#but I would rather have that then Sansa suffering | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

mzminola · 1 year

Text

A Song of Ice & Fire AU idea: Jon is the only boy Stark of his generation. Ned & Cat have five daughters.

Robert "steamroller" Baratheon arrives in Winterfell to demand Ned be his new Hand and to engage his eldest son to Ned's eldest daughter. When Ned points out Robb is Ned's heir apparent and future Lady Paramount of the North, and therefore can't marry Joffrey and be Queen of the Seven Kingdoms, Robert just goes "Well I'm sure that son of yours will be excellent as Lord Paramount, seeing as how you raised him Ned!" and promptly legitimizes Jon.

Catelyn is furious about this, right up until Robb quietly goes "Aw, but I wanted to marry Theon," at which point Catelyn is still furious but also 100% onboard with the Robb-Joffrey betrothal.

Bran still gets pushed out a window. But now Arya & Rickon are both there with him after Catelyn leaves.

Sansa still goes to King's Landing, but this time it's as her older sister's companion. Gray Wind and Lady probably survive the journey? But I'm not sure if they'd be allowed in the city let alone the Red Keep, they might have to go hang out in the King's Woods.

Jon is obviously not at the Wall now. The weeks between "King Robert & Ned & company leave Winterfell" and "Catelyn leaves because of the knife" are TENSE AS HELL.

I am honestly not sure how the war goes. Baelish is still up to all his machinations. Sansa has been treated differently because she's not the Presumed Future Princess so she wouldn't go to Cersei when Ned orders her to pack, and I can't imagine Robb doing so, but Ned tipped his hand to Cersei all on his own so that probably doesn't make a difference. The presence or absence of direwolves might.

Jon obviously wants to avenge his dad and rescue his sisters, and Catelyn wants that too, but she is nooot down with him being King in the North and he doesn't trust her to give good counsel (though he still yearns for her approval) so that whole plot is ripe for disaster.

#I left all the kids' names the same for clarity #in an actual full fic their longforms would be a bit different though they might manage to keep the nicknames #what Theon is up to depends on how close Jon's decisions are regarding him to Robb's canon ones #and what Theon gets up to affects how shit goes down at Winterfell #etc etc #fic ideas #A Song of Ice and Fire #Sansa might have been spending more time with Myrcella while Robb was suffering Joffrey's company #Jeyne Poole or a slightly older girl of similar position would still go #rather than Arya because Ned is not taking more than two of his kids south at a time #oh shit Jon 'I never want to sire a bastard' Stark is not gonna have the Jeyne Westerling arc that Robb did #what does THAT change #do either Robb or Sansa make it out of King's Landing or are they both hostages #if Robb is a hostage she is going to make the Lannisters REGRET

116 notes · View notes

swordsandarms · 10 months

Text

Man, I forgot how fucked up the scene was and how malicious Septa Mordane is with Arya specifically. You will have people write about how she is some struggling teacher with a peevish tongue sticking student. But she actually brought a child to tears and tried to force her to be seen sobbing in front of her peers.

1. This is not a helpful teacher going around her students to check their work and give advice. She targets Arya specifically (Marcella's work was also imperfect, but she has no power over Myrcella). Her tirade is straight up theatrical and loud on purpose. She doesn't point out what's wrong and how to fix it. It's all about putting Arya down.

2. Myrcella, a visitor, is made uncomfortable and feels sorry for Arya. But for the girls in Winterfell this seems to be a routine. They have been desensitized to this malicious behaviour (Sansa) or even find it typical entertainment (Jeyne).

3. She brings the little girl to tears. There is nothing worse for a child than to be seen crying, especially with strangers around, so Arya tries to leave. The Septa wants her to stay to endure that further humiliation. She is very visibly crying. No "go calm down and wipe your face and then you can return to your work" as some normal teacher/adult might do in such a situation while remaining stern. This is plain cruel.

4. She weaponizes Myrcella's presence to add up to how Arya is "doing everything wrong". Arya tries to "act right" by taking her leave from the Princess. Myrcella is further made uncomfortable by this whole situation, and how she's pushed at the front this way. And the Septa immediately intercepted before Myrcella could or couldn't give Arya leave by making it clear it wasn't about Myrcella - it's about cruelly keeping Arya there to suffer the humiliation of crying in front of her peers, no ifs or maybes. And, again, that is also at the detriment of the guests' comfort, as they are made uncomfortable already and moreso if they had to stay there to hear/watch this girl cry. Creating Arya discomfort is more important, though.

5. Arya's one bold ("misbehaving") act is the horse shoe bit, but we later find out that in such purely denigrating tirades meant only to make Arya feel bad about herself instead of constructive feedback on how to mend her work, the septa would tell her she has "a blacksmith's hands", turning it into a personal fault rather than the technicality of how to do the work.

Vile.

#asoiaf #arya stark

235 notes · View notes

mhsdatgo · 4 months

Note

Since GOT they’ve been using rape and abuse to humble or break a woman/Girl because they aren’t the “right” kind of woman. They don’t ride a dragon or yield a sword. They don’t fight against their period typical role in life that they were born and raised in. They’re not “A guys girl” or the “I don’t have any girl friends, they’re too much drama” types who prefer the company of men to women, who would rather train with a sword and not learn embroidery. They don’t have dialogue that vaguely sounds more 21st century than Middle Ages.

These women are seen as of less value than our little dragon riding, sword and fist fighting tomboys. So they need to be taught that if you had just been more like this or more like that you wouldn’t have been brutalized and abused. The things that were done to you by other people is all your fault and you deserved it.

This show/franchise is not even in the same room as feminism.

👏👏👏 Nothing more to add anon. No lie was told.

The sad thing is, this is not what I got from the books of asoiaf at all. Women's experience was never told in juxtaposition to others. There is no humbling or brutalizing other women as a "punishment" for not being better, more rebellious, or bolder than others. The books tell stories of suffering and that's it. The way shows and fandoms decide to try and force other characters into another one's story for the sole purpose of comparing them so they prove that stanning one means having a moral high ground over another character's stans is the most idiotic thing to ever have happened among fandoms, to say the least. Especially when the two characters in question don't even know each other.

Just look at the way Sansa and Dany are treated in the fandom. Have a shot for every time Sansa in King's Landing is called a tradwife as if this wasn't a girl in middle school trying to survive they're talking about, or for every time she's called jealous of Dany. Imagine if a stranger girl with three dragons cames knocking on your door demanding that you and all of your people and their mama bend the knee to her and you are the jealous one and the villain because you just... Don't? Also, you deserve to be threatened with death when you pose a reasonable question, and you need to take it and be better and shut up. Then you're a "girls' girl" deserving of respect, etc.

We want strong female characters to think for themselves, except when that "thinking for oneself" isn't the same thing as kissing the ground the fan favourite girl walks on.

If only fandoms paid more mind to what makes a character likeable or unlikeable in their eyes BASED ON THE CHARACTER ITSELF, and not on their perspective on their faves, interacting with them would be way more fun. Books/shows like asoiaf/GOT or F&B/HotD aren't places where you just choose a character you like and that's it, she's an icon she's a legend and she is the moment. If it was, it would either be a story for kids or a hell for Mare Sues' fans. As long as you treat asoiaf characters like deities that can do no wrong and everyone else as villains in need of redemption, you should step back and read something else.

This is something that needs to be accepted even between writers and directors, btw. Just look at what F&B was turned into. Girlboss vs Girlfail. Blacks got the Girlboss, the virtuous rightful heir, good mother fine ruler, Greens' got the Girlfail, the rape enabler, the boy mom, the tradwife, you name it.

No, it doesn't matter that the latter is doing everything she can possibly do. She was a piece of shit the moment she stopped toiling behind the former because everyone is meant to be like or kneel before girlboss with dragon. Only then are your ambitions respectable. If not, fuck you, you're nothing. Everything that happens to you is your fault. I'll be in the front seats cheering for when everything you love is ripped brutally from you.

