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vivid-bluez · 6 months

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Helluva Boss' Worldbuilding is Awful

This is going to be a different post than what I normally post. It will be a bit more negative than how I normally word things but I want to get my thoughts out there since it's something I've been hyper fixating on for awhile.

Helluva Boss is a web series on YouTube currently in its 2nd season created by Vivienne Medrano, it serves as a spin-off of her other creative property Hazbin Hotel which was recently picked up by A24 and will air its first season on Prime next month. I wanted to discuss the worldbuilding of Helluva Boss, how and why I think it doesn't work, and why that hurts it's storytelling. This essay isn't meant to be only dunking on Viv or people who still love the show, I'm not writing this to be mean. I'm writing this because I do have a soft spot for these shows, Helluva Boss S1 is a comfort show to me and Hazbin was my first foyer into indie animation. I respect Medrano for what she was able to accomplish with her shows and I write this as my own form of a love letter to the show that I want so badly to improve and be the best it can be.

The Hierarchy

Both Hazbin and Helluva take place in the same universe and are set in the same location, Hell. Hell is a concept that's been around for a long time and has had several stories written about it, it has multiple different interpretations and depictions throughout the years. Medrano's version of Hell seems to be based on Dante's Inferno version of Hell, a story that depicts Hell as having multiple layers with the sins being condensed to their own rings. Medrano's version only has 7 rings as opposed to Dante's 9 rings, one ring for each of the 7 deadly sins.

Medrano's Hell is depicted as a hierarchical society with very strict rules that those within the hierarchy must obey. Those at the bottom of the hierarchy are treated like garbage by those above them, with very little one can do to transcend the position they were born into. Furthermore, dating someone underneath you in the hierarchy, especially if you're higher on it like in the Ars Goeita, is seen as disgraceful and disgusting. The hierarchy is depicted below:

This hierarchy, as confirmed by Medrano in an interview and further established in Helluva, is the official ranking of the denizens of Hell. It seems fine until you realize that the Sinners, former humans who sinned in life and got themselves into Hell, are above all of the Hellborn in status. The reason it doesn't really make sense is because Hell is meant to be a place where sinners are tortured for eternity for their sins, with the Hellborn usually being the ones doing the torturing. So why are they above the Hellborn? Why do mortal souls outrank those of actual demons? We're never given an answer for this, it's really odd.

My other problem with the hierarchy is that its established rules are often broken and bent when the writers feel like it. The most prominent example is when it comes to Higher Demons having relationships with Lower Demons. In the first season; Blitz, an Imp, someone at the bottom of the hierarchy, and Stolas, a member of the Ars Goeita and a Prince, being in a sexual relationship with each other is seen as disgusting and shocking by those around them.

When Stella is calling Stolas out for cheating on her she seems more upset that it was with an imp, with most of her insults being based around that.

"Do you want to fuck this one (referring to their imp butler) too?!" - Stella (S1E2 LooLoo Land) "Fucking IMP SUCKER!" - Stella (S2E4 Western Energy)

When Stolas and Blitz are called out in Ozzie's for their relationship, the characters don't seem to point out that he's cheating but again, who he's cheating with.

"ARE YOU SLEEPIN' WITH AN IMP?!" - Wally Wackford (S1E7 Ozzie's) "Whew! My dark lord, how the mighty do fall." - Asmodeus (S1E7 Ozzie's)

All of these moments make it clear that having a relationship with someone outside of your social class, especially those at the literal bottom of the barrel, is frowned upon heavily in Hell's society.

So why are Ozzie and Fizz, and also Bee and Tex, able to be so public about their relationships and nobody cares?

Tex, a hellhound on the same level of status as the imps arguably even lower, is dating Beezlebub, a Deadly Sin and queen of the Gluttony Ring. They don't hide their relationship at all, with Tex introducing her as his girlfriend at a public event and Bee acting very lovey-dovey to him in public. Shouldn't there be a scandal about this? The class difference is arguably more than Blitz and Stolas, with Stolas only being a demon Prince, Bee is a Queen and she's dating someone whom most of Hell considers to be little more than actual pets. No one looks at them weird or even makes a comment about it?

