#AND WE HAVEN'T SEEN HARDLY ANY INTERACTION BETWEEN THEM
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Houseki No Kuni Chapter 108 Thoughts: Everything Stays....
Hello all. I hope the month of April was good to everyone. It was alright for me, though I'm just in awe by how fast it went! Time really goes by too quickly as you get older.
Speaking of time, would you look at that? The final chapter of Houseki no Kuni was released! 108 chapters over the course of 12 years. And I've been following it for nearly 5 of those years! Wow! That is quite the feat, Ms. Ichikawa.
I'd been waiting for this day for a long time, and the feeling is bittersweet, with the overlaying feeling of relief. This emotional rollercoaster that Ms. Ichikawa had sent us on has finally reached it's dock.
Phos's story is finally complete. What a ride it had been!
Now the question is: Was I satisfied?....
I'll do my best to answer this. I don't know how long this post will be, but I'm hoping that it won't be too long (edit: Oops. I was wrong.) And as always, please feel free share your own thoughts if you're interested!
Here we go:
Phos's True End: Was It Satisfying?
I reread this chapter a few times to answer this question and to be honest, I still reach the same conclusion: It was fitting. Not absolutely bad or 100% amazing, but in terms of Phos's whole journey throughout this story, I think this was a fitting ending for Phos, and that's good. And if anything else, it's a little ironic.
I mentioned in my last post that I thought it was funny that the remaining piece of Phos had become the youngest/newest member of the pebble species much like how they originally were at the beginning off the whole manga. It seems though, the similarities don't end there because of this little interaction between Eyeball/Pita-pat and Pebble Phos:
I'm sure this was supposed to be a little cheeky conversation and Eyeball/Pita-pat didn't really mean it. But still, this was an interesting exchange to include in this final chapter, especially right before it's implied that Eyeball/Pita-pat passed away.
One intriguing story choice Ichikawa made was having Pebble Phos continuously fall apart near the end to the point that they become a small spec. To be honest, I was not sure how to feel about this part when I first read, especially considering how now there's hardly any of Phos left now. Like, after Eyeball/Pita-pat saved that last bit of Phos so they could have a nice life away from humanity, it'd be unfair for them to break apart again to nothing after all of that. But I did like how the pebbles decided to view Pebble Phos' changes; that their fragments surely became beautiful comets that would brighten someone's day. And that shot with original Phos was nice...
Also, I saw the post that implied that Ichikawa released this final chapter around the same time that a rare famous comet was supposed to be seen on Earth. I want to say that I think it was a pure coincidence, but I'm not putting anything past this author!
This chapter made me think of that one song from Adventure Time: Everything Stays. If you haven't heard of it, please give a listen. It's a song about life and the course of change. It focuses on how even if things appear to stay the same over the course of time, changes still occur, even if subtle. Phos certainly changed a lot throughout their story through intense mind and physical altering events. But I also think they changed subtly even during the less intense moments. I think the moments in this final chapter fit with this song, too. Phos was always evolving, even when it didn't appear so. Through their interactions and lack thereof with others and their environment, Phos was always changing and growing, ever so subtly. And even in this last chapter, Phos is still evolving and that'll likely never end.
Interesting... after thinking about it some more, I think I feel a little more satisfied with how this chapter/story ended. I'm glad that Ms. Ichikawa didn't pull some other twist near the end; that certainly would have ruined it for me. Am I 100% happy with how Phos's story ended? I don't think so. But to me, it's a fitting end.
But what do I think about the series as a whole?
When The Journey Ends: Was It Worth It?
There are very few manga or written stories that had me wanting to see how things end because more often than not, there aren't that many stories that I've read to completion. Part of it is because I don't want the story to end; basically, I'd have the thought process that if I don't know how the story ends, the story doesn't end! Perfect logic (sarcasm). Though this usually happens because I lose interest or because the story goes in directions that I don't like, I'd say one of the main reasons I end up dropping a series is because of how a story ends. How a story ends can completely change one's opinion of a story, and I've seen my fair share of stories that end badly. Sometimes the ending is abrupt and not satisfying, especially if it was lead by a big build up, or the ending is a result of a jarring story pivot that seems to come out of left field. It just seems that many creators don't know how to end their story well. And if I like a story a lot, sometimes I'm too scared to see how it ends. Partially because I don't want the story to end, but mostly because I don't want the end to ruin my experience.
Houseki no Kuni is a unique case for me. I know I've mentioned this before but I'll state it again: I don't think I've ever been so invested in a story like this before. Though that investment had dwindled over time, partially due to me developing new interests, life, and being occasionally dissatisfied with certain story choices, I wanted to see this how this story would end no matter what. And now that it's done, I'm glad I stuck it out.
Was this story perfect? No. There were several story decisions that I wish was either told differently or completely omitted that could have made the story stronger in my opinion.
Did I get a too invested in this story? During certain points, most definitely haha. I remember getting very emotional about certain chapters when I first started making this series of meta posts. I remember seeing some posts from people stating that they no longer liked the manga because of the direction it was going and in some cases, I could see where they were coming from.
Do I regret getting so invested in this story? No. No I don't. Despite not liking certain story aspects, I do not regret getting invested in this story. Though the story was not perfect, this was such a unique experience that I'm grateful to have gone through.
I plan on talking more about how I feel about Houseki no Kuni as a whole in another post. I intend to delve into what I loved about it and what I wish was different. While I could include that stuff here, I think this post is long enough. I've already started working on it, but I know it'll be a while before it's done; you bet there will be some parts with me ranting a little haha
But long story short, despite some grievances I have with some parts of the story, I feel satisfied with how it ended. And I'm glad that I read this series.
What Happens Next: Thank you, HnK Fandom
I want to thank those who've read, liked, and even commented on my posts! I didn't think so many of you would like, let alone read, my longwinded messy posts. I loved every feedback I got, even the ones that didn't agree with me. You made me love being part of this niche fandom. Like I said in the previous section, I have at least one more post that I want to make detailing everything I feel about Houseki No Kuni as a whole. I might make another one that's more for fun, but we'll see. I encourage anyone who's interested to share your own thoughts on the post! I seriously love reading different perspectives.
But after those posts, I don't know how involved I'll be in the fandom afterwards. I may repost some art and other people's meta posts on occasion. But when it comes to meta commentary, these will likely be my last posts about HnK. I have other fandoms that I like to follow, though I don't make posts about them. Perhaps I will, though I know they will be nothing like the posts I've made about Houseki no Kuni. This was the only series I've ever felt compelled to analyze so deeply, which makes it special for me. If I were to post anything about the other stuff I'm into, it'll most likely be of fanart that I made for my own personal enjoyment. I know scare many of my followers away since they'll not be HnK related. But who knows? I haven't made any HnK art in a long time... Maybe one of these days, I can try to make some HnK art again. I have some unfinished pieces on my computer that's now years old. Yeah, I should finish them when I have the time. That'd be a fun little send off.
Anyhow, if you are interested, please hang around for my final HnK meta posts! And when it's out, please please PLEASE share your own thoughts in it! Don't be afraid to share your opinions. I promise I don't bite.
So that's it. These are my thoughts of the final chapter of Houseki no Kuni. I might add more to it, but I'm fine with what I put out. Wow... I still can't believe I got into this series 5 years ago! So much had changed in my life since then. Despite everything, it was worth it.
Thank you again for reading my jargon. It means a lot and I can't wait to post my true final meta posts about Houseki no Kuni.
What a ride this was.
Until next time...
#houseki no kuni#land of the lustrous#hnk#hnk spoilers#hnk meta#lotl spoilers#hnk phos#lotl#hnk spoiler#hnk phosphophyllite#hnk manga#houseki no kuni spoilers#personal thoughts#hnk chapter 108#phosphophillyte#phos#hnk manga spoilers#manga
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we need an episode where lark and glenn FINALLY get the fucked up father-son interaction they deserve and i've decided it'll be called "lark! the herald angels sing"
#GLENN WAS THE ONE WHO TAUGHT LARK HOW TO DRIVE#AND WE HAVEN'T SEEN HARDLY ANY INTERACTION BETWEEN THEM#dndads#is there a word for a parental otp because thats me with them#also glenn with scary i think she should have her nice stepdad and her cool demon dad#said it before ill say it again#glenn could be the obnoxious girldad we all want if he had any sufficient interaction with scary#he would ADORE this kid i will die on this hill#DNDADS CREW IF YOU SEE THIS IM GIVING THIS IDEA AWAY 4 FREE unless u rly wanted to pay#(/SILLY /SILLY THIS IS A JOKE)#idk man i'm in a funk rn
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CARNELIAN CONTENT BECAUSE I LOVE HER‼️💯💯
Anyways, since I no longer have a headache I can work on some stuff since i have free time :D !and since I still haven't finished the Winter and Carnelian parallels essay, and started another Carnelian analysis where I analysis every existing frame of her, here's another mini essay I did finish a little while back! Enjoy <3
It's interesting we never get to here about her home life, but since it's hinted she has no family I'm gonna make her an orphan. The only dragon in her life that she considered family was an older male skywing who she refers to as brother, named Amphorn. Amphorn didn't really see Carnelian as family but just someone to give his left overs too, but he did try to help her with her anger issues once. But it wasn't much, he just asked her to think "it's not worth my time." Any time someone did something small but annoying.
She didn't really have a place in the sky kingdom that she lived but just flew around hunting and sleeping if she wasn't being a child soldier.
Also I've seen hardly anybody talk about how apparently Carnelian and Peril have a history, and Tui never elaborated on it. In my head Carnelian only had a few interaction with Peril, and since they both hardly ever interact with anybody, they thought that was a friendship.