Even when your grown-up son rapes a maid. Even when girlboss with dragon threatens to put your people to the torch because you won't bend the knee.

TL;DR: There's no need to compare/stone certain female characters for being what they are instead of a completely different type. If all of them were tomboyish with swords or feminine with embroidery, it would be boring. You aren't better than anyone for having preferences. Also, learn how to blame men when they fuck up. It's great for the bowel.

#hotd #got #asoiaf #fire and blood #daenerys targaryen #sansa stark #alicent hightower #rhaenyra targaryen

104 notes · View notes

aphroditelovesu · 6 months

Note

Not a request I just wanna hear your thoughts on it, but what do you think the dynamic would be with Yan!mom Sansa with her and Ramsay’s daughter?

And she’s a daddies girl through and through.

I think I already talked about this once, but meh 💅🏻 I'm always willing to talk about concepts and yan!got 👀

Sansa would have strong feelings towards her daughter. She doesn't blame her for what she suffered at Ransay's hand, no, her bby isn't to blame for anything. The only one to blame was Ramsay. Sansa sees her daughter as a breath of fresh air, the answer amid an abyss of pain and loneliness.

She always wanted to be a mother and although the circumstances and the way her baby was conceived are not ideal, she still loves you. With everything in her.

You are her salvation in the midst of so much pain, so much suffering that she went through. Having seen her father beheaded, her family murdered, being forced to marry Ramsay. Sansa would be on the verge of despair, but then she found out about her pregnancy and she was a little happier.

Maybe not as much as expected from a woman who has just discovered she is pregnant, but a small hope rose in Stark's chest. And when you were born, Sansa cried with happiness.

Sansa is a very protective and even strict mother, she has been through a lot of bad things and she doesn't want you to go through the least. No, she would rather commit the most heinous crime than allow you to go through the same things she went through.

She loves you with everything in her, she would give and do anything for you. She would pamper you unconditionally, but she would always have a touch of reality, she would tell you how cruel and dangerous the world is, how you should always stay by her side. Basically being a bit of Disney's Gothel.

She hates Ramsay with all her might and if you were attached to him, may the gods be good! Sansa doesn't want you to have anything to do with Ramsay, she wants you as far away from him as possible.

Ramsay, on the other hand, wants to have more contact with you. You are his daughter, his legitimate daughter, and he has a greater right to you than Sansa, according to the laws of Westeros. He loves you, in his own way, but he does and only wants what's best for you. And what's best for you is to stay with him.

He would be a huge hypocrite, wanting to protect you from people like him, even worse than him. You are the apple of his eye, so precious and so perfect. Ramsay has to take care of you.

There would definitely be a more serious fight between these two for you. The Battle of the Bastards would not only be about reclaiming Winterfell from the Boltons and avenging the Red Wedding, but it would also be for you. Especially if you were with Ramsay during this time.

Now I want to write about it 😟🥺😭

~ Lady L

#ask #concept #a song of ice and fire #asoiaf #yandere concept #yandere game of thrones #got #game of thrones #yandere got #yandere sansa stark #yandere ramsay bolton

139 notes · View notes

queenaryastark · 6 months

Text

It's actually interesting examining Stansas and their absurdity.

A lot has already been said about the fact that Sansa was created specifically to bully Arya. That's already been proven and is a fact.

But what's interesting to think about here are the different ways Stansas will attempt to excuse what can't be excused. Here are the tactics I've noticed:

Stansas will lie that Arya is actually the one who bullied her foil. I'm actually surprised this person didn't go with that tactic since they have ST's mug as their icon, which suggests they rely on Benioff and Weiss' inaccurate adaptation where Arya was shown as the aggressor toward the character who was specifically created to bully her. Regardless, this excuse relies on ignoring the books in favor of published fanfic. The books show that Arya is bullied by her foil.

Stansas will lie that Arya "gave as good as she got". Now, this one requires a little bit of accepting that bullying occurred but tries to decrease the concession by putting blame on Arya as well. This is still factually untrue. All bullying in this dynamic is only coming from one direction: from Sansa to Arya. What Arya endures is name calling, being told she's unwanted, being told her life is worth less than an animal's, having her appearance likened to an animal's, being casually insulted just in the flow of conversation, having a murdered friend of hers victim blamed as a taunt, etc. There are exactly zero examples of Arya treating Sansa this way. The closest they try to come to providing an example is using Arya's grief over Mycah where Sansa was victim blaming him for his maiming and murder. But that's not evidence of anything other than Sansa's malicious nature.

Stansas might transfer blame exclusively onto Jeyne Poole. Again, this requires admitting that bullied occurred. Rather than blame Arya, Jeyne is presented as the only bully or as a bad influence on Sansa 🤣. Again, this is incorrect. Jeyne is a member of the lower nobility. In a world where Sansa didn't exist, there is a 0% chance Jeyne would ever dare to bully the daughter of a high lord. Even if she tried, that first attempt would be cut off at the knees due to the difference in rank between Arya and Jeyne. It's Sansa's bullying of Arya that gives Jeyne permission to join her, since she is also a high lord's daughter, and Jeyne is able to follow her lead. So Jeyne’s blame in the treatment of Arya is far less than Sansa’s. But isn't it funny how quick they are to throw Jeyne under the bus? I guess that's on brand for Stansas since Sansa was canonically relieved that Jeyne, her dearest friend, was given over to a pimp because it meant she could read without having to hear her crying.

In the case of the person I screencapped, they attempt to excuse bullying as normal in order to strip away Sansa's complexity and purpose. They even tried to project their fav's behavior onto real people instead of just Arya and Jeyne. It's been proven that bullying has a long-term negative impact on the person who endures the bully. GRRM seems to understand this as shown in how he depicts Arya and her bullies. We see how her schooling suffers and she has a negative self-image, which results in her tolerating additional bullying from others as if it was something required of her (she only speaks up with Hot Pie and Lommy when she thinks they're insulting Jon). Studies have shown that the impact of being bullied as a child can stay with a person well into adulthood. So by trying to normalize it, not only are Stansas proving what terrible people they are, they're showing that they aren't capable of accurately analyzing the text nor understanding basic character development. In short, they're wrong.

If Stansas actually enjoyed Sansa as a character, they would embrace her complexity rather than doing mental gymnastics to pretend she's one-dimensional. But then I'd lose out on seeing their ridiculous trends in bad takes.

#arya stark #asoiaf

79 notes · View notes

redwolf17 · 6 months

Note

So i'm curious why did you decide to kill Tyrion at the Blackwater. Don't get me wrong I despise Tyrion and he deserves all the humiliation and rejections he gets in Storm. I was just asking because I wondered how Tyrion would have reacted to Sansa calling Tywin a cowardly oathbreaker in public.

Hi anon! Totally a fair question. Someone else also asked about Tyrion recently over on Ao3, so I'm gonna copy/paste my answer.

GRRM loves Tyrion so, so much.

I… do not. While Tyrion is a very well written character, I do not enjoy him. Yes, Tyrion has his moments of kindness and generosity, he has some witty lines and compelling scenes... but I just cannot get over how vicious he can be. Yes, he suffered horrific abuse from Tywin which informs his determination to punch down against others. Yes, the ableism he faces sucks, and no one should have to endure it. That informs his actions; he is not cruel solely for the sake of being cruel.

