui T Sutherland certainly doesn't seem to. It would seem that she wants us to believe that Darkstalker is now going to have a wonderful life in the rainforest as Peacemaker, magically shorn of everything that makes him himself. And that's good, because Darkstalker can be forgiven for committing genocide, and so he didn't actually deserve to die. He just deserved to have his entire self obliterated by infinite magic, which is different from dying. Different in a way that was all-but-explicitly stated to be worse, until it was better. And this will never cause any problems for anyone.

I don't know what else to say. It almost makes me dizzy to think about it. I wish I knew how to write this story.

#this one isn't really a headcanon #not sure what else to tag it though #wings of fire #wof #wof darkstalker #darkstalker #wof peacemaker #peacemaker

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sex-obsessed-lesbian · 4 months

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The Tale of SOL's Highly Mediocre First Hypnokink Play Partner

CW: mediocre consent practices.

I realized that I posted this on Twitter but never on here, so for anyone who hasn't heard this one before, buckle up for the story of SOL'S Highly Mediocre First Hypnokink Play Partner!

It's the fall after i graduated college, I’m starting to dabble in the scene, I’ve found hypno tumblr and am like “omg this thing I’ve always fantasized about is REAL and people actually use it for SEX???”, and I go to a nearby university's kink group meetup about hypnokink.

As part of the class we pair up and try some stuff. I pair w/ this guy—a college senior, he’s actually tranced to files etc. so he knows a bit more than me at this point about how this works IRL. He does a perfectly middling progressive relaxation induction on me.

I say “Oh okay i think i see how this works” and proceed to ZONK him because like, I'm a good top and have good instincts (and also improv training).

And after that, we proceed to meet up a few times as practice partners—I still live with my parents so I come over to his dorm and he exiles his roommate (Jesus Christ i thought I’d be done with this shit when I graduated).

So the problem with this situation is that I never got a proper pretalk or explanation of what trance did/n't feel like, what hypno could/n't do or make you do, how safety and agency work... So I was both SO WORRIED about doing things against my will or losing control, AND SO WORRIED about it not working on me, that i was unhypnotizable and couldn't do the thing. I can’t realllly blame him, he was as new as I was, but it was… not a great situation.

The thing I CAN blame him for was when I was said “I don’t want any triggers” and he was like “aww come on a reinduction trigger would make it so much easier” and kept wheedling me about it. Not a good look.

(OFC part of the reason he really wanted a reinduction trigger was because he (like me, at the time) only knew how to do 10-minute progressive relaxation inductions, lolsob.)

And I think both times we got together I was like “Dude I’m a lesbian, I'm here for kink practice and I don’t want to kiss or get physical with you” and then at the end he’d be like “Waah I want to kiss you!!”

Against my better judgement I went along with it cuz like, we’d just been doing hours of kinky shit and I was turned on, but like. Surprise surprise, I'm a lesbian. (Also he... wasn’t all that good a kisser. Shocker, that.)

The kicker is, after the second time this happens, he texts me to say “So i just found out i have mono” like SIR I DID NOT EVEN WANT TO BE KISSING YOU AND NOW YOU HAVE MAYBE GIVEN ME MONO???

He did NOT give me mono, turned out I already had antibodies, and I didn’t ever play with him or see him again, so it’s mostly a happy ending but like… bruh.

But on a more serious note, I... still carry some of that baggage with me. (Though obvi this is nothing compared to many people's genuinely traumatic or abusive first hypno/kink experiences and i don't wanna take away from that!)

Never having gotten a real pretalk, going into my first trance experiences so scared (in both directions), feeling like a """bad subject""" (b/c he wasn't great at dropping me AND b/c I didn't feel comfy with him)... has really stuck with me, unfortch.

I am still unlearning that stuff, and so thankful to all the FAR, FAR SUPERIOR hypnotists who have helped me in this journey. It's also why I'm waging a holy war against people who use the term "bad subject" or don't give proper pretalks.

No one should feel uncomfortable when exploring this kink! (Or like, as non-uncomfortable as possible.) I hope it's a joyous thing for as many folks as possible! And that's why I have SO many thoughts about pretalk and framing for new subjects (see e.g. my class notes on Setting Your Subjects Up for Success).

