Just remembered that my first real exposure to Simpsons episodes (as opposed to knowing who they were via cultural osmosis) was catching reruns of Season 21 (Everyman, the prankster before Bart, and the Olympic pin based on Homer's face) and roughly half of the Movie when that was running on constant rotation on FX, which is part of the reason I get weirded out by the whole "No good episodes after season 8!!!" argument cause like. Yeah the early years are amazing but people gotta give the later ones a try as well (the "THANK youuuuu; I repeat, THANK youuuuuu; thank you!" joke from the Everyman joke is something I constantly have in my brain)

We must have been tuning in around the same time, “The Debarted” is one of my favorite episodes (not S21 but close enough). That said, I have a Sideshow Bob-type personal grudge against the movie. #NotMyHomer

Billy Joel songs as mash characters?

Darling this is not a simple question. This is a subject I have been pondering for some time.

Hawkeye - I Go to Extremes

Sometimes I'm tired, sometimes I'm shot Sometimes I don't know how much more I got Maybe I'm headed over the hill Maybe I set myself up for the kill Tell me, how much do you think you can take Until the heart in you is starting to break? Sometimes it feels like it will

This is hard because, a lot of songs fit him. I have, previously, associated Hawkeye with Tomorrow Is Today, Pressure, and Everybody Loves You Now. I also think there's something there for Code of Silence (which could also fit other characters, I considered it for Charles; it's kind of an all-purpose trauma song). I wanted to do something different, which is why I picked this one. I don't see it as being about mood swings, despite the chorus, but the verses really sound like Hawkeye to me. It's that feeling of constantly fighting something and being at a breaking point.

Tomorrow is Today Pressure Everybody Loves You Now

Trapper - Only the Good Die Young

You mighta heard I run with a dangerous crowd We ain't too pretty, we ain't too proud We might be laughing a bit too loud Aw, but that never hurt no one

Look, I know it's basic, but it fits. The melody and beat fit him too! He's might seem a little rough but he has a heart of gold and wants to have a good time! And he's a threat to good Catholic girls everywhere.

Henry - Big Man on Mulberry Street

Why can't I cool out? Why don't I button my lip? Why do I lash out? Why is it I always shoot from the hip?

It's just a vibe! I think the melody and lyrics both fit his kind of anxious everyman thing.

Radar - Get It Right the First Time

I'm not much good at conversation I was never to smooth at comin' on real strong If all it takes is inspiration Then I might have just what it takes If I don't make no bad mistakes and I get it right the first time That's the main thing

The lyrics fit Radar's interest in romance, but the melody as well as parts of the chorus also remind me of how seriously he takes his job as clerk and how busy he always is. Sexually the first time did not last for Radar, but you know.

Margaret - She's Always a Woman

Oh, she takes care of herself, she can wait if she wants She's ahead of her time Oh, and she never gives out and she never gives in She just changes her mind

Look, I know. But it's perfect. It's about a woman in a male-dominated field who was widely hated for being too assertive and generally for misogynistic reasons. She's all these things, but she's still a woman. Plus the vaguely negative vibe to it fits Margaret too.

Frank - Why Judy Why

I never thought that I would need, need a friend But I did, in the end Tell me why, Judy, why

I really puzzled over this one, but I couldn't think of any Frank songs that summed up his whole character, so I chose one that I thought fit a specific part of his story. I don't think Frank ever anticipated Margaret would actually leave him, and when it happens, he's crushed. He does need a friend and he doesn't have any. "Judy" could be Hawkeye and Trapper or BJ, or it could be his mom, depending on the episode. I chose to focus on pathetic Frank, but while he's with Margaret, Blonde Over Blue fits as well. There's also a demo called The End of the World that I like to associate with Frank's fears of Louise becoming her own person.

Klinger - You May Be Right

You may be right I may be crazy Oh, but it just may be a lunatic you're looking for It's too late to fight It's too late to change me

Choosing a song for him was so hard! I think the general vibe of this one fits with the melody and all. Obviously "I may be crazy" is very Klinger but I also think "don't try to change me" conveys his absolutely refusal to be turned into a killer. I also like She's Right On Time as a Klinger/Soon-Lee song.

Mulcahy - All About Soul

This life isn't fair It's gonna get dark, it's gonna get cold You've got to get tough, but that ain't enough It's all about soul

It's a romantic song, but you don't have to take it that way, and I think it describes Mulcahy's role in the group well. They need more than toughness and more than medical skill. They need a heart, someone who can look after their souls.

BJ - Temptation

'Cause I know what all of my friends say There's a danger in wanting too much But she's such a temptation

It's about his baby daughter. It's about overwhelming love, but it conveys a bit of a dark side, too. Being in Korea is even more painful because he loves his daughter so much, so I think that desperation and fear of how strong those feelings are suit BJ well.

Potter - Shades of Grey

Once there were trenches and walls And one point of every view Fight 'til the other man falls Kill him before he kills you These days the edges are blurred I'm old and tired of war I hear the other man's words I'm not that sure anymore

It just so perfectly encapsulates Potter's changing feelings about war as a career soldier who once believed in the romance of it. Billy Joel also has a demo called The Siegfried Line that fits Potter very well because it's about WWII.

Charles - Where's the Orchestra

After all, this is my big night on the town My introduction to the theatre crowd I assumed that the show would have a song So I was wrong

I assigned this to him once a while ago and I'm glad I remembered because it's perfect for him. The melancholy melody... the feeling of getting/having everything you want but something not being right... being out of place in the place you're supposed to fit... and the lyrics are perfect for him because of his love of music and experience with the musicians.

As a bonus, I've previously associated This Is the Time and Famous Last Words with the entire cast!

This Is the Time Famous Last Words

Goodnight Saigon reminds me of MASH a lot too, with the choppers and some of the lyrics, but it's very anchored to Vietnam. And of course I'd be remiss if I didn't mention his two songs that actually reference the Korean War directly, We Didn't Start the Fire and Leningrad.

Thoughts of a former Zuko stan

This may come as a surprise, but I used to be a huge fan of Zuko back when Avatar first aired. To make a long story short, I identified with Zuko's redemption arc and struggles very, very strongly as I was also going through my own sort of redemption at the time. I was devastated when he joined Azula in BSS, because it felt like I was hopeless.

On that note, I also viewed Azula the same way Zuko did, in a way. She represented all the terrible, snobby people who had been tormenting me and lording their power and status over me. While on some level I thought she was cool, I could not really get over how the way she treated others, especially Zuko, reminded me of how I was treated, and so I also kind of hated her.

It has been a long time since then, however. I don't really identify with Zuko anymore, at least not nearly as strongly. I do, however, like Azula now after a long time of just thinking about how my own bias and the show itself made me hate her, and if she really deserved that.

I think it was an entry on TVTropes that described how if Azula was as evil as Ozai, she would not have broken down like she did, because she would not have been so hurt by her friends' betrayals. From there I ended up reading more analyses on Azula's character from her fans, not the ones who just liked her for being a cool, evil badass, but the fans who identified with her on a level I had not, fans who in some way admired her for being such a talented young woman, and how they were saddened by her fall.

And as weird as it is, the artwork in The Search and Smoke and Shadow by Guri Hiru really helped turn me. As troublesome and as badly handed Azula was in the comics, her expressions while she was under stress and hallucinating really got to me. These days, I'm starting to understand the potential mental illnesses I've suffered in secret over the years, and I just can't help but want to see Azula saved from that kind of suffering.

All that said, I'd like to lay out all of what I used to believe about Zuko and Azula when I first watched the show, and how my opinion has changed since.

To sum it all up, I basically saw Azula as having much more agency than she actually had, and I identified too much with Zuko to really see his own flaws. I thought that Zuko was a completely good kid who was only doing bad things because Ozai messed him up, and I assumed Azula was bad all on her own without being influenced by Ozai. I thought that she had Ozai's attention and approval because she was naturally a bad kid, rather than that behavior being fostered by him.

I used to think that Azula's downfall was karmic justice, and meant to contrast with Zuko's growth, but I can't call it karmic if she had little choice. I used to see her pragmatism as another facet of how dangerous she was, rather than as a sign of restraint and a sign she had her own lines she didn't cross. I used to think that Azula needed to be humbled and kicked off her high horse, that she was an elitist snob and Zuko was the everyman underdog that could prove otherwise. I see now that Zuko, while in a tough spot, was still mostly a privileged royal compared to Aang, Katara, and Sokka for most of the series.

I have a lot of specific takes, and maybe I'll list them later as I think of them, but I think you get the idea. I might go through each episode to help me remember what my old opinions were.

Did you ever watch Buffy? The first episode where Anya was introduced was titled "The Wish" and all I can think about is if Scott McCall had ever run into a pure Sidhe where they offered him a wish. Instead of, "I wish Buffy had never come to Sunnydale." It would be more, "I wish I was never bitten to become a werewolf." But just like all feaye tricks, the outcome is more, his Dad ended up with primary custody rather than his Mom and he was forced to leave BH. And then Stiles ended up more friends with Heather and others. And while Scott's life is worse, when he tracks down the others he finds all of theirs are greatly improved.

I think about it a lot and how Scott never really dealt with the consequences of any of his actions, everyone else did, and how an episode or mini-arc could have fixed a flaw in the show's design. I mean, we were already dealing with a lot of Celtic lore, why not someone from the Sidhe courts?

I have no idea why this took me so long to answer, so apologies for that. <3 I did watch buffy! I've seen all of it, and all of Angel as well. XD

I remember 'The Wish' episode, and whoooo boy it gave me chills. I loved how big the butterfly effect was, how something that seemed so small, something that Genuinely seemed to be the cause of a lot of problems in Sunnydale, ended up being so important to how things had progressed. Because, yeah, you would think Buffy not coming to Sunnydale would be a Good Thing, right? Sunnydale didn't have all of these insane issues before she arrived. It was quiet, and nothing big or scary ever happened. Her arrival matches perfectly with when everything started going absolutely nuts, so whatever selfish ideas Cordelia had, her thought that Buffy not coming to Sunnydale would be a good thing, makes sense. Except that, as she finds out, she's entirely wrong. Buffy's arrival was a lucky coincidence, or fate, whatever your taste leans toward. She showed up right as things started going nuts, and she kept it from going SO MUCH MORE NUTS.

Now, moving on to TW, it is a fascinating mix of being the Exact same situation, and the exact Opposite. I'll add a Read More, cus' holy god is this a lot of Rambling.

Because Scott wishing not to have been bitten...yeah, the bite Did improve things. But it improved things for him. He would absolutely regret making the wish, just like Cordelia did, because he would realize how many good things the bite had brought with it. BUT, conversely, he would have to realize how many good things the bite had brought for him, not for other people, and how their lives either wouldn't have been affect, or might've even Improved without him being bitten. Without the bite, Scott wouldn't have gotten on first line, period. His health issues made very clear in the five minutes he had them that any kind of stamina based sport was just out of the question for him. If he is unable to walk through the woods at a moderate pace without needing to grab his inhaler and stop against a tree, he just plain cannot play lacrosse for two or three hours of running at high speeds and working a bunch of muscles in his upper body. He likely wouldn't have gone out with Allison, because he would have no convenient way to get her attention. Furthermore, he wouldn't have the extra senses that both impressed her on the lacrosse field, and told him about her 'family dinner' the night of Lydia's party. (I've discussed this before, but... While it's true, Allison would have still brought him the dog; that dog would likely have attacked him, and his chances with her would have been shot in the foot when they both got in massive trouble and he likely had to go to the ER for stitches or something. Without Allison or first line, he wouldn't have started hanging out with the 'cool kids,' and quite frankly, wouldn't have had anyone to help him study for the classes he was struggling with. It's true that he also wouldn't have had werewolf things to worry about, or even a girlfriend to distract him from homework, so maybe that wouldn't have been such a huge issue, but still.

If we look at other people's lives and how They would have been affected by Scott not getting the bite...well, let's talk about that.

Stiles didn't get on first line because of Scott, or because of a werewolf bite. Or even because of the werewolf bullshittery occurring in town. He was put on first line because of his abilities, and even after being taken OFF first line for missing the game, he was put Right onto the field in the next game, chosen OVER other players who were perfectly viable options. Which means, he still would've ended up on first line. Allison wasn't interested in dating before she met Scott, and part of her draw to him was based on how 'different' he was. He knew things she didn't know how he could know, he had a weird ability to calm a furious, injured dog, and he had charisma that was ALSO gained from the bite, since being on first line made Scott Much more self-confident. If she didn't end up dating him, it's likely she wouldn't have dated at all. Which would mean no hiding from her parents, no strange conflicts of interest, AND, interestingly enough --depending on her involvement in the murders, etc that would still be occurring in town--no night in the school that would scare her bad enough to ask Kate for extra help and tip her headfirst into hunter training. AND, even if she DID still end up getting those lessons from Kate? There would be no bitterness to fuel her behavior at the end of season 1.

Allison was Traumatized after Kate showed her Derek on the grate. She was horrified, and didn't know what to do about it, and while we can ramble all we want about the morality of her not confronting her family (whom she's just discovered is willing to electrocute people) about it, the fact is that she pushed the thoughts aside to stop freaking out and went to that dance. Where she found out Scott was a werewolf, and was So fucking Betrayed that she was willing to help Kate catch him and Derek. No Scott, no betrayal, no willingness to help Kate recapture the miserable man who'd been chained up in a basement.

If we go back to that specific night, and try to unfold the events from there if Scott hadn't been bitten, things get a little complicated, but I'll take a few artistic liberties. Scott isn't bitten. Presumably, he just happens to get out of the woods in time, or he gets caught with Stiles by the sheriff, or doesn't go to the woods in the first place. These all change the possible outcomes of that night. If he hadn't gone in the first place, and Stiles went alone, would he have been bitten instead? Would Scott have been dragged into all of this anyway, but without the protection and boost of being a werewolf and cured of his asthma? If he weren't the one bitten, and he saw everything Stiles gained from it, would he still have such a hatred for the bite? Or would he want it, like Erica did, to cure him and make him powerful and cool? But, let's assume Stiles doesn't get bitten either. The second half of Laura's body still hasn't been found, and Stiles has no reason to fear running back into the preserve the next day, and no real punishment from his father as far as we can tell. So, does he go back to look again? If he did, he would run into Derek, because Derek would still be there after retrieving Laura's body himself. He would see Derek and still recognize him, and from there, things might spiral, still involving Stiles in the supernatural, and it's likely Stiles would try to involve Scott, and Again we get hit with "Would Scott want the bite, if he hadn't gotten forcibly bitten in the first place?" The answer is probably yes. He wanted to be cool, and popular, and on the lacrosse team. He wanted everything being a werewolf gave him. BUT if we're looking at this wish as similar to "The Wish," then no matter what, Scott won't be bitten. He'll be transported to a new world where it just never happened, and he'll be human, and forced to watch everyone around him be just plain different. Scott not being bitten would isolate him from Stiles, if Stiles got involved in the spn anyway. We SAW how Stiles cut off his other friends once the spn starting getting in the way. He and Harley? We have no clue how close they were. They were close enough for her to tease him about his crush on Lydia, for her to wander up comfortably to the locker and talk to them. And he cut her off as soon as the werewolf stuff hit. What if he cut Scott off? To protect him, if nothing else, like he did his own father. Once he realized the danger involved, I doubt he would be willing to put Scott in harm's way.

So, Scott would not only lose first line, lose his girlfriend, lose his popularity, lose his health and strength and heightened abilities, lose his 'importance' to the goings-on of Beacon Hills, but he would also lose Stiles, who seems to have been his only friend, unless he also had a relationship with Harley.

