#death threats just make people not like you
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Sasuke not wanting to be a warrior and giving up on his revenge against Itachi is wildly OOC without some really strong push for this change, which is why I lean towards an SI-OC for a House Husband Sasuke AU, because the amount of trauma and pressure that canon Sasuke is suffering from all angles is intense. But the way that I could MAYBE see canon Sasuke giving up on recklessly focusing on revenge against Itachi is if there had been other survivors of the Uchiha massacre.
Like, okay, I understand that the Uchiha massacre was the plan of a couple different puppet masters, so it's not going to make sense. (Massacres do not, as a rule, ever "make sense". They are bad full-stop.) Part of the goal here is obviously to just get rid of the Uchiha clan and the potential threat that they pose to future plans.
But Sasuke could have just died on some random mission as a genin and then what? What if Madara and Obito lose? This is an incredibly violent world filled with incredibly clever ninja, it's unreasonable not to be concerned about any of them being offed randomly by accident. People like Danzo and Zetsu then have no more new Uchiha children to use and to harvest if anything goes to shit. And their stupid plans are often so overcomplicated that there should be a high chance of things going to shit!
They have cloning, of course, but secret cloning operations are probably expensive and presumably have a relatively high failure rate, and require the cooperation of people like Orochimaru and Kabuto. What if you just don't have the material left for a good cloning process?
Itachi is in a really weird position here and I do not well remember all of the different puppet strings that are being pulled here. I assume that Madara and Obito wanted all Uchiha dead for some reason? But I would have assumed that people like Danzo and the Third Hokage would have preferred to leave most of the children alive to mold into a new generation of Uchiha soldiers. I vaguely remember something about Danzo maybe being prejudiced against the Uchiha? (EDIT: Yeah, Danzo probably doesn't want any kind of law enforcement looking into his shit and the Uchiha are the cops, but that doesn't fully explain why he would want to get rid of all of the Uchiha children too.) So maybe Danzo wants them all gone too, and everyone is just forced to leave Sasuke alive because they know Itachi WILL go more insane than he already is if Sasuke bites it in an "accident".
"The Uchiha were planning a coup" is such an unsatisfactory explanation for the actions of a lot of these characters. It is IMPOSSIBLE for every Uchiha to have been 1) an adult, 2) a ninja, and 3) someone who voted for a coup and participated in it. We know ninja like Itachi and Shisui felt more loyal to the village itself and they couldn't have been the only ones. Uchiha have been defecting from their clan in order to join the village instead since Uchiha Hikaku abandoning Madara for Senju Hashirama after Izuna's death and before the creation of the village.
And we know that this is a sexist, patriarchal world! There would have been some men who would have decided the course of action FOR their spouses and their children, if the spouses and children were aware of this ninja operation at all. EVERY single disabled and elderly person in the clan was in on it too? EVERY civilian? Since Hashirama, NO Uchiha has ever married outside of their clan? Okay, I can buy that the Uchiha clan would be incredibly controlling regarding their bloodlines, yes, and I know that they were being isolated and that the more "progressive" Uchiha with outside lovers were probably being killed off by their enemies. Fine. Maybe all of the other adult Uchiha were cooperating and had impossibly good information security, let's pretend that's true.
But that still leaves the issue of the children! Would an isolated Uchiha clan trying to orchestrate a coup not be super controlling about encouraging their members to get into "good, traditional families" and make more "loyal Uchiha soldiers"? Fascist states often get really weird about that kind of thing. Sasuke cannot have been the only young Uchiha child at this point in time! It would be... REALLY weird if he was.
(Itachi is not heroic for this. It is a TRAGEDY. It is horrifying. There are no heroes in this part of the story and the best that I can say for Itachi is that he was another victim of really weird and twisted circumstances.)
Anyway, I think it would be fun to have an AU where Sasuke is left as the clan head of a bunch of children, at least 10 of them or so. He's the oldest among them at 8-9 years old. (I'm pretty sure that other fanfictions have done this before. Someone must have done this concept before.) Everyone expects Sasuke to just dump the children on some village caretakers so he can pursue his ninja career, in order to become the new powerful protector of his clan and murder his brother, but MAYBE this situation is something that would make canon Sasuke decide against all manipulation that he can't actually afford to chase Itachi.
He still wants to be super powerful, of course, so that he can murder Itachi if his brother ever comes back, but otherwise? Rebuilding the clan is more important. He's staying at home for his training and accepting parentification with wide open arms and a deep scowl.
(There is the danger of ROOT making off with Uchiha children, which is also unpleasant to think about.)
I think it would be funny for Naruto to deal with the fact that his rival has been a dad since the age of 8-9 years old. (Sakura: "IDIOT. How did you not KNOW that??? EVERYONE knows that!")
I also think it would be funny if Sasuke, when he was annoyed with Kakashi's bullshit, unconsciously pulled out a squeaky tweenage Disappointed Dad Voice to express his frustration with his teacher. (Sasuke: "Do you think that it helps anyone for you to behave this way???" Kakashi: "Hm, there are many things that I don't like about this.")
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This is why The Book of Life is both the most grave threat in GO... and also complete bullshit
I win at attention-grabbing titles today, I think? 😊I don't think that Is The Book of Life real? is the question. I'm more interested in:
Who *believes* that The Book of Life is real and how does that impact their decisions?
Early in S2, there's the scene between Beez and Crowley in Hell, wherein they tell him that Heaven is threatening anyone involved with helping Gabriel with "Extreme Sanctions," which they define as being written out of a thing called 'The Book of Life'. They say that this doesn't just erase someone from existence-- it makes it so that they never existed at all in the first place.
While 'The Book of Life' (and a thing called 'The Book of The Damned') have a place in religions in our real life and are likely being alluded to a bit here, we know that GO puts its own, wonderfully subversive spin on things. More importantly, the scene between Crowley and Beez where Beez defines The Book of Life for us actually might tell us what the deal is with it already.
Crowley, upon hearing about The Book of Life as a threat, immediately tells Beez that there is actually no such thing. He says that they-- meaning the two of them-- made it up back in the day to tease more innocent angels. Crowley is confident of this fact when he's not always confident about his pre-fall recollections and, as a result, we're inclined to trust his opinion here, right? It's Crowley's doubt in himself that has caused us to start to complicate a thing that might actually be deceptively simple: it's not a thing.
We see the realization that Crowley is likely correct flicker on Beez's face when Crowley tells them that The Book of Life is not real... and then quickly disappear and be replaced by an attempt to gather their pride.
Both Beez and Crowley have faulty memories and many scenes in S2 show Crowley's struggle to recall some people and events from when he was an angel. Even if you think that Crowley plays with knowledge of this with other angels and demons (like with Furfur and/or Saraqael) and purposefully pretends to forget them, he admits to Gabriel near the end of S2 that he knows what Gabriel is going through from personal experience.
What Crowley is sure about, though, is a memory that he has of him and Beez teasing some angels and making up The Book of Life. Lord Beezlebub, though, doesn't have this memory. It's perhaps trauma-blocked for them, the way that many of Crowley's own have been and many still are.
When Crowley tells them that he's sure that The Book of Life is bullshit, we see a flicker of vulnerable horror pass over Beez's face for the briefest of moments before they double down and insist that, no, he has to be wrong, The Book of Life is real.
Why do they do this? Because they know that Crowley is likely correct and they're embarrassed.
Imagine being Beez, running Hell for all those years, and jumping to do whatever Heaven tells them to do to try to maintain order and stay alive, only to find out that the thing Heaven's threatening them with? It not only doesn't even exist but Beez themselves is one of the people who made it up. Heaven took Beez's memories and, with them, some of their sense of self, and then turned around and weaponized those memories against them. They've been frightening Beez half to death and making them do their bidding by threatening them with something they and Crowley once jokingly made up once while being silly and stupid.
That's... pretty dark, no?
Making matters worse? They once ordered Beez to try to kill their old friend, Crowley, and here he is in the present, the only person they can go to for help with finding the person they love before he's harmed even more by these same people who have hurt all of them... and Crowley remembers the friendship they once had more than Beez does. He has a kind of sweet memory of the two of them being friends and he's acting like one in the present by trying to look out for Beez through telling them the truth as much as he knows it. He's being kind to them...
Beez can't stand it. They don't think they deserve it and they feel like such a fool. If they admit the truth-- that they think Crowley's memory is correct and that they were wrong about The Book of Life-- then they're admitting that they were duped by Heaven for longer than anyone can count.
Would Crowley care about this or think lesser of them? No. He would empathize. It's not like he's not in the same boat as Beez, having also been harmed by Heaven and facing difficulties with his memories. He would understand and he'd continue to be kind about it... but Beez has their pride. Beez is embarrassed-- so, they double down. They change the course of the season as a result.
