It's funny how Kataangers say that young girls who ship Zutara only do so because Katara's their self-insert character, when Kataang is quite literally a ship based on bryke's nice guy self-insert who gets with his babysitter. Yikes, smells like misogyny to me.

debunking fandom bs.

over/over criticism i hear for lok/kataang

. Katara is an abused trophy housewife

Me watching lok very first episode we meet Katara who has the respect of all the elder men she is called Master Katara. Compared to her 'fans' who call her.. . lets see. . Trophy wife/babymaking machine/ woman who does all chores.. fandom is a 100 times more sexist to katara than lok will ever be and all ove shipping i hopeyourproudofyourselfs.

Master Katara.

I swear it always gotta be something man, as a new fan I just got into researching ATLA and everytime I think 'oh this guy staff did/said something I can get behind!' I'm just shooting myself in the foot for them to turn around and do sexist and godawful things

Comments on Netflix's Avatar The Last Airbender

*spoiler alert*

First of all I'm gonna start by saying it is one of the best adaptations I've seen so far. And that's the key word, adaptation. I've seen a lot of fans and others complain about some things that honestly, doesn't make sense because some things only work in a cartoon(just as much as some things only work in a book or a video game)

And before I start to talk about some topics that I judge important, I also wanna say that the production is fantastic, from the costumes to the CGI. It all looks amazing. (A part from Yue's wig)

1. The Script

It's not easy to pick 20+ episodes and make it fit in only 8 but damn they did a hell of a good job, especially when judging what was important to show and what they could let it go. Some fans commented that since there's no fillers, the Gaang and others miss some development but I think that for the universe of the live action what we got here it worked.

I can express how much I like to see Ozai and Azula's relationship and how it is now clear that he uses the siblings against each other, manipulating them to get what he wants. But I will admit I miss the fear Azula had, since it's implied in the show and some extras that she does fear Ozai, and fears becoming like Zuko.

I hope the 41. Is just fine after the battle in the north. See all of them bowing to Zuko after discovering that Zuko was the one that saved their asses and was heavily punished by that...it was beautiful. I loved the writers did that, give names and faces to Zuko's crew and a beautiful yet sad arc when Ozai banished his son and the men who he saved.

I also loved that they put weight into things that was treated as a joke, like Katara talking about her mother. She was a little kid who saw her mom get murdered in front of her and the live action made sure to let us know that it is not okay to make jokes about something so traumatic. All of the deaths here have tons of weight in it, it's not some random person, is someone we met, someone we liked, someone who helped. The costs of the war, something the cartoon manages to show us but know in live action, with real people, the massage gets stronger.

And they didn't forget Iroh's past like the fandom does, which is great. That actor, the earthbending soldier really let it all out, that's how you use the few screentime you have.

Sokka's isn't sexist and y'all were making a storm outta a cup of water, is not like Sokka sexist didn't go away after like the 4 or 5 episode in the original show. I think the live action was able to bring more depth to him in comparison to the first season of the cartoon. We see how he feels about his father's, the absence of him and his duty as warrior who kinda doesn't want to be a warrior.

I need a Gyatso in my life, I didn't know I needed to see more of him until the live action gave us more of him. Kyoshi was the Thor coming to Wakanda from this season, WHY THE FUCK BRYKE DONT WANNA GIVE US A KYOSHI SERIES? She is absolutely a jewel of a character. Roku and Kuruk, damn poor Kuruk man, so much pain in his words but again that's what it means to be the Avatar, it's not fun and games. Zhao saying to Aang what Korra villains said to Korra😭 that the world doesn't need the Avatar anymore, it hurt.

Guys I'm gonna say it, there's no way in hell for anyone to ship Kataang here. I'm saying this because some shippers complain that the secret tunnel part was different but c'mon, look at Kiawentiio and look at Gordon, it would be so s awkward and weird and just wrong. I know they don't have a big age difference, is only like 3 years but when they filmed Gordon looked so much younger than her, maybe in the next seasons the difference won't be that big.

The pace is good, once you start you don't wanna stop.

2. The Acting

Everyone is really good at capturing the essence of it's characters and somewhat making them their own. The highlights for me were Dallas and Ian, Its like they came straight from the show. Ken Leung's Zhao was also amazing as he was way more threatening here than he was in the show.

Kiawentiio was the Katara we were looking for, she is kind yet strong, brave and caring. And Gordon was Aang, sure, he has to learn a few things since he slipped a few times in his acting but nothing that could ruin the experience, that kid is good and just needs some experience.