So ummmm uhh thanks for coming to my TED talk, treat your partners right and don't try to kiss people who've explicitly told you not to kiss them, there are more kinds of inductions than just progressive relaxation, stay hydrated! <3

🦈 FIN 🦈

#true stories #true story #stories from SOL's life #thinking about kinking #look y'all comfort and trust are soooo important #i just want everyone to have a good and sexy time

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purplegirl20 · 6 months

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Surprise

Pairing: Damian Priest x Self-Insert (Me), along with judgment day

Summary: The Judgement Day decide to surprise me after not seeing me for several months.

Warning: None

Tagging: :@ghoulsister1 @omg-im-such-a-masochist @sparkleva95 @alicejoaquin1990 @vintage-pvssy @ashkrystal @theworldofotps @nyc-kyra-93 @ziasaph @priestparty @queenzay @sultryfandoms @auburnwrites @windhamsrotunda@rheaanddamianfan@theclawdeen1442@tmt-77@blueberryomega@ironshamelessyouth@lisashield @sparklykryptonitequeen91 @claymoresofinfamy23

Note: Sorry for the very long hiatus. I've been dealing with studying to get my nursing license and now I'm back. I hope you enjoy my oneshot.

October 18th:

It' was a chilly Wednesday afternoon. The Judgement day was eating together at a local dinner.

Damian: It's good to reclaim our titles.

Finn: I know right. Finally back home. Their real home.

Rhea smiled as Dominik was munching on his chicken tenders.

Rhea: By the way, What's happens with your girlfriend lately? We haven't from her in a while.

Damian: Oh. She's out of town. She been dealing with her family. Apparently both her mom and her dad caught COVID and been dealing with taking care of them.

Rhea: Damn. Doesn't she have siblings that will help her?

Damian: She does, but both of them live out of state and she's the only one that lives in the same state as her parents. It like a 3 hours drive for her.

Rhea and Finn: What?!

Finn: Is she the oldest?

Damian: Middle child.

Finn and Rhea:(groans) Ah. Middle child syndrome.

Dominik:(mouth full) Middle child syndrome?

Rhea: Dom! Don't speak with your mouth full.

Dominik:(mouth full) Sorry Mami.

Damian: Yea. She basically had been busy taking care of their needs. She barely talk to me because of this. She does small talks via text.

Dominik: Wow. She have alot of her plate. Does she have a good relationship with her parents?

Damian: It's normal. Although her parents are strict. She kind of quiet and socially awkward because of that.

Dominik: How strict are her parents?

Damian: A lot stricter than any parents in a typical Latino home. I mean they wouldn't let her celebrate Halloween. Or let go out to parties while she growing up.

Dominik: Holy shit! None?

Rhea: Now, that you think about it. The few times that I interact with her, she sometimes have problems with eye contact.

Dominik: Really?

Rhea: Remember, on her birthday last year and during the induction ceremony back in April, she sometimes don't look at us.

Dominik: Huh. I didn't notice it.

Damian: She kind of a homebody. She would rather stay home, watching cartoons, anime or play on her phone.

Rhea: Wow.

Finn: That's crazy.

Damian: Yea. I sometimes has to gently push her out of her comfort zone, from time to time.' It sometimes works, but she get overstimulated after a little while.

(Phone vibrating)

He quickly looks up at his phone and see my name on the phone.

Damian:(gasp) It's her.

He quickly picks his phone.

Damian: Shaynell. Mija. My chocolate cake! How are you? I miss you so much.

Shaynell: Hi Bunuelos. I miss you. I'm sorry for not talking to you that much for the last several months. I've been dealing with my own family affairs.

Damian: It fine, Mija. I miss you so much.

Shaynell: I miss you too.

Damian: What are you doing now?

Shaynell: I'm actually driving on my way home. I have at least 2 hours to go.

Damian: Wow. Really?

Shaynell: Yea. After 5 long months, dealing with family, I finally get to arrive home.

Damian: Aw. Don't worry baby. When you come back, I'm going to spoil you rotten?

Shaynell: You promise?

Damian: I promise.