And since Peril liked Carnelian, she convinced Scarlet to let her in to watch her fight in the arena if she payed less than usual. Then Carnelian could afford to go to the arena more often.
There may have been a separation between them, I'm assuming the cause was Scarlet, which could explain one of the reasons Carnelian hated Scarlet so much. But Peril didn't really notice Carnelian, so it could be that they were much younger when the separation Occurred. And Peril not remembering Carnelian makes sense because she didn't remember when she burned the eggs on the brightest night even though she was 3, the age a dragonet is basically atleast 10 years old in human years.
If you guys have anymore friendship hcs about these two I would love to hear them ^^
#wof#wings of fire#microwaved textpost#carnelian wof#skywing#peril wof#scarlet wof#oc: Amphorn#<- i will talk about him more in my Carnelian survives fanfic
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sorry to bring drama to your anons but why is ikosburneraccount saying you’re a racist and she hates your writing? were you involved in some sort of discourse irt them and racism? I try to make sure all the ppl I follow are anti-racist so this is a little concerning 😅
I had no idea what this was referring to. I never followed that user so I didn't see their recent posts or know that they blocked me, hence why I was unknowingly reblogging their stuff. I haven't seen what they said about me and I won't--I'm not racist and won't have anyone force that narrative onto me. If this is referring to the Taylor Swift Matty Healy situation, I never supported that relationship. But that's the thing--I don't get involved with Taylor's relationships or her as a person. I like her music, but I don't personally know her or condone everything she does. The carbon emissions plane thing? That is not good. I don't agree with that. However I have been listening to Taylor's music since 2008, the Matty Healy situation was like two months ago. I'm not going to 'un-like' all that music in a short amount of time.
If you also take that line of reasoning--that we should reject anything related to anything morally wrong--we could not watch any movies or shows, because they almost all were made by a predator or involved child manipulation. It means we can't read this book series, because it has a relationship between an adult and a minor. Most of the tlc fans on tumblr--excluding myself--are minors. I don't like that this safe space is becoming volatile, especially for the ones who are Taylor Swift fans.
As for saying my writing is bad, well, that user just bookmarked my most recent fic as "the best kaider fic I've ever read" on ao3, though they've since removed that review.
I'm not on tumblr for drama. I'm here to post silly things about a book series. This isn't a Taylor Swift blog either. I reblogged occasional posts about her, and then I started getting asks about her and tlc. I never aggravated that user--I've hardly interacted with them to begin with--in fact, when they were wanting to write a fic similar to mine, I said go right ahead! But if people are trying to impose dramas on me that I never encouraged, I won't hesitate to protect myself and leave.
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I don't ship SS, and I haven't seen Naruto in 2 years so maybe that's why my understanding isn't the best. Could you explain what Sakura meant to Sasuke in their genin days and how he could simply break his bond with Sakura just with "Thank you". Bro didn't even give her a farewell and he didn't even turn to her during her "heartfelt confession". Obviously he cared for her as a comrade before and saw her like family like he did with the rest of Team 7, but then their bond was broken with just two words.
Hmm. Maybe that's it anon. Give the manga a read. Or just watch the canon episodes again. It will jog your memory, and you will find out Sasuke never thought of Sakura as family. He said that he started to see the shadow of his family in team seven at the very end, but it was in regard to Naruto, right after vote 2. Because it was Naruto that reminded him of his bonds with his family. Not once did he say Sakura's name in particular, but he said Naruto's. Elaborately.
As for the bond that was broken with two words, it was because he never felt close to her, and so that made it easy for him to break 'bonds' with her. Find it here, and some more supporting material, here, here and here. At best, he thought of her as a comrade.
And this scene came after he protected Naruto from a transformed Gaara's attacks. Sakura was actually saved by Naruto when Gaara captured Sakura. While a half dead Sasuke was willing being Naruto's landing pad to protect him from the evil tree trunk.
Sasuke only saw Naruto as his family. Like he said in chapter 698.
Regardless, after Itachi's visit in part one, Sasuke got a, what he thought of as a reality check, and so after that, it was easy for Sasuke to break off his bonds with Sakura and Kakashi without any effort. But when it came to Naruto, it took him the entire vote one and over 8 chapters.
It makes complete sense. I don't know why fans think Sasuke had such a 'bond' with Sakura. Maybe because of filler episodes. But he never had. Starting with their introduction in chapter three, Sakura ends up offending Sasuke about a matter which is very close to Sasuke's heart, family, after which she proceeds to mock Naruto's orphanhood. In front of another orphan. This is the first scene where they are shown to interact, and it sets a dysfunctional impression of Sasuke and Sakura's dynamic, as a result of Sakura's insensitivity and vain entitlement.
Their next interaction isn't much better either. Sasuke tries to get along with Sakura but Sakura still makes it about herself and acts self absorbed and unambitious. And Sasuke's reaction makes it clear how he feels about it.
He admonishes Sakura when she keeps pestering him with requests for a date, and admonishes her to pay attention to her training and not useless frivolities.
The rest of part one is where he tries to get along with her but keeps her at a distance still. They hardly had any significant interaction in land of waves arc. In forest of death arc, it was mostly about Sasuke and Naruto, and even then, Sasuke again admonishes her to pay attention. In the Chunin exams arc, Sasuke is basically gone after his battle with Dosu, and only comes back during the finals. What interaction we see between Sasuke and Sakura is where she tries to hug Sasuke or touch Sasuke, and Sasuke telling her to lay off most of the time. He gets triggered in forest of death arc, when he is under the effect of the curse mark which makes him more aggressive, which is when he hurts Zaku. But otherwise, where do we actually see them have a good moment? There's only one. Where Sasuke gives her confidence to participate in the chunnin exams. Just one.
Like even a cursory watch gives the impression that Sasuke is just not close to Sakura.
Even when he is leaving Konoha, Sakura herself admits this.
He doesn't say anything to her, keeps quiet around her, never even says a single word. What kind of 'bond' does this look like? She thinks no matter what, he always hates her.
He doesn't hate her, that is too strong an emotion for what he feels for her. He is at best tolerant towards her and at worst, apathetic. Many times, pure contemptuous because of her insensitivity and immaturity. Sasuke is a smart boy, a kind boy at heart, which is why he tries to be tolerant towards her, no matter how insensitive, self absorbed, unambitious, frivolous, fangirly and entitled she is. He gets her impulses and motivations, which is why he keeps calling her annoying and tells her when leaving Konoha, that he knew she wouldn't change. Because she didn't.
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***Long post, oh boy.
It is interesting that I've gotten some Asks about Fang and Vanille circulating on Twitter because of FFXVI. Lol I have seen the posts, and also the resistance of it from those who feel like it's looking down on Dion/Terrance (which I kind of agree with, let them have their spotlight).
Overall, we really just shouldn't care too much about that.
A lot of the fandom drama is just bleh at this point (really always was), and when you've seen SO much for years, it's easy to tell what is what. I mean, I'm now seeing people fighting over Jill/Clive of whether they're romantic or not, or if they align more with Clerith or Cloti. Lol Just why.
However, as for what some of ya'll requested from me about Fang and Vanille, to talk about how they're different from Jill/Clive or Vaan/Penelo—I mean, that's easy.
Jill/Clive? It's a random line in her young profile at the beginning that mentions Clive and Joshua "love her as a sister"—the same beginning that immediately has an NPC say Jill/Clive make a "handsome pair", show hardly any typical sibling action, dialogue, or contextual connotation between Jill/Clive in any scene (where they barely really interact until the Moon screen), and the interactions they do have don't really naturally fit into the box of "these two love each other as siblings or Clive views her as a younger sister". Apparently, it's also BOTH the ENG and JPN that mention a sibling relationship. Either way, the game also straight-forwardly writes them as romantic, so it doesn't matter even if it was true or not—unless you're trying to argue he thinks of her as both, there's no doubt they're romantic. Like, seriously, if you haven't finished the game well....trust, you'll find out they're romantic.
Vaan/Penelo? Well first, as far as I'm concerned, the BradyGames guide from years past is the one that carries the assumption that they're "brother and sister". Otherwise, the game, Ultimania, and even the Archive Ultimania only mention they're "like family"—in which case, this is obviously in reference to their orphan past where they were already childhood friends. Reks (Vaan's brother) went to war and Vaan's parents died, Vaan stays with Penelo's family as a result, and then soon after Penelo's parents ALSO died, and then now they BOTH were orphaned along with a bunch of other kids and grew up together working for Migelo as a group of orphans. It's not written for no reason or something that is not true—they're like family. And of course, you know that's a descriptor of a bond, of closeness—YOU can assume it defaults and is limited to a sibling relationship, but technically that's not true, and very often isn't. So, it doesn't even contrast their romanticism (which is hinted at in the 1st game, not just the 2nd), not to mention, it's not even a focus between their characters in the story. The friendship is really the focus, while the family aspect is more expressed for Vaan through dealing with his actual brother's death. The family in relation to their past and part of their bond is definitely a thing, don't get me wrong, but it's hardly emphasized within the game and a center for what they express about and to each other. That'd be the friendship, you just also happen to have romanticism applied eventually as well.
Fang and Vanille, though? It's the major focus of their characters, the family concept flows through them intentionally, consistently, and is also specific to being as sisters. Not to mention, it then is applicable to ALL things shown between them and EXPLAINS their behavior towards each other. In the Games, FFXIII and FFXIII World Previews, Ultimanias + Other credible guides like Piggyback, VA interviews, novelizations—this never stops being true for them and something implemented more than you'd EVER see between Clive/Jill or Vaan/Penelo. And it all "coincidentally" flows together as a whole for the family/sister application.