Elizabeth Yu was Azula. It was different but yet the same character, is like learning something new of her and I like how cleared she show emotions with her eyes. Maria Zhang had great chemistry with Ian and I can't wait to see more of Suki. Arden Cho and Yvonne Chapman as June and Avatar Kyoshi look like they came out straight from the cartoon. Daniel Dae Kim...man is Ozai, so cold, so sharp, so scary, already way better than the cartoon version. I wanna see more of Paul Sun-Hyung Lee as Iroh since the character he really starts to shine in book 2.

3. The live action doesn't have the spirit of the OG?

Yes, it does have. The thing is now that we are seeing real people, things get dark one way or another but I don't think it ruined the spirit of the show. Aang is still a kid, Sokka still making sarcastic jokes, Zuko still annoying as hell, Katara still hopeful and strong... There's everything there really.

The thing is stuff like genocide, murder, war, death and suffering are, for some people, better to watch as pixels in a cartoon than real people.

I think it's a great adaptation and I would recommend it to every fan.

What would you say is the dumbest argument people have used against Zutara as a ship that you’ve seen/heard?

I think the dumbest argument has got to be that “the hero gets the girl.”

I shouldn’t even have to say that this is extremely sexist, that just because Aang saved the world he deserves to have his crush like him back. Please note this is an actual argument I’ve heard from an IRL friend (the husband of my best friend), who apparently is ignoring the fact that the Gaang saved the world together and it wasn't just Aang alone. The biggest appeal of Zutara, to me, is that the relationship gives Katara more agency. Katara had a strong emotional connection with Zuko and he treated her like a real person, not like a mother figure or a maid. He respected her strength. The relationship works because of their partnership...but it’s the icing on the cake that with Zuko, Katara becomes one of the most politically powerful women in the world. (Sometimes people say “Well Katara didn’t choose Zuko!” to argue that her choice was Aang and that’s all that matters, but let me remind you that Katara did not choose Aang, because Katara isn’t real, she’s a character who had writers determine her decisions, which is why it feels so out of left field for Katara to kiss Aang during the finale—there was little to no narrative foundation for that "choice.")

But also “the hero gets the girl” implies that the “bad guy” shouldn’t get the girl. (Bryke has said this before, demonstrating a sad misunderstanding of their own show.) It is so, so incredibly important that Zuko is no longer the bad guy at the end of the show. ATLA is popular largely because it has one of the best redemption arcs in media, full stop. Zuko was redeemed—and he wasn’t even bad, he was a kid doing what he thought was good. If we accept Zuko’s redemption as real—and we obviously should—then that shouldn’t rule out romantic relationships with his friends. I hate the argument that Zuko can be friends with Katara but cannot share anything romantic because of his past. That’s a harmful, hierarchical ranking of relationships that we should absolutely reject. Your friendships are not less important than your romantic relationships. I do not have higher standards for my romantic partners than my close friends. if Zuko becomes part of the Gaang, he’s a part of the Gaang without any qualifiers. That’s redemption and forgiveness, themes integral to the show.

Can't belive i saw a post claiming its cheesy how Aang said I'm gonna save the world with my friends as if that isn't the whole series plot.

and we got canon lines like

Bumi: You'll need your friends ...and you'll need momo too.

Sokka: You don't have to this alone we got your back.

aang:if we knew eachother back then do you think we could be freinds too?

Atla was that show about the POWER of friendship.. that even extends to befriending the villian Zuko.. and im not sure who decided the power of friendship is too sappy cause its not.. friendship is super important in life. and honestly way underrated in fandom shipping culture.. for my taste.

the core of the show is Katara , Aang and Sokka being besties which is basically what i saw in the trailer..

now lets compare that to Disney who decides that men are now sexist for helping women, or have to be dumbed down, and anyone watching animated stuff is dumb and a kid.. compared with the team that has nothing but praises for the original and i have more confidence in atla netflix than the animated movies from bryke because LOK/the comis were big blahs.. id be happy for a reset but i doubt it will happen

and the CGI animals while not amazing still better than what TLM did to Flounder ...

man disney really is the reason most of us are sketpical of live action though isn't it? im glad nick isn't involved either, otherwise it would def suck.

but ..anyway.. i think its gonna be fine.. people were worried that it wouldnt be fun but then we got the kids laughing and sokka making quips. so i think its gonna be a fun romp.

atla fans can be pretty orientalist ngl like TEXTBOOK orientalist.

