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fandom-discussions-with-avery · 7 months

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Huntl0w isn't good and that's why

A general compilation of all the problems that do not allow me to treat Huntl0w at least neutrally:

1. Distortion of characters. Do you remember Hunter from the beginning of season 2? And that's it, he is no longer with you. Now he is not a soldier who has been training all his life, he is a cute awkward blushing boy who can't do anything without his boss girlfriend. And do you remember Willow, a kind soul who uses her powers only against enemies? Forget, she'll drive a new acquaintance into the ground and won't let him go. They are trying to forcibly fit them into the girlboss x malewife dynamic, and for this they have to change their characters.

2. Lack of chemistry. The same problem as Lumity: all romantic interactions are embarrassments and red cheeks. But if the girls had a Grom dance and more time together, then Huntl0w has nothing.

3. Willow's attitude. She treats him the same way she treats all her other friends right up to the moment when he saved her with the help of the power of the Flapjack. I'm sure the writers didn't do it on purpose, but it turned out that way - Willow fell in love with Hunter only after he stopped being magically disabled. Or in gratitude for the rescue. One is no better than the other.

4. Hunter's awkwardness. The guy has known her for the fourth year, three of which they are clearly together, but still confused as the first time. He's obviously uncomfortable with her. But who is he comfortable with? With Luz and Gus! It is with Luz that he shares secrets, she understands him like no one else. With Gus, Hunter found the best common language, common interests, and in general they are on the same wavelength. Willow and Hunter don't have either. They were able to prescribe normal interaction with everyone except the love interest, and it's so fucked up.

5. The uselessness for the plot. They don't bring anything, even the very parallel with Caleb and Evelyn is ignored. It feels like they got together just to "pair every character" (except for Gus, of course, Gus is our black best friend, he doesn't deserve our attention).

6. Willow is Hunter's authority figure. There is nothing wrong with the fact that a girl can be a leader in a relationship. But when a guy just starts separating from his uncle, whom he considered an authority all his life, and immediately falls in love with a girl who commands him... This is a very bad parallel. Hunter just changed his boss. TOH is not so deep to develop this topic, and it don’t have enough time, so this is definitely a minus for them.

7. Lack of development. Yes, the series was cut. And now you say that this justifies everything. And I will say that it only makes it worse. Already knowing that the series would be shortened, Dana and co pushed a new love line, which "developed" behind the scenes, did nothing for the plot, but spoiled the characters' characters (as if Amity alone was not enough for us).

8. Hunter is the second Caleb. Yes, Hunter's arc has come to the same place where it began. This applies to a lesser extent to Huntlow, it is rather a sin of the plot itself, but in total with the rest of the problems it becomes no less infuriating.

In conclusion, I can say that this ship is definitely not problematic, it's just bad. No one is forbidden to love them, but they should understend why people may not like Huntl0w.

Maybe I'll write the same thing with Lumity, but I'm not sure.

#toh critical #toh salt #anti huntlow #huntl0w negative #hunter toh #willow park

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they-call-me-haiku · 5 months

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whenever someone says they dislike huntlow, the usual comeback from toxic huntlow fans is that “you're a misogynist and you don't want to see the woman in a relationship being stronger”. so i want to address this issue today. is huntlow bad only because willow is stronger than hunter and isn't a damsel in distress?

in my opinion, absolutely not. that's not the case. i myself am a fan of subverted tropes and relationships where the woman isn't just a passive damsel with no personality. i like seeing independent women and i like seeing men being vulnerable for once.

to demonstrate my point on why huntlow doesn't pull off this trope well, let me compare it to a ship with a similar dynamic: sokka and suki from avatar the last airbender.

let's go through each of the reasons why sukka works as a ship where huntlow fails.

1. Does it make sense for the characters?

the first question here is: do the roles of the strong independent woman and weaker man suit these characters?

sokka was introduced as.. just a guy. he was a regular teenager who wasn't trained in combat. he could fight well enough if he wanted to and being the only man in a village full of mostly children and elders, he was the best warrior in his village (if we are even to believe his claims in s1, that is).

suki, on the other hand, was a trained warrior. she had spent her whole life training in combat and fighting to continue kyoshi's legacy. in her very first appearance, suki is confirmed to be a skilled warrior who is much stronger than sokka.

this setup makes perfect sense. it wouldn't come as a surprise later on that suki is stronger or a better fighter than sokka, and would have to rescue him or help him out in a moment of crisis.