FFXIII World Preview - their introduction on the relationship chart is "same family surname". Even before the game's release, the family connotation is applied to them. While we learn the REASON in-world is because of them being from the same village, this more than obviously is for the purpose of serving the continuous family connotation THROUGH Fang and Vanille specifically to emphasis this, as supported by all other points below. Also, just a small thought, why choose this to introduce the characters mysteriously, and then later have a plethora of familial confirmations, if it's something that isn't representative of exactly what it foretells?
FFXIII Ultimania Chart - "relationship like sisters", enough said. Unlike Vaan/Penelo, it specifies WHAT family relationship they have. They didn't pull back from "same family surname", they took it steps further. The relationship chart is informative of something about the characters, and obviously the content can show something more than just the chosen moniker (e.g. Aqua/Terra/Ven aren't just "fellow pupils"), but it also isn't something that is FALSE information unless the content TELLS you it's false. It normally doesn't, and certainly didn't for Fang and Vanille, as per below.
FFXIII Scenario Ultimania, Archive Ultimania, LR Complete Guide - literally, everywhere, ESPECIALLY in writings relative to Fang, who is the older sister, protector, and most concerned over the other—this also correlates to why Fang's character centers around Vanille's more than the other way around (more on that later). Her descriptions really capture WHY she is the way she is towards Vanille and why the center of her character is protecting Vanille and keeping her from turning into a Cie'th. The FFXIII Scenario Ultimania even directly says in Fang's profile "Vanille is not just a childhood friend from the same hometown" and guess what works alongside this description: "To Fang, Vanille is an irreplaceable family member", "grew up like sisters", "they have a bond beyond family", “Since the original Final Fantasy XIII, Fang has always strived to protect Vanille, considering her as her own family", etc. etc. etc. Family, family, family. Being friends is absolutely a thing, don't get it twisted, but the family aspect not only in retrospect to growing up together, but in HOW they see each other, is consistent, ESPECIALLY for Fang. The Lightning Returns Complete Guide is from Piggyback, who is known for having the developers involved in the conception of their guides as well, and Toriyama himself is quoted in the book saying Fang considers Vanille as family.
FFXII Scenario Ultimania Stories - As a bonus, in Benny Matsuyama's short stories for all the characters, including separately in both Fang and Vanille's stories—in both stories, he doubles down on the same things as above, describing how Fang has this strong conviction and vow of protecting Vanille, who is like her younger sister, and wants to stop her from becoming a Cie'th. While Matsuyama's canonicity through BentStuff is a complete other conversation, there is the consideration of the fact he's reiterating something that has already been applied as opposed to making it up, not to mention, his novella and the character he created in the FFXIII Ultimania Omega were made canon, and he's in the staff credits for Lightning Returns.
FFXIII Ultimania Omega Interview - even Fang's VA mentions how "To Fang, Vanille is like a younger sister", and relates that to why she relates to Fang since she has a younger sister too, and thus understands the strong conviction Fang has in protecting Vanille.
The FFXIII Game - now I don't think the game itself specifically mentions them being "like sister" (at least in the dialogue, as I've gone through the script of the cutscenes), but the family aspect is something they carry pretty heavily, especially for the group. Vanille's narration talking about family and the regrets of not keeping them as close as you should, Vanille introducing the idea of "On Gran Pulse, everyone is family", Fang and Vanille emphasizing that their village is a close-knit family when arriving to Oerba, Fang assuring Vanille "we have a new family now" and the Ulti Omega doubling down by saying that this line clearly shows how Fang sees the group as her family, and of course, Fang trying to sacrifice herself to fulfill her promise to "protect her family" when the group faces Orphan. Fang's worry and conviction to protect Vanille, and extending this to her expanded family, is shown greatly.
-Zero Promise- Novelization - the novelization is the treasure trove for Fang and Vanille's context as character, their family/sister relationship (along with friendship, of course), and their past. It even features two direct parallels between Lightning and Fang for the sake of showing how Fang views Vanille like a little sister. Even Vanille, in the moment they became L'Cie at their village, tells Fang about how despite being orphans, they were raised together, and were family. There's also the additional context of Fang being like the "woman/adult" while Vanille is like "the child", emphasizing the child-like personality of Vanille by how she always slept next to Fang (also with other kids in the village, before they became L'Cie) from her fears of loneliness, and Fang recounting this of her looking after her being a "crybaby". Naturally, all of this does naturally fit within a context where there's an older sibling and a younger sibling. There usually isn't, but if there are concerns over canonicity—Jun Eishima, the author of this novel (and the FFXIII-2 novels), was hired directly by SE to write her novelizations and to have them published through SE individually, had them featured in the World Previews of both FFXIII and XIII-2, had another short story called -Episode i- featured with the Xbox 360 release of FFXIII, AND was the Story Advisor for the actual FFXIII-2 game. So, it's safe to say she's an authentic additional party to the series as an author, even more than Matsuyama.
-Episode i- Novelization - this short story features the group slightly post-the ending of FFXIII. The story shows the groups conviction for saving Fang and Vanille from the crystal stasis, which sets up this same conviction expressed from all of them (especially Snow and Hope) in FFXIII-2. More importantly, how this conviction is shaped by the familial bond they created with Fang and Vanille, and they remark how this meaning came from Vanille's famous line: "On Gran Pulse, everyone is family".
FFXIII-2 World Preview Book - continuing the trend, Fang and Vanille are described as "like family" once again in the relationship chart. And at this point, we already know HOW they're like family: sisters.
FFXIII-2 Game/Novelization - This first point is really kind of a bonus that is congruent to the comparison of Lightning and Fang, but in FFXIII-2 when Serah meets Fang for the first time, she talks about how Fang reminded her of Lightning. There's also the "Daughters of Etro" moniker they gain through prophecy and the "Legend of Cocoon" Noel speaks on—this is obviously congruent with the concept of them being family/sisters to one another, it just throws in the context of a connection to Etro. Interestingly enough, the ENG localization also recounts the legend through Noel as them being called "the sisters", as well, though this line of dialogue in JPN from Noel is still "the daughters". This meaning is also talked about within the novelizations Fragments Before and Fragments After.
FFXIII: Lightning Returns Game - And of course, Fangs conviction to protect Vanille is STILL the center of her character, to the point she leaves Vanille in order to accomplish this. Lightning will remark this, wondering what made Fang leave since they have "a bond beyond/stronger than family". At this point, it's obvious why family is the foundation of this descriptor, but also how it works as a nice descriptor that comments on the strength of this bond, and how it is stronger than the already strong bond of family bonds.
And the most important thing as demonstrated above? They don't stray from this—they build upon it. There's no deviation, there's no making it false, there's no "this is a lie and it's actually romantic". This IS the characters and their relationship—perhaps the most important difference between them and Clive/Jill or Vaan/Penelo. Within all this, there is no "coded/subtext" of romance, when all things expressed in the game fits within ALL that is provided above and is congruent to one another for the same conclusion: Fang and Vanille are family, are sisters, and very much so care a lot about each other. As you can see, it was given in a multitude of ways throughout the existence of all 3 games and corresponding material relative to them. This especially for Fang—a character who is older, has grown up taking care of a younger character in a family setting, and whose main priority is protecting them and looking after them: this doesn't just fit in the sibling/parental [hogosha] box, it is THE box itself. Are there stories that deviate, that subvert this and make it romantic? Absolutely, I've seen them myself. But, it's a deviation for a reason, it's "different than what it appears as" for a reason—because it's not what is natural for a romantic relationship to develop. There's a reason Fang is consistently compared and paired with Lightning, who is also not only just a sibling to Serah, but also a hogosha [parental figure]. I would make the same argument for Fang too.
One thing I've seen actively in the way is the very typical urge to use our personal interpretations more than the content to understand something. The bar for romanticism is REALLY low in how people perceive things, and that's a wider conversation on how media itself was the influence on this, kind of negatively if you ask me. Glorification of romanticism and sex is a thing. Like really, it's what part of me understands HOW people can see Fang and Vanille as romantic, but also, WHY I know they also should be able to see it as platonic, too. I believe this is an important aspect of talking about perception and media. However, we can't be blinded by it—logically or emotionally. There's not a single thing they've done that can't be understood through the lens of what the material has given you to understand it. Use the lens of the information, not your own personal interpretation if you want to KNOW Fang and Vanille. If you want to ship the hek out of them despite this, fine—I don't care about that specifically, but it would be nice if people recognized and also talked about who the characters actually are outside of their headcanon. That way, when things that are just misconceptions are said, people who know better can say something.
Fang originally being a man? Actually, they both were in a sense. And, not only is it a "coincidence" that the construction of Fang's character is centered on her "wanting to save Vanille", but also that one of the reasons Fang was turned into a female was to AVOID the feeling of romance between Fang and Vanille. Interesting how that little detail is left out by those mentioning this (one could even argue it's slightly homophobic, but that's a whole other convo). Either way, it makes sense as to why the center of Fang's character is her conviction to protect Vanille—it's what she was created for, and we see HOW they chose to execute that: to protect Vanille, her younger sister, her family.
Fang and Vanille being like the Ragnarok legend? It's pretty easy to understand what was/wasn't used with the Lif and Lifthrasir comparison. They're a duo, seemingly the last of the Pulse civilization, and associated with Ragnarok—that's where the similarity ends and how far it was utilized, obviously as based on the above. Something done in media all the time is the utilization of concepts, but not ALL details are 1:1. Happens all the time, and when the storytelling is directly referencing the concept itself (like True Love's Kiss or an Act of Pure Love), it's actually a specific point to SUBVERT from romance and apply it differently.