like okay I know I know the original show is so good but it isn't perfect and there is PLENTY of room for improvement. plenty. we all knew this at the time, back when it was airing and then there was that long break between books 2 and 3. like we all knew it was great but also had its problems. idk why fans from the original run act like this show is perfect.

one of the biggest problems has always been how white the writers room was. how the creators, especially bryke, were profiting by selling the aesthetics of various asian and indigenous peoples to a us american audience.

this is how you get the borderline weird anti-indigenous focus on sexism and misogyny in the water tribes without much exploration of how sexism and misogyny impacted other groups. like actually I'm GLAD that it's toned down but still present in the live action show because sokka was mostly around women and girls for a lot of his teen years. why would HE be so over the top sexist? like in comparison with anyone else, it makes no sense. unless of course you think about it through the lens of how white colonizers tend to think of indigenous peoples - backwards.

I think it's interesting that this show is mostly being worked on by Asian and indigenous people and so many fans never even wanted to give it a chance. I know, I know- I remember the film too. but from the jump, fans have been so quick to dismiss EVERY little detail* or leak without even seeing it first.

bryke are a big part of the story, I know. but they are not all of the people who were behind it. it seems to me that a lot of the fans of this show are weirdly protective of these two white guys who decided to part from the show. they weren't forced out, they left. and yes I'm biased because I saw just how shitty they treated fans of zutara (largely girls and VERY, VERY diverse) at literal conventions, how they egged on some toxic bullying from other parts of the fanbase to the point that frankly it's never really worth engaging in non-zutara fan spaces because people are so reactive and weird about even the mention of zutara. and then these same assholes will make comparisons to reylos as if zutara fans EVER harassed poc fans and especially actors. but whatever, that's my bias. but I can respect that they also created this amazing show that I've loved for half of my life.

I still see it as a good thing that the people working on this show come from the cultures bryke and nickelodeon profited off of without giving anything back.

so I guess my question to white fans is this: if you haven't watched yet because you are mad about bryke or some of the changes you've heard about or whatever, why do you not trust people from the cultures atla draws upon to adapt this story? are you just here to consume exotic aesthetics? why are bryke the only people who can sell those aesthetics to you?

*btw I'm not talking about the sokka casting shit, that's different and should be criticized. Also Albert Kim was the showrunner of Sleepy Hollow and was complicit in racist treatment of Nicole Beharie so he is not someone I trust very much. also there are definitely critiques I have of the show but it's not bad, not even remotely. it's worth watching.

I AM BANGING MY HEAD AGAINST THE FUCKING WALL AND ABOUT TO CRY I'M SO FUCKING MAD I HATE ZKS I HATE ZKS I HATE ZKS

okay, now that THAT is out of the way. I hate how zutarians treat Jet. I get aang, as he is katara's canon love interest and the one she ultimately ends up with. Naturally, this would screw with zks' delusions so, yeah, I can see where the hate is coming from, I understand (though by no means do I endorse it)

BUT JET??? WTF DID HE DO?? He was never a "threat" to zk, because katara ditched the barely a day long crush on him the second she learned about his plan. Was it the fact that he (rightfully!!!) calls out iroh and zuko and is antagonistic of them for not just being fn, but for straight up being fucking ROYALS, WHOSE DIRECT ANCESTOR IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE WAR IN THE FIRST PLACE??

It doesn't matter to zks that jetara was obviously never going to be canon. It doesn't matter to zks that jet's anger is justified. It doesn't matter that jet is probably one of the most tragic characters in the whole fucking franchise, who suffers greatly from war, becomes severely traumatized, loses pretty much everything and on top of that has an "honour" to be one of the few characters who DIES ON SCREEN. It doesn't matter to zks that he's just like katara, sokka and aang - a child permanently scarred by the war.

None of this matters!! He's now a sexist (wut) prick who downplays katara's achievements, toxic, cheats on her (wut) and in some cases just straight up abusive. Basically completely takes over what is usually aang's ""role"" in zks' fewer dreams as katara's abusive ex whom zuko saves her from.

WITH MY WHOLE FUCKING HEART - FUCK ZKS. It's one thing if it's projection and something like that for the sake of smut or whatever. I'm proship, I don't give a flying fuck about 99% of the stuff I see. But this is just a disrespect to Jet's whole character. Why can't they just make up a whole new faceless dude for the role of an abusive ex? Why does it have to be one of the characters, especially ones who were never interested in katara to begin with?!?!

1 - Jet has a lot in common with Zuko, but he is still obviously not the same as Zuko - yet Katara had feelings for him, and not for the fandom's favorite moody boy (and she had WAAAAAY better chemistry with Jet than she ever did with Zuko). Can't have that.