Okay, I've rambled enough about the what if's, so let's talk about the Reason why this wish would go so badly for Scott, in such a different way than it went for Cordelia. Cordelia, first off, wished that someone Else would not have/do something, rather than wishing for herself not to have done something. She watches how fucked up the world gets, and how much worse her life is without Buffy around to save the day. Scott wished for Himself not to have done something (even something passive, like 'get bitten') and would have to watch how fucked up his world gets, and how far behind he would fall. The other's lives might not necessarily get better, because Peter is still on the loose, and the hunters are still there, etc etc, but they would still Progress, while Scott would stay stagnant.

And WHY is that? Because Scott isn't important to the story. It DOESN'T start with him. That's the Whole Point of his character. He is supposed to be the 'everyman' who gets dragged into crazy shit and becomes integral to things that he wasn't ever meant to be a part of. The guy who wanders into becoming King or 'The Hero' that will save the world, even though he's just a small lad from a tiny town, whose highest prospects were "get on first line."

He was NEVER supposed to be Buffy, or if he was, it was done Very Badly.

But Beacon Hills WASN'T a quiet town before Scott was bitten; however much he might've said 'nothing ever happens in this town.' It was FULL of bullshittery and magic from the very beginning. There was the fire, and Paige, and the blinding of Deucalion, and the death of Alexander Argent, and the Nogitsune in the internment camp nearby. All of these things were around So much longer than Scott's bite, and they'd been affecting the world that whole time too. Because yes, in Buffy, the master was There before she was, but he was literally rendered inert by the situations he was in. And the things he'd done happened Centuries before, not six years. There is a difference. Sunnydale was Not Known for the insane number of weird deaths. Beacon Hills was. And aside from the Nogitsune, every single fucking thing that happened in Beacon Hills, was attuned to the Hale family in one way or another. Deucalion's blinding occurred during a meeting on Hale land, because Talia was known as a wise leader, etc, in the area and other wolves flocked to her. Deucalion biting Argent seems unrelated (if you even believe Deucalion did that, despite being a fucking pacifist before Gerard blinded him), but again, it occurs just a couple hours away from Beacon Hills, which is Hale Territory. The one who plays the Buffy role here? Who shows up at just the right time, and launches themself against an endless wave of evil, with slightly enhanced senses and a thorough need to do good and not back away from things that 'aren't they're problem'? The actual hero who is somehow tied to everything going on in ways even they don't understand? Was Derek. The guy who entirely unwittingly allowed Julia Baccari to survive, because he was trying to be merciful to his first love. Who entirely unwittingly was manipulated into giving up information that let a hunter kill his family. Who followed his sister back to town after six years of just trying to survive in New York, fell into a fucking tragedy, and decided to stop the bad guys anyway, even though he knew he didn't stand a fucking chance.

And as annoyed as some might get. The 'everyman' who stumbles onto the set and accidentally becomes integral to the saving of the world? The one whose ambitions are small and who expectations are smaller? Who is misunderstood, and has abilities that aren't recognized or appreciated, that doesn't really fit in, but tries their best anyway? The literal Angel to Derek's Buffy?

Is fucking Stiles. The son of the sheriff who just could not let it go when he discovered there was something funky going on. Who hung around on the edges, even though he wasn't really wanted, because he needed to help. Who ended up saving Derek's life over and over, and becoming so important as to be Derek's anchor? Who literally WENT DARKSIDE and HAD TO BE NEARLY KILLED, even though Derek didn't to kill him???

I know how it sounds, but JD SAID he took inspiration from Buffy. The issue is that his parallels are between DEREK AND STILES, and BUFFY AND ANGEL. Respectively.

Derek might act like the broody bad boy, but it is STILES' mentality that matches Angel's behavior, and it's Derek who matches Buffy.

I'm so fucking off track. Scott would be miserable if he ever managed to get a wish and used it to keep from having been bitten. And it would be sad. I would feel bad for him, had I watched something like that happen. Seeing him realize that most of the good things he had, he only got because of the bite. That Stiles would still be on first line, that Lydia and Jackson would still be the popular kids. That Allison wouldn't know he existed, or if she did would avoid him entirely. That Jackson would never have been turned into the kanima in the first place. That everyone else would move on and up in life, and he would still be standing at the bottom step. Because it wasn't his actual limitations that were holding him back, it was his refusal to accept them, to work with them, and to just plain stop Envying Everyone Around him, and start living his own fucking life instead of trying to steal other people's.

Scott wishes he were Cordelia, and I promise that would backfire too.

can you do a little rundown of the podcast i have the attention span of a gerbil when it comes to listening (if not that’s cool i love ur art tho)

i've got a shitty attention span, too, but here's like some of the basic rundown. i should've taken notes oops. But here's the basic rundown that i retained, notthing is an exact quote and is based off of what I can remember, so i recommend checking out the episode if you can

this is long, the podcast was like an hour long lol

A lot of the beginning (I say the first 10-15-20ish minutes or so?) of the podcast introduces you to the podcast, Miles Luna, and what camp camp is. nothing real meat-y yet, a lot of this is just for potential new viewers who don't know anything about either piece of media

Miles talks a lot about how CC was pitched to RT, at the time RT wanted a more episodic series where new viewers could jump in at really any time due to their two main animated shows (RVB and RWBY) being very long and plot heavy shows.

a lot of people took about a week to come up with different ideas (even having ideas for GEN:LOCK being suggested, but saved due to budget limitations), and Miles was like "okay, how about a summer camp show with all of the camp stereotypes like adventure camp, space camp, jesus camp, etc", Miles basically wrote "Camp Camp" on the board and Jordan Cwierz loved the name and concept, and helped out with that, so they were both making this series based off of their experiences at summer camps they've been to/worked at.

Some of the show's inspirations includes South Park, The Simpsons, and Camp Lazlo. Fans of CC came up to Miles and other members of the crew stating how similar CC is to Gravity Falls, which was unintentional as Miles hadn't watched/heard of(?) the series at that point in time.

While the series is intended to be episodic, they wanted to make sure to include some gags and details that would reward returning viewers (such as "Tabii with two eyes now only having one eye" and the "CHRISTMAS!!!" "no, nikki, it's parent's day" - "IT'S PARENT'S DAY!!!!" and then it's Christmas-- my mind's blanking on the exact quote but it's the snow day episode), as well as general RT fans with references to RVB and RWBY strung about in a few background gags.

Miles goes on to talk about early production and character concepts of characters, talking about how Fred Flintstone was the everyman of a generation, then Homer Simpson was the everyman for the next generation, so they wanted to figure out who the everyman for millennials would be (ironic considering a majority of the fandom seems to be Gen z lol)

They were thinking that the protagonist should be this cynical, "tired of everything and everyone" kind of character, being a counselor at Camp Campbell. To very vaguely quote, "they'd be fresh out of college, and (being a camp counselor) was probably the only job they could get right out of college and it doesn't even pay well, and they're just tired of it all"

However, after a bit of thought, they realized that that'd be a boring show to watch, and that it'd be a lot more interesting to have a happy-go-lucky and optimistic protagonist, and they gave Max the cynical role, and had them be driving forces to keep the show going.

They did keep the "tired of everyone fresh out of college" idea and used it for Gwen! Even having her having many majors to kind of rub salt in the wound that she works at camp campbell. She's cynical, but more in the "i've seen and experienced some shit and i'm just tired of it all" way, rather than how Max is.

As I mentioned in a previous post; Sleepy Peak and the Camp Grounds were based off of Cimarron, New Mexico of all things. The small town is mostly known for it's Boy Scout Ranch where Miles had worked at. You can see a lot of similarities between Cimarron and Sleepy Peak

(this is the best SP screenshot i have on me right now, idk where my full ones are)

Miles mentions a bit about the music featured in CC, how certain artists would give them the license to play songs at the end of episodes (like Flint Flossy, Watsky, Richie Branson, etc)

Richie Branson stuck out to them, seeing as he wrote original songs that actually related to the episodes instead of just handing over one of his existing songs, so they hired him to make all of the ending songs you hear at the end of each episode in seasons 2, 3, and 4 (and even the occasional intermission song in season 3!)

When making the series' Teaser Trailer, the Deadpool movie had used "X Gon Give it to you", and everyone had the song stuck in their heads, so they jokingly used the song in the original teaser when showing it to RT, but to their surprise they actually loved it, so they Jeremy Dooley sing the "Camp Camp Rap Rap" which is an unapologetic parody of XGGITY.

Miles talks about some of the characters and how they really wanted a bully character (Nurf), but they couldn't think of what to do with him until like episode 8(?) when they decided he was a painfully self aware bully with the capability to self diagnose his issues, but won't do anything about it because he feels like it's the adults' responsibility to "fix him"

Miles also takes a moment to talk about the writing on the show, and some of the things he regrets making into the show and what he'd fix if he could. Some of those being the fact that the main characters of color (Max, Gwen, and Nerris) are all voiced by white people who work at RT because that's who they had available at the time, and that He would potentially get VAs of color to replace the actors (i honestly can't imagine anyone else voicing these characters, ESPECIALLY Max and Gwen, but I honestly understand, respect and support this decision!)

Miles also mentions how his writing style has "matured" and a lot of the things that he used to find funny and made it into the show just don't appeal to him anymore. He refers to a lot of the more "dark and offensive" jokes as "cheap humor", and would rather writes comedy that didn't rely on the downfall of people who are already repressed in their day to day lives (IE POC, Jewish people, and I imagine also the LGBTQ+ community but aside from Max almost saying the F slur, Nikki saying "that was super gay" in S1E3, and Cameron being like "...alright" at Nerris stating she prefers to identify as "Elf Kin", I don't recall a LOOOT of homophobic/transphobic moments in the show? but maybe I need to pay more attention)

(I imagine that D*lph's character and Bonquisha would NOT have made it into camp camp if it were made today and not back in 2016 when being "edgy" was the thing. you can REALLY tell how much influence south park had on the show)

Miles would rather rely on rewarding humor that everyone can laugh at than have jokes like this, so if RT allows for another season, hopefully they can FINALLY put a fucking end to D*lph's whole thing. (I hate that kid with a burning passion.)

Miles takes a bit to talk about the fandom-- How surprised he is about all the content that comes out of the fandom and how many new fans the show continues to have. He mentions the resurgence of fans that happened back in summer '21 on tiktok and twitter, and it makes Miles happy to see that people still care about the show :')

Miles does miss the show, and he does still sing the theme song.

If he could, Miles would like to do a 5th season of the series to end it off, but if he knew that CC was going to be put on an indefinite hiatus by RT and could potentially just be done with, he probably would have written the S4 finale better

that being said-- there is still a possibility for S5!! let roosterteeth know that there is a demand for the series, let them hear it!! Keep making content, talk about the show, show your love for the series!!

I could honestly go on more that happened, this only covers some of the podcast, but it's like 12:30AM for me and my teeth hurt like a bitch lol

There are so many things going on in this podcast, including talk about writers and such, and if you have the time i highly encourage checking it out, even if you do it bit-by-bit!

EPISODES 1 & 2

tw: discussion of suicide

in no particular order cos i watched the episodes 2× but smoked during both watches like an idiot:

- loved the fakeout with the bridge scene in ep1. ignoring his moms calls, regretfully talking to what i assume was a friend from school, the leadup of "i really really cant write anymore cover letters"...genuinely thought jun-woong was about to kill himself. but nope! hes butting his nose in some depressed homeless guys business instead

- sidenote im really enjoying the introduction of jun-woongs character as this kind of pathetic everyman. looking forward to some character development but i hope he keeps some of that for ~flavor~

- pink rukia wears that thick ass fur coat because shes a coldblooded boss bitch built not of flesh and bone but ice. love her tho

- lee soo hyuk in that suit. good fucking lord

- on god i replayed the 2 seconds of him saying goo ryeons name like six times

- hes a bitch though. "wahh how is suicide different from murder" stealing someone elses life from them is way the fuck worse than killing yourself. you dumbshit idiot. like yeah suicide = still technically murder not arguing that but its a choice made by someone about their own life, not a violent exertion of someones bloodlust over someone elses will to live

- lim, absolutely fucking blankfaced: i love you [slow fingerheart]

- THE WAY HE FOLLOWED RYEON WITH IT STILL UP STARING INTENSELY WITH HIS DEAD FUCKING LIZARD EYES I ALMOST DIED LAUGHING deadass he might be my fav character just off that. plus i can practically smell the angsty backstory on him and i love rude bastards with tragic pasts ¯\_ (ツ)_/¯ what can i say i have a type

- speaking of tragic pasts ryeon ima need you to stop shaming all these suicidal bitches when the foreshadowing is telling me youre the biggest suicidal bitch of them all. the hypocricy is unbelievable

- ryeon exclusively smokes skimps bc shes frugal and has a low tolerance; lim has never smoked a skimp in his life he rolls fatties ONLY (not canon obv 💔 but canon in my heart 💜💜)

- OKAY GOTTA SAY seeing them play with jun-woongs character is super cool. somewhat simpleminded but genuinely good guy whos unafraid of speaking up or stepping in when somethings not right? classic. but that little bit of deviousness they snuck in with the toilet paper scene and the way he was grinning like a little kid while hustling that guy down the hallway made me really love him

- i hope they explain the whole "if you touch someone in the memories youll be trapped" thing and how it relates to the memories shattering and collapsing around them more. like do you only get stuck if you take too long to go through a new door with the key and get folded into the memory? and if you get out, since its something that happened in the past, do the people you touch remember you being there? like if jun-woong was the type of guy to beat up schoolgirls could he have theoretically kicked miss webtoons ass, scared her off from bulling eunbi, and spared her that whole mess of trauma by just booking it before the memory collapsed ?

final notes:

i was a little anxious going in because im usually fine with suicide itself but people being blamed/shamed for it or having it blown off as unimportant happen to be massively triggering for me, and both of those are pretty much south koreas whole suicide M.O., but the ending of episode 2 makes it very clear that jun-woongs empathy and support are the qualities that will allow the risk management team to save people and then help them save themselves. its so refreshing to see. the comfort this show (if it keeps going in the direction i think it will) could bring to those suffering is genuinely more than i can put into words

FEATURE: How I Got Into Sakuga

Kaiba, Directed by Masaaki Yuasa

  If you’re an anime fan, you’re likely an animation fan in general. But how do you know when an animation is “good”? How do you learn to identify an animator by only what you see, or tell when their drawings are better than usual?

  English-speaking anime fans have adopted sakuga as a general catch-all term for exceptional animation. While the word sakuga itself means “animation,” in this context, sakuga has come to mean something very specific: Not just animation that looks cool, but the deliberate handiwork of specific animators with specific artistic aspirations. For example, a single-animator project might have a lot of “sakuga shots” because it has a personal, highly-refined style. Meanwhile, a television series might have an entire team of varying specialists for a larger narrative. Some of this might be attributed to specific key animators, while some might be credited to an entire studio — transformation sequences, explosive missiles, robots — that’s all fair game to be called sakuga. But how do you really know if what you’re looking at really is this so-called “sakuga?”

  Like most art, it’s almost entirely subjective. Here’s my story.

Project A-ko, a high-energy 1986 OVA series best remembered for its exceptional animation staff

(Image via Retrocrush)

  All’s Fair in Love and War Games

  When I was a kid, I got my hands on the English-dubbed Digimon: The Movie on VHS. This notorious release was a three-part recut of Mamoru Hosoda’s Digimon OVAs released from 1999 to 2000, heavily featuring his second film Digimon Adventure: Our War Game. Of course, I didn’t experience this package as a “Hosoda anime” at the time. Besides the inspired inclusion of Barenaked Ladies’ "One Week" to the soundtrack, I strongly associate these films with Hosoda’s signature interpretation of Katsuyoshi Nakatsuru’s original Digimon Adventure character designs. Compared to the Toei-produced television series, these renditions of the Digi-Destined are charmingly off-model and move with awkward intention, like actual kids up against terrifying monsters.