Vanille talking about never sleeping alone? This is literally linked to the "child-like" aspect of her character—of her fears and sadness of loneliness, and quite frankly the trauma of being orphaned. She's never slept alone, and Vanille recounts this in lieu of herself and ALL the orphans (before they're L'Cie)—it wasn't just Fang in her recollection, but Fang is the one she is closest to and relied on the most. Sleeping alone = fear of loneliness. Fang recounts the same idea in lieu of Vanille's "crybaby" personality—"Vanille would always cry, waking up from a bad dream, holding on to Fang and begging her not to leave her alone. She had always been like that, since they were children."—and naturally, this coincides with Fang's role of taking care of her since they were kids. Surely we're not confused on how that fits with a sibling dynamic more naturally than a romantic one? Then lastly, what is probably even the inspiration of this from the -Zero- Promise novel, is the wholesome/sad scene in the FFXIII game when Vanille, after making a deal about Sazh not invading her sleeping space, sneaks over to sleep next to him, crying, and Sazh allows it, calling her a kid. I mean, it's literally outlined three separate times. Nothing to do with romance, it's about Vanille's character. Unless, you really think Vanille was coming onto Sazh as opposed to dealing with trauma. Knowing the internet, I'm sure that's a ship somewhere, but it ain't it.
Fang lifting up Vanille's skirt to see her brand on her upper thigh? That is, to see if she is close to death, being a Cie'th? The very thing she's been stressing about the entire game up to that point? In this, we can also include the ability of Fang and Vanille hugging or holding each other's hands when they're sacrificing themselves. Basically, physical intimacy.
Boy, this one is a rant for me, and it's hard to be nice about it.
The L'Cie brand is practically almost like a wound, and they're constantly in s state of worry of it getting worse, with it being their ticking time clock towards losing themselves to becoming Cie'th. This is one of Fang's biggest concerns for Vanille along with protecting her.
Now, take their outward personalities that reinforce they're not one to make a big deal about seeing skin, their close-knit familial upbringing + being sisters within this environment—supplemented by the info that supports Fang being the older sister whose main concern is Vanille's safety and turning into a Cie'th + Vanille, who is the younger sister and like a "child", them both being females, and how Fang wordlessly moves Vanille to do this while Vanille has no protest, which can be reminiscent of a mother/child, which "coincidentally" flows with the above, etc. If you seriously can't understand in any way how this interaction fits within the information of the above, platonically, and doesn't showcase anything relative to "this can only happen if they're fucking"—then there's not much else to be said other than, maybe expand your understanding of human interaction and personalities in media (not even just JPN, either)? That's the nicest and most understanding way I can put it. Take in anything, where a sibling dynamic and their capability of interaction isn't just bickering and tussling with one another. Please. It's super easy, and has been done before or even further in so much other content, all across JPN media. There's SO many characters with strong sibling relationships. For SE games, also look at FFXIII itself—Lightning and Hope, Hope and Vanille (the beginning), Sarah and Vanille even share a moment when they meet, Lightning and Serah's interaction at the end of XIII-2, etc. It's everywhere. Yuna and Rikku's hug scene in FFX, Aqua's general intimacy towards Ventus in the KH series, etc. There's not a single thing Fang and Vanille has done that isn't covered under what has been given about their characters, and it's not even like, that much. I mean, Elsa and Anna between Frozen 1 and 2 show more I'd say. "B-but, but, hugs in Japanese media are always—". Nope, go read, watch, anything, please. Now, there can be a certain conversation of expectations between say, a female and male (and even this isn't absolute), but between females? Showing physical intimacy and closeness, not only in real-time of the story but also in key art? Super common. Easy.
There's even a conversation for the sake of how Fang and Vanille specifically are the way they are because of this upbringing, so Fang not making a big deal about even checking Lightning's brand despite being a stranger, Vanille and Serah sharing a moment while being strangers, and even how quickly Vanille physically came to comforting Hope at the beginning of the game—it's more about their personalities and familial/close-knit characterization.
Like, c'mon man. There's "I can see this happening between a couple but also know it can happen without it", and then there's "there's no 'heterosexual' explanation for this". One shows understanding and wisdom, the other, either just uninformed or purposely ignorant of the fact that, yes, they give you an explanation. Over, and over, and over again, in multiple sources, in multiple ways, as shown above. Realize the whole "I would never do that with my sister" is not evidential of what CAN and HAS been done for other sisters or sibling characters. I mean, if you're sincerely not use to seeing all types of physical or descriptive expressions that can happen between this configuration of characterization, I'm not sure how you'd make it through most JPN content to be honest and not tell the difference between what's sexual or platonic, or even American content like Four Brothers, The Outsiders, Frozen, etc., without believing all the siblings (blood related or not) are all having sex with each other. Also, I think it's interesting to note that most physical interactions are initiated by Fang, the older sister, who's main priority is protecting and looking after her younger sister—it certainly matches the same energy you'll see from older sisters in JPN media who show love and comfort to their younger sisters.
Fang would "be everyone's enemy/tear the sky down" just to save Vanille and this is like "Snow's language" towards Serah? I mean, have you seen Supernatural? XD Also like, again, ANY JPN content with an older and younger sibling, whose sole motivation and characterization is protecting their younger sibling? It's called conviction (as we covered, Fang was created specifically to have for Vanille), and considering Serah and her happiness is Lighting's "reason for living and her greatest reward", who Lighting has "the same beloved feeling" for that is the same depth as Snow, is what, "coincidentally", Fang herself uses to motivate Lightning to keep going when she contemplates giving up, who Lightning does turn against Cocoon for in order to save, and who is THE most important component to Lightning's agency in the 3rd game and is the key to her character arc—I'm sure Lightning isn't far off from what Fang is. Again, there's the novella equating them, and also, Serah being reminded of Lightning when she finally meets Fang—this conviction to protect and save your loved ones is something, really, all the characters show. It isn't just Snow, nor is it just Fang. And, Fang just so happens to have this conviction in a way that has been repeatedly linked to "protecting Vanille, her younger sister".
Fang and Vanille having a "bond beyond family"? First, notice how family is still the basis of this bond, the conventional relationship type that is the most versatile AND the top signifier of closeness. So "bond" here isn't relationship type, it's in the same vein of the "reason for existing", "irreplaceable", "unbreakable", "most important thing", etc. descriptors that you get to show how a relationship goes beyond just a type, which all the above is beyond simply being family. The logic of romance being "beyond family" also doesn't make any sense because it literally is it's own sector in family—I mean, the conventional point of a romantic relationship is TO become family. Also for this specific phrase, funny enough, I've only ever seen it used platonically or specifically with no romanticism application, e.g. in Boruto, Sakura tells her daughter that her and Naruto became "more than family". It's like literally the same Kanji phrasing too (家族以上 - kazoku ijou). I haven't even seen it used in a romantic context, but I'm sure it very well could be. It's also funny that, Lightning says this about Fang and Vanille, of how Fang would "never just leave Vanille all alone", but "coincidentally" (this is getting fun, huh), Hope says Sazh had mentioned practically THE SAME THING about why they wanted to believe Lightning wasn't in the crystal, that Lightning wouldn't "just up and leave Serah like that".
Vanille's VA says she hopes the games will show how Fang and Vanille "have a bond more powerful than friendship"—I mean, yeah? They're family, something stronger than friendship. Bond-wise? Absolutely. They have a bond BEYOND even that. See the above, how is this specifically and only romantic? Keep in mind, this is also the same interview where Fang's VA directly says "To Fang, Vanille is like a younger sister", seeing herself in Fang because she has her own younger sister, and relates of the feeling of "protecting small children" that comes with this. Like you know, "coincidentally", like how Vanille as a younger sister is also "childlike" in disposition and a "cute, crybaby" to Fang. Neither this phrase or "bond beyond family" are inherently romantic, and they're very applicable to other multiple relationship types because it's for the sake of describing the strength of a bond.
Fang and Vanille still live with each other at the end of LR? You mean, two people who have lived together since they were children as a close-knit family, have a whole arc involving them separating and reuniting in BOTH games, and are thrust into a new world with the two still being each other's closest family? A world of which is also still very different than the one they came from? You mean two people like THAT would still live together? I am shocked and dismayed. I feel a little sassy here because, c'mon. I'd also like to point out that the idea of "never being apart/leaving each other's side" is congruent with their history, but also is something expressed in the storytelling of Vanille's fear of loneliness, in which even WAY back in the FFXIII novelization Zero Promise, she expresses to Fang “We might be orphans, but we were raised together. We’re family. We can protect everyone together. We’ll be together forever… no matter what happens, we’ll never be apart.” when being turned into L'Cie. So, it's very fitting, but also still within the context that is repeatedly there.
Let the material speak for itself. Which it does. A lot. And you don't have to do much other than just finding it and absorbing it. I feel like, there's STILL more that I could say, but this is the brunt gist of understanding Fang and Vanille.
#oerba yun fang#oerba dia vanille#final fantasy xiii#ffxiii#ffxvi#ffxii zodiac age#kingdom hearts#long post#lightning farron#serah farron#clive rosfield#jill warrick
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Cleuce together possibility in G3?