2 - Jet HATES the Fire Nation, which is completely fair (even if his actions in his introduction episode were attrocious). And this fandom, for whatever reason, LOVES to pretend "The Fire Nation totally had a bit of a point" and "Sozin was not an evil man, he just wanted to help people, please forget that he chose to use the comet to wipe out an entire race from the face of the Earth." Jet was always going to be controversial because the fandom would take his (incorrect) way of dealing with his trauma as proof he was 100% pure, while excuse Fire Nation characters that did bad things but had a heart/tragic backstory. Double-standards at it's finest.

3 - He antagonized Iroh and Zuko, two fan favorites. This is, apparently, the worst crime one can commit. As an Azula fan, I should know.

4 - The show was not always fair to Jet either. While they redeemed and KILLED him and the Gaang was clearly upset, the only time he is ever brought up again (without it being a joke) was in the Southern Raiders, and it only mentions the awful behavior he came to regret - not his change of heart. Sure, it was not an innacurate comparison at the moment, but it's unfair that the dude DIED to prove he had changed but is never remembered for anything other than his worst action.

5 - Bryke, unfairly, said anyone who ships Zutara is doomed to have awful, failed relationships for liking such a "dark" ship. They did not like that, and thus double-down on making anyone that had any involvement with Katara be the literal devil in their fics. Unlike Aang, Jet actually DID manipulate Katara once and showed he could get violent towards people with no provocation, so they latch onto that to go "See? OUR ship is not the bad one, THIS is!" completely ignoring Jet's regret, growth, and redemption, as well as Katara's forgivenes.

Anyways, Jet isn't even among my favorite Avatar characters, but Jesus, does the fandom love to crucify that boy for things they'd absolutely forgive characters like Zuko and Iroh for.

I'm so tired of people claiming being a kataang fan just makes you a aang stan first who has zero respect for katara and nor a true katara fan when we aren't purposely ignoring canon of her being the one to suggest kissing and being super affectionate with aang. They ignore katara clearly telling toph she dislikes being viewed as a mom while antis insist momtara is canon

Kataang fans show way more respect for katara than they do they treat enjoying canon as a moral failing and I'm tired of em acting like kataang fans are shallow sexist men when plenty of us happen to be women enjoying canon shouldn't be so controversial

the “kataang stans are primarily aang stans that don’t care about katara” is such a ridiculous take to me because there’s so many kataang fans I’ve met that prefer katara. a lot of us are in fandom spaces creating said kataang content and making kataang defense arguments about katara’s role in the relationship and the many positive ways it benefits her. i would not be shipping kataang as hard as i do if there weren’t clear substantial evidence that katara is crazy about that boy in her own ways, and feels passionate towards him in a way that she doesn’t feel towards other members of the gaang. yet her feelings for him are either categorized as motherly love and affection or her appreciating him only when he’s the avatar and fulfilling avatar duties. I’ve mentioned this before, but to truly appreciate kataang as a ship or even katara & aang’s bond (platonic or romantically), you need to be well-versed in katara’s character. and thankfully, a lot of kataang fans engaging in fandom can understand and write katara really well, even if they prefer aang among the two.

kataang fans have created and/or produced post-atla headcanons such as katara creating hospitals, working clinic rotations, inventing the infrastructure of the public health care system for republic city, establishing republic city alongside aang (which is pretty much canon as per imbalance and avatar legends), chief katara, sitting on the republic city council, opening up waterbending schools, and plenty more. we’ve always been the main ones pushing the “master katara and her husband avatar aang” comments, until it was finally canonized in avatar legends lore. we’ve been the main ones emphasizing that katara is still a child (albeit a very mature one), who still often acts like a child and ought to be treated like one in fandom. we’ve criticized the adultification & hypersexualization of katara by fandom when she’s still a 14 year old kid in the original series. there’s also a very strange fascination towards katara in her fire nation attire over her practical and adorable water tribe outfits by the fandom, which we’ve also critiqued too. notice how there’s a lot less content of katara in our fandom spaces wearing her husband’s colours or clothes? because we also recognize her unique position as a genocide survivor and how important her culture is to her, even well into her adult life. also, the notion that we vehemently defend the writing and neglect of katara in most of the GLY comics and LOK is so laughable. just because we clearly disagree with incorrect labels such as housewife, baby-maker/breeding machine, trophy wife, does NOT mean that we find the writing 100% satisfiable and true to her original character. of course she deserved a statue & her accomplishments to be highlighted. of course she should’ve attended jinora’s airbending ceremony. of course she should’ve been present at her own bloodbending trial. all of these are very valid, fandom-wide criticisms that we have aimed towards the creators as well. if the recent comics written by bryke and other printed media from avatar studios are to provide any indication, i think they have listened to the fandom. and I think that that 2025 gaang movie will provide more nuance to katara’s adult character as a fighter, healer, politician, wife, and maybe as a mother than what we had witnessed in legend of korra a decade ago.