now let's come to huntlow. in s2, hunter is introduced as the emperor's right-hand man who is young but powerful. while most of his intimidation factor came from his artificial staff, it was clear that he was not an amateur and had decent combat skills.

this assumption is only solidified when we see him go head to head with amity, only losing because 1. he was using a new staff 2. he was sleep deprived and 3. he was in an extremely erratic emotional state.

willow, on the other hand, was the sokka in this relationship. she was a regular teenager who grew up in a normal family and went to a regular magic high school.

she was certainly incredibly skilled in plant magic but she was not a trained child soldier like hunter. she had a lot of potential to be a good fighter but she had only recieved the education that every other student had recieved. not to mention, most of her stronger magic came from her emotional outbursts.

so.. does the whole girlboss-malewife dynamic work with huntlow? no. it really doesn't. even if willow trained and grew as a witch, there's no reason why she should be stronger and more skilled in combat than hunter, who had to pass seemingly impossible trials in order to qualify as the golden guard. especially since after the first half of s2, hunter was not only weaker than willow but just weak in general.

i get it, he doesn't have natural magic like the others. but he was still shown to be a very competent fighter. he was also shown to be cunning and strategic, being able to find a way out of any situation if he wanted to. but after joining the hexsquad, he is dumbed down to willow's shy and pathetic boyfriend, who doesn't really do much on his own.

2. are they in character when in a relationship?

when writing a relationship, this is really important. if you write a relationship where one or both characters have to act wildly out of character to make sense for the relationship to happen, those characters are not compatible. it's like when your friend acts uncomfortably different around their crush or partner.

let's start with sokka and suki.

sokka is goofy, cynical and quick-witted, with or without suki. his relationship with suki doesn't drastically change his character, but it does improve it. suki helps sokka change his misogynistic worldviews and respect women, but apart from that necessary improvement, sokka is still the same. he is not out of character when he is with suki.

as for suki herself, we don't see a lot of her away from sokka but it's still safe to assume that she is being herself around sokka. she is not forced into a new role in order to be in a relationship with sokka. the times we do see her on her own, she is pretty much the same rational, independent and nonchalant person that she is around sokka.

and yet, both of them have incredible chemistry and very clearly care for each other. it's not one-sided and it doesn't feel unnatural.

but huntlow?

hunter is introduced as a sarcastic and bratty but deeply traumatized teenager. he is quick to start a banter with whoever he is with, he tends to talk too much, and he generally has a nonchalant attitude to cover up with trauma.

but with willow? hunter is not just shy or awkward around her, he is a completely different person. i can understand that being attracted to a person can make you act strangely sometimes. but with hunter, that awkwardness never fades away. he is always blushing around her, he is often portrayed as pathetic and helpless, and constantly needing willow's support and guidance.

as for willow, she is introduced as this insecure and good-natured teenager. after her confrontation with amity, willow is pushed to the back for a while. all we know about her at that time is that she's the supportive mom friend of the group. she builds her confidence after a while but she is still shown as a kind person who doesn't use force on someone else, unless necessary.

but with hunter? willow is suddenly not just confident but also dominant and forceful. she basically snatches him from the sky and drags him to the ground, just to invite him to her flyer derby team. hunter is practically terrified at this point, but it's played off as a fun cute-meet. later, when hunter wants to leave the team for understandable reasons, instead of respecting his wishes, willow once again forces him to join her again.

i wouldn't call willow toxic or abusive, because she isn't. but i would say that she didn't respect hunter's boundaries in the slightest. she doesn't treat anyone else the way she treats hunter. she's not exactly mean to him but she also does not seem to respect him as an individual. again, she is written wildly out of character just so that she could fulfil the role of the “powerful girlboss” in the relationship. and it doesn't help that a dominant and forceful figure is the last thing hunter needs, considering how he was controlled and abused by his uncle his whole life.

3. Equality

it is my opinion that in a relationship, both individuals should play an important role. and they should balance each other out, instead of clashing with each other. it doesn't necessarily have to be an “opposites attract” situation, they just need to have qualities that brings a balance to the relationship.

in sokka's and suki's relationship, we've already established that suki is the brawn. she's the trained warrior and her agility, skill and speed are her strengths. sokka, on the other hand, is the brains. suki is still a rational and smart person but sokka is the strategist, the “idea guy”.

here, there's a balance. neither sokka nor suki are weak or incompetent, they're just skilled in different areas.

but when it comes to huntlow, willow is the brawn while hunter.. does close to nothing. after meeting willow, he's basically useless. the most impactful thing he does is stand up against belos in “Thanks to Them” and rescue willow from a short fall in the next episode. otherwise, he is mostly pushed to the back despite, again, having a personality and his own strengths prior to meeting willow. the problem here isn't that hunter shouldn't be weak or vulnerable, but rather that he is forced into the damsel role when it goes against his original character.