Now granted I haven't seen all episodes of the new Monster High since I don't have paramount plus but it seems to me Cleo and Deuce have hardly had any interaction at all despite their history together in G1 like I know G3 is a reboot but that always stuck out to me and made me sad watching the new Monster High like I've yet to even see these two even just talk to eachother? um what? So when I saw this snippet on YouTube of Deuce and Cleo dancing together and flirting I got so giddy as a Cleuce shipper 😍 I really hope we see Cleuce together in G3 even if it doesn't work out I love their dynamic together so much and I think with how more balanced their personalities are in G3 they may have a healthier relationship this time around. I'm hoping for G3 Cleuce that Cleo finally stands up to her family and defends her relationship with Deuce instead of letting Nefera and her father come between them and I'm hoping if Deuce gets broken up with by Cleo again over her family he stands up for himself and tells Cleo he deserves better than to be broken up with over what her family thinks of him. I love Cleuce it's one of my favorite ships and I hope if they're together again we see them continue to grow together 💚💙
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Recommended 👍
Kind of a hot mess, if I'm being honest.
I get what this story was TRYING to do... I think... But I've played a lot of games recently with choose-your-own-adventure elements, and all of them feature excessive fourth-wall-breaking to the point where it almost feels like the writer couldn't be bothered to come up with one, coherent story. How few characters can you introduce, how few distinct locations can you create, how vague can a magic-system be... before there's hardly a story to grab onto at all? Don't get me wrong; the art style is beautiful, the music is haunting, the voice acting is talented. There's a LOT worth playing about this game. But the plot just boils down to "something something multiverses"... as if we haven't seen too much of that already! it's not even any fun trying to work out who's lying, because (almost) every dialogue tree ends in a non-answer.
As best I can figure, here's what's really going on in this weird bleeping game. (SPOILERS)
The conflict between the Princess and the Narrator is a red-herring. All the voices in the game are just components of one larger organism: the game window itself. This world used to be a regular story, with well-defined settings, objects, plots, and characters. But by the time you've arrived, these tropes have already been eroded and deconstructed into their most basic rough archetypes and now the world is disintegrating. The damsel, the dragon, the knight, and the dungeon are all bleeding together; all that remains is a vague sense that conflict is what keeps a story moving. And without stakes, even CONFLICT is losing its momentum. The game box is a sentient work of art that can feel itself dying, and so it needs you - an audience - to interact with it, provide it with input/feedback, give it some contrast to push up against, so that the narrative may regain some semblance of logic/meaning and the world can be reborn.
The only way to free a fictional character from the story they were born in, is to fall in love with them. To carry them in your heart, let their quotes become some of yours, and take them with you into the Real World. I should know; I've done this countless times to other characters who spoke to me. What is fanfiction if not an attempt by a Smitten heart, to see a character grow beyond the confines of its original context? There's just one problem; I can't take the Princess with me because I don't exactly LOVE her. She doesn't have enough of a personality to fall in love with. This game aspires to ideas bigger than its own programming; it gropes blindly in the dark trying to emulate more successful properties like "Westworld", "Pathologic" and "Everything Everywhere All At Once". But where it tries to sound deep, it just sounds confused. The glass of the computer screen strains and begins to crack... but the artwork isn't strong enough to break the confines of its own game. Everything turns to mush. The experiment has failed.
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hi!! (mouse anon here)
sorry it's been so long, I'm not as active here cause of my work and COVID!
I hope you've been doing well!! 🥰
oops you're right, I remember you rec'd My Name in one of the previous asks
thank you for that, I loved the show <3333
(Military Prosecuer Doberman is still on my list but I've been in a show slump so I haven't watched it...yet 😭)
I totally understand wanting to watch the lighter shows, I was trying to find shows to watch but I wasn't feeling the darker ones. I think Signal was the darkest show in my opinion. I forget if we talked about it but either it's pretty haunting or I was in my Sensitive™ phase lol
I still need to watch Twenty Five Twenty One, Tomorrow, and Uncanny Encounter (along with like 100s of other kdramas) so I'll update you if when I do!
I've recently watched Life on Mars and The Killer's Shopping List and they're both a mixture of crime/mystery and comedy!
I really enjoyed Life on Mars but I still don't know how I feel about the ending. It's a good ending but there are some pretty heavy implications. Otherwise, it was like a found family crime show and it was great!
I really loved The Killer's Shopping List! It's so short (8 eps) and a lot of the actors stood out to me. They even had a plot line for one the characters that I really enjoyed (if I said it, I'd spoil it haha). There were some plot holes and some things were confusing but I adored the main character and a lot of the side characters.
if you watch any of them, I'd love to know your thoughts! <333
(our interactions are mostly why I use tumblr so thank you!!)
mouse anon pt 2!
I can't believe I forgot to mention A Business Proposal!! It was so good and I agree, the 2nd couple was amazing! I wish they showed more of their relationship but I still like the main couple
I also keep seeing posts about Extraordinary Attorney Woo so I plan on watching it when it's completed! ✌️
hi!! this is the mouse anon!
I just finished Military Prosecuer Doberman and I really liked it! I'm not always a romance person but I wish the the 2 leads got together a lot earlier 😭 I think we deserved that at least 😭
I just started extraordinary attorney woo and I love it!! I love the romance and (most of the) characters in it! it's all about the trust 😭😭 I'm on episode 5 so hopefully I love it through the end :))
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i am. very behind. forgive me T^T im hardly here for more than five minutes a week too, and i only show any sign of life to reply to your messages <3 i hope you've been well and safe. what do you work with?
we never talked abt signal! ive seen it around but it def has some dark vibes and i never got interested in it lmao i think one of the darkest ones i watched was the guest. it felt like a whole horror show. and save me was.... a tough cookie to swallow too. for me to watch this shows i need to be angwy ò.ó trying to feel smth. thankfully its not usual lmao
honestly twnty five twenty one was.... a ride. it took me 4i39242900 weeks to finish it. in fact i only gathered courage to watch the last episode last week lmao i loved it though. it just hits so close to home in so many ways i had to take long pauses in between.
ive just googled life on mars and honestly. im not a big fan of the time travel cases. everytime its mentioned in the plot i automatically turn my interest off 😭😭😭😭😭
i ALMOST started The Killer's Shopping List last week!!!! was trying to feel smth and i hovered over the episode one for a while. now that i know you like it i will come back to it <3333
a business proposal was soooo cute. i was not expecting it to be that cute. the last ep though was. like idk. the ending was every romcom ever written. the whole show was like that but the ending rlly got me laughing on how ridiculously cliche it was. how he gets to korea and off the car and proposes and etc. honestly jfesklfjsiofsjefklssjflsfkslsioefjesoi it was rlly funny. the ending of the second couple too, but idc cause they were cute.
prosecutor doberman was THAT show that i was not expecting to rlly enjoy and once i started i binge watched the whole thing 😑 dont get what it was but it put me thru hours of it without a single thought in my brain. thank u prosecutor doberman.
also attorney woo!!!!!!!!!! im watching it but my netflix is sooooo behind on the actual releases its a nightmare everyweek, having to fend off big spoilers. but yeah i do hope i like it to the end!!!! its so cute i cant stand it
lately ive been watching minamdang cafe (also very behind bc of my netflix), alchemy of the souls and attorney woo. its my go to serotonin for every new ep. also just started big mouth and its.... interesting. there's a brazilian drama that im 99% sure has the same basic plot but im curious to see where it heads.
also going a bit beyond the krama universe, if you have the opportunity to watch severance on apple tv, it's deeeeef worth the hype and time.
OH! and i just saw good detective is going for a round 2? i cant remember the s1 plot for the life of me but i remember watching it through the end. so i guess i have something else to look forward too now as well
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So my partner is amazing and let's me ramble about RE to them whenever I want to, and even sat down to watch Vendetta with me when I bought it, so the other day I was like explaining Leon and Chris' characters (bc my partner knows how much I love them both lmao so of course that's what I was talking about), and we have both come to the conclusion that Leon is a bisexual disaster, and Chris is a homosexual. The running joke is that Leon is also just generally a whore, out there living his best life, and Chris is the kind of gay guy who no one expects to be gay bc of stereotypes and his habit of never really talking about himself, but he also was never really in the closet about it, so he's surprised whenever people are surprised to learn that he's gay lolol but in all seriousness Leon is not only bisexual, but he's the type to fall in love easily despite all of his background and trauma related to betrayal, so his heart is almost continually broken, either bc he's betrayed or he loses whoever it is he's found himself in love with (and sometimes both i.e. Krauser, and Ada at the end of RE2), either through death or just leaving bc he knows he can't stay/can't be with whomever. As for Chris, maybe I'm reading into it wrong, but despite all of the like, romantic connotations they try to put into some of his games (which I don't. Really see? Like there was some in the first game with Jill but I just cannot see them together like that, neither seem interested in one another like that. And of course, Jessica, who I can't stand, and who Chris is supposedly totally oblivious to? Like she thinks he didn't notice her flirting in RE revelations, and Parker is like "is it that, or is he maybe interested in someone else?" And the assumption there is that he means Jill, but again, I don't see it? Even in that game! But that line of Parker's always makes me think "yeah, he's more than just interested in someone else, he's playing for a whole nother team entirely!" lmao. And I haven't seen much for 5 but I'm sure it's there between Chris and Sheva, and then for 6 from what I understand there really is hardly any talk of Chris in regards to any women at all? 8 has nothing, as well, and the DLC for 7 is just another "Chris loses his entire team in horrific fashion yet again" side plot, so nothing there either), he never seems interested. He's always focused on the task at hand, not letting emotions get in his way, and like, some could argue that that's why he doesn't show interest or why Capcom doesn't create more romantic lore around him, but if they really wanted to Make Sure he was straight and Make Sure everyone playing these games knew that, I imagine there would be some one line little hints in the games of him talking about how he can't let himself get distracted, or in his line of work there are no happy endings or what have you, but. There's none of that. Bc he isn't forcing himself not to be interested, he isn't purposefully focusing on saving the day so he doesn't have to get hurt knowing he can never have whichever high potential for a dope ass protag female character who's constantly sacrificing herself to save him bc what better purpose could they serve, right Capcom?, he's just. There, doing his job and trying to save whoever he can, not getting distracted in anyway whatsoever by any of the women in his life, romantically at least. He still cares way too much, but it never comes off as romantic to me in pretty much any way. Also the note he leaves in his STARS locker in RE2remake, Claire being like "this doesn't sound like Chris at all!" Is funny to me bc like, I don't really remember so correct me if I'm wrong, but she doesn't elaborate on WHY that note doesn't sound like Chris lmao is it bc he's respectful to women at all times and doesn't ever objectify them, probably hates when other people do? Or is it bc he would never be interested in women in this way ANYWAYS, the man is so gay, he must have left this note so that Claire would know something is Up, bc her brother is Such a homosexual.