They tell Crowley that The Book of Life is a real thing and emphasize the threat. This causes Crowley to begin to doubt the validity of his own memory. It triggers his lack of trust in himself. He's already vulnerable about his memory but he was sure about this particular memory-- until Beez starts insisting that he's wrong. (To be fair to Beez, they both have such shit memories that it's easy to see how they'd both wind up operating under the assumptions that there's a real threat, even if talking more to one another and trying to figure it out together would have been the healthier way to handle it.)
Crowley thinks, well, Beez has run Hell for ages and surely they'd know more than him if Extreme Sanctions are a thing or not? He presumes that Beez has seen it done before, since they're insisting that it's real. He presumes that he's the one who is incorrect and, as a result, becomes convinced that Aziraphale is now risking his very existence to help Gabriel.
This then becomes Crowley's primary motivation for the whole season.
It's even eclipsed the terror he has over the idea of Aziraphale falling because, at least, if the worst happened and Aziraphale fell, he'd still be there. If Heaven erases Aziraphale from The Book of Life, though, according to Beez, Aziraphale will have never existed at all.
At thinking this a possibility, Crowley races back to the bookshop to help protect Gabriel as a way of trying to help protect Aziraphale. All season long, the threat of Aziraphale being The Book of Life'd looms large for Crowley. He even growls at Gabriel at one point that Aziraphale is risking "his existence" to help him. Gabriel also can't help Crowley determine if Extreme Sanctions are really a thing or not-- even if he likely would have been in a position to know previously-- because Gabriel's brain is experiencing technical difficulties and playing nothing but a Buddy Holly song for all of S2.
Crowley is also hesitant to tell Aziraphale about his fear of The Book of Life threat because he knows that Aziraphale is skating on the edge of a breakdown and that, while Aziraphale is strong overall, he is very, very fragile about the fact that Heaven abandoned him and no one has talked to him over the last four years until Gabriel showed up at the door.
Crowley also knows that Aziraphale is sensitive about the fact that all of what little information they can gather about what's doing in Heaven & Hell is coming from a demon Crowley knows because it highlights that, after all the years he gave Heaven, Aziraphale was left without anything remotely close to a friend up there, while Crowley still at least has a contact in a demon who needs him and his experience. That said demon also has a thing for Crowley adds further complications.
So, in an effort to not worsen things and to try to protect Aziraphale, Crowley doesn't tell him that Beez reached out to him for help because he doesn't want to tell Aziraphale that Beez needed him and that they had what is, for them, a fairly friendly chat. As a result of trying to keep that to himself, Crowley can't mention his terror over The Book of Life to Aziraphale.
This means he's alone with the thoughts of it for the season and his already high anxiety is worsened by the fact that seeing Gabriel's memory loss reminds him of his own frail memory, causing him to doubt himself more, and helping convince him that Beez was correct and they're all in massive trouble. He's not the only one trying to protect someone by not mentioning a threat to their existence, though...
The season goes on and Aziraphale goes to Edinburgh. On the way back, he lets Shax into The Bentley and Shax comments that she is "bemused that Crowley should risk his existence" to help Aziraphale. Aziraphale doesn't immediately question this as related to The Book of Life because he assumes that Shax means that Hell would destroy Crowley if they determined that he was involved-- that it's the same threat to Crowley's existence that has always existed. Still, it amps up his worry for Crowley's safety and when he gets back to London, he doesn't tell Crowley about his having met Shax.
Because Aziraphale doesn't bring this up, there is not an opportunity to for either of them to mention exactly how worried they are that the other might die over all of this. The subject of existence-- and how Crowley is worried that it ties to The Book of Life-- continues to not come up.
Fast forward to The Final Fifteen and now we have Michael in the bookshop living room, yelling that they're going to erase Aziraphale from The Book of Life. This is the first time in the season that Aziraphale has directly been confronted with the concept of Extreme Sanctions.
Michael, for their part, seems to genuinely believe in The Book of Life. We have several scenes earlier in the season showing Michael making a power grab in Gabriel's absence and tussling with Uriel over what little power either of them really do have. It's likely that, even if The Book of Life is a thing that does exist, Michael doesn't actually have the ability to erase anyone from existence. (Not even a fascist regime would be dumb enough to give that power to Michael lol.)
What could be the case, though, is that the angels are also told this is real from being the frightened cherubs back in the day lol and all presume that The Supreme Archangel must have the power to do this because, well, they're The Supreme Archangel. (Even if it's really The Metatron who runs the show.) Michael thinks that if they sound like they have the power, it's as good as actually having the power, and it will result in them being seen as Gabriel's replacement. You know the idea of acting as if you already have the job you want to get the job you want? Michael seems to be doing that in 2.06.
What's true, though, is that there is no evidence that Michael has ever seen a case of Extreme Sanctions in action, either... and there's also zero indication that The Metatron actually told Michael that they were authorized to do such a thing, if it does exist. The opposite, actually, seems to be true...
What we did see is The Metatron order Saraqael and Michael to find Gabriel without specifying how and that Michael then took it upon themselves to enlist Beez for assistance. At no point does using Extreme Sanctions seem to be anything but Michael's idea of a motivational tool to get Beez to help them find Gabriel (as Michael didn't know that Beez was already personally motivated to locate Gabriel... and then help keep him away from the angels).
So, we're saying that Michael doesn't actually know fuck all about fuck all where this topic is concerned and them threatening to use Extreme Sanctions doesn't actually mean that they exist. This is pretty heavily suggested by this scene here...
Whoever the being being played by Derek Jacobi who shows up at the bookshop in the middle of Michael's 2.06 tirade actually is-- Satan, The Metatron, Satan-in-The-Metatron, All of The Them standing on each other's shoulders in a Metatron suit, whoever-- Michael comes to believe that this is The Metatron... and this being whom Michael believes is The Metatron shuts down the idea that Michael could write someone out of The Book of Life hard.
While this can be seen as another type of power play-- shutting down Michael to establish that he's actually the most powerful person in the room and that being a low key threat to all of them, including both Michael and Aziraphale... it doesn't necessarily mean that this being is lying about The Book of Life.
For one thing? Michael, once told that the being in front of them is The Metatron, believes it, so, when whom they think is The Metatron tells them that what they're saying about The Book of Life is "utter balderdash-- I mean, complete piffle", Michael doesn't say anything that suggests confusion over that.
If The Metatron was the one out here authorizing Extreme Sanctions and telling Michael to threaten anyone helping Gabriel with erasure from The Book of Life, Michael would have started to splutter here and said something along the lines of 'but, but, Daaaad, you said I could?!' lol. Instead, they appear to just be embarrassed to have been caught out threatening something they can't actually do. This furthers the suggestion that, not only can Michael not actually do it, they've probably never seen it done-- adding to the suggestion that The Book of Life is not actually a thing.
Complicating matters is that, for their own safety, Beez and Gabriel are gone by this point in the story-- and Gabriel has his memories back. If Gabriel had still been in the bookshop at this point, he could have made it clear that Michael didn't have the power to do that and he might have also been able to tell Crowley and Aziraphale that The Book of Life isn't real, provided he knew the truth about it. One of the reasons to pull Gabriel from the story prior to this, from a writing standpoint, would be to take away a character who could provide Crowley with that knowledge because the point of Crowley having been panicked about it all season is to lead to it affecting how he views the events in this episode and the plan he makes and tries to convey to Aziraphale in the pivotal "no nightingales" scene. You could argue one of the reasons to wait so long for Gabriel to get his memories back in the story is for this purpose-- any sooner and there would have been time to tell Crowley the truth and then you wouldn't have Crowley trying to save Aziraphale from non-existence in 2.06 by suggesting the only thing he can think of that might keep that from happening (which we'll look at in another meta about that scene.)
Because "The Metatron" shuts Michael up about The Book of Life, Aziraphale puts it on simmer in the back of his mind because, as he goes with "The Metatron", he has other, more devilish, concerns on his mind. There is evidence in 2.06 to suggest that, by the time he's come back to the shop after talking with "The Metatron", that he's pretty convinced that there is a strong possbility that this is really Satan and that he could be falling/about to fall.
He tries to convey this to Crowley but Crowley is not only blocked from seeing it because Satan can influence him-- like he did to prompt Crowley into identifying him as The Metatron-- but because Crowley still thinks the bigger threat is The Book of Life. He's still worried that he can't trust his own mind and that Beez was correct. In reality, though, all of the bells and whistles and noise about The Book of Life serves as a distraction from the real threat, which is Aziraphale falling. This influences what plan Crowley comes up with a bit while Aziraphale is with "The Metatron" because his motivation is to keep Aziraphale from being written out of existence.
Now, sure, it's possible that Heaven went and invented The Book of Life and made it a real weapon after it had just originally been a thing Beez and Crowley made up but if you look at what it's supposed to do, it's easy to see how unlikely that actually is. Why?