Shaynell: Alright. I love you. Bye.

I quickly hangs up the phone.

Damian: Alright. I have 2 hours to surprise. I'll need your help.

Rhea: Of course. We'll always here to help. Right guys?

Finn and Dominik nods their head in agreement.

Damian: Perfect.

Dominik: Can I least like 2 more orders of chicken tenders and fries, please?

Rhea, Finn, Damian: DOM!

2 hours later...

Shaynell:(sighs) Finally! I'm home! 5 months of being away. I know my fridge has expired food already. I need to clean the fridge and order some groceries when I get home.

I turned the engine of my car and parked my car. I then noticed Damian's car at the parkway.

Shaynell: Look like Damian is at my house already.

I grabbed my luggage and grabbed my keys to get into my house.

Shaynell:(sighs) Finally! I'm inside my own house.

I opens the door and went inside the house. I set my luggage aside and kick my shoes off.

Shaynell: UGH! Finally. Damian! I'm home!

I heard from no response.

Shaynell: Damian? Hello?

I went to the kitchen to try to get rid of the expired food, when I noticed that a huge chocolate cake on the table.

Shaynell: What the hell? Why there's cake here?

"POP!"

Shaynell:(gasp) AHH!

I quickly turns around and saw Judgement Day in front of me.

Judgement day: SURPRISE!

Shaynell: What the hell is going on?

Damian: I just want to surprise you!

He smile and kissed me on the lips, making me a smile.

Damian: I miss you so much!

He wrapped his arms around me and hugged me tight.

Shaynell:(giggling) Damian!

Damian: I miss you so much! I miss your Face! Your voice! Those lips!

He smirks and and sloppily kiss me on the lips, causing me to gasp for air.

Rhea: Damian! Give her some space. You're going to swallow her face.

Shaynell:(coughing) Jesus!

Damian: I'm sorry. I just miss her so much!

He quickly picked me up and hold me tight, accidentally squeezing me.

Shaynell:(gasp) Damian! You're squeezing me! HELP!

Finn and Dominik quickly pulled me away from him.

Shaynell:(coughing)

Finn:(concerned) Are you ok?

Shaynell:(coughing)

Damian: I'm sorry. I just can't enough of you.

Shaynell:(coughing) I know. Just please be gentle next time.

Damian: I will, Mija.

He smile and gently holds me.

Damian: Come here, princesa.

He smiles and playfully pokes my sides, causing me to giggle and squirm.

Finn:(clears throat) Excuse me. Aren't we going to eat this cake or see you make out?

Damian: Oh right. I got some double chocolate cake for you.

Shaynell: I can see that.

Dominik: Oh. Let get some milk to eat some cake.

Shaynell: DOM! Don't drink that! It expired!

He accidentally drink the expired milk, but quickly spit it out.

Dom:(gags) YUCK!

Shaynell: Sorry. I haven't throw away the expired food. All of my food went bad for the last 5 months.

He continue gagging to get rid of the awful taste in his mouth with Rhea by his side.

Rhea: Wash it down with water.

He quickly drinks water from the tap to get rid of the smell.

Rhea: You feel a little better?

Dominik: Yea.

Shaynell: Seriously. Sorry. I didn't have the chance to get rid of the food in the fridge.

Dominik: It fine. You got Listerine?

Shaynell: Bathroom on the right.

Dominik: Thank you!

He quickly left the kitchen to go the bathroom.

Shaynell: While he in the bathroom, I'll order some pizza and wings to go along with some cake. Damian, can you take the cake to the living room?

Damian: Of course.

Shaynell: Thank you, my bunuelos.

I smile and kiss him on the lips, making him blush.

I starts ordering some food while we wait for Dominik to recover.