Anyways sorry, I just wanted to ramble/get your opinion on this. Over-analysing RE is actually really fun lmao
haha not gonna lie, I opened your ask in the car on the grocery store parking lot and tried to read it on my phone, and gave up squinting at the small screen halfway through :'D now that I'm back at my laptop though, lol, all good :'D
first of all I'm happy you have someone to ramble to even though they aren't into the thing themselves! :D I regularly rant about RE fandom things to my brother haha and he listens patiently although he isn't in the fandom at all, he's only played the games and that's it. but he still listens to my shippy rambles lol.
as for your thoughts? makes sense to me tbh. I definitely headcanon Leon as a bisexual disaster most of the time, because it does seem fitting. maybe it's partly because I think he's absolutely breathtakingly stunning and it'd be a shame to deny anyone that, so, naturally he wouldn't care about such trivial things as gender, pfth, love is love.
also Leon falling in love easily? absolutely. too damn easily. c'mon this is a man who gets attached to anyone who shows him even the tiniest amount of basic kindness in the matter of minutes. he canonically forms attachments with Claire, Ada, Krauser, Helena, Buddy and JD (JD 😭)... whoever else am I forgetting? but this is the guy who meets someone and would die for them five seconds later. so. it tracks.
and you know what, I can 100% see Chris being only into men. because like. I don't see the romance there either when he's interacting with the women in his life? okay, sure, I could imagine something there between him and Jill if pressed seeing the way he so single-mindedly wants to save her and then holds her in the scene after they get that thing off her chest. maybe. but even there it doesn't really feel super romantic to me, personally.
in the first game with Jill there's not... a lot of romance I don't think? sure she falls asleep against his shoulder in the evac helicopter but i mean, i've fallen asleep against a friend like that? not an indication of romance? they're clearly important to each other! i am not trying to diminish their importance to one another at all! they'd die for each other and they'd do anything it takes to protect each other and i do think their relationship is compelling but... i don't really see anything inherently romantic in it.
and Jessica, yeah, Chris is 100% oblivious to her advances. it is implied in the game that he's into Jill instead but other than that there's again zero actual romantic interaction between Chris and Jill. I was actually talking about this with my brother, who said the same, like there were so many chances in Revelations to put something romantic in there between Chris and Jill but there just. isn't? anything? except for Parker's comment. which is why it felt so damn out of place? (and like my brother would've wanted to ship Chris and Jill, he was kinda bummed about this i feel :'D) so interpreting it to mean he's not interested in women at all would actually make more sense lmao.
as for RE5, I've played it twice (with my brother lmao do we see a theme here) and honestly I don't remember anything in the game that would've insinuated anything more than solid partnership between Chris and Sheva?? if someone who's more familiar with the game wants to correct me on this, then please! but at least off the bat I can not remember anything so I think they actually didn't try to even hint at romance for them?
and in RE6 Chris is way too focused on killing "Ada" to have any thoughts about anything else :'D so no. no mentions in there regarding him and any women. at all. not even hints of Jill which is so incredibly weird (and stupid tbh) bc she was made to be so important to him in RE5 and then doesn't even get a mention in RE6? (/shakes fist damn you capcom! the characters exist outside the games they're in!)
I think that's pretty much the main difference between Chris and Leon tbh. Chris sees the job at hand, and he knows it'll help, he knows it'll save people and it'll make the world safer and he's so single-mindedly focused on the job that he sees nothing else. while Leon sees people, for the better or for worse, and he is willing to take detours if it helps even one person in the meantime. like in RE6, Leon willingly ignores the task at hand to go help just about anyone. Chris doesn't want to pause even when pressed bc he has an end goal in mind.
and bear in mind, I am not trying to say this somehow makes Leon better or Chris better or anything. they're both doing this to help. they both have their heart in the right place. they both care. but they're just so different! their personalities, and their way of dealing with things is different! I feel Chris is really target oriented and wants to get the job done. while Leon's easily distracted from it, because of all the damn feelings :'D
but yeah. i love them both, and i think it's really damn fascinating how they're both the good guys, the heroes of the franchise, but they both take to things so differently.
i don't know if any of this makes sense, I think i rambled too :'D but hey-o, it was fun lmao.
and hey no need to apologize at all!! always feel free to shoot me a message if you wanna chat!
#re answers#anonymous#ask and i shall answer#chris redfield#leon s kennedy#also i know#this is all headcanoning and my subjective opinion#so feel free to disagree#on anything :3#and everything lmao :'D#long post
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bottom!mickey nonnie here, i had some more thoughts in response to your reply, if you don't mind? :) i can see where the trust aspect might come into play for mickey re: bottoming and i understand your thought process. the only thing that makes me doubt that is how quickly that trust must have been established between him and ian if that is the case. they haven't been fucking for that long when kash walks in on them (which is the first instance we actually know mickey bottoms). i suppose that there could have been a lot of off-screen developments and interactions, but it's too quick imo. their relationship in season one seems more puppy-love to me rather than a deep bond (which i see as starting to form in season two). the way i see it, the only level of trust that needs to be established is "i know you won't tell anyone because you're also closeted and you won't treat me like a bitch because if you do, i'll beat you tf up and just never fuck you again" which is pretty shallow and something mickey could probably have reached with other guys, too. idk, i just don't see their relationship in season one as deep enough for mickey to start trusting ian with things he's worried or insecure about. it makes more sense to me that he lets ian fuck him because it's not that big a deal, rather than because he's already let ian past his walls. we know that ian is all in by that point, but i just don't think mickey is. he likes ian, is drawn to him (probably against his better judgement), but that's as far as it goes, as i see him. since there are such few scenes between them in season one we have no choice but to make our own interpretations, and those are bound to differ. i've just never seen mickey indicate that he thinks bottoming = being a bitch, or even that it's something he worries about. the only thing to support that would be his attitude to prison, but like i said before, i don't think mickey views sex in prison the same as he views sex on the outside. he probably views everything in prison differently. on the outside, with guys who share his secret? i don't think it's too much of a stretch that he would just do what he wants. the danger is the same either way. just my interpretation of him, of course :)
Hiya, Bottom!Mickey Nonnie No. 1!
I don't mind one little bit; in fact, I'm delighted! Apart from enjoying the fun discussion, it's always gratifying to hear back from anons: you usually never actually know if your answer has reached them.
First off, you're damned right it's quick! I personally don't subscribe to the idea that Mickey knew that Ian was gay or had a crush on him preceding their 1x07 tryst (nothing wrong with that notion, btw, it just doesn't appeal to me), so when they suddenly start tearing off each other's clothes that's very sudden. I tend to assume there might have a tiny bit of vague interest prior to this, the proximity and tussling triggers mutual attraction, they both spring boners, and yeah, off they go? You're also quite right in (implicitly) pointing out that we don't know that they had penetrative sex at that time – maybe they moved up from mutual handjobs or just plain grinding to something more a few trysts later. Either way, you make a good point about the danger of sex outside of lock-up would be the same regardless of whether Mickey bottoms or not. I'd never really thought about that before, so thank you for pointing that out!
However, it's probable that the reason I haven't thought very much about it is because when I speak of Mickey's easy trust for Ian I don't primarily mean him trusting Ian not to reveal his secrets to anyone else, but trust him to know Mickey in a way others are not allowed – and here we disagree and that is fine. :) If you see Mickey as unbothered by being into bottoming, you can certainly find support for that in the narrative. We do have the famous ”liking what I like”-line, which absolutely can be taken at face value! The fact that I tend to interpret it as (partly) Mickey being deliberately unapologetic because he feels a bit uneasy about his preferences and is somewhat defensive about Ian's brief allusions to common prejudices around bottoming, has more to do with my assumption that – given Mickey's circumstances – this is something that Mickey's likely to feel insecure about. He's internalized his father's homophobia to some degree; it just seems reasonable to me that he'd have internalized Terry's strong conviction that Milkoviches don't bottom too. (He certainly seems ready to embody that when he attacks Ian's army fuck buddy in season 3, citing the need to kick him straight because he's the one taking it up the ass. However, that could also totally performative or seen as him making a twisted kind of in-joke, so it's hardly conclusive.) Furthermore, I feel that it's not unreasonable to question Mickey's sincerity in regards to the line mentioned above, since we do have instances of him acting seemingly geuninely dismissive even when we know he probably cares quite a bit. I'm thinking primarily about his reaction to Ian's sex strike in season 11; I just don't buy he was unbothered by that, but there's nothing in the way he expresses his lack of concern that suggests it's insincere. This doesn't mean that I think my reading of the line is the correct one, though, just that it's a possible reading given what else we know of Mickey.