But. But. This is a man whose reaction to Tywin's slaughter of Masha Heddle for the crime of being a hepless bystander was to reproach her pitiful corpse for events completely beyond her control. This is a man who sent Bronn to grab Shae (or rather, the prettiest whore he could find) like he was shopping for a carpet; Tyrion's chapters are steeped in some of the worst misogyny of any POV. Yes, Cersei is an incompetent asshole, but Tyrion constantly antagonizes her to his own detriment (just as he antagonized Catelyn and Lysa previously), and his contempt for Cersei and his "jokes" about wanting to rape her are disgusting. This is a man who creeped on the "beautiful" 12 year old Sansa throughout ACOK and BARELY managed not to rape her during ASOS.

I swear, the show whitewashes Tyrion so aggressively, people forget that in the books Tyrion made Sansa strip naked, HE stripped naked, he groped her breast, he made her look at his naked, erect penis, and only then, when he saw how terrified/repulsed Sansa was, did he finally stop. Not because he suddenly grew a conscience, but because he resented Sansa for not wanting him, for not pretending to want him, and blamed it on his looks/dwarfism rather than acknowledging she would have likely been just as terrified with ANY Lannister, because she's a 12 year old hostage facing imminent rape!

Tyrion murders Shae for the crime of being in Tywin's bed, as if she had any choice about being there. He resents her for testifying against him, as if Shae, a random sex worker, could have said no to Cersei and refused to bear witness. He wants to burn the whole Vale of Arryn in retribution for Lysa being a dick which, yes, she was, but his desire for retribution is outsized to say the least). Tyrion consistently resents the smallfolk for not worshipping him even though he puts 0 effort into PR whatsoever. He threatens the bedwarmer in Illyrio's house with rape and murder; he DOES rape the poor "sunset girl" later at a brothel.

GRRM loves Tyrion as a grey-and-getting-darker villain, and gives him some of the most unnecessary, bloated chapters throughout the series. GRRM sees Tyrion offer crumbs of kindness to Jon, to Bran, and thinks that somehow tips the scales against all the terrible things Tyrion does. But what other good things does Tyrion do? Like, I'm not giving him a medal for not raping Sansa, not raping terrified 12 year old girls is a LOW bar to clear! What other good deeds has Tyrion done?

Aaaaanyway, after all that rambling, here's my thoughts on Tyrion in TWQ. I really, REALLY had no interest in doing a twist on his book canon arc, which meant my options for what to do with him were pretty open. I could have done a redemption arc, but frankly, I didn't want to. It would require a LOT of time and effort to do it properly, and plenty of other fics have "redeemed" Tyrion (although usually by ignoring his vicious misogyny rather than by confronting it; or they just depict him as heroic from the start because the show nuked his characterization).

And I had zero interest in making Tyrion an ongoing villain, which is the approach some other fics have taken. Reading his ADWD chapters is punishment enough, let alone trying to write something that grotesque. Not to mention the... uh... not so great history of fiction often ignoring disabled people except to depict them as villains or helpless, agency-free pawns like poor Lollys Stokeworth. GRRM... sorta tries to handle disability with nuance, but I don't think he always hits the mark. Side note, Paul the Pious, Edythe, Bran, Jaime, and a plethora of disabled side characters both good and bad are my effort to push back on that trend.

So, by Part II, I already had a vague idea that TWQ was going to spiral into a larger tale, and I knew that doing anything with Tyrion after Part II would require a LOT of work I wasn't interested in doing. So... I decided not to do it. Writing fanfic is a hobby for fun, and developing an entire Tyrion arc I found worth telling did not sound fun. Especially since I knew I was going to force myself to tackle both Dany in Essos and the Others, which were/are a headache and a half but essential to the overall story. So... karma bit Tyrion in the ass, and a combo of his wildfire (which he used on his own men!) and Cersei (maybe breaking her arm was a bad idea?) finished him off.

#the weirwood queen #always enjoy a good ask #anti tyrion lannister #tyrion lannister

44 notes · View notes

sailorshadzter · 5 months

Text

finding happiness.

inspired by a prompt list

She stands in the center of the broken room, stained-glass window shards littering the floor at her feet.

For many reasons, she’s never expected to return to this place, to ever stand in this room again- even if it no longer looked like the room she once knew. It is different, utterly destroyed, the blue sky open above her from where the roof caved in. Gone was the Iron Throne, melted to a puddle that she can see when she turns the other way, but she chooses to continue forward. That throne meant nothing to her now.

Where the beautiful windows once stood, there is nothing but wide open space, the remnants of the town the only sight she can see from where she can stand. From below she can hear the voices crying, those calling out to find the loved ones they were still missing, the sound of it all breaking her heart. The wind whips past, reminding her of that time in the moon door, but somehow there’s no fear of falling. Not anymore.

“Sansa?”

She turns at the familiar voice, a wane smile curving on her lips at the sight of the man standing there. He shaved his face clean once more, his dark curls clean and secured at the back of his head in a knot; this was the man she recalls from every dark night, the man who erased all of her fears, the man who saved her in more ways than just one. “I wondered where you had gone off to,” he continues, closing the gap between them, though he longs to draw her just a little further from the broken edge of the room. They’ve spent the last few days here in King’s Landing, the hours long and hollow, the aftermath of this war far worse than all of the rest. Like her, he hears the cries from down below and it sickens him to his very core.

“I wanted to see things for myself,” she admits, softly, casting her blue eyes around the room, the ghosts within all reaching for her at once. She shivers and when she feels the touch to her hand, it is not a ghost at all, but it is Jon. “Tyrion says the rebuilding will begin at once,” she goes on after she’s let out a long breath. Jon nods, but does not release her hand; that makes her happy. “That’s what they deserve,” softer still, turning ever so slightly so she might look again out past the broken panes of stained-glass, to where down below they hear the wailing of a child. Jon’s first ruling had been to ensure the rebuilding of King’s Landing at once, all the while providing shelter for the commonfolk through the buildings that remained standing, as well as tents provided by the many Houses of Westeros. It would take time, but soon enough the people of King’s Landing would have homes to return to.

“It’s the least I can do,” he says, grief darkening his eyes. He’s not forgotten what it’s taken to get here. His one wish was that things could have been different, that the people of King’s Landing did not have to suffer the consequences of a war that meant nothing to them. In the end, Daenerys and Cersei both had to be stopped, it was true, and he feels no remorse for the blood he spilt in this very room… But the innocents of the realm, they did not deserve to suffer because of a power struggle. He can only hope that from his reign he can please them and ensure they know he will not be the King they are used to having. He can only hope to give them hope once more, just as he’s given it to her.

He smiles then, taking in the sight of her, the warm feel of her hand in his bringing him comfort. She’s lovely in her black gown, her furs left behind, but still yet every in a Northern Queen, every inch a Stark. It was a long time coming, but King’s Landing would finally have their beautiful Stark Queen, but she would walk on the arm of a Northern born Targaryen King, rather than the once golden prince of Lannister blood. “What is it?” She asks, coming closer, noticing his stare.

Jon can’t help but to draw her in, his other arm sneaking around her waist. No longer would they ever have to hide the affection they felt for each other, instead, he could love her openly, he could love her loudly, he could love her proudly, as he’s always wanted to do. “I was just admiring your beauty,” he admits with a grin and she’s blushing crimson beneath his gaze, a soft laugh tumbling free from her rosy lips. Pulling his hand from hers, he cannot help but to touch the curve of her cheek, her skin like silk beneath his palm, his thumb tenderly stroking her smiling lips. The road to this place, to this moment was a long, arduous one, the path carved by grief and love, war and hope. But in the end, they’d found their way.

When he leans in to kiss her, she’s already waiting, knowing that from this moment on, they would only find happiness.

#jonsa #actuallyjonsa #jon x sansa #i wrote this #my writing

32 notes · View notes

esther-dot · 5 months

Note

What upsets me the most about the dumbass Sansa vs Arya thing (other than it only existing because antis hate Sansa that much) is that... what does it add to the story? This isn't fandom stuff, this is something antis genuinely want for the story, but what does it ADD? What is the POINT? What value does these 2 siblings fighting against each other would give to the story? To the message and theme? It's even more worthless than the boring Cleganebowl shit.