4. Screentime, interaction and development

one thing that huntlow and sukka had in common is neither ship had too much screentime together. suki wasn't officially part of the gaang until s3 and before that, she just gets two interactions with sokka. but these interactions were used to their fullest potential.

when they first meet each other, sokka and suki do not get along well. sokka was convinced that women aren't good warriors and his pride is hurt by the fact that suki is stronger than him, while suki is understandably put off by sokka's misogynistic and condescending attitude. after he tries to teach her how to fight and is consequently defeated by her, sokka rethinks his worldview. he goes back to suki and asks her to teach him how to fight, apologizing and admitting his mistake. suki agrees to teach him and through this, they bond. it is revealed at the end of the episode that both sokka and suki may or may not have a thing for each other. afterwards, sokka has to leave and suki has to stay behind.

their next meeting is a lot more brief but even here, we see a clear demonstration of their dynamic. sokka is overjoyed to see suki but he still hasn't moved on from yue, so when suki confesses to him and tries to initiate a kiss, sokka rejects her. suki apologizes to him later for what happened, and sokka kisses her as a confirmation that he has now moved on and likes her back. we see a clear respect of boundaries and personal choices from both sides.

finally, after suki is captured by azula, sokka frees her and they are reunited again until the end. at this point, they're basically a couple. there's no more awkward blushing or stuttering; they're just a pair of teenagers who are in love with each other. they have a bit of playful banter and they're very casual and comfortable around each other.

suki was originally supposed to be a one-time character so it's incredible that they pulled off on the best ships in atla with her and sokka. their chemistry was undeniable from the beginning, and the writers knew how to expand on it.

now let's come to huntlow. hunter and willow meet each other for the first time in the s2b episode ‘Any Sport in a Storm’. willow is looking for candidates to join her flyer derby team and she sees hunter flying on his palisman. completely unprovoked, the willow who normally never attacked or forced something on people for no reason, decides that the best way to scout this random guy she doesn't know is by encasing him in vines and dragging him to the ground, destroying the concrete in the process. this may have been portrayed as something of a slapstick comedy, but that kind of humor never stuck with me.

after willow explains herself to hunter, he agrees to join her team, thinking it would be an easy way to recruit students into the emperor's coven. fast forward, they get a few members to their group.

hunter notices that all of these members are visibly slacking off and gets discouraged. he turns to leave and willow stops him in his tracks. when she tells him to give them a chance, hunter ‘opens up’ to her a little, by telling her that he had to earn chances, especially as a “half a witch”. this comes out of nowhere because we never see hunter being referred to as half a witch by anyone prior to this. there were certainly characters who disliked him, like lilith and kikimora, but they called him names like “golden brat”. in fact, it's not even clear if anyone other than hunter and belos knows that he has no magic. the whole half a witch line was added so that hunter and willow would have something in common.

willow, instead of reasoning with hunter or respecting his choice to leave, drags him to the ground once again and seemingly teleports him back to the flyer derby team. while this may not have been done with malicious intent, it was still another instance of willow invading hunter's boundaries and forcing him to do something.

hunter is convinced that the team is, in fact, competent. he plays the game with them and has fun doing it. after getting the team captured to join the emperor's coven and saving them from darius, the episode ends with darius turning out to be the good guy and hunter getting a penstagram (or whatever they call it, i forgot).

after this, the huntlow scenes are very scarce. we barely see them interact, especially not alone with each other. in the next episode, we see willow standing up for hunter and hunter blushing and recognizing that the fake willow isn't willow. while this would be sweet for an already established couple, since hunter and willow barely had a bond at this point, it just comes off as hunter being observant. which is somewhat in character for him.

afterwards, there's just a sprinkle of this ship, most of it consisting of hunter being shy and nervous around willow. and willow treating him like she treats everyone else. there's no sign of willow liking hunter back until literally the episode before the finale. where, instead of focusing on hunter's recent trauma with being possessed by his abusive parent and losing his best friend, the show decides to focus on willow's issues instead. of course willow deserves her own arc, but she already got it back in s1. there was no reason to give her ANOTHER issue to work on, just so that hunter can comfort her and give her a reason to like him back.

overall, it was really forced and these two characters never had the kind of natural chemistry that sokka and suki did. their interactions were either awkward or surface-level wholesome. we get exactly two (2) episodes where they interact properly and even that isn't done well. it just feels like these characters were pushed into a ship dynamic that they didn't naturally fit into.