Fizz and Ozzie are in the same boat, a deadly sin, the King of Lust is dating an imp. They at least somewhat point this out in the universe (Newspaper articles of Ozzie being a hypocrite and characters calling their relationship the worst-kept secret in Hell) but they don't get nearly the same amount of venom and societal ridicule that Stolas and Blitz got. When Asmodeus confirms in front of an entire crowd of Hellborns at Mammon's Clown Pageant in S2E7 MAMON'S MAGNIFICENT MIDSEASON SPECIAL, the crowd is... extremely accepting of it. With all of them cheering for Fizz and Ozzie and Mammon seemingly being the odd one out when it comes to ridiculing them for their supposedly forbidden love.

So what's the deal? Are higher demons and lower demons forbidden from dating each other or not? Because of how the show is written, it seems like it's only a problem when it's Stolas and Blitz. It's one example but still a glaring inconsistency in the worldbuilding that leaves several fans confused.

Hell not feeling like Hell

So outside of the hierarchy posing its own issues the actual setting also poses its own issues. A common criticism I've seen of Helluva and Hazbin is that Hell is just "Earth but red" and I'd have to agree with that honestly. You could replace the setting of Helluva as a group of assassins running a business in a major city like Los Angeles and change Stolas to being just a shady rich corporate backer and very little about the plot would change.

I'll just rapid fire some things that Hell has that make no sense in a place that's supposed to be evil, lawless, and a place of eternal suffering:

Fire Fighters

Hospitals that even lower classes can use.

Jails and Cops?? (What the fuck)

A fucking priest, officiating a wedding with a bible which implies there's a Hell Christianity?

Weddings and marriages that seem identical to Earth ones or Christian marriages (wouldn't Hell hate marriages for how they're tied to religion and God?)

Fucking Courts.

If these were one-off gags or something mentioned only once, I could let it slide. (Like Millie and Moxxie being married or Stolas and Stella getting a divorce) but when you drag out these plot points or repeatedly show things that make your world just feel like Earth but with a new coat of paint on it, It begins to feel like your world is just Earth but with a new coat of paint on it.

The worldbuilding in Helluva Boss feels like the worldbuilding in Cars where it just leaves more questions than it answers. (Why are sidewalks a thing in a world of sentient cars? They show an American flag so does that mean that the Car Civil War happened? THE POPE IS HERE IS THERE A CAR JESUS THAT DIED ON THE CAR CROSS FOR OUR CAR SINS??)

What is Demonic Law?

In Helluva Boss, the business the characters run is stated by multiple characters to be illegal. There are demons permitted to access the human world and imps are not one of them, making their business illegal. I.M.P's use of Stolas' grimoire is illegal it is not meant to be lent out to anyone, especially not to imps, Stolas even says so himself in S1E5 Harvest Moon. Stolas later affirms that the Imps need to be careful because if they get caught it could land all of them in trouble in S1E6 Truth Seekers:

"How the fuck did you get caught!? Were you not being careful? If you get in trouble I get in trouble!" - Stolas (S1E6 Truth Seekers)

So what's the deal with Stolas in S2E6 waltzing up to a DEADLY SIN and basically admitting that Blitz's running an ILLEGAL BUSINESS AND HE'S AN ACOMPLIS TO IT?? Asmodeus just... doesn't care that this demon prince just admitted to breaking demon law? Also, Blitz can advertise his business without worry that it could bite him in the ass, no one else at I.M.P. is concerned that they're running an illegal business that could land all of them in hot water? No one questions why a bunch of imps have access to the living world even though they're not supposed to?

Another thing they set up is Human Disguises, in S1E3 where Loona calls them out for going to the human world without using human disguises, making a big deal out of it. Whenever Loona goes to the human world she wears a human disguise as well as Verosika, her squad, and Stolas in S2E2.