Because Heaven is a fascist regime run by The Metatron so the goal is always for him to maintain control over his little empire thing here and Extreme Sanctions? It's actually the exact opposite of that. We all know about the butterfly effect-- the idea that a single butterfly flapping its wings in one moment of time, if altered, would cause a ripple effect of other things to be altered that basically changes the course of the known universe, right? If Heaven really were to make it so that even just one of their angels were made to have never existed at all, they've essentially created a parallel universe. While those might likely exist, actively making them is not at all the goal of a character like The Metatron, who has a hard enough time keeping his own regime in line in this present universe.
There's also the question of the fact that this would be erasing one of God's creations in a way that reverses Her decision to have ever created them in the first place and I highly, highly doubt that The Metatron actually has the power to do that, let alone any of the other angels. That feels very "only God could ever do this and She has no desire to" to me.
Beyond that, there's how Crowley phrased it to Beez: "It's just something we used to joke about to frighten the cherubs."
On a show with language this deliberate and that uses the etymological histories of words as part of telling its story, it seems worth pointing out that the origin of the word 'joke' is basically wordplay itself. This would seem like a suggestion to look at the wordplay that sits there in the phrase "Extreme Sanctions" because this very dark-sounding thing can also have a more positive connotation.
While sanctions are a penalty imposed for breaking a rule or an agreement or a law, to sanction something can have one of two extremely different meanings. One is to enforce the penalties we're talking about but the other is the exact opposite of that-- it's to give an official stamp of approval for an action.
Those who are helping keep Gabriel safe from The Metatron in S2 are threatened with "Extreme Sanctions" by Heaven... as in extreme punishment... but they'll likely be met with extreme sanctions by God... as in, God approves of them working together to protect Gabriel and of the actions they'll take as a result of what they learn by doing so.
God's like great job, you guys, extreme sanctions for real, keep it up, now go free the others 👍👍👍make it happen, make it real, kids, let's fucking go... it's not coincidental that I sent you the angel whose name means "messenger" to tell you that I'm giving this whole plot some extreme sanctions here...
You want to erase someone from The Book of Life? Ironically, from what we've seen, besides God, only Crowley himself could probably do that because doing so would alter the makeup of the universe he created and completed with Aziraphale's help.
This is the literal Book of Life:
#ineffable husbands#good omens#good omens meta#crowley#aziraphale#aziracrow#good omens 2#good omens theory#good omens speculation#lord beezlebub#the archangel fucking gabriel#the metatron#michael good omens
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This has nothing to do with a ship war. Buck tommy shipper's didn't even exist until this season. Buddie Stan's acting like this is not new, it just got worse after this season. How are these people so comfortable with making hate tweets and tagging a actor in it ?!
All this because of a TV show and fictional characters. you go around and sending death threats like it's nothing disgusting.
Or making fake rumors that Oliver doesn't like his storyline because of pictures he is deleting. He can't even enjoy the hiatus. making his silence on social media about a fictional ship , is so weird. No wonder he left Twitter and doesn't post anything.
you are dragging a actors personal life into it.
I'm so embarrassed for all of you and only can hope you don't act like that in the real world. Because a lot of you need to snap back into reality and realize it's a TV show.. and if you act like that over it maybe it's time to step back from it.
#911 abc#911 season 7#bucktommy#tommy kinard#evan buckley#anti buddie#lou ferrigno jr#oliver stark#911
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wait when did ed physically torture anyone other than izzy
...................forcing Jim and Archie to fight to the death under threat of killing them both, and running the whole crew ragged fighting constantly with no breaks to the point where the vast majority of them died, including Ivan?
Again, because this fandom is ridiculous, I have to make the obligatory disclaimer that I think it was a very interesting and dark direction for the show to take Ed's character! He's a very complex dude! He hated himself so much he tried to torment and torture the people who followed him so that they would kill him! And killed a bunch of them with that negligence! His motivation was absolutely self-hate and suicidal ideation! He wanted them to snap and attack him - or, in Jim and Archie's case, he hated the fact that they were happy together so much that he felt he had to literally kill them to tear them apart. It's fucked up. It's delicious. It's a clear expression of Ed's self-loathing and post-break-up grief, as he still thinks Stede left him wilfully.
Doesn't change the fact that it happened.
Seeing as this fandom keeps trying to pretend these are people rather than fictional characters, we should really make the point clear that even if you're suicidal and had a bad break up, you're still responsible for the harm you cause others! Especially when it's this extreme!
Ed's not delusional. He's still in touch with reality - minus his hallucinations while he's literally dying. He's just hurting, upset about his break up, and wants to make everyone suffer with him. Which, IRL, would in fact be a supremely shitty thing to do.
But Ed isn't a real person. He's a fictional character! And that's interesting character writing!
I don't think any of Ed's atrocities make him 'evil' or 'irredeemable' within the context of the show. I just think it means we needed quite a bit more build-up and introspection in order to flesh out his redemption arc, especially with Jim and Archie (Archie whose only reason for instantly forgiving him was that she's 'had worse' in the past! Like, wow!) Because as it stands it's just. Not great writing. I would've cut 90% of the Action (because I do not watch this show for the action, lol) and focused a lot more on Ed and the crew bonding again, in order to make Izzy's claim that the crew love Ed even after he tried to kill the lot of them, feel in any way real.
I loved the scene with Ed and Fang. Honestly, I desperately wanted more of Ed realising he does have control over his actions, and that he needs to make changes in the way he deals with his depression and 'dark side', in order to stop harming the people who make up his support network! I think that's an arc that a lot of us with serious mental health issues can relate to, and I wish it had been fleshed out more.
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Peace Offerings Pt. 14
Pairing: Joel Miller x F!Reader
Chapter Summary: In the previous chapter, Reader was separated from Joel and placed her trust into another member of the group to find their way to him. When they stop into a house to find food and shelter, they run into a man named David and things take a turn for the worst.
Chapter warnings: MDNI 18+, Jackson! au, No Ellie! au, extreme angst, cannibalism, mentions of murder/death/loss, suicidal ideation, cursing, Reader is locked in a cage, broken bones, Reader is knocked out with chloroform.... lmk if i missed any other fun things! :)
Masterlist
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Part Fourteen
I didn’t know what to do. In the new world, it wasn’t a custom to politely introduce yourself anymore. Usually you’d hold a gun up and pray they wouldn’t shoot you first, but this man was standing in front of me and holding his hand out to shake. It felt completely unnatural. I couldn’t help but wonder what Joe would do in this situation. I concluded that he definitely would not shake the man’s hand, so I backed away and stood with my hands crossed over my chest. “Hello David.” I said, trying to sound as intimidating as possible, “To what do I owe the pleasure?” He chuckled lightly and began to pace across the living room, “Well, you see… You and your friend have wandered into my commune, and I take the safety of my people very seriously. I need to be sure you’re not a threat.” I swallowed. Commune was a scary word, and made the man’s welcoming, yet unsettling demeanor make sense. I couldn’t help but wonder if I was dealing with a cult leader of some sort. If so, I had to get out of there, and fast. “Look, David, I can assure you that my friend and I are not a threat to your people. We were just passing through the town and hoping to find something to eat along the way.” I explained innocently. He nodded and stared at me as if he was deciphering me like some sort of code. “You’re hungry?” He asked, his voice lacking the enthusiasm it once carried. “Well, I’m okay but my friend is-” The man cut me off, “Well then you must come with me to our mess hall. There’s plenty of food to go around here.” He smiled. My stomach flip flopped, and upon instinct I blurted out a “No thank you.” His smile quickly folded into a frown. “You’re really going to pass up a free meal? Since when has anyone offered you one of those in the past twenty years?” He questioned suavely. He sounded like a salesperson. “I normally wouldn’t, but my friend and I are in a rush to get somewhere. Just point us towards the exit and we won’t be in your hair anymore.” I said. He pressed his lips together and turned to look over his shoulder into the kitchen. “I’m not sure if your friend will be going anywhere anytime soon.” He said wearily as he looked back at me. “Wha-” My question was caught in my throat when I followed his gaze around the corner and caught sight of Jacob who was sprawled across the floor with a knife buried into his neck. My heart began to pound in my chest and the familiar feeling of adrenaline pumped through my veins. I turned back towards David with my fists balled, but suddenly a strong, sweet smell filled my nose as a cloth was pressed against my face. I tried not to breathe, knowing it was a chloroform rag, but it was too late. My fighting slowed as my vision darkened and I fell unconscious.