#anti toh #toh criticism #toh critical #toh discourse #toh salt #anti huntlow #anti huntl0w #toh #atla #avatar the last airbender #the owl house spoilers #the owl house salt #the owl house criticism #the owl house critical #the owl house discourse #the owl house

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spop-romanticizes-abuse · 26 days

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wow, is this post about huntlow?

(willow isn't exactly invulnerable, she does have some emotional moments after she meets hunter. however, she is suddenly turned into a "badass girlboss" and the rest of the post holds up.)

#btw i think the original post was about percabeth from pjo #i'm not sure #toh critical #toh criticism #toh discourse #toh salt #anti toh #anti huntlow #antihuntlow

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anti-spop · 1 month

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Hello! I just saw ur post saying g hintlow is badly written in your opinion. Could you please tell me why you think so? I'm kinda curious?

I also didn't really like huntlow since it kinda came outta no where all of a sudden but what do you think??

*cracks knuckles* (just kidding lol)

Honestly, I just think H/untlow has several writing problems. I'll be pointing out the main reasons I think so under the cut. If anyone who follows me or comes across this post ships H/untlow, it's totally fine, just please don't send me hate for what I'll say here:

Hunter and Willow have nothing in common. The show forces the "half a witch" thing onto Hunter despite the fact he was never called that anywhere in the show, he's usually just called annoying or a brat. Besides, Hunter could be a metaphor for disability considering he doesn't have natural magic powers (until the show decided to kill off Flapjack, but I'll get into that later). However, Willow is not the case. She may not be good at abomination magic, but she's incredibly powerful with plant magic. But for some reason, the show treats these experiences as equals, even though that's a thing Hunter has more in common with Luz than Willow (and in this case I'm not talking through a romantic lens).

Hunter and Willow are out of character. Hunter, the prodigy and the emperor's right hand, becomes utterly pathetic and wimpy just so Willow can look like a badass girlboss. And Willow then just comes off as cruel sometimes. I appreciate Willow for being nice but also being a badass, but even then, Willow was never cruel prior to her meeting Hunter. She apologized to Luz when she realized she could've hurt her, and when Willow met Gus she was patient and understanding, teaching him a breathing technique to calm him down. I'm not saying Willow has to be overly nice, but she just randomly captures Hunter to make him join her flyer derby team. And at this point she doesn't even know that Hunter is the Golden Guard, so she just... attacks a random kid and scares him for no reason. Worse yet the fact that she drags him into the ground THE SAME WAY BELOS DOES in Hollow Mind. Even after Hunter tells her he's "half a witch", Willow isn't patient with him, she's just a brute again. Which is my next point:

Unhealthy power dynamic. Hunter refers to Willow as "captain", and it's honestly a red flag to me. I am NOT saying Willow is abusive. However, we have to remember that Hunter's abuser uses his position of power to mistreat him. Hunter looks up to someone who's not an equal to him and in turn, he does not value himself. And Willow never seems to realize it and explicitly say that she's not his leader, she's his friend. This pairing is basically the girlboss/malewife model, but not only does it not make sense, it's not healthy for Hunter to fall in love with someone who has power over him, and who might be paralleled to his abuser as I pointed out before.

Ruined character arcs. I think most of us agree that Hunter's character arc was unsatisfactory as he became another Caleb without ever processing it, but Willow was definitely done dirty as well. Willow never had her own episode, not even Understanding Willow was about her, it was more about Amity. Any Sport in a Storm also focuses more on Hunter. Even Gus had more character development than Willow, despite the fact he was also done dirty in the end. Willow's breakdown wasn't carefully developed, it was never hinted in Thanks to Them or anywhere before that. It came out of nowhere in For the Future, and in turn it just pushed Hunter's character (and Gus, literally) aside so he could save Willow. And this is yet ANOTHER point I hate:

Willow only reciprocates Hunter's crush when he gains powers. Seriously, for the longest time I didn't even think H/untlow was going to be mutual. Only Hunter seemed to be attracted to Willow, by blushing and being shy around her. Willow never seems to see Hunter in another light in the following episodes, not even in Thanks to Them despite them living with each other for months. That only happens in For the Future, which left a bad taste in my mouth. Like I said before, Hunter might be considered disabled, but his disability is "cured" with magic, and ONLY THEN does Willow fall for him. That contradicts the entire message of the show, which welcomes and celebrates disabilities.