"A human called me a possum! I am NOT a possum!" - Moxxie (S1E3 Spring Broken)

The human disguise rule is so inconsistent, why do Loona and Stolas wear theirs in Seeing Stars when Octavia is wandering around without one and the most people do is give her weird looks. The imps run around fine without them and no one cares or can see through their bad disguises The humans in the Hellverse are too stupid to notice the literal demons so why even bring up disguises at all? Why have human disguises be apart of Demon Law if it doesn't matter?

Demons being ...Nice?

A common response to criticism of this show is usually "It's Hell.". While I've already gone over why it sure don't feel like it but what's weirder still is yes, it's hell. Why are some people so fucking nice?

Moxxie doesn't want to kill an innocent mother and seems pretty soft, Millie and Moxxie are incredibly loving and caring to each other, when Blitz is younger, he has qualms against stealing, then we've got Beezlebub and Asmodeus who, by all accounts, are just nice people.

Bee becomes concerned for Blitz when he begins binge drinking (Aka, engaging in her sin) at one of her parties and Asmodeus has an entire speech about why consent matters and how lust shouldn't be forced. I'm not advocating for Ozzie to be a rapist or for Bee to be a one dimensional bitch but, it really doesn't make sense for the literal embodiments of sins to be so nice.

On that same note, there are villians in this show that we're mostly supposed to hate because they're.. mean?

Glitz and Glam, we hate them because they're hyper-competitive and mean to Fizz, but they're demons? Shouldn't we expect them to be mean? Stella is an abusive screaming harpy and awful to Stolas and we hate her for it, but she's a demon princess? Shouldn't that behavior be normal in Hell?

Certain demons being nice is fine, and it can give them depth, but when every 'good guy' is nice and chill and only the evil or villainousxczxc characters are cartoonishly evil it starts to become apparent that it's writer's bias.

Conclusion

While this isn't all of the worldbuilding issues that exist within Medrano's Hellverse, it's the big ones that I have the most problems with. For a show that's supposed to be made as a way to further build upon the world of Hell, Helluva does a very poor job at that and at points is even detrimental to Hazbin.

What I mean is, if Charlie needs a backer to the hotel, why doesn't she ask Ozzie or Bee? They seem like they'd be down for it since they're surprisingly anti-sin. Charlie no longer feels special because she isn't the only nice demon, she isn't the odd one out anymore since a lot of Hell's leaders also seem to be pretty chill and nice.

Again, this isn't a rant or something that I made to dunk on these shows, I love both of them still and I want them to be better. For Hazbin and Helluva to live up to their potential and be the best they can be, no work is above being critiqued, it comes with the territory and I wish more of the fandom was normal about someone having negative feelings towards parts of the show's writing and to stop putting good faith and bad faith criticism in the same boot and backing that shit into the Hudson.

#helluva boss #helluva boss critique #helluva boss criticism #worldbuilding #long post #like no seriously #hazbin hotel #hazbin hotel critique #hazbin hotel criticism #the autism is autisming

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chaifootsteps · 3 days

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the first thing that I noticed while watching Viv's interview is how she kept using the word "I" every single time. My job is in a field where teamwork is essential and whenever I talk about any project I always use "we", because it's fair even to the people who did not work actively in that single project but got everyone there nonetheless. It's okay to occasionally take the merit for something you're proud of having done, but the only times she used "we" were when she was talking about the (new) voice actors. She even said something like "when *I* made the pilot" and I was like "I'm not so sure you made that on your own..."

It couldn't have hurt her to, at least once, use the plural or idk, thank her staff maybe? there was one time the interviewer used the plural and Viv answered using "I", once again.

Just gonna leave a reminder of exactly how vile Viv is being when she says "I made the pilot."

#Anonymous #vivziepop #vivziepop critical #viv stuff #actual blog post

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woomycritiques543 · 1 year

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Ok.

