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ilikekidsshows · 4 months

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hey I figure that you’re probably tired of talking about the Sentimonster nonsense but I genuinely still can’t stand that it’s an actual thing. The wildest thing about it is that I JOINED the fandom because of the Sentimonster theory, actually got excited for it and looked forward to hints, not believing the skeptics or the salters bc it didn’t seem like such a big deal—that is until I saw with my own eyes how SO MANY FANS said with their whole chest that, in “Ephemeral” Adrien HAD to be a Sentimonster or there was no other “sympathetic explanation” for why he didn’t de-akumatize himself or fight off Gabriel.

Seeing the victim blaming in real time was such a punch in the gut—and then they just kept on coming!! It finally hit me how damaging the entire thing because for the show as a whole. If even regular fans that weren’t even known for salting could so willingly disregard and ignore genuine abuse coping mechanisms in favor of magical BS… it was such a dark time. Abuse Apologism and victim blaming in a whole package

Sometimes, when I write about Miraculous, I pretend I'm writing about a show that only had three seasons. That's what the "zagulous fandom" tag is for; it's for posts that are about the parts of Miraculous that had Zag's executive control keeping Astruc in check. I also kinda accepted long ago that my blog's kind of a support blog for people who are against the Sentihuman concept.

When I first heard of the expanded Sentimonster theory, the one that went "all the rich kids are Sentimonsters", I instantly went: "You do realize how making victims of child abuse nonhumans with questionable rights minimizes their victimhood and excuses their abusers, right?" people told me I was making stuff up and whoopsie doo, the writers did exactly that.

Neither Gabriel nor Tomoe faced any consequences for abusing Adrien and Kagami because, after all, since they're Sentimonsters, the real abuse was that they didn't have their Amoks so giving them their Amoks resolves all their problems. The only abusive parent who gets acknowledged as such is Félix's dad, who is dead by the time we hear about any of this, because we can't have abusive parents face consequences for their actions because that might upset people or whatever excuses Astruc's giving for Gabriel's vindication now.

This also minimises all the affects of the abuse on the kids, since they can be handwaved away with: "They were just programmed that way." Kagami's bad social skills aren't because her mother isolated her, it's because she forgot to program Kagami with those skills. Félix's villainous behavior isn't because his mother is overly permissive with him, he was just programmed that way (by the eeeeevil Colt). Adrien isn't a people pleaser because he's repeating his abuse coping mechanisms with his overly controlling girlfriend to keep her happy the same way he did to his overly controlling father, he was just programmed to be the perfect doting son and boyfriend.

You'll notice how neatly this ties into the crew denying that Chloé was abused in any way ever by her clearly abusive mother. Chloé wasn't made into a Sentimonster, so we can't have her bad coping with her abuse be excused by "Sentimonster programming", so now the writers are just gaslighting the audience and saying: "Chloé wasn't mistreated by her parents which caused her to act to out to get attention (which she literally stated to be her motive in season 3), in fact, she's the one who's been terrorizing her poor, innocent father and he needs to be protected from this naturally occuring evil hellspawn."

All child abuse in this show gets excused.

Of course, now the writers have an added reason to make sure Adrien's abuse gets excused in particular: because they made Marinette benefit from it. As I said, Adrien is repeating abuse coping mechanisms learned from dealing with his father to keep Marinette happy. He's always prioritizing her feelings and never brings up his own problems, and this is good for Marinette, because she can just enjoy having a perfect boyfriend who caters to her every need and doesn't have problems of his own or with the ways she treats him (for all she knows). She's even maintaining this status quo by lying about Gabriel to Adrien, so Adrien won't get upset (and have emotional needs that she would need to help him with). Either we have to excuse Adrien's abuse, or we have to admit Marinette is benefitting from the fact that Adrien was abused, and even taking advantage with the way she makes no effort to improve their communication on her end, preferring to spy on Adrien and lie to him instead of just talking to him like an equal.

The show writers are also allergic to following through on their creative decisions, is what I think. They put all these different victims of child abuse and neglect in the show, and then dehumanized these children in different ways so that they wouldn't actually need to say anything about that abuse they wrote in and they can instead pretend it was never there. This is why I also think that, no matter how much the show's defenders insist the story isn't over yet, we will never be getting a proper resolution to the Sentinonsense.

#ml critical #ml salt #sentimonster salt #ml writers critical

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miraculouslbcnreactions · 2 months

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what's your opinion about the whole "hints of Adrien as sentimonster already exist and obvious from s1 and sentimonster Adrien is not just a theory, never been"

This already stated by the ambassador in twitter when s4 aired but I just... call me denial or stupid, but those "hints" that people claimed as one? doesn't looks like hints at all for me. Like, there's other explanation for, say, Adrien feather allergy, other than "it's hint that he's a sentimonster" and this "hints" that they claimed range from trivial one like feather allergy to the irritating one like "reason Adrien can't disobey Gabriel is because he's a sentimonster."

It's irritating because as an ex abused child, seeing people claimed Adrien trauma respond as "hint that he's sentimonster" is irritating, it's invalidating for me. There's no amount of "yes Adrien is abused, him being a sentimonster doesn't change the fact that he's an abused child" validating my experience and feelings as an ex abused child because That! Is! Not! The same!! Our experience is difference!!!

I'm sorry for the rant it just everytime I see people praised the sentimonster Adrien plot or how it's already been there from the first time, make me want to pull my hair. Not only because of the reason I stated above but also because that means I feel like i spend years watching this show just for me to be tricked by the showrunner. ...or it just me who's reading the show wrong like my friends said, that it's never a show where Adrien fight for his freedom, realized that he's abused and get out from that situation, that its like my friend said, this show is Marinette story, it's never been about Adrien, that he's never meant to be more than love interest despite his name is in the title.

I hate it...

I think the so-called "hints" are just things that people came up with in an act of desperation to justify bad story telling as it's quite clear that Adrien wasn't a sentimonster until season four. Possibly even late season four. Fans of the BS point to minor things to try to prove that this was always the plan while ignoring massive plot holes introduced by the twist. I made a list of these plot holes, but the two big ones are Chat Blanc and Gorizilla. These episodes would not exist if the sentimonster plot had been the plan from day one.

If Adrien was always a sentimonster, then Chat Blanc and Ephemeral should have been near identical since both episode let Gabriel control the time and place of final fight by luring his son to his lair, meaning that Gabriel had time to get the ring in both episodes, but the episodes are wildly different. Adrien had free will in Chat Blanc while Ephemeral was basically used to verify the senti-twist for the first time. I don't know how anyone can watch both of those episodes and claim that this isn't clear evidence of a massive retcon or - at the very least - terrible writing.

Similarly, Gorizilla has Gabriel straight up say "[Adrien is] hiding something for sure... there's only one way for us to uncover his secret." If the sentimonster plot had been planned from day one, then the "one way" would have been using the ring. Instead, Gabriel risks his son's life because Adrien wasn't a sentimonster at this point, so Gabriel couldn't force the answer out of him. And don't even try to say that this just means that Gabe wasn't willing to use the rings at this point. He literally lets his kid almost die in this episode! A little forced Q&A is nothing compared to that and him using the ring is not treated as a big deal by the story. He has no change of heart moment where he puts it on for the first time. He just starts using it in the later half of season four almost as if that's when it came into existence.