Sansa and Arya, two siblings from the main family of the series that the story centers on, fighting and hating each other is detrimental to literally EVERYTHING. ASOIAF is LOADED with family dynamics that are actually toxic and destructive to the members. We have the Targaryens, we have the Greyjoys, we have the LANNISTERS. Westeros is so bereft of families that love each other, making the ONE family that genuinely love each other and doing their best to reunite hate each other is so... just spit on GRRM and the effort he put into House Stark, why don't you?

I don't want to sound like a pretentious ass, but these people should not read a series like ASOIAF if they're gonna let their petty feelings and opinions impact the series as a whole. They can hate Sansa, but if they hate her to the point where it impacts their reading of the series, then put it down and go read something simpler. Or just stick to fanfics because their disturbing hate fantasy will never be canon, sorry antis

(about this ask)

I talked about this before and now can’t find the post, but Arya and Jon fans who hate Sansa are holding her responsible for the problems with society that Martin is criticizing. They are missing that society is being criticized from different angles to allow us to see all the ways it’s hurting people. Rather than realizing it isn’t the little girl who caused their pain, with them we are getting two critiques (coming from different directions) of their world. Jon is excluded, Arya is expected to conform.

Jon wants in, Arya wants out.

And of course, Sansa suffers as well. She may fulfill the ideal in a way that Arya cannot, but that doesn’t save her. We have Elia and Lyanna which is another picture of conformity/non-conformity —both of them die. There is a much larger part of the story here that is the driving force of what these characters suffer, it’s a shame to dismiss all of that in order to hate on Sansa.

I have no gatekeeping instinct. I’m happy to read different takes (within reason — absolutely no Sansa hate which is why I don’t do much with anyone beyond our corner), I have read and written Martin critical stuff, I don’t mind people coming away with different interpretations. I enjoy that (within reason), and that’s a part of who I am beyond fandom so that isn’t gonna change. I simply decide, “well, I certainly never want to hear from that blogger/that part of the fandom again,” but as far as I know, they’re an angry 13yo who will reread the series in a year or two and realize, oh, the Sansa and Arya conflict is created by external forces, and actually, they can understand the pressures Sansa struggled with as well. I’m a big fan of leaving room for growth, and literature has a special way of allowing us to see things in new ways and helping us evolve as I individuals. I’d never be in favor of taking it away from anyone no matter how much I think they misunderstand it. You never know what the future holds and if one day, they’ll get it.

Also, I don’t have a perfect grasp on what Martin is doing myself. The endgame of some of the characters strikes me as….uh, less realistic, and more, whimsical, so unless I’m gonna throw out my books, I’m not gonna pretend to be more deserving than any one else. I will filter and block though because when it comes to Sansa haters:

making the ONE family that genuinely love each other and doing their best to reunite hate each other is so... just spit on GRRM and the effort he put into House Stark, why don't you?

So, uh, not to annoy you further, anon, but I didn’t call what I had written “wish-fulfillment” for nothing. 😬 I definitely think expecting the Starks to kill each other is absurd, but as a Jonsa, I’m not sure how Arya would be able to accept that relationship, and I do wonder if it’s Martin’s way of allowing tension and conflict within the Starks even upon their reunion. Maybe I worry for nothing, but Jon is Arya’s person, he made her feel love and accepted, for him to be in love with Sansa…I worry that Arya would feel displaced, and how quickly Martin would find a resolution there.

Many others have previously looked at how Martin seems to have no problem writing brothers / guys having healthy relationships, but likes to have sisters at odds. There’s a dearth of healthy female relationships, so it’s an opportunity for him to break that pattern, and if Arya was accepting of it I suppose it could be a contrast to the Cat/LF/Lysa mess. That may be the goal he’s working towards, and to your point, that adds to the story in sadly lacking area. All the same, while I do think the Starks love and will be loyal to each other, I’m not sure how warm and cozy things will be on the page? I have some concerns about what he’s making room for. But that is the benefit of being in a fandom with so many emotionally mature fic writers who value and prioritize female relationships. I get to read healthy relationships either way!

#dot chat

26 notes · View notes

abrideofdrogons · 9 months

Note

I remembered something. It’s from the wretched season. The two hacks had Dany say “I’ve never begged for anything” which contradicted how she said in S2 “I’m begging you”. Those two really were inconsistent with their own story weren’t they? But I also don’t like the implications. I think they were trying to portray Dany as this arrogant and prideful woman who was so proud that she wouldn’t beg for anything or be humble. And they clearly wanted to portray her “begging for the first time” as her being selfish. Those two hacks never understood her character. They didn’t understand any of the characters. I take satisfaction knowing their wretch awful season burned their show and their careers to the ground. I just hope GRRM will finish the books and give the story and characters the writing and hopefully ending they deserve. I have a lot of hope that Dany will get a good ending in the books

it’s surprising that they forgot they had daenerys begging for things as well considering how badly they intentionally butchered her season two arc. rather than showcasing her as a queen who is learning how to navigate court, they have daenerys demanding to be let in & given things because she has dragons which is not something that happens in the books since the qartheen come looking for her instead. the thing is, there’s nothing “wrong” with begging for help. for example, daenerys’s major goal starting from a clash of kings where she begins learning how to maneuver politically is to find ships. she doesn't like to beg, but she isn't above it.

“Xaro Xhoan Daxos would be no help to her, she knew that now. For all his professions of devotion, he was playing his own game, not unlike Pyat Pree. The night he asked her to leave, Dany had begged one last favor of him. “An army, is it?” Xaro asked. “A kettle of gold? A galley, perhaps?” Dany blushed. She hated begging. “A ship, yes.” Xaro’s eyes had glittered as brightly as the jewels in his nose. “I am a trader, Khaleesi. So perhaps we should speak no more of giving, but rather of trade. For one of your dragons, you shall have ten of the finest ships in my fleet. You need only say that one sweet word.” “No,” she said.” DAENERYS V, A CLASH OF KINGS

i think it’s important to note that only daenerys’s begging in seen as humiliating because it comes across as petulant. she doesn’t want to “share” the throne. she is so manipulative & convincing that she would “overpower jon” should he give into her, despite tyrion successfully talking jon into murdering daenerys because she kills “evil men”. in comparison, jon spends several seasons begging for more soldiers at the wall. he & sansa both partake in begging northern houses to help them in their cause to retake winterfell. daenerys parallels mostly with gendry begging arya to love him rather than being a fully-fleshed out character within season eight. his only purpose is to love arya, be made the trueborn son of robert & do little else.

what d&d forgot repeatedly is that dany is a negotiator before she is a beggar. her worth is in her many titles: the mother of dragons, the bride of dragons, the rightful heir to the iron throne. she negotiates one dragon for an army of unsullied. she negotiates her own marriage for peace in meereen. for all the repeated foreshadowing within season seven & eight, daenerys should have successfully negotiated a marriage pact with the king in the north, especially once learning about his true birth so that claims of him being the true inheritor of the throne could be avoided. but d&d would rather humiliate her character.

it’s misogyny that they have daenerys begging jon repeatedly throughout season eight to not tell anyone, to love her, to be with her even in the moments leading up to her death. she’s presented as a dreamy fool stuck between tyrion’s all-knowing genius & jon’s impeccable honor. even though they’re all painfully watered down, daenerys suffers the most & becomes a fridged woman so that jon can mourn her painstakingly over the last twenty minutes of the final episode to show just how torn he is about doing “the right thing.”