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The sound of a knife hitting wood rythmically slowly pulled me into consciousness. My head pounded and the sweet, alcoholic smell was stuck in my nose. Every limb ached as I examined the small metal cell that encapsulated me. I stopped short when I saw where the noise was coming from. Horror filled my body as a human arm fell to the floor as the figure brought down the cleaver once more. My hand flew to my mouth to push the bile back down my throat. The dizziness from being knocked out caused me to fall back into the metal, causing the rungs to vibrate at the impact. The figure paused momentarily and then called out, “David! She’s awake!” I scrambled to sit up against the furthest side of the cage, ensuring that he had no way to get to me through the bars, and eyed him aggressively as he walked into the room.
“How are you feeling?” David asked as he bent down to my level on the opposite side of my enclosure. My hands were pressed up against my chest, instinctively making myself smaller. “Super.” I blurted. He dropped a tray that he’d been carrying onto the ground and slid it through the gap between the bars and the floor. The gap I wished I was small enough to slip through and disappear. “Here, eat. You’ve been out so long… Must be starving.” He said softly. I stared at the contents of the tray. The majority of it was some kind of meat with a pitiful amount of rice. “What kind of meat is it?” I asked reluctantly. “Deer.” He answered stoicly. I scoffed at his blatant lie and kicked the tray with such force that the contents flew across the cell. Some even landed on his shoe. “You’re a fucking animal.” I grunted through my teeth. He leaned closer to the bars and his lip curled up into a sneer, “Oh… You’re awfully quick to judgement. Considering you and your friends killed how many of my men back at your little camp site?” My mind traveled back to that fight outside the tents. Those were his men? And then it all made sense. He captured me for revenge for killing his precious followers.
“They didn’t give us a choice.” I said emotionlessly. “And you think we have a choice? Is that it? You kill to survive... and so do we. We have to take care of our own. By any means necessary.” He demanded. “So now what? Are you going to chop me into tiny little pieces because I killed a few of your delusonal prospects?” I questioned mockingly. “You killed husbands, fathers, brothers. That is nothing to joke about. But I’d rather not kill you. I figure you telling me your name would help me convince the others not to either.” He said in a dark tone, all while trying to keep his patience. I was sick of being looked at like his next meal so I shakily pulled myself up to stand in the center of the cell. David rose off of his knees and to my eyeline. “I’m not telling you shit. Killing me or doing whatever the fuck you’re going to do is not going to bring back your men, so just let me go.” I demanded as I stepped closer to him. He stood on the other side of the bars unmoving, but his lips curled into an even more threatening sneer. “I’m afraid I can’t do that. See, there’s this saying… ‘an eye for an eye.’ Ever heard it before?” He asked patronizingly. I gulped as I nodded slowly. “Right. Now, four men equals four eyes and unless I’ve counted wrong… you only have two.” My nails dug into the palms of my hands as I waited patiently for him to get to him to get to his point. He moved to the doorway, but continued, “Luckily, your brother counted as two more.”
I hurled myself towards the metal bars, banging and pushing as hard as I could. “What the fuck did you do to him?” I growled at David. He walked over to me and wrapped his hands around the rungs. “Let’s just say… his life will help many others to prosper.” He whispered softly. My heart nearly stopped. Though nearly blinded by anger and adrenaline, I still saw an opportunity and wasted no time as I brought my elbow down onto his knuckles, slamming them onto the horizontal bar below. A loud cracking sound filled the air along with David’s pained scream. I reached through the cell door and ripped the key ring off of his belt loop and it ripped away as David fell to the ground. I kept my eye on him as I immediately began fumbling with the lock. David was snapping out of his pained state, but I was faster, and pushed the door open before sprinting down the hallway.
My coordination was low from the dizziness as I tried to navigate our way through the kitchen and to the nearest exit. We ended up going further into the restaurant and found ourselves in the dining room. “I thought you’d be smarter than to think you’re getting out that easily.” David’s voice called out. I quickly crouched behind a booth and peeked over the seats to see him standing there with a machete hanging from his right hand. After throwing a piece of shrapnel away from me to make sure he was heading the opposite way, I began to move, lunging between boothes to stay out of sight. I neared him and planned to take him from behind with a strangle move I’d seen Joel do.
I was inches away from him now, close enough to see the sweat gathering on the back of his neck. I seized the opportunity and launched myself onto David’s back and wrapped my arm around his neck, squeezing with all of the strength I had in me. Sickening gurgling sounds left his mouth as I continued to strangle him and I felt his knees buckling under him. The burning in my arms was only motivation to keep my grip on him, and he finally fell to the ground, taking me down with him. I gasped for breath as I stood up off of him and turned to run out of the door that was feet away, but a sharp sting spread through my calf. I cried out as I toppled to the ground, my head landing inches away from David’s. A sick smile spread across his face. “You’re weak.” He said through his teeth as he pushed himself off of the ground, “Just how I like ‘em.” I tried to sit up and grasp for my leg, but he pushed me down harshly by my shoulder and proceeded to push his body onto mine. I squealed, pushed, and kicked in attempt to get him off of me, but he was too big, too determined. “That’s it, keep fighting.” He breathed. Nausea filled my stomach as I felt him reach down and unzip his pants and began trying to rip my clothes off. I continued to fight, digging my nails into the ground and bringing my knees into his stomach over and over again. Suddenly my hand connected with something hard. Something metal. It was the machete. I grasped it and wasted no time burying it under David’s ribcage. A look of shock occupied his face before his whole body fell onto me.
I was numb. David’s limp body was still draped over mine, but I didn’t have the strength to move it. I’d begun to accept defeat. My brother was gone and Joel nowhere to be found. My last two motivations to be alive were now gone. So there I laid, under my captor on the grimy floor of a restaurant that was being engulfed in flames. The smoke burnt my lungs, but I didn’t care. I breathed in further, hoping it would make my demise come quicker. As I lay there, my mind went back to when Matthew and I were younger. Sitting next to our father’s strawberry plants and stuffing our faces, causing red rings to form around our mouths. I smiled at the memory and felt a tear drip down towards my ear.
Suddenly a loud bang rattled the walls of the restaurant. I stayed still, figuring that it was the ceiling collapsing, but flinched when I heard my name being called. I thought I was imagining it, that I was finally letting go, but then I saw Joel’s face over me. His eyes were wild with concern. “Joel.” I choked. He grunted as he pushed David’s body off of me, his face dropping when he caught sight of David’s undone belt and zipper. My hands floated up to reach for him and he quickly obliged, gathering my quivering form up against his chest. “S’okay babygirl. I’m here. I’ve got you.” He soothed as I sobbed against him. I began to cough between sobs from the smoke gathering in the air, and he quickly moved to carry me outside.
It had snowed more since I’d been captured, and the air stung my exposed skin. Joel set me down gently onto my feet and hurriedly shrugged his heavy jacket off before draping it over my shoulders. “Here.” He breathed before his arm moved to wrap around my shoulders and he began to coral me into the woods, away from the burning building. Suddenly, I dropped to my knees and my breathing became frantic. I was finally processing that my brother was gone. That he’d been murdered, chopped up, and eaten. Joel knelt down next to me and wrapped his arm around me once more as I sat there heaving. I tried to speak, to explain, but I could only manage one word at a time between gasps. “He…. they…” Joel pulled me against himself again and pressed my head under his chin and whispered, “God I’m so sorry.” He pulled away and wiped the wetness from my cheeks and under my nose. “But you’re not hurt.” He said weakly, “Thank fucking god you’re okay.” He pulled me into him again before pressing his lips to the top of my head. I let my body go limp against his. I was relieved to be with him again, to be safe in his arms, but I was so very far from being okay.
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a/n: This was an INTENSE chapter but it's not a Joel fic without angst in every chapter lmao. I hope you enjoyed and as always thank you for reading!!
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#joel miller x reader#joel tlou#pedro pascal#pedro pascal fandom#pedro pascal fanfiction#pedro pascal x female reader#tlou#joel the last of us#the last of us fanfiction#tlou fanfiction#jackson!joel#joel miller fluff#joel miller#joel miller fanfiction#pedro pascal fluff#pedro pascal smut#pedro pascal x reader#tlou joel#joel miller smut#joel miller imagine#joel miller fic#hbo the last of us#joel miller tlou#joel miller x f!reader#forced proximity trope#forced proximity#enemies to friends to lovers#enemies to lovers#romance#age g4p
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Reading the script from 13x02 and it opens with Dean, Sam, and Jack in the Impala driving through the night and eventually stopping at a motel where Donatello catches up to them and reveals that yesterday he was "knocked off [his] feet by this weird wave of power" which was Jack's birth. We know Jack was born at night/early morning, and it's night/early morning again, which means it's literally been a mere 24 hrs at most since Cas died, and the drive that this episode opens with, yeah they're literally just leaving from burning Cas's body. Dean not being immediately warm and fuzzy toward Jack is so understandable, especially since they literally do not know anything about him, other than he's an incredibly powerful supernatural being that they spent all last season trying to stop from existing because of the potential threat his existence could cause on the world.