But of course, this really is just my assumptions and interpretations. It's very possible to infer from his actions onscreen that Mickey is totally unconcerned about bottoming, and always has been. After all, Mickey is in many ways a genuinely confident person, and I think this extends to his sex life. (I just think there's insecurity and concern, too... Basically, I think Mickey's relationship with his own sexuality and preferences is complicated, a paradoxical tangle of confidence and shame. I find this complexity is fascinating, and if we're being honest that's probably one of the reasons why I'm not so eager to let go of the notion of it.)
That said, though, and regardless of whether or not bottomingrequires any particular trust on Mickey's part, I think we dohave some concrete evidence of Mickey letting Ian past his walls already in 1x07. Not the sex – because we don't know anything about that – but the return of the gun after. That look on Mickey's face just then? That's vulnerability. He knows that by giving the weapon back when he doesn't have to, he shows hint of a softness he can ill afford people to know he possesses at this point. It's walls dropped, if only for a moment, and I just don't see him allowing that with many – if any – other people. While it isvery quick and while there's no telling whyor how, I firmly believe that there is an immediate trust between them that goes beyond just sex. It might not be logical, but I think it's there, and that this easy, natural understanding is a huge part of what has them coming back to each other again and again in spite of the odds being stacked overwhelmingly against them. Like you, though, I don't see this as a deep bond or anything, not this early. Ian falls in love quickly and easily; for Mickey is a much slower process, because he fights even the possibility of it tooth and claw.
And ah, I'm aware that in my first response to you I promised to elaborate on my thoughts on Mickey's stint in Mexico in my reply to Bottom!Mickey Nonnie No. 2, but I ended up cutting that because it got absurdly long in comparision to my notes on what they were actuallyasking about, and that didn't seem fair or relevant to them. However, I now have a third (and a fourth... apparently this is a subject dear to your hearts, sweet followers) Bottom!Mickey Nonnie in my inbox, so if this is something you're interested in, despair not! We'll get there!
Thank you so much for getting in touch, both with your first ask and with this follow-up. I've enjoyed reading your thoughts, and developing my own in response to them, immensely! I highly value being able to civilly disagree and argue viewpoints without either side feeling the need to convince the other, so this has been a real treat. <3
#for a person who isn't very interested in smut at all#i sure have a lot of thoughts on this#mickey milkovich#gallavich#meta#asks#my stuff
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I wasn't planning on talking about this, but ever since the trailer and the summery of episode 1 came out certain people have gone into overdrive. Pretty much all the same stuff they always say. "Hope should just dump Landon, he doesn't deserve her love and devotion" 😑😑😑 and "They made Hopes whole story just be about a boy. Why does Landon/Handon get so much screen time over all the other characters?" Etc etc.
Okay look Landon is the only one who's actaully earned Hopes love and devotion. Everyone else just acts as if they're entitled to it. With how they always treat her(very unpopular opinion I know but it's true).
Hopes story has never been all about Landon. It's always been about saving everyone else, doing what's best for everyone. Even if it means sacrificing herself and what she wants/what makes her happy. Season 3 was the first season she actively put herself and what she wants first(and even then she still was doing what was best for everyone else at times). And a part of that just so happens to be Landon because she loves him and he's the one who makes her the most happy. And in 3x05 when Hope was in the therapy box was a whole give a way. That she's just tried and done always putting herself last and sacrificing what she loves(ie Landon and what else she just doesn't want to sacrifice anymore) just to save everyone else. And I honestly don't blame her for some of the things she did in s3, not excusing what she did not at all. But at the same time I don't blame her.
Now what I'm about to say might upset some people but there's two reason why Landon/Handon gets so much screen time is bc 1. Landon is a lead and at the very core of legacies is Handons story, so of course they'll be getting more screen time. And I think 3x16 was trying to drive that home of a lot of people. As well as about a 100 other that have been shown/said throughout the show.
2. The other reason why other characters don't get much screen time or even a storyline is bc more often than not is bc the writers/showrunners just don't really care all that much for those characters. One example of that is Rafael. And as much as I love his character, you can just tell the feeling wasn't the same for them. Bc he was gone for must of s2 and when he was around they made him be all about his feelings for Hope. Same thing goes for the twins. You can just tell that they didn't really want to have them in the show in first place(even Juile herself said she didn't want the twins. But things change I guess). Because they've haven't been doing anything with their characters, they've done more with Cleo's character than they have with the twins. I think the most I've seen them do with the twins was the whole dark Josie storyline. The rest of the time their storylines have been about love interests. I'm not sure if I forgot any of their other storylines bc once s3 hit I just kind of stopped paying attention to their storylines(not bc I don't like their characters but bc their stories just kind of just keep going around in circles and I really don't want to watch the same thing over and over again). And idk if in season 4 they're going to start giving the twins and other characters more screen time/ more storylines but I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't.
Wow sorry that got long haha. But any thoughts on this?
It’s just the same old thing with the antis, can they really not think of anything else to say? But yeah, everything you said. What is it Landon has to do to earn Hope’s love and devotion? You’re so right, he treats Hope far better than any of the other characters do, unpopular opinion or not, that’s the truth. He’s not done anything that’s made him undeserving of her love. And for them to even say that after he went his whole life without being loved is horrible. And I’m so tired of them saying Hope’s storyline revolves around a boy (especially when all most of them want is for her storyline to revolve around Josie), because exactly! They must not be paying attention to the show if they don’t see that Hope’s storyline has always been about her being the hero and saving everyone. Which is why them saying that Landon is all Hope cares about and all she thinks about contradicts her actions throughout the show when she has continuously been there for everyone. And yep, to the point where she has sacrificed her own happiness with Landon for the sake of everyone else. And yes, I loved Hope’s development in s3 because she was finally putting herself and her happiness first. And that didn’t mean that she no longer cared about her friends because, like you said, she was still trying to be there for them and do what was best for them too. And exactly, Landon is the one who makes Hope happy, and I felt so bad for her in the therapy box in 3x05. That really did say it all, you could definitely tell that she’s so tired and just wants to be happy for once. And same with in 3x10, when she said “we can never just be happy,” it never seems to end for her. And I don’t blame her for what she did in s3 either. And you’ve also gotta consider that everyone had pushed her into a position where she was most desperate and left with no other options. Plus she also didn’t even think Lizzie or Josie would be in danger in 3x08, and she believed they could make it until the dark magic started to infect them and then she apologized. But what she did still ultimately ended up saving Landon from the prison world, otherwise they may never have found another way if they hadn’t created a rift.
And very true about screen time for Handon. People still refuse to believe that Landon is the male lead despite Aria’s name appearing right after Danielle’s in the credits and Julie literally saying that they casted Aria to be the leading man of Legacies when he auditioned for TO. Both Hope and Landon are the leads of the show, and yep, their story is the main story, so obviously it’s gonna get more focus. And yes, that’s been made clear throughout the show.
It does seem like the writers don’t care as much about the other characters. And I love Raf too, don’t get me started on the way they treated him. And it’s so weird because it seemed like they had bigger plans for him at the beginning. It took them a while to find Peyton, if I remember right. And I thought he and Landon were gonna be the brothers of the show, it seemed like they were setting up a love triangle of sorts with them and Hope (not that I wanted that), but then, like you said, he was hardly in s2. It’s like they scrapped any plans they had for him and didn’t know what to do with him after s1, even though there was so much potential.
And yeah, same with the twins. But idk if Julie said she didn’t want the twins on the show? I just thought having them on the show, at least as mains, wasn’t always part of the plan. They had always talked about a “Hope spinoff,” no mention of the twins. Julie had said Hope and the twins wouldn’t be friends because of the age gap. And from 5x12 of TO, I’d guess they hadn’t planned on them being mains for Legacies at that point either, otherwise they wouldn’t have made the age gap so obvious. And they had no interactions between Hope and the twins either, yet they made sure to establish a relationship between Hope and Landon in that episode. So I do feel like Handon was always part of the plan and they most likely decided to have the twins be main characters later on. And that really does show because they don’t seem to know what to do with them anymore either. True, they definitely did more with Cleo last season than the twins, and I do feel like the dark Josie storyline was the last real storyline they had. And I agree, their storylines now mostly have to do with love interests, and they do feel repetitive or just like they’re not going anywhere. And people will complain about Handon being repetitive, but look at what they do with the other characters, it’s far worse. Despite there being some repetition with Handon, like with them being separated and being put through horrible things all the time, there’s still development and progression. But with the rest of the characters, I feel like there’s hardly any progression at all. I feel like they’ve even gone backwards with some of the characters as well, especially last season. I actually thought the writing for the twins, and all the characters, was pretty good in s1. I liked all the characters and was interested in their storylines, but now, especially after s3, I’m just not interested anymore. S3 really changed my mind about some of the characters tbh, mostly because of the way they treated Landon and Hope. So idk if they’re gonna give the other characters more screen time or better storylines in s4 either. But honestly, because some of the characters have kinda been ruined for me, I’m not even sure if I’d care much if they did give them more of a storyline. I’m really just watching for Hope and Landon at this point, ngl. But hopefully, for everyone else’s sake, they can do more for the other characters next season that other fans will enjoy.
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L'Inferno (1911) Movie Review!
As promised, we're gonna be celebrating this Spooky Season with a Devilman Crybaby headcanon! In order to fully express my HC, I will be reviewing icons of horror cinema and literature that helped contribute to many of the themes and ideas that are prevalent in Go Nagai's original manga. So, without further ado, let us descend into the Blind World. Put all fear and cowardice aside. I will be your guide through this eternal place, where you shall hear the shrieks and see the tormented spirits who all bewail the second death.
And how appropriate? Because our first film is the 1911 adaptation of The Inferno by Dante Alighieri. I suppose it's only right to begin this saga of horror films with one of the first horror films ever made. Okay, "first horror film" is actually debatable, so keep in mind that I said "ONE of the first." In any case, it remains one of the most important landmarks in horror cinema.