#daenerys targaryen #pro daenerys targaryen #anti got #anti d&d #got critical #jon snow #tyrion lannister #whitedragonwolf4961 #im not tagging s / an / sa; im scared of her show fans LOL

30 notes · View notes

silverflameataraxia · 2 months

Text

Perhaps I will die too, she told herself, and the thought did not seem so terrible to her. If she flung herself from the window, she could put an end to her suffering, and in the years to come the singers would write songs of her grief. Her body would lie on the stones below, broken and innocent, shaming all those who had betrayed her. Sansa went so far as to cross the bedchamber and throw open the shutters...but then her courage left her, and she ran back to her bed, sobbing.

- Sansa VI, AGoT

Those who betrayed her? What about her betraying her family? Does she still not take any responsibility for her actions?

Sansa stared at him, seeing him for the first time. He was wearing a padded crimson doublet patterned with lions and a cloth-of-gold cape with a high collar that framed his face. She wondered how she could ever have thought him handsome. His lips were as soft and red as the worms you found after a rain, and his eyes were vain and cruel. "I hate you," she whispered.

- Sansa VI, AGoT

If only Sansa had listened to Arya rather than hating on her and abusing her, how different would this story have turned out? Rather than calling Arya stupid and ugly and wishing her dead, if Sansa had listened to why Arya hated Joffrey and why she wanted to leave King's Landing and go home? Maybe Sansa would have never betrayed her family. Maybe they could have snuck off to Winterfell in the middle of the night. Maybe Ned would still be alive. Maybe both girls wouldn't have spent the next few years being abused and trying to survive.

#a song of ice and fire #anti sansa stark #joffrey baratheon #arya stark #king's landing #winterfell #eddard stark #asoiaf #joffrey lannister #pro arya stark #ned stark #a game of thrones #canonarya #agot #canonaryastark #george rr martin #valyrianscrolls

12 notes · View notes

yes-these-obsessions-are-healthy · 1 year

Text

I am still Screaming, crying, throwing up thinking about that one spirit Solas met that would gently nudge village girls toward boys that would respect and appreciate the love they gave them, because at that age no one is experienced enough to tell the difference between superficial niceness and genuine niceness, and the Spirit said “I am not going to let these girls make such a mistake of accidentally giving their love to a horrible person in the first place.’

Because girls are expected to instinctively differentiate good and bad men, and when they can’t, their mistake is seen as karmic punishment rather than her being a victim of manipulation and lies and age-appropriate naiveté (see: Sansa being written in the final season as having grown into a stronger and better woman for having endured the sadism of two guys. Gag me.).

Some lessons do not ‘need to be learned’. You do not need to suffer to appreciate kindness and love. Women and girls don’t need to experience that shit in order to appreciate “good men”, and I’m certain Solas would agree that pain for its own sake is a pointless pursuit, which is why he recalled it to the Inquisitor: An anecdote that affirms the helpfulness of spirits and how they can enrich peoples’ lives without their knowing, and best of all, unlike people they do not require accolades or acknowledgment. Their actions having the desired effect is enough to sustain and enrich them. Imagine this spirit growing and strengthening itself off happy matches where it got to the point that being born in that village ensured that you as a girl would be steered as if by an invisible hand toward your soulmate, your other half. The future would not look so uncertain or fraught, would it.

#solas #character discussion

58 notes · View notes

lovelyladyabsinthewrites · 1 year

Text

Crimson Lady

Pairing(s): Sansa Stark x Bolton!Reader, Sansa Stark x Ramsay Bolton, Ramsay Bolton x Bolton!Reader

Warnings: dubious consent (please do not read this if you are sensitive to any of the warnings), implied r*p*, slight in*3st

Words: 2476

Summary:Sansa should have known better. Of course she'd be every part of a Bolton as her brother Ramsay was.

The young Lady Bolton was in many ways a lot like her father and brother. Her face was harsh, not to say it wasn’t any less lovely, but lovely in a cruel sort of way. Same ghostly pale eyes that were haunting yet oh so alluring. Sansa knew from whispers that (y/n) had been legitimized before her older brother Ramsay, something that Sansa thought would surely irk her new husband. This fact didn’t seem to bother Ramsay though. Actually, much to Sansa’s surprise, Ramsay adored his little sister even if she did get the honor of holding the house name Bolton rather than Snow as he did. Sansa had thought Ramsay incapable of such tender affection. He had certainly showed no kindness to her in such a way.

And (y/n)? Well, Sansa had learned well from Petyr Baelish not to trust anyone no matter how kind they outwardly appeared. How could she not trust her though? (y/n) was the only one to show her any kind of genuine warmth since arriving back to what she once called her home. And as much as Sansa wanted to hate the girl she couldn’t. It wasn’t her fault that her father had played a huge part in the murder of her mother and brother. (y/n) didn’t ask to be born a Bolton. In fact there was a time when it was just (y/n) and Sansa alone in the castle, Ramsay having gone off to hunt something or someone. Grudgingly Sansa had gone back to her hobby of needlework, so foreign to her now after all she had gone through. She wasn’t a little girl anymore and was out of practice. The two had gotten to talking of their history. Betrayals and heartaches that Sansa suffered in King’s Landing, (y/n)’s life before she became a legitimate daughter of Roose Bolton.

“I much preferred being a bastard.” (y/n) had confessed, pulling the needle with skilled fingers through the canvas. Already she had half of a red bird done.

Sansa remembers her own bastard brother that was now confined in the Brotherhood. “You didn’t feel ashamed?”

Her face scrunches up in indignation ad she sets her hoop on her lap, looking sternly at Sansa. Immediately Sansa regrets her question. “Shame for what? My father should be the one who’s ashamed. He’s the one who sired bastards and put a stain on his own name. Being legitimate has brought me no happiness. I was much more happier being a Snow. Back when it was just my brother and I.” As if stuck in her memory, her pale eyes shift to her hand that still held the needle and thread. “It was so much simpler back then. But Ramsay was never satisfied. Unlike me, he’s always wanted to have the name Bolton.”

The hound that was dozing at (y/n)’s feet let out a soft snore. It brought (y/n) back to the present and a bit embarrassed she returns to sewing.

“I’m sorry.” Sansa murmurs. “I didn’t mean to offend you.” A lot she had been taught about bastards was from her own mother. Bitter about having to raise another woman’s child, Catelyn Stark never cared for Jon Snow and would heavily criticize any bastard that came across her. She was bitter of what had happened between Ned and this unknown woman. Sansa felt shame for how she had treated Jon in their youth. She had taken too much of what her mother had said to heart. There was much truth in what (y/n) had said about not being any happier being a Bolton. Many times Sansa saw how solemn the young girl was if she were by herself. The only time she saw a spark of life on (y/n)’s face was when she was playing with her hounds and when she was with Ramsay.

She shrugs waving it off. “That’s alright. Many wouldn’t understand. I know there are a lot of bastards who would be happy to be legitimized. They live in poor circumstances. Not me though.” There’s a meloncholic quality to her tone. “I had everything I needed when I was a Snow.”

There was something about her sadness that Sansa found beautiful. Something in her raw emotions that captivated the Stark girl.

When you saw a bruise on Sansa’s cream skin, you knew what it was from. Knew who it was from. Anger flared up in you. You had left her in a quizzical state to go hunt down your brother. Of course you knew that Ramsay had to consummate his marriage with her. It was something you had to accept. She was a lovely girl and you didn’t blame him. What you did blame him for was harming her. You didn’t mind it when he got rough with you. The two of you enjoyed in rough intercourse. You reveled in your own bruises you got from fucking your brother. Loved how he completely dominated over you and made you his. But to do something like that to Sansa? Unforgivable. She didn’t ask for this. You knew it was rape. Ramsay knew it. Sansa knew it. And to make matters worse was that he was hurting her so much that he left signs of it on her beautiful skin. You couldn’t stop him from fucking her, it was expected from him; but you could at least stop him from doing it in such a painful way.

“Ramsay.”

