#Jon Snow and his relationships with the women in his family
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Jon Snow essentially has 3 different reputations throughout Terros:
The first one is as a hardass. This reputation is well earned because Jon himself cultivates his own behaviour in such a way that he will be taken seriously. Due to his young age and his social status as a bastard, it became necessary for Jon to adjust his behaviour accordingly. Whether it’s the Mountain Clans or the Wildlings or the King’s Men, everyone at the Wall knows that Jon means business. Even across the sea, in the Free City of Braavos, they have such a view of him. He’s referred to as “the Black Bastard of the Wall”. His own friends are wary of him because of the way he starts acting once he’s elected Lord Commander.
The second reputation is quite unfair but he’s still viewed that way by some people: a traitor. Part of it does have to do with his time with the Wildlings/relationship with Ygritte. Though interestingly enough, the Wildlings also express sentiments that suggests they believe Jon betrayed them. But that’s not the only reason why characters consider Jon to be a treacherous individual. Even before he went beyond the Wall, he was viewed in a negative light, because of his father being declared a traitor. So the sins of the father are reflected in the son. There is of course the anti-bastardy stigma in Westeros as well and that too affects opinions on Jon. The Blackfish even accuses him of conspiring with the Lannisters, the enemies of his family!
The third reputation that Jon has came about completely unintentionally. People around Jon seem to view him as someone who sleeps around. This too is a clear result of their society’s derogatory opinion of bastards as being sexually promiscuous. When his Night Watch brothers insinuate that Sam or Satin are his lovers, they do it as an insult. Jon’s show of kindness towards his fellows who are also viewed negatively is turned against him by people believing there is some salacious intent behind Jon’s actions. Jon had only one lover and that was Ygritte. But his friendly interactions with other women, like Val or Alys, makes people (primarily other men who feel entitled to those women) suggest he must surely have fucked them. From Jon’s POV we can understand that in his interactions with Melisandre, he is very standoffish. But that’s not how it’s perceived by his Night Watch brothers. Jon himself acknowledges that they will whisper rumours about him.
#feeling in a very jon snow mood tonight#valyrianscrolls#asoiaf#asoiaf meta#meta#jon snow#text#I was ‘arguing’ with someone on twitter earlier and#it really struck me how much this fandom takes at face value all the negative stereotypes about bastards#but grrm goes out of his way to disprove a lot of these claims#even the idea that bastards want to usurp their trueborn relatives is contradicted by#the majority of usurpers in the story being trueborn
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vivacissimx meta masterpost ✧˖°
We're about at the time where a post like this makes sense. If you see any missing metas it's likely because I no longer (entirely) agree with either a premise or phrasing and I'd like to rework it at some point—or I forgot. Feel free to ask!
I've bolded metas which I believe to be the most sound or that highlight a critical point which is overlooked by most ASOIAF analysis I have read. I also use the tags #text and #gender-in-asoiaf.
The Starks and the North
how jon being a bastard shaped the relationships between ALL members of house stark
on the abuse debate
how jon snow internalized catelyn tully stark's ideals
jon snow's heroes: an evolution from AGOT to ADWD
on jon snow and the R+L=J reveal
on jon snow's attraction to men
on jon snow forgiving theon greyjoy
on jon snow weaponizing his own competence
jon snow & women at the Wall: the question of rape
sansa stark & foreshadowed false testimony
sansa and ned have a foil relationship to lyanna and rickard
arya IS like other girls
arya stark: death and balance
arya & jon underrated parallels
the textual significance of the arya/lyanna parallels
the importance of lyanna stark's crypt statue
how lyanna influenced ned's acts of love for his daughters
how ned stark would perceive daenerys targaryen
what would happen to ned if robert discovered R+L=J?
Daenerys Targaryen
every daenerys ever: how dany's claim of a throne is foreshadowed throughout house targaryen's history
on the healing power of fire
on the myth that daenerys targaryen ruined meereen's economy
on the myth of a diplomatic solution in meereen
daenerys & ser barristan selmy: found family!
daenerys & bran: putting the first/last chapters of AGOT in conversation
daenerys & tyrion: how their TWOW alliance may come about
House Targaryen
on rhaegar targaryen and the prophecy of TPTWP
on alysanne targaryen, and how viserra's betrothal/the aftermath unfolded
viserra, alysanne, & baelon: a web weaving
viserra & saera
Theon Greyjoy
theon's gender: always broken, always under construction
[NOTE: this is the meta on which all my other theon meta relies. If you read nothing else I have ever said about theon, please read this.]
roose bolton as (another) father figure to theon
why theon greyjoy did not go visit his mother
theon greyjoy and the myth of return
theon greyjoy and winterfell's mirroring in ADWD
House Lannister
jaime & tyrion's awareness of cersei being abused
cersei lannister's brothers rationalization of cersei as being complicit in her abusive relationship
on cersei lannister's idealization of rhaegar, & also her dysphoria
ASOIAF Misc
breakdown of the grand maester conspiracy
unreliable narrators (and why we NEED arianne martell POV)
jon connington's memory
Dance of the Dragons Era
rhaenyra targaryen's maladaptive relationships due to abuse
rhaenyra & daemon's gender troubles
on viserys naming (and keeping) rhaenyra as his heir
on the legality of claims of bastardry
on queen alicent hightower
alicent, criston, & daemon as rhaenyra's formative (abusive) influences
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Why do you find Alysmond compelling at all? After he's with Alys, he seems to lose all motivation. He betrays his family, and without thinking rushes after Daemon - ultimately resulting in his demise. It's strange for fans of Aemond to ship them together as it appears that Alys is the cause of Aemond's downfall.
Hi nonnie, thanks for being polite in the asks.
First of all, Aemond was spiralling long before he met Alys. He was famously declared a kinslayer - and therefore 'cursed in the eyes of both men and gods'. Aemond's actions not only jumpstarted the civil war, but also resulted in his own king to lose their heir --- AND left his queen on the brink of madness, ultimately costing their faction a skilled dragonrider. We see Aemond making it to Harrenhal only after he becomes Prince Regent... and by then much has passed - and in many ways, the claims of his role being his brother's greatest asset was somehow looking more and more dubious.
Many fans consider one of the Alysmond characters to be a 'victim,' and that may or may not be true. However, based on our observations of the show, it's unlikely that Aemond would take her by force. We can assume that Aemond is someone who has little to no interest in taking bedmates or lovers, and on top of that, we also learn that he was a victim of unwanted sexual advances when his brother took him to a brothel for his thirteenth nameday. This "we men have no taste for depravities" Aemond doesn't scream as someone who would rape or even coerce any woman into an unwanted sexual relationship. Moreover, his distaste for Aegon's proclivities further demonstrates why he initially sees his brother to be inferior or, in his own words, 'a drunken wastrel who's never taken half a interest in his birthright'. Instead, he is the only male in the Targaryen family to show any kindness and understanding towards women in his life - namely, Alicent and Helaena. Contrary to what many accuse him on this platform, Aemond's character has not once uttered any derogatory term against his half-sister. Instead, we have only seen two men using the word 'cunt' - and those two are Daemon and Criston!
Now coming to the subject of Alys - she is introduced as a bastard of House Strong. Many fans mistakenly think that all bastards are treated the same way as Jon Snow or Strong bastards. But there is little evidence to believe that Alys was 1) treated right by other members of House Strong, or 2) even considered a kin by her own blood. Bastards were considered shameful to any great house, and they served as reminders of the lords/ladies who had broken their marital vows by pursuing intimate relationships outside their marriage. It's a massive taint on their honor. In addition to that, Alys was a wet-nurse after having stillborns - and there is no evidence to suggest that she was anything more than a servant serving under House Strong. Furthermore, she was believed by many to be a witch which will not yield many positive engagements for her in this world of Westeros.