I cant beleive that im saying this but-

STOP TALKING ABOUT JUST HELLUVA BOSS!

-and from that I mean:

The show is awful beyond repair, and what we talk about now is just a repeat of what we’ve said before to the point of burnt out when we already know how this season ends.

The show has bad representation, we get the point. Move on.

-and number two.

THERE ARE PEOPLE IN REAL LIFE GETTING HURT RIGHT NOW AND ALL YOU CAN THINK ABOUT IS A CARTOON BIRD?!

Really, that’s what we’re going to do?

Whine about a cartoon bird being a creep while the creator in real life has been following a incest blog for over five years?! Not even mentioning the real life implications anymore but just a fictional character doing a bad thing? Not even representation and how it effects real people, but just going “WAAAA VIV’s DEPICTING INCEST IN A SHOW AND DIDN’T DO ANYTHING THAT HAS TO DO WITH REPRESENTATION IM TELLING MOM!!!” No, that doesn’t matter.

We already know how the show is going to end. We already know how S2 going to end and all of what needed to be said about the fictional characters has now been said.

When what is important is REPRESENTATION!

-and not just that, but helping those that worked on said cartoon that need our help because they’re being treated horribly- While most of us just sit there and whine about a cartoon character being evil, honestly, it’s becoming tiresome, we cant keep just making this about Helluva Boss anymore-

SPINDLEHORSE NEEDS OUR HELP! So many people are still at that studio and yet we’re still focusing on just the show and that’s not what’s needed at this point! We need to help with what’s happening IRL!

Vivzuepop isnt just transphobic, but also a literal ableist by calling depression “disingenuous” just because it isn’t obvious to her and literally called trans men and gnc “ashamed of being a woman” and a “trender!”

That’s horrible, and yet the fandom still tries to act as if this is somehow “normal” behavior for someone who claims to be a “trans ally” to have when it’s clear that she only shoves the transgender label onto characters that are on the storyboards, shoves them into the background, or erases them if they’re noticeable, when that just means that she doesn’t actually want to represent them, and with her outward transphobia, only did it for brownie points and to fetishize them for money while claiming that trans men are “ASHAMED OF BEING WOMEN AND ARE LOUD HARASSERS THAT WANT TO BE WHITE MEN!” when the “white” part is just a strawman argument to be transphobic.

In fact, everyone that Vivienne Medrano has hurt needs our help, and at this point, Helluva Boss is becoming a waste of moral time that could have been used to help someone in REAL LIFE! There’s so many of us, we can all do something if we combine our efforts instead of just getting angry on Tumblr about cartoon characters most of the time. But that’s it, we need to actually do something and go OUTSIDE OF TUMBLR to places that are more visible. So again- We need to have “#StopVivziepop” at least get close to trending. There are clearly enough of us, we just need to start doing it.

We need to get all that we have seen/learned, but it into a document, and post threads, along with interviews, etc. We need to make what’s wrong with what Vivziepop is doing known, while talking about the wrongs of the animation industry as a whole.

We cant just make this about the cartoon anymore!

We need to TAKE ACTION!

#STOPVIVZIEPOP

#helluva boss critical #vivziepop criticism #vivziepop critical #StopVivziepop #helluva boss criticism #anti vivziepop #anti helluva boss #spindlehorse criticism #spindlehorse critique #anti hazbin hotel #hazbin hotel critical #hazbin hotel criticism #helluva critical #tagging everyone here since we need the help we can get. STOPVIVZIEPOP!