Your voice, full of authority, had the other men around your brother jumping out of their skins. The clanging of metal stopped at your entrance into the training grounds. Now you knew you looked much like your father when you were angry as it made everyone uncomfortable to be in the same place as you.

Ramsay turns around, his smile full at the sight of you. “My sweet sister! Whatever is the matter?”

“I need to have a private word with you.”

“Surely it can wait. I’m in the middle of-”

You pull out a dagger from the sleeve of your dress, holding it by the blade tip, and throw it at your brother. It grazes his cheek and lands behind him in the hardwood wall of a neighboring stall. The men look aghast and even Ramsay loses his smile. No other person would dare do something like that to Ramsay, not if they valued their life at least.

“Now, brother.”

Ramsay clears his throat before following after you like a dog who had just been scold. People thought Ramsay was the cruel one. They had never seen your work.

You take him down to the dungeons of Winterfell, a place that had been hell for many and immediately you sense your brother’s hesitation.

“Come along brother.”

“Whatever this is about, (y/n), we can talk this through.” He refuses to take another step. “Or, did you have something more intimate in mind? Is it going to be that kind of session?” A lusty smirk twists his face.

You smile slyly. “Come with me and you’ll find out.”

One of two things could happen. The both of you knew this. Whenever Ramsay brought someone down here it was for torture. When you brought him down there it was for a mix of torture and pleasure.

Ramsay was willing to gamble on it. When he got close enough to you, you quickly sat him down in a chair and with lightning fast hands you tighten the restraints that were on the arms so that he couldn’t move. He was your’s now. Ramsay knew that by the looks of the concern finally flashing in his gaze to you.

He knew your switch had been turned on. You were in Bolton mode. Not sweet (y/n) Snow. No, that girl was dead for the moment.

“I saw bruises on Sansa’s beautiful skin. Skin that should never be damaged in such a barbaric manner unless she requests for it as I do.”

Your brother attempts to laugh it off. “Oh my darling sister. Are you jealous? You know I must produce an heir with-”

No one would’ve ever pictured your tiny hands capable of latching onto Ramsay’s jaw to snap it shut with such fury. “I’m not jealous. Do not interrupt me again or I’ll sew your mouth shut. What you are doing to her is not the same as between us. You are harming her against her will. I’ll sit quietly while you fuck her, but that is all you should be doing. Not hurting her in the process. Rut her and leave her be.” Your fingers tighten into the skin of his jaw. “If I find one more bruise on her-”

He hadn’t even been aware of where your other hand had been. It was pressing a knife dangerously to his crotch. “I’ll do to you what you did to Theon Greyjoy. Believe me, it’s the last thing I want to do since we both know how much I love your lower appendage. But I will protect that girl as much as possible. We’ve taken her home. Killed her family. And now you shame her more.” You back away and observe his face. “I at least won’t be a part of it.”

Ramsay’s breathing hard, eyes pinpoint with a mix of fear and arousal. Chest moving fast as he tries to collect himself. One emotion at a time. He would deal with fear first. “Very well, (y/n). I will treat her as a lady in the bed. But. . . can I still treat you as I do?”

“As long as I see you’re keeping your word.” You turn around and head back up the stairs.

“(y/n)! You’ve forgotten to untie me!”

“Figure it out yourself.” You call back.

Sansa didn’t know what was going on, but for the past couple of nights when Ramsay would visit her to consummate their union he wasn’t rough at all. In fact, he would just tell her to get naked and turn around. A few pumps later and he was done. No ramming into her mercilessly or anything of the sorts.

She was grateful of course, but confused as to why he would completely change.

Was it (y/n)? His sister had been very upset when she caught sight of her bruises. She had left in a fury and didn’t speak a word of it after that. Sansa couldn’t think of anything else. It had to be (y/n)’s doing.

That night Ramsay didn’t even visit her so Sansa had the night completely to herself without any fear of Ramsay dropping by.

How could they be so different? (y/n) was only a year younger than Ramsay; had the same mother and father. Everything yet she turned out so much more. . .

Sansa stopped in her embroidery, fingers in mid air holding onto her needle.

(y/n) was kind and lovely, sad and thoughtful; she was so many things.

It had been quite some time since she’d felt. . . attracted to someone. And it just so happened to be toward the same sex. The last time she had developed a crush was on Joffrey and gods did that go sour quickly. Was it her doom to be attracted to people that it would never work out with?

Oh but how (y/n) brightened her day up. Even she had admitted of the atrocities her father and brother have done and asked for Sansa’s forgiveness. (y/n) had nothing to apologize for on her behalf. If only the Bolton girl knew that without her Sansa would be in much worse shape than she was. (y/n) may not have been happy to be a Bolton, but Sansa was. She was glad that (y/n) was the person she was. That she was born into that family and met her. If she hadn’t been born a Bolton, Sansa would be all alone and suffering at Ramsay’s hands.

Normally Sansa never would have ventured out of her room at night. Even if Winterfell had once been her home, she couldn’t trust those who lurked there now. But she had to talk to (y/n) and ask her if it was truly her intervention that was stopping Ramsay from being brutal in their marital bed.

She feared being caught so she took no source of light and instead relied heavily on her memories of the castle to find her way to (y/n)’s chambers.

Outside of the door, before Sansa could even knock, she could already hear soft whimpers. Her hand stops, fingers curled as she was prepared to knock. It was still early in the night where not everyone was asleep. Still. . . It sounded like (y/n) was crying.

A lump developed in her throat. Should she intrude? Comfort her? How would she even go about comforting her? It had been a while since she ever gave comfort to anyone.

Unable to make up her mind there came another voice from the other side of the door. A muffled voice, but Sansa would know it from anywhere. Ice ran through her veins. Ramsay.

What was he doing to her?

Anger fueled Sansa to throw open the door. The sight that she met made her face grow deathly pale.

(y/n) was naked, bound by chains and blinded by silk over her eyes. Her body was arched so that her butt was sticking up in the air. There were vivid red streaks scattered from her back to her thighs, many were trickling with blood some were merely shallow welts. And there was Ramsay standing over her equally as stained with her blood. A whip in his hand and a crazed glint in his eyes. He too was naked, an erection prominent between his legs.

She was utterly speechless. Ramsay, however, was not.

“Ah dear wife, what are you doing up so late?”

(y/n)’s body freezes as her hands try desperately to get out of her binds to remove her blindfold. Ramsay drops his whip and rubs (y/n)’s cunt with his hand.

“Ssh, sweet sister. I’ll get back to you.”

“Wh. . .What are you doing to her?” Sansa didn’t know what else to say; what else to do. She felt freezing cold all of a sudden and the world around her seemed to distort unnaturally as Ramsay strides closer to her.

His grin scares her. Never before had it had an effect like that on her. Previously it had just annoyed her. But now. . . Now she didn’t know what to make of it.

Ramsay reaches the door, his hand on it prepared to close it. He leans forward enough so that his face is mere inches from Sansa’s. “I think you should go back to bed, wife.” Then he shuts the door leaving Sansa in the dark.

#game of thrones fanfiction #game of thrones #game of thrones fanfic #Game of Thrones fandom #got fanfiction #got fanfic #got fandom #got reader insert #asoiaf fandom #ASoIaF #asoiaf fanfiction #asoiaf fanfic #asoiaf reader insert #reader insert #reader insert fanfiction

59 notes · View notes

badbedforbedding · 1 year

Text

Shireen in the eyes of Val, the Wildling:

How Val suggesting that Shireen should be sacrificed is not an evil act of an evil woman.

But rather is the logic of a person born in the isolation of a tribe North of the Wall. Where, if there is a contagious disease with no known cure or treatment, that can lead to death; one person catching said disease could spread to others causing the eventual death of the whole tribe; unless the sick person is cast aside or sacrificed altogether. So when she says:

"If I had given birth to that poor child, I would have given her the gift of mercy long ago."