Thirdly, coming to the question of why I find them compelling - well, LOOK AT THEM! A kinslayer and his witch queen coming together to make a bloody mess in their way. These two are every gothic fan's wet dream. A bastard witch who is reviled by her own kin AND the kinslayer with a conqueror's dragon who is feared by many around him! Most Alysmond fans see these two people - who are an unlikely couple in every other sense - come together (for even a brief period) to relieve the loneliness that has plagued them both in their lives! And if we go by Aemond's characterisation in the show, the couple could be shown as two misunderstood characters who might seek solace in each other's company.. and can find a common ground as social outcasts. (This is obviously a speculation and should not be considered as a gospel truth)
Now the world of asoiaf is riddled with many problematic ships, however I would argue that Alysmond is definitely one of the tamer ones. Alys is older while Aemond is the prince, and although some say she groomed him, it should not be forgotten that in this very patriarchal world, he holds absolute power over her. Unlike his first sexual encounter, he is not only a willing partner but is believed to be the one who had initiated it. On the other hand, I have already reiterated why I believe Aemond may not be the kind to rape her; moreover, Alys is not shown as some hapless damsel without any choice -- she becomes his closest confidante, to the point that Team Black holds her accountable for leading him to his death!
At last, although you may think Aemond lost his entire purpose after meeting Alys and ended up 'betraying' his family, a lot of fans however believe that his purpose changed from beating Rhaenyra to protecting his family - which he did by standing up to Daemon. Although Aemond's death was a great setback for the Green faction, Daemon's death likewise eliminated the biggest obstacle for his family, Alys and their unborn child.
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In the dark crypts below Winterfell, a stonemason was chiseling out his father's likeness in granite. [....] Rickon even showed them [the walders frey, big and little] the deep vaults under the earth where the stonemason was carving father's tomb. "You had no right!" Bran screamed at his brother when he heard. "That was our place, a Stark place!" -Bran I, aCoK
He did not like the crypts, had never liked the crypts, but he was no stranger to them. -Theon V, aDwD
relationship to the crypts could best exemplify theon's paradoxical position in the stark household: discomfort and familiarity all mixed together, not a stark, yet not always an outsider either. bran treats the freys' invitation to the crypts as an unheard-of sacrilege though he must have been aware that the previous winterfell ward was "no stranger to them."* theon was more a part of winterfell to bran than the frey boys could ever be, even if bran never much liked him. he'd been there since before bran was born, and was close enough to the family that his being in the crypts was unremarkable. (bran deems it not just a northern or winterfell place, mind, but a stark place.) one does not have to like extended family members or friends of the family, after all. don't we all have that uncle or cousin or sister's bf or brother's friend that we don't really care for or want to spend time with? but you still feel that person is one of you whether you want them to be or not if you attend enough family gatherings together. sometimes familiarity breeds a weird sort of acceptance.
while i do think it is important to note that theon was beaten at winterfell, which none of the starklings (including jon) ever were, and that the adults there certainly understood his position as a hostage better than bran and rickon (or sansa and arya prob) could, idt that means he was always seen as an enemy foreigner by all of them and treated accordingly. after all, even if he was meant to be punished for his father's sins if balon rebelled again, that was not really the only purpose of his being there, more a last resort. everyone was hoping and (vainly) expecting that balon would not make war on them again if his only son's life was on the line, that theon's time in winterfell would bring peace with the ironborn for the forseeable future, and that, in due time, he would end his time as a hostage not on the chopping block but as the new lord of the isles having become a friendly ally to the mainland.
that was what truly messed theon up, the insidiously damaging part of his situation: that he was always ward/fosterling as well as hostage at winterfell, contradictory as that may be. theon was never one of ned's kids, but ned "had tried to play the father from time to time", even if he mostly kept more of a distance with theon. unlike sansa with joffrey after ned's death, or theon's later captivity with the boltons, this was not blatant abuse all the time. that's what made theon want to be a stark even while he still had reason to fear for his life as a hostage, to the point that he was trying to seem like a lord like ned even when taking winterfell in balon's name. when theon expects the winterfellians to accept him as their new prince, that's obviously delusional, (bc he just became no more than an enemy foreigner by taking their home by force, promising to be a good and just lord after some of his men raped palla and while others beat poor hodor at his command!), but idt that means he totally imagined that some of these people liked him well enough beforehand, these men he'd diced, hunted, drank, and "wenched" with, and all the women he'd kissed or had sex with. they were wrong to think he was one of them in the sense of owing the starks absolute loyalty, but idt that means it was unnatural for he or any of them to sometimes feel like he was one of them all the years he was part of the winterfell household.
imo that's part of theon being foils with jon snow, the way that neither of them could ever truly be a stark yet neither was ever a total outcast with no place at winterfell either. they're stuck in a liminal status. bc that's grrm's thing more than any straight either/or categories! jon ofc did have the stark blood and had lived at winterfell since infancy, a major difference from theon, but they each had different advantages over each other while never quite seeing the areas where the other may not have had it better than them. is it coincidence that theon felt unwelcome in the crypts and jon had nightmares of wandering the crypts unwelcome by his own stark ancestors? jon's last crypt dream(s) in asos even include sounds of feasting overhead, as if he's hearing theon's dream feast of the dead**, the same dreamworld for two people dreaming months apart, each visited by bloody grey wind in turn.
*(unless robb only took theon there in the years before bran was born or was old enough to remember, ofc. but i find that explanation very unlikely, given that we know robb and jon still played down there after bran was old enough to go with them, and that theon was still familiar enough with the tombs to recognize the stone starks on sight, both with lady dustin, and before when rickard and brandon appeared in his dream feast of the dead.)
**it's commonly said that theon's feast dream was due to using ned's weirwood bed, but i think that must be a conflation with jaime's weirwood stump dream, bc i cannot find any textual ref to a weirwood bed in winterfell. people are just assuming theon must need a similar weirwood source for his dreams but if rickon could share bran's dead ned crypt dream without being a full greenseer like bran, then why can't theon (whose evilest uncle euron is likely a fallen protege of bloodraven's) have at least one magic dream without being plugged into any weirwood?
#valyrianscrolls#asoiaf meta#theon greyjoy#bran stark#jon snow#asoiaf#i am no stark#gods do not weep. or do they?#like stockholm syndrome is a problematic enough term but i just don't think any sense of it applies to theon w/ the starks#his affection for them as a child was not irrational or unnatural#and calling him turncloak or kinslayer is deeply unfair and inaccurate#but when someome has lived over half his life with you in a relatively friendly way#it is shocking if they then start killing your friends and family#(killing for no good reason in the case of brickon's presumed deaths)#(c)lsb
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These men just don't want to be around kids otherwise they would be the fun uncle, volunteer for Big Brothers and Big Sisters, be ok with dating women with kids and have a good relationship with the step kids. They just think they were entitled to biological offspring.
Amelia Hill
@byameliahillMon 28 Aug 2023 11.00 EDT
Father’s Day is dangerous for Robert Nurden. Childless not through choice but, as he puts it, “complacency, bad luck, bad judgment”, he tries to stay indoors and ignore the family celebrations outside.
But one year, he went for a walk. “I met family after family. There were children everywhere,” he remembered. “It was terrible. Just so painful. So many ambushes and triggers for my anguish.”
There is very little research into men who have not had children, although that is beginning to change. Research by Dr Robin Hadley has found that 25% of men over 42 do not have children – 5% more than women of the same age group.
Half of the men who are not fathers but wanted to be describe a huge grief and isolation from society. Almost 40% have experienced depression and a quarter feel a deep anger
Now 72, Nurden had a sheltered upbringing. Reaching adulthood, there was a lot he wanted to experience. “Having children was a very low priority. I was complacent: I just assumed it would happen,” he said.
It was not until he was in his early 40s that Nurden started to get broody. But by that point, he discovered, women of a similar age had already had children, if they were able or wanted to.
“I went into this 15-year period of not going into relationships or ending relationships quickly because I knew that person wasn’t going to want or be able to have a child with me – or that the relationship wasn’t going to be strong enough to last if we did have a child,” said Nurden.
He said high-profile older fathers breed complacency in ordinary men. “If I’m honest, even when I was in my 50s I believed that it might happen for me. But in real life, the Mick Jagger and Jon Snow-age fathers are actually very rare – and in any case, it’s medically not wise, as regards sperm quality.”
What compounded Nurden’s pain was that there was no public or private discussion about how men feel when circumstance leaves them unable to become fathers.
“There’s lots of publicity, quite rightly, about women and childlessness but men are very mute about this. Married men don’t want to hear it either: I’ve had men with children react with anger, as though they feel threatened, when I’ve tried to talk about my pain,” he said.
“I was mute too until recently, because as I aged, I found the regret grew into a great pain,” he added. “Unlike many other forms of grief, this compounds itself as it gets older: I wasn’t a father but now I’m not a grandfather. When I’m even older, I might find myself entirely alone.”