As for the things people point to, I've talked about the feather allergy in particular before because that one just drives me up a wall. Tldr: Adrien is a magical construct that is exactly what he was intended to be by his creator and no other sentimonster has been shown to have a feather allergy, so if you really think that this is foreshadowing, then you're basically arguing that Emilie designed her kid to have a feather allergy as some weird sort of joke. This is extra true since the allergy is explicitly stated to be a pigeon allergy and not a catch-all feather allergy.

There's also the fact that one of the writers posted the original script of Origins on twitter which revealed that the peacock wasn't originally going to be missing from (or possible in) the miracle box, meaning that it was only added later in the game, which is not shocking in the slightest given the way that Adrien was written in season one. To be more explicit, he's not written as a sheltered romantic. Like, remember how Nino asked Adrien for dating advice back in Animan and Adrien was just like "ask Marinette on a date to the zoo!" That's normal teen type advice, not sheltered teen advice and especially not advice from roses-and-candlelit-rooftop dates Chat Noir who doesn't really exist until season two.

In my opinion, the senti plot only became a thing in the fandom because it explains Emilie's sickness if you assume that she knew what using the peacock would mean, but chose to use it anyway, which was a reasonable assumption. It's one I made! But we now know that she probably didn't have any clue because Félix wouldn't exist if the consequences were known as shown by the play in Representation (S5E24) which gave us these lines:

Félix: (as Gabriel) After much study, I have discovered a solution for you and your wife. But there will be a price to pay. You will give me your best knight to guard my future son. In exchange, I will lend you this magic amulet. It will allow you to give life to your dream and to control it. Félix: Some time after his son was born, the lord of war fell ill. And the weaker he grew, the more convinced he became that he was paying the price for using magic.

I remember watching this, hearing the "there will be a price to pay" line and thinking, "Oh, so they did actually know what the peacock would do. Interesting." Only for the plot twist that this is just Gorilla's origin story. In retrospect, it was honestly kinda funny, but the big takeaway here is still that the story never needed to justify Emilie using the peacock because she apparently didn't chose to die for her child. She only found out that having a sentichild would kill her after Adrien already existed at which point it was too late to give fully informed consent. Given the implication of how the Agreste's got the peacock, it's kind of hard to feel bad for her. If anything, it feels like karma, but we don't know how much Gabriel hid from her so I could be wrong. We'll probably never know for sure because I highly doubt that the Agreste plot will be revisited in a meaningful way.

In summary, the senti twist is terribly setup and ultimately pointless. It adds nothing to the story outside of cheap drama and means one of two things: the twist was a massive, last-minute retcon or the writers are terrible at following their own lore and setting up twists. Neither option is good, but if you like the senti twist (a POV I'll never understand), then you don't want to acknowledge that because you want to feel like it was a good addition instead of something that should have stayed in the realms of fanfiction where authors could reshape canon to make the twist work or treat it with the severity it deserves.

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On a more personal note, I'm sorry that you're feeling invalidated by people's reaction to this twist. I agree that the ways its played really downplays and even outright ignores Adrien's trauma which is extra disappointing since it could have been used to highlight just how much Adrien's home life has hurt him. Supposedly he's no different from a normal human, but no normal human would be okay having their free will overwritten like he has. This change in status hasn't actually changed anything about how messed up his treatment has been unless you don't think Adrien is equal to a normal human.

Basically, there's a lot of cognitive dissonance that goes on in the minds of fans who like the way canon has handled this theory.

Even if we ignore that, the fact that Adrien's not the main character doesn't mean that he deserves to be nothing more than Ladybug's perfect, magical arm-candy. One of the show's major flaws is its obsession with focusing everything on Marinette. I've talked before about how that choice does her no favors.

Most long-running TV shows understand that it's actually a good idea to flesh out more than one character because you need a strong ensemble cast to make long-running shows work. Ron Stoppable, Tuxedo Mask, and other girl-power male love interests show us that good shows tend to give the love interest more development as time goes on. Meanwhile, Miraculous has made Adrien less and less important with each passing season even though he's a titular characters.

No, being in the title doesn't mean that he has to be important, but I use that phrasing as a short hand for the fact that Chat Noir was important for the first four seasons. The fact that his name was in the title made sense and felt totally earned because he'd earned equal billing to the lead. He was key to the plot. His father was the villain. He and Ladybug were the only holders chosen by Master Fu and the only holders given their miraculous full time. Chat Noir was also the emotional core of every final, giving Ladybug the strength to win the day. In other words, we were given the show the title promised until, suddenly, we weren't. The "twist" is that Adrien doesn't matter outside of giving Marinette someone to kiss and trauma dump on and we're now going into a season where the villain no longer has anything to do with Adrien and where everyone has a miraculous, so don't expect that status quo to improve. The bug and cat team is dead and gone.

So, no, I don't think that you were reading the show wrong by expecting Adrien's backstory to mean something. You're perfectly valid to expect good, logical writing instead of the nonsense we got. Hopefully you can find some good content in other works or in fanfiction for this show. The main reason that I write Miraculous fanfic is because there are so many good ideas that have been totally squandered in the name of cheep petty drama and it's natural to feel disheartened by that. The only reason I'm not devastated by season five is because I personally thought that the Queen Bee plot was a canary in a coal mine, warning us that this show was going to have terrible writing for anything that lasted longer than an episode. I never imagined how bad it would get, though, or I probably would have stopped watching sooner instead of keeping up with canon so that I could follow the fan content.

I have personally taken a great deal of pleasure in writing stuff where Adrien's trauma is acknowledge, Gabriel pays for his crimes, and Marinette gets to be a good supportive girlfriend instead of treating Adrien as her therapist while he gets nothing. I think it would have been beautiful if the show had focused more on Chat Noir being Ladybug's support instead of mostly using him as comic relief. If they'd gone that route, then they could have very easily let the roles reverse after Gabriel's defeat, letting Marinette finally have a chance to support Adrien after everything he's done for her. That's how you write a satisfying, balanced romance for the ages.

#ml writing salt #ml writing critical #ml season 5 salt #senti salt

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theerurishipper · 5 months

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Your reblog about the senti thing make me LOLing so hard because of the senti defender when shoved a fact that contradict their theory mostly act like "Yeah, I didn't think that far" except they never said it out loud!

I remember when s4 still airing and these senti defender said "senti lives matter!" But whenever I ask, "what about that lolipop thing? Feast? Senti Moth?" They always said "They don't have the same level of intelligence as senti human, probably only at the level of animal"

So basically they said it's ok to kill a senti as long as they either don't looks like human or they have low intelligence. This came from the same people who preach that sentimonster is a good methapor for abuse or disabilities.