  In a sense, that’s what most people mean by sakuga — animation that makes us lean in and notice traits about the world and characters that can’t be communicated otherwise. Sakuga, in particular, places special emphasis on an individual animator’s keyframes, or the drawings used as a basis for in-between frames during movement. That’s what I mean by the phrase “Hosoda anime.” If you watch Summer Wars or The Girl Who Leapt Through Time enough times, anyone will notice a stylistic palette of idiosyncrasies.

    Digimon Adventure “Home Away From Home” directed by Mamoru Hosoda

(Image via Hulu)

  An Emerging Style

  When I got older and realized there was more anime than what was on cable, I kept returning to “flat” style animation with films like Tatsuo Satō’s 2001 Cat Soup and Shōji Kawamori’s 1996 Spring and Chaos. Around this time, contemporary artist Takashi Murakami also began developing his own “superflat” style (coined in his 2000 book Superflat and later in Little Boy: The Arts of Japan's Exploding Subculture) we’ll return to. Once I got a taste for the experimental, I never turned back.

  But back to Hosoda. Less focused on the details of models and more fixated on a “flat” or fluid style of movement, the key animation in Hosoda’s films makes body language a priority. This is perhaps the best thing about good sakuga — its potential to express deep emotion even under production constraints. My favorite example comes from the first Digimon short film Hosoda directed, the simply titled Digimon Adventure from 1999.

Keep Your Hands Off Eizouken!, Directed by Masaaki Yuasa

  Originally conceived as a standalone for Bandai’s then-new Digital Monsters virtual pet toys, this version of Digimon is less loud, more atmospheric — and sincerely preoccupied with the question: “How would little kids actually handle a giant monster of their own?” The result is an unforgettable shot of Kairi, Tai’s little sister desperately blowing her whistle, stopping to catch her breath, then spitting and coughing in an attempt to calm down their newly evolved kaiju Greymon friend. 

  For the television series, Hosoda directed the episode “Home Away From,” depicting the two siblings clinging to each other as the other slowly drifts back to the Digital World. In both scenes, characters don’t constantly move, but only act when necessary via careful manipulation of the frames. This technique not only makes everything seem more “realistic,” but also acts as a visual cue for the anxiety Tai and Kairi feel. In other words, painstakingly controlled animation serves both form and function, especially when you’re selling an emotional climax of another kid-meets-monster plot.

Tomorrow’s Joe, 1980 film adaptation of the 1970 TV anime series directed by Osamu Dezaki

(Image via Retrocrush)

  A Little History Lesson

  After Digimon, Hosoda and Nakatsuru collaborated on films like Summer Wars and the Takashi Murakami-inspired pop art short Superflat Monogram. Hosoda is no doubt inescapable to sakuga fans today thanks to the ubiquity of his feature films. Still, Hosoda obviously wasn’t the first sakuga animator. Animators like Yasuo Ōtsuka, known for his cinematic work in a pre-Ghibli era of anime film with Toei, documented the growth ‘60s and ‘70s of Japan’s animation industry in his 2013 book Sakuga Asemamire. When the demand for films lowered in favor of anime television during that era, animators took risks. Classics of the era like Tiger Mask and Tomorrow's Joe literally held no punches, and Osamu Tezuka’s own Mushi Productions dove headfirst into experimental adult films. Animators, and especially keyframe animators, had creative control. In this perfect storm, the advent of sakuga was inevitable.

  Everyman Ken Kubo is taught the ways of eighties anime in Otaku no Video

(Image via Retrocrush)  

Why Bother With Sakuga?  

In 2013, animation aficionado Sean Bires and company hosted an informational panel titled “Sakuga: The Animation of Anime” at Anime Central Chicago. Uploaded to YouTube that same year, this panel informed my younger self’s understanding of not just the “how” of sakuga, but the “why” it even needed to exist in anyone’s vocabulary. Accessible, meticulously researched, and full of visual references, Sean’s two-hour panel-lecture does the heavy lifting of contextualizing anime not just through a historical lens, but within the broader project of expanding cinematic techniques. This primer might sound heady, but considering the popularity of Masaaki Yuasa’s series like Keep Your Hands Off Eizouken!, and references to animator Ichirō Itano’s “Itano circus” missiles in American cartoons like DuckTales, it’s hard to say sakuga isn't relevant. Nowadays, it's practically a trope to parody one of Dezaki's most iconic shots. Supplemented by a rich community of blogs and forums, it couldn’t be easier to learn about animators like Yasuo Ōtsuka or the early days of Toei if you want a bigger picture. Blogs like Ben Ettinger’s Anipages and the aptly named Sakuga Blog are a good place to start, not to mention dozens of dedicated galleries of anime production and art books published by studios themselves. Now couldn’t be a better time to vicariously live your art school dreams through anime masterworks.

  Little Nemo: Adventures in Slumberland, a 1989 film featuring animation by Yasuo Ōtsuka best known for his work on the Lupin III franchise  

Sakuga Is For Everyone  

Fans have always been obsessed with the technicalities of animation, even if they weren't artists. As early as 2007, uncut dubbed collector box sets for Naruto came with annotated booklets of episode storyboards. More recently, critically-acclaimed series like Shirobako further explicated this love for animation as a team effort — people love attaching other people to art. In contrast, psychological horror series like Satoshi Kon’s Paranoia Agent features an episode about an anime studio’s production going terribly wrong. Not to mention the endlessly self-referential Otaku no Video Gainax OVA and its depiction of zealous sakuga otaku. Anime fans adore watching anime be born over and over. It’s that simple.     

Digimon Adventure “Home Away From Home” directed by Mamoru Hosoda

(Image via Hulu)

Today, I’d comfortably call some shots from Hosoda Digimon films great sakuga. But Koromon is still weird. Sorry.   The love for sakuga isn’t a contest to one-up fans on production trivia or terminology. It’s about taking the time to appreciate the fact that anime is ultimately a collaborative artistic endeavor. From tracing back the lineage of animators like Yoshinori Kanada to Kill la Kill, to appreciating the visual sugar rush of Project A-Ko alongside slow-paced Ghibli films, “getting into sakuga” isn't a passive effort, nor a waste of time. Besides, wouldn't it be fun understanding how your favorite animator achieved your favorite scene? The phrase "labor of love" is cliché, but maybe that’s a good synonym for what role sakuga inevitably plays for artists and fans alike — work that brings you joy, no matter how you cut it.   Who is your favorite animator? When did you get into sakuga? Let us know in the comments below!

      Blake P. is a weekly columnist for Crunchyroll Features. His twitter is @_dispossessed. His bylines include Fanbyte, VRV, Unwinnable, and more. He actually doesn't hate Koromon.

  Do you love writing? Do you love anime? If you have an idea for a features story, pitch it to Crunchyroll Features!

By: Blake Planty

The Hounds of the Baskerville

Holding a phallic object, splattered with a body fluid and breathing heavily.

“Well that was tedious!”

And as if that was too subtle, he keeps playing with the harpoon even after it and him has been cleaned off and he’s switched to one of his robes.

John taking just two seconds to pretend considering to give in, just to be a little shit.

Also I am pretty sure that John has a secret scrapbook just for pictures of Sherlock in the hat.

Oh look, begging for mercy. Twice.

I just really love this scene, the manic energy of Sherlock and the calm sass of John gives us some of the funniest moments of the entire show. Also Ben needs to do more physical comedy.

Here he mentions a blog entry on perfume identification which plays out in HLV, so I’m a bit disappointed that the blogging on textile tensile strength in TEH didn’t feature in s4. Maybe some shirts get ripped in s5?

It’s so mean, but my favorite bit really is the mocking of the little girl asking for help finding her rabbit.

The wagging from side to side “please please please can you help?”

“Like a fairy!” with accompanying high pitch and hand motions.

Followed by a look from John that suggests he doesn’t think a lack of substance is Sherlock’s present issue.

And then suddenly he’s like “wait this actually does sound better than nothing”

And Cluedo. “It was the only possible solution”

Trivia note: the Swedish name for the game is also Cluedo, except we pronounce each vowel seperately. Clu-e-do.

It’s so domestic how they say “client” together. Apparently there’s a certain way frequent callers would ring the doorbell that differentiates clients.

Sherlock’s mainly looking at Henry looking at the video, don’t think I’ve noticed that before.

John’s irritated already when Sherlock begins listing things he noticed. Maybe he feels it is a bit too similar to when they first met, meaning he might be jealous that Sherlock does it with others or irritated at his past self for being as mesmerized as Henry is.

Sherlock inventing aggressive passive smoking.

Sherlock is so annoyed that Henry keeps thinking he’s in a horror story rather than a detective story.

I wonder what kind of poetry John wrote. He probably tried to use his feelings for Sherlock to simulate the romance his girlfriends wanted, which is why it is extra exasperating that Sherlock found it “funny”. Although that might be because he’d find the poetry mismatched to the girlfriends and/or the emotional investment John showed them.

“Childhood trauma masked by an invented memory. Boring!”

The parallel has been pointed out before but it bears repeating. Even if they hadn’t planned ahead by the time this episode was written, why go ahead and use an already discarded plot device they themselves called boring?

Interestingly the plot of the episode does more or less lead to this being the solution but not quite. The memory was invented and masking the real events, but it wasn’t Henry’s childhood brain doing it (at least not without aid). Might be worth comparing these plots. If only for the meta moment of it wasn’t you who imagined what you saw, someone made you see it. And then they tried to drive you into fear and doubt to keep secrets hidden.

“The vanishing glow-in-the-dark rabbit! NATO is in an uproar.”

That :( face is so funny every time.

Hound is a bit tricky in Swedish as the Swedish word for dog is hund. So the subtitles just go with spökhund. (Ghost dog)

“It’s cold.” John doesn’t even say anything but he still makes Sherlock self conscious.

Wonder why they showed us the therapy session?

John standing by the counter looking at Sherlock just looking very soft.

Doesn’t even complete his denial. And was that a single key, or were two keys just so closely held together? I’ve never been fully sure if they shared a single room or had one each. John’s incomplete denial would suggest separate rooms (it’s okay because they’re not actually a couple).

John showing his detective skills. And for once it won’t play out like the cats in TGG. It’s an important reminder that John is a smart man overshadowed by a genius, instead of the common enough Everyman and/or bumbling oaf that some believe of Watson.

“And the ruddy prisoner” probably the full extent of the subplot from the novel.

“Is yours a snorer?” “Got any crisps?” Pretty high pitch there, John.

There is sort of a running theme of characters waxing poetically in vague spookiness and Sherlock just scoffing at it. Reminder that the novel is a horror story starring a detective outside of his normal trappings.

“We’ll get caught.” “No, we won’t. Well not right away.”

More exact words from John as he pulls rank and activates Sherlock’s military kink.

The timer doesn’t start ticking at the gate but at the building itself, wonder why. Or maybe it has been ticking, but now there’s atten paid to it?

“Enjoy it?” Just something to file away in the John wing of his mind palace.

I halfway expected one of the elevator buttons to be key activated for the really tippy top secret secrets.

I see one monkey has seen Raiders of the Lost Arc. That or it’s still upset that it didn’t get the part.

“Stapleton?” He may have mocked little Kirsty, but he still remembered her name.

“People say there’s no such thing as coincidences. What dull lives they must lead.” But the universe is rarely so lazy? Of course rarely does not mean never, and looking at the forebears website Stapleton is a 1 in 3600 name in Devon. So the only question is if Kirsty listed her whereabouts on the forum. Not in her message but maybe in the profile she made.

The dramatic reveal of BLUEBELL.

Sherlock deducing the inside job while John just repeats “the rabbit?” is as good a summary of the show as anything, honestly.

Mycroft’s exasperated “goodammit, Sherlock!” look is almost too loud for the Diogenes club.

I think I read on tvtropes that the Major’s beard isn’t regulatory. Acceptable breaks of reality for the sake of original reference.

“It wasn’t my hat.” I love how the hat is used as a summary of the artifacts attached to the character. The trappings that come from adaptations and parodies and whatnot. Like Igor, who apparently wasn’t even in the original Universal Horror film but its sequel.

Exactly how does John expect Sherlock to turn off his cheekbones? Also the idea that Sherlock is turning up his collar to “play cool” as they’re leaving Baskerville kind of shows that it’s mainly for John’s benefit. Like his later choices to wear the hat. Sherlock starts off wanting to impress John, and by s3 it is about playing a specific Sherlock Holmes role. And again, John betrays his real thought by mentioning the cheekbones. “Stop being so attractive, dammit!”

“Has she been working on something deadlier than a rabbit?” “To be fair, that is quite a wide field.” Cue the killer rabbit jokes.

John’s awkward “are you... rich?”

In the original story the wealth was far more plot relevant, here it’s just a bit of dialogue fodder.

Not spelling out “in” this time?

Pretty sure those are IKEA mugs.

The plan sounds bad, but it is perfectly sound. They have done as much preliminary research as they can at the moment, and by going all three of them they do stand a decent chance should the beast be real. Of course Sherlock still doubts it’s real, which is the main plot for his character.

With the exception of this episode and episodes of Midsumer Murders I hadn’t really heard fox screams before. Imagine not knowing that’s what it is and just hearing this almost ghostly screech specifically when watching English mystery shows.

John just wandering away from the others without alerting them, and then he’s surprised that Sherlock and Henry has continued on without him. If he has a survival instinct it is in a coma.

Umqra. John knows Morse, which I honestly have found tricky trying to learn.

Taking a break here.

Episode 15

- Hera we need you this place is falling apart :’(

- Eiffel doesn’t believe in chores but he DOES believe in chess

- Off the record time

- Isabelle has been Erased

- Hilbert is just Vibing

- Time to interrogate him babey

- HOHOHO USE THE STICK COMMANDER USE THE STICK

- SHES MORE THAN AN APPLIANCE HILBERT AND YOU K I L L E D H E R

- I don’t think he’s gonna talk commander

- Is that an apple??????? Delicious mm

- This man has chosen the airlock give it to him KILL HIM.

- Dang it Hilbert stop being smart for a minute

- BREAK HIM COMMANDER

- BREAK HIMMMM

- dang Hilbert go for the throat I guess

- Oh dear she’s angy

- Eiffel is just doin his best and frankly I am very proud of him

- HAHA TORTURE BY EIFFEL

- they are both afraid hmm

- Very interesting angle here Doug I’m liking it

- Doug has a special reason for being here??? I knew he was out of place but that has an in-universe purpose???

- And it’s a secret?? Where are you from Eiffel

- Aw commander you trust him enough to drop it :)

- HAHAHA GET HIM WHERE IT HURTS GET HIM IN THE SCIENCE

- “You’ve been running experiments with radiation, and microbes, and plants—“ “AND ME” “—and Eiffel!”

- Ooo he’s not giving in!!

- Commander. Why are you pointing a gun at Eiffel.

- Poor Eiffel :(

- Decima, corrosive, but with mutations it could make someone healthy?? This man is making an Übermensch???

- So it needs active place—ITS IN EIFFEL EXCUSE MEEE??????

- apple time I guess

- Every new episode I listen to is like being punched in the face with more information and I LOVE IT

- So Eiffel is some kind of guinea pig?? Or less of a guinea pig and more of a walking, talking, incubator

- Also, I love that when the research hard-drives weren’t cutting it, Minkowski just was like “well I have one other bargaining chip I guess” and just immediately prepared to kill Eiffel

- Very proud of Eiffel for going with it though, he trusts her!! At least, mostly. She was pointing a gun at his head, but. Details.

- Hilbert is just getting more and more interesting, I really liked his dialogue this episode

- Eiffel is apparently Mysterious so that’s cool. I’m glad to see that there’s an narrative reason he’s here with Commander Competent and Brainiac of Unethical Science, instead of it just being a storytelling situation of an Everyman in the presence of super intelligent/competent characters

- Hilbert’s breakdown of Minkowski was very interesting here, but he implies she doesn’t have the guts to kill someone, and THEN gives in when she threatens to kill Eiffel. I wonder if that was him just panicking after the isolation+starvation+loss of all his research, or if he’s playing 4D chess with them and was calling her bluff???

- then again,

- None Of Us Knew What Minkowski Was Going To Do In That Moment, Least Of All Minkowski

- Also!! Apparently i was right in my post on episode 11, cause this man really IS working toward immortality!! And I Do Not know how to feel about that!!

- I am PUMPED to see where this is all leading

Haven DVD Commentaries: 5.16 - The Trial of Nathan Wuornos

Commentary with Speed Weed (writer for the episode) and Adam Higgs (writer for 5.15)

SW: This was really a two-parter. We tried to make these not look like two-parters, but they were. AH: And this season became even more serialised than 5A, which was pretty chocablock. SW: Yeah, well we’re heading towards the end, wrapping things up.

[*Flashback on screen to Duke’s eyes turning black*] SW: We talked a lot about what colour Duke’s eyes should be. AH: And the pupils; shark eyes, no pupils … red, black, white.

SW: So really, right from the start, we felt it a little bit ourselves but we get a lot of shellacking from a certain core of fans who feel that we don’t give Nathan his due.  And, we love Nathan as a character, and this episode was really meant to highlight all the heroism that he has done for the town over five seasons. And, we thought we would put him on trial. AH: It was a great idea. I remember we went back and forth on how much of a trial it would be, and what would the trial look like. SW: Right. And at the time I was listening to a lecture, during my commute in the car, on ancient Greek democracy. So it sort of got based on that. AH: And that’s a good touchstone for this episode; democracy. Who is allowed to make decisions in this new world order?

[*Demands on screen for Nathan to be banished*] AH: We put Dwight between a rock and a hard place here, and he did a really good job with that. SW: Yeah, and Tony’s right - Dwight in 5.15 banished a guy for doing less.

[*Audrey on screen: We need to put Nathan on trial*] AH: Remember, she is an FBI agent. SW: We’d sort of forgotten that for a bunch of seasons. And speaking of FBI agents, we tried so hard to bring Fraudrey back. We never found a way. That’s a regret. AH: We tried. Fraudrey fans, we tried. SW: We did.

[*Dwight on screen telling Haven they need to come up with a legal process for Nathan*] SW: We’re supposed to be commenting. I’m just enjoying Adam’s performance. He did a great job. AH: You wrote a good speech for him there. SW: Ah, he makes it good.

[*Vince on screen: I’m unclear, is this a stalling tactic or the rebirth of democracy?] SW: *laughing* Vince can’t imagine something straight up, can he?

[As we see Duke and Hailie in Halifax] AH: So again, these scenes were shot a long time after the rest of the episode. SW: What happened to the truck? Did they shoot these scenes out of order? AH: I think they did. So, he traded in the truck because it was hot and he didn’t want to be caught. SW: And because we have product placement with Toyota maybe. [The car they just got out of is a Toyota] and the truck was a Ford as I recall. But that’s not a new Toyota, I don’t know if we got any money for that. [*Duke to Hailie: When I almost hit you with the car, what were you thinking about? Was there anything else in your world or just the car?] SW: Yeah and it was a truck [not a car] - I think they shot these scenes out of order. AH: Yeah and it was two different units too, so the continuity process might not have coped SW: And it might have been two different directors as well I can’t remember exactly who shot what.

[*Vince and Dave addressing the school*] AH: You did a great job with this PA system. I remember when you were trying to figure out exactly how to do this - I thought it was brilliant. It’s one of those things sometimes when your hands are tied (where it has to all be in the school) you can come up with really clever execution. SW: This is true by the way, history fans; the prosecutor in ancient Athenian trials offered what he thought the punishement should be. The prosecutor proposed a punishment and the defence also proposed a punishment if found guilty. It was a way of getting some moderation. Because the jury could only choose between the two options, so if the prosecutor over reached, you could get off with a light sentence.

[*Tony talking about Nathan’s previous ‘crimes’ eg stopping Duke leaving town] SW: And so we were trying to make the trial about everything, to let Nathan justify himself for the series AH: Yeah and prove that he’s that hero. Because he really is. I do think these episodes really kicked it off for this season in which he has a strong heroic arc. SW: Yep. AH: And we talked a lot about that near the end of the season when it came down to, everybody else seems pre-destined and he’s the everyman. SW: Yes, he’s the everyman. He’s the only guy with no supernatural fate.

[*Audrey talking about wanting to stop the trial*] AH: And this was nice. I remember when we were breaking this one of the things you were talking about was flipping the usual paradigm of Nathan doing everything in his power to save Audrey - now Audrey’s doing everything in her power to save Nathan. SW: Right.

SW: We haven’t got any character payments yet, have we? Wouldn’t it be nice if we got Trouble payments. AH: Oh my goodness. We put so many Troubles in this episode. SW: So, by guild rules when you introduce a new character in a series, when you’re the first writer to write that character, you’re defining that character and so - it’s really nominal, but you get a payment for the creation of that character, when they appear in future episodes. So by gentleman’s agreement Adam and I have agreed to split them on the ones we two-parted; we haven’t gotten those yet. We’re in a fight [presumably a good natured one] with Nick Parker about who introduced Charlotte. Because she actually appears right at the end of episode 8, and it’s a question of how many lines she has, or how substantial they are I think is the actual question. And just to be clear - we’re talking about, maybe enough money for a dinner out. AH: Yeah, nothing more than that. It’s more the fun of it than anything.

[*As Hailie realises she’s cut her heel*] AH: I thought this was a great moment you put in here of Duke, you know … SW: Worried about the blood touching him? AH: You can’t escape your past, is his whole story line here SW: Right. AH: And he’s just trying, so desperately.

[*Audrey telling Peggy that her husband Rolf is dead*] SW: Jennifer Morris does a good job here - this is thankless for an actor. To go to the most emotionally difficult place you could possibly imagine, without any ramp up - the scene just starts on it. Thankless. Good work. You try not to write things that way because it’s just too much; you’re not going to get a good performance out of it. You try to cut out of a scene on telling the bad news and then cut back in when the character’s had ten minutes to digest it.

[*Vince, Dave and Nathan arguing about whether they can let the trial carry on or whether they can stop it*] AH: There’s some great tension - here you are in a classroom and yet the stakes are so high. SW: Yeah, number two on the call sheet and his life’s on the line.

[*Kira trapped underground with her fluorescent tube*] SW: I think this looks really cool, that she’s lighting that thing with her Trouble. But what was the Adam’s Family reference that Matt was worried about? AH: Oh, he was worried it was going to look like Uncle Fester who could put a lightbulb in his mouth and light it up. SW: Right. I don’t see Uncle Fester in that. AH: Yeah I don’t see it at all.

[Charlotte: I lost my husband to it] AH: And that was a big reveal SW: That was a big moment. AH: I’m so interested - we haven’t seen these episodes air yet and seen the reactions, so I’m so interested to see what people will make of this. Putting their thinking caps on trying to deduce who’s the husband.

[*Tony spinning tales about Nathan to the school*] AH: And you did a really good job here with Tony of not making him arch. And making him formidable. SW: Well Paul [in the role] did a great job with that too, he really threaded the needle on it. And actually, props as well to Rick, our director, who helped get him there.

[*Audrey threatening to set fire to the school to disrupt the trial*] SW: They did a great job with this. This switch where he’s calm and cool and she’s, you know … Thinking of the end of season three where Nathan shoots Howard; he’s willing to do anything. And now she’s willing to do anything to save her one true love. AH: I think it’s nice. I think it really shows how much they care for each other and that the relationship is growing. And the characters are growing too.

SW: And here’s Faber Haskins. AH: This was cool. This was one of the worst bad guys we’ve had on this show. Because usually on this show people with Troubles are conflicted; they don’t have malice in their hearts. But this guy is just … SW: And props to the actor, he did a great job. Oh wow I like the nose ring. It’s funny, I’ve seen this cut before but he delivered a really good audition so I remember that (when he didn’t have the nose ring)

[*As Faber shows us the pile of bodies*] SW: Oh yeah, jeez wow. Remember when we had to review pictures of the props for that? AH: Yeah we talked about what would the bones look like, how fresh … SW: How much meat should be left on them. Oh my god, only on this show

SW: So Grayson, we auditioned a bunch of Graysons, many of whom were very good - and they had to actually really truly sign, but also talk because in episode 17, he is no longer deaf, he actually talks. So getting someone who can act, sign and talk is rarer than you might think. And we auditioned a bunch of people and low and behold, seeing that Grayson appears in episode 17 which is directed by Lucas Bryant, he said; I have a friend in LA who can do all those things and he’s a good actor. And he delivered a great tape. And at this point in the show, and especially given what a great job Lucas did directing 17 … [*as Grayson sets off his Trouble*] ...That’s another cheap Trouble to produce, sound is cheap, shaky cameras are cheap ... um, anyway what I wanted to say is I’m really glad we cast him and really glad Lucas nominated him. I just remember that there’s always that slight nervousness you get when somebody on the show, who isn’t a producer, nominates someone for a role. Not because you expect them to be worse than normal, but because if they are, then you have to tell someone who you respect, that you can’t cast them. So it was really great that Lucas nominated the best person for the role and we cast him. AH: And another thing we should mention is that Emily Rose does know American Sign Language. SW: Oh yes! She does. AH: And she’s an ambassador I believe for them, in some way. So that’s one of the reasons we wanted to, you know, utilise some of the skills that our actors have.

[*Duke and Hailie about to rob a bank*] AH: It’s nice that Halifax is actually Halifax. SW: Yeah, how often does Halifax actually get played for Halifax. AH: Very seldom. It does look like our ferns though. SW: Yes and I think it’s our signs too. AH: That’s a cheap effect [as Hailie disappears into the wall] but it looks well done.

[*Nathan to Audrey: You’re stealing my line now? When you went into the Barn, I was willing to risk anything to keep you with me while you faced your fate head-on.] SW: Props to our show runner Gabrielle Stanton who, as we were breaking this story, pointed out that that was what the flip was, and then we throttled into it. I hadn’t quite realised but then she pointed out that we were doing the opposite of what had been done before. So then we wrote to it, which was cool. AH: It’s neat because we continue to pay off on that decision he made about the Barn later in other episodes SW: Yeah. All of season four was about it, in a way. But oh yeah also later episodes in this season.

AH: One of the things I liked about these episodes was everyone had something to do. Everybody had something incredibly important to take care of. SW: Yeah the stakes are high. We’re just throttlin up stakes all the way.

[*As the poltergeist Trouble shuts Dwight and Charlotte in the dark.] AH: This was nice to have what seems like an innocent Trouble

AH: I like this relationship [Audrey and Grayson] SW: Yeah and Shernold really runs with it in 17. Look for Shernold’s name on other shows to come. She next appears on a show that has stolen rampantly from us … AH: *laughing* SW: … whether they know it or not [imdb would seem to indicate that her next job after Haven was Sleepy Hollow]

SW: I’m just so impressed with Lucas’s work in this episode. These two episodes, because as he was shooting these two episodes he was prepping 17 as a director. And when you see 17, if you have a directorial eye, you will see it is really, really planned. He knew what he was doing, and he brings some real beauty and attention and design and precision to the show. Which means he was working his butt off. AH: Yeah. And we tried to give him some time off to prep, but at the same time - he’s number two on the call sheet. SW: Well and 16 is his episode in a way.

[*As Tony’s Trouble starts to ramp up*] SW: This was thankless. To make one room get darker from the outside in. My apologies to Rick [the director], Jennifer Stewart our production designer, Eric Cayla our DP - you all did great. This was not easy. Very hard to pull off AH: Yeah because it wasn’t smoky or inky or anything, it was just dark. And it’s a good twist here that Tony the prosecutor is actually responsible. SW: When it comes down to it, about half the Troubles are about denial.

[*Dwight trying to break out of the shed*] AH: The silence says so much here. SW: And this was important to us in the room. Because, Dwight broke some relationships at the end of season 5A to believe in Charlotte’s science. So we really wanted to make sure that it actually meant something in the end, so her reveal wasn’t just a betrayal of their romantic relationship, it was also a betrayal of the cure that he believed in. AH: And he’s invested so much.

AH: Oh and here’s Nathan’s speech. And the intercut here [between the speech and Audrey talking down Tony] worked really well. SW: It’s nifty to write quite a long monologue for a character who never talks. AH: Yeah, he’s so quiet. SW: I love that line in the first season where Audrey says something about how his clipped sentences … I can’t think of the exact line, but. AH: Yeah it’s a clever line but [can’t remember it either] SW: And I thought about Eric Taylor in Friday Night Lights, writing this. AH: That’s a good touchstone because it’s another very quiet person who needs to give those big motivational speeches. SW: Right. To a community. AH: And again I just love the intercut here [to Dwight and Charlotte] of how all the stories come together. It’s well designed. SW: Smooch! Don’t you want them [Dwight and Charlotte] to smooch? And we had five seconds of screen darkness there, that’s great. And we had the five seconds of silence earlier. Things you’re not supposed to do. AH: But it worked so well.

[*As Charlotte looks through the wooden slats to the space beyond filled with aether*] SW: It was Rick’s idea how to shoot this which was really cool, with this VFX shot to get a huge amount of aether. It was scripted as a ‘stadium sized cavern’ full of aether, and there you get the idea that there’s just insane amounts of it. AH: Yeah wow, that was well shot.

[*As Hailie reappears out of the bank with the money*] SW: We originally wanted to do this on a yacht, where she actually phased through the side of the hull. But it didn’t work for locations. AH: I love that, just as you wrote it with the blood spatter on Duke’s face. He’s got no choice in the matter again. SW: Shark eyes. [Hailie to Duke: What are you doing?] SW: Resisting the urge to kill you.

[*As Audrey asks Tony where he got the info in his notebook*] AH: It was so interesting to work on this story line with the notebook because we had set some of this up in 5 and 6 and there was so much being planted there that doesn’t really come out until 10 episodes later; by the time they air it’ll be over a year later.

[Vince; And the verdict is … *Kira returns*] AH: How can he be guilty of killing someone if she’s still alive? SW: The best of TV timing.

[Dwight to Nathan: That’s a hell of a lot of aether you found] AH: He’s vindicated in so many ways.

[*Hailie running from Duke and into the shipping container*] SW: She was supposed to have the money with her in this scene, but for some reason she doesn’t so we had to write around it. AH: Yeah she didn’t have it any more SW: Ooops.

SW: I can’t remember how we did Duke’s black eyes - was it totally VFX or did we go with contacts? AH: VFX. We wanted to go with contacts, and Eric wanted to use contacts, but we just decided it would be easier to go with VFX.

[*Dwight and Charlotte sharing milk and cookies*] AH Oh I love this scene! This was one of my favourites. It’s their night under the stars romantic dinner - with milk cartons. SW: At the last minute they cut the line that I really liked. Charlotte says ‘I like your hand’ and then would have said ‘There’s a lot I’d like to do with it.’ But they cut it - we were just getting too randy in the writer’s room AH: I think we need an uncut edition SW: That’s right - a writer’s cut.

AH: In the original break, before we knew what the next episode was going to be, you had a great turn at the end of the episode where Nathan would be found guilty. But that did not line up with the next episode.

IT’S ONLY FOREVER: THE ETERNALS RECAP PART 1

ALONE IN THE UNIVERSE: THE ETERNALS ISSUE 1

Jack Kirby is the king of comics for many reasons, like his peerless art, boundless creativity, and frightening productivity. Also probably his amazing narration skills. Check out Mister Miracle to see what I really mean. But you can also check out The Eternals, which opens with the most powerful question of all:

“IS MAN ALONE IN THE UNIVERSE?”

If you’re a thoughtful Marvel comics reader, though, you might recognize a flaw in this question. The year was 1976, and it had been 14 years since Jack Kirby conclusively answered that question in Fantastic 4 Volume 1 Issue 2, “The Skrulls From Outer Space.” Mankind is not alone in the Marvel Universe, because there are Skrulls and Galactus and Impy the Impossible Man. Likewise, Jack Kirby had also already told us mankind is not alone on the Earth, because he has written comics featuring Atlanteans (like Attuma) and mutants (like Unus the Untouchable) and Inhumans (like Aireo).

So what’s the deal? Well....

Literally in this first line, I realized something no one has ever said about the Eternals before: this book is not supposed to take place in the Marvel Universe.

Mankind is not alone in the universe, but the Eternals are alone in their own Universe.

This thought is something we’ll be tracking throughout our read-through. I’ll tell you now, there’s more evidence coming soon, notably that Not A Single Other Marvel Character Even Cameos In This Book.

Depicted: The kind of thing the Fantastic 4 usually would handle

Look, it makes sense. Kirby did not like having his characters messed with. We know he resented the way his ideas got treated once he was gone, and we know he desperately wanted to make his Own Thing. That was the point of New Gods, right? Kirby wanted to carve out his own part of the DC Multiverse; he wanted to tell one complete story that no one else could meddle in. And he tried, but then they did.

So it obviously makes sense that Kirby would want to just have his own little sandbox to get cosmic in, without needing Reed Richards to explain why the Celestials can’t just be threatened with the Ultimate Nullifier this time.

But it explains, already, one narration box in, why this comic feels like such a weird fit in the Marvel Universe. It isn’t about Skrulls or Kree or Kronans. You’ll see that it doesn’t really mesh with Marvel’s everyman themes. This is something new.

This is...well, it’s...something.

There’s probably more worldbuilding in this issue than in any other single issue of any comic, but the plot that happens is basically just a lot of people going to South America. Which is fine, I guess. We’ll talk about the plot later, but let’s take this time to establish some of the primary lore elements we’ve learned so far.

Eons ago, unknowable space gods called the Celestials came to Earth. They saw apes, and like any unreasonably powerful godlike beings, they decided to evolve them into three forms. 

Depicted: Some Deviant art

Humans are pretty run-of-the-mill. The Jolteons of the crew, if you will. You know them: they love to cause problems on purpose and on accident. The second bunch are the Deviants.  They aren’t artists who love Sonic the Hedgehog, but horrific monstrosities who love doing evil. Flareon, of course. And lastly, the Vaporeons: the Eternals. The Space Gods’ greatest triumph. We learn in this issue that the Eternals are beautiful, cannot die, can hover, shoot lasers out of their eyes, and probably do whatever. Then the Celestials left, only to return semi-regularly to check in on their cool evolutions. Throughout history, Eternals and Deviants have appeared in human legends as gods, heroes, monsters, and demons. And now, in 1976, we are finally becoming aware of this fact as the Celestials return to cast their final judgment on all three species.

They’re doing this in some incredibly-cool-looking Kirby space ruins, located in an Inca temple. Cultural appropriation is obviously a big problem in all Ancient Alien comics, but I can’t deny that the visuals are the best part of the Eternals.

Depicted: South America is basically space

We meet a few characters as well, who are going to show up a few times. The Professor and his daughter Margo are our two main humans. He’s studying ancient history, and has agreed to let a mysterious man named Ike Harris show him these ancient ruins.

Who is Ike Harris? Well, if you say that name really quickly, and pronounce the “I” incorrectly, you’ll realize he’s Ikaris the Eternal, in disguise to try to get to the Andes to send a beacon to guide the space gods back to Earth. We don’t know much about Ikaris yet, aside from that he’s a handsome blond man who can shoot lasers out of his eyes and rearrange the atoms in the air to turn it into a solid wall.

Also joining the fray in this issue are Kro and Tode of the Deviants. Kro looks like how the devil looks when he shows up in certain Twilight Zone episodes, except he has the sunglasses that the Koopa Troopas wear in the early Paper Mario games, and Tode looks like Jabba the Hutt with arms and legs. The Deviants have a couple of key problems. One is that they can’t produce consistently-viable offspring and are instead breeding Deviants who are basically just Humans. The other is that they don’t want the Celestials to return to Earth, presumably because they’ve been naughty and they’ll get in big trouble.

Depicted: Kro’s parents

Also they live at the bottom of the ocean and shoot down airplanes for no real reason.

So the last thing you need to know is that Kro and his henchmen ride a submarine through a stone dragon’s mouth to reach these Inca ruins from underwater, which is a little weird when you remember that most Incan structures are several hundred miles above seawater.

And then, here we are: Humans! Deviants! And Eternals! Together in an Incan ruin, with the Celestials on their way.

It’s a dense issue. We literally learn all of these facts here, and still have time for Kro to try shooting Ikaris with a laser gun. I have no idea how quickly they’re gonna attempt to explain all of this in a major motion picture, but we’ll worry about that later on I guess. For now, we’re left off an exciting cliffhanger: the Celestials are on their way back to Earth, and no one knows if that’s good or bad!!

We aren’t alone in the Universe, but I’m kinda thinking things were an awful lot simpler when we were.

And coming next issue...Does Jack Kirby know any Inca mythology anyway?

For the OC ask: Aidan, Niner, Q, Ian, and Lauren, if you please. :)

Full Name: Ian Alan Grayson

Gender and Sexuality: Male, straight

Pronouns: He/him

Ethnicity/Species: White, human.

Birthplace and Birthdate: Undetermined date, somewhere in Tennessee.

Guilty Pleasures: Twinkies. 

Phobias: He’s not afraid, exactly, but deep or fast-moving water sometimes sets off a “what if I tripped or something grabbed me” hypothetical scenario in his head. Swimming pools are fine, shallow streams are cool, lakes are usually okay, but oceans or any river that goes deeper than his waist can worry him. 

What They Would Be Famous For: He hopes to be reasonably well-known as a musician someday. His inability to sing well is a bit of an obstacle, he’ll admit, but he’s got ideas for an instrumental guitar album of original songs he’s working on.

What They Would Be Arrested For: There’s been a couple times where he’s driven into a restricted area by accident. So far, it’s never been anywhere serious enough to get him in actual trouble, but it’s a concern Lauren has expressed on multiple occasions.

OC You Ship Them With: No one at present.

OC Most Likely to Murder Them: None of them, though Lauren has threatened to once or twice.

Favorite Movie/Book Genre: Ian likes really old classics and comic books -- big epics with larger-than-life characters. He also likes sci-fi or fantasy drama shows.

Least Favorite Movie/Book Cliche: It was all just a dream.

Talents and/or Powers: Music, particularly guitar. Getting lost. Annoying people who are rude or hurtful to others.

Why Someone Might Love Them: Easy-going, funny, a great listener, supportive but won’t take any bull, and willing to step in when someone needs help or someone else is being awful and needs to stop.

Why Someone Might Hate Them: If you deliberately hurt someone, especially one of Ian’s friends, he is very, very good at being obnoxious.

How They Change: Haven’t gotten there yet. 

Why You Love Them: At its zenith, Ian’s story had maybe four paragraphs in it, but he has become such a distinctive character anyway.

Full Name: Lauren Eleanor Winston

Gender and Sexuality: Female, straight

Pronouns: She/her

Ethnicity/Species: White, human.

Birthplace and Birthdate: Undetermined, somewhere in Tennessee.

Guilty Pleasures: Cigarettes. It’s not precisely a pleasure, but every time she coughs or sees an anti-smoking ad, she definitely feels guilty.

Phobias: Chasing away everyone and ending up alone.

What They Would Be Famous For: Like Ian, she hopes to be a famous musician someday. She’d rather get into the classical music scene than bluegrass, but for now, it’s what she’s got.

What They Would Be Arrested For: Nothing serious. When she blows up at people, it cools down relatively quick, and she’s got enough of a grip on it that she would never hit someone or throw something dangerous at them.

OC You Ship Them With: No one at present.

OC Most Likely to Murder Them: She’s certainly aggravated more people than Ian has, but not to the point of murder.

Favorite Movie/Book Genre: She doesn’t read a lot, and when she does, it’s usually something she read and liked as a child, so technically Children’s. 

Least Favorite Movie/Book Cliche: If you kill this one person, you are as bad as the mass-murdering villain/the villain says “You and I aren’t so different after all” and the hero admits they’re right

Talents and/or Powers: Music, particularly piano. Strategy games. She can also write nice poetry, but she doesn’t see the value in it yet.

Why Someone Might Love Them: Lauren has an instinctive sensitivity to justice, and will get just as angry on someone else’s behalf as her own if she believes an injustice has been committed. She doesn’t let disapproval or confrontation stop her. 

Why Someone Might Hate Them: She is not an easy person to get along with, and can take things too personally.

How They Change: Not certain yet.

Why You Love Them: Same as Ian.

Full Name: Niner

Gender and Sexuality: Female, whatever.

Pronouns: She/her, “hey you”

Ethnicity/Species: Werecat

Birthplace and Birthdate: Birthdate, sometime in the summer, twenty-odd years ago. Birthplace … dunno. South of where she lives now. Probably east, too.

Guilty Pleasures: Hot, melted cheese. Batting around a ball of yarn. Snuggling up with Connie in cat-form (he’s so warm).

Phobias: Not a fan of being wet, or thunderstorms. On a deeper level, getting trapped or otherwise losing her independence.

What They Would Be Famous For: Nothing, really. She has no particular talents or skills that lend themselves to fame, and she would actively avoid fame if she did.

What They Would Be Arrested For: To be arrested, she would first have to be caught doing it, and then actually caught. Both of which would be very difficult to do.

OC You Ship Them With: No one at present

OC Most Likely to Murder Them: She and Aidan … have issues sometimes.

Favorite Movie/Book Genre: Not much of a reader or movie-watcher.

Least Favorite Movie/Book Cliche: The occasional TV show or movie has caught her interest for a little while, and none of them lose it faster than those where a character changes themselves for the approval of others. Even if the story ultimately has the moral that you shouldn’t do that, Niner will never know, because she won’t be watching anymore.

Talents and/or Powers: She can turn into a cat. As far as Niner is concerned, she doesn’t need anything else.

Why Someone Might Love Them: Niner has her own ideas of who she is, and takes zero input on who she is supposed to be. 

Why Someone Might Hate Them: Niner has her own ideas of who she is, and takes zero input on who she is supposed to be.

How They Change: Not sure yet.

Why You Love Them: I don’t think any of my other OCs are quite so determinedly independent. 

Full Name: Quincy Odell Free

Gender and Sexuality: Male, straight

Pronouns: He/him

Ethnicity/Species: White (English), human

Birthplace and Birthdate: Somewhere in England, July 3, 1989.

Guilty Pleasures: There aren’t many things he enjoys he would admit to -- less because they’re guilty pleasures he’s embarrassed about, and more because he is very cautious about opening up to people. That said, there is an animated kids show he really liked that he has episodes of saved on his computer that he will never, ever tell anyone about.

Phobias: Both afraid of being known and manipulated through it, and living his entire life without ever forming a real connection. 

What They Would Be Famous For: If he wanted, he could suck up enough to his aunt and uncle to get named the heir to their hundreds of millions of dollars worth of real estate, businesses, corporations, foundations, etc. 

What They Would Be Arrested For: Nothing terribly dramatic, and once it happened his aunt and uncle would most likely cover it up or sweep it under the rug as soon as possible.

OC You Ship Them With: No one at present

OC Most Likely to Murder Them: They would never dirty their hands by actually doing it themselves, but if Q was stupid enough to cross his aunt and uncle, there could definitely be an … accident … in his future.

Favorite Movie/Book Genre: Fantasy or adventure stories, the more exciting and epic the better, and with happy endings.

Least Favorite Movie/Book Cliche: Evil twins/evil mentors/bad guys disguised as good guys in general. He has nothing against morally gray characters or believable development from hero to villain or villain to hero, but most of the time the “this guy was evil all along!/the characters are fooled by the villain!” tropes feel like cheating for manufactured drama.

Talents and/or Powers: He’s picked up a lot of odd knowledge and abilities from his education and time spent with his family, most notably an excellent poker face, understanding of human body language, and generally able to persuade people to do what he wants them to -- not that he uses it often.

Why Someone Might Love Them: He’s got that “confused everyman in weird circumstances” thing going on that a lot of people seem to like. If you really got to know him, underneath his bland, indifferent attitude, he’s incredibly loyal.

Why Someone Might Hate Them: Q doesn’t really make enough of an impression on most people to be worth hating.

How They Change: Basically, learns that not everyone is like his aunt and uncle: learns to open up more, accept help, and connect emotionally with other people.

Why You Love Them: He’s got an interesting background that’s shaped him in interesting ways, and he manages to be an everyman compared to his roommates while being an outlier for the rest of humanity.

Thanks for asking!

I find the title of this article quite misleading (as they often are) but for the links sake I kept it. IMAO it’s been chosen to get a reaction out of people. Martin talks about so much here. His roles in Black Panther, Sherlock, Fargo, Startup, personal things, his new TV series Breeders, being a mod, music etc. 

Read for yourself:

“In a reversal of usual Hollywood practice, Martin Freeman stars as one of only two white characters in a predominantly black film. He plays a CIA agent on the trail of a villain in the superhero blockbuster Black Panther. The other white actor is his Hobbit co-star Andy Serkis. As a result, the two were known on set as “the Tolkien white guys”.

“Yes, that was quite funny,” agrees Freeman, over a sushi lunch. His character, Everett Ross, is also on the receiving end of one of the film’s best lines – “Don’t try and scare me, coloniser!” – after he bumps into Shuri, a princess in the mythical African kingdom in which the film is set.

But Freeman was keen that Agent Ross should be more than the beleaguered operator that appears in the original Marvel comics, saying he didn’t want to play another “goofy white guy among cool black people going ‘What the hell?’” So he discussed fleshing out his character with director Ryan Coogler.

“And he was completely on board with that,” says Freeman. “I had no interest in [playing a thin character] any more than a black actor would have had interest – as they have been for many years – in being a one-or two-dimensional black character.”

Freeman thinks we’ll be seeing more of Everett Ross in the Marvel cinematic universe. But he isn’t sure if that will mean he and Sherlockco-star Benedict Cumberbatch – who plays Marvel’s Doctor Strange in the franchise – will ever share big-screen time. Nor is he sure if he and Cumberbatch will be reunited on the small screen any time soon.

The fourth series of Sherlock finished in January 2017 amid a flurry of negative headlines accusing the once highly acclaimed show of having become convoluted and over-the-top. How did Freeman feel about the backlash?

“Um, we’re British. We basically want everyone to die after the first album,” he says. Yet he thinks some of the critics may have had a point. “To be absolutely honest, it [was] kind of impossible. Sherlock became the animal that it became immediately. Whereas even with The Office [the Ricky Gervais comedy that launched Freeman’s career] it was a slow burn. But Sherlock was frankly notably high quality from the outset. And when you start [that high] it’s pretty hard to maintain that.”

He seems more frustrated by speculation among the show’s rabid fan base that Watson and Sherlock are in love. “There was a chunk of people who just knew it was going to end with us getting together,” he says, still sounding exasperated 15 months after the last episode was broadcast.

For the record, then: “Me and Ben, we have literally never, never played a moment like lovers. We ain’t f------ lovers,” he says forcefully.

Have they discussed a fifth series?

“Not massively. Um… I think after series four [it] felt like a pause. I think we felt we’d done it for a bit now. And part of it, speaking for myself is [due to] the reception of it.”

Rather than the criticism, he means the exceptional personal pressure he found himself under as a result of the show’s success. “Being in that show, it is a mini-Beatles thing,” he says. “People’s expectations, some of it’s not fun any more. It’s not a thing to be enjoyed, it’s a thing of: ‘You better f------ do this, otherwise you’re a c---.’ That’s not fun any more,” he repeats.