Nurden has published a book, I Always Wanted to be a Dad: Men Without Children, about his story and that of some other men. “It turns out that there is a lot of pain, regret and sadness out there,” he said.
Hadley, the researcher, is childless because although his wife had wanted children, by the time she and Hadley met, her age meant the risk of having one was too great. “I chose love but that doesn’t make the pain of not having children any less,” he said. “When a close colleague had his first child, I was so jealous that I couldn’t be in the same room as him.”
Being a father is a marker of status in many countries, said Hadley, but not in the west. “While there has recently been a lot more public discussion about how to be a good father, we still don’t have any narrative or celebration about how important it is for men to become a father in the first place,” he said.
Paul Goulden, the chair of Ageing Without Children, said that, along with the lack of public dialogue about becoming a father, he was “not convinced that there’s this Game of Thrones genetic push felt by men to have children”.
Instead, he said: “There’s this mistaken belief that men are fertile across their lifespan, so there’s no imperative to get on with it.”
That complacency persists because men without children historically have not spoken about their grief. But, Goulden said: “I hope Robert’s book will trigger a change in public dialogue around this issue. I think there’s an overwhelming sense of loneliness and fear out there about who is going to be there for these men, when they’re old and all alone.”
I wonder what their exes for these men would about them. Because the bar for Father's is so low that women showing they didn't want kids with them should really be a sign to do some soul searching.
Personal experience.......I think of my ex fiance who constantly said he wanted ro get married and have kids. However his actions said he wanted me to have the kids while he worked full time, he didn't believe in daycare so no job for me, and he would have to go to the gym almost everyday, he had a physically demanding job, and of course have his weekly card night with his buddies. And yes I stated all my objections but he had tunnel vision when it came to his fantasy family life. There's more but those were the issues relevant to this article.
#Men really being the victims#Families celebrating Father's day was ambushing him#Does he do anything for his father on Father's day or use his feels to push the emotional labour for that onto his siblings?#If childless men die alone it's because they did nothing to foster relationships with the children in their families#One on the men interviewed was economically stable in a stable marriage They could adopt#Shout out to that anon who sent this link#No one is entitled to biological children#A grown ass man was so jealous of a friend's baby he couldn't be in the same room. I hope he stays away from that family#Being a father is a marker of status in many countries said Hadley but not in the west......#.....I posted articles explaining the fatherhood bonus versus the motherhood penalty in the workforce#What are they doing with their time and energy that they have due to not having kids?#Do they volunteer within their communities?#Attend social events?#Do they travel?#Do they try to look at the upside of not having kids?#Or just brood in resentment and anger?#I get the vibe of if these guys were younger they would be posting black knight stories on 4chan directed at women with children#A journalist just recorded their statements#A therapist would ask who iscthe anger directed at?
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a love which cannot be
navigation | warnings : slight suggestiveness, time skips, jealous bran, father being arsehole, robb seems like an ass, cringey description of bran lmao, i just fucking love brans nose oml, lmk if there’s more | a/n : sorry if you guys don’t like it i just get ideas all of the time lmao, will be writing a part two :) | tags : @knight-of-flowerss | bran stark playlist
The journey to Winterfell was long and excruciating. The land you came from was nothing like Winterfell. Yours was filled with exotic animals, it rained nearly almost everyday, and the heat was so hot you could melt.
Maybe Winterfell would be a nice change, perhaps this Robb Stark man would be a good husband to you, and not beat you or be disloyal as you knew some women's husbands to be.
Your father wanted you to marry the heir to Winterfell, thinking it would strengthen your connections with the Starks.
Robb was seven years older than you. You only being 14 and him 21.
"Father, are we nearly there yet?" You asked nervously. In truth, you did not want to marry this Robb Stark, you wanted to marry someone of your own age, someone of your own choosing.
"Yes, nearly. Just another day." Your father answered in a coarse voice.
You had finally arrived in Winterfell. The Starks were all lined up. There was one that stood out from them all. You assumed he was the bastard, Jon Snow. He looked nothing like Lady Stark. He had dark brown curls, almost black and his eyes were the exact same too. He looked like he tried hard to earn a place beside his half-siblings.
Your father and Ned Stark gave a curt nod to each other, they weren't as close as Ned and King Robert.
"Lord Y/L/N." Ned started, your father replying with "Lord Stark."
As they conversated, you eyed the Stark children. The one you were betrothed to, Robb Stark, had brown curly hair and tried to look like he had authority. Then there was Sansa, with fiery red hair, icy blue eyes and a kind smile graced her soft pink lips. There was Arya, her hair was wild and her clothes were all over the place. Rickon was the youngest, with golden hair and eyes that twinned Sansa's. Lastly, your eyes travelled to...wait...that was Bran Stark?!
Seven hells, he's gorgeous...
His hair was a fair shade of brown, adorned with light curls. His eyes were dark chocolate, you could stare into forever, perhaps you could find the universe in them if you gazed long enough. His lips were a cherry red, and his cheeks sprinkled with light freckles.
Oh gods, his nose is so big...
"Y/n." Your father had been calling your name for the past five minutes. "Come and say hello."
Bran had noticed your intense gaping at him, so he gave you a good observation too. A light blush appeared across his cheeks when he realised everyone had caught you both, so he ducked his head down, but his eyes never left your figure.
The Starks of Winterfell held a feast for you and your families arrival.
The air in the room was getting too stuffy, so you left your seat next to your mother and went outside.
You walked farther away and found yourself in the training grounds, finding Jon teaching Bran a few things about swords.
"You have to hold it like this with a tight grip but not too tight-"
"Why aren't you inside with everyone else?"
They both shot round not expecting you to be there.
Bran gulped, looking at Jon, then diverting his eyes to the ground.
"Why aren't you mi'lady/mi'lord?" Jon knew Bran wouldn't speak to you until after he got over the shock of your existence.
"I don't like it in there." It felt a little bit difficult trying to make conversation with them as they were awkward people. "Also it's a little bit boring, sick of hearing about marriages."
Bran let out a little huff of amusement, he had grown jealous over Robb.
You had been staying in Winterfell and your relationship with the Stark children had grown.
You and Robb were still very distant with each other, both of you always doing your own thing. You were fine with it, as you were closer to the other other Stark boys, especially one in particular.
"Bran, stop."
Both of you were sat under a tree, eating fruit you had both picked. He had forbidden himself from climbing ever since he fell out of that tower and fell into a coma for a few months.
"I'm not doing anything."
"You're trying to hold my hand." You could feel his little finger brushing against your own on top of the fur you were sat on.
You watched as he jutted his bottom lip out of annoyance, he really, really wanted to hold your hand but didn't know how to ask.
Sighing, you took his hand into yours, relishing in the warmth it provided you.
Bran rested his head against your shoulder, his breath tickling your ear. "I wish I could hold your hand all the time."
It was like time stopped. Everything was perfect, you and bran together, but then you had realised that you hadn't been trying to stop your betrothal to Robb at all, you had Bran right beside you and you weren't snatching him up like you could've done.
"I'm going to meet you in your room tonight."
"Bran, Bran open the door." It was the middle of the night, and you kept your word, making your way to his room once you knew everyone was asleep.
You heard the handle rattle and the door opened to reveal a very tired Bran who was barely awake.
"Y/n?" He was very much awake now once he realised you were still in your night clothes. "Come on it must be freezing out there." Bran grabbed your wrist and dragged you inside, some of the candles and the fire was still lit. Was he waiting for you?
"I didn't think you'd actually come, you did take a long time." He averted his eyes, too overwhelmed to look into yours.
"I had to wait 'till midnight, my parents notice everything." You licked your lips before continuing. "My mother specially, she has noticed that we have been spending lots of time together."
Gods, please say our time doesn't have to end, Bran thought.
"My mother will mention it to my father." You took his hands in yours, noticing how clammy they were. "I shall not be separated from you, I am yours and you are mine."
"...I am yours?"
"And you are mine my love, no matter who I marry, whether it is a Dornish man, or a Northern man, you will always be the one to hold my heart."
"You will always hold my heart, no one can ever compare to you."
None of you could hold back anymore. You smashed your lips together, letting your hands roam wherever they wanted.
You opened your mouth and his tongue slid in. His hands caressed your face as yours rested on his chest.
"I don't want to go too far." Bran said, his eyes glazed like he just drunk two cups of wine.
