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heloflor · 2 months

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Kind of a continuation of this post since I mention Cowgirl Peach having an expression that could fit Movie Peach, but also I didn’t want to bring some drama from a year ago into said post.

Basically I’m working on turning some of my posts into videos and my Peach comparison one is a prime contender for it once Showtime comes out, with a script already done (only missing the Showtime parts for obvious reasons). And working on that script made me think I’d probably make an updated version of the comparison post bc there are a few things I felt weren’t expressed well-enough, on top of forgetting a few things.

I also deleted the table post bc I wasn’t satisfied with the table and it was put at the end of the comparison post anyways so it’s still on my blog in some way (the language in the table was a bit too salty + I pointed out things like backstory to highlight how different the two are but at the same time Movie Peach having a different backstory doesn’t bother me in the slightest as this is a different continuity from the games).

So here I wanted to take a second to talk more about the body language situation and the whole “Peach can fight” thing, as I feel like my comparison post didn’t express my issues with those properly (2.9k words below).

For the body language, it actually took me a while to realize the issue, hence why in my comparison post I barely give examples and in my scenes rewrite I admit in the tags it’s more subjective than I thought. Thing is, I had this issue backwards, and it’s Mario Wonder that made me realize it due to Nintendo doubling down on how dainty Peach is in that game, along with the Showtime transformation trailer.

Thing is, it’s not that Movie Peach and Games Peach have two completely different body languages. In reality, Movie Peach’s body language can fit Games Peach on occasion (sports games, Showtime, Adventures Comic) but a lot of Games Peach’s body language doesn’t fit Movie Peach at all due to how dainty, soft, regal and elegant Games Peach usually is, which are traits Movie Peach is almost entirely missing (I say “almost entirely” due to her reactions during the DK fight).

This is why instances like Cowgirl Peach or her feisty attitude in the Adventures Comic are fitting for Games Peach (plus in the comic she still displays her daintiness a few times during the chapters where she’s wearing Luigi’s clothes), meaning I could see Movie Peach’s body language fit her when she’s in action. But at the same time, I am completely unable to imagine Movie Peach float around with a parasol, or being carried bridal style, or doing the same cheering animations as Games Peach in the sports games, or being a baker or a figure skater or a mermaid, or literally anything about Mario Wonder, because that’s just not the kind of person that she is. So it’s not that their body language is fully separated, it’s that one fits the other but not vice-versa.

It’s also worth noting that the vast majority of Movie Peach’s body language only fits Games Peach in very specific situations (again sports games, Showtime and Adventures Comic), the same way the vast majority of Games Peach’s body language only fits Movie Peach on like two small occasions (DK fight and fireflowers field).

This also speaks to the fact that Peach is a fleshed-out character who have done many various sports and other activities on top of her many adventures throughout the years, hence having a “wider range” on that front. Movie Peach meanwhile is more of a one-note character whose whole thing is protecting her Toads and being curious about her past.

It’s also the same deal with their voices. Showtime has Games Peach use a lower-pitched voice, but it’s literally the only game she ever used such a register (outside of maybe some obscure game I don’t know about, or the 90s cartoons which I didn’t watch so I don’t even know how in-character she is in those). So while Games Peach is capable of sounding like Movie Peach, she only does so on very specific occasions. And on the other side of the coin Movie Peach never sounds like Games Peach (I say never having watched the movie in english 😓). There might also be something to say about Games Peach only sounding like Movie Peach when she’s acting, with that same game seemingly giving her her usual higher pitch when she isn’t in costume.

Now admittedly I could still point out instances where Movie Peach’s body language bothers me from an adaptation standpoint, but at the same time I do feel like you could look up the sports games or even the Adventures Comic and find an example of Games Peach doing a similar thing.

I also realized that when thinking of the body language that bothers me, I sometimes actually mean the facial expressions more than anything else. Like Movie Peach declaring war with her fists in the air? I could see Peach do it to an extent. But that weird face she makes when the Toad interrupts her? Yeah no, it doesn’t fit. Same when she badly lies to Mario, or when she prepares to fight the first Kong they meet, or telling Mario that Bowser would eat him, or other small moments like those.

But I think the reason why it bothers me is actually bc her facial structure is different, given all the examples I just gave are of Movie Peach having an exaggerated expression. Meanwhile it doesn’t bother me when Adventures Comic Peach has exaggerated expressions, and Adventures Peach has a facial structure that's closer to the games. Plus, I remember when I first saw the movie being weirded out by the way her eyes look at times, so yeah, it might be due to her facial structure rather than the expressions themselves (hell when thinking about Adventures Peach looking like Games Peach, the first thing I think about are the way her eyes are drawn).

All this to say, there are legitimate complains about the body language but it’s less of a difference and more of a limitation on Movie Peach’s end.

As for the fighting, first of all yes all the abilities Movie Peach has are things Peach can do as well. I don’t know if I explicitly said it in the comparison post, but yes, they have the same abilities. My post also mentioned the fighting situation being my biggest issue with Movie Peach, and that still stands, but again I think I expressed it pretty poorly.