even if the majority of kataang fans prefer aang’s character, why is that necessarily a problem? does that mean that we understand katara less? because let me tell you, a lot of people from other parts of this fandom will willingly call themselves a katara fan, yet blatantly have the most incorrect interpretations about her, or straight up only view the value in her character when she’s beside zuko. they will only be interested in engaging with her character and making content for her character when it pertains to their ship. by comparison, so many kataang fans love and adore katara, view her as their fave character, create content solely about katara, have written some of the best meta about her character out there; yet we get accused of not valuing her character and seeing her only as “aang’s trophy wife.”

With my hands I fight for Lord Zuko and our forefathers before him

One of the most popular routes for an Azula redemption arc is for her to be an ally of Zuko. Whether to be an advisor or some kind of high-ranking official that handles the dirty business of running the Fire Nation while Zuko handles the more public stuff like handling reformations and rebuilding the Earth Kingdom that was devastated during the war. I can certainly understand how this can work since Azula is given a say in the future of the Fire Nation and is allowed to serve its best interests in a post-war setting.

There's just one problem: often Azula is made to be subservient to Zuko. That now that she's serving him, she's a good guy now that Zuko acts as a sort of morality leash that keeps her from going too far.

This...doesn't actually solve her problems.

Part of her issues in canon stems from her blind loyalty and faith to the only person who ever showed her some form of kindness: Ozai. Something that meant she didn't dare question any of his actions and poisoned her relationship with Zuko. And inevitably (and tragically), that something that led to her downfall since her loyalty meant she couldn't be swayed by series end.

Having her swear fealty to Zuko, the new Fire Lord, is not solving the problem. She's just exchanging one master for another. None of the issues which caused her breakdown are not addressed. It's that blind loyalty aspect except for another leader. Considering that part of the reason for the Fire Nation's indoctrination is swearing absolute loyalty to the Fire Lord as seen in their anthem:

"My life I give to my country. With my hands I fight for Lord Ozai and our forefathers before him. With my mind I seek ways to better my country. And with my feet may our March of Civilization continue."

...could you imagine how it would look when one of the Fire Nation's old guard falls into this mindset with Zuko? That's not reformation. That's just placing a new and better ruler in charge without fixing anything.

Not to mention how...pretty damn sexist this whole thing is that Azula being good equals submitting to the authority of her brother on the basis that she should've known better than to defy him being the eldest song. Forgive for asking, but doesn't that seem problematic to the umpteenth degree. Especially since in canon Zuko was a pretty crappy brother? I'm sorry, but Azula redeeming herself by putting her brother's needs before hers is incredibly offensive for those that actually do sympathize and see her plight.

Can Azula being an ally of Zuko work? Absolutely. But these potholes are something that a lot of writers (including Bryke and Yang) keep falling into without realizing the implications behind them. If Azula is to be properly redeemed and for this storyline to work, she needs to come to this position of her own volition. No strings attached. No conditions. It needs to be her decision and her decision alone.

Azula's ultimate tragedy is that she never had much free will. Taking that away from her to serve someone else's will is not the way. Give her choice though, the choice to forge her own path, and now she's in a position to truly heal herself.

Omg. No one is saying they believe Katara IS a baby making machine. It is a criticism of the portrayal she was given in LoK. We are criticizing narratives portraying women as one dimensional and whose only purpose seems to be reduced to giving birth. We are saying that is bad. There is no reason that LoK Katara couldn't be a badass fighter if 90+ year old Zuko and Toph were also badass fighters. The only reason is that Bryke saw Katara as maternal and instead of letting her be multifaceted and show she is maternal, but also has a fighting streak in her, they stripped her of all her nuance once she became a homemaker. There is nothing bad or negative about being a homemaker, but for Katara's character, it does not make sense for her to not have been involved in politics, as she was heavily passionate about social justice reform, changing things for the future generations, and also waterbending combat and feminism. Katara should have been allowed to at least attempt to balance it all, but Bryke was sexist. They were sexist to Toph too, showing that when she tried to do both, she wound up a negligent mother. Without the backup team of skilled writers on ATLA to help them, Bryke fumbled and botched the gaang as adults and it was really lame.