In the end it boil down to "if hero kill it, it's good but if villain kill it, it's bad" double standard and I couldn't even fathom what so good about the whole sentimonster!human thing except to make an obedient puppet.

"Yeah, hope Chat can have a upgrade power that could destroy the connection between amok and the senti" they said. Except he already did. TA said in his tweet the reason why Reflekdoll or any senti that gone berserk due to the cataclysm is /exactly/ because the connection was destroyed. It didn't free them, it make them berserk. And ironically, this tweet also what make people think the reason why Chat Blanc is so feral is because half of his amok got destroyed, instead of the long isolation and guilt that eat him.

Also a so called child psychologist preach the whole sentimonster is good methapor for abuse thing make me facepalmed, hard. Why need methapor if it's so obvious? Is miraculous going to put on disclaimer : Attention, no real child is being harmed here. Why take the whole abuse theme if they're not going to do it correctly? Who the heck approved this kind of theme??

Sorry for the long rant and thank you for reading my incoherent rant.

You said it, anon.

The Sentimonster theory is a shitty metaphor for abuse or disability. What it says to me is that if your disability isn't convenient or "normal," then you don't matter. Hence the "human" Sentimonsters like Adrien, Felix and Kagami who can fit into society are accepted, but the other Sentimonsters are disposable, despite them having the same amount of sentience and life as any of the human ones.

So Senti lives matter, but only if they're a particular type of Senti. If not, then they're not really alive and can be disposed of without a single thought spared to them (even though that's not true, because Felix treated Red Sun like a sister, and Feast, Sentibubbler, etc. clearly had emotions). Which means... only socially acceptable Senti rights matter. The rest of them only exist to be killed by the heroes. The heroes get to decide which Sentis matter and which ones don't, and the only ones that matter to them are the ones that look like them.

And like... if you're going to have an arc about making us understand that these creatures are just like us and have a life and emotions of their own, then don't create classes and divisions between them from the get-go. Don't portray some of them as more worthy than the others. Nothing in the show suggests that the creation of Adrien, Felix or Kagami was in any way different from the creation of Feast or any other Sentimonster. The argument that they are different because they were created to be humans is also bogus, because of Sentibug. She was created not to be a human, but to be a copy of Ladybug, yet she still had free will. All the justifications for this theory fall apart if we think about it for more than 5 seconds.

And the whole Chat Blanc thing you mentioned is part of a larger problem in this fandom, which involves attributing common reactions to abuse in abuse victims to them being artificially created beings. Adrien listens too much to his father? It must be because he's a Sentimonster and is being controlled, not because Gabriel has conditioned him to be subservient to him all his life! They are literally saying victims of abuse and their reactions to abuse are "unnatural," and can only happen if they weren't human at all. I despise this implication, especially since the show doubled down on it.

And it's not like this was a necessary writing choice. What does Adrien being a Sentimonster contribute to his's character? What did the revelation that he's being mind-controlled help us understand about him? What new facet to his character did we learn about? Nothing, really. There is no exploration of what Adrien being a Sentimonster means for him. He doesn't even find out about it. The only reason Adrien became a Sentimonster is so that the writers could justify leaving him out of the finale and so that they could have an obstacle for Adrienette. And I will say, introducing the whole "Sentimonsters deserve free-will" plot point and then using the characters' Senti status as an excuse to deprive them of agency in their own battles is... certainly a choice.

The Sentimonster theory isn't this groundbreaking exploration of the concept of humanity and free-will, nor is it this subversive metaphor for something that was already being portrayed blatantly in the show. It's something the writers used as a plot device to justify removing the three most plot relevant characters from the story so that Marinette could have the finale to herself. That's it. There's nothing more to it than that.

Which is why the concept is so poorly developed. The whole Senti rights thing is brought for about five minutes in Emotion and maybe two minutes in Pretension. After this, Felix, the main advocate for Senti rights himself falls back on all his ideals and creates a Sentimonster to use and then kill. The heroes have spent three seasons killing these livings creatures without a single care in the world. The moral implications of this are never questioned in any way, even though the show pretends it's presenting this thoughtful and nuanced commentary on the matter. No one cares about Sentimonsters. Sentibug is presented as this big deal, but they don't think about her for more than five seconds and then she is never brought up again. Sentimonsters do not matter in this show. Not to the villains, not to the heroes, not even those who start of advocating for them stick to that cause. The narrative doesn't care about Sentimonsters. Any justification made for it just paints in a worse light. It's a shitty metaphor for anything, and it's just a shitty plot point in general.

Thank you for your ask!

#ML Salt #ML Writing Salt #ML Writers Salt #ML Fandom Salt #Sentimonsters #Meta #My meta #Asks

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nangbaby · 11 months

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One of the more annoying parts about the whole sentimonster subplot taking over Miraculous Ladybug is how it resulted in the breakdown of the connection between the Peacock Miraculous and its associated concept - emotion.

With the Season 2 finale, we were given a glimpse of what the Peacock Miraculous could do, and with Season 3 we are introduced to what sentimonsters were. They were beings born out of a strong emotion and were, in many ways, the embodiment of that emotion.

Season 3 also introduced the seemingly now forgotten idea that sentimonsters, as the embodiment of emotions, can go amok just based on those emotions alone. Lollipop Boy rampaged because it was the manifestation of a baby's volatile emotional state. Feast went on a rampage even before Fu lost the staff because it was born out of Master Fu's resentment and hunger. Mayura creating a Ladybug sentimonster implied that creating sentipeople was not necessarily an easy or trivial task and required intense emotional control, possibly for the existence of the creation. While there were theories about secret sentimonsters, there were also still people who believed that Sentibug was a philosophical zombie and that she may have "run amok" even with possession of her own object. It was ambiguous for a reason and the whole point of sentimonsters were that they were emotions themselves made manifest that could potentially go haywire even without a Cataclysm.

However, with Season 4, creating sentimonster clones was as easy as pie for Shadow Moth. The idea that sentimonsters were born out of a specific emotion was replaced with the idea that this Peacock Miraculous could create replicants and it was made much more clear that these creatures were sapient. This led to Season 5 in which the ethical dilemma of creating life via feathers was finally given a few lines. That said, this has taken the Peacock Miraculous even further afield from its initial function. "Sentimonster" is a wholly unfitting name for a Peacock Miraculous creation, and not just because of the "monster" part -- they aren't even created from sentiment any more, but the will of the Miraculous holder.

To me, this makes the exposition given in Representation unsatisfying. Given the Peacock Miraculous contained the kwami of emotion, it would stand to reason that the creator's emotions would manifest in the behavior of the creations as they did with Feast. If the reason why Adrien was the "perfect" son and Felix was a troublemaker was due to Adrien being manifested out of true love while Felix was manifested out of envy and that formed their personalities, then this would still be tied to the idea of emotions creating life. (Felix could still reform, but he'd have to fight his very nature and own feelings to do so.) Instead we get "Colt Fathom was a monster and Felix had no choice." It's not necessarily a bad backstory, but the link between emotion and how it powers existence is lost.