And the way s12 ends, Jack was positioned to be the next Big Bad from that cliffhanger.
(12x23 script)
Dean also believes Jack brainwashed Cas to get him on-side. He has no reason to trust Jack. And Sam is only really thinking about what Jack can do for him, aka get Mary back. So Sam immediately starts playing nice to get Jack on-side and willing to work with them. Sam also inserts himself into the situation, trying to force Dean and Jack to bond, and this happens again in 13x04 and both Dean and Jack express that they need time.
Dean might be harsh toward Jack and not have a Nice Tone when speaking to him in these early episodes, but he's being brutally honest about his feelings, instead of lying and pretending like Sam. Which Jack values Dean's honesty and is hurt by Sam's dishonesty when it comes to light.
The scripts also make a point to highlight how Jack is not a kid, he's in his twenties. And uses words like "demi-god" in later episodes to distinguish his status as an ultra-powerful supernatural being. Jack is naive and new to the world, sure, but he's not helpless and certainly not powerless. If we want to talk power imbalances than the true imbalance is not Mean Adult Dean not instantly loving Poor Baby Jack and it's not Mean Adult Dean shooting a gun at Literal Newborn Jack. This is a supernatural fantasy show, not a family drama. The genre is important. The true power imbalance here is mortal human man with zero powers vs supernatural being with immense powers. And moreso, a supernatural being with uncontrollable immense powers. They don't know what he could do! They have no way of stopping him if he decides to "go darkside" and just end the world! That's scary. And Sam even explains this to Jack, saying that Dean is scared of what Jack could do and it's their job to protect people, and that they may have to protect others "from you" (Jack). This scene is also another moment where Sam tries to convince Jack that he just needs to work on his powers and train to control them (and also so Sam can use Jack to get Mary back, his top priority).
Anyway, point is, Dean isn't wrong to be skeptical of Jack and on guard and keep him at a distance in those early days, and that's not even accounting for all the grief. It's literally been less than a day since Cas died and they lost Mary (and Crowley). He just burned Cas's body. So him talking about dealing with "the problem" and not immediately adopting Jack into the fold is a pretty normal response, given the context of everything.
I think often people also take the "widowers arc" John parallels too seriously. It's an interesting parallel but it's far from being a 1:1, the context are completely different. Yes, Dean just lost his love. Yes, Dean is now left with a "kid" in the wake of Cas's death. But Dean never claimed Jack as his own. Jack saying Cas is his "father" could be another manipulation tactic to ensure his survival for all Dean knows. Cas isn't there anymore to vouch for Jack, and even when he was there Dean was rightfully skeptical about Cas's sudden change of heart. A change of heart that suddenly had Cas believing in the possibility of "paradise" and "peace on earth" and fulfilling "destiny", all things that go against the core beliefs of Team Free Will who have been fighting for Freedom over Peace. So Dean has no connection to Jack and he doesn't trust Jack's alleged connection to Cas at this moment. He doesn't know Cas will come back. Cas's death felt permanent to Dean. He saw Cas's grace go out, saw his wings burn. He burned Cas's body. He prayed to Chuck and got no answer. There's no coming back in Dean's mind and he's dealing with all that intense grief while also having to contend with the potential threat of this supernatural being that has come into their lives and is literally a stranger to him.
Also Dean's "anger" and harshness, like I've said, is in part because he doesn't trust Jack and is putting up walls because he doesn't want to trust him and then get burned. Dean's always putting his heart into things, he always ends up caring, he can't help it. So in this case he's guarding his heart, he's leaning into his skepticism and suspicions. He's staying on the defensive. But also, anger is a normal and natural step in the grieving process. Yeah, Dean's immense grief over losing Cas, Mary, and even Crowley is not pretty. It's real though. And it's not an over-reaction. I think Dean is reacting the appropriate amount considering all they've lost. Sam under-reacting and dissociating and clinging to the hope of getting Mary back isn't the "baseline normal" emotional reaction. Sam is not coping well either. He's not coping at all, actually, and is instead refusing to really acknowledge these losses.
Anyway, I find many comparisons to John re: widower's arc leaving me cold these days, because they often disregard how completely different the contexts of the two situations are, and instead try to force-fit Dean and Jack into a John and his kids mold. Dean isn't becoming "the angry man of the house." He's grieving and he's skeptical of a near-stranger's intentions. Another way in which Dean and John differ greatly in their responses to grief is: John becomes consumed by revenge and springs into action (just like Sam when he lost Jess) but Dean? Dean shuts down. Dean loses hope. Dean ends up killing himself and wishing to stay dead. (Also, I know not everyone agrees with this interpretation, but: see Dean's response post-15x18. Jensen describes Dean's death as Dean being "tired" and letting go (sounds a whole lot like suicide to me). Dean always loses hope when Cas dies).
As the audience, we have the gift of omniscience and we are also able to look into the future now that the show is done. We know Jack doesn't become the second coming of Lucifer, but Dean doesn't know any of that at the time. Dean, in-world, is dealing with the very real possibility that Jack could become their next antagonist and all his actions in the early days following Jack's introduction are informed by that lingering threat.
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I had to start trying to explain to my mom (strictly a movie/tv fan) why the Jedi are like this at this point in time, and it finally clicked in my head. The perfect way to explain how they're so rigid and strict and have such huge sticks up their butts at this point in time.
The Jedi of this generation are the result of generational trauma.
(Spoilers for episodes 1 and 2 of The Acolyte, Phase One of the High Republic books, and some barebones setting spoilers of Phase Three under the cut. Also a big wall of text because I never know when to shut up 🙃)
So I'm behind on Phase III of the High Republic books (got a few chapters into The Eye of Darkness when it came out, brain farted out on me on reading ability, haven't gotten back to it yet 🙃😖) but I know enough to know that things are really going bad. The Nihil are rampaging, the Nameless are turning people to stone, the Stormwall has cut off like a third of the galaxy from the rest of it. It's a lot! It's really bad! And we see how it's affecting our heroes. Avar and Elzar are reeling without Stellan. Vern's questioning about how the Jedi are responding to this threat throughout Phase I has led her to become a Wayseeker. Padawans like Bell, Burry and Reath have been elevated to Knighthood a lot sooner than any of them expected to be. All of them are incredibly traumatized.
But that's just the Jedi we've seen. The heroes, the big names. Imagine being a nobody at this time. An extra. A child.
Imagine being a youngling in this era. There are literal nightmares hunting you. People are dying right and left, they're being husked and turned to stone or just plain shot/stabbed/whatever. The outposts are being closed down and everyone's being recalled to Coruscant, and that's the ones who've survived so far. They knocked the Starlight Beacon out of the sky, something that was supposed to be impossible. And less than five years ago, this was a golden age of peace, of light and life and great works that were bringing the galaxy together, a united front. That's horrible, that is terrifying.
We as the readers know it's going to work out, because it has to, because this is a prequel. They don't know that. They're just kids, and the world has suddenly turned upside-down, and the galaxy is big and scary and dark.
So everything works out, the day is saved. But these kids, they have to live with this trauma for the rest of their lives.
And when they grow up, and they train Padawans, those Padawans are going to carry the lessons they learned onwards. There is no lesson a Master can teach in this era that isn't going to carry the grief of the Nihil or the Nameless. There is no lesson any Master will ever teach again, from the moment Loden Greatstorm was captured by Marchion Ro all the way to Luke's temple burning to the ground, that won't somehow, in some way, be touched by this. It haunts everyone, everything. Those lessons are passed on, and on, and on.
The plot of the High Republic books is supposedly unrelated to the show, because it's a hundred years later. But the plot of the High Republic books explains everything about the Jedi in this era of the galaxy. They're carrying the trauma and grief of an entire generation that was brutalized unlike anything the Order had ever seen before.
Yord Fandar is intense about protocal and following the rules and making sure he's the perfect Jedi, because a hundred years ago maverick Elzar Mann played fast and loose with the rules while he was stationed on Valo, and then the Nihil turned the Republic Fair into a bloodbath. Sol is worried about Osha's (so far) inability to put her grief to the side and remain objective in chasing Mae because Imri Cantaros lost control and nearly murdered the Nihil who caused the death of his master during the Great Disaster. Vernestra Rwoh is refusing to charge into this without talking it over with the Council because she remembers what happened when she kept information from them a hundred years ago.
These aren't isolated incidents because they happened to the heroes, every Jedi of that era has some story like this, where the lines blurred in the fog of war and they made or nearly made horrible mistakes out of fear. And now, every Jedi is going to want to rise above that. To not make those mistakes, because that past is past. It's peaceful again. They're better now. But that trauma's lurking under the surface, just like the Sith. The Nihil won't win, but the Order isn't going to, either. Because what the Nihil did changed them, permanently.
And the Sith have watched, and waited, as that trauma has become so internalized, so central to what the Jedi are. The Jedi might not even realize that's what's happened to them. But the Sith see it.