Val is saying she would have killed her own child if she was born sick and that would be an act of mercy, meaning not prolonging the child's suffering and her own. It's a cold and pragmatical way for a mother to think of her child, but it makes sense when you remember that living North of the Wall means putting practicality over emotions in the name of survival.

This was a Val that Jon had never seen before "Princess Shireen is the queen's only child."

"I pity both of them. The child is not clean."

Val saying she pities the mother and the child is again a reiteration of her opinion, that the girl should have been giving the gift long ago, before mother and child grew attached to each other, before the girl could grow and understand pain and loss. But now it's too late, Shireen is well aware of her condition by now and Selise is very protective of her, there will be suffering no matter what, whether Shireen dies from the disease or from someone killing her.

Val uses her logic again, action over emotion, when she says Shireen is not "clean". It's to say that Shireen still carries the sickness and could infect others, thus it's not safe to have her around.

I don't understand how the fandom is so eager to hate a woman, a low-born woman, of non tradition femininity while they excuse every wrong doing from noble woman, traditionally feminine and conforming woman.

When it's Catelyn mistreating the bastard son of her husband, wishing he was the one to fall from a tower and telling him that to his face. No, it's okay, she was only worried for her children;

When it's Sansa who wishes her sister death, it's fine because she is just dealing with her grief over Lady. When she is complicit in the poisoning of Sweetrobin, suddenly she is just a little girl unaware of the workings of medicine, even after the Maester's warning she could not know. She is innocent in this too.

#I'm ranting again #val the wildling #shireen baratheon #asoiaf

54 notes · View notes

cappymightwrite · 9 months

Note

hello, cappy! i've loved reading your metas, and after reading your meta about the "what do you know of my heart?" line from sense and sensibility, i can't stop thinking about the exchange between elinor or colonel brandon about marianne "becoming better acquainted with the world" in relation to sansa. she very much shares marianne's romanticism and also suffers a devastating disillusionment. do you think there could be a connection there?

Hi there!

Thank you, glad you enjoyed it (“What do you know of my heart?” in A Dance with Dragons and Sense & Sensibility) 😊

That's an interesting exchange and I can see why you've sensed a connection with Sansa there. Here it is from the 1995 film adaptation:

Colonel Brandon: Your sister seems very happy. Elinor Dashwood: Yes. Marianne does not approve of hiding her emotions. In fact, her romantic prejudices have the unfortunate tendency to set propriety at naught. Colonel Brandon: She is wholly unspoilt. Elinor Dashwood: Rather too unspoilt, in my view. The sooner she becomes acquainted with the ways of the world, the better. Colonel Brandon: I knew a lady very like your sister — the same impulsive sweetness of temper — who was forced into, as you put it, a better acquaintance with the world. The result was only ruination and despair. Do not desire it, Miss Dashwood.

And here it is in the novel, from Chapter 11:

[...] His eyes were fixed on Marianne, and, after a silence of some minutes, he said, with a faint smile, "Your sister, I understand, does not approve of second attachments." "No," replied Elinor, "her opinions are all romantic." "Or rather, as I believe, she considers them impossible to exist." "I believe she does. But how she contrives it without reflecting on the character of her own father, who had himself two wives, I know not. A few years however will settle her opinions on the reasonable basis of common sense and observation; and then they may be more easy to define and to justify than they now are, by any body but herself." "This will probably be the case," he replied; "and yet there is something so amiable in the prejudices of a young mind, that one is sorry to see them give way to the reception of more general opinions." "I cannot agree with you there," said Elinor. "There are inconveniences attending such feelings as Marianne’s, which all the charms of enthusiasm and ignorance of the world cannot atone for. Her systems have all the unfortunate tendency of setting propriety at nought; and a better acquaintance with the world is what I look forward to as her greatest possible advantage." [...] "[...] I once knew a lady who in temper and mind greatly resembled your sister" [said he], "who thought and judged like her, but who from an enforced change—from a series of unfortunate circumstances—” Here he stopped suddenly; appeared to think that he had said too much [...]

In both instances, it is Elinor who has this view that experience and maturity will temper Marianne's romanticism and that this "better acquaintance with the world" will be to her advantage. Colonel Brandon counters this by drawing a comparison between Marianne and his father's ward, Eliza, whom he loved when he was young but was unable to wed. Eliza suffered several misfortunes, in a sense becoming better acquainted with the world but harshly so, as opposed to the gradual maturing that comes more naturally with age, i.e. what Elinor is talking about. Eliza's romanticism was utterly taken from her, "forced" out as movie Brandon says, and so he cautions against desiring experience/maturity at the cost of one's sense of romanticism and innocence — he sees these traits of Marianne's as things to be admired and protected.

So yes, Sansa is quite like Marianne, and she too goes through a disillusionment arc very much tied to her sense of romanticism. Take this exchange from the movie:

Elinor Dashwood: Poor Willoughby. He will always regret you. Marianne: But does it follow that, had he chosen me, he would have been content? He would have had a wife he loved, but no money, and might soon have learned to rank the demands of his pocketbook far above the demands of his heart. If his present regrets are half as painful as mine, he will suffer enough. Elinor Dashwood: Do you compare your conduct with his? Marianne: No, I compare it with what it ought to have been. I compare it with yours.

However, that is not to say Marianne's expressiveness and deep feeling is a bad thing. And likewise, we shouldn't make the mistake (like GoT did) of thinking that Sansa's romanticism is a thing to be wholly cynically dismantled and derided. Sansa's story can be described as falling into the bildungsroman genre (a coming of age tale), as do all the other Starklings' povs, but I would see it as a tragedy if she were to lose her romantic nature completely, just as Colonel Brandon feels with regards to Eliza and Marianne in S&S. I don't think that's the endgame for Sansa. I think too many things point towards romantic fulfilment for her... and she's encountered her rakes and rogues, to put it nicely, so what's left? Her Romantic hero ;)

Because really, S& S isn't about one way of being trumping the other — though admirable, it isn't healthy to repress or censor yourself, to take on as much as Elinor does. Instead, it is about each sister finding a balance between sense and sensibility. It is not an exchange of one for the other, but a communion between the two.

I think in my original meta, I talked about how Sansa AND Jon have elements of Elinor in the way they internalise their true wants and desires as an act of self preservation. We see this perhaps most strongly in Jon, and get the impression this has always been a facet of his character tied very much to his status as a bastard, but we also begin to see it in Sansa as part of her arc of disillusionment.

So I suppose I think there are interesting parallels between Sansa and both Elinor and Marianne. I think Sansa is on a journey of maturation, a reckoning with and resolution of her sense and sensibility. But this isn't Regency England and so Sansa's trials are heightened, or at least different, as befits asoiaf's faux-medieval setting. I can't say with any real confidence that Sense and Sensibility and the Dashwood sisters are a definite conscious influence on GRRM... but I don't know... it's certainly a fruitful thought experiment!

Thanks for the ask :)

#cappy's thoughts #cappy's writing #sansa stark #jonsa #literary parallels #jon x sansa #literary influences

16 notes · View notes

ilargizuri · 1 year

Text

three Things in One Creature - Part 4: Wings for Food

We now know that the wings of the falcon probably represent the problem of food shortages and the hunger that people suffer in winter. So how do we know which characters represent the wings and thus save the population from hunger? Well, although we have several characters that stand for hunger, we only have a few characters that are positively connoted by the readership.

We have Petyr Baelish who buys food to sell at a high price, but this man says in the same breath that he wants to sell the food he buys at a profit. And he does not even mention the common people but only the nobility. So for Petyr Baelish, this action is just another step towards more power in Westeros.