x

the reason im not terrified of the live action atla show being bad the only sideeye i have is towards the sokka actor but i aint touching that with a ten foot pole im a basic white bitch i dont know shit if people are upset i do thin it makes sesnse he should have been played by a darker skin dude

but anyway the reason im lookng forward to the live action atla (AANG/KATARA/IROH look perfect for one)

Andis t no one is talking down to fans of the cartoon /or the show/ no one is calling the characters weak/lame/ insulting the female characters of the show

No one in charge is talking about how they want to do it better say the ppg 2016 (you got rid of keens boobs? Why??? people have boobs boobs aint sexual/ but everyone loves twerking 5 year olds

no one is talking shit about the female characters like the directors for the live action disney movies with people going ooh those original moves adult fans love are for KIDS adults cant enjoy em while insulting our lovely princesses

newest example we got the velma show insisting daphne was always just the hot one (bro i watched the first ep of the 60s show she was good at finding clues she was just.. very unlucky.. tho im not sure whats wrong with being pretty either.. im a fat girl i got no jealousy towards skinny hot chicks (helga/thorn/demona are all my ooh yes im bi awakenings) this constant talk down of pretty animated girls is just super weird insecurties

but anyway the directors haven't talked down to fans

insulted the femlae characters

(LIKE FANDOM DOES TO MAI she aint zuzos abuser people and Katara (she was never aangs damsel people come on im tired of yall momhaters) (seriously i feel shipping fandom insults the show as bad as the people who complain about how they could do it better prob cause thats exactly what the shippers have said )

the directors/ cast involved have had so much positive stuff to say about the original show/

so maybe it wont be amazing but im sure it will be 8/10

responding to @rahrahkatara's response to my response (lol)

1."Bryke [did not] deliberately work any nuanced gender discourse into the show" + "it can be tricky to tell if authors are doing their worldbuilding with values that are internally consistent with their character’s worldview, or if they’re simply injecting their own cultural biases into the narrative"

this is an interesting point, because it's probably true that bryke did not intentionally imbue atla with incisive gender politics. that said, i don't care whether or not it was intentional; my point still stands. when i interpret the gender dynamics of a text, the notion of whether the author was influenced by a conscious decision to include such commentary or was rather influenced by unconscious biases that informed the characters and worlds is irrelevant to me. i am analyzing the text itself. if i wanted to analyze the authors' intentions, i would do so, but that is simply not what i'm doing when i make posts such as these.

furthermore, your point that azula is not framed sympathetically is one i just straight up disagree with. obviously this is a very subjective claim, but i definitely think that azula is shown to be a sympathetic character within atla (whether or not bryke sympathize with her is another story). episodes like "the beach" and "sozin's comet" show the tragic effects of her upbringing and the emotional/psychological damage of ozai's abuse. people might treat azula with a sexist double standard both within the show and outside of it, but i don't think that means she's framed unsympathetically, unless you mean that she's framed as a villain, which i can't argue with nor would i want to. she is a villain. a sympathetic villain, but a villain nonetheless.

2. "aggression very much seemed to be the order of the day in the FN in Kyoshi’s time, even amongst women ; Sozin  just harnessed & directed that energy outwards towards the FN’s neighbours, rather than towards rival FN clans. The books suggest that super avoidant characters like Roku & Iroh were in fact the cultural anomalies" + "a whole nation doesn’t just wake up one day & choose violence, and it’s unrealistic to blame systemic issues on one person (Sozin)"

i've read the kyoshi novels, and i like them. as you say, the fire nation citizens behaved aggressively towards rival clans. but by the time of roku and sozin, there were no rival clans. roku was completely secure in his status as a high ranking nobleman, and thus had no reason to show aggression or competitiveness. since he was sixteen, he was taught to be an impartial mediator who made choices that were best for the sake of the world, rather than for one nation. the fact that he isn't able to remain impartial is actually what ruins his legacy, specifically because he lets sozin off the hook in the name of their past friendship.

obviously sozin tapped into preexisting cultural expectations and systems, but i think he'd be a bit offended to hear that you can't attribute his fascist regime to one person. fascism never comes out of nowhere–my guess is that the state of the world steeply declined after kyoshi's death, and sozin capitalized on those anxieties by presenting himself as a pillar of strength for his citizens to emulate–and a culture that values displays of aggression and power is far more likely to adopt imperialist ideals than say, if an air nomad suddenly tried to implement fascism among their community. but it's clear that sozin wants to be seen as the individual who shaped the fire nation in his image, even if it was already mostly there to begin with. i don't think it's unfair to attribute the fire nation's shift into becoming an imperialist power to sozin, considering that he did have the power of absolute ruler and it was 100% his decisions which led to the genocide and colonization of the other nations. the fire nation may have long been an image-obsessed, power-hungry, aggressive, violent, and individualistic place, but sozin was able to stoke those values to achieve an ends they might not have considered were he not their ruler, and that counts for a lot.