First off, while Peach and Movie Peach have the same abilities, their relationship with fighting are different. This is what I mainly focused on in my post.

Movie Peach sees fighting as the one and only solution to her problems and has no hesitation starting or joining fights. Even when given the opportunity to solve the situation in a possibly calmer way with the wedding, she still decides to turn it into a fight. She’s also on the offensive, being at the front lines and doing the fighting herself.

As for Games Peach, while the mainline games and Showtime are proof that she’s capable of fighting without hesitation, the RPGs also show that she’s more than willing to take the peaceful option if there is one. That one cutscene in Smash Bros Brawl is an especially good example of that. She also doesn’t mind sending others to do the fighting for her (Mario and Luigi series, the first Rabbids game where she initially asks Mario to deal with Junior before joining in later). And she’s on the defensive in the RPGs, being the healer/support of the team rather than a hard-hitter.

Another difference between the two is the attacks they use. While, again, both have the same abilities, Movie Peach is a physical fighter exclusively, and even the ice flower scene focuses on her physical abilities which she pairs up with the power-up. Games Peach meanwhile is much more likely to use magic or unconventional weapons (parasol, frying pan, throwing furniture, Stella’s ribbon, turnips etc), though power-ups are obviously also on the list. But also compare the way she uses the fire flower in Wonder to Movie Peach using the ice flower.

In fact, the only times Games Peach does some physical fighting are in Showtime, Smash and some sports games (unless you count jumping on enemies as physical fighting I guess). Also in Rabbids she uses a literal gun but the second game still gave her a parasol-shaped one, thus keeping in line with her usual unconventional weapons.

All-in-all, yes, Peach and Movie Peach have the same physical abilities, and if I did my job properly I didn’t deny this in my comparison post. But the main difference between the two is how they approach fighting, both in their relationship with it (how willing they are to fight) and the weapons they use. Because of that, even if the characters are capable of the same feats, their fighting styles nonetheless make them feel like two completely different characters.

Btw I didn’t mention the platforming and karting abilities being similar bc it doesn’t bring anything new to the table. The thing with the fighting abilities is that it’s tied to personality to an extent (Movie being more aggressive while Games is more defensive), which isn’t the case with the platforming and karting.

But there is a second issue, a much bigger one. In my comparison post, I mention at the end of the intelligence section how they traded off one of Peach’s strengths for another. But it’s actually much more than just one trait.

Thing is, Illumination was so desperate to make Movie Peach as cool and badass as possible that it came at the expanse of every other personality trait Games Peach has. The short runtime and lack of character development doesn’t help either.

And THAT is the biggest issue with Movie Peach and her willingness to fight, and why she fails as an adaptation while games like the Rabbids ones, the platformers and Showtime are able to make Peach an action-heroine while still keeping her perfectly in character.

Every single personality difference between the two can be explained by either that desire to make her badass, or a lack of runtime (bc yes I do think some of those issues aren’t directly related to the fighting stuff but instead lack of character development).

Seriously:

- Why is Movie Peach so willing to fight? Because she’s a badass and badass people fight.

- Why does Movie Peach fight with her fists rather than magic? Because frilly pink parasols and heart-shaped magic are for silly little girls and she’s a strong woman!

- Why isn’t Movie Peach smart to a noticeable extent or quick-witted? Because she’s badass, why thinking when she can already punch her issues away? In the situations she finds herself in, she doesn’t need brain if she already has brawl.

It’s also worth noting that quite a few instances of Games Peach being smart are tied to her inability to defend herself. In Paper Mario 64, she can’t win against Bowser so instead she sneaks around. In the Adventures Comic, she’s far too outnumbered and knows it, so she runs away and takes on-the-fly decisions to save herself. In Superstar Saga, she can’t just refuse a political visit, plot or not, but can’t face Cackletta either, so she devises a plan to remain safe.

But since Movie Peach doesn’t have such weaknesses, she doesn’t find herself in situations that need quick thinking. And when she kind of does, her plan is crazy dumb yet perfectly in character given how impulsive and fight-oriented she is (Toad sneaking the ice flower to begin with is ridiculous; she planned on taking a whole army by herself; she came back on her promise to Bowser thus giving him every right to hurt her people; she actually loses her power-up and the cages only gets saved thanks to Mario and DK showing up, who Movie Peach had no idea were coming; given her reaction she didn’t know about the cages meaning she intended on using the ice flower regardless instead of accepting the wedding and sneaking off when Bowser’s guard is down).

- Why is Movie Peach sassy in a snarky way rather than a playful way likes Games Peach? Because she’s a badass and that’s how badass characters act.

- Why isn’t Movie Peach particularly stubborn? Because she’s badass meaning nobody questions her ideas, and the two times she has to argue (Cranky and Bowser) it’s reasonable for her to do so.

- Why is Movie Peach serious in a “shit is about to go down” kind of way rather than a “I hope other people will be alright while I deal with this” kind of way like Games Peach? Because she’s badass and badass people focus on the fight ahead.