Whereas Sansa is a more positively connotated character, through whose point of view we also observe Baelish’s actions. So she knows about this stored food, which allows her to give it to anyone who needs it once Petyr Baelish is gone.

Bran, on the other hand, has been ruling the north in Robb’s absence, which gives him an education in politics and organisation, but when he and Meera, Jojen and Hodor are on their way to Three-Eyed Crow, the group is starving. Their leader goes hunting for deserters from the Night’s Watch and returns with meat. The allusion is very clear that these four are eating human flesh. This is not a positive turn of events, this is a low point! Bran is therefore less suitable as a candidate for the character who can avert the hunger catastrophe. As Robb’s heir, he certainly has the means to do so as Lord of Winterfell, but if the broad hints in his chapters are any indication, he doesn’t know where to look for food.

This is where Sansa and Jon come into play because Sansa knows about Littlefinger’s secret supplies in the Vale, Jon has contacts at the Bank of Braavos and knows how they can get a loan that they can pay off in their lifetime. He also has contacts with a group of hunters who provide them with the furs they need to pay the Bank of Braavos and get food. The Free Folk are struggling with the problems of winter just like everyone else, but you can already see in A Dance with Dragons that the wildlings are keeping the bargain Jon demanded of them to be allowed behind the Wall. The group there gets used to life behind the Wall and one of the Thenns even marries Alys Karstark to save her from the forced marriage of her relatives. In my opinion, this is a strong indication that the Free Peoples will slowly establish themselves in the North and will be an essential part of the solution to the food problem.

We also know from the series that there will probably be two kingdoms at the end, one in the north and one in the south, but I suspect it will be structured differently from the series where two Starks are sitting on the two thrones and one of them can’t have any more children and Tyrion suggests that from now on the kings should be elected. Something we know was actually custom in the Culture of the First Men.

I rather suspect that by blowing Joramund’s horn the Wall will be shifted and thus the Two Kingdoms will be created. It is assumed that Melissandre destroyed the Horn of Winter, but I think the horn that Mance found is the Hammer of Water. As far as we know, there are only magical musical instruments in A Song of Ice and Fire, which would also fit the title. We have a horn that summons Kraken, one that brings down the Wall, one that tames dragons, why would a magical tool that controls masses of water be a hammer? The horn Mance shows Jon Snow, which he found in a glacier in the Frostfangs, is described as black and golden. Black and gold are the colours of the Greyjoys and the horn burns in green and yellow flames, which are the colours the children of the forest have, green skin and yellow eyes. So it would not be too far-fetched that George R. R. Martin chose these colours to link to these two parties with the Horn.

It would also further emphasise the fact that we have two wings, two kingdoms and two separate solutions to the food problem. I think that in the North and the Vale, the countries I suspect are behind the new Wall, Sansa and Jon are the two people who are solving the food problem in the North with Bran on the Throne as King of the North and the Vale.

So if we end up with two kingdoms separated by a wall, then we need someone in the south to solve the problem with food, here I think it will be the Tyrells that solve the food problem. Not only is Margery Tyrell with Sansa on the hunt that brought me to the idea that the Sphinx are a reference to the true heroes of these books, but her family are the High Lords of the Reach, the most fertile corner, the crop chamber, of Westeros. Their Family Words are „Growing Strong“ and although the Tyrells are allied with the Lannisters right now, that could change quickly. In addition, this was already indicated to us in the sample chapters from The Winds of Winter. There it seems that Mace Tyrell joined him instead of defeating Aegon at Storms End.

The Tyrells and the Reach are thus the one wing, in the south, which is the other, is still a mystery to me. However, I tend to think that it is Aegon, it doesn’t matter whether he really is the son of Rhaegar Targaryen or not, it is important that Varys says the following in the epilogue to the dying Kevan Lannister:

»Aegon has been shaped for rule before he could walk. He has been trained in arms, as befits a knight to be, but that was not the end of his education. He reads and writes, he speaks several tongues, he has studied history and law and poetry. A septa has instructed him in the mysteries of the Faith since he was old enough to understand them. He has lived with fisherfolk, worked with his hands, swum in rivers and mended nets and learned to wash his own clothes at need. He can fish and cook and bind up a wound, he knows what it is like to be hungry, to be hunted, to be afraid. Tommen has been taught that kingship is his right. Aegon knows kingship is his duty, that a king must put his people first, and live and rule for them.«

Varys, A Dance with Dragons epilog

I admit that the young man we get to know through the eyes of Tyrion Lannister has little to do with what Varys says. However, we should consider that Varys probably never met this young man personally and therefore will only recite the reports of his allies.

What is interesting, however, is the Varys mentioned here that Aegon knows how to fish and how to cook. That seems a little weird, considering that Varys is about to explain to his murder victim why Aegon would be the better king. So far we have never seen a king fishing, hunting has always been described as the activity which kings and nobles engage in and have to do with the procurement of food. Fishing is not mentioned as an activity of a king, not even the kings of the iron islands are mentioned as fishermen and this is a seafaring culture that is based on the Vikings! They should be able to fish and not consider it under their dignity.

That is why I believe that Aegon is the second wing to solve the problem with food in the south. It is not important whether he is Rhaegar’s son, he lived with the common people and knows about their concerns and needs, and can therefore better put himself in them.

Now some Daenerys fans might say that Daenerys also lived among the common people and knows hunger, as Varys describes it in his speech. That’s true, but just like with Bran, Daenerys has no solution to how to effectively tackle the problem with food. Daenerys‘ solution is to use a new slave class that works for food and shelter in the fields. Before this solution has any success, dying thousands of hunger and disease in her chapters. In addition, this hallucination is one of the last sentences we know from Daenerys.

»I gave you good counsel. Save your spears and swords for the Seven Kingdoms, I told you. Leave Meereen to the Meereenese and go west, I said. You would not listen. „I had to take Meereen or see my children starve along the march.“ Dany could still see the trail of corpses she had left behind her crossing the Red Waste. It was not a sight she wished to see again. „I had to take Meereen to feed my people.“ You took Meereen, he told her, yet still, you lingered. „To be a queen.“ You are a queen, her bear said. In Westeros. „It is such a long way,“ she complained. „I was tired, Jorah. I was weary of war. I wanted to rest, to laugh, to plant trees and see them grow. I am only a young girl.“ No. You are the blood of the dragon. The whispering was growing fainter as if Ser Jorah were falling farther behind. Dragons plant no trees. Remember that. Remember who you are, what you were made to be. Remember your words.« -Daenerys to a Hallucination of Jorah, Daenerys X, A Dance with Dragons.

Daenerys has the bird motif in her chapters with Daario and his storm crows, but no solution, just like Bran. The storm crows are mercenaries, unlike the crows of the Nights watch at the wall, which consists of a group of people who come from the most diverse areas of life and can therefore also present diverse knowledge, the storm crows only know the warcraft. So the difference with Bran is she has no family to support her in this matter.

Sansa and Jon will undoubtedly support their brother in his regency and use the knowledge they have for the benefit of the people. Which in our case means that they are the solution to the problem with food.

Daenerys has no close confidants, counsellors or family who will support her in her regency in such a way. Aegon wants the throne, just like Daenerys and because the daughter of Aerys the second believes that she still meets a false dragon, as she saw it in the visions in the house of the Undying, she will not join with her possible nephew for the good of all, but fight against him, whereby it is again unimportant what is true and what is not, but only what Daenerys believes! So I think if a Targaryen really is part of the Solution to the Food-Problem, it will be Aegon.

In the Next Part, we will discover that a Lion does not always Means Royalty, until then please Read My other Parts.

#my meta #asoiaf #anti daenerys targaryen in some way #Ending speculation for two Kingdoms #One in the North #one in the South #therefore there have to be 2 Wings for all of Westeros and 2 Wings for both Kingdoms #jonsa kind of

37 notes · View notes