#ml representation #ml season 5 spoilers #ml salt #ml representation spoiler #spoilers #ml spoilers #miraculous ladybug

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lostuntothisworld · 8 days

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An updated List of ML Crack Theories I Am Considering, part 1

Part 2 here

Adrien has never eaten a potato

Adrien is going to wear a white version of this jacket for the second story arc.

There were at least 3 different Ladybugs before Maribug and the whole show is a 15 year timeloop.

Adrien was a previous Ladybug and Felix was a previous Chat Noir, but not at the same time. Felix is actually the rogue Chat Noir Su-Han should have been worried about.

Adrien/Felix, Emilie/Amelie, and Gabe/Colt were originally one single person. Certain previous Wishes via Gabemoth or someone else split them all up into two people, and the previous Ladybugs lost their humanity and became sentimonsters.

The two disguises Lilamoth wears in season 5 were previous Ladybugs she stole the lives of.

Marinette became a sentimonster in the Wish because someone Wished to be human (probably Gabe or Colt), and all the actual changes in the Universe happened off screen, and the show's trajectory/story itself is unchanged.

Colt was brought back to life with the Wish and is in cahoots with Tomoe. He is also technically the same person as Gabriel

The lighning behind Lilamoth in the season 5 finale has to do with Colt Fathom

The United Heroes are too detailed not to be important later

The moon represents Adrichat, and maybe also the previous Ladybugs, and not the Love Square or LadyNoir like the fandom theorizes

We've already met the people who are The Supreme

Derision was a red herring and NOT completely the reason Marinette has issues with love

Anne-Jeanne Theoxanne du Bocquale is a time traveling adopted daughter of Lukadrien or Marigami Adrienette

Bob Roth is gonna make good on his promise that Luka is going to sing for him no matter what.

Adrien's bedroom in the Agreste Mansion was originally the Master Suite

Adrien is going to intern at the Dupain-Cheng bakery. It will not end well.

Luka is going to work for the new flower shop next door, by doing flower deliveries. This will end better because of... reasons.

The ring Felix gave Kagami isn't actually her amok, but an identical copy.

Luka's nightmare (which we never find out in the season 5 finale, oddly enough) is that his actions reveal Ladybug and Chat Noir's identities, Monarque finds out, takes advantage of this and secures the Miraculous and makes his wish... Somehow Luka finds out about Ephemeral, and is horrified that his actions caused the end of the world. He goes to Marinette and she tells him that "the timeline doesn't exist anymore," so he shouldn't feel bad that his actions caused the wish to occur. "Everyone makes mistakes." We as the audience know she is trying to make herself feel better about her choices in the season 5 finale. She begins a word salad about how even Chat Noir flooded the entire planet and nearly destroyed the universe in Chat Blanc, but the timeline no longer exists and it's all okay now! So now both boys know they ended the world in deleted timelines.

The main conflict of season 6 will be the reveal of Ephemeral and Chat Blanc. Season 7 will end in revealing The Truth to Adrien. Season 8 will be about figuring out how to sever Adrien's connection to his amoks, and the Peacock Miraculous.

Luka will be the one to reveal The Truth to Adrichat

Luka will help Adrien sever his connection to his amoks and the Peacock Miraculous. The Miraculous Ladybugs can't bring back a sentimonster after the amok has been destroyed, but Second Chance can give them infinite tries to figure out how to sever the connections.

Human sentimonsters can do and be anything a normally created person can do EXCEPT reproduce. Sentimonsters cannot create life.

The Peacock Miraculous broke from whoever created Kagami. There's something poetic about a girl named mirror is the one who was created to be perfect and the image of a broken mirror.

Adrien is his own dead twin sister, which is why he has two amoks

Adrien was not his original planned name. He was actually named after his dead twin sister Adrienne, once his parents learned he was connected to both amoks. I'm partial to his original planned name being Celeste, which is a unisex name in France.

Emilie and Amelie (identical twins) are both sentimonsters who share one amok (The moonstone star brooch that Emelie wears)

The actual moon is a sentimonster, and Adrien will time-travel 4 billion years into the past to recreate the Theia Impact in a future season after a long character arc of personal growth, healing, and accepting The Truth. (I'll admit this one is more wishful hoping than anything else lmao)

Ladynoir is dead. Marichat is dead. Ladrien is dead. I think they're going to kill Adrienette sooner rather than later.

Adrien falls in love (or thinks he falls in love) with Marinette due to an amok order by a time traveling Lilamoth. (Adrienette getting together pretty much opened the way for Gabe to get his wish, and thus Lilamoth's acquisition of the Butterfly Miraculous.)

After a rewatch, and studying the transcript, I think there's a possibility Maribug would have kept The Truth from Adrien even if Gabe never asked her to.

Gabe failed his redemption character arc of moving on and letting go of Emilie. Emilie's dying wish was for Gabe to move on, properly parent Adrien, and allow him to choose his own happiness. Instead, Gabe made his own wish in order to be with her in death, abandoning Adrien. But before he did that, he gave Marinette his blessing to be with his son, with stipulations that she never tell him The Truth. I think Gabe ALSO passed on his failed character arc to Marinette. She is going to have to learn to let Adrien go.

Felix is a morally gray antihero who will actually get a proper backstory and redemption. He is working for Colt but he doesn't want to. This is just a pipedream tho lol

Lukadrien and Marigami are endgame

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teawinx · 1 year

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My friend on discord suggested this idea:

Sentimonster theory but it’s Marinette

She’s an Sentimonster made specifically to become Ladybug and later the Guardian. The internal crisis, the drama? Discovering it when being Ladybug is something she’s not exactly happy about? Yes.

Her whole life, her dreams and goals are all to be tossed aside, because she is Ladybug and that is all she’ll ever be expect to be. Her whoooole life would be a lie, would her parents know? Are they in on it? Who knows!

The exact explanations and lore for this idk, but as a concept it could be fun. And yeah poor Marinette has already been put through the ringer, but I genuinely believe that she’d make a lot compelling Senti than Adrien could ever be.

And yeah this would make for a very very different tone for the series, but the writer in me loves it.

#sentimonster theory #but Marinette instead of Adrien #literally anyone makes for a more interesting Sentimonster than Adrien #That's the tea #Miraculous ladybug au

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kiarabanetmi · 11 months

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Thoughts on the end of Chloe’s story in Season 5: spoilers for Season 5 up to Revolution

I understand why it was done

In the end, Chloe ultimately chose to stop trying to do good like she was trying to do in season 2 and half of season 3

When her idol, Ladybug, didn’t reward her anymore for being good by saying she could no longer have the Bee Miraculous for her own safety, Chloe saw it as a betrayal, because her idol had given it back to her once and said she’d been better, but now she was taking it away? Where’s the reward in that? Why be and do good when you get something like that taken away by someone you admire? So she became bitter and cold and cruel again, and then was convinced to stay that way due to Hawkmoth. (I couldn’t find any decent screenshots of these scenes, but these events took place in Season 3 episodes Miraculer and she fully regressed back in the Season 3 finale Heart Hunter and Miracle Queen).