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s3tok41b4 · 4 months

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141737485

Viv talks with ScreenRant:

https://screenrant.com/hazbin-hotel-vivienne-medrano-interview/?utm_content=buffer4521b&utm_medium=Social-Distribution&utm_source=SR-TW&utm_campaign=SR-TW

>Vivienne Medrano: It was so exciting. Obviously, we were bringing the show, once I made the pilot and it was such a kind of runaway hit, I was like, "Oh my gosh, I don't know what's next." So, we were looking into, "Maybe is it Kickstarter?" How do we continue this show? And so, we were going to producers, seeing who was interested, and A24 just came to the table so excited. And, they just had this amazing offer, and they were so adamantly wanting it. And, that to me meant a lot because that meant that there was a lot of faith in it and a lot of excitement, and they ended up having so much faith in it that they were ready to make it themselves, and it was so incredible.

>Vivienne Medrano: Oh, I'm so excited for them. Obviously, Hazbin an amazing roster of amazing female characters in it. It's really fun. I feel like it's an incredibly female focused show. So, Carmilla and Lute are so different as characters. Lute is a very serious, ends up being a very dark, very villainous character. She's the right-hand man to the main villain of season one.

>And, Carmilla is this powerful business woman who's just so, she's got her own business in hell making basically all the repurposed weaponry of the Heaven weapons. So, they're able to basically be black market weapons that can kill demons, and they can kill each other. So, they're such fun characters. Obviously, I adore the voice work for them, and I can't wait for people to hear them and see them in action.

Shes trying to hype them up so hard.

Also lol, I don't think a24 really likes you much anymore viv.

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chaifootsteps · 4 months

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I wonder if that person has a background in anything lawyer related? Cause I can assure you, it's hard to take people to court for an interview for saying "hey, this is a job offer someone got from a company".

As much as Viv and her fandom would like it to be otherwise, "saying negative things about Vivienne Medrano" isn't a literal crime.

#Anonymous #viv stuff #actual blog post

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chaifootsteps · 5 months

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Steven Universe Anon here

I'm sorry I used that term to describe the Diamonds. It's something that's been thrown around and it always stuck in my head. It's why I used "".

But still, I rewatched Rebecca's interview about that song and it just makes me love her even more.

Rebecca Sugar is everything Vivienne Medrano isn't.

Honest, heartfelt, and genuine. I may have issues with Steven Universe, but it's way more mature than Viv's shows. Rebecca can actually write queer, complex female characters and is a talented musician. And has tackled way heavier stuff that Viv refuses to touch because she wants to be safe.

Like, she has instruments for each of the main characters and motifs for them. Her songs are so fucking GOOD and come from a very sensitive and creative place.

What do we get from Viv? "Fuck you this is my 2 mins notice fuck you!!!" "Your fist in my A" "Imma klown bitch" "it's like a feeling like a rumbling in your gut" "have you ever wanted something that was so clear in your mind?" "For the first time in our lives we are ready for this" "I need to be ready for this" "cotton candy" "let them eat cotton candy" "champagne fountains, caviar mountains that's just-"

Rebecca's body language and voice is so soft and is devoid of any deceit that Viv so clearly has. Watching her at GlitchX and seeing an interview with Sam H where all she does is nod all the time and pretends to be more professional than she actually is, proved to me that there's a wolf hiding under there.

I actually have a tattoo of Malachite and fucking showed Rebecca herself and she loved it. I always was afraid I'd end up regretting having an SU tattoo because of the internet making fun of SU awhile ago and pointing out the shows issues.

But now I don't regret it at all and I only fucking love SU even more.

I will always champion Rebecca and Steven Universe. Flaws and all.

https://youtu.be/YbBaGRboDVs?feature=shared

Nah, don't worry about it. Like you said, it's a thing the fandom throws around, I just wish they wouldn't. But yes, this is was beautifully said.

Rebecca's not perfect, no one is, but she does come across as such a gentle, thoughtful person. She forgot her beloved stuffed animal in her garden and came back to half of it faded and the experience of realizing it had changed without her, and been changed forever through her carelessness, colors her writing to this day.

Vivzie, who takes childish shots at her critics' follower counts, thought it was hilarious when her dad would hit on women in front of her and writes about that.

youtube

#Anonymous #steven universe anon #helluva boss critical #viv stuff #video reply #actual blog post

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