And now it's finally time to begin the grand plan.
#i have. so many thoughts. but these are the only ones i can verbalize at the moment#yes it's taken me like... 2 and half hours to write this 🤣#anyway. acolyte good. i like! still a bit apprehensive because striking the balance between jedi being dogmatic vs vilifying them is hard#but so excited to see where this goes!#and the production and the costumes and the VECTORS i just 🥰🥰🥰#K8 Rambles about Star Wars#K8 Rambles about The High Republic#the acolyte#star wars the high republic#sw thr#the acolyte spoilers#star wars the acolyte spoilers#sw the acolyte#sw the acolyte spoilers#star wars the acolyte#yord fandar#master sol#osha aniseya#mae aniseya#vernestra rwoh
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Heyo, @nidmightcookies! This is my response to your reply on Atticus' post over here -- I didn't want to take away from the message of that post or the additions from other POC.
Sidenote: I'm extremely white and have no credentials that make me qualified to talk about race (I'm just a person who reads and tries to listen), and my takes are probably going to show that. That's another reason I didn't want to clutter up the original post with my reply.
In response to this
“Why is it racist to depict Ed as uncontrollably violent?
Because he's not actually depicted that way in the show.”
you talk about Ed baiting the crew to murder him and committing other violent acts. The original point is stating that Ed is not depicted as uncontrollably violent in the show, not claiming that he perpetrated no violence full stop. Yes, Ed does violence. No, he is not uncontrollably violent.
What Ed does is purposeful, not uncontrollable. He doesn’t push Lucius off the ship after he gives up all hope because he’s a violent guy who just does stuff like that, and the mutiny situation in S2E2… as allthinky said in a response, “that’s Ed at the end of his rope,” not him being uncontrollably violent. He’d been working towards suicide ever since he started baiting Low. As a backup plan, he’s been working the crew hard, disregarding their well-being, and being an overall awful boss in an attempt to incite a mutiny.
Yes, he was “a serious, immediate threat to his crew” by the time he was out of other ideas to make someone take him out. Ed commits acts of violence -- I don’t think I’ve seen anyone claim he doesn’t -- but he always does so with some amount of reason (not necessarily good reasons) and control.
“Upon reflection, my biggest issue may be with the people who argue that Ed's never been shown to be violent, or that any time he has resorted to violence, he's absolved of blame by the fact that someone was mean to him first. Which... I don't think I've seen you make either of those arguments at any point in the past.”
I’m really glad that you mentioned that OP hadn’t made either of those arguments (that you know of), that was genuinely very cool. As for the rest of it, I don’t believe I’ve seen anyone say that Ed is “never shown to be violent” or that he can always be “absolved of the blame” unless you want to remove all of the nuance from common talking points.
He is never shown to be more violent than the average pirate and, due to his deep-seated trauma relating to his own capacity for violence, he’s actually on the less violent end of the pirate spectrum. He can’t be absolved of all blame for his actions because he’s a grown man who makes his own choices (and saying otherwise robs him of his agency). What I’ve seen said is that Ed’s actions are informed by things like trauma, abuse, and racism. His actions make sense. They’re not spontaneous violence committed because Ed flies into rages and homicidal spirals out of the blue.
“Not saying we shouldn't consider it [that is, are we “assigning more weight to Ed's violent actions than those of other characters or assuming he's worse than he actually is”], but I mean. If a white character on the show had cut off his employee's toes and fed them to him, shot him in the leg, ordered his death, held a gun on his other subordinates, marooned some/tossed one overboard, threatened to drown the ones that remained... because he was pushed into it, with the same combination of abusive childhood/hostile work environment... would he be equally deserving of that consideration? Would it be an overreaction to call him dangerous?”
Probably, but if everything was the same except Ed Is White Now, his baggage and his relationship with Izzy wouldn’t be exactly the same. Ed's race isn’t inconsequential. We can't really remove race from the story and end up with the same character, y'know?
Also: I do think it’s inappropriate to turn this question back on POC. I don’t think that POC are obligated to reconsider biases against a white character.
“Izzy is crew”
Ed’s relationship to Izzy is not comparable to his relationship with the crew. The crew have done nothing wrong and haven’t behaved antagonistically towards Ed. Izzy and Ed have a complicated, toxic, and difficult relationship (regardless of where you stand on whether or not Izzy’s abusive), therefore any harm caused to Izzy has to be considered differently than harm caused to the rest of the crew.
“Even if we say that he doesn't count, Ed still pushed Lucius off the ship.”
Yes, Ed did do that, but I think that Atticus is talking about Ed’s S2 actions in that point, not what happened in S1. Most (I think all?) meta I’ve read does consider Ed pushing Lucius off the ship an act of violence that Lucius himself did nothing to provoke.
This might be controversial, but I’d put Ed pushing Lucius overboard on par with, like, a particularly unjust firing in a workplace that isn’t a pirate vessel. When we watch OFMD, we have to adjust our physical violence meters to account for the fact that we’re dealing with an environment that’s full of physical violence.
“Also, emotional abuse directed at the rest of the crew is still abuse”
I don't consider Ed emotionally abusive. He works the crew hard. He’s a terrible boss who doesn’t give his employees vacation days or paid time off and then throws them a sad pizza party. That sucks, it’s not okay, and his final death spiral in S2E2 is terrible and he never should have involved the crew in that.
Abuse is a pattern of behavior that’s meant to control people. Not all harm is abuse. When I say that Ed isn't abusive, I'm not saying that he didn't hurt people.
“So... I was raised by a physically and psychologically abusive parent. I get that Ed's been hurt, is still hurting, and why. The "why" doesn't matter for the question of "did he or didn't he", though. It may or may not be his fault, he may or may not have done it because he felt unsafe. The point is, his actions did hurt people.”
Same, friend, and I'm sorry you went through that. (That’s actually one of the reasons I’ve always been wary of Izzy. What he says and does in S1 is too familiar to me, sometimes to a point where I can’t watch certain scenes.) I don’t think anyone’s saying that Ed isn’t hurting anyone, or that all of his actions can be attributed to abuse. If that’s not what you’re getting at here, apologies for misunderstanding.
“His boss that he was trying to control was brown. Was that a factor in his power play though, or was it because Taika wound up being cast as Blackbeard? Any other (white) actor in the role, would Izzy be as bad for trying to control him? Would the scripts have gone a different way?”
Here’s the thing. In the show we have, Blackbeard is played by a Maori/Jewish man, and this fundamentally alters the character. There are things in the show -- whole episodes, if you want to look at S1E5 and the fancy party guests who treat Ed like exotic entertainment and not a peer -- that wouldn’t be the same if Ed was white.
And yeah, Ed being brown changes the dynamic between Ed and Izzy. It would still be bad if a white guy was trying to control another white guy, but it wouldn’t be bad on the same level. Same goes if they were both brown. A white man trying to control the behavior of an indigenous man is worse.
“Izzy got permanently disfigured, crippled, and dead, while Ed came out largely unscathed in a physical sense, due to Muppet logic. Not to say one is more deserving than the other, but for a bunch of fans, there's probably a sense of Izzy getting the short end of the stick, to consider.”
That’s fine if some people feel like Izzy got the short end of the stick. It’s fine that some people feel like Izzy’s arc was kinder to him than it should have been. It’s okay to feel whatever! We connect emotionally to different characters and that biases our opinions and meta. That’s not a crime. We just need to be aware of our biases and why they exist.
The thing with OFMD is that Ed is a main character with more background and a story that, at every turn, asks you to sympathize with him. We’re given a look into Ed’s psyche. We understand at least some of his trauma and hurt and why he acts the way he does. Izzy has virtually no backstory and we’re never offered a glimpse into his mind; we don’t know why he’s like that. You can totally like a secondary character (or even an antagonist!) with no real canonical background or mental groundwork. It’s fun to ask why characters do what they do when canon doesn’t offer us any answers, and who doesn’t love a mystery box?
But with OFMD, it can raise eyebrows when people say their main concern is the suffering of a white man who behaves antagonistically towards a brown man, especially when that brown character is a well-developed lead who also suffers (and suffers at the hands of aforementioned white character). It’s not inherently racist for someone to care more about Izzy than Ed, but it’s also not unreasonable to ask that someone to think about the possibility that subconscious racism could be factoring into their point of view.
“I don't think it's fair discussion to have a rule saying ‘even though you didn't directly call out the brown man, your argument is still racist’... even if it's true in many cases, it effectively means that no criticism of the character can ever be considered valid. If someone wants to argue ‘removing your employee's toes and feeding them to him is abusive behavior’, they can't, because of the unspoken skin colors involved? I don't know what the solution to this is.”