And overall, Hunter and Willow never have a genuine emotional connection. Hunter has more connection and things in common with Luz, Gus, and even Amity (and sadly, his parallels with Amity were never really explored after Eclipse Lake). Hunter and Luz don't have magical powers. Hunter and Gus are both taken advantage of by others, and they have an identity crisis, not knowing how to trust themselves anymore. Hunter and Amity then, they were both raised in an abusive household and they're expected to be someone they're not, and they have to push everyone else down so they can be better. But Hunter and Willow don't share this kind of connection. They might touch on the "half a witch" thing but that never deepens. And in For the Future, it comes off as rushed, and Hunter has to push down his grief for Flapjack to save Willow. Not to mention Gus and Hunter never get to talk about Caleb - Gus always knew about Hunter's secret, and not even THAT gets a satisfying payoff because the show is more concerned in making H/untlow canon. But that would have to be its own post.

Sorry this got long, lmao. I have very strong feelings about how H/untlow was handled. I actually used to ship it at first, I think it COULD'VE worked. But they don't even seem to be close friends at the very least. It sucks because even R/aeda was written better despite the fact it had less screentime than L/umity. Sure, Eda and Raine were ex-lovers, but I thought their relationship was written very well for the most part. I don't know how the writers dropped the ball with H/untlow this way.

#asks #toh critical #anti huntlow #<- tagging for blacklist #not spop #abuse tw

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ch3rrysunbl0ss0mx3 · 5 months

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How did huntl0w surpass Lumity???? The MAIN SHIP OF THE SHOW

#the owl house #anti huntlow #lumity #luz noceda #hunter noceda #willow park #amity blight #lqbtq #this is insane

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mayandjuly1811 · 5 months

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It's crazy how some people criticize Luz for being a bad friend for befriending Amity but no one says the same things when Willow befriends Hunter.

In Season 1, Amity verbally bullies Willow in only two episodes: S1ep3 (I was a teenage Abomination) and S1ep6 (Hooty's Moving Hassle). Ever since episode 6, there aren't any episodes in which Amity verbally bullies Willow anymore. And Luz befriends Amity since s1e12 (Adventures in the Elements). Amity hasn't apologized to Willow at that time, but at least she stops her bullying.

“Luz is a terrible friend for being close to her friend's ex bully.” Then by that logic, isn't Willow a terrible one for befriending Hunter, the one that hurt her friends more?. Willow knows that the Golden Guard works for Belos, who almost petrified Eda. And as a close friend to Luz, Willow also knows how Hunter attacked Eda, Luz and King in Separate Tides and how he attacked and threatened Amity in Eclipse Lake. Moreover, Hunter also lets the Scouts kidnap and lock Willow's flyer derby team up.

Even though Hunter stops Darius from kidnapping the flyer derby team, he is still a threat. Why? Hunter was still the Golden Guard who is extremely loyal to Belos before "Labyrinth Runner". He hasn't proved that he's not a threat and an ally. Yet, Willow still befriends him and texts him after he kidnapped her and her flyer derby team as well as hurting her other friends. Strangely, no one says anything about that.

The hypocrisy makes me annoyed since it has something to do with misogyny and Huntlow favoritism over Lumity

#toh #toh critical #anti huntlow #luz noceda #amity blight

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xan-the-emo-trans-man · 1 month

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does anyone else think Huntlow is overrated or am I the only one

#If you send me hate over not liking your ship #Grow the hell up #i litterally got attacked on pintrest for saying I didn’t like them #I hate some of y’all #Owl house #toh #the owl house #anti huntlow #don’t even get me started on why I don’t like them #They’re boring #Have no chemistry #Don’t even look good together #Came out of nowhere #I also don’t like Willow #That’s a main reason #I’d prefer Lunter over them tbh #Huntric #goldric

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arowolfwalker · 1 year

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Zeno Robinson is iconic for this

#JDTJFDHFDDJF #I HAVE THE BIGGEST GRIN ON MY FACE RN #toh #anti huntlow #toh spoilers #toh for the future spoilers #the owl house #the owl house for the future #for the future spoilers #the owl house spoilers #the way i havent even seen the full episode yet but XJFJFXMFX #min screams #willow park #hunter noceda #willow toh #hunter toh #even if its a joke idc aro hunter and willow truthers will take what we can get #huntl0w negative

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shadowflayeronlyfanz2 · 2 months

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reminder that canon ships are ABSOLUTELY capable of being trash!!