"We won't."
In the morning before everyone woke, you snuck away, leaving Bran to sleep soundly for a few more hours, not noticing the bruise forming on your neck.
Your maids were currently dressing you, choosing what shoes you should wear, how to have your hair styled etc when your mother came in.
"Ah, there you are, your father requests your presence." She said as she crossed her hands in front of her.
"What does he want to talk with me about?" You said, turning towards her once the maids had finished.
"He-what's that?" Your mother pointed to a spot on your neck
What?
You looked down to where she was pointing, just to see a red bruise which had formed. The colour in your face drained.
"Mother-" She took you by the arm. "Come with me now, your father will want to know who did this.
Your father was extremely angry when your mother had taken you to him. He was so angry in fact, that he startled the Starks that were enjoying their peaceful morning with their delicious breakfast.
Ned quickly stood, trying to calm your father.
"My lord, I assure you we will find out which one of our children did this." His wife, Lady Catelyn tried to reassure him.
"You best do, and whoever it is, see they are punished." Your father gave a disgusted look to the Stark children and stormed out of the hall, leaving you and your mother there.
"Come, child." Your mother beckoned you away.
You gave one last look towards the Starks, holding eye contact with Bran. You mouthed 'I'm sorry' as you were gently pushed through the doors.
Catelyn paced back and forth as she looked at her children, Ned stood in the corner letting his wife do the talking.
It couldn't have been Sansa and Arya, they were with me last night, She thought.
"If I will, Mother, I was with Father last night." Robb decided to break the awkward silence. "And Jon was in the blacksmith's."
Catelyn finally stopped her pacing and turned to look at Bran who kept avoiding everyone's eyes and biting his nails.
Ned lifted himself from the wall and stood next to Catelyn. "Son,"
Bran squeezed his eyes shut feeling the pressure of everyone's gaze. "We didn't do anything!"
Ned knelt to his son's height and placed his hands on his shoulder. "Son, what happened? Tell the truth and tell it true."
Bran sighed, defeated. "All we did was kiss."
"Bran, do you realise what you've done? This could greatly affect Y/n's betrothal to Robb!" Catelyn was always the more harsher parent when it came to disciplining her children.
"Good! I hope it does!" Bran yelled back. In other instances, Bran would never talk back to his mother.
Before she could respond, a knight came through the door. "The Lord Y/L/N requests your presence."
Ned sighed and turned back to Bran. "You're a good lad Bran, we just have to hope no harsh punishment will be carried out for this."
Your father had been informed of the situation, and yet he was still infuriated.
"We are never coming back to this place again, you should teach your son some respect." That was the last thing your father said to Eddard Stark.
And it would be years before you saw Brandon Stark again.
#game of thrones#game of thrones x reader#game of thrones imagine#game of thrones fanfiction#bran stark#bran stark x reader#bran stark imagine#isaac hempstead wright x reader#isaac hempstead wright
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Lately, I noticed lots of people getting delicate around Aemond and Alys' relationship, claiming that either he raped her or she groomed him.
The book depicts the beginning of their relationship «Prince Aemond had taken her into his bed as a prize of war soon after taking Harrenhal». During the dance, terms such as "take to bed" and "spoils of war" are also used in reference to the Daemon and Nettles, and to the Jon Roxton and Sharis Footly:
1) «Daemon Targaryen had come to love the small brown bastard girl, and had taken her into his bed» but does this necessarily mean that the Demon raped Nettles, as the show has already established his pedophilic tendencies (the young girls whom were offered to him in the brothel, both Laena and Rhaenyra were groomed by him, since one was around 15-16, other never was able to form her charachter without his influence).
2)«Bold Jon Roxton became enamored of Lady Sharis after the First Battle of Tumbleton, and claimed her as a “prize of war.” When her lord husband protested, Ser Jon cut him nigh in two with Orphan-Maker. Sharis wept as he tore her gown», her reaction made it clear that she was assaulted.
Now let's look at the relationship between Alys and Aemond, the background of their characters and how their relationship was later described.
Alys Rivers was a bastard of House Strong, Grand Maester Munkun and Septon Eustace refer her as a bastard of Lord Lyonel Strong. The general attitude towards bastards stems from religious beliefs, where those born out of wedlock are seen as a weakness and dishonour of their parents, and are therefore treated with disdain. The treatment of female bastards is even worse, when in such a feudal and patriarchal society as Westeros, they have far more limited opportunities to improve their position than male ones. "A Feast for Crows" introduces a bastard girl named Falia Flowers, whose family mistreated her and forced her into servitude, and after Euron Greyjoy takes control over her castle, she willingly goes with him because she was enough of the miserable life in her parental household.
While her parentage remains dubious, her surname clearly indicates that she was the daughter of a nobleman. But unlike bastards like Jon Snow or Rhaenyra’s sons, she was a servant to her relatives and after her own children were born dead she served as a wet nurse, an occupation historically regarded as exploitative of women. Not only she was a servant, but also accused in witchcraft (whether it is true or not), it always is followed by social stigma, discrimination and marginalisation of women.
Obviously power imbalance on Aemond’s side, making her unable to groom her, and how could she do it to an ADULT. But how later their relationship was described:
-“it was Aemond alone who had become besotted with the Rivers woman, to such an extent he could not bear the thought of leaving her”;
- after the defeat at the battle by the lakeshore he almost strangled the messenger to death if not for Alys be the only one who could stop him, so he valued her enough;
- when alys was captured by sabitha frey, instead of asking for help if she was his hostage, she proclaims that she is carrying his child, and aemond later came to rescue her and she run with him;
- he brought her to battle above the god’s eye with him and kissed her as last thing he did in life;
- after his death she proclaimed herself as his widow even she would gain nothing from it, and when some man dared to insult her son with Aemond, he was immediately killed, either she ordered someone to do that or even blowed up this man’s head herself.
While show revealed Aemond had unpleasant first sexual experience and called out Aegon’s tastes as depraved, can be assumed that they will not make him force himself on Alys. So the term "prize of war" could be thrust upon them by others and should be seen as such if Alys and Aemond consider it as that.
You know, people can project all they want on Alys, Aemond and their relationship, but one thing the show has made clear is that they're 'softening' Aemond. He's not nearly a scrary brute as his book counterpart (which I still find interesting). There's more nuance to his character, and the same will go for Alys (like Alicent and Rhaenyra's characters).
Hoping that Aemond is made abusive and Alys some sadistic witch is so...boring, unoriginal, petty and bitter. There's nothing remotely new or interesting story-wise about that. But let's just wait and see.
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Hi! Were there any perspectives in the ASOIAF fandom that made your eyes roll? If there are, what made you say so? Thanks!
[mostly written in 2021, and posted very late. Sorry nonny!]
woof, this could open up a can of worms. I'm almost afraid this is a bait ask but I'm also very willing to run my mouth online about ASOIAF, and I love making fun of dumb theories, so let’s go!
Every time someone says that Jon and Dny are the song of ice and fire, my soul dies a little. Enough said.
I also hate the idea that parallels between ASOIAF history and the events of the books don’t matter. Not to state the obvious, but Westerosi history isn’t real. No part of it actually happened organically, GRRM has manufactured all of it, so everything must have been written with a purpose. I don’t buy that it’s just all world-building, because if parallels are obvious to us, they must be a thousand times more so for the man actually writing it all, and the army of editors who are probably helping him keep it straight.
There is absolutely no way that anything about Jonnel ‘One-Eye’ is a coincidence. Half-brother to Rickon Stark is obvious enough, but then we have his mother. Lynara sounds very similar to Lyanna (side note: a jonsa baby named Lynara would be adorable), but the real link is that she was born a Stark - all of the women on the family tree are listed under their maiden names. Her relation to her husband Cregan isn’t specified; it would have been so easy to have her be from another random house, or even a Karstark, yet what George wanted to convey is that Jonnel has a Stark mother, as well as a Stark father who happened to be heavily involved with the Targaryens.
Another fun thing linking Jonnel to Jon! Jon’s first relationship was with a red headed girl, who claimed that they were married because he’d stolen her. In the same conversation where she’s called half fish…
“You know nothing, Jon Snow. I’m half a fish, I’ll have you know.”
“Half fish, half goat, half horse…there’s too many halves to you, Ygritte.”