#damian priest #puerto rican papi #damian priest imagine #damian priest oneshot #wwe fanfiction #the judgment day wwe #rhea ripley #finn balor #dominik mysterio

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grey-sorcery · 2 years

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Introduction

The concept of the subtle body can be traced back as far as the second century BCE, specifically within ancient Taoism. The original term from Sanskrit is “Sūkṣma-śarīra”. This concept eventually spread into several cultures and was westernized by the ancient Greeks. Throughout each of its manifestations within cultures and practices through history, its core concepts have remained relatively the same, an energetic form that is tied to the physical body that is sensitive to the energy, qi, or ether that surrounds it. It has been considered the vehicle for spellwork for its entire existence in its varied forms. Unfortunately the term “Subtle body” has its origins in the Theosophy Society, a group of colonialist, misogynistic, white supremacists that appropriated from several cultures and published largely bullshit occult texts. They appropriated it and were the first to translate the Sanskrit to the modern term. However, the concept has existed for 4 thousand years, making the practice a very valid one, when studying from a well read and centered perspective. On a personal note, “subtle body” sounds a hell of a lot less gringe than “body of light” as the ancient Greeks had coined it. Even with its background. Purely within the context of modern New Age and New Thought movements, which lead directly to fascism. It would be best to avoid subtle body practices from the Theosophy Society and The Fourth Way.

What is The Subtle Body?

The subtle body is the energetic field surrounding all living things and the energetic nodes (as in density) of energies that are connected by conduits (paths of least resistance). The subtle body is connected to the physical body as well. Any time a practitioner dreams or projects astrally, they are doing so with their subtle body. Any time a practitioner casts a spell or does any other kind of working, they do so via their subtle body. The subtle body is composed of a connection between nodes of energetically dense nodes and several fields that are generated by the interactions between these nodes. Some of these nodes are aspects of the physical body that also generate their own fields. Each node has its own energetic signature. Many of the points are similar, but with several minute differences. Although their network creates several differentials in their expressions.

The Wellsource is The Mitochondria of The Subtle Body

The wellsource is the only aspect of the Subtle body that is metastable and infinite. Meaning that it cannot run dry. It is the point of source that keeps the entire subtle body from dissipating due to energetic half-life.

You can read up further on the Wellsource here.

Probable Flows Within The Subtle Body

All energy follows the path of least resistance. Within the subtle body this is done through several different means, ranging from the nervous system or hyper-dimensional connections to entanglement. Whenever a path is obstructed, the energy will reroute itself to correct. While this keeps the subtle body active, it also can have some pretty severe side effects as changing the nodes that transient energies must pass through modifies their base properties when they enter the blocked point.

Energetic Points

Here is a list of all energy points within the subtle body up to four spatial dimensions. Please excuse my handwriting. This is a page from my digital grimoire that I have for personal use. If someone would like to recreate a cleaner version, I’d add it to this post and credit, of course. All points should be considered to be conductive. I gave each energy point a corresponding part of the physical body to assist with locating them within the subtle body. Very few of them are actually connected directly to the physical body.

To gain a better understanding of what these properties are, I highly recommend reading through my energy work series.

Point 50: Adiabatic, Inductive.

Energetic Conduits

Each conduit has its own bandwidth for energetic transference. This bandwidth is determined by the density and volume modifications of the point that the energy is transferring from. Energy can move through these conduits in both directions simultaneously without interacting. This is because of the dimensional phases of each conduit. Since conduits don't modify energetic properties at all, there’s really no reason to create a graphic specifically for them. You can see each conduit in the image for further details.

Energetic Fields

Our physical and subtle bodies produce fields in which they are housed. These fields are a major component to energetic awareness and energy work. It is significantly easier to sense and manipulate energies that exist within our fields. There are two proponent fields produced by the physical body, that of the heart and that of the brain. The heart’s field is significantly larger, encompassing our entire bodies and outlines the framework of the predominant field within the subtle body. The brain field is not as strong, but is core informationally dense. This allows it to be a perfect middle ground between our conscious minds and the subtle body. The subtle body itself generates three prevailing fields. The first is generated by the interaction between the myocardium energy point and the wellsource. This is the largest field and follows the framework of the field produced by the organ. This field is our main connection to our empathy and the first of the energetic senses. The second is produced by interactions between the pineal cortex point and the pancreas point. This field is the basis for the second and third energetic senses. It is also the only field that is fluid in form and volume. It can expand as large as can be conceptualized. The third field is the one produced between the foremost 15 energy points. This field is key for the rest of the energetic senses. Within this field, spiritual entities become more identifiable and more observable.