All her choices are her own (unless the sentimonster theory is true then that’s a whole other issue, but that’s a theory for another day).

I also made another observation: her behavior got MUCH worse again after the season 3 finale not just because of Hawkmoth and his manipulations, but because her toxic mother decided to stay in Paris full time at the end of the season 3 finale. This gave her someone who actively approved of and encouraged Chloe’s awful behavior, giving her attention and praise as she behaved worse and worse to those who were “less than” them. Her father only enabled her (which is JUST as bad), but he never actively encouraged her to act worse and worse. We saw before in Style Queen and Maledictator how she idolized her mother so much, and sought her approval in any way. With her staying in Paris, Chloe had every reason to believe she could and should act the way she did, cause someone she looked up to and admired and loved approved of it and gave her attention when she did it. We were even shown dialogue examples of this encouragement of abusing and tormenting throughout season 5 (Adoration).

So she decided to stay cruel and mean and abandon any sense of trying to do good anymore, and chose what she knew and was comfortable with: abusing people and power. (Example: her statement to Adrien at the end of Derision).

And she found someone who finally encouraged her awful behavior rather than just cheering along or just going along with it (like Sabrina). Lila. She found someone to bounce ideas off of, someone who thought like her and had her same goals, someone who wanted to spend time with her and scheme and plot against her enemies. Someone who was cruel like her and thought like her and hated the people she hated and she thought she finally had a friend with the same goals as hers. So she listened to Lila, acting worse and worse under her influence but still of her own accord.

She gets worse and worse and under Lila’s manipulations she ends up taking over Paris as mayor (Collusion). Then she Allie’s with Monarch (at Lila’s instruction) to gain powers for herself, making her powerful and able to do whatever she wants without consequence. Her mother also approves of this greatly, smiling and looking proud of Chloe for all she’s doing. Chloe locks up anyone who doesn’t agree with her or just locks other people up to torment those she hates (like locking up Marinette’s parents or banning André the ice cream man cause Adrien and Marinette’s and Nino like his ice cream). She truly doesn’t care for anyone but herself and her own enjoyment and the suffering of others at this point

Once she was finally foiled by Ladybug and Chat Noir for the last time, we’re seen that she’s being taken away by her abusive mother to New York, to be raised “properly” and without freedom.

People see this as not a good way to end her story, and part of me agrees. Having her sent away to live with her abusive mother is not justice or comupence. But here’s the thing: Chloe ultimately put herself here. By continuing to act cold and cruel despite being given multiple chances, she closed, locked, and burned any other options for her. Her father is no longer mayor so she had no protection and is done taking her orders, Sabrina left due to the abuse she suffered and helped Chloe commit (also I don’t completely forgive Sabrina either yet but hopefully she’ll earn trust back in time), Adrien cut off all ties with her after she refused to apologize to Marinette for all the HORRENDOUS things she put her though, Lila abandoned her without a trace, no one is afraid of her anymore, the superheroes of Paris have denounced her, she was exposed for actively working with Monarch to enslave all of Paris, and she’s hated by everyone in Paris: her mother is the only one left.

She burned everything down and refused to change. Unfortunately some people do that, especially in real life (I’ve personally seen it happen with some of my toxic family members). Even if they have the ability to change and become better people, it takes WORK to stay better and be nice, especially in a completely toxic household or with an overbearing toxic parent in your life. Breaking the pattern and cycle of abuse and cruelty is never easy, and for a child with no immediate healthy influences it’s nearly impossible.

Her story is a story of caution in the end: you can change, but in the end it’s your choice. And what goes around comes around. Chloe spent almost her entire life being cruel to others without consequence. She had multiple chances to change, even showed she was capable of it, but in the end chose the easier road for herself, and by doing so, sealed her fate and her punishment

Maybe she’ll come back in the future changed by living with her mother, that’s all we can hope for at this point.

I’m also going to making a post comparing and contrasting her and Felix as characters and why their stories played out so differently despite them being very similar character types.

#mlb season 5 spoilers #chloe bourgeois #mlb fandom #mlb #mlb revolution #mlb season 5 #mlb chloe #character analysis #character breakdown

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princess-of-the-corner · 6 months

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I remember a poll from just before Representation aired that showed 12% of the fandom didn't believe the sentikid theory. I'm curious if that still holds true. Because at this point anyone still in denial would need the characters flat out saying the words Adrien, Felix and Kagami are sentimonsters in order to believe it. And I do hate that they haven't outright said it, because your right the writers are probably hedging their bets in case of a retcon.

I think the funniest part is that they've already left the door open for a retcon with the whole 'they let Gabriel win and everything got destroyed and recreated and is totally perfect now' because at that point they could shift anything and say it was because of that. Adrien's not a Sentimonster anymore? Part of Gabriel's changes was making him a Real Boy™!

But yeah it's. It's probably in case they want to change it

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western-magical-girl-confessions · 1 year

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“It would make sense for the Sentimonster! Chloe thing to be created by fans because the fanbase usually has sympathy for the blond as far as writing choices go anyways. However, if that theory turns out to be canon and Thomas has any part in the idea, then his intentions will be instantly contradicted and that would make him look like a HUGE hypocritical fool who doesn't know what he's doing with his show anymore imo. Want to know WHY I say this? Because I feel like that it doesn’t make sense for him to try to push the idea that Chloe is inherently evil every chance that he gets, but then turn around and make her a sentimonster.

The whole show always tries to make us sympathize with the fact that sentimonsters have feelings too, that they have no real control over their actions, and not to mention that HE HIMSELF dislikes Chloe with a burning passion too! So making Chloe a sentimonster will just bury him in a deeper grave than he already is in lol It doesn’t make sense for him and fans to defend Adrien and Felix’s bad actions just because they’re sentimonsters, but then don’t do the same for Chloe. Zoe being a sentimonster makes more sense than Chloe!”

#ml sentimonster #sentimonster chloe #sentimonster zoe #sentimonster theory #ml #mlb #miraculous #thomas salt #thomas astruc salt #thomas astruc #miraculous fandom #miraculous ladybug #miraculous tales of ladybug and chat noir #miraculous ladybug confessions #western magical girl confessions #confession 2340 #chloe bourgeois

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thecollectivefixation · 7 months

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MIRACULOUS LADY IS CRAZY...good!

What's up guys...😈This is MY first post on this account, and although I may not be as detailed as Bookworm who posted the MK1 post, I am here to rant and share how I feel about my current fixations. WOO!

Today I am writing about Miraculous ladybug (guys...don't judge me help...) AND HOW CRAZY SEASON 5 HAS BEEN HELLO???!! I did NOT. and I mean NOT expect season 5 to be as bombastic, as dastardly, as ridiculously crazy as this. AND this is why I am writing about it today, also because I feel like It's time for someone other than Bookworm to post as well, wouldn't want Worm over there to feel lonely! Heh...heh...heh

ALRIGHT, so let's start off with how the theory about ADRIEN being a senti-monster is POPPING OFF ALL OVER the Miraculous ladybug fandom (yes I am a little bit late I apologise), and this is because of season 5 episode 24, Representation, and other hints in the season.