(ASOS, Jon V)
this conversation is already jonsa gospel as foreshadowing because of “half-fish”, but the horse part was always a little strange to me. As far as I remember, they didn’t have a prior conversation about her loving horses or riding particularly well, so that was seemingly out of left-field.
Well Jonnel’s second wife was a Ryswell - their sigil is a black horse’s head with a red mane.
pictured: the jonsa agenda winning again
The idea that Stannis will take Winterfell isn’t as personally annoying to me, all these dudebros have very detailed, tactics-based reasons to believe he’ll win I’m sure (something about a nightlamp?), but I just think it doesn’t do anything for the narrative, nor does it make sense with either his arc or Jon and Sansa’s.
Winning Winterfell will put Stannis in a position of strength, give him a base of operations in the North that’s not on loan from the Night’s Watch, and would probably lead to most of the Northern houses swearing allegiance to him, as Manderly has already promised to do. Why would a man in that position ever choose to burn his daughter, his only heir, alive? That is literally one of the few guaranteed book plots we have, so IMO speculation about Stannis all needs to work backwards from this end point; it’s ugly and horrible, and I don’t know if I’ll be able to stomach reading it, but it’s the only ending to his arc that makes sense.
Kinslaying reoccurs time and time again in Stannis’ arc. Kinslaying for his own personal benefit, no less. In his first appearance in ACOK, he listens to Selyse suggest that he kill Renly, then stands by whilst Melisandre kills Maester Cressen, his surrogate father. Cressen raised him and loved him like a son; yet if he had killed Melisandre instead, Stannis would have lost the power she wields for his benefit, the main reason he has a chance at the throne. Later in the book, he implicitly allows his brother to be murdered so that he could gain the Stormlords that had rallied to Renly instead of him (anyone trying to argue that the shadow wasn’t technically Stannis so technically it wasn’t kinslaying will be put in the naughty corner for excessive pedantry). In ASOS, he’s willing to sacrifice his nephew, an innocent 12 year old under his guardianship. He says it’s for the realm, for duty, but really it’s for his destiny. What is the life of a bastard boy against a kingdom so close to his grasp?
It’s escalation. Each time so far he’s had a layer of deniability, but he’s not going to have that in the end. Ordering Shireen’s death himself, murdering his daughter in some desperate bid to secure victory over the Boltons, will be the final step off the cliff. Maybe he’ll have some military victories before that, smarter people than me have no doubt discussed the parallels to the Greek myth of Agamemnon sacrificing his daughter Iphigenia, but I have no doubt Stannis’ story is headed only towards tragedy.
….Turns out that I do have a lot of feelings about Stannis. But to get back to my original point, Jon and Sansa taking Winterfell back together, travelling through the North doing the work and proving themselves as worthy rulers, makes a lot more sense for their future roles in the story than Stannis winning it all for them. It’s also much more affecting and thematically resonant, so I refuse to believe D&D entirely made up that storyline.
I also inevitably end up rolling my eyes whenever I'm bored enough to go onto r/asoiaf, there's always a bad take right on the front page. One that annoyed me enough to go into @istumpysk’s inbox and kickstart my jonsa blogging was one asking what the point of R+L=J even is, because it never amounted to anything and just muddled up J/D being “the song of ice and fire”.
While it gets so close to the point that it’s funny, there’s no way the “song” is going to boil down to a relationship, let alone JD. I would almost buy Jon and Dænerys being the song of ice and fire if Jon actually were just Ned’s bastard, all ‘ice’. Hell, if he really wanted to make a relationship the song of ice and fire, he could have cut out the middleman and made Jon a trueborn Stark from the start - make them starcrossed lovers from warring families, truly ice and truly fire. Utterly boring, but thematically coherent at least. A major point of Jon’s character is that he is both - and something a lot messier than that besides, as a bastard.
It's not all bad on r/asoiaf though, when I went back to look for that post I saw another about how the Titan of Braavos is a Pacific Rim-style mech that will come to life to fight any dragons coming to the city, a theory that I will be championing from this moment henceforth.
Wait, nevermind, in that same thread someone said that Jaehaerys is the sexiest Targ name, so r/asoiaf is immediately cancelled again. That's another fandom perspective that makes me roll my eyes, the idea that Jaehaerys is in any way an acceptable name, especially as Jon's ‘secret’ name.
This 👏 is 👏 Targaryen 👏 propaganda 👏
Just look at it!! How do you even pronounce that? The hill I will most definitely die on is that this name is ugly.
#astra rambles#me throughout this ask: AND ANOTHER THING#my own stannis take does hurt me somewhat because for a while fanon stannis was /my/ boring little man#however then I read the books and didn’t actually like him much lmao#jonsa#anti stannis baratheon#anti house targaryen#anti daenerys targaryen#anti targaryen stans#just covering my bases#meta#within all the rambling at least#jesus this is long#I cut out another terrible r/asoiaf post I was ranting about because it’s seriously been a year since I started this
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Game of Thrones Headcanons: First Impressions & Later
Featuring: Black!Female Reader/ Islander!Reader (”low-born” and from the Summer Isles)
A/N: There isn’t a lot of content for the Game of Thrones that is specific to black female readers, so I wanted to add a little contribution. I was randomly brainstorming one day, when I got the idea. I was honestly just curious about how people of Winterfell would react to a darker skinned person, since it’s so white over there. Unlike King’s Landing where all types of people come through there all the time, I imagine.
I will only hint at a possible romance with certain characters (if canonically single/unmarried) but nothing will be confirmed outright.
I will be making a few different ones, but here’s the first.
(1) The Stark Family & Loyalists
Arya Stark
She would flat out ask why your skin is the colour it is, the first time she meets you
Not to be intentionally rude, she is genuinely curious
Only after you tell her, would she remember what she was taught about people from the Summer Isles
Arya would be the first member of the Stark family to be somewhat friendly or even acknowledge your existence as someone more than just the help
She would always ask you questions about your home and how you came to be in Winterfell
She gets you to lower your guard without even realizing it because she never treats you like you’re less than. Just someone she wants to get to know.
Once she decides she likes you and enjoys your company, she never really leaves you alone after that
You’d be doing your work and helping out in the castle, but Arya will always find you and want to talk your ear off
You become like an older sister to her
Your bond becomes so close that you sometimes have to be the one to quietly tell her to settle when she’s acting up
She may get prissy about it, but she still listens to you
Your free time is spent alone with her most days, until you meet the rest of her siblings
Jon Snow
Is literally in awe when he first sees you
From there, he develops an awkward, but cute shyness around you
Gets butterflies in his stomach, but has no idea what it is or why it makes him feel so strange
Jon isn’t even aware that you spoke the Common Tongue, until he witnesses you cautioning Arya about her roughhousing one day
That’s how you meet. He finds it amusing and slightly adorable how comfortable his sister is with you
He eventually stops being shy around you and you hit it off
You then become a trio as Jon spends more time with you and Arya both
He thought he knew a little about stuff, but you’re always teaching him more
Witnessing your close relationship with Arya endears you to him all the more
You both know what it’s like to feel like an outsider
He opens up more to the point where you can actually joke and banter with one another
Gets a bit jealous when Robb appears in the picture though
Robb Stark
Has seen you around the castle before, but doesn’t really take note of you until Jon does
Jon’s interest in you is initially what sparks his
He always turns on his charm a bit more around you
He loves his brother, but can’t help but feel slightly competitive with him at times
Is always trying to impress you or defend your honour
Gets to know you more and eventually sees what has Jon so head over heels for you
Worried that you could choose Jon over him, Robb feels actually jealousy toward Jon for the first time in his life
Sansa Stark
She is mostly shocked and appalled when she first sees you in her home
She’s confused on why Winterfell has allowed strange foreign women inside
Sansa assumes people from the Isles are either thieves, savages or whores
After you official meet and learn how ill-mannered she is, you find yourself always at odds with the older Stark girl
Doesn’t understand why Arya likes you so much
She enjoys taking digs at you, which you give her the same in return
The boys enjoy your unbridled confidence when putting Sansa in her place
Arya would literally attempt to fight her big sis for you
Sansa tries to sabotage you in small ways. Particularly when it comes to your work as that would affect you the most
When Rob finds out, he steps in gets her to quit it. Their father’s name is thrown around to scare her.