Correspondences and Energetic Properties

It is important to note that Hinduism is a semi-closed practice and that without immersion into the religion and culture surrounding their practices, you will not have a complete picture of their magical applications. This post is in no way promoting the employment of concepts such as *Chakras. Each point can be given their own correspondences, and a lot of them already do, specifically the ones in the hands, head, and torso. The correspondences of each point can be completely decided by each practitioner. It is your body. While it may be a part of an aggregate whole, your self-awareness gives you a unique vantage to do so.

The energetic properties of these points are not things so human as “protection” or “prosperity”, but rather how each energetic composite interacts with the other, especially as the transit between energetic nodes. You can read more on this within my energy work series linked above.

Breaks & Blockages

Breaks

The breaking of an energetic conduit occurs when a person undergoes a very traumatizing event, typically very physical or involving the experience of death. During these experiences, one might retreat within themselves with a feeling of being wounded. The part of the subtle body that is closest to the region of the body that experienced the trauma(s) may be gradually or suddenly cut off from the rest of the system. This happens by redirecting, which lowers the bandwidth of the conduits connected to it to zero. Once this occurs it is very difficult to reconstruct without assistance, but not impossible.

Blockages

Blockages are the result of self-doubt or self-shame. The conduit is gradually blocked by conscious thoughts that decrease the flow of energy through the conduits until it is but a trickle. This will wither the conduit down to practically nothing. This can be remedied by genuine self-care and seeking psychiatric help and therapy. Making decisions, including how your talk to yourself, that improve your confidence and self-esteem will gradually increase the flow back to the way they were. This issue can also be resolved by the assistance of another.

Energetic Awareness

Have you ever felt someone staring at you, or sensed how someone was feeling without any external information? These are the senses of energetic awareness that we use on a regular basis. Energetic awareness is key to becoming familiar with the subtle body and energy work, spirit work, and astral projection. Do not confuse energetic awareness with visualization. These senses are the result of interactions between the subtle body fields, specific subsequent energy points and an outside energetic composite. You can read further on energetic awareness in my Intermediate Energy Work post, which you can find via the link above.

Energy Work

The subtle body plays an integral part in performing energy work. Our minds are intertwined with our subtle bodies and through that connection, our conscious and subconscious minds can manipulate the energies around us via the subtle body. When performing energy work, the energies we manipulate are transferred through and projected via the subtle body. Even when controlling energies outside of our subtle bodies, we project energy to do those operations. This process follows laws similar to those in thermo and hydrodynamics.

The Multi-Dimensional Subtle Body

A vast preponderance of energetic nodes and connections exist in higher spatial dimensions. This makes them significantly more difficult to become aware of. Without a conceptualization of topology, I’d say it’d be near impossible. These higher dimensional points play a massive constitutive role in the functionality of the subtle body. Due to the topological nature of these nodes and connections, it is impossible to create accurate graphical depictions of them. However, I will be creating a network illustration of them that isn’t physiologically related. This image will be published in my Advanced Energy Work part II post.

If you'd like to read more about me, see my other content, request content, commission a sigil or divination reading, click here.

#Energy work #witchcraft #witchcraft guide #witchcraft resources #witches of tumblr #beginner witch #Gew

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moonieshinesims · 4 months

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Generation One - Chapter Twenty Nine

Sim Alpha Sigma inducts their new members, and River finally hears back about the internship, but not in the way that she expects to...! Now she has a bit more to stress about, more so than just joining a family of criminals as an intern.

The Sim Alpha Sigma induction happened a week unfortunately after Cassandra's departure. As president of the sorority, Bella had hand-picked the new inductees herself. Since she and Fig were the only senior members left, they were not allowed to take on anymore littles. Therefore the four new girls were split up between Havarti and River.

Daphne, a dance student, and Hana, a social media influencer and IT student became Havarti's littles. While Elena, a student of sports medicine, and Sigrid, a botany student became River's littles.

The girls spent a few weeks getting to know one another very well.

But about a week before the holidays, River received an email about her application to the Arakawa Family Internship...!

River tried her best to fill Elena in on the internship, what the family pretended it was, despite it being a front for criminal activities, and how she was connected to all of it.