In this episode we first start off with Adrien, who is looking very sad and lonely... 😱In London, since his father forced him to go to London for his future studies. Lately, Adrien has started to disobey his father, AND THAT IS A GOOD THING! However, the fact is, whenever he tries to do something he really wants to and his father doesn't want him pursuing it, he tries to stand up to him but it's strange because Gabriele decides EVERYTHING for him. From, his career, his friends, his school, everything. And Adrien can't disobey him when Gabriele 'commands' him to do something. But despite this, Adrien has grown so much over the past couple seasons and he has tried to hard to have a life of his own without anyone controlling him.

(From season 5 episode 24)

Now, we obviously understand now that Felix, Adrien's weirdly identical cousin is a sentimonster, or a senti-human if that makes sense. I DONT know much about what's going with senti-monsters and stuff it's too confusing bye. ANYWAY so In this episode Kagami and Adrien do a little play for Marinette, who is heart-broken that Adrien had to leave for London. AND BTW, I hate how Felix took advantage of her by pretending to be Adrien like let the girl rest for a second. So they do the play and BOOM a huge secret has been revealed to the whole community and we learn that Felix is a senti-monster human little baby and Adrien is...well, I don't really know.

(From season 5 episode 24)

In this scene, the play states how Felix's father wanted his wife, who is Emilie's sister (ok Ik this is confusing AND IDK IF IM SPELLING THE NAMES RIGHT but u guys know who is who.) to have a child as well. Not just Emilie, who at the time, was pregnant with Adrien, after wishing for a child for so long with Gabriele. Felix's father confronts Gabriele in jealously and anger. However, Emilie felt bad for her sister and wanted Gabriele to do something, to bring a miracle to her sister and her sister's husband just as she was gifted with a miracle. Gabriele confronts Felix's father and says, 'After much studying, I have discovered a solution for you and your wife.' And he offers the peacock miraculous to Felix's father, who hesitated but accepted it in the end. And that is how Felix was born. So, it's safe to say that Adrien could have also been a gift from the peacock miraculous, yet it's hard to make sense from all this and everything is confusing but the answer is right in-front of us. It is also evident that Kagami is a senti-monster/senti-human, since Felix states how they are the same, just like how Adrien and he are the same.

Also, the peacock background behind Emilie when she was pregnant with Adrien carries symbolism, this scene enforces the theory that perhaps she used the Peacock miraculous to finally have a child, and that child would be Adrien Agreste.

No wonder they all suffer from horrible parents, because their lives were never their own, even from the beginning.

ALSO THE STUFF GOING ON WITH LYLA/CERISE IS CRAZY GUYS. First of all, she isn't just a liar, BUT HER HAIR IS A LIE TOO? HELP? THE HAIR REVEAL WAS A SHOCK. But I won't lie she kinda slays the short hair look, IM NOT ON HER SIDE GUYS IM JUST SAYING.

(From season 5 episode 21)

But yeah, Miraculous ladybug has been super crazy and all over the place lately, I haven't even finished this season yet! But I am looking forward to seeing Lyla as the new villain, (or is she)? Who knows, guess I'll just have to finish watching. A little worried about Adrien but I have faith that he will be alright...heh...heh...Adrien....Heh...WHAT WHO SAID THAT!

Signing out, (I ALWAYS WANTED TO WRITE THAT MUAHAHAHHA)

Queen.

#miraculous ladybug #miraculoustalesofladybugandcatnoir #adrien agreste #marinette dupain cheng #miraculous lb #miraculous movie #gabriele agreste #emilie agreste #hyper fixation #current fixation #fixation #thecollectivefixation

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theeangeltimes · 6 months

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Some Brief Thoughts on Miraculous: Tales of Ladybug & Cat Noir S5 // SPOILERS!!! 🐞

This past week I finally got caught up with the entirety of Miraculous Ladybug after hearing about how the show FINALLY gave us some interesting stuff after the mediocrity that was season 3. Two years late, yes, but it’s because season 3 really had me believing that perhaps I was too old to enjoy the show now. However, season 4 + 5’s highlights showed me that there is still a lot to enjoy from this series.

Not that this context is necessarily needed, (I just kinda wanna gloat hehehe) but I’ve been a fan since the show’s first season was still airing. Like, back when you could only watch the latest episodes in English if you watched it subbed and when all the non-French fans still called Cat Noir Chat Noir and when the idea of Gabriel Agreste being Hawk Moth was still just a mere fan theory. So I have quite a bit of emotional investment in this story and have been anticipating its reveals and everything else it has to offer for the good part of a decade.

And so I’ll say this:

• the show should have ended here at the end of the Hawk Moth arc rather than dragging out the butterfly miraculous being missing and seemingly appointing Lila as the next main baddie

• Adrien should have found out that Gabriel was Hawk Moth and Gabriel should have found out Adrien was Cat Noir before his death

No other villain’s reveal and existence will be able to have the same shock value or emotional payoff that Hawk Moth had, especially not Lila’s of all people. How is anything she’s going to do or any secret of hers going to live up to a missing wife being kept in some creepy capsule in a secret basement, unknowingly being the father of your enemy, and your child being a sentimonster of your creation??? (Which don’t even get me started on how much I HATE the fact that they made Adrien, Felix, and Kagami sentimonsters…) Plus, five seasons containing 26 episodes each on top of multiple movies/specials is a good run, I’d say. They should have just let the show end with only 5 seasons. It has run its course!

And speaking of how long this show is, it being confirmed that everything that we have seen happen has taken course over roughly 9-10 months is INSANITY.

Perhaps I just need to sit tight and see if the showrunners will have me eating my words in the next season(s), I really hope they do. (Although, I am not looking forward to the whole Avengers-esque superhero squad bs. I don’t like drastic change and I definitely don’t like those kids {except for Luka, Kagami, and Felix 🫶}.) I mean, there’s still so many big questions we still need answers to in regards to the Agrestes and Tsurugis plus there is technically still time for Adrien to find out about his dad, even if Marinette promised to not let him know. AND—most importantly—we still have time for Ladynoir revealing their identities to each other!

#miraculous #miraculous ladybug #cat noir #adrien agreste #marinette dupain cheng #gabriel agreste

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thetardisisnotourdivision · 1 year

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Theory: Nathalie Sancoeur

I've seen a couple of posts about how Nathalie is only just starting to defend Adrien against his father, so I thought now might be a good time to post about my theory regarding Nathalie's backstory.