She doesn’t so much as look at you anymore
Theon Greyjoy
Doesn’t care much about your existence at first
When Robb and Jon both show in interest in you, he becomes intrigued as well
Because of where you’re from, he boldly assumes you’ll sleep with him
He doesn’t outright proposition you, but he drops sleazy hints a lot
When he realizes it’s not happening, he no longer tries to keep up appearances, he resorts to taunts and off-hand remarks instead
He is surprised when you give him hell right back. Then aggravated.
Tries to get confrontational with you, but neither Jon nor Robb would be having any of it
Eventually leaves you alone once he realizes you have both Stark brother’s devoted and absolute protection
Catelyn Stark
Has always been somewhat aware of Arya’s fondness for you
She only becomes distrustful when she sees that Robb has taken a potential romantic interest in you, as Cat is naturally very protective of her oldest son when women are involved
After watching you around her kids for some time, Cat slowly begins to change her mind about you and your intentions
Finds you to be a well-read and respectful young woman
She only worries about how Robb’s affinity for you will affect his duty as her eldest son
Naturally thinks you’d do better to stay away from Jon
Ned Stark
Only becomes aware of you after seeing you talking with Jon one afternoon
He’s always assumed you didn’t speak the Common Tongue (as you like to pretend not to), but clearly that isn’t the case
Ned introduces himself to you and you freak out a bit since he’s the Lord of Winterfell and all
He insists he doesn’t want to grill you, just get to know you
After speaking, he secretly thinks you’d make a pleasant possible match for Jon, as he’s the only one of his sons you could marry without a scandal
Knows Cat would be upset though, so he never brings it up
Benjen Stark
You meet him for the first time on the night of the feast for King Robert’s visit
He sees right away just how much Jon cares for you
the fact that Robb does as well sets off alarm bells though
speaks to you briefly about your bond with both brothers
decides you’re a kind and smart young woman, and that his nephews have taste, but advises you to practice caution because every Stark has a role to play
So when Jon mentions wanting to join the Night’s Watch, he is relieved but also sad on his nephew’s behalf
He’s aware of how leaving you behind will affect him
He originally intended to warn Jon about what a potential relationship with you might mean
It seems like only he had the best likelihood of something progressing
Being a bastard, others cared slightly less about who Jon would marry
But after Jon’s sudden declaration about leaving, he warns Robb instead
At the end of the night, he kisses your hand and wishes you well
#game of thrones#game of thrones imagine#game of thrones x reader#game of thrones x black!reader#black!reader#black!fem!reader#game of thrones headcanons#game of thrones headcanon#jon snow x black!reader#got x reader#jon snow x reader#game of thrones season 1#game of thrones imagines
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in all honesty, i’ve come to appreciate jon even more with each post you make. it’s really incredible to see a different outlook on jon rather than what ever dudebros …celebrate ig? anyway, what is the scene / book that made you like jon?
Thank you! High praise indeed.
As a dog person my favorite Jon scene would have to be this:
Jon knelt, scratched his ear, and showed him the pommel of the sword. “Look. It's you.” Ghost sniffed at his carved stone likeness and tried a lick. Jon smiled. - Jon, AGoT
Jon’s second AGoT chapter where he has the farewells with Bran, Robb and Arya is when I started liking him. Just his relationship with his siblings, the way he dealt with Catelyn, making Arya happy. ACoK used to be my favorite book with Jon. I love his arc with the Freefolk and GRRM excels as a writer with his descriptions of the lands beyond the Wall. More recently, ADwD is slowly replacing ACoK because the show made such a shambles of Jon’s character and ADwD best showcases Jon Snow as a leader.
Character trait I find most attractive about Jon is his intelligence and dry sense of humor. Him treating women as his equals in patriarchal Westeros is sexy. His supporting cast also play a large role in making his story at the Wall fun and interesting, considering it’s disconnect with the Iron Throne/WOT5K political plot. Sam, Pyp, Grenn, Edd, Mormont’s Raven, Tormund, Mance, Ygritte and all the other colorful characters that make the story at the Wall and beyond the Wall.
There’s of course the ‘cool’ factor. His nicknames are badass - Lord Snow, Black Bastard, Lord Crow. He’s got a huge albino direwolf at his side, a raven on his shoulder. A Valyrian steel sword on his back. He’s a Warg. He’s the person Arya loves most and we are all waiting for them to meet and for him to muss her hair. There’s the parallel arc of leadership with Daenerys, being of similar age and mindset, the last two Targaryens. I can’t wait for Dany to know that she has family.
So yeah, looking forward to resurrected zombie Jon! He’s going to be such a mess :D
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By then Jon had pulled off the rags he'd wrapped it in. He held it out to her.
Arya's eyes went wide. Dark eyes, like his. "A sword," she said in a small, hushed breath.
The scabbard was soft grey leather, supple as sin. Jon drew out the blade slowly, so she could see the deep blue sheen of the steel. "This is no toy," he told her. "Be careful you don't cut yourself. The edges are sharp enough to shave with."
-AGOT Jon II
"When we were little, Jaime and I were so much alike that even our lord father could not tell us apart. Sometimes as a lark we would dress in each other's clothes and spend a whole day each as the other. Yet even so, when Jaime was given his first sword, there was none for me. 'What do I get?' I remember asking. We were so much alike, I could never understand why they treated us so differently.
-ACOK Sansa VII
The contrast between the two families of Houses Stark and Lannister can be seen in the stories of Cersei and Arya. Cersei and Arya despite their mutual dislike of each other, are both women/girls who aspire to move outside the established gender lines and resent the restrictions placed on them in a patriarchal society. Not to mention both having brothers who bear a close physical resemblance to them who happen to be their closest siblings.
They place an emphasis on swords. Cersei saw Jaime given a sword, but wasn’t allowed one by their father Tywin who intended to marry her off to give him royal grandchildren. For Arya, unlike Cersei, she was not just given the sword by her brother Jon, but actually encouraged by her father by hiring a swords master to train her.
Cersei associates the sword with the agency, acknowledgement and power she was denied as a result of her being a woman feeling ”I should have had the sword, not him.” Arya’s sword to her “was Winterfell's grey walls, and the laughter of its people. Needle was the summer snows, Old Nan's stories, the heart tree with its red leaves and scary face, the warm earthy smell of the glass gardens, the sound of the north wind rattling the shutters of her room. Needle was Jon Snow's smile.” Needle was her identity and a reminder of the family and home she came from. Cersei’s relationship with the sword is from a place of negativity while for Arya it is from a place of positivity.
Oh, for a sword and the skill to wield it. She had a warrior's heart, but the gods in their blind malice had given her the feeble body of a woman.
-ADWD, Cersei II
Cersei ultimately ends up internalizing her society’s misogyny, and wants to be the patriarch, being the one who doles out the abuse. Arya does have times where she wishes she wasn’t helpless or had more ability, but she doesn’t disdain her gender nor associate femininity with weakness the way Cersei does.
Cersei and Arya’s relationship with swords is shaped by their familial relationships. Both chafed at the restrictions of their gender, but the difference is how their families responded to it. Jon, being a bastard, was sympathetic and Ned was understanding as well, giving her a sword and encouragement, resulting in the sword Needle becoming associated with her family in her mind. Cersei having gotten no such support in her house, ended up associating the sword with the things denied to her by the men in her family from her father to Robert.
The swords end up speaking to the contrast between environments fostered by the patriarchs of Houses Stark and Lannister with Ned’s success and Tywin’s failure.
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According to Kit, he had relationship with dominant women(Ygritte and Dany) which is defined by his relationship with Cat who was 'horrible' to him. Shouldn't he seek relationship with a woman who validates him and soft towards him regardless of his name and title. Someone who understands him and not being abusive. Why did he get in relationship with Dany if he firsthand saw how horrible she is?
As agentrouka-blog said wrt Jon and romance, “we seek the love we think we deserve”. Jon grew up feeling insecure about his illegitimate status, and how each victory he had was tempered by suspicion that he was trying to usurp his true born siblings. He didn’t have the secure future the Stark kids did. He wanted Winterfell, the only home he ever knew, but that’s filled with shame because to get it something would have to happen to his siblings. In the books there are passages indicate he does want a woman who validates him, who he can give flowers, show Winterfell, sings, is kind to children, and understands the importance of rebuilding the family lost to him; he projects those desires onto Ÿgritte (who hates castles, hot water, flowers) and even to Val (who is against settling down in a castle with a man and outright says she’s not a Southron lady). While the show softened Y/J into more of a romance, it still wasn’t a relationship Jon chose, and neither was Däny (summoning him to her cabin, and he didn’t really get to pursue a relationship of his own volition. But even if he was, it’s possible due to his upbringing he’d feel that the beautiful kind highborn lady is out of reach for him, and she’d have to make the first move to tell him his feelings aren’t wrong.