Some (Disturbing) Statistics on Gender in ATLA

Several months ago, I collected some statistics on gender in ATLA. I posted part of what I’m about say here on another website, but the last part will be all new.

So, mostly based off the official Lore-Archive, I did a count of benders of any significance(deserving of a lore-archive entry, or significant enough that they should have a lore-archive entry) of each gender in A:TLA. For characters younger than ~18, the numbers were rather even, with 4 males and 3 females. For characters older than 18, the numbers were not the least bit even. I came up with 40 male characters who are benders and only 5 female characters. Of these 5, 2 of them were Avatar Kyoshi and Avatar Yangchen, who are avatars and in their own category. The other three were Sister Iio, who barely appears, Yagoda, who only uses her waterbending for healing in accordance with the Northern Water Tribe's patriarchal norms, and Hama, who is evil. I believe Toph is literally the only (non-Avatar) female earthbender depicted in the show. Azula is the only female firebender of any significance depicted in the show, with the only other female firebenders being a couple prison guards at Boiling Rock, only one of which has any lines. This is a disturbing pattern, and it continues in reference to female authority figures. I counted 49 male authority figures in the show, and only 11 female authority figures(who act with authority over anyone but their own children and grandchildren). Interestingly, I wasn't even able to count Mai and Ty Lee as authority figures, even though I'm pretty sure Azula gave them pretty broad authority to command, because they're never shown giving orders. Of the 9 female authority figures who are not Avatars, only 4 of them exercise authority over males: Aunt Wu, the leader of one of the tribes in the Great Divide, Ms. Kwan, and Azula. And, of course, Azula, by far the most significant female authority figure in the show, is "crazy" and "evil." Ironically, she's mostly "crazy" and "evil" for (usually more successfully) attempting the same sort of actions her always sympathetically framed brother attempts to do.

This gender discrepancy is continued even if we just consider the number of male and female characters who appear, period(without counting spirits because they’re theoretically genderless). Using the Lore-archive method to find only characters of any significance, we arrive at a figure off 105 male characters and 37 female characters who appear(there are some ambiguities here about counting entries which cover groups of characters). By another method, utilizing the character list here, we arrive at 115 male characters and 44 female characters.

Is this gender discrepancy merely an attempt to accurately show the sexist gender dynamics of historical East Asian societies? One way is to look at the Legend of Korra. LoK never deals with gender, and the implication that the show attempts to convey is that we’re looking at relatively gender-egalitarian societies.

Yet, through the first two books of LoK, there are(using this character listing) non-spirit 104 male characters and 30 female characters(full disclosure: that character listing doesn’t include any characters introduced after episode 208, but in the final six episodes of the season only two non-spirit characters with more than one line are introduced, both of them male, and the overwhelming majority of characters with one line are male).

So, if anything, the gender discrepancy got worse in the first two seasons of LoK. ATLA and LoK were both shows that were very progressive on gender in certain ways, but ultimately the writers and creators of each seem to have fallen into the old default of making every remotely significant character male, unless there was a reason to make said character a woman. In ATLA’s case, that “reason” usually boiled down to “this character is the wife or mother of someone else.”

Part of the reason why Ka.taang falls so flat for me—well, besides *gestures wildly at everything*—is that Katara being "confused" about her feelings for Aang, and wanting to wait to talk about them, is not that believable.

She says they have "other things to worry about"—okay, that's understandable I GUESS. A little weird for Katara because she didn't even wait five minutes before cozying up to Jet even though they also had "other things to worry about," but whatever, let's say this is different since they're so close to ending it.

"This isn't the right time"...but after the war is the right time, because then she's going to magically understand her feelings and act on them? (Yeah actually.) Here's the thing: these kids are at WAR, they know they could die, and Katara, who is clearly a romantic, would probably not let someone she truly has feelings for face his possible death without telling him the truth. Even if she didn't want to start a relationship before the war ended, she could still say, "I LIKE YOU, BUT—"

I mean, "I don't know," "I'm confused," and "This isn't the right time" are ways someone young might let a friend down gently. Especially if, idk, that friend was about to go face his death.