- Why is Movie Peach confident to the point of smiling when fighting unlike Games Peach who looks more serious during fights (in the Showtime renders that have her smirk, she isn’t currently fighting, outside of the Cowgirl one ironically enough; plus she has a serious face in the Kung Fu kick from the gameplay and both her Ninja and Mighty attacking render; pretty sure it’s a similar deal in the Rabbids games and Super Mario RPG)? Because that’s how badass characters look when they fight.

- How come a lot of Games Peach’s body language doesn’t fit Movie Peach? Because Movie Peach is a badass and badass characters shouldn’t be soft and dainty. This also circles back to the Showtime box art change and how much I hate it.

- Why isn’t Movie Peach kind to the same ridiculous extent that Games Peach is? Because we don’t have enough time in the movie for it. Oh and she’s a badass so she has to be snarky, even if it makes her less kind.

- Why doesn’t Movie Peach have that temper Games Peach has at times? Because they didn’t have time for it.

- Why is Movie Peach not a good diplomat? Ok tbh I have no idea for this one. Why did they make her suck at this, and why out of all the weaknesses they could have given her they decided to go with the one thing related to her status as a Princess???

Btw in my comparison post I said the issue wasn’t the “strong female character” stereotype in on itself and I still stand by that. It might make no sense but basically the issue isn’t with the character archetype, it’s the way Illumination did everything to make Peach fit a specific archetype that she isn’t, to the point of losing her core character in the process. It could have been another archetype than the strong female character one and the results would have been the same.

Finally, a small word about the few differences I forgot to mention in my comparison post:

1. Games Peach is an emotional person that can cry fairly easily, while Movie Peach isn’t. Actually surprised I forgot that one when it’s literally present in that one concept art sheet that I brought up numerous times.

2. Movie Peach is only curious about the human world and instead of it being genuine curiosity for another culture, it feels like she mostly wants to know where she comes from, learning more about her past as a form of closure. Games Peach on the other hand is very curious about trying new things, discovering new places and meeting new people, like her travels in Odyssey’s post-game, her going to the theater in Showtime, many of the RPGs, or her reaction to the hotel when you talk to her at the beginning of Luigi’s Mansion 3.

3. Movie Peach doesn’t have any hobbies, while Games Peach has an artistic side. She bakes and decorates her cakes, paints in that one series of pics showing game development, plus I believe her castle in 64 is an art gallery, and according to Showtime she has an interest for theater and is even a good actor.

And in regards to the list I made above, I would say the lack of curiosity and hobbies are due to the Movie not having the time for it, while her not being emotional is that desire to make her badass.

I also realized that they do have some traits in common, which are being brave, determined and adventurous. But the thing is, so is Mario, and Luigi after a pep talk, and Daisy, and the Toads, and Bowser, and Movie Mario, and Movie Luigi since he does follow his brother in his crazy ideas, and even Movie Bowser to an extent.

So while being brave and adventurous are very much traits that define their characters, the fact all the characters have it undermines its use when comparing the two. In other words, saying “Games Peach and Movie Peach are the same because they’re brave” is the same as saying “Peach, Mario and Bowser are all the same because they’re brave”. They need to have more traits in common than that, which they don’t, and that’s a problem.

I could even be an ass and point out that being adventurous is a pretty important trait for Games Peach in the RPGs, going hand-in-hand with her stubbornness. Meanwhile the movie really doesn’t focus much on that part of her. Basically, Games Peach in the RPGs goes on adventures because she wants to, while Movie Peach goes on an adventure because she has to.

Hell you could say the same thing about the bravery, with some RPGs like Paper Mario 64 or Super Paper Mario having character point out how brave Peach is being for a princess that often needs help herself, while the movie focuses more on Peach being physically capable rather than brave when complimenting her.

(Oh and a bit unrelated but I’d argue Movie Kamek is also incredibly OOC when compared to Games Kamek, as Games Kamek is a snarky little shit who knows he’s smarter than everyone else on top of having this tired dad energy who doesn’t get paid enough for this shit, both of which Movie Kamek lacks in favor of making him a yes-man that’s low-key in love with a Bowser that as a result I’m hoping isn’t his surrogate son; but one could argue that it’s due to how little screentime Movie Kamek had to really showcase his character, especially since he does show some snark in the scene where he tells the prisoners about their upcoming fate. And no, I don’t intend on making a long-ass post about this. I really like Kamek’s character but I don’t care enough to dissect his personality like I did for Peach)

#Super Mario #Flor talks #long post #not tagging anything else bc I don't want to bother people with old drama #(even though it will very likely show up in some tags due to the search system being broken)#this post is 100% me realizing new things and wanting to share it #plus if anybody else makes a video on the topic before mine it gives me proof that I'm not stealing ideas from anyone #since I'm going to mention my posts in the video #I also made a new table :3 ; but I'm keeping it to myself for now #(also I love how I make it sound as if I made a dozen posts bashing mo//vie Peach as an adaptation #when in reality I made like five; one of which I deleted #then again I started talking about it since the first trailers so it's been a while since I've had it in mind #and for some reason I feel very passionate about the topic; which could explain the language used)

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