Asking me to find logic in S7&8 GOT is like asking me to fairly assess House Tàrgaryen: I’m approaching it from a negative lens, so any conclusions I make are colored by that. In 8.1, Jon explains to Sansa that he brought 2 dragons and an army to Winterfell with Dány, which should be instrumental in fighting the Others. Davos makes a joke about that. In 7.6 he was formal and refused to tell Dány what had happened to him that he’d gotten apparently fatal scars. In 8.4 he’d tried to suck up to her when she was ready to burn KL out of revenge, but when he wouldn’t reciprocate, she decided to rule through fear rather than love. Basically, there’s very little romance in Shownerys. As a fan of Jon Snow, I hated how his character was warped to even feign interest in her. And even though I’m not a Dàny fan, that she’d be interested in this awkward, brusque, wouldbe rival who is basically a stranger, seems insulting to what she’s gone through as well (he’s boring like Quentyn, and book!Dány is already fearful of betrayals…she’s not letting a stranger come that close).
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Hi! I was wondering if you saw Kit’s recent Q&A session about Jon Snow? He made some really interesting comments that I appreciate him finally starting to feel safe about coming out in support of Jon’s actions and mindset. One of things I found interesting, that I think you have touched on well, is Jon’s relationships with women. In a nut shell that he’s drawn to abusive relationship dynamics because of his childhood with Catlyn. Would love to hear your thoughts and analysis.
Hey, Anon! =) Actually, I had no idea until you just told me. I feel horrible that I had no idea a convention was happening. That is definitely one I might try out in the future! So thank you for letting me know about it.
The questions were great and Kit's answers were very well thought out, and really gave us a glimpse into how he works as an actor and how he approaches his career and life as well. So I completely agree with you! It was nice to see him starting to finally feel comfortable enough to be honest with his answers about the show, no matter what people might say. As soon as he said he felt it was right when he saw that Jon was going to kill Dany, I literally clapped and went "Say it a little louder for the Dany/Jonerys stans in the back! Someone was paying attention in class!" And it gave me even more respect for him, not only for being able to say that in that room (and the ensuing boos in the mix of reactions was ridiculous but predictable) but also because he gets it. Like he said, Dany gave Jon no other choice realistically; he had to do it. I also appreciated what he said about Jon, Arya, and the NK. I felt he was very respectful to the show but still shared his opinion, while making sure to state that this was his own personal feeling on it. A lot of good stuff.
Before I get to the Catelyn topic, I will mention that the one answer I sort of didn't agree with was his answer about Jon loving Dany. And that's not because it wasn't what I wanted to hear but because that's not the story the show is telling up until Dany's death in 8x06. That wasn't in the final product that made it to air. Tbf to Kit, perhaps he knows something we don't whether that be through conversations with D&D, GRRM, or what the scripts originally stated in a certain draft. Jon fiercely loving Dany or however he phrased it does not match up to what we were shown on screen. But I do believe when the final season aired, Kit hadn't seen it yet. So it's possible, in post production, several changes happened (like certain scenes getting cut, certain takes used instead, etc.) that neither he, Emilia, nor any of the cast members had seen. But I'm pretty sure he implied he has seen it by now so I'm not quite sure, based on his own reasoning, how he still feels Jon loved Dany. But then again, and also tbf to him again, he did not say how Jon loved Dany and he did not directly answer the relation/incest portion of the question. It's obvious in the show that Jon cared for Dany as family and he may have had some feelings for Dany herself, but the show purposely makes sure to focus on the physical with them, never the emotional. So for me, when he talks about how Jon never got time to focus on finding out who he is, this again lines up better to the show/story we got than the one D&D/the cast/HBO/promo was trying to sell us at the time.
Now this leads into the Catelyn comment he made. I found that particular viewpoint interesting but I didn't lend it a lot of weight if that makes sense? Because he kind of mentions it off the cuff in relation to him thinking about it the night prior which makes complete sense that he would be thinking "what if I get asked about Dany? What do I say?" and that leading to that whole thought track. But while I found this amusing as a mention, I not only didn't take it seriously but I also tend to disagree with that take. Yes, Catelyn's treatment of Jon as a child was horrible, and like with any type of trauma, this can be impactful on a person in ways that they don't always know. But for him to seek it out subconsciously or even purposefully? No, I disagree.
Speaking purely from the show perspective, Ygritte challenges him and she can be dominating like Kit says, but she doesn't mistreat him the way Catelyn does. Even when she gets angry at his betrayal and shoots him full of arrows, she doesn't mistreat him. If anything, she proves to be his ally in many ways and even accepts him for who he is (not only as a crow but also knowing that he's not really a turncoat). She wants him for him because she loves him, and every one of her actions speaks to that fact. So that blows the Catelyn thing out of the water for Ygritte.
As for Dany, no matter what Kit's personal opinion might be on the Jon's love for her aspect, she was no good for Jon. And the show made sure to tell that to the viewers in each episode and even Kit himself said "She turns a corner and doesn't really leave any room for him to continue being with her". We all knew that had Dany survived, Jon was going to become her latest barbecue grill project. Dany was abusive to him, she abused the authority she had over him, and she definitely abused the power dynamics between them. And on top of that, she didn't want Jon to be who he was, not just his Targaryen heritage but also being King in the North, a Stark but not in name, all of it. She wouldn't accept him for who he was and wanted him to stay a bastard, same as Catelyn when he was a boy, and stay subservient to her. So for Jon to go from Point A (Catelyn) to Point B (Ygritte) back to Point A again (Dany), speaking strictly from character development's sake, this doesn't jive. Why would Jon go back to that and want to be subject to that type of cruelty (and this time way worse imho) after he broke away from it and not only did he start to get to know himself as a person and what he stood for, but also after he had a different type of relationship altogether? Story wise this doesn't make sense, and that's even before we look at the story the show actually ended up telling. (and this is why Sansa as a potential romantic interest for Jon would have made so much sense imho, she's set up as Catelyn 2.0 in framing but she's not actually Catelyn and she echoes more closely to Ygritte than Dany ever did like some Jonerys stans try to claim; she accepted Jon for who he was & wanted him for him - she should have been Point C imho)
I'm not saying Jon wasn't traumatized by Catelyn's treatment; I believe he was. But in telling this linear narrative that the show did, and comparing it to other characters and how they were developed, it wouldn't make sense for Jon to go back to this type of woman/treatment as Kit's comment infers. So that's why I don't give any weight to it: it doesn't make sense speaking from character development, it doesn't jive with the story we saw, and the way Kit said it was more conversational than it was a full-on answer.
I hope I was able to answer your question thoroughly, Anon! Again, thank you for telling me about the con. =) I still have to check out Kit's general panel. I hope you have a wonderful rest of your evening!!! <3
#ask#ask answered#jon snow#jonsnowask#gotask#got#game of thrones#anti jonerys#due to my reply#jonsa mention in my reply#dany critical#catelyn critical#just putting those tags to be safe#kit harington#got convention
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First Look of Game of Thrones
Let's give it a break from Buffy. Today I finally finished the world's most popular Tv series, The Game of Thrones. I was watching when it was filming then I got a spoiler about Jon snow death.
I was watching the news and drinking my morning coffee and the newsreader said that Jon Snow did not die. I could have accepted a spoiler from my friends but I got so angry how could I get a spoiler from the morning news?
However, I finally finished. It was not my favorite TV series so probably that's why it took me that long to start again.
I want to start with the characters which I loved from the start. The first one is Daenerys Targaryen. She was the strong women character in the series. She was trying to protect her people and build a new World. She freed slaves, destroyed slavery, and changed the system with that. Most of the moments which make me excited were with Dany and with her dragons.
The second one is Jon Snow. The bastard son of Ned Stark. He was playing a really important role from the start with Night Watch. All the things which are happened in the North go through with him. I believe his love for a wildling girl touched our hearts. I can say that he could be the one character that did not change in all 8 seasons. I always tried to do the right thing and help people.
The third one is Arya Stark. Even when she was a young girl, she was different. Her dream of being a knight was interesting to me. She was young but a strong girl other than her older sister Sansa. I can say that the changes in Arya were impressive. How she grew up and became an assassin? How she got through all the things she lived? In the end, she became my favorite character. Since the writer changes Dany's character in a bad way.
The fourth one is Tyrion Lannister. He never could have been a member of the family. He was an outsider cuz he was a dwarf. He killed his mother. Because of that his father and sister always hated him except Jamie. Tyrion's strength was his brain. He was not a fighter but he was an intelligent man and also funny.
I never liked Cersei. She was the most hateful and malevolent character in the series. Most of the malevolent characters played for a few seasons and then died. But Cersei was on the game to the end. At least Jaime (he should have stayed with Brienne) was not a bad person when he was not with Cersei. All the things he did he did for love. Even the love which they have is sick full. I am wondering how the children who have got that health? This unhealthy relationship looks like affected only Joffrey's discussing characters. I was counting the episode to see his death. I wish his death were more painful. I also did not like Cersei's death too. But the best way to punish her was to kill her children and all of her children died.
There is a lot of character in all seasons. So if I go for all of them it will take a lot of time. Maybe I can separate it. Just want to tell you that the final episode disappointed me. Why Jon Show killed Daenerys Targaryen? Was she mad like her father all the time or has she gone mad in the last season? Cuz I could not catch it. She helped the North and wanted to save the people there. Suddenly, she destroyed the capital. All the innocent people with it. She could just destroy the weapon and the Cersie with the castle. How and why she changed? Maybe you can help me to understand. Please write your ideas. And I am wondering about Dany in the books. How was she?
I will continue with the other characters in my second post. Until then take care.
ZmZm
#game of thrones#jon snow#jon x daenerys#daenerys targaryen#arya stark#tyrion lannister#jaime lannister#cersie lannister
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I can’t draw humans for shit so here is my Warden from my current playthrough, made with picrew! Below I write about her relationships with her companions, though nobody asked - enjoy if you wish! Reminder that these are JANESSA’S opinions - a fictional character’s opinions - and not necessarily mine!
If anyone is interested in her relationships with the Awakening crew, let me know!
*I imagine her with a rounder face, darker brown hair, and more defined curls.
Janessa Cousland - Rogue (Duelist)
LELIANA: Janessa is bi and was attracted to Alistair initially, but found him to be immature and whiny (cue Jon Snow “I dunt wunt et!”). He refused to make, like, ANY decisions, which rubbed her the wrong way. Throughout her journey, and especially during the Urn of Sacred Ashes quest and Arl Eamon’s miraculous recovery, Janessa developed a deeper faith, which she loved discussing with Leliana. It was those deep, philosophical conversations that really started their connection. Janessa had pushed back her attractive to women for so long because of pressure from her parents to marry a nobleman. That part of her is finally free to be true to herself.
ALISTAIR: Alistair became a best friend to Janessa, part of her new family. Heartcrushingly, due to fear of magic and distrust of Morrigan after finding out that she knew the Grey Warden secret the whole time, Janessa refused the Dark Ritual. Having Alistair sacrifice himself hurt me sO BAD but it’s role playing, and Janessa wasn’t willing to risk an unknown magic when the fate of the world hung in the balance. She gained a huge amount of respect for him upon his death and sometimes regrets not stepping forward and doing it herself - but she knows that this was Alistair’s choice and that he was proud to do it.
MORRIGAN: Janessa and Morrigan got along better than I would have expected, but there was a mutual “I respect another strong independent woman when I see one” vibe between them. Upon Morrigan’s revelation and betrayal, however, Janessa decided Morrigan was a bitch. (I personally love Morrigan and find her to be a fascinating character)!
WYNNE: Janessa respects Wynne but finds that she reminds her of the Chantry sisters who annoyed her so much growing up. Still, as her faith evolves, she finds herself talking to Wynne more and seeking her wisdom. She is freaked out by the spirit possession though. It takes her awhile to fully trust Wynne after learning that she’s a Diet Abomination.
ZEVRAN: She could take him or leave him honestly lol I rarely brought him with me in this playthrough. They got along but there was nothing special there. Sorry Zev!
OGHREN: Oghren is a great guy to have around, tactically speaking - let him take all the hits - but that’s the only thing Janessa finds him good for!
STEN: There is honestly so much mutual respect here. Sten is like a proud but weird uncle to her. They aren’t super close but know that they can 100% rely on one another.
SHALE: GOD I LOVE SHALE! So does Janessa. She finds her so strange, but such a breath of fresh air. She loves going along with Shale’s humor (though sometimes she’s unsure if it’s really humor!).
DOG: Janessa named her dog Bryce, after her father. She did this as a prank when she was a younger teen (like 14; she’s 18 at the start of Origins) so she could be like “yeah Bryce shat in the kitchens again” and “Bryce ate an entire pork roast, vomited it, then ate it again.”
If you have any questions that would help me flesh her out as a character more, let me know!
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I posted 1,281 times in 2022
That's 181 more posts than 2021!
210 posts created (16%)
1,071 posts reblogged (84%)
Blogs I reblogged the most:
@aimmyarrowshigh
@amarguerite
@seananmcguire
@girlwithakiwi
@dduane
I tagged 1,273 of my posts in 2022
Only 1% of my posts had no tags
#the queue station - 662 posts
#chase writes things - 188 posts
#the silhouette of a single memory - 143 posts
#jonerys - 83 posts
#chase answers - 74 posts
#jonerys fanfic - 70 posts
#tiktok - 51 posts
#jonerys au - 47 posts
#game of thrones - 45 posts
#jon snow - 42 posts
Longest Tag: 139 characters
#just because many of the classics that are taught in school are very white and european or sad american male writer with a drinking problem
My Top Posts in 2022:
#5
Chapters: 71/71 (COMPLETE)
Fandom: Game of Thrones (TV); A Song of Ice and Fire - George R. R. Martin
Relationships: Jon Snow/Daenerys Targaryen
Summary: "Jon is their catspaw because above all things he is an honorable man. And in his entire life, he has never wanted to be anything other than that damnable virtue as much as he wants it now."
When Jon Snow enters the throne room, the ruins of King's Landing still smoke on the pyre of conquest and destruction. When he confronts Daenerys Targaryen beneath the suffocating shadow of the Iron Throne, the slaughtered corpses of men, women, and children still soundlessly howl in terror and agony. This is the price of the dragon queen's crown and he has followed her now to be judge, jury, and executioner, to end the nightmare, to end the madness, once and for all.
But for players of a different game, a loss is nothing but victory postponed—and there is always one more play, one more chance, to turn a war in their favor.
Or: Jon doesn't kill Daenerys and everything they know about the Long Night changes. [COMPLETE]
4/6/22 UPDATE: Spelling/grammar/clarity edits of this fic are complete. I now consider this fic completely finished. If you are a previous reader, you may have noticed that the word count increased by 10,000 words. Please note that nothing in the plot changed. I only expanded a couple of scenes and expounded on a few things for clarity.
30 notes - Posted April 6, 2022
#4
Chapters: 14/19
Fandom: Game of Thrones (TV); A Song of Ice and Fire - George R. R. Martin
Relationships: Jon Snow/Daenerys Targaryen
Summary:
And then he whispers a single name into her hair. It is warm, like the memory of home and dark nights before a fire, and as sweet as treacle, sugar and butterscotch and promises she cannot remember. And she thinks, as she presses him into a fervent and hungry kiss, chasing the letters and the cadence and the brogue with her tongue, it should not sound so familiar.
“Dany”.
He has called her “Dany”.
But…
That isn’t her name.
•
A one-night stand ends up being a whole goddamned mess and two people whose names are certainly (probably) not Daenerys Targaryen or Jon Snow find themselves untangling strange dreams of war and betrayal and lives lost, lived, and forgotten.
31 notes - Posted October 4, 2022
#3
listen 😂😂😂
43 notes - Posted October 19, 2022
#2
this dude is literally the living, breathing embodiment of :3 and this whole ass family is what happens when you give a bunch of theater kids some dragons
57 notes - Posted October 15, 2022
My #1 post of 2022
See the full post
124 notes - Posted June 4, 2022
Get your Tumblr 2022 Year in Review →
#tumblr2022#year in review#my 2022 tumblr year in review#your tumblr year in review#the year i accidentally became jonerys trash#i’m sorry y’all
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