My theory is that Nathalie was raised in a kinda abusive environment. I think she was possibly trained for a life of finding and potentially guarding the Miraculous, perhaps as some sort of response to the destruction of the Temple of Guardians, which would give her extra motivation to help Gabriel get the Miraculous - she'd be doing what she was trained to do. She never mentions her family, and in Passion she says she has nothing left to lose, implying that her family perhaps aren't in the picture anyway - in addition to this she never goes home, living with the Agrestes, even though she is severely ill. In terms of her training, she is a skilled fighter both as Mayura and Nathalie (Felix), is extremely intelligent and observant, and we know she was an Indiana Jones-style treasure hunter. She is also very stealthy, and is good at hiding herself and taking advantage of distractions to stay undercover - she has previously evaded professional guards and stolen Master Fu's tablet with the deciphered spellbook pages. She is ruthless and merciless, implying that she was trained meticulously with one goal, with no feelings to spare for any casualties - in this case emotions may have been seen as "weak".

This is where we start to allude to an abusive upbringing. Nathalie allows herself to be used by Gabriel to the point of terminal illness, and still forces herself to keep working even when ill, suggesting that she feels obliged somehow to help him, and has learned to put her own needs last. Her general personality would also indicate that she is a survivor of abuse. She is generally serious, cold, closed off and seemingly emotionless, which is a survival instinct that comes from being threatened (in my experience, it comes from living in an environment where anything you do could be used against you - it might be a similar story here). She has clearly learned to suppress her emotions, to give nothing away - possibly as part of her training, or just for survival. She doesn't pick up on Gabriel's abuse towards Adrien until she realises that Gabriel is in general a dick in Evolution. The way that she reacts towards Gabriel would perhaps suggest that he and Emilie were the first people to really treat her with kindness, explaining why she clung to the idea of helping Gabriel for so long and why she is so fiercely loyal towards him and Emilie. She regularly blames herself for things that aren't her fault, and has said she has "failed" somebody on more than one occasion - this both implies emotional abuse and an overly-formal way of speaking suggesting she was raised around adults - and is very afraid of disappointing people. She is also prone to emotional manipulation - both Lila (which isn't saying much but it still counts) and Gabriel have used this to their advantage before. Notably she herself is also a skilled manipulator and very good at messing with people's heads, such as in the episode Ladybug where she manipulates Cat Noir into thinking the sentimonster is actually Ladybug, and as a result almost manages to take his Miraculous.

Then we come to her relationship with Adrien. Nathalie is fiercely protective of Adrien and, interestingly, we never see her face him as Cat Noir any time his identity is revealed - in Chat Blanc, when she tells Gabriel what she's seen, she seems more horrified than angry, as though she's realised she was hurting Adrien the whole time. In series five, when she starts actively defending him against Gabriel, it feels more to me like she didn't really recognise the abuse before (possibly because it was similar to the way she was brought up) and is now starting to realise what's really happening, than anything else.

So, my full theory of Nathalie's backstory, given the evidence:

The story would start similarly to Master Fu's - at a very young age, potentially as a baby, she was chosen because of certain attributes or qualities she had, and taken away from her family to be raised and trained by some sort of organisation. This organisation was probably something to do with finding the Miraculous. Nathalie was raised as a soldier or a hunter, (think Partizans from The Rosewood Chronicles or the Widows in Black Widow - her behaviour is very similar to Jamie Volk's), and in her late teens she met Gabriel, who was also looking for the Miraculous for some reason or other. Perhaps she was sent out to start searching and ended up travelling with Gabriel and Emilie. Whatever happened, they were kind to her, so she became very loyal to them, never realising that their kindness didn't mean she owed them, or that the reason she felt obliged to them was because of how she was raised. So she stays with them - assists them with Adrien (because we pretty much know he's a sentimonster now, and she would have known enough about the Miraculous to be able to show Emilie how to use the peacock Miraculous) and then, after Emilie's disappearance, felt a strong enough connection to the Agrestes - stronger than any connection she'd ever really had before - that she felt obliged to keep helping Gabriel, even when his actions were straight up evil, because it was all she'd ever known.

It's not a very organised theory and I'm sure someone somewhere could put it far better than I have but what do you think? Add anything I've missed and feel free to ask questions.

A final thing I find interesting - considering the idea that Nathalie doesn't know her family… on Miraculous Wiki she is described as having "bluebell eyes". For such a serious character it seems a strangely whimsical description… unless you consider the other character described as having "bluebell eyes". I know it sounds ridiculous but I saw a post recently mentioning how all of the Asian characters in the show seem to have blue hair (which is kind of odd and I feel like there's a rabbit hole I could go down here but I'm not going to), and how Nathalie shares a lot of traits with Marinette. The post wasn't about this specifically but I think it's entirely possible that Nathalie and Marinette are linked somehow, plus Nathalie being part-Asian would support the theory.

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miraculouslbcnreactions · 5 months

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Today's episode was Representation, the one with the weird art student play put on by Kagami and Felix. On a rewatch, I think I may have realized why the writers did that. It's a crazy theory, but I can't stop thinking about it.

SO's thoughts first: he was extremely disappointed that Felix used a sentimonster when he could have just talked to Marinette. Wasn't Felix's whole thing freeing sentimonsters? Why does he keep using them for the lamest reasons?

My thoughts: I once again noticed that Felix never says that Adrien is a sentimonster. He just says that Emilie got pregnant - with peacock feathers in the background as a hint - and that Emilie asked Gabriel to help Amelie have a baby, too. Then the peacock gets explicitly brought up, which is odd. Why don't the writers just commit to sentiAdrien and be done with it? I was also confused why they made such a big deal of the family rings when they don't seem to have any special powers in and of themselves.

As I once again considered these issues, I had a thought: does Marinette actually know that Adrien is a sentimonster?

I know that sounds crazy, but think about what she actually knows vs what we know: until Felix explicitly mentions the peacock, Marinette would have no reason to think that sentimonsters were involved, meaning that she could easily have missed the quick hint. Especially since most of Adrien's commands were things that were only shown to the audience. She was only there for one of them, "Adrien go to your room," and she had no reason to think that was odd behavior.

Even if she did know that he was a senti, how would she know what his amok was? Felix never tells her. He only says that the rings were precious family heirlooms + the Agreste's wedding rings. And Marinette knew nothing about Emilie's illness. She was never told that it was the same illness that Nathalie has. Marinette didn't even know that Emilie was in the basement until that final fight.

All of these things were obvious to the audience, so we just assumed that she knew, but maybe she doesn't? Because watching that play, one could reasonably assume that Adrien was a real child and Felix was a look-a-like senti made because Amelie wanted a baby, too. This is why I thought up the theory, actually, because I had the thought that they'd written it that way in case they wanted to backtrack, which made no sense. But writing it that way to confuse Marinette? That would actually be somewhat logical.

I could be totally wrong, but maybe we're all blaming her for something she doesn't actually know. At the very least, the setup for her not knowing is there. Has it actually been confirmed that she knows?