"...Damn, I can't believe you had to deal with a situation like that... And that you survived it too! I'm really impressed!"

"Well, thank you." River blushed, she still felt a little weird talking about it since the whole kidnapping situation hadn't been brought up to someone new in a while.

She looked back to the email and read through it in detail.

"What is it...?" Fig sat up sleepily. Clearly she'd been paying attention, but had been quiet the whole time.

"A representative from the internship wants to meet me this weekend in town to discuss details about the responsibilities of the job... off the table. This seems kinda shady, but I'm really interested!"

"Considering what happened to you before... Shouldn't you be more hesitant to go off in secluded places with strange men?"

"Well, no. I've got you girls to watch after me of course!"

Elena and Fig exchanged glances, "You want us to spy on your meeting?"

"Of course! You're my sisters! You will do it for me, right?"

With a sigh Elena nodded, and Fig flopped back down onto her pillow.

"I guess..."

That weekend River sat at the bar and ordered a drink. Elena, Fig, and Sigrid were off in a corner being discreet. River had exchanged numbers with the mysterious "representative" named Damien.

A couple minutes after their meeting time, River received a text from him.

River made a discreet nod towards the outside at her friends and headed out there to meet with the internship's rep.

"I apologize for being a little late." Damien said as he sat down at the bar. "I got lost trying to find this place, which is funny, because I'm the one that picked it!"

River laughed nervously.

"So anyways, let's get down to business. What exactly do you know about the internship?"

River detailed Damien on all the legal details she knew about Arakawa Masumi and his hot spring internship.

"So where do you think I fit in with all of that...?" Damien smirked. This was clearly a trick question.

River had no idea how to answer, so she stared at him blankly, starting to sweat.

"I'm not actually a real rep from the internship, but I do have a connection to them. Or well, my people do that is. You see, I work for the National Investigative Team of Criminal Activity, or NITCA for short. I know that you know that the Arakawas are criminals."

"We can guarantee you acceptance into the internship, but you have to agree to gather information for us while you're in Mt. Komorebi in order to be accepted."

River was speechless! She picked up her drink nervously and gulped half of it down.

She technically wanted to spy on the Arakawas for her own gain, but only to find Ichiban again... And potentially gain information on 13G and Rohan's involvement with her previous kidnapping... But to spy for the government? What did this mean for her and Ichiban?

"We've been keeping an eye on you ever since a member of the Arakawa Simkuza family saved you from Joe Goldberg. We have reason to believe he had contacts in a rival gang of the Arakawas. Getting information on both gangs would be very beneficial to national security."

"13G..." River whispered.

"Did you just say 13G? I'm surprised you know about them, they're far more secretive than any of the families in Mt. Komorebi. I suppose it's because their not exactly Simkuza. While the Arakawas are still dangerous, at least you have friendly connections there. 13G on the other hand are really bad news. Either way, we want information on both of them and we want you to do it."

River felt her heart racing. She couldn't believe she had agreed to this!

"I'm really looking forward to this," she reached for Damien's hand and shook it vigorously, "When do we get started with everything?"

"Oh! I'd say we start now." He pulled out an envelope from the briefcase he brought with him and handed it over to River, "Start getting into shape. You leave out for Mt. Komorebi the first week of next year, so you've only got two and a half more months to prepare! The stronger you are, the better. Get yourself a gym membership, get a Simlingo membership and learn some Komorebigo, and I'll get started on your paperwork! You'll hear from me again soon!"

Damien nodded his goodbye to her and left the bar. River was left sitting silently, her mouth hanging open slightly. Elena, Fig, and Sigrid approached once they knew Damien was gone.

"So what happened? Was he legit? What did he say?"

"I... I guess I'll be leaving for Mt. Komorebi at the beginning of the year!"

#generation one #moonie's legacy challenge #ts4 challenge #ts4 legacy

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daja-the-hypnokitten · 1 year

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Jukebox reviews part 3! For context, see my post “A Project” under this same tag. If you want to see a full list of his EMCSA stories, they can be found here, sorted alphabetically. And if you want to see his drabbles, you can find those at @jukeboxemcsa

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