No one is saying that all criticism of a character of color is racist or invalid. As allthinky said in response, we’re saying that “those critiques have to be based on real evidence, and placed in a careful context, so that their actions can be understood as human, and not just the brutality of some brute.”
Criticize, but criticize with evidence and with awareness of the context of the criticized behavior.
With the Izzy example, you have to consider the context of their relationship and Izzy’s actions throughout S1. Izzy isn’t just an employee: he’s a trusted second-in-command who has been insulting, controlling, and disloyal; he endangered not just Stede but also Ed and the rest of the crew; he told Ed that he was better off dead than acting as he was, and that Izzy's loyalty belongs to the violent worksona that Ed wants to shed. Is Ed being abusive when he’s reacting in response to abuse from his abuser?
“[T]he show has layers (like an onion). Sometimes the meaning is not entirely surface-level, and everyone has a different level of comprehension. Sometimes obvious things to us aren't obvious to other fans/vice-versa. There's a whole 'nother discussion of media literacy to be had.”
I think that Atticus said it best here: “This is not a subtle show. That's not to say it's a simple one [...]. It's amazingly layered and emotional responses by characters are often extremely complex. However, when the show is trying to tell you something, it's not subtle and it never tries to hide it.”
There are a lot of things in OFMD that are subjective and open to interpretation, and those things are fun to discuss even when we have different takes. There are also a lot of things that are very clear. When people try to subvert the messages and ideas that OFMD is conveying loudly and openly, other fans get suspicious and wonder if the folks doing the subverting have an agenda, a bias, or just misunderstand what the show is saying.
I hope that reply was sufficient!
#ofmd#edward teach#the izzy problem#hey what tags do people have blocked if they don't want to see stuff like this?#ofmd discourse#fandom racism
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Your JoL posts have been amazing. I've loved posting my thoughts on them at times.
What do you think are Qing di's intentions about Fan Xian? Does he intend to let him succeed him as the emperor?
Thank you!!! I am so obsessed with this drama - to find something that is super smart AND emotionally engrossing at the same time is super rare but this really hits the spot for me.
Re: the emperor. You know, it wouldn’t surprise me if the emperor despite his brains is like many otherwise brilliant absolute rulers and doesn’t truly believe there will be an end to his rule and that he’s bound by mortality (think of England’s Elizabeth I, an amazing ruler who refused to even contemplate appointing heirs properly because it would mean her reign would end sometimes. Or Louis XIV of France who fought half of Europe and built Versailles and ruled for over 70 years and supposedly said “apres moi le deluge.” Or even the founder of the Qin Dynasty who was the first to unite China and yet was so obsessed with immortality his hastened his death taking mercury elixirs.)
I honestly wonder if some of his obsession with finding the Divine Temple isn’t just to get whatever weapons and secrets it may have or even see if he can take down something he can’t control but to see if there is a way to prolong life. If my theory that he’s a grandmaster is correct and Grandmaster Ye said other grandmasters don’t view themselves as human any more then why not escape the human limitation of death too?
But even if that’s not the case, I do not think he’s grooming Fan Xian to take over. First logistics - he’d have to appoint him on his deathbed because there ain’t no way he’s making him a Crown Prince and it’s not because he’s not in the royal family formally (face it, if the emperor wanted to manipulate things so Fan Xian never formally becomes a Fan and is somehow taken into the imperial family, he’d figure it out) or because to remove an appointed crown prince and son of the empress at that is a big deal (because ditto.)
It’s because the Emperor will never allow his Crown Prince to be someone TOO talented, it’s too much of a threat. Crown Prince is bloody minded enough to be an emperor but he’s only the third smartest out of his five sons (and frankly, third Prince is so young the jury is out on how smart the kid is so maybe he’d be smarter too.) Emperor wants someone he can control without expending titanic effort on the matter. Not someone with too many of his own ideas and a way of getting them rammed through.
The emperor is fond of Fan Xian insofar as it’s possible for him to be fond of anyone (which ain’t much - you get the sense he had more of that capacity when young though even there nothing mattered as much as power; if he’s 100% not related to FX’s mom’s death in any capacity I will be shocked) but as his comment in that pitchpot scene after CPP left indicates, to him strong feelings are a nuisance and stupidity and burden. So he’s fond when it costs him nothing important and is even beneficial but the moment Fan Xian steps out of line enough to be an issue or, even worse, the moment he decides he can’t control Fan Xian, he would not hesitate to murder him, fondness or not (in a way, FX loving so many people so much is Fan Xian’s safety - look how many levers the Fans and Wan’er let alone his followers like WQN give the emperor.) Actually, Fan Xian doesn’t even have to do anything super wrong; if the emperor thought it would give him a big enough advantage, he’d probably murder all his kids on the walls of the palace on the “I can make more” principle a la the father of William Marshal.
Ok I blabbed a whole novel but short version: I’d be surprised if he’s grooming Fan Xian to be the next emperor which is just as well since FX would be miserable as one and I hope at the end he gets his wish to live a joyful life traveling the world with Wan’er and enjoying the peace with his family.
Ultimately, I think the emperor wants to use him like he uses everyone and everything to achieve his goals and make his reign stronger and his kingdom stronger and balance the other princes in a stalemate (if his children fight with each other they are too busy to fight him) and just use him use him use him to the utmost just how he does with everyone else.
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there is evil on both sides of the fandom and while it's mostly on twitter and tiktok, they do seem to be making accounts here too. it's so important to call them out/block and report, so this behavior doesn't seem acceptable to anyone else. it's not the majority of people and I pray the creators/actors know that!
not to be that person but while I have a lot of people blocked and muted on both sides... I have to say the bt fans a mostly just being childish, throwing around stupid nicknames (like, seriously guys, stop calling people bobs, it's pathetic and very kindergarten) and adding their unsolicited opinions as if they are facts onto posts about how Eddie will never be queer (cuz they live in the writers room, apparently) and wanting Eddie to die so bt can take Chris (suuuper weird and has rather racist connotations if you ask me)
but the buddie side is sending death threats to LI actors and has been for years, constantly posting about how Tommy needs to die and be stoned and shot and tagging Lou in those posts, sending anon hate and death threats to bt fans here and on twitter, sending yet again death threats to Tim over a deleted scene and stalking Lou's social media obsessively, calling bt fans names that are less than pc, dogpiling poc for liking the character because that's somehow morally acceptable and also breaking into discord servers and now possibly hacking an actual actor's twitter account?
I feel like both sides have issues, but the severity and real life impacts of those issues are vastly different...
and my main heartbreak comes from the fact that while I can block and mute all these people and stay in my bubble... that won't make them disappear and though I hope people on the show only see love and praise for their hard work, there is always a chance for them to see the most vile things and nothing is stopping that.
I mean, just imagine being a barrista and getting death threats by moccha lovers for serving black coffee for someone else?? because at the end of the day, this is how stupid this whole thing is.
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A dead dove fanfic writer here! Something that is annoying me in this fandom is the blatant disrespect that comes from people who expect all fabrics to be fully wholesome and happy. But the truth of the matter is fanfics don't need to always be your cup of tea! the lore of TSAMS/MGFS/LAES isn't a wholesome one its dark and at times borderline disturbing (child abuse, death threats, kidnapping, death, alcoholism, toxic relationships, stalking, even child murder and general murder, and I could go on). People cry about oh this is disturbing boohoo! But example me I heavily tag my stories and give warnings at the beginning of my stories.
At some point the hate and bashing over a FAN FICTION that is MEANT to be taboo and mentally disturbing becomes harassment. I'm a human being, when I'm not writing I babysit, I work on my schoolwork, I am aiming to become a psychologist and am working on getting into college, I bake, I have a normal relationship. I'm a normal person and human being! Just because its something you see as something that shouldn't be written doesn't give you the right to harass authors. Sometimes dead dove stories are written to spread awareness, as a way of coping, or just because they enjoy writing it. Fiction affects real life, but real life affects fiction.
People who get mad over dead dove or darkfic stories between Eclipse and Lunar seem to forget that Eclipse literally abused Lunar you can't make that happy. Read tags, if you don't like it ignore it, try and filter as much as possible, but sites such as 'ao3' and 'fanfiction.net' were made for the purpose of free expression of fandom love. Sometimes the expression is different then what you like or think is ok. But in the end what someone else likes to read or write isn't your business just leave people alone. If you hate what was made to why continue to read it? No ones forcing you to.
This fandom needs to learn that not every fanfic or ship is gonna be normal like they want because frankly not everyone wants to read your Solar x Moon, Monty x Earth, or even Puppet x Foxy vanilla happy fanfics! And that is ok if that is what you enjoy but not everyone does and that is also ok. Stop harassing the darkdove/darkfic/darkship authors in TSBS fandom! We're normal people to.