#ml writing salt #ml writing critical #ml season 5 salt #ml representation #we watched the mayor chloe episodes too but had nothing to say #They're boring chloe bashing and we're both tired of it #suffering through a rewatch of season 5 for love of my so

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flightfoot · 1 year

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I don't understand people who only know a character for a few episode/chapter and then decided that "this is it. This is a horrible character and I'm going to tell the world about how horrible they're" that they ignore every nuance, background and motive of that character. Even worse people who only echoing people bad take and decided that is the canon and spread it like fire.

I was a "victim" of this kind of people because my friend is an Adrien salter. That time I don't even know Chat Noir, I only see some fanarts and think his design is cool especially because I always love cat boy or cat in general. My friend saw me liking and share Chat Noir pictures and told me that "he may be cute but he's a horrible and problematic character" which made me raised an eyebrow and she explain more about how he is so "creepy" that he lied to someone who has a girl that he has crush on, saying they're a couple and when the other male get upset he blame the girl for it instead. She also told he that he's a sexual harrasser and tried to force to kiss his crush even though the girl already reject him and the reason people don't mind his problematic action is because he's "cute". Well, that just some among other things that she told me about him and none of it was really positive.

She said she hate the show and already dropped it but sometimes whenever I liked miraculous stuff, she'd tell me some other "horrible thing Chat Noir do" under the post that I share.

I wasn't the type who would back down from watching something just because my friend told me it's horrible but it does make me wonder if the show and this character is as horrible as she made it to be, because this is not the first time she hate on a character that I have interest in.

I'm glad I decided to watch it when it finally aired on TV because what she told me before was a complete BS. Adrien isn't like what she always told me to be and the more I watched miraculous the more I loved him and he's one of my cat boy.

The fact that the Chat Noir that she told me and the actual Chat Noir is like 360° difference just make me wondered, what's her problem? I mean, it's one thing to hate on a character or a show but to spread such misinformation because she hate that character is a horrible act! If you don't like the media or a character then keep it to yourself?? No need to drag others into a black hole full of misinformation!

I myself stopped watching halfway in s4 because I don't like the whole sentimonster theory, Ladybug attitude there and how the show sometimes not acknowledging Chat Noir awesomeness (that giant gallette especially) but I don't make it a habit to tell people the show is horrible just because it's no longer my cup of tea. So people like this make my brain goes brrrr.

Yeah people have an issue of latching onto one or two things they don't like about a character, and then ignoring every bit of nuance and motivation that characters has in favor of blindly hating them. You can still dislike a character, but it should at least be done fairly.

And I know the ML saltdom tends to not just emphasize negative aspects, but flat-out spread incorrect information when bashing on characters - the anon I got awhile ago claiming that Chat threatened Ladybug that he'd give up the ring in Syren unless she dated him comes to mind. People get caught in these echo chambers and don't actually think to check the show itself, nor to look at the actual reasons the characters has for doing what they did, from both a Watsonian perspective and a Doylist one.

#ask #ml fandom salt #leave adrien alone challenge

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ilikekidsshows · 1 year

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The thing I don't like from the senti theory that been going around lately in the fandom is that some people like to simplified and reduce Adrien's reaction and act simply because Gabriel create him that way. Adrien having trouble to express his anger? Oh it's because he's created that way. Adrien is a people pleaser? Yeah that's because Gabriel create him that way. Adrien can't talk back to his father? Gabriel made him can't do it by twisting his ring! Gabriel commanded Adrien and he comply? That's because Gabriel has his amok! They agree that Adrien is abused but most of them also agree that Adrien's inability to fight back Gabriel command is solely because of the amok not a trauma respond or at least mostly the former.

I'm a firm believer that senti Adrien is a big bullshit because if Gabriel has that power to control Adrien 24/7 then he would do it without hesitation, he won't need to wait until Adrien show a sign of rebelling to use it. He would do it every fucking single time! This is Gabriel, the same person who mock Ladybug and Cat Noir for getting sentimental over a sentimonster after all.

If I have a power that could control my son-puppet emotion, feeling and action, I wouldn't bother to manipulate-gaslight him. It's a waste of time and energy. He doesn't like the pancake I made? Twist the amok and he would eat it without protest. No effort needed. Unless this is the whole Even Evil Has Standard but I doubt it is.

This is another case of the Senti Stans being completely unaware of the implications of the things they’re saying. Like, they do not mean to imply the things they imply, you’ll see this in how genuinely angry and defensive they get every time someone points out said implications. This doesn’t change the fact that almost every single time a new defense of SentiAdrien shows up, it does indeed imply some stuff that really grinds people’s gears.

Because, here’s the thing; chalking up Adrien’s trauma responses as being a result of him being a Sentimonster is literally saying that he acts the way he does because he is not human. This idea that his Sentimonster programming informs his behavior is the same thing as saying that these actions make more sense if he’s not human. Said actions being trauma responses creates the implication that people who act like they’ve been traumatized act in unreasonable, weird or inhuman ways. It’s literally othering trauma victims as something other than a “normal” human.

This is why people who are against the SentiAdrien concept say that the concept makes light of Adrien’s story being an abuse story. The Stans can claim until they’re blue in the face that they still view Adrien’s abuse as abuse, but everything else they say creates implications that ring as the opposite, especially when they say that him being a Sentimonster would “explain” his or Gabriel’s behavior, when nothing about their situation is different from a real life abusive relationship.

If something already happens in the real world, unless the fictional universe is changing its mechanics, it requires no fantastical explanation. In the world of Equestria, seasons don't pass naturally, so the ponies need to pull off a Winter Wrap-up to change winter to spring. The only reason Gabriel's abuse and Adrien's responses to it would need to be explained is if neither existed naturally in the world of Miraculous. And, since Miraculous seems to be functioning similarly to our world when it comes to family stuff, that would be like the show was denying the actual existence of abusive families, especially if all the rich/abused kids are Sentimonsters, which is the popular current take on the concept.

In a fandom where people still vilify Adrien for his trauma responses, let’s not give the hatedom even more reasons to demonize him by saying him being a Sentimonster explains jack shit. It just gives people who don’t sympathize or empathize with trauma victims a free pass.

Here’s the thing about Gabriel’s characterization in a SentiAdrien situation: it doesn’t work no matter how you spin it. No matter what he’ll come out of it with inconsistent characterization and his behavior not making sense.

Option one is that Gabriel doesn’t care about Adrien and doesn’t care about Sentimonsters. That means that he would be using the Amok constantly to get out of dealing with Adrien wanting different things than he does, but he doesn’t do that so it’s inconsistent.

Option two is that Gabriel loves Adrien and therefore doesn’t want to control him. Then why is he okay with other people keeping hold of his son’s essence when he couldn’t trust them to begin with (Félix) or is learning he can’t trust them anymore (Nathalie)? It still doesn't make sense.

Either way we spin Gabriel’s relationship to his remote-control robot son, it just doesn’t work. Even if we go back by about a year back to the third option of Gabriel not knowing Adrien is a Sentimonster, that would just make all the Sentimonster “foreshadowing” nonsense.

#ml fandom salt #sentitheory salt #adrien is not a sentimonster #I'm transferring over to the sentitheory salt tag because this theory has gotten so broad at this point

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