"Stopped, in the middle of what we call life,
I looked up and saw no sky, but rather a dense cage of leaf and tree and twig,
For I was lost."
The film opens as the iconic poem does. Dante Alighieri is a middle-aged man who finds himself lost in a dark, gloomy forest. This opening of the story always had a way of making me feel somewhat lonely and isolated. In my interpretation, I always saw this forest as being symbolic of how Dante felt after the death of Beatrice. Allow me to explain...
For those who don't know, Dante met a young girl named Beatrice when they were both nine years old. The young boy immediately fell in love with her, even though they hardly interacted. Despite their lives continuing in separate directions, Beatrice had always and forever held a special place in Dante's heart. When he received word that she had died, Dante was absolutely devastated. He felt that she deserved to be immortalized in what he intended to be his magnum opus; The Divine Comedy.
I believe that this opening to the Inferno is actually Dante going to a journey to find Beatrice so that he could say goodbye to her. Along the way, he got lost, both literally and spiritually. That, in my opinion, is what this forest symbolizes. In many ways, this opening kind of reminds of the opening to Silent Hill 2, just from how dismal it is.
Having said all that, I think the film does a very poor job of conveying those emotions. Sadly, I just don't feel any of the despair that was present in the original poem. He just wanders around for a few seconds, then steps out into a clearing. But don't worry! As soon as Dante steps into the clearing, the film IMMEDIATELY gets better. Upon entering this clearing, Dante finds himself at the base of, what I believe to be, Mount Purgatory. I can only assume that's where he is, because the gates of Hell are at its base, and Dante seems to suggest the gates of heaven are at its summit, just like Purgatory. Unfortunately, his path is blocked by three ravenous beasts: a leopard, a lion, and a she-wolf, all representing different Earthly sins. He runs back the way he came, before being rescued by a strange apparition. It's here that the film begins to remind us all of why the original poem is regarded as a self-insert fanfic...
Upon introducing himself to the apparition, Dante learns that it is the actually the ghost of Virgil, author of the Aeneid. The significance of Virgil being in the story is that he was Dante's favorite poet of all time, and Dante always longed to meet and interact with him. It's literally a self-insert fanfic of Dante meeting and interacting with all of his inspirations. It's honestly a mystery to me why I love The Inferno so much, because it's everything I hate! It's a Catholic's fanfic about why he sees himself and his friends as morally superior and why everyone he ever disagreed with is going to Hell. Somehow, in spite of all that, I still love it.
So why did Virgil even decide to help Dante in the first place? Well, remember when I talked about Beatrice dying? It turns out, she descended from Heaven into Hell to ask him for help, because she knew how important he was to Dante. She tasked Virgil with being Dante's guide, after seeing that he has gone astray.
This is where the film's innovation starts to take shape. Beatrice has often been drawn as having a halo around her head. The problem is, how do you show that in a film made in 1911? The effect was strikingly realized with, what I assume to be, spinning rods covered in reflective material. I can only guess this is how it was done, but it appears right to me, because that's how a similar effect was created for the lightsabers in the original Star Wars. It looks like the rods were placed behind the actress, so that the rig couldn't be seen, making it appear as if the light was emanating from her head. This scene also displays an early appearance of wire work on film. In those days, that shit wasn't easy. It was even harder to hide the effect, which this film does fairly well.
So, Virgil explains to Dante that he must take him on a pilgrimage through the three different stages of the afterlife. To be perfectly honest, I never understood why. Maybe I'm just an idiot with little to no reading comprehension. It's also a factor that I haven't read parts II and III of the Divine Comedy, so maybe it's elaborated better in there. From what I gathered, since Dante is going on a journey to find the literal Stairway to Heaven (Led Zeppelin intensifies) Virgil needs to take him to Hell and Purgatory, so he can face his sins and better appreciate Paradise. And thus, Virgil's pilgrimage to lead Dante through the Afterlife begins!
"Through me, the way to the City of Woe
Through me, the way to everlasting pain
Through me, the way among the people lost
Divine Power made me
Eternal I endure
Abandon Hope, all ye who enter here"
That is the inscription above the Gates of Hell. It is here, that Dante is already planning on turning back. Virgil literally tells him to stop being a pussy, and I was satisfied. Once they enter the gates, it becomes apparent to the viewer, if it hasn't already, that this isn't just an adaptation of Dante's work. This film is actually a cinematic translation of the ICONIC illustrations by Gustave Dore that were created in the middle of the 19th century. So much care and detail was put into recreating his AMAZING artwork, that many consider to be his magnum opus. This film was basically the Zack Snyder's Watchmen of its day!
Those familiar with the story will recognize this iconic scene that is being recreated onscreen. Dante and Virgil have come to the shores of Acharon, where the souls of the damned board Charon's vessel to be taken before Judge Minos, who lives in Limbo.
Speaking of Limbo, that is the first spiral of Hell Dante visits. This is where good people who weren't Christians come to face eternity. Their punishment is meant to be the denial of Paradise, but if you ask me, it doesn't seem so bad. Apparently Dante felt the same way, because this is where he meets his other great inspirations, such as Homer and Ovid! The poets all enjoy their visit together before Virgil must take Dante on his way. This is honestly the part that makes me cringe the most. Nothing reeks of self-insert fanfic more than meeting your idols and being greatly respected by all them. This is exactly why I abandoned my Silent Hill fanfic.
Anyway, Minos's throne lies at the lower boarder of Limbo. The king himself appears as a giant naked bearded man with a snake tail. The tail is used to determine the punishment of sinners by wrapping around Minos's own neck multiple times. However many times the tail coils determines which spiral the sinner is sent to.
And here we get to my favorite scene in the whole film: Lust! This spiral perfectly displays the true innovation of special effects. In this spiral, sinners are punished by being caught in a tumultuous whirlwind. The wind symbolizes the tumultuous feelings that arise between lustful lovers. It's one of Dore's best illustrations, and it blows my mind that the filmmakers were able to recreate it so well!
Our two pilgrims move onward to the Spiral of Gluttony, where we come across Cerberus. He guards this spiral, but Virgil subdues him by throwing a clump of dirt in his face (still more respectful than Lore Olympus). Honestly, Gluttony is nothing to write home about. It's just a raining landscape with people laying in the mud. Still, I have to give credit for the meticulous recreation of Dore's art!
Down in Greed, who else do we find guarding this spiral, other than Plutus?
SIDE NOTE: I've read a very strange "translation" of his dialogue. The original line reads, "Pape Satan, Pape Satan, allepe!" Strangely, no one seems to agree on what exactly this means, so most translations are different. Particularly, in the case of Douglas Neff, he translates "Pape" to "Papa," which is strange because "Pape" means "Pope" in Itialian. Then, he changes "allepe" to "you are my king." Let's also not forget that Plutus was also occasionally used as an epithet for Hades and/or Pluto. This means Douglas Neff literally wrote Hades to say, "Daddy Satan, I worship you" (still more respectful than Lore Olympus)!
In the Spiral of Greed, the sinners are forced push heavy sacks of gold around for eternity. Once again, this scene is nothing special, but still an admirable recreation of the illustrations that inspired it.
The next scene, however, shows off more of the innovative talent that makes this film so amazing! Virgil and Dante move on to the Spiral of Anger, where the sinners are punished by being submerged in the black sludge of the River Styx. The only way across is by boat. This is where Phlegyas comes in. The two poets stand by a giant tower which they use to signal for passage to the City of Dis. Along the way, the boat is stopped by Dante's political and intellectual rival, Philipo Argenti. It's here that one realizes just how petty Dante truly was. "Oh, I disagree with you politically. Therefore, you deserve to drown in sludge for all eternity!" He sounds like people I used to know. Hell, he sounds like me in high school!
All while this is going on, we see an amazing special effect of a double exposure of Dis in the background. It's an amazing miniature of the city's outer wall, optically printed to take up the entire top half of the screen.
Finally, they make it to the other side of the river, where we actually get a cameo by Hades' and Persephone's children! No, not Zagareus, Makaria, and Melinoe. None of those people were Hades' and Persephone's children. I'm actually referring to the Erinyes (also known as, the Furies). They block Dante's entrance to the city's gates, so Virgil calls upon the aid of an Archangel to rid them of the Furies. It is here that Dante asserts the superiority of Christianity over the Hellenistic faith (still more respectful than Lore Olympus).
Within the City of Dis, Hell begins to look more like how we always imagined, with fire and brimstone. In the Spiral of Heresy, sinners are stuffed into eternally burning ovens embedded in the ground.
Beyond that is the only omitted sequence from the poem. In the original Divine Comedy, the Spiral of Violence is originally guarded by the Minotaur! Beyond that are sinners, stewed in a boiling river of blood (The Phlegethon). On the banks, we see a heard of Centaurs practicing their archery on them. These are the individuals who were violent towards other people. In order to cross the river of blood, Dante and Virgil must ride on the back of one of the centaurs. You know, having heard of centaurs' notorious reputation for being horrible rapists, it makes me concerned for the sake of our Pilgrims. Maybe they didn't include this in the film because they couldn't figure out how to make a centaur?
On the other side of the Phlegethon, Violence continues into the suicide forest (*Logan Paul reference here*). Here is where sinners, who were violent against themselves, are punished. Once judged to this spiral, they grow into trees. The symbolism being that trees are a symbol of life, of which these sinners have deprived themselves. I'm surprised this scene isn't more controversial. After all, seeing as how seriously mental health has been taken recently, it's fucking awