#Anti Aerys II | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

atopvisenyashill · 17 days

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If Jaehaerys was all about minimizing the power of Targaryen daughters but marrying them off to less-than-ideal suitors (love that idea), how do you think that applies to the match of Rhaenys and Corlys? Does it, even? Or does it need to, given expected Rhaenys's station at the time? He says she couldn't have picked a better man.

And, also, do you think this can be applied to Daemon's match with Rhea?

LETS DIG INNNN okay this got so longgggg but i was trying to be fair while also discussing like, so much sex crime-

So like the post said re: Alyssa & Baelon’s marriage, I think there's some interference from Alysanne here. Especially early on in their marriage, before she's made it clear that she can in fact live without his ass, I think we have several cases where he's ~indulging~ Alysanne's more romantic ideas about what ruling should look like and what being a targaryen should be about. Giving her wins that ultimately don’t cost him much (before she starts asking for things he doesn’t approve of).

I think by the time Rhaenys marries Corlys, Jaehaerys has already written her off as a potential heir, but if he denies her marriage to Corlys, that risks not only pissing off Corlys - who imo already has A Whole Thing about being Just As Valyrian As The Targaryens, so he will take offense - but also tips Alysanne off to the fact that he has no intention of letting the crown pass to Rhaenys or her sons. He knows this is a sore spot for her because she insisted that little Daenerys be considered crown princess and heir over Aemon, and Jaehaerys already brushed her off about that. So if he tries to marry Rhaenys off to like, a Tully who already has three heirs or some random Darry, Alysanne is going to argue that Rhaenys deserves a much loftier match given her status, and get really paranoid about why Rhaenys is getting a shitty match. I think he's trying to put off naming Baelon as his/Aemon’s heir for as long as possible because he knows it's going to be a fight, especially given that Alysanne is usually the one in charge of marriages, and this has precedent (that marriages are the Queen's domain - Visenya and Rhaenys made marriage matches as well).

But also. I think (and I can't believe I'm gonna do my man Ned dirty like this) that like Ned (bleh), Jaehaerys learns the "wrong lesson" from his sister. Rhaena married extremely beneath her and that caused major problems for her, so Jaehaerys is making sure that Rhaenys doesn't marry far beneath her as well. Because see, Rhaena spends much of her life miserable, without a direction in life, without even a castle to her name that she can hide out in. Everything that is hers is actually Jaehaerys' and it eats away at her until the day she dies. Beyond that, keeping Rhaena on as a guest is expensive because people want to see her, because she comes with her own household, and because she has a whole ass dragon that needs to be fed. So even if she wanted to live off the goodwill of others, that goodwill runs out quick due to logistics. She only gets Harrenhal because Maegor Towers is sickly and the last of his line, and even then, it's not really hers - it belongs to the crown.

I think Jaehaerys looked at how unhappy she was and what a huge pain in the ass it was, and figures he needs to give Rhaenys a consolation prize in a way he doesn’t need to give to the younger daughters, bc they never had a chance to inherit. Rhaenys has assumed the crown will pass if not to her then to her son, as has Alysanne, and I think its likely Aemon and Jocelyn also assumed that the crown would pass to Rhaenys' eventual son. Jaehaerys can’t just deny her all the trappings of being crown princess/mother to a king and expect her to take it lying down. And to be clear, I do think there’s some emotional aspect to this - I think he did feel guilty over stealing Rhaena’s crown and throne even if he felt he was doing it ~for the good of the realm bc Aegon had died. When Rhaena makes her “you are rhaenys i am visenya i have always known this” comment, she nails the dynamic, but I think Rhaena being the ~rejected bride~ does hurt Jaehaerys - she deserved, in his eyes, to grow old with their brother and have the power of a queen consort. BUT. At the same time, he’s a raging violent misogynist who believes Alysanne is the only exception to her gender, that it is simply right and natural that a woman only derives power from her husband. It’s why Baelon gets to claim Balerion when he’s young, but Alyssa is barred until her wedding. A dragon is a responsibility, a realm is a burden, and in his eyes Alyssa Velaryon, Rhaena, and Visenya all failed to live up to the challenge. So yes, he wants something good for Rhaenys - he wants her to have a happier life than Rhaena did, and he’s willing to gamble just like he did with the Baelon/Alyssa marriage, and indulge Rhaenys and Alysanne in giving her a dragon and a husband who could back her claim because she needs something to keep her calm when he inevitably usurps her, in contrast to the way Rhaena had absolutely nothing to distract her from her misery. And his gamble pays off is the thing - he neutralizes her dragon and her husband bc Corlys is off fighting still when the announcement is made, and Rhaenys is heavily pregnant and probably not really riding Meleys. He figured - bc of his love for Alyssa, Alysanne, and Rhaenys, however goddamn deranged and ultimately meaningless that love is - that he could move the pieces enough to get the outcome he thought was best and he was right!

For Daemon's part, I do think this is part of why Alysanne ships him off to the Vale yes. Notable to me that every marriage match does have a seat of their own, even if it's not an important one, unlike second son Androw Farman - Daella would have gotten the Eyrie, Viserra would have gotten White Harbor, and while none of Saera's matches were lofty they were all heirs with nice enough seats. But Daemon would run into a similar problem where it would be too expensive to keep him around if he marries some random noble lady living with her dad, but if he marries too high up that’s just as bad, so giving him an heiress and then kicking him the fuck out is a good way to deal with him.

BUT. I actually do have a conspiracy theory here that something happened at KL that caused a huge stir within the family and Alysanne dealt with it by shipping Daemon off. What happened? Well...obviously I think Viserys and Daemon got caught fucking lmao, I call myself a Visaemon truther for a reason. I do also think there's a chance that Alysanne suspected Daemon was fucking around with Gael as well - they're only a year apart, they grew up in King’s Landing together, Gael & Alysanne have been back at court a few years, Targaryens love to do that stuff, etc. I’m not saying he IS the father, the timeline is close enough that they could have fucked around but not close enough to have gotten her pregnant - he marries Rhea in 97 and Gael disappears from court in 99. But my other conspiracy about Jaehaerys being the father does kinda fit this too - that Alysanne noticed something was up but suspected the wrong man. I don't think Alysanne would ever want to even entertain the thought that Jaehaerys was raping one of her daughters, even if she realized what he had done to Alysanne herself was rape. Much easier to blame it on/suspect eternal Problem Child Daemon, especially if he's also being groomed by fucking Viserys; he's already an oversexed lecher who seduced gentle, married Viserys away from sweet Aemma, what else isn't he capable of? (and the double tap there of like, hypersexualization of bisexuality + Alysanne’s complete refusal to deal with how unhappy she is with Jaehaerys equals, to me, her constantly punishing her children and grandchildren because she can’t punish Jaehaerys, and proving this point to herself that she couldn’t have been manipulated into marrying him because look, her daughters are marrying the same way as well. And if she suspects even subconsciously that Jaehaerys is raping Gael? And punishes Daemon for ~seducing~ her poor sweet innocent Gael and stealing away Viserys from his sweet innocent wife Aemma? yeah that tracks with how she treats Saera and Viserra).

um tldr i think jaehaerys simply gambled that he could still control the situation when it came to defanging rhaenys, but also knew he couldn’t just give her nothing, if not for sentiment sake, then at least for logistics sake and to avoid a small rebellion, so when rhaenys & alysanne float the match, he can’t say no to it, so he just controls it. and i do think alysanne sent daemon off to the vale in part to defang him as well, yes, in addition to my not insane i’m right conspiracies about exactly what was cookin in king’s landing circa 97-99 ac (it was a lot of sex crimes, that’s what was cookin).

#anti jaehaerys i targaryen #i gotta stop myself here before i go down a rabbit hole akskdkdjjd #anyways once again i fucking hate jaehaerys i think he is the worst targ king and i’m including maegor and aerys ii i don’t give a fuck #just bc he wasn’t as flashy abiut abusing his family & had oodles of dumb luck doesn’t make him a good king #he sucks and he’s not even fun on top of it. once again at least aegon iv aerys ii and maegor have pizzaz.#ummmm #anti alysanne targaryen #idk jic. do i tag gael. do i tag rhaenys.#asks #backjustforberena

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gojuo · 9 months

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Tell us now your top 5 most hated characters on ASOAIF and F&B please!

My no.1 most hated ASOIAF character is Tywin Lannister. I hate this man. I hate him very much. I wish he would go away and die somewhere where he will inconvenience no one but the vultures. I loathe his manner. I loathe his style. I loathe the fact that he dares draw breath in a world where my loved ones do not or rather cannot because he murdered them. I loathe that he was rewarded for behavior which, in-universe, he should have been quartered for. I want him dead. I want to kill him and destroy him. I want him died. #SCENE #ANGER #FUCK #DIE #HATERED

There is not a single ounce — not even a miniscule amount — of sympathy I have for this scumbag. Not a single thing likeable about him. Not a single redeeming quality he has to his name. From the first moment he showed up on page until the very last mention of him, he was nothing short of disgusting. He is diabolical, satanic, monstrous, loathsome, ghoulish, sadistic, cruel, insert every single synonym of the term demonic here, etc. etc. I hate him. I hate him I hate him I hate him I hate him.

The whole “Yeah he’s evil uwu but Charles Dance is so granddaddy I can fix him <3" sales pitch this low IQ fandom has been pushing since the dawn of that accursed adaptation on top of it all only makes the intense disgust I hold for him so much fucking worse. Tywin Lannister has no conscience, no charisma, no morals, and he has no honor — all of that in an un-sexy way, one of the greatest crimes a villain with no traumatic backstory could objectively ever commit. Never mind the beyond immoral execution of the Red Wedding (“Machiavellian” my ass. Any stupid fool who says this crap needs to go back to elementary school in order to relearn how to read and how to interpret literature and themes in literature right the fuck now), never mind the severe mental torture he’s put his own flesh and blood through to the point where two of them are in a destructive incestuous relationship with each other and the other pushed to the point of patricide, this monster had his son's fourteen-year-old little child-wife gangraped by his guards, had each of them give her a silver coin after one was done with her, then had thirteen-year-old Tyrion rape her last and, contrary to the others, give her a gold coin because “Lannisters are worth more”. All because she was a common-born little girl who dared to marry the disabled son he hated so much. Am I supposed to think this piece of shit falls under the sexy evil category of villains? What sad backstory does this trash have to his name that would woobify him enough to “if villain bad why sexy” him? His father had a few mistresses after his mother died and gave them gifts and cared for them? Was that the tragic past of his that elevated him enough for people to wash their conscience clean so to cross moral boundaries all to lust after this so-called “sexy villain”? Tywin Lannister had his father’s mistress, who was nothing but a poor common-born daughter of a candle-maker, stripped naked and paraded through the streets of Lannisport for two whole goddamn weeks, and forced her to tell every man she came across that she was a thief and a whore, quite alike to what he did to Tysha as well. This man hates women. I cannot stress this enough, like Tywin Lannister hates women. And not just women, but especially commoner women. His modus operandi is inflicting sadistic sexual violence on any and all women he doesn’t like (which is like, all of them). As a true “if villain bad then why sexy” connoisseur and quite frankly, the president of the club, this man is not, never was and never will be a part of that esteemed category of villains.

And you know something that’s a veeery personal ick of mine — and this is really the icing on the cake for me — is shit-for-brains dickriders of this ghoul having the gall to pretend like he did not explicitly order the murder of Elia and her babies, that he apparently just “let” Clegane and Lorch loose on them. These low IQ fucks know what that demon did to his father’s poor mistress and what he did to little Tysha, and then somehow they still think this sadist with a severely fragile ego did not tell Clegane and Lorch to do what they did to her with his own mouth? Any waste-of-space who parrots this BNF-drivel (all said in order to minimize what happened to Elia, Rhaenys and the baby in place for Aegon) is not only going on my blocklist like immediately, they also need to die. Respectfully.

Now, I mostly spoke on his character from a moral standpoint, but I want to make clear that this loser’s shortcomings aren’t only morality-based. All the shit-for-brains stans this demon has know he has no morals so they always deflect to the “b-b-but he’s a military genius, that’s why I like him, I’m so edgy!!!” excuse and I want to emphasize how fucking stupid you have to be to believe Tywin is anything but brainless. AFFC is literally right there. GRRM’s explicitly spells out to the reader through Jaime’s POV how fucking stupid Tywin was in everything that he did. How the only show of military genius this demon had was through being nothing but a bully. All his work unraveled the second he died. He built nothing, and he will go down in history as nothing. That’s why his one and only legacy will always be that he got murdered on the shitter by his own son, like the fucking loser that he is.

I hate this fucking character with every fiber of my being.

On number 2 stands Aerys II Targeryen. Do I even need to explain this? What I said about Tywin applies to this racist, rapist, fascist piece of shit as well. I’m not going to waste my time and money psychoanalyzing this bottom-of-the-barrel trash. Aerys is the pinnacular culmination of three hundred years of Targaryen delusion, self-worship, egotism and five thousand years of Valyrian hubris, god-complex, and megalomania. Him and his daughter both, but I’ll get to her in a minute. This man’s lucky he’s only got 2 stans — and those two are only stanning just to be contrarians — unlike Tywin, who’s got an actual dedicated fanbase. Ugh. Two peas in a pod. One edge he has over Tywin is that at the very least Aerys has some sort of tragic backstory that’s actually valid. Too bad for him idgaf. Pour one out for Rhaella :(

My third most hated is ... Daenerys. Man… How do I even open this can of worms… I’ve a whole tag dedicated to hating her, soooo awkwardly waves hand in that direction. Everything about Daenerys is just so … racist. Racist on an in-universe level, racist on a meta level and racist on a fandom level, so I was never going to like Daenerys no matter what. The fact that she has the most insane and delusional and downright disgusting fanbase ever in all of media history really doesn’t help her case. If they hadn’t been this rabid and racist, then I don’t think I would have hated her this much. Because then I could’ve just had her character be as she is: the Paul Astreides of the series. A false Messiah, basically. The meta-level racism (GRRM making every single antagonist in her plotline nothing but walking, talking Reel Bad Arabs tropes; the use of POV trap which leads to none of the brown and black supporting characters in her story having a voice; GRRM’s own racism as in exotic-erotic tropes for all of the Essosi people, really badly researched POC cultures he based the Essosi off of, using brown and black people as nothing but props for the main white girl) and Daenerys’ in-universe racism (conquering and colonizing lands and peoples; white saviorism; imperialism; her hypocritical use of slavery) would still be there, of course, and I still would not have been able to stomach it meaning I still would not have rooted for her in any way, but then at the very least I would not have been subjected to a long decade of fandom racism being justified through the excuse of her freeing slaves from evil Reel Bad Arabs (spoiler alert: she is not freeing anybody).

Ugh, I don’t wanna talk about her. Everything about her from her character to the plot and storyline and her place in the narrative is downright insulting to me as a WOC, and quite frankly, any WOC that lays down their lives to defend this girl baffles me. Like, stop it. Please have some self-respect.

Then comes Jaehaerys the Old King. Father and inventor of misogyny. It’s crazy.

No. 5 is Rhaenys I and Daeron I the Young Dragon. EVERY TONGUE THAT RISES AGAINST THE DORNISH SHALL FALL!!!

#im sorry it took me so long to answer i have no excuse :(#asoiaf #tywin #aerys ii #daenerys #anti daenerys #jaehaerys i #rhaenys i #daeron the young dragon #anonymous #answered

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themockingpoint · 1 year

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“Well Brandon was an idiot and started threatening to kill the prince! What was Aerys supposed to do?”

Can anyone here actually convince me that if Brandon showed up acting like Ned when demanding his sister back that the same thing wouldn’t have happened? Does anyone here think that Aerys wouldn’t have still executed Brandon horribly anyway?

#aerys ii targaryen #brandon stark #anti house targaryen #anti Aerys Targaryen #this also always conveniently ignores Rickard and his companions

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agentrouka-blog · 1 year

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Interesting that wildfire is called cousin of dragonflames yet no one noticed it.

(post referenced)

Well, it's buried in a supplementary worldbuilding book, so it's hardly required reading for the main series, but the context is pretty illustrative.

In the wake of Duskendale, the king also began to display signs of an ever-increasing obsession with dragonfire, similar to that which had haunted several of his forebears. Lord Darklyn would never have dared defy him if he had been a dragonrider, Aerys reasoned. His attempts to bring forth dragons from eggs found in the depths of Dragonstone (some so old that they had turned to stone) yielded naught, however.

Frustrated, Aerys turned to the Wisdoms of the ancient Guild of Alchemists, who knew the secret of producing the volatile jade green substance known as wildfire, said to be a close cousin to dragonflame. The pyromancers became a regular fixture at his court as the king's fascination with fire grew. By 280 AC, Aerys II had taken to burning traitors, murderers, and plotters, rather than hanging or beheading them. The king seemed to take great pleasure in these fiery executions, which were presided over by Wisdom Rossart, the grand master of the Guild of Alchemists...so much so that he granted Rossart the title of Lord and gave him a seat upon the small council.

His Grace's growing madness had become unmistakable by that time. From Dorne to the Wall, men had begun to refer to Aerys II as the Mad King. (The World of Ice and Fire - The Targaryen Kings: Aerys II)

He tried to hatch dragons from stone eggs and only turned to wildfire because that didn't work out? Because he really had wanted a dragon?

What's that, Aegon "Egg" V Targaryen tried the same thing in order to be able to enforce his political reforms?

...the blood of the dragon gathered in one... ...seven eggs, to honor the seven gods, though the king's own septon had warned... ...pyromancers... ...wild fire... ...flames grew out of control...towering...burned so hot that... ...died, but for the valor of the Lord Comman... (The World of Ice and Fire - The Targaryen Kings: Aegon V)

I'm sure it means absolutely nothing.

Dragons are good. Dragons born from murdering slaves are used to fight slavery, after all. Beside them eating little children, of course. Point is, they are good. People who hatch them from stone by murdering slaves are also good and not at all prone to dangerous fire incidents.

Wildfire is the real problem. Cersei or JonCon are totally going to burn KL.

Not the daughter who managed to do what daddy couldn't.

#anti daenerys targaryen #anti dragon #wildfire #asoiaf history #aerys ii targaryen #father and daughter #long post

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yourlocalnetizen · 2 years

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Stop comparing Prince Duncan to Rhaegar!

Their situations are not alike at all!

Duncan's mother & father married for love.

Rhaegar's didn't.

Rhaegar was married with kids.

Duncan was not.

Duncan had two adult/nearly adult brothers in line after him.

Rhaegar's only brother was a child and his son was an infant.

It's true Duncan T has some flaws and was absolutely selfish by choosing love but in his position it really didn't look like anything could go wrong, and nothing would have gone wrong if his nephew Aerys wasn't a madman.

Rhaegar had a wife from a powerful family and the woman he choose to pursue was from a powerful family and she was engaged to a man from a powerful family. Rhaegar knew he was going to piss of some powerful people.

#duncan targaryen #anti rhaegar targaryen #jenny of oldstones #elia martell #lyanna stark #robert baratheon #aegon v targaryen #jaehaerys ii targaryen #daeron targaryen son of aegon v #aerys targaryen #asoiaf #a song of ice and fire

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sheisbeautyweareworldass · 7 months

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jae ii is almost as bad as jae i just for that stupid “every time a targaryen is born” line alone

#the closest targaryen had of a mad man by the time he said that was aerion and aerion isn’t even that important to be known in westeros #the only targ who went down in history as mad was aerys and that was after jae ii was dead mind you #now i have to deal with dang antis bringing up that line every day to support their mad queen theories 🧍🏽‍♀️#*dany

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aegor-bamfsteel · 1 year

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ppl give jaehaerys shit for the way he treats his daughters but imo he's overrated in general. He built roads which is good but that was it for his legacy.

Well, when the legacy of the other kings consists of:

Conquering most of a continent; building a Smelly City; causing mass destruction resulting in loss of a dragon because you couldn’t stand having other rulers in Westeros (Aegon I)

Being so bad at ruling that 4 rebellions broke out against you in the span of a season (Aenys)

Building an Evil Castle, then killing everybody involved in its construction; basically killing everybody who didn’t bend over backwards to appease you; getting shanked on your own throne (Maegor)

Inheriting the most prosperous realm ever, then leaving it on the brink of the bloodiest civil war due to crap family planning (Viserys I)

Being such a tyrannical ruler the people of the Smelly City chased you out in 6 months (Rhaenyra)

Being such a tyrannical ruler you allegedly got poisoned by your own men in 6 months (Aegon II)

Idk…being traumatized because you saw your mother eaten by a dragon, and also the dragons died (Aegon III)

Starting a bloody conquest war that ended in 60000 of your own men dead, that didn’t even stick (Daeron I)

Building a Women’s Prison in the Evil Castle so you can lock your sisters up for no good reason; building a Great Sept in the Smelly City named after yourself and moving your Rubber Stamp Popes (including an 8 year old and an illiterate stonemason) there (Baelor)

Idk…getting poisoned after a year? (Viserys II)

Raping women; trying to start unprovoked wars; unjust executions and land theft (Aegon IV)

Building a pleasure palace in a notorious war zone for your family; probably completing the Great Sept; being so bad at negotiating and family planning half the realm turned against you; harshly punishing even the children of those who turned against you (Daeron II)

Being so bad at ruling you’d rather read about prophecies, leaving a tyrant to preside over the worst humanitarian crises (drought and Great Spring Sickness) and yet more rebellions, thus creating an authoritarian police state (Aerys I)

Idk…keeping said tyrant as Hand despite him proving to be an incompetent ruler; also getting killed by a falling rock (Maekar)

Letting your kids marry “for love” causing rebellions; being unable to get your reforms for the peasants passed peacefully; resorting to trying to bring back dragons and getting yourself and half your family blown up at Pleasure Palace (Aegon V)

Idk…ordering the invasion of a sellsword kingdom on another continent due to generational paranoia; ruling for three years; demanding your kids wed because of a prophecy (Jaehaerys II)

Unjustly executing noblemen by burning them alive; calling for the executions of their families just for their blood relation, causing most of the realm to turn against you; planning to blow up the Smelly City before your teenage body guard shanked you, thus finally bringing your failure dynasty’s rulership to an end (Aerys II)

…measured against the other Targ kings, Jaehaerys’ legacy of building a six-kingdoms long road looks pretty good, considering most of the Targs’ own building projects were for themselves (Summerhall, Maegor’s Holdfast, the f—king Maidenvault) or localized in the Smelly City (Great Sept). Then Septon Barth and Alysanne had some good ideas about cleaning up the city water supply, helping fund the Night’s Watch, some laws allegedly protecting women, and then Florence Fossoway kept the kingdoms financially profitable, which I guess adds to J1’s prestige. Tbh I consider J1’s 2 wars against Dorne to also be a mark against him, and I’m annoyed that F&B added the detail that the Dornish allegedly mourned the guy who along with his sons burned hundreds of them alive on dragon back. Same with the Doctrine of Exceptionalism, and basically turning the High Septon into a rubber stamp when before the Faith had been a reliable anti-Targ faction that demonstrated some care for the smallfolk. In addition to mistreating his daughters, in a way that goes beyond politics and escalates into spite (though he’s hardly alone in that, with how Alysanne treated Viserra).

Really, I don’t see why GRRM can call Robert Baratheon “a terrible king”, when compared to the Targs he’s above average, and actually better than some of their best kings in some regards (when he pardoned those who rebelled against him with few exceptions).

#ask #opinion #anti targaryen #anti jaehaerys #asoiaf

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lives4lovesworld · 1 year

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This meta will highlight GRRM own bias and double standards when it comes to his (= the narrative's) judgement of Aerys II Targaryen, as well as the insincerity of the fandom's obsession and exaggeration of Aerys II's "madness" and cruelty.

GRRM singles Aerys out in his cruelty and has it directly linked to his unstable mental state, which is quite ironic(?) if one i) actually consideres how normalized violence, collective punishment and arbitrariness in ASoIaF world is. Yet few and far between are actually mad, and even fewer dubbed as such, and ii) puts his in direct comparison to other characters, which are never condemned as much as Aerys (if at all) by the narrative. And the fandom naturally doubles down on GRRM hypocrisy (given how anti!Targaryen it is) and insists to exaggerate Aerys's madness in every sense to one up against Daenerys Stormborn.

Aerys is condemn for his preferred method of execution. The fandom even goes so far to write numerous metas arguing death-through-fire somehow is crueler, worser and morally more appaling than any other method, especially when it's a Targaryen monarch to use it. This absurdity as already been refuted a couple of times in the context of defending show!Daenerys burning large parts of her enemies in the field, instead of the having her men exclusively killing them in battle. But as always it falls on deaf ears, since this hypocritical fandom holds Targaryen (and only Targaryens) to modern standards, to the point where they are condemn for executing their enemies. PERIOD.

And Aerys is the biggest victim of this absurdity. Both within the fandom (since nobody cares for him, no one defends him in pointing out the double standards) and narrative (since Daenerys has, unlike what the fandom conjuncts out of thin air, never burned anyone but Mirri Maz Duur and is a rescuer above all so GRRM obviously does and can not condemn her for deeds she didn't commit).

For example, he and Stannis Baratheon have both burnt their hands for "bad counsel during the war". Qarlton Chelsted was burned for his objection against Aerys's plan to torch King's Landing and Alester Florent for the letter that offered Stannis's full surrender (x) to House Lannister, after his lethal demise at the Blackwater (x). Stannis's hand was even his kin (through marriage) and in killing him, he committed one of the gravest crimes in their world. Yet Stannis is neither condemn as "mad" for the execution nor for the kinslaying nor the style of said execution.

The only thing GRRM seems to condemn Stannis for are his reasons behind all of his "sacrifices"; which is to misuse the power of death for his own personal gain. Be it to murder Renly to avoid defeat, take a rival out and gain his army, for favorable winds for his expedition, put a stop to the blizzard or gain dragons/be Azor Ahai. Although all of Stannis's misfortunes in his failing campaign for the Iron Throne (his demise at the Blackwater, his inability to gain anyone's genuine support, House Karstark's betrayal and the blizzard) could be interpreted as narrative punishment, Stannis's reputation (as a righteous, capable man) within the narrative never suffers.

The fandom as well has no qualms how Stannis let his uncle be burned alive in order. Especially, those that refuse to accept that Stannis is in fact NOT Azor Ahai, do not even condemn for that. It's excused as "means to an end" or "products of his time". Another prime example of the fandom's blatant hypocrisy and double standards one might add; While members of House Targaryen are condemn for the use of magic, especially blood sacrifices, and Daenerys is even accuse of burning people alive and kinslaying without this being the case, Stannis is allowed to utilize (blood and dark) magic, (consider) murder and burn people as he pleases, (consider) kinslaying (nephew, brother uncle-in-law and in the future his own daughter) and still be proclaimed the Right Man to Rule™ and altruistic TKwC.

Somehow in the fandom's nonsensical moral belief system Aerys depriving sadistic pleasure in watching men burn makes it apparently morally more appaling than Stannis's religious frantic, megalomaniac reasoning ("for the greater good") behind his executions (and given the fact that he is in fact NOT Azor Ahai/The Chosen One one could argue all these sacrifice are completely in vain.)

Aerys's cruelty is not unique for the ASoIaF world. And more importantly, I would dare to say that most of his "atrocities" such as i) the annihilation of House Darklyns and Hollard ii) the maiming of Ilyan Payne iii) his execution of Brandon Stark, Rickard Stark and their escort and his call for Eddard Stark and Robert Baratheon's heads and iv) him prohibiting Elia Martell and her children to leave King's Landing, would not be seen as one of a madman, if Aerys's mental decline would have NOT been as apparent.

i) Lord Deny seized his King, killed his escort and subjected Aerys to torture for about half a year and threatened to have him killed in hopes to get the desired charter for Duskendale granted, that had been denied.

This was unprovoked high treason and broke all the laws such as the sacred guest right, the king's peace and all vows to obey and defend the king. How exactly should a king have dealt with such an uprising and insult to his person and political power? Which ruler would have suffered such grand affront, without exerting harsh punishment? Which ruler could have even allowed himself to be merciful, if it meant he will be seen as a weak king, signaling to the rest of the realm that one can take the king captive and hold hostage and get away with it?

To put in perspective; Robert Baratheon brutally smashed Balon Greyjoy's rebellion, burnt their homes, broke their castles, raped and murder the common folk and lastly gave Balon's last son as hostage to Eddard Stark to secure Balon's submission (x) after his elder brothers were slain. House Reyne and House Tarbeck were both in debt to House Lannister. Soley to restore House Lannister's prestige, Tywin demanded immediate repayment from them, (hostages if it was not possible). Both houses refused. Despite Tytos Lannister settling the matter, Tywin deliberately provoked both houses by ordering their respective lords to answer to Casterly Rock for their crimes. When refused, Tywin (without the leave of his lordly father!) raised an army and started his war of annihilation. The ruins of these houses' castles were left as reminders of the fate that awaits those who scorn the power of Casterly Rock, and "The Rains of Castamere" was written as a tribute to the event. Stannis Baratheon considered torching and raiding Claw Isle as punishment for its Lord bending the knee in captivity and House Stark extinguished House Greystark when it rose in rebellion together with House Bolton.

None of these extreme violent acts are deemed as "[their] terrible revenge" nor are these men seen as mad, cruel or unfit. And mind you, no one of these men experienced captivity and torture on their own person.

When one such reported that the captain of the Hand's personal guard, a knight named Ser Ilyn Payne, had been heard boasting it was Lord Tywin who truly ruled the Seven Kingdoms, His Grace sent the Kingsguard to arrest the man and had his tongue ripped out with red-hot pincers. - TWoIaF; The Targaryen Kings: Aerys II

ii) The maiming of Ilyan Payne is seen as way too extreme even for ASoIaF (only exclusively by the fandom) and as "Aerys being unable to hear the hard truth", despite a monarch (unfortunately) being well in his rights to teach his subject "respect", if he openly mocks his better, extreme violent punishment from a ruler being normalized as sign of strength and a warning to any potential rebels.

The crimes everything boils down to;

The full depth of King Aerys's madness was subsequently revealed in his depraved actions against Lord Stark, his heir, and their supporters after they demanded redress for Rhaegar's wrongs. Instead of granting them fair hearing, King Aerys had them brutally slain, then followed these murders by demanding that Lord Jon Arryn execute his former wards, Robert Baratheon and Eddard Stark. - TWoIaF; The Fall of the Dragons: Robert’s Rebellion

iii) While the inverse-annals are clearly baised, GRRM has made it clear that Aerys is responsible for the rebellion (x), and that his call to execute them all was another product of his cruelty and paranoia. Which omits any nuance the situation had such nuances as;

Brandon and Rickard were on their way again back to Riverrun for the impending wedding between him and Catelyn Tully, when word reached Brandon of Lyanna's supposed abduction by Prince Rhaegar Targaryen. Brandon, along with his squire Ethan Glover, Kyle Royce, Elbert Arryn, and Jeffory Mallister, rode to King's Landing immediately. Upon entering the Red Keep, Brandon shouted for Rhaegar to "come out and die". Rhaegar was not present, however, and Brandon and his companions were arrested by King Aerys II Targaryen and charged with plotting Rhaegar's murder. - awoiaf.westeros.org; Aerys II Targaryen: Year of the False Spring

A paramount lord and his heir barging into the royal court of a king (half of which would rather dethrone him and most did not see him as the ruler of the realm) and brazenly demand the crown prince's head BASED ON RUMORS alone in front of said court. For a supposed crime that stands in direct contrary to what is known of said heir (x, x, x).

While it's a well established fact that this fandom only intrest is to present House Stark as poor, oppressed, altruistic and wronged victims and House Targaryen as the evil warmongering lunatics, it is still mind blowing to see people glorify Brandon's stupidity as Protective Big Bro Thang™, talk how he should have escape the situation unscattered (because they believe the starks are the Main Characters™ and should have all the Syndromes (like plot armor) of one) and his execution being yet another uncalled atrocity of Aerys's madness, when Brandon literally has committed high treason through his rash actions. Even Catelyn call Brandon's action "rash" and his would-be father-in-law Hoster Tully called him a "gallant fool" for it.

A highborn father that would have politely ask them to lay out their complains (again) behind closed doors so he might calmly listen to these allegations and their wish to see his oldest one dead after the spectacle of their entrance, has yet to be named by obnoxious neutrals and "intellectuals" preaching such scenario as the solution to this fiasco.

Realistically speaking, what should Aerys have done with a paramount lord, his heir and their escort breaking the king's peace and threatening House Targaryen's power by demanding the Crown Prince's head? Insulted this gravely that they about to rise in rebellion with mighty allies. When it comes to this situation Aerys had been caught between a rock and a hard place;

He could have a) dismissed the accusations, let them go home and have the realm think of him as weak. Home to their seats, where hot headed Brandon would have likely raised the north in rebellion anyway and whose brother's foster brother Robert Baratheon would have likely joined him for his wounded pride. Risk the riverlands to stand with them as well for their siege lord's daughter Catelyn would have wed Brandon Stark. Possibly the Vale too, for Jon Arryn's beloved forster son's brother has raised in rebellion and his bride is Lord Tully's other daughter and Brandon Stark's sister in law. Or b) use this incident to dispose his 'disloyal son', so his chosen heir Viserys would have less threats in his ascend on the throne later on, yet simountanastly signaling the realm that one can demand a Targaryen prince's head based on rumors alone. Establishing a most dangerous precedent for the future of House Targaryen.

What might have salvage the situation without an all-out-war or an unacceptable, most dangerous precedent for House Targaryen('s might) would have been to dismiss the accusations. Instead of summoning the fathers of the escort and executing them all along with Rickard and Brandon, he should have send them to the Wall (which would have made Eddard Lord of Winterfell) and send for Benjen Stark as cupbearer or squire at the court (so he might functions as hostage over the North).

And even this might have not have worked for i) it would have been still a too mild punishment for conspiring to murder the Iron Throne' heir and ii) for they could have just refuse to take the black once at the Wall, return to Winterfell with the help of the Night Watch and call to war anyway (though House Tully and Arryn might have been more reluctant to join them in such a scenario)

Do these nuances make Rickard, Brandon and Co's execution less gruesome and the call for Eddard and Robert's death morally justified? No, but they show that they could have been committed by a sane sovereign too. But instead of being seen as actions of a madman they would have been seen as too-harsh (failed) precautions. (IMO Tywin and Stannis would act the same way in such a situation with the big difference that they would be cold and caculative, whereas Aerys had become aroused)

Princess Elia would have gone as well, but he forbade it. Somehow he had gotten it in his head that Prince Lewyn must have betrayed Rhaegar on the Trident, but he thought he could keep Dorne loyal so long as he kept Elia and Aegon by his side. - TWpIaF; The Fall of the Dragons; The End

iv) Same with iii) if one was to look at the political situation (especially before the rebellion) and analyze Aerys's actions without dismissing them all as one kf a deranged lunatic, this particular action was actually quite savvy.

Prior to the rebellion, the royal court had been devided into two parties; the king's and the prince's;

Chief amongst the Mad King's supporters were three lords of his small council: Qarlton Chelsted, master of coin, Lucerys Velaryon, master of ships, and Symond Staunton, master of laws. The eunuch Varys, master of whisperers, and Wisdom Rossart, grand master of the Guild of Alchemists, also enjoyed the king's trust. Prince Rhaegar's support came from the younger men at court, including Lord Jon Connington, Ser Myles Mooton of Maidenpool, and Ser Richard Lonmouth. The Dornishmen who had come to court with the Princess Elia were in the prince's confidence as well, particularly Prince Lewyn Martell, Elia's uncle and a Sworn Brother of the Kingsguard. But the most formidable of all Rhaegar's friends and allies in King's Landing was surely Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning. - TWoIaF; The Fall of the Dragons: The Year of the False Spring

Essentially the Second Dance of Dragons was brewing;

To Grand Maester Pycelle and Lord Owen Merryweather, the King's Hand, fell the unenviable task of keeping peace between these factions, even as their rivalry grew ever more venomous. In a letter to the Citadel, Pycelle wrote that the divisions within the Red Keep reminded him uncomfortably of the situation before the Dance of the Dragons a century before, when the enmity between Queen Alicent and Princess Rhaenyra had split the realm in two, to grievous cost. A similarly bloody conflict might await the Seven Kingdoms once again, he warned, unless some accord could be reached that would satisfy both Prince Rhaegar's supporters and the king's. - TWoIaF; The Fall of the Dragons: The Year of the False Spring

So contrary to the fandom's insistence of Aerys's reason behind his prohibition for Elia and the children to leave the capital being unreasonable paranoia or malice (or even godamn racism??), Aerys was smart. By ensuring that they were located in the capital, he gave the dornish forces a reason to defend it (essentially ensuring his survival) then had Elia and the children been safely in Sunspear or Dragonstone, they would have had no reason to continue to fight (and be slowly overrun) for the defense of King's Landing if the only one remaining there was the king that had disinherited Rhaegar's entire lineage and proclaimed Viserys his heir after Rhaegar death at the Trident (ergo putting an end to Dorne's hope to size the Iron Throne through a Martell-Queen Consort and later a half Martell-king).

Also contrary to the fandom's insistence on how Aerys's cruelty and paranoia breaks even Westeros's norm in taking hostages in war, even from his supposed allies and families (through marriages) is not unusual; the kings of the Winter are known to have taken child hostages to secure their subjects' submission, Quentyn had been given to Lord Yronwood as "blood debt" by Doran Martell. Theon had been taken hostage by Eddard Stark to ensure his father's submission. The Redwyne twins have been taken hostages by the Lannister court to ensure their father's loyalty (to lend them his fleet in their war). Where is the condemnation for them? Also contrary to the fandom's insistence highborn hostages, especially those who are considered family members are also not treated badly. They experience most of the privileges their birth and status grants them. Cases such Sansa in King's Landing and Jaime in Riverrun are the expection, not the rule.

But what is to expect from a fandom that lays the blame for Elia Martell and her children's gruesome murders on Aerys Targaryen (her father-in-law and their grandfather) and Rhaegar Targaryen (her by-then dead husband and their father) instead on the heads of the rebels like the liege lord of the men to commit the murders (Tywin Lannister) or the self-styled king (Robert Baratheon) who sanctioned these murders later (going so far as to making mentioned liege lord his father-in-law)?

Aerys II Targaryen has always been exclusively presented by the fandom as this horrendous sadistic monster without a heart. Every act of his a epitome of stupidity and cruelty with Aerys's madness as an inevitable by-product from coming from an incestuous union, despite this not supported being the text.

Aerys Targaryen was not born that way. His mental state in his later years was a product of the immense trauma he experienced throughout his entire life; from witnessing the death of his entire family when he was 15 years old, to being powerless as he and Rhaella were forced to suffer still births, miscarriages and dead babes in the cribs to his imprisonment and torture in Duskendale (x). The justified constant fear of being dethroned by his own son (x) and the feeling of never being deemed worthy or competent enough by others to the point where he not even seen as The King (x) likely only added to his instability and cruelty.

His paranoia, especially concerned Tywin Lannister and Rhaegar Targaryen, was also anything but irrational; Aerys was not in the wrong to mistrust Rhaegar as he later planned to dethrone him, which could only result in Aerys’s death should Rhaegar wish to ascend the throne as comfortable as possible. Nor for being wary of Tywin Lannister, who gambled with his life at Duskendale in hopes to get Rhaegar on the throne with his daughter as his queen. (x)

Aerys was not a fool to prevent Tywin from becoming Rhaegar’s father-in-law. Before the rebellion, they were the biggest threats to Aerys’s reign. Not only did he prevent an alliance between his two greastest threats, in giving Rhaegar Elia Martell to wife. The princess to the least densly populated kingdom (which is quite hated by the more "civilized" southern kingdoms such as the Dornish Marches, Reach and Stormlands for their blood feuds (x,x)) and with a small army, he also prevented Rhaegar from gaining exponentially more support had he married a noble daughter from a house with more wealth, resources and men (like Cersei Lannister)

And mind you (!) had Steffon Baratheon succeeded in finding a "maid of noble birth from an old Valyrian bloodline" in the Free Cities, Aerys would have given Rhaegar's a woman to wife that has absolutely no ties to any kingdom (which would have given him no political advantage beside whatever wealth her family would have had across the sea) and who would bee seen as 'foreign stranger', similar to Larra Rogar, Viserys II's wife.

Such a choice at the time was politically quite savvy: His supposed heir secured the succession without shifting the power balance too much by preventing Rhaegar from amassing even more support through an more politically advantageous match. That this choice later on backfired in the face of an external political threat (e.g. the rebellion) was unforeseeable and unfortunate.

Jaime's rise to a kingsguard was as well a less then perfect solution by Aerys for his (justified) fears; in appointing Jaime as kingsguard he had gained the most valuable hostage against any possible rebellion from Tywin Lannister, but he also had to endure Tywin's son day and night as shadow. Aerys seemed to have played by the motto "keep your friends close, but your foes closer" with Jaime as he had previously done with Tywin, whom he had refused to dismiss as Hand or accept his resignation (x, x) and suffered greatly from it (at first mentally, later with his life). (x)

As said, the reason why I wrote this meta was to showcase the imsincerity of the fandom's obsession and exaggeration of Aerys II's "madness" and cruelty, as well as to point the nuances that are often overlooked simply because Aerys was mad.

Afterall, how comes that Aerys's cruelty and madness is more empathized than anyone else's by the fandom? Where does the intrest and obsession for it as well as the need to deliberately twist Aerys's relatively peaceful reign (x, x) into one of terror unseen before come from?

Simple because Aerys's cruelty and madness must be given such great narrative and political importance, and his reign must be one of the darkest times yet, so when dany antis proceed to write their "metas" of how of Daenerys will be rejected by Westeros, never know home or love, become the-hidden-mad!queen-all-along™ and step into her father's foot steps by torching King's Landing and committing mass murder, have a "basis". The first one is even more ridiculous considering that Rhagear was beloved during his days, and is still, despite actually living under Aerys's roof till his 16th birthday, unlike Dany.

Nothing more, and one knows so because the same people won't predicted the same for their tool-character "Aegon VI" who is the Mad King's supposed grandson and son to Prince Rhaegar, whom most of them condemn just as harshly for whatever headcanon (pRophECy oBbsEsSed, vIsenYa) that has been treated as canon for too long. Not to mention that there is an abundance of characters whose fathers were horrible, yet there aren't daily posts on a character's utter mental decline based upon their father's flaws. (bioessentialism)

In conclusion and defense of Aerys II Targaryen; i) he is as much of a victim of tragedy and cruelty than he was an enabler, ii) his paranoia was not unreasonable iii) his cruelty is not at all unique for the medivial ASoIaF world nor in comparison to other characters. In fact neither his paranoia nor his cruelty makes him stand out in his madness, but rather his manic-depressive behavior iv) how his mental state does not render all of his decisions as one of a mad man.

I would also like to say that a forced abdication of Aerys decided by a Great Council with Rhaegar ascending the throne would have neither be the perfect solution as it is often presented. Had his abdication gone relatively smoothly (which would NOT have necessarily be the case (x)) it would shaken the laws and rules of Westeros to its core.

As the first Great Council had done it, it would have given the lords of the realm again the idea and power to decide who is to rule them. Which would have not be the positive, progressive, humanitarian step towards democracy as most mistake it but path a way of war and instability ambitious, vile lords would have misused for their own gain yet again.

If the first Great Council had established an iron precedent on the matter of succession, than such a second one (in which the lords could abdicate their rightful king because they are not content with him) would have path the way for any man to inherit his male relative's position if he manges to convince enough of his subjects to abdicate their current sovereign and put him as his heir (as son, brother, nephew, grandson etc...) through bribery and whatnot.

An era of chaos unseen would follow. Just imagine what the lords of the realm would have done with a king like Aegon V that would robb them some of their absolute power through his reforms. It would hollow out the crown of any power to protect and serve the small folk (be it through humanitarian reforms, against its lords or plan costly, necessary infrastructure)

The wars such as the Wot5K are a direct result of the illegitimacy of Robert's rebellion and how it had shaken Westeros's laws. Instead of the once rather cemented hereditary monarchy, Robert opened the door for Westeros to be wreaked by every sovereign that believes he can muster enough manpower to establish himself a self-styled King. (x)

IMO instead of gathering a Second Great Council, Rhaegar honestly should have just found a discreet way to have his father's poisoned. Although this would have been OCC for noble, valiant Rhaegar and quite harsh to expect from a son to do to his father (no matter their estranged relationship) it would the most practical decision.

#asoiaf #asoiaf meta #targnation #aerys ii targaryen #robert's rebellion #rhaegar targaryen #elia martell #tywin lannister #robert baratheon #eddard stark #rickard stark #brandon stark (son of rickard stark)#jon arryn #house darklyn #house hollard #the defiance of duskendale #sack of king's landing #this will definitely become my most controversial meta (the way I will be canceled for this-)

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bbygirl-aemond · 1 year

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you mentioned in your post about alyn and addam’s heritage about the blood correlating with commanding dragons.

so you mean that since they have less targaryen blood they can command their dragons less? how would that work with daenerys?

i always took it as less of they can’t control their dragons and more of showing that dragons are still sentient beings with their own thoughts and wills so it’s interesting to see other peoples thoughts on the storms end scene.

bc i don’t think “controlling” your dragon is as cut and dry as a lot of people make it out to be. it’s not like mind control. idk i’m always intrigued to hear your thoughts on stuff.

This actually brings me to a point I've been wanting to make for a while! Daenerys's bond with her dragons is not a dragon-rider bond as we see with all previous Targaryens. Remember that dragons did not choose to serve House Targaryen; they were forced to by magic. In a way, they're just a cog in the machine of slavery that was Old Valyria. It's actually more significant for Daenerys not to have enough Targaryen blood to rely upon this old magic, because it means her dragons are not slaves to blood magic. They don't serve her because they're forced to; they serve her because they want to. Why? Because she's their mother. Let's discuss:

Daenerys is tied to her dragons in several different ways that are all very deliberately unrelated to her having Targaryen blood. This is again meant to emphasize and re-emphasize that we are not looking at a Targaryen dragon-rider bond, but something else entirely. Something new.

First, Daenerys hatches her eggs in a blood ritual that she completes intuitively. This is literally unheard of. Countless other Targaryens (Aegon II, Aegon III, Viserys II, Aegon V, Duncan, Aerys II, etc.), all with many times more concentrated blood than Daenerys, have tried and failed. I mean, Aegon V and Duncan literally died trying to hatch eggs. Before Daenerys, the only thing that ever hatched a dragon egg was its dragon parent. Even in Old Valyria it's unheard of. So Daenerys was able to hatch her dragons, to literally bring them to life, and not because of her Targaryen blood.

Second, Daenerys literally breastfeeds her dragons in the books. Like, she's still producing milk because of her recent birth, and right after the baby dragons hatch she puts their mouths to her breasts and they actually drink her milk. Again, no Targaryen has ever done this, not even back in Valyria. This is just another way that Daenerys's bond to her dragons is separated from her Targaryen blood and predecessors.

Third, Daenerys is more likely than not meant to be Azor Ahai, or the Prince(ss) Who Was Promised. Think of Melisandre's description of Azor Ahai: "born again amidst salt and smoke to wake dragons out of stone." Daenerys is called "Stormborn" for a reason; she was born in salt and smoke. And she woke three dragons out of fossilized (stone) eggs. Azor Ahai is tied to super old magic that predates the Targaryens and even Old Valyria: the Empire of Ghis. So let's add this to the list of ways in which Daenerys's relationship to her dragons is specifically contrasted against Targaryens.

Lastly, Daenerys is specifically meant to be like the anti-Targaryen. She's set up as the Breaker of the Wheel, with the Wheel literally being created by Aegon the Conqueror and the Targaryen Dynasty. She is distant enough from the hellhole that was Old Valyria, and she grew up underprivileged enough, that she has things like empathy and understanding for the smallfolk that we've never seen from Targaryens in power before. So of course her bond with dragons would be different from the Targaryens who came before her. Everything about her is meant to be different from those who came before her; that's the entire point of her character arc so far.

TLDR: Daenerys isn't a dragon rider in the sense of a Targaryen dragon rider. She isn't relying on the Valyrian blood magic that all of our faves in HotD are relying on. That's what makes her so powerful, and so unique: her power over dragons is not because of her Targaryen blood, but in spite of it.

For who else but the Breaker of Chains would wield the power of dragons not because she forced them, but because she loved them and let them choose her first?

#daenerys targaryen #daenerys stormborn #daenerys #house targaryen #hotd #house of the dragon #got #game of thrones #asoiaf #got meta #meta #hotd meta #asoiaf meta

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istumpysk · 10 months

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Hello! I’ve really been enjoying your chapter rereads. I’m a big fan of both Daenerys and Sansa (although unlike many Dany fans, I like her for her potential as a villain. I’ll be a fan of the character whether or not GRRM decides to follow through with her villain arc. There are things that she could do that would make me stop liking her but for now I hold the position that I like her, hero or villain).

Have you ever given much thought to potential anti-parallels between Dany and Sansa? They do share a lot of common experiences but with mostly different outcomes and I think their trajectories are clearly pretty different. I think there’s some really fertile ground for comparison.

1. Both are forced into marriages with much older men as political pawns. Both are traumatic experiences but as a result, Sansa ends up losing power whereas Dany gains it. 2. Sansa’s magical creature dies (RIP Lady) and Dany’s magical creatures are brought back from the dead. 3. Both are in a sort of exile as a result of the crimes of their fathers. Difference is that Ned didn’t actually really commit a crime and Aerys was a monster. 4. Both have a dark mentor who is also a spy, who makes unwanted advances and specifically force a kiss upon them. Both girls remind these men of another woman they loved. 5. Hair is somewhat significant. Sansa has distinctive Tully auburn, which she must dye. Dany has distinctive Valyrian silver, which is burned away. 6. Both have a dead older brother who incited great violence by having extramarital affairs (I guess Robb wasn’t married yet but I count it). 7. Both are romantics who love stories/songs and go through a sort of disillusionment. However, Sansa becomes more aware and realistic whereas Dany falls deeper into delusion. 8. Lemons. The house with the red door and the lemon tree vs lemon cakes.

Im still only like 30% through AFfC but know how it and ADwD differ from the show so idc about book spoilers. I’d really love to hear your input and if you can think of any other parallels or anti-parallels!

Hey anon, great list!

Admittedly, I suck at drawing direct parallels between characters, so I can only think of the contrasting aspects of their personalities, such as their leadership styles, their approaches to power, their notions of identity and self-perception, etc.

One thing that does stand out is how differently the author explores the themes of home and motherhood in both their POVs. A couple of people have written about it before, perhaps you'd like to read it.

Thanks for your message. :)

#stumpy ask #anon

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finitefall · 1 year

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One of the antis Dany arguments that really upsets me the most (besides their bullshit about slavery) is blaming her because of Aerys II. You can’t just go around blaming children for their parents’ actions. Good for you if your whole family was amazing, but that doesn’t make you a good person. Because you’re not your father, your mother, your brother or your sister. You’re your own person and you make your own choices. You can turn out to be a terrible person even if your father won a Nobel Peace Prize, and you can turn out to be a good person even if your father was a serial killer and a rapist. Imagine meeting someone and asking them about their parents to judge if you should befriend them or tell them to go to hell.

#ASOIAF #Daenerys Targaryen #tw rape #cath talks

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warsofasoiaf · 6 months

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At the moment, Jamie is the only one left who played a direct role in the downfalls of House Targaryen. Robert, Eddard, Jon Arryn, Hoster Tully, even Tywin are all dead and gone. Which means if Jamie ever fell to the hands of Aegon or Danaerys, then all their wrath would fall on him.

I don't think that's the case for either candidate

Aegon VI and Varys are going to hold that Aegon is a worthy king and thus, separatist sentiment of any kind is wrong. Varys would likely believe that anyone who believes that someone *else* holding the authority to determine the virtues of a ruling king to be a threat to his own designs of a perfect prince.

Dany specifically views any anti-Targaryen sentiment as illegitimate. So even if the North wishes to hold their idea of "The King in the North" or the Riverlands wishes to find the heirs of Robb Stark as the legitimate King of the Trident, that would be considered unacceptable to Daenerys's eyes. To Daenerys, the overthrow of Aerys II was illegitimate - she is the rightful heir of the entire Seven Kingdoms. So I don't agree that she'd only focus upon Jaime - she'd be happy to prosecute Starks that maintained the legitimacy of Robb's kingdom and out of a sense of inherited guilt for overthrowing Aerys, because accepting that the Targaryens were worthy of overthrow would mean accepting the legitimacy of the Baratheon regime, which she is unwilling to do.

Thanks for the question, Anon.

SomethingLikeALawyer, Hand of the King

#daenerys targaryen #aegon vi targaryen

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baelorbreakbeds · 1 year

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opinion on every targ:inspired by @wendawyllawillow

anti aegon I.pro visenya.rhaenys centrist.aenys centrist.pro maegor.pro rhaena the lesbian.pro aegon the uncrowned pro aerea.anti jaehaerys.alysanne centrist.baelon and alyssa centrist.aemon centrist.pro vaegon.pro saera and viserra.anti daemon.anti viserys I.rhaenys centrist.anti aegon ii.rhaenyra centrist.pro heleana.aemond centrist.pro aemond insanity.daeron centrist.pro baela and rhaena.pro aegon iii.anti viserys ii .pro viserys ii being in charge.anti aegon the unworthy.pro naerys.aemon the dragonknight centrist.pro daeron the good. bloodraven centrist.bittersteel centrist pro bittersteel and bloodravens haterism.pro shiera seastar.daemon blackfyre centrist.pro baelor breakspear and maekar targ men of all time.pro baelor breakspears hater son whose name i forgot.aerys i centrist.pro aegon the unlikely.anti aegon the unlikelys possible murder of his family via wildfire.anti jaehaerys ii.anti shaera.pro rhaella.anti aerys ii.anti rhaegar.anti viserys ii.pro daenerys

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goodqueenaly · 1 year

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Viserys said "Dragons did not mate with beasts of the field" and was a creep to Dany. Daemon Blackfyre felt entitled to having Princess Daenerys as his bride. Is it possible that Aerion, who saw himself as a dragon reborn, thought he was "owed" a marriage with one of his sisters? The timing of Egg's birth makes me wonder if Dyanna had him so close to Daella's age so Maekar would betroth Daella to Aegon instead of the sadistic Aerion.

Do I think that Aerion might have assumed, or even demanded, that he would marry one of his sisters out of an inflated sense of Targaryen superiority? I think it’s certainly possible. That Aerion was willing to torture his younger brother using the tradition of Targaryen incestuous marriage as the basis of his threat may well suggest that Aerion harbored some resentment or jealousy at Egg’s (again, for now only theorized) betrothal to Daella compared to his, Aerion’s, lack of a similar incestuous betrothal. Nor can it be understated the level to which Aerion embraced the arrogance of Targaryen royal superiority (and, of course, married that arrogance to his personal sadism), with Aerion viciously attacking Tanselle for (as he saw) insulting House Targaryen with the dragon death in her puppet show and asking for Dunk’s head because Dunk dared to lay hands on one of the blood royal. At the same time, there is nothing as yet to suggest that Aerion necessarily knew that he would not be married to a sister - if Daella were (again, speculatively) Egg’s fiancée, there might have remained the possibility in Aerion’s mind that he could marry Rhae - nor indeed any suggestion that Aerion actually demanded or expressed the opinion that he was actually owed one of his sisters in marriage.

Do I think Maekar and Dyanna specifically conceived Egg out of a desire (by one or both parents) to keep Aerion from marrying Daella? I personally doubt it. Even if Dyanna and/or Maekar thought that it would be expected of them to marry their new daughter to one of their own sons - already an uncertain conclusion when Daeron II had moved away from incestuous marriages for his sons - and even if either or both wanted to avoid betrothing Aerion and Daella (assuming that Aerion had by then demonstrated his true sadistic nature to one or both of his parents - again, uncertain when Aerion was said to be all smiles around his father) - there was nothing to say that Maekar and Dyanna would or could not have then betrothed young Daella to Daeron or even Aemon (not yet destined for the Citadel when Daella was born, given that he was sent when he was 10 and that Aemon was himself only a year older than his sister). Nor do I think there is anything particularly suspicious or intriguing about the birth dates of Maekar and Dyanna’s children: Daeron and Aerion were around one to three years apart, Aerion and Aemon somewhere between four and eight years apart, Aemon, Daella, and Egg each a year apart, and then Rhae somewhere between a year and nine years younger than Egg (although I’d personally guess on the closer end of that spectrum, given their interactions in childhood). Rather than trying to fix the record, as it were, to prevent an incestuous union for Aerion, Maekar and Dyanna were, I think, simply having children in the ordinary course of (at least apparently) amicable Westerosi marriages.

It’s worth pointing out, of course, that Aerion did go on to marry a relative - not a sister but a cousin, Daenora, the daughter of his paternal uncle Rhaegel. It remains to be seen exactly why Aerion married Daenora, and indeed what any of the parties involved felt about the union. Was this a compromise with Alys Arryn when Maekar came to the throne - that while Daeron would marry Kiera of Tyrosh (thus, perhaps, preserving the anti-Blackfyre Tyroshi alliance), Aerion would marry Aerys I’s sometime heiress, giving her a mainline royal marriage while not making Daeron’s claim depend on Daenora? Was this Alys’ own ambition coming to the fore, perhaps after Daeron’s death (maybe around the mid- or late 220s AC) - seeing that, with the late heir’s only child being a “simple” girl, the path was open to have a grandson via Daenora sit the Iron Throne? Was this Aerion’s own desire, to seize the nearest Targaryen relative he could in order to assert the superiority of the Targaryen line (and his superiority within that line)? Was this a move of desperation on the part of Maekar - that Aerion’s deplorable behavior (made more public, perhaps, after he killed Haegon Blackfyre following the latter’s surrender in the Third Blackfyre Rebellion) had cooled the desire of aristocratic Westerosi families to seek a marriage with him, and that cousin Daenora was simply the only choice available and willing to marry him (and provide male heirs where Daeron the Drunken had not)? The marriage could have been made for any of these reasons, any combination of these reasons, or completely different reasons; we shall have to wait for Fire and Blood Volume 2. (But somebody stop me before I start wildly speculating on Alys Arryn as a figure like Mahaut of Artois in The Accursed Kings.)

#asoiaf meta #marriage making #aerion targaryen

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