The actual reason for our meeting is to talk about Freeman’s new compilation album, Jazz on the Corner, which he has put together with old friend Eddie Piller, the founder of revered label Acid Jazz.

The pair co-hosted a show on independent station Soho Radio a couple of years ago: two hours of “digging in the crates” for beloved old jazz records to play. There was such a positive response to it, that Piller suggested an album.

“And it was nice. It’s just a good excuse to delve through some jazz records at home and kid yourself that, ‘I’m doing this for this work purposes’.”

The actor is a Mod to the soles of his well-shod shoes, but Freeman was keen to break out of the confines of the culture and “go jazz”.

“There are some, for want of a better word, Mods who can’t talk about anything else. Totally mono-cultural. And that drives me totally barmy.”

He himself grew up on the fusion of ska and punk rock that dominated the early Eighties. “Catholicism and Two Tone were my twin religions as a kid,” he grins. “I was crazy about it. I went mad over Madness and The Beat and the Specials. It was great music that managed to touch 19-year-olds and nine-year-olds.”

It’s music first and foremost that keeps him sane in the long hours of downtime on film sets, particularly on huge and laborious productions like the Atlanta-based Black Panther.

His long absences away from home are rumoured to be among the reasons for his split from his partner and Sherlock co-star Amanda Abbington, with whom he has two young children, in 2016. He admits now that juggling work with home life has always been tricky. “Even when Amanda and I were together I was very picky [over what I did]. I even thought about [not doing] The Hobbit! I was thinking, ‘Hmm, that’s a long time away from two little kids…’”

Has the split made him change his attitude to his career? “No, it hasn’t massively impacted on my life. I’m determined to do things that I want to do. And not do the things I don’t want to do. And me and Amanda will always find a way of making it work, because we’re very supportive of each other.”

Freeman is currently single, which might help explain his raft of recent projects, including Black Panther, the jazz album, last year’s West End play Labour of Love, an Australian zombie movie for Netflix called Cargo and new BBC sitcom Breeders.

Created by and starring Freeman, Breeders is about “the stuff in parenting that nice middle-class people just don’t want to talk about, and almost never do," he says. "And I can’t quite believe it. I can’t have serious conversations with parents who don’t admit that sometimes they want to throw themselves out of a window – for real!

“I realised when my kids were very, very young that I couldn’t have any more nice north London conversations about how fantastic it was. Yes, of course it is – you love your kids more than anything in the world. But sometimes you want to kill everyone in your house.”

Part of his recent output would also seem to be driven by a desire to remove himself as much as possible from the ‘everyman’ persona he first cultivated as Tim in The Office, a persona he has vocally resented being labelled with ever since. Recent roles have been grubbier and dirtier, from his mild-mannered insurance man who descends into murder in Channel 4’s Fargo, to the Amazon drama StartUp, in which he played “a bent FBI agent”.

“I really enjoyed doing that,” he says eagerly of StartUp. “In Fargo you saw a guy who at the start was not psychopathic and was not mental. But in StartUp he begins there. This was not an, ‘ooh, he’s an everyman, but he’s taken a turn…’ No, he’s really dark. And I really loved that.

Did it unlock any inner demons?

“Nope,” he shoots back with a smile. “In my job I think that’s exactly how you exorcise things, because you get to do it on the set. Not that I’m never a complete p---k in real life – I am a complete p---k in real life sometimes, but probably less than I would be if I didn’t have this job.”

OUAT 2X13 - Tiny

Hey, reader! Your TINY-ing couldn’t be better to check out my latest review! XD

Yeah, not my best pun, but it’s not too GIANT of a misstep! XD

COMEBACK!

Now go under the cut and read my review!

Press Release

Kidnapped and brought to Storybrooke by Cora, the Giant unleashes his vengeance on the town when a case of mistaken identity leads him to try and settle an old score with David; Mr. Gold, accompanied by Emma and Henry, attempts to depart Storybrooke - hoping to keep his memory intact when he crosses the town line – and heads to the airport in search of his son Bae; and Greg (Ethan Embry) questions Belle as to what she saw on the night of his car accident. Meanwhile, in the fairytale land that was and against his brothers’ wishes, Anton, the Giant, climbs down the beanstalk and attempts to befriend some humans - whose intentions may not be so noble. General Thoughts - Characters/Stories/Themes and Their Effectiveness Past I really like the conflict in this episode and how it relates to the present later on. We clearly know the outcome of Anton’s voyage to the human world, but Anton never feels like he’s being foolish in this flashback. Anton’s research, kind heart, and inquisitive nature are not being satisfied (And as often implied, even mocked and bullied) by his siblings. But, in that same token, they are not completely cast as bad either. Anton clearly cares for them, and his oldest sibling is shown to be wise in many ways and it’s his lesson of seeking another land that proves to be the key to Anton’s eventual happiness and livelihood in the present.

James’ and Jack’s plan is a great one. That plotting is devious. The staging of it all was well done enough that it doesn’t feel contrived, but understanding of the kind of person Anton is and malleable enough account for missteps. Just go back and watch the bar scene. James has his outburst at the guard just loud enough so that Anton hears him, and of course, Anton, the curious guy that he is, would ask about why. Jack just happens to bring up the subject of beans and while Anton can’t help her in that regard, what else are giants known for? Their treasure, something Anton can be far more generous with. And give him enough motivation and he’ll go right over there with the bare minimum security. It’s honestly one of the best and most underrated evil plans on the show. It’s simple, but intelligently suited to its victim. Present I love the Storybrooke section of this episode! Anton, while the antagonist in this segment to David’s protagonist story, is never made to be a bad guy because the entire time we’re with him attacking, we’re aware of his plight. Because of that, we want him to pull through and get along with everyone and the episode gives that emotional payoff while still ensuring that Anton does learn his lesson about humans. David is in his best form throughout the episode, kind and compassionate but not without his limits and Snow acts as a great source of support and friendship while Leroy rounds out the trio with his comedy and everyman presence in town (And later on, surprising amount of heart).

It’s so great to see the people of Storybrooke acting as a unit again during the rescue and aftermath of Anton. It reminds me of the efforts made in episodes like “A Still Small Voice” and it fits into the story well as a bulk of humans are able to prove themselves to Anton at once.

Also, let’s talk about the airport scenes, but it helps make this episode so memorable. The security scene is both so hysterical at first and so tense and terrifying once the shawl comes off, even after the safe resolution. That having been said, I will say, I wish things were a little bit clearer as to why Rumple was freaking out even after he retained his memories. I can’t help but feel like they were almost going to go for a different angle like actually having Rumple at one point revert to his cursed self (Note how Rumple places so much emphasis on how important it was for him to keep his true identity), but it was abandoned. Otherwise, what was the purpose of the freakouts because we only got a few seconds of waviness as he was crossing through security before getting the shawl back? I like the idea of Rumple freaking out over not having his magic for the first time since the curse broke and realizing that his mortality is back, but what brought it on and how it was handled was weird. All Encompassing This segment is also notable in the fact that not only is it Anton’s first and only centric, but it is the first time that we really see the distinctions between David and James. Before, we saw a bit of James before his death, but while bits of him can be understood with the aid of hindsight, but this is where the character was truly defined for the first time. Whereas David so often acts for the betterment of his people and even those who oppose him (to the point where he attempts to sacrifice himself for Storybrooke’s safety and then later endangers himself for Anton’s sake), James is only interested in himself and won’t lift so much as a finger to help someone if it puts him in danger. Insights - Stream of Consciousness -”I think layers are always a good idea!” Nice subtle showing of Mama Swan! -I don’t know why, but it cracks me up how Rumple’s covering the expenses of their trip! XD Charming summed it up best: “You’re a real gentleman, aren’t you?” -”This isn’t a threat, it’s a request. Take care of them.” Aww! I love that extra bit of Sheep Bros! And Rumple actually responds to it! -I like also how Rumple’s being much more overt to Emma and co about who it is he’s looking for. I’m going to call that a slight development in his emotional honesty. -David, I am with Snow. That holster looks great on you! -Regina needs to join the Storybrooke acting troupe alongside Killian, Cora, and Rumple. Actually, someone make a fic out of this! Please? -”And we’re sorry.” I love how Snow completely follows through on her resolve from the previous episode. -First Captain Charming scene! Yayyyyy!! Honestly, it’s just as perfect as I’d hoped it would be! -Not gonna lie, I don’t even think it’s a shipping thing, but seeing Killian flirt with Snow like he does by the cops doesn’t flow with me at all. It’s just creepy, and I feel bad saying that, but it just is for me. -I never realized before that The Jolly Roger is made from Enchanted Wood. That’s pretty cool! -Anton is an adorable little bean! -I just realized: Now that the realms are merged, is Anton essentially out of a job, or are the beans the equivalent of teleportation now? Like, if I want to visit Elsa from Granny’s, can I just throw a bean and be right there? And if so, then Anton is now a multi-millionaire and I just couldn’t be happier for the guy! -Watching this flashback makes me hate the flashback in “Flower Child” so forking much. Everything that is done wrong there is done right here. -Holy shirt! Anton can punch! Like, get him on the main team! -The set up of the mystery of why Anton hates David is a very well done one for as brief as it is. It gives the audience a moment to establish how Emma’s actions have shown Anton that some humans aren’t evil as well as the fact that Anton isn’t a bad guy, but showing a clear snapping point for him. -Red Beauty! Yayyyyyy! -Hospital staff: It’s probably not a great idea to have “Good Morning Storybrooke” playing when you have two patients who aren’t supposed to know about magic. -Awww! Ruby loves books too, and reads from Belle’s favorite author! She’s just too sweet! -”Why does everyone keep calling me that?” ...Because it’s your name and you haven’t said anything along the lines of “my name is Lacey.” Introduce yourself! -James just has no shame! He’s about to have sex, his dad comes in, and he’s practically about to continue on! -I feel so bad for Anton! He so has a crush on Jack, and Jack’s just...well, not the worst, but definitely in the top 50 worst. -”How terribly uncivilized.” Rumple, you used to live in a world without indoor plumbing. You’re one to talk! -”Have you ever been on a plane before?” Have you ever been impaled upon a cane before?” That is forking hysterical and will never not be! XD -”You father?” Rumple, you are close to a century older than Emma! Yeah, you could be her dad! XD -Has anyone ever commented on how there’s literally no reason for the shawl to go into the bin. It’s not metal. Am I missing something here? -I want that roasted pig so badly! -”You’re human. I hate humans.” Part of me is thrown a little off base with this line. On one hand, Anton does what humans, but when David, Snow, and Leroy found him, he was more relaxed. However, I’m willing to waive it off to him getting his bearings upon waking up in a strange land. -Oh, shirt! Rumple can’t heal himself! BLOODY HELL! XD -That light is so unflattering for Robert right in the bathroom scene. -The entire conversation between Anton, David, and Snow concerning Emma and James is hysterical. As far as miscommunication scenarios go on this show, this is one of the best. And the follow up conversation between David, Snow, and Leroy over David’s name is equally so! XD -Don’t worry, Anton! Just HOLE-d on! XD -Awww! Look at Anton learning how to use a pickaxe! Anton, never change! Arcs - How are These Storylines Progressing? Regina’s Redemption - It is so hard to watch as Regina double crosses everyone in this episode. I don’t think it’s poorly done, and MM and David’s lines about not needing Regina’s say about Henry make the betrayal a well set up ad effective one. It builds well off of the last couple of episodes and while a touch accelerated around this part, I do think that the overall pacing works here. The People of Storybrooke Going Home - So this arc was really introduced during “The Cricket Game,” I believe. So far, I’m not sure how well it’s being set up, but I will say that this is the clearest the the arc itself has been defined since its inception. Favorite Dynamic David and Anton - David’s interactions with Anton are a true testament to his kindness and leadership abilities. Anton punches him in the face and refuses to cooperate with any attempts David makes to reason with him and yet David simply doesn’t give up on helping him the right way because of who he is. Additionally, how he rallies the entire town together for that same cause is inspiring. He knows the damage his “father” did and he wants those affected by him in any way (even through his progeny) to be helped, no matter what it takes. And on Anton’s side, just like with Emma, he’s receptive to that kindness and the belief in David doesn’t come from just simple information or evidence, but from David’s straight-up actions of offering himself up as a sacrifice and later saving him, and that’s so amazing! Writer Christine Boylan and Kalinda Vazquez are “Tiny’s” writers, and this is a great team up. The pacing of this episode feels very good, moving so that things aren’t rushed, but the stories remain flowing. Additionally, the framing of the writing is quite intricate, careful to not make anyone a bad guy but to also direct the sympathy where it is deserved. Additionally, the manner of Anton’s forgiveness (Both to him and from him) is expertly handled through the actions of the entire town saving Anton from the hole and him helping everyone grow beans. Rating 10/10. I love this episode’s story. Anton is a likable and layered character to follow and his journey with Ruth’s twins across the two timelines is equally layered. The story itself is very lowkey in comparison to some of our previous episodes, and it’s a welcome change of pace! It’s a super simple, yet quite detailed character story that allows for a lot to be done with James, Snow, Charming, and Leroy’s characters. Seeing all of these characters build off one another is what Once Upon a Time does best and the hearty story makes it all the better. While I didn’t find the storytelling at the airport to be as airtight (pun always intended) as the other segments (Ergo, why this isn’t a Golden Apple), the scenes on their own can be super entertaining (Especially EVERYTHING with Rumple in the first half of the security scene). Flip My Ship - Home of All Things “Shippy Goodness” Snowing - It’s just really nice seeing Snow and David working together! They’re so supportive and protective of each other, ranging from hugs to verbally helping each other during discussions with Anton, Hook, and each other over the differences between David and James. Snow and Charming are always expressing their love in some way, and it’s so subtly heartwarming. And hearing Snow talk about how she had fun today and missed their little adventures as she dances around him and the sidewalk is just great! Grumpy Giant - Freakin’ hollythecurious got me into the swing of this ship, and I love it and her for introducing it to me! XD Look at Grumpy’s adoring looks as he helps Anton get settled in to life in Storybrooke and how forward he is with his assistance. This is Grumpy we’re talking about and he’s rarely as likely to take the initiative in regards to introducing people to the town. And dammit, it’s so cute! Hell, he even moves the dwarves’ entire workforce to help Anton grow beans and calls them “our crop!” ()()()()()()()()() Thanks for reading and to the fine and fantastic folks at @watchingfairytales for their continued support and the project!

Wow! this season’s going great, but wow am I tired! Writing these long ash reviews is exhausting! You know what I could use? A drink. How about a Manhattan? ;)

See you next time.

Season 2 Tally (114/220) Writer Tally for Season 2: Adam Horowitz and Edward Kitsis: (29/60) Jane Espenson (25/50) Andrew Chambliss and Ian Goldberg (24/50) David Goodman (16/30) Robert Hull (16/30) Christine Boylan (17/30) Kalinda Vazquez (20/30) Daniel Thomsen (10/20)

Operation Rewatch Archives

Next Round: Inside the Tequila Boom With Rashidi Hodari of Beam Suntory

On this episode of “Next Round,” host Adam Teeter chats with Rashidi Hodari, managing director of tequila at Beam Suntory. Hodari begins by giving a brief overview of the tequila products offered at Beam Suntory, including Hornitos, El Tesoro, Tres Generaciones, and Sauza. Hodari and Teeter then discuss tequila’s recent dominance of the beverage alcohol market and why Beam Suntory is dipping its toe into the hard seltzer category.

Further, Hodari details Hornitos’ “A Fair Shot” and “A Shot Worth Taking” campaigns aimed at supporting immigration and providing financial support to entrepreneurs, respectively. Finally, Teeter and Hodari discuss the rise of celebrity tequila and its influence on the industry at large.

Tune in and visit https://www.beamsuntory.com/en to learn more.

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Or Check out the Conversation Here

Adam Teeter: From Brooklyn, N.Y., I’m Adam Teeter, and this is a “VinePair Podcast” conversation. Today, we are talking with Rashidi Hodari, the managing director of tequila at Beam Suntory. Rashidi, what’s going on, man? Thanks for joining me.

Rashidi Hodari: Thanks for having me. I couldn’t be more excited to be with you. I’m a big fan of VinePair and happy to be speaking with you. Tequila is as hot as it’s ever been.

A: Oh dude, totally.

R: Hard seltzers are as hot as they’ve ever been. Ready-to-drink cocktails as well. We’ve got all of our irons in the fires, trying to win big in all of those categories.

A: I can’t wait to talk to you, from a director’s perspective, about how you look at the market. These specific podcasts get listened to a lot by people in the industry, so insights from you are going to be awesome to unearth here. Before we jump into that, what does the role of managing director of tequila mean?

R: It’s everything from setting the long-term vision for what we’re going to do with our products in the category, how our brands are going to be developed, what we’re going to make, and how we’re going to win across the globe in tequila.

A: And what are your brands?

R: We have a wide range. I like to say it’s a democratized set of opportunities for tequila. Everything from the ultra-premium El Tesoro, super-premium Tres Generaciones. In the premium category, we have Hornitos, and we also have Sauza tequila.

A: OK, cool. Has Beam Suntory always been in the tequila game? How long has tequila been part of the portfolio?

R: Beam Suntory is a relatively young company. It’s been around five years.

A: Five years, right.

R: That happened when Suntory effectively acquired Beam, but it became a stand-up company. As part of that, Beam had always had Sauza. It had it for a significant number of years before that. If you know the history of tequila, Sauza is one of the founding families. We actually produce our tequila at the original site where the first tequilas were ever produced in Mexico, to this day. Our brands have been around and have been part of creating the tequila industry from the very beginning.

A: Interesting. Hornitos and El Tesoro, those all came after the acquisition?

R: No. If we go into the history of the brands, Hornitos was effectively launched as a brand that was premium tequila for the everyman. It was originally part of the Sauza family, but it was spun off as its own brand from Sauza. Then, Tres Generaciones is essentially a super-premium tequila that effectively takes tequila to places where it hadn’t gone at the time. Those are all part of one family, we call it our brand house. We’ve had that as part of our portfolio, and as the market has shifted and consumers have come to learn more about tequila, we’ve placed our bets on the premium part of our portfolio. El Tesoro is from a different family, the Camarena family. They have a long history of making very high-quality tequila as well. As we have developed and the category has grown, we’ve put more support and emphasis around making sure people understand all that tequila has to offer, so we’re trying to win across all of those different segments.

A: Interesting. El Tesoro always performs really well in our tastings. It’s a really good tequila. That’s also been inside the Beam Suntory family for at least a few years, right?

R: Yeah, I think it’s been close to 10 years. We’ve had a long-term relationship with them.

A: Cool. Obviously, you opened by saying that tequila is on fire. We obviously know that. All of our data through VinePair Insights has shown for the last few years that tequila is just trending up, up, up, up, up. The only thing it ever seems to lose to is bourbon. It’s good for you guys because that’s the other spirit you guys have. But I’m curious, what do you think is the reason for tequila’s dominant explosion in the last few years?

R: I think it’s been a slow burn, so to speak. It’s not a category that came out of nowhere; it’s been around. To a certain extent, it initially wasn’t something that people looked at with fondness. You have a fondness in terms of expectations of what the quality was. You effectively had Patrón set the table more than 15 years ago of tequila being more than just cheap alcohol. They set the table of a reappraisal. That reappraisal has happened year after year with new people coming into the category. The recognition is that the products are very, very good, and they meet a lot of different demands. If you look at how consumers consume the product in Mexico, it’s very telling to show that it is very much democratized. There is not an occasion, there’s not a time for alcohol consumption that doesn’t offer a way in for tequila. From high-end to everyday sessionability, tequila can find a way in. That versatility, I think, is what creates a lot of opportunities, especially in the United States, where there’s a lot of competition, there’s a lot of demand, but as that reappraisal happens people can find a tequila that meets their needs.

A: Do you think that there is an association with tequila among consumers as being a purer spirit or a better-for-you spirit than other alternatives?

R: I think that, along the path over the last few years, as health and wellness trends have increased and people get much more knowledgeable about what they’re putting in their bodies, tequila offers a very credible set of product attributes that lends itself with high credibility to that. But at the end of the day, it is alcohol. It’s the balance of what you want from a spirit, but also having the benefits that come from all the associations with agave. I think it gets the benefits of both of those. Then, people have to make a judgment call of what’s going to tip them over the edge in one direction or another.

A: Obviously, we’re moving beyond the decades ago the idea that it was a lime-salt-shot type of liquid and into a really fine, high-end sipping liquid. Everyone is super aware that the Margarita is the No. 1 cocktail in America, but what else are you seeing on your end? Dealing with consumers and positioning El Tesoro, Hornitos, etc., in terms of cocktails for tequila? Are there certain cocktails you’re seeing trending more than others? And if so, which ones are those? Again, besides the Margarita.

R: Yeah, I could probably get into the top cocktails. The first thing that comes to mind is the Paloma. However, I don’t want to overlook the Margarita and the Margarita’s versatility, flexibility, nuance, and ability to be made with a plata, reposado, or anejo. It is very different in which liqueur you add to it, whether it’s flavored or whether it’s something that’s very refined and high-quality. You’ve seen increases of Cognacs being added to Margaritas. There’s no limit to the fascination of having your custom and ideal Margarita. It’s part of the reason why we’re launching a new lineup of Margaritas with Hornitos. Additionally, you can talk about cocktails all you want, and even though we’ve moved away from salt, lime, and a shot, shots are still the No. 1 consumption of tequila. At the end of the day, it’s still a big part of the category’s DNA. People associate taking shots, having fun, and letting loose with it. I think in the past, it was a bit of an albatross that made people a little bit hesitant. I think it also in these times with the pandemic and with the pressures that are going on, people want that freedom, they want a release. That’s why we have our “A Shot Worth Taking” campaign. That’s why we have the Shot Fund to help inspire people to live their best lives, effectively. It’s also why we have a thing called a “A Fair Shot” of Hornitos, where we support folks taking the steps to become American citizens, because we know that living your best life and getting after it day-to-day is a meaningful thing that tequila has brought to the experience that people have when they go out to bars and restaurants, but it should be something that is available to everybody.

A: Ah, that makes a lot of sense. That is super cool. Has “A Fair Shot” campaign been always stuff that Hornitos has done and pushed forward?

R: We’ve been doing this for a few years, and I think it comes out of the idea when I gave a little bit of overview of the history of the brand and how it was set up to be effectively a premium tequila for the everyman. It was actually based on the idea that we make really good tequila. If everybody has not had it, we should find a way to get it for them. It’s one of the reasons why we were one of the first brands to export our tequila to the United States. It’s one of the reasons why we believe the power of the brand is unlocking people’s ability, their human potential, their ability to go for it, go for what’s next in life, to take a chance on things. We make sure that when we do programs, whether it’s “A Fair Shot” with supporting immigration or the “A Shot Worth Taking” where we’re supporting entrepreneurs, we’re being a catalyst for them making contributions to the world. I think that’s one of the things that is also interesting about tequila. There’s an energy there that people gravitate towards, and we want to make sure that we were contributing in a meaningful way to that experience and not just making it something that they regret in the morning.

A: That makes complete sense. Let’s talk a little about other innovations happening with tequila. Obviously, the other big trend besides tequila that’s been booming in the United States is hard seltzer. I’ve always been surprised that we haven’t seen more hard seltzers that are spirits-based. Obviously, there is High Noon, which is killing it, but there haven’t been a lot more yet, but that is changing. I think one of the most interesting aspects is combining a spirit that’s on fire, tequila, with the seltzer world. You guys have just released that with the Hornitos hard seltzer. Can you talk about how that decision came to be and what you were looking at in order to determine that you wanted to create a hard seltzer? Then, how does that fit into the brand family?

R: Yeah, I’d love to. It’s funny because as a bit of an aside, we’re on a podcast, but we’ve been living life in a virtual world for the last year. I can think back to some meetings that we had about a year ago, discussing what our brand’s aspirations were and what we needed to do. It really came down to trying to not just ride the wave of the success in the tequila category or seeing the wave that was also moving in hard seltzers, but then how do we need to act? How do we need to behave and what shots do we need to take as a company and as a brand to live our values in a way that helps us make our decisions and make choices about what we did? We said most spirit brands and most premium brands will shy away from going outside of their lane. They want to be really good at what they do. I think that’s totally respectable, but as a brand, Hornitos stands for taking shots. This is the one where people love tequila. People love seltzers. People love putting tequila in their seltzers. If you want to get after it and you want to enable and inspire people, take a shot on yourself. I think that ethos of taking a shot on ourselves and believing that we can stand next to the biggest players in hard seltzer — whether it’s spirit-based or not — with tequila and soda, tequila and seltzer, combined with that adjacent category, is a winning proposition. We just have to do it in the boldest and ambitious ways possible. That required getting buy-in from the organization and getting everybody lined up. Also, make sure that it is very clear that we’re not dipping our toe into this. If you look at the package, you see Hornitos is the biggest thing there because we want people to be proud. We want to be proud that this is a Hornitos seltzer. At the end of the day, we want to drive that passion in everything that we do. We want it to come across, and we want people to be proud to pick it up, to hold it, to drink it, and to pass it on to the next person.

A: When you were developing the culture, how much were you thinking about calorie count? How much were you thinking about calorie counts especially with respect to flavor? I know that’s something that I’ve talked to other people about as well who have developed seltzer brands. No one is really sure if seltzer exploded because of calories or because of flavor. You have seen new brands that are pushing more flavor, which often comes with higher calories, and they’re wondering if they’re going to be successful. What conversations did you have around that?

R: We said it’s got to taste good. It’s got to be awesome, and people have to want to talk about it. If you just go to the table stakes of what’s going on in the category, hitting a certain level of ABV, hitting a certain calorie count, and being quiet about your flavor, you’re going to get lost in the masses. We said, “What is the boldest way we can go out and make sure people love the way that it tastes?” Ultimately, we found that that difference was potentially 10 to 15 calories. We’re not expecting people to drink 15 of these, probably just a couple of them. That’s fine. We want people to be proud to drink these for that couple of cocktails we’re going to have in the evening. We thought about it, but we made deliberate choices about going with something that’s going to taste good.

A: I’m pretty sure I know the answer to this question, but I’m asking anyway. You have a bunch of brands that obviously want to be able to be sold everywhere, grocery, etc. So they took the brand name, but they went with a malt base. Was that ever a consideration for you? Are you guys OK that it might be a little bit harder for the consumer to get Hornitos as easily as maybe a White Claw or things like that?

R: I think it’s a consideration. I think it’s just being mindful in knowing the depth of your listener and serving the audience and the appreciation for the three-tier system. That is something that you can’t really operate in without fully appreciating the complexities of the three-tier system. We’re mindful that there is a ceiling on where we can get. Now, there’s an element of the price structure that also comes through, so I think we took that into account. But we also recognized that we want people to appreciate it, and I think it also gives us a little bit of license. As I said, we have a partnership with On the Rocks, a brand that we acquired last year where we have a Hornitos Margarita. We’re launching a Hornitos Margarita that is spirits-based. We want to basically make sure that when you have tequila and a desire for a premium tequila experience, you know that when you’re picking up something that has Hornitos on it, that’s a premium tequila experience.

A: There’s actually tequila in it, OK.

R: Yes. We want to make sure that was consistent, because our vision was bigger than just seltzers. When you want a premium tequila experience, you want to have a good time and enjoy yourself. We want to make sure that the brand connects to that, and that allows us to live the virtues of why the brand exists in the first place.

A: I have one more hot-button question for you. In the past six months to a year — though it’s been happening for much longer than this — there’s been a lot more attention paid to the amount of celebrity tequila that’s entering the category. While some people will say that’s because of George Clooney and his billion-dollar buyout, we actually published an article this month that also looks at that. Actually, that could have been well before that if you look at Sammy Hagar and Cabo Wabo with this idea of celebrities really supporting tequila. At the end of the day, there are definitely brands that think it’s good for the category and brands that are bad for the category or are muddying the category. There’s definitely a lot of backlash from trade. Do you guys have an opinion there? What do you think about this massive expansion of celebrity tequila?

R: I go back a little further. I think his name is John Paul Dejoria, who was the founder of Paul Mitchell who was integral in the development of Patrón and bringing super-premium tequila to West Coast culture, making it part of celebrity culture. There’s no way you can look down upon that spotlight that was created because people took something that people put their blood, sweat, and tears into and put a bigger spotlight on it. Now, I think I read a portion of the article, but there’s a lot of ways in which appropriation can happen and not appreciating what went into creating tequila as having a denomination of origin. On my side at least, I respect that people see the value in it. I think it actually pays back to our founders. Don Cenobio, Don Eladio, and Don Francisco were essentially the family — along with some others in the industry — that fought for the creation of the denomination of origin, the fact that only you can make 100 percent tequila in Mexico. If you go to the trade one step further, and you look at mezcal, there are critics of what they did. They weren’t perfect individuals by any stretch, but they effectively set up what we’re benefiting from today. We maybe haven’t done our job as the non-celebrity tequilas to actually tell the true story of how this industry got created and what work went into it. It’s why we spent a lot of time thinking about what it takes to get people actually down to Jalisco. To get them to Tequila, and to experience what it actually looks like to be there. We’re working on a partnership to develop a museum down there to tell the true history of what it went through, and it’s exciting to me. I welcome more people coming in, because I think we have a strong story to tell that is rooted deeply in what happened to create this phenomenon that we’re living in now. At the same time, I recognize that living in the past and only thinking about what things happened in the past is a fantasy world. I’m very happy to see people getting excited about tequila in whatever way that they want to. I’m just ecstatic to be in a place where I can contribute to such a phenomenal industry and work in a category that has so much going for it.

A: That makes sense to me. Rashidi, thank you so much for taking the time to chat with me today. It’s really cool to hear about your role at Beam Suntory, all the cool innovations you guys are doing around tequila, and to just talk about tequila more generally. Thanks so much.

R: I appreciate it. I can’t wait to get out there. Next time I’m around, I’ll look you up and we’ll find time to grab a couple of shots of tequila, maybe a Margarita.

A: Yeah man, that’ll be great.

Thanks so much for listening to the “VinePair Podcast.” If you love this show as much as we love making it, then please give us a rating or review on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever it is you get your podcasts. It really helps everyone else discover the show.

Now for the credits, VinePair is produced and recorded in New York City and in Seattle, Wash., by myself and Zach Geballe, who does all the editing and loves to get the credit. Also, I would love to give a special shout-out to my VinePair co-founder, Josh Malin, for helping make all this possible and also to Keith Beavers, VinePair’s tastings director who is additionally a producer on the show. I also want to, of course, thank every other member of the VinePair team who are instrumental in all of the ideas that go into making the show every week. Thanks so much for listening, and we’ll see you again.

Ed. note: This episode has been edited for length and clarity.

The article Next Round: Inside the Tequila Boom With Rashidi Hodari of Beam Suntory appeared first on VinePair.

Via https://vinepair.com/articles/rashidi-hodari-beam-suntory-tequila/

source https://vinology1.weebly.com/blog/next-round-inside-the-tequila-boom-with-rashidi-hodari-of-beam-suntory

Next Round: Inside the Tequila Boom With Rashidi Hodari of Beam Suntory

On this episode of “Next Round,” host Adam Teeter chats with Rashidi Hodari, managing director of tequila at Beam Suntory. Hodari begins by giving a brief overview of the tequila products offered at Beam Suntory, including Hornitos, El Tesoro, Tres Generaciones, and Sauza. Hodari and Teeter then discuss tequila’s recent dominance of the beverage alcohol market and why Beam Suntory is dipping its toe into the hard seltzer category.

Further, Hodari details Hornitos’ “A Fair Shot” and “A Shot Worth Taking” campaigns aimed at supporting immigration and providing financial support to entrepreneurs, respectively. Finally, Teeter and Hodari discuss the rise of celebrity tequila and its influence on the industry at large.

Tune in and visit https://www.beamsuntory.com/en to learn more.

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Adam Teeter: From Brooklyn, N.Y., I’m Adam Teeter, and this is a “VinePair Podcast” conversation. Today, we are talking with Rashidi Hodari, the managing director of tequila at Beam Suntory. Rashidi, what’s going on, man? Thanks for joining me.

Rashidi Hodari: Thanks for having me. I couldn’t be more excited to be with you. I’m a big fan of VinePair and happy to be speaking with you. Tequila is as hot as it’s ever been.

A: Oh dude, totally.

R: Hard seltzers are as hot as they’ve ever been. Ready-to-drink cocktails as well. We’ve got all of our irons in the fires, trying to win big in all of those categories.

A: I can’t wait to talk to you, from a director’s perspective, about how you look at the market. These specific podcasts get listened to a lot by people in the industry, so insights from you are going to be awesome to unearth here. Before we jump into that, what does the role of managing director of tequila mean?

R: It’s everything from setting the long-term vision for what we’re going to do with our products in the category, how our brands are going to be developed, what we’re going to make, and how we’re going to win across the globe in tequila.

A: And what are your brands?

R: We have a wide range. I like to say it’s a democratized set of opportunities for tequila. Everything from the ultra-premium El Tesoro, super-premium Tres Generaciones. In the premium category, we have Hornitos, and we also have Sauza tequila.

A: OK, cool. Has Beam Suntory always been in the tequila game? How long has tequila been part of the portfolio?

R: Beam Suntory is a relatively young company. It’s been around five years.

A: Five years, right.

R: That happened when Suntory effectively acquired Beam, but it became a stand-up company. As part of that, Beam had always had Sauza. It had it for a significant number of years before that. If you know the history of tequila, Sauza is one of the founding families. We actually produce our tequila at the original site where the first tequilas were ever produced in Mexico, to this day. Our brands have been around and have been part of creating the tequila industry from the very beginning.

A: Interesting. Hornitos and El Tesoro, those all came after the acquisition?

R: No. If we go into the history of the brands, Hornitos was effectively launched as a brand that was premium tequila for the everyman. It was originally part of the Sauza family, but it was spun off as its own brand from Sauza. Then, Tres Generaciones is essentially a super-premium tequila that effectively takes tequila to places where it hadn’t gone at the time. Those are all part of one family, we call it our brand house. We’ve had that as part of our portfolio, and as the market has shifted and consumers have come to learn more about tequila, we’ve placed our bets on the premium part of our portfolio. El Tesoro is from a different family, the Camarena family. They have a long history of making very high-quality tequila as well. As we have developed and the category has grown, we’ve put more support and emphasis around making sure people understand all that tequila has to offer, so we’re trying to win across all of those different segments.

A: Interesting. El Tesoro always performs really well in our tastings. It’s a really good tequila. That’s also been inside the Beam Suntory family for at least a few years, right?

R: Yeah, I think it’s been close to 10 years. We’ve had a long-term relationship with them.

A: Cool. Obviously, you opened by saying that tequila is on fire. We obviously know that. All of our data through VinePair Insights has shown for the last few years that tequila is just trending up, up, up, up, up. The only thing it ever seems to lose to is bourbon. It’s good for you guys because that’s the other spirit you guys have. But I’m curious, what do you think is the reason for tequila’s dominant explosion in the last few years?

R: I think it’s been a slow burn, so to speak. It’s not a category that came out of nowhere; it’s been around. To a certain extent, it initially wasn’t something that people looked at with fondness. You have a fondness in terms of expectations of what the quality was. You effectively had Patrón set the table more than 15 years ago of tequila being more than just cheap alcohol. They set the table of a reappraisal. That reappraisal has happened year after year with new people coming into the category. The recognition is that the products are very, very good, and they meet a lot of different demands. If you look at how consumers consume the product in Mexico, it’s very telling to show that it is very much democratized. There is not an occasion, there’s not a time for alcohol consumption that doesn’t offer a way in for tequila. From high-end to everyday sessionability, tequila can find a way in. That versatility, I think, is what creates a lot of opportunities, especially in the United States, where there’s a lot of competition, there’s a lot of demand, but as that reappraisal happens people can find a tequila that meets their needs.

A: Do you think that there is an association with tequila among consumers as being a purer spirit or a better-for-you spirit than other alternatives?

R: I think that, along the path over the last few years, as health and wellness trends have increased and people get much more knowledgeable about what they’re putting in their bodies, tequila offers a very credible set of product attributes that lends itself with high credibility to that. But at the end of the day, it is alcohol. It’s the balance of what you want from a spirit, but also having the benefits that come from all the associations with agave. I think it gets the benefits of both of those. Then, people have to make a judgment call of what’s going to tip them over the edge in one direction or another.

A: Obviously, we’re moving beyond the decades ago the idea that it was a lime-salt-shot type of liquid and into a really fine, high-end sipping liquid. Everyone is super aware that the Margarita is the No. 1 cocktail in America, but what else are you seeing on your end? Dealing with consumers and positioning El Tesoro, Hornitos, etc., in terms of cocktails for tequila? Are there certain cocktails you’re seeing trending more than others? And if so, which ones are those? Again, besides the Margarita.

R: Yeah, I could probably get into the top cocktails. The first thing that comes to mind is the Paloma. However, I don’t want to overlook the Margarita and the Margarita’s versatility, flexibility, nuance, and ability to be made with a plata, reposado, or anejo. It is very different in which liqueur you add to it, whether it’s flavored or whether it’s something that’s very refined and high-quality. You’ve seen increases of Cognacs being added to Margaritas. There’s no limit to the fascination of having your custom and ideal Margarita. It’s part of the reason why we’re launching a new lineup of Margaritas with Hornitos. Additionally, you can talk about cocktails all you want, and even though we’ve moved away from salt, lime, and a shot, shots are still the No. 1 consumption of tequila. At the end of the day, it’s still a big part of the category’s DNA. People associate taking shots, having fun, and letting loose with it. I think in the past, it was a bit of an albatross that made people a little bit hesitant. I think it also in these times with the pandemic and with the pressures that are going on, people want that freedom, they want a release. That’s why we have our “A Shot Worth Taking” campaign. That’s why we have the Shot Fund to help inspire people to live their best lives, effectively. It’s also why we have a thing called a “A Fair Shot” of Hornitos, where we support folks taking the steps to become American citizens, because we know that living your best life and getting after it day-to-day is a meaningful thing that tequila has brought to the experience that people have when they go out to bars and restaurants, but it should be something that is available to everybody.

A: Ah, that makes a lot of sense. That is super cool. Has “A Fair Shot” campaign been always stuff that Hornitos has done and pushed forward?

R: We’ve been doing this for a few years, and I think it comes out of the idea when I gave a little bit of overview of the history of the brand and how it was set up to be effectively a premium tequila for the everyman. It was actually based on the idea that we make really good tequila. If everybody has not had it, we should find a way to get it for them. It’s one of the reasons why we were one of the first brands to export our tequila to the United States. It’s one of the reasons why we believe the power of the brand is unlocking people’s ability, their human potential, their ability to go for it, go for what’s next in life, to take a chance on things. We make sure that when we do programs, whether it’s “A Fair Shot” with supporting immigration or the “A Shot Worth Taking” where we’re supporting entrepreneurs, we’re being a catalyst for them making contributions to the world. I think that’s one of the things that is also interesting about tequila. There’s an energy there that people gravitate towards, and we want to make sure that we were contributing in a meaningful way to that experience and not just making it something that they regret in the morning.

A: That makes complete sense. Let’s talk a little about other innovations happening with tequila. Obviously, the other big trend besides tequila that’s been booming in the United States is hard seltzer. I’ve always been surprised that we haven’t seen more hard seltzers that are spirits-based. Obviously, there is High Noon, which is killing it, but there haven’t been a lot more yet, but that is changing. I think one of the most interesting aspects is combining a spirit that’s on fire, tequila, with the seltzer world. You guys have just released that with the Hornitos hard seltzer. Can you talk about how that decision came to be and what you were looking at in order to determine that you wanted to create a hard seltzer? Then, how does that fit into the brand family?

R: Yeah, I’d love to. It’s funny because as a bit of an aside, we’re on a podcast, but we’ve been living life in a virtual world for the last year. I can think back to some meetings that we had about a year ago, discussing what our brand’s aspirations were and what we needed to do. It really came down to trying to not just ride the wave of the success in the tequila category or seeing the wave that was also moving in hard seltzers, but then how do we need to act? How do we need to behave and what shots do we need to take as a company and as a brand to live our values in a way that helps us make our decisions and make choices about what we did? We said most spirit brands and most premium brands will shy away from going outside of their lane. They want to be really good at what they do. I think that’s totally respectable, but as a brand, Hornitos stands for taking shots. This is the one where people love tequila. People love seltzers. People love putting tequila in their seltzers. If you want to get after it and you want to enable and inspire people, take a shot on yourself. I think that ethos of taking a shot on ourselves and believing that we can stand next to the biggest players in hard seltzer — whether it’s spirit-based or not — with tequila and soda, tequila and seltzer, combined with that adjacent category, is a winning proposition. We just have to do it in the boldest and ambitious ways possible. That required getting buy-in from the organization and getting everybody lined up. Also, make sure that it is very clear that we’re not dipping our toe into this. If you look at the package, you see Hornitos is the biggest thing there because we want people to be proud. We want to be proud that this is a Hornitos seltzer. At the end of the day, we want to drive that passion in everything that we do. We want it to come across, and we want people to be proud to pick it up, to hold it, to drink it, and to pass it on to the next person.

A: When you were developing the culture, how much were you thinking about calorie count? How much were you thinking about calorie counts especially with respect to flavor? I know that’s something that I’ve talked to other people about as well who have developed seltzer brands. No one is really sure if seltzer exploded because of calories or because of flavor. You have seen new brands that are pushing more flavor, which often comes with higher calories, and they’re wondering if they’re going to be successful. What conversations did you have around that?

R: We said it’s got to taste good. It’s got to be awesome, and people have to want to talk about it. If you just go to the table stakes of what’s going on in the category, hitting a certain level of ABV, hitting a certain calorie count, and being quiet about your flavor, you’re going to get lost in the masses. We said, “What is the boldest way we can go out and make sure people love the way that it tastes?” Ultimately, we found that that difference was potentially 10 to 15 calories. We’re not expecting people to drink 15 of these, probably just a couple of them. That’s fine. We want people to be proud to drink these for that couple of cocktails we’re going to have in the evening. We thought about it, but we made deliberate choices about going with something that’s going to taste good.

A: I’m pretty sure I know the answer to this question, but I’m asking anyway. You have a bunch of brands that obviously want to be able to be sold everywhere, grocery, etc. So they took the brand name, but they went with a malt base. Was that ever a consideration for you? Are you guys OK that it might be a little bit harder for the consumer to get Hornitos as easily as maybe a White Claw or things like that?

R: I think it’s a consideration. I think it’s just being mindful in knowing the depth of your listener and serving the audience and the appreciation for the three-tier system. That is something that you can’t really operate in without fully appreciating the complexities of the three-tier system. We’re mindful that there is a ceiling on where we can get. Now, there’s an element of the price structure that also comes through, so I think we took that into account. But we also recognized that we want people to appreciate it, and I think it also gives us a little bit of license. As I said, we have a partnership with On the Rocks, a brand that we acquired last year where we have a Hornitos Margarita. We’re launching a Hornitos Margarita that is spirits-based. We want to basically make sure that when you have tequila and a desire for a premium tequila experience, you know that when you’re picking up something that has Hornitos on it, that’s a premium tequila experience.

A: There’s actually tequila in it, OK.

R: Yes. We want to make sure that was consistent, because our vision was bigger than just seltzers. When you want a premium tequila experience, you want to have a good time and enjoy yourself. We want to make sure that the brand connects to that, and that allows us to live the virtues of why the brand exists in the first place.

A: I have one more hot-button question for you. In the past six months to a year — though it’s been happening for much longer than this — there’s been a lot more attention paid to the amount of celebrity tequila that’s entering the category. While some people will say that’s because of George Clooney and his billion-dollar buyout, we actually published an article this month that also looks at that. Actually, that could have been well before that if you look at Sammy Hagar and Cabo Wabo with this idea of celebrities really supporting tequila. At the end of the day, there are definitely brands that think it’s good for the category and brands that are bad for the category or are muddying the category. There’s definitely a lot of backlash from trade. Do you guys have an opinion there? What do you think about this massive expansion of celebrity tequila?

R: I go back a little further. I think his name is John Paul Dejoria, who was the founder of Paul Mitchell who was integral in the development of Patrón and bringing super-premium tequila to West Coast culture, making it part of celebrity culture. There’s no way you can look down upon that spotlight that was created because people took something that people put their blood, sweat, and tears into and put a bigger spotlight on it. Now, I think I read a portion of the article, but there’s a lot of ways in which appropriation can happen and not appreciating what went into creating tequila as having a denomination of origin. On my side at least, I respect that people see the value in it. I think it actually pays back to our founders. Don Cenobio, Don Eladio, and Don Francisco were essentially the family — along with some others in the industry — that fought for the creation of the denomination of origin, the fact that only you can make 100 percent tequila in Mexico. If you go to the trade one step further, and you look at mezcal, there are critics of what they did. They weren’t perfect individuals by any stretch, but they effectively set up what we’re benefiting from today. We maybe haven’t done our job as the non-celebrity tequilas to actually tell the true story of how this industry got created and what work went into it. It’s why we spent a lot of time thinking about what it takes to get people actually down to Jalisco. To get them to Tequila, and to experience what it actually looks like to be there. We’re working on a partnership to develop a museum down there to tell the true history of what it went through, and it’s exciting to me. I welcome more people coming in, because I think we have a strong story to tell that is rooted deeply in what happened to create this phenomenon that we’re living in now. At the same time, I recognize that living in the past and only thinking about what things happened in the past is a fantasy world. I’m very happy to see people getting excited about tequila in whatever way that they want to. I’m just ecstatic to be in a place where I can contribute to such a phenomenal industry and work in a category that has so much going for it.

A: That makes sense to me. Rashidi, thank you so much for taking the time to chat with me today. It’s really cool to hear about your role at Beam Suntory, all the cool innovations you guys are doing around tequila, and to just talk about tequila more generally. Thanks so much.

R: I appreciate it. I can’t wait to get out there. Next time I’m around, I’ll look you up and we’ll find time to grab a couple of shots of tequila, maybe a Margarita.

A: Yeah man, that’ll be great.

Thanks so much for listening to the “VinePair Podcast.” If you love this show as much as we love making it, then please give us a rating or review on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever it is you get your podcasts. It really helps everyone else discover the show.

Now for the credits, VinePair is produced and recorded in New York City and in Seattle, Wash., by myself and Zach Geballe, who does all the editing and loves to get the credit. Also, I would love to give a special shout-out to my VinePair co-founder, Josh Malin, for helping make all this possible and also to Keith Beavers, VinePair’s tastings director who is additionally a producer on the show. I also want to, of course, thank every other member of the VinePair team who are instrumental in all of the ideas that go into making the show every week. Thanks so much for listening, and we’ll see you again.

Ed. note: This episode has been edited for length and clarity.

The article Next Round: Inside the Tequila Boom With Rashidi Hodari of Beam Suntory appeared first on VinePair.

source https://vinepair.com/articles/rashidi-hodari-beam-suntory-tequila/