#anti mileven #anti huntlow #anti catradora #anti stolitz

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space--butterflies · 9 months

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not to be a bitch, but it's feeling more and more like the fandom is reducing/has reduced Hunter to just being Willow's boyfriend Caleb, and nothing else lately.

#toh critical #anti huntlow #remember when hunter was his own person?#and not just caleb 2.0 or willow's bf?#those were the days #and no i will NEVER get over how the show treated him #his best friend dies to magically cure him of his disability and now suddenly the girl he likes sees him as more than a friend #seems pretty sus to me #not to be a hunter stan but goddamn the show did him fucking dirty #you know what willow also deserves better #they both deserve better #i love them separate but hate them as a couple

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noodleyp · 2 months

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I just wrote a small piece of writing about why I dislike Huntlow so much and love Willuz, personally. Copied and pasted here.

Huntlow sucks absolute ass.

Character death for both Hunter and Willow

Hunter needed more time to work on himself. He was absolutely lost without his structure and chain of command. He replaced the Coven with Willow, he viewed her as his new “commander” of sorts, only addressing her as “Captain” for the longest time.

Meanwhile it feels like they had to write away a decent amount of Willow’s character to make Huntlow work better imo. She was definitely on the path to becoming the “strong, independent woman” of the show, even if cliché, all this was thrown away to put her right at Hunter’s side.

Honestly I think Willuz would’ve worked amazingly. Both Willow and Luz are incredibly independent and kind characters, and would’ve worked incredibly well together, allowing the both of them to be themselves, but together. I like Lumity, but I feel Willuz would’ve been phenomenal.

4/9/2024: Edited for readability and clarification

#the owl house #toh #toh critical #toh criticism #anti huntlow #ship hate #willuz

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they-call-me-haiku · 7 months

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i hate the whole "the show was cancelled" excuse that toh fans constantly use to justify poor writing choices. i'm as upset as anyone that toh was cut short, but the show writers got an advantage that a lot of other shows didn't. they were allowed to actually end the show. look at infinity train, for example. it had more seasons planned but the execs decided to cancel it without even giving the creators time to write a proper ending.

so in that case, the writers of toh should consider themselves lucky and make do with what they have. of course, it's most ideal to have the freedom to write the entire show how you want. but when you can't do that but you're allowed to give the series a proper resolution, you have to pick and choose what plot points to focus on.

instead of focusing on the important arcs and plot points (belos's backstory, the collector's origin, hunter's arc, etc) the writers decided to add completely unnecessary ships and additions to further complicate the plot. i'll say it: huntlow was unnecessary, the whole hexside and kikimora thing in s3e2 was unnecessary, the collector's rushed redemption arc was unnecessary. in fact, some of these decisions actively affected the ongoing plot badly (huntlow ruining hunter's arc and bringing him back to square one).

in the end, you're left with more questions than answers. what's with the collector's sudden switch from evil and calculating to poor innocent uwu child? what actually happened in belos's past? how did hunter move on from his trauma without getting any closure and being paired with a person who acts a lot like his controlling uncle? why did amity forgive luz so quickly for lying to her after she asked her not to? what happened to all the witches and citizens of the demon realm who actually followed and worshipped belos?

so yeah, you really can't defend toh with this excuse. if i was making a show and was forced to cut it short, i'd be angry and upset, sure. but i'd try to make the best of it. i would focus on the main plot instead of going after side characters or ships that add nothing of importance to the plot. i still like this show a lot but i'm not going to blindly defend it. it has its flaws and they need to be critiqued.

#toh criticism #toh critical #toh salt #toh discourse #anti huntlow #anti huntl0w #huntl0w negative #i had high hopes for this show i really did #especially around hollow mind era when it really peaked #i was so hyped about belos and how complex he was #but then they scrapped all of the religious trauma in the finale and was like “nah he's pure evil just murder his ass”#i'm not saying i wanted a belos redemption #but his arc was so disappointing #he may not be forgivable but he was a sympathetic character #the reason i loved belos so much in s2 was because of how interesting and well-written he was #they really had to go and ruin that

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