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atopvisenyashill · 5 months

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“i’m not a traitor like that bitch rhaenyra” - stannis baratheon, davos iv, a storm of swords

wrong as usual stannis. let’s dig in!!

the technical, legal heir

"the throne by rights passes to lord stannis, the elder of robert's two brothers." - ned, xiii "The Princess of Dragonstone remained his heir, with half the lords of Westeros sworn to defend her rights...The matter had been decided, so far as King Viserys was concerned; it was not an issue His Grace cared to revisit." - heirs of the dragon: a question of succession, f&b

argue with the wall over how “really legal” it is, that’s not the point of this meta, the point is that Rhaenyra and Stannis not only see themselves as the righteous legal heir to the throne and all others as traitors to the realm, they both talk about this constantly. It is integral to how they see the world.

dragonstone as a base of operations

"And while Robert had been riding north to Winterfell, Stannis had removed himself to Dragonstone, the Targaryen island fast he had conquered in his brother's name. He had given no word as to when he might return. " - ned, vi "Thereafter Queen Alicent kept to the Red Keep, whilst the princess spent her days on Dragonstone..." - heirs of the dragon: a question of succession, f&b

we see this retreat happen several times with lords paramount like edmure, robb, and tywin and with other targaryens like visenya & maegor, rhaena and baela, and daeron ii. it makes sense that, when faced with a political faction they can’t quite get ahead of, they choose to run home to recoup.

HOWEVER.

They both really fumble the recouping!! Stannis knows no one likes him and he’s fighting an uphill battle wrt getting anyone outside of Dragonestone’s vassals on his side, yet he doesn't reach out to anyone at court nor does he do much to endear anyone else to his side. Rhaenyra meanwhile, fucks up in the exact same way - she doesn't ask an ally to spy for her at court, doesn't attempt to endear herself with anyone in the realm except the Velaryons (and then, only specifically Corlys) until the war has already started.

resentful of younger brother because of strained relationship with older male relative

"I never asked for Dragonstone. I never wanted it. I took it because Robert’s enemies were here and he commanded me to root them out. I built his fleet and did his work, dutiful as a younger brother should be to an elder, as Renly should be to me. And what was Robert’s thanks? He names me Lord of Dragonstone, and gives Storm’s End and its incomes to Renly. Storm’s End belonged to House Baratheon for three hundred years; by rights it should have passed to me when Robert took the Iron Throne." - prologue, acok "What a king had done, a king could undo, Viserys pointed out. She would wed as he commanded, or he would make her half-brother Aegon his heir in place of her. At this the princess’s will gave way." - heirs of the dragon: a question of succession, f&b

both of them are deeply resentful of their younger brothers for stealing what they feel is their right; for stannis, it’s storm’s end and for rhaenyra it’s the iron throne. it doesn’t help that both renly and aegon are a) known for being party dudes, something stannis resents bc he’s a stick in the mud and rhaenyra resents because aegon can be a partier and a mess but she tries to fuck criston one (1) time and she’s forever a whore and b) this resentment is fueled by an older male relative.

while robert likely meant Dragonstone to be a gift of affection for stannis - even though robert does away with the prince of dragonstone title, he still gives dragonstone to stannis, who robert likely saw as his legal heir until joffrey was born, it wasn’t meant to be a demotion but a promotion! stannis, however, takes this as a huge sleight and stews over it for years and years. similarly, though viserys makes it very clear who his heir is (its rhaenyra), he makes things more difficult for rhaenyra and fans the flames of distrust between her and aegon by threatening to disown her when she chafes at being married to laenor.

relationships with illegitimate children descended from the first men

The Strongs are "...an ancient line of noble warriors boasting descent from the First Men..." that live somewhere in the Riverlands before taking over Harrenhal (and then dying out completely). Obviously there is some controversy in universe over whether Harwin is the father of the Velaryon boys or not (but. Come On Lmao), but ultimately the main reasoning for why Rhaenyra should be disinherited is that her heir, Jacaerys, is illegitimate. Jacaerys was also rumored to have married another bastard with the blood of the First Men, Sara Snow.

Stannis, meanwhile is heavily associated with two bastards as well - Edric Storm and Jon Snow. Both Cortnay Penrose and Davos Seaworth get incredibly protective over Edric when the boy is faced with death, albeit for different reasons than Rhaenyra gets protective of Luke but there is still the very real fear that someone may kill the boys for who their parents are. Later, Stannis allies with the Night’s Watch and Jon Snow specifically, unsuccessfully needling him into being lord of winterfell, relying on his advice re: the northern lords, and leaving his wife, heir, AND closest ally (melisandre) under Jon’s protection. What i think is a fun parallel here is that there’s a lot of controversy over Jon’s parentage just like the Velaryon boys and what’s more, he’s actually the son of a WOMAN who had a bastard, not a man, just like the Velaryon boys.

fire obsessed lover with a penchant for murder

do i need to explain this. obviously there’s massive differences in their characters but they both serve as the sort of devil on the shoulder types, they’re both associated with the color red, they both use fire to kill, and they both fucking love a murder.

low born advisor who others at court don’t like

again, massively different characters, but what’s important is that what we know about mysaria is how she is perceived & little else, and she is perceived as being a bad influence on rhaenyra. davos is also considered a bad influence on stannis due to his lowborn status.