I know the real reasons Katara said she was confused—all narrative reasons, like Bryke wanted her reciprocated feelings to be a surprise and wanted Aang to get the girl after he won the war. But I can't help being furious anyway, and my anger feels a lot like it does when I'm railing against something sexist.

if anyone else saw the post saying that katara was gonna be 16 and sokka was gonna be 14 in the live action here is my take:

im pissed ab this.

and no, it’s not because its most likely being done so they can make zutara a couple. i dont care about that. i have nothing against zutara. i may not ship it myself but if you ship it good for you. ive seen cute fanart and cute fanfics for zutara that ive really enjoyed. i like zutara. not my favorites but i dont dislike them. just wanted to make that clear. that isnt what im mad about here.

im pissed because its gonna ruin katara and sokka’s characters.

by making katara older there is not a doubt in my mind that they will make her more “motherly” seeing as she will likely be responsible for taking care of sokka and aang. there has already been way too many issues in this fandom with stereotypes of katara being reduced to “just the mom friend” and nothing else. in my opinion many of the mom friend stereotypes that have been pushed onto katara in fanon has led to a lot of sexism towards katara and this will inevitably end up forcing the mother role onto her even more and thats just a no no for me. katara literally fights sexism in the NWT, plz dont force her to be a 16 year old girl forced to care for her brother and the avatar because she is older than them. katara deserves more than being forced into a motherly role for aang and sokka. again this is just my take on what i think will happen if katara is made to be the older sibling. i could be wrong. but i would really hate to see this happen because i know itll result in more sexism towards katara and i would really hate to see that.

and now sokka. a major part of sokkas character comes from the fact that he is an extremely protective older brother. because he is the OLDER brother he feels the need to be the man if the tribe. he is very responsible and very serious. this all stems from the fact that he is OLDER. he even says that he is the leader because of it. sokka pretty much IS the leader because he keeps these younger kids on track as an older brother. his insecurities largely stem from the fact that his little sister is a prodigy bender and he is not. there was literally a whole episode about it. and being an older brother w a prodigy sibling mirrors zuko and azula PERFECTLY and that parrallel is one of the most compelling things about atla!!! that will all be flushed down the drain. sure you can still have sexist sokka getting his butt whooped by suki without him being the older brother, sure sokka would likely still be insecure of his status as a nonbender without being the older brother, but in my opinion it would be much less compelling that way seeing as it stems from his status as. an. older. brother. his status as the older brother is also part of the reason why his relationship with hakoda is so interesting as well. his father left him behind to be the man of the tribe because he was older. he wants to make his father proud by proving that he can be a man. his healthyrelationship woth hakoda also DIRECTLY parrallels to zukos horrible relationship with ozai. WHICH IS ALSO AN EXTREMELY COMPELLING PART OF ATLA. sokka just wants to make his father proud by proving that he CAN protect katara. without this, his protectiveness is gone, leaving his protectiveness over Yue in the northern tribe and his protectiveness of suki at serpents pass and his protectiveness of toph on the airship rooted in nothing. sokka is protective BECAUSE he is the older brother. sokka as the younger sibling will reduce him to nothing more than comedic relief and strip him of much of the traits that make him an amazing three dimensional character.

all in all you dont have to agree with me. im not one of the writers. i cant confirm that mom friend katara and comedic relief sokka are what will result in the live action show due to the age swap. but i am very very very very VERY confident that that is what the characters we know and love will be reduced to should this occur. just my thoughts. just my opinion. (if you disagree thats okay but plz be respectful i tried v hard to be respectful when writing this as well)

tl;dr while it may seem inconsequential to change the ages of sokka and katara their roles and older brother and younger sister help shape their characters and changing that just to make zutara canon (even tho i have nothing against zutara. zutara stans please do not attack me ur ship is cute i swear.) it will also change the dynamic of the show we know and love and i am too attached to their original character arcs to be happy with this change.

have a lovely day everyone. go drink some tea and read a fluffy fic and distract urself from another live action atla disaster.

:)

EDIT: keep in mind the age swap isnt like totally confirmed yet so this could all end up being for nothing but yk still wanted to put my thoughts out there🥰 now if you will excuse me im going to write a college essay and then some fanfic cuz why not

EDIT TWO: pretty sure its fake. im sorry for how long this is. false alarm everyone! i think! i hope!

EDIT THREE: i ship zutara now lol. i still stand by this post tho. not happy ab the character age swaps.