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#sun and moon show#the sun and moon show#tsams#sams#tsams confession#< block this if you dont want to see these#mod 1blood
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I've been seeing a lot of people downplay the hate the team black actors get in comparison to the hate team green actors get and I'm tired of it. Originally this started because Olivia Cooke gets more hate than anyone who's acting as a character on team black but then I gradually saw it more and more. So let's talk about it starting with Matt Smith. Matt Smith has been getting hate and death threats since the first season because people with tiny brains can't separate the character from the actor.
That hate only got gradually worse when a troll started a rumor that Matt Smith bullied Emma D'Arcy and instead of people actually verifying if this was true or not, they immediately ran with the rumor as a reason to hate on him. So now whenever Matt Smith says anything about the show that they don't like he gets hate despite the fact that his costars regardless of character all speak highly of him. Bethany Antonia has not only received hateful comments, she's also racist comments and it was so bad she responded to the hate she was receiving and this goes for all of the black cast members.
Harry Collett has also received death threats and people have started rumors about how Harry got his role on the show. The constant misgendering of Emma D'Arcy has also been something people have used to insult them, they do it purposely knowing that they're non-binary and these are same people who claim that Matt Smith has bullied Emma and these are also the same people who disrespected Emma's real life partner because they feel like they should leave him to be with Olivia Cooke because once again they can't separate their fanon from reality.
The reality the team black actors have received just as much hate as the team green ones except team green actors won't ever face racism. The team black actors have received death threats, rape threats, have had untrue rumors started about them, racism, homophobia, etc. People need to stop downplaying this and trying to make it seem like they aren't getting as much hate simply because the people claiming they don't spend most of their time on team green stan accounts where they will never see it. It is not a competition, none of these actors deserve the hate they're receiving and just because you support one side more it doesn't mean that the side you're biased towards is getting worse than others. A lot of you need to grow up.
#house of the dragon#hotd#hbo hotd#emma darcy#rhaenyra targaryen#matt smith#daemon targeryan#harry collett#jacaerys velaryon#bethany antonia#baela targaryen#corlys velaryon#steve toussaint#team black#team green#hbo house of the dragon#olivia cooke#alicent hightower#ewan mitchell#aemond targaryen#tom glynn carney#aegon ii targaryen
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Been on another blocking spree today because the vibes in the tags are rancid so let me just say this real quick:
No one is "getting in the way" of buddie going canon, because buddie is not going to be canon. It's already decided. They floated the idea of a Queer Eddie arc and then dropped it, the same way they dropped the floated Eddie/Maddie storyline in season 2.
This is how writing works. Sometimes you have an idea, you try it out, and it just doesn't work. So you rewrite, you change things around, you change storylines. That is how it works.
There is no singular character or actor "getting in the way" because there's nothing to get in the way of.
You don't have to like Tommy. You don't have to like Lou. You don't have to like this arc at all. But you do not have a leg to fucking stand on when you claim that Lou/Tommy is "in the way" of a ship that is never going to be canon.
And frankly, you lost any and all credibility you could've had when you started wishing violence and death on a queer character and sent hate and death threats to the people involved in bringing that queer character back.
Ship whatever the hell you want, but don't make the mistake of thinking that your headcanons outweigh or control the writers decisions. Fandom is less than 2% of the overall audience. We are not the majority here. All you're doing with your little tantrums online is giving the fandom as a whole a bad name, and making yourselves seem unhinged and dangerous. Is that the reputation you want?
#fandom etiquette#911 fandom#911blr#911 abc#i swear yall think this show is some grand slow burn romance fic and its just NOT#99% of the scenarios yall come up with are wildly out of character and out of touch with canon#“ooh but couch theory! lasagne theory!” key word: THEORY. not truth not fact not canon.#as of right now: eddie is straight. thats canon. that is fact.#could it change down the line? maybe but dont hold your breath for it#none of this is serious enough for yall to be bitching the way you are#settle the fuck down
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Hi if you attack people for simply shipping shit you dislike (excluding proships, specifically ships you just dont like for little to no reason) you are extremely dotish and you need to grow a pair ok bye
Also before i get attacked for someone taking this wrong, this excludes ships fictives/fictionkins or anyone else dislike from just being uncomfortable, i mean just “YOU SHIP THIS SHIP I DONT SEE APPEAL IN THAT ISNT A PROSHIP? BLOCKED! YOU MAKE ME SICK! DEATH THREAT DEATH THREAT DEATH THREAT”
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hey so didn’t think i would have to say this but i’m deleting this blog as y’all are actually not able to get a fucking joke. listen, i have nothing but respect for direct dogman and literally everything i say on here is the OPPOSITE of what me and dogman believe. maybe that’s why it’s called EVIL direct dogman
even if you think the humour on this blog is in poor taste then maybe just block me ? just a thought?? instead of leaving this stuff in my inbox
other than this i have gotten countess death threats and people telling me to kms. i have no clue what you think you’re doing other than making yourself look like a clown for hating on a CLEAR JOKE ACCOUNT
anyway sorry for the long rant post, ima delete this account later today and if ya wanna know owner of the blog is @cenri-monpi
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Gege's payoff followed by setup problem, and why Shibuya Arc is still their finest writing.
Gege's writing structure has become so reliant on catching the readers by surprise that they just won't tell anything to the reader. Going into Gojo vs sukuna and the fight fest it's been since, readers have no clue of if there was any strategic/tactical planning happening (outside of Yuuji training with Kusakabe which is sloowwly coming back to the limelight).
The current buildup by adding emphasis to Sukuna and Yuuji and their dynamic, Yuuji's rage and loneliness and loss, only to bring in a Gojo-Yuuta vs Sukuna part 2 electric boogaloo. Which imo is another fight that has no interesting overarching commentary/themes outside of being the promised shounen strong vs strong fight, in a power system already criticised by both sides for being flawed.
It feels like Gege uses shock value and people eating absolutely anything up if it's about their fav, to bypass any meaningful setup.
The reason why Shibuya had the effect of absolute gutwrenching loss and defeat, is because it was setup so deliciously done. We'd seen the villains literally experiment their ideas with the veils on our heroes with the sister-school event, we've seen them talk about their plan with a lot of details, and how eventually they tweaked it to work better with their new knowledge.
We've seen that the mastermind might be someone from Gojo's past since they talk about how they cant be seen by Gojo, then you have jjk0 which shows the rift and the death of that someone (intrugue! Theyre still alive?? They're still on the bad side with that ending??) , following which you have Hidden Inventory where you see the bond and what caused the rift.
And ONLY THEN do you have everything fall into place when Kenjaku appears and Gojo is tricked because you were tricked alongside Gojo even tho as the reader almost everything was right in plain sight with just the lack of some context. Even the inconsistencies between Suguru's and now revealed Kenjaku's behaviour makes sense.
Althought the setup happened rather non-linearly, all of it was still always before the payoff. And boy, does it pay off.
And when things didn't go according to the villains' well thought out plans, it was still just such a seen yet unforeseen turn of events. We didn't know Yuuji would be fed so many of Sukuna's fingers that Sukuna would take over, but Sukuna taking over was an underlying threat that has been constant throughout the story and it just so happened to take place then).
Everything since the culling games has felt like things just happening one after the other. Short term goals that our protagonists had to complete since no one knew what was even happening. An entire year's worth of chapters of not seeing our protagonists and following new people who didn't/haven't yet done anything to truly warrant that much undivided paneltime. Anyone remember the US gov subplot? Did i dream that?
The last genuinely set up but still pretty shocking event was Sukuna using their binding vow and taking over Yuuji's body only to then take over Megumi's. We knew he wanted Megumi's power and the binding vow was another underlying threat since Yuuji's first death that was waiting to happen. Abrupt? Yes. But it was something hinted happening.
By no means am I saying that the reader should be told everything, that's not how writing works, but have enough at least fall into place when things are revealed instead of showing the puzzle completed then picking out puzzle pieces to show it individually and putting them back. A couple of panels where a character says something vague where you as the reader don't even know if it's something to take into account is NOT good set up.
#this isn't very coherently written im aware but I HAVE THOUGHT AND AM BAD WITH EXPRESSING THEM WELL#saw someone say that when ch 261 is animated its gonna be so much worse and i laughed out louds#huhhh!!???#character specific fans of media are so funny gosh#but good for you#clearly im the one at loss since i don't get to enjoy things anymore#but oh well#its just sad seeing jjk become just another fighting shounen#it always was but it was so much more#anyway im sad#still sticking around too see Yuuji's arc to comepletion and if that at least is satisfying enough#but i try not to have hopes anymore#i still love these characters tho man cant even hate it so mhch that i compeletky dete#*detatch from it like i did with ****#oof#anyway#jjk meta#Akutami Gege#jjk#jjk spoilers#jjk manga spoilers#shibuya arc#itadori yuuji#sukuna#gojo satoru#kenjaku#satosugu#no nickel for niinnyu's thoughts
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