it’s also fun that you have davos/melisandre & daemon/mysaria.

female heirs

Obviously. Rhaenyra is a woman and her claim is challenged because of that. As a matter of fact, the quote that sparked me thinking about how many similarities they have is Stannis’ own low opinion on Rhaenyra, which i jokingly alluded to above:

"Traitors have always paid with their lives... even Rhaenyra Targaryen. She was daughter to one king and mother to two more, yet she died a traitor's death for trying to usurp her brother's crown." - davos iv, asos

Stannis is calling Rhaenyra a traitor. Stannis is also about to explicitly name Shireen as his heir:

The knight hesitated. "Your Grace, if you are dead — " " — you will avenge my death, and seat my daughter on the Iron Throne. Or die in the attempt." - theon i, twow

The dissonance in this man’s mind makes me weep.

tense and sexless marriage

Stannis had always been uncomfortable around women, even his own wife. When he had gone to King's Landing to sit on Robert's council, he had left Selyse on Dragonstone with their daughter. His letters had been few, his visits fewer; he did his duty in the marriage bed once or twice a year, but took no joy in it, and the sons he had once hoped for had never come. - prologue, a clash of kings

Thereafter, though he joined his wife for important court events where his presence was expected, Ser Laenor spent most of his days apart from the princess. Septon Eustace says they shared a bed no more than a dozen times. - heirs of the dragon: a question of succession, f&b

For both couples, it really goes beyond "we don't like each other that much" like lysa/jon, for example, who do still have sex regularly and have several children (they just all died). instead, it's more in the visenya/aegon category - these couples are actively avoiding each other's beds and company.

homoeroticism

PLUS - it is funny how both marriages have some weird gay subtext going on. laenor is actually, canonically gay and rhaenyra is “more than fond” of laena velaryon. read: they’re fucking. i don’t care if you don’t believe laenyra is real in the books, because do you know when else the term “more than fond” is used in this series? to describe sam’s feelings for gilly, lothor brune’s feeling for mya stone, and arianne’s lack of feelings for arys. it’s romantically used THREE times, and then once for laena and rhaenyra. even if they never actually had sex, there was a romantic friendship there, and not just a Girls Supporting Girls thing.

And I will make the exact same argument for davos and stannis!! although that one is less controversial because Davos is walking around saying that his tongue belongs to Stannis and Stannis calls Davos “MY onion knight”. everyone in the book remarks on how Stannis doesn’t like women, and part of that is just his weird personality but there’s a weird, repressed sexuality thing happening with him here, in an odd sort of parallel to Rhaenyra's very damaged view of sex and sexuality as well (what with all the incest and grooming).

Both Stannis AND Rhaenyra find themselves craving intimacy but whereas Stannis never acts on it and now everyone thinks he’s a prude, Rhaenyra does act on some of her desires and gains the reputation of being a whore. So much gender dynamic shit going on, so much that’s interesting in the way gay men are desexualized and bisexual women are hypersexualized. But moving on to my very last point of comparison!

some opinion on the alicent and cersei of it all

i think a lot of people balk at Alicent/Cersei comparisons because they feel it’s an insult against one or the other. The thing is, I think it’s very on purpose that Alicent and Cersei serve very similar functions in their respective stories - queen mother who uses her son to help advance her own station from a politically active, incredibly rich family with one sweet daughter and multiple sons of wildly differing temperaments - but for literally the EXACT OPPOSITE REASONS.

Similarly, I think Rhaenyra and Stannis are also meant to be a bit of parallel in their stories - a Dragonstone dwelling, fire and murder loving, aesthetic heavy sect of the royal family who somehow managed to produce the only vaguely well adjusted members of the family that are utterly doomed by the narrative (rip shireen and the strong-velaryon boys). But again for the EXACT OPPOSITE REASONS - Stannis is protesting the legitimacy of Cersei’s children while it’s Rhaenyra’s children whose legitimacy is being questioned. It’s a really fun connection between the Dance and the Wo5K to me.

SHOW ONLY BONUS: PROPHECIES ABOUT THE LONG NIGHT

a prophetic dream by aegon the conqueror about a threat from the north has supposedly been passed down from king to heir, and is passed from viserys to rhaenyra in house of the dragon. it plays a significant role in the story; viserys, alicent, rhaenyra, AND daemon all interact with it in some way or another, and the fact that viserys told rhaenyra and not daemon is just, A Huge thing for Rhaenyra. Just look at that face, I’m sorry, the acting delights me:

emma d'arcy the actor that you are!!!!!

Meanwhile, in the books, Stannis not only believes he is Azor Ahai (who it is theorized is the same thing as the prince that was promised), but Stannis going North is a huge turning point in Team Dragonstone, and Jon’s, stories. Just as Rhaenyra takes strength in the idea that SHE is the true heir, a Targaryen capable of uniting the realm to fight the Long Night, Stannis is convinced that he is a fabled hero who will save Westeros from an evil threat.

It seems unlikely it’ll ever be relevant to Rhaenyra in the books but we do know some sort of prince that was promised prophecy does exist and was found by at least a few targaryens because maester aemon mentions it and dany has a vision of rhaegar telling elia. regardless of its relevance to book!Rhaenyra, I find it fascinating that Stannis has this in common with the show version of her.

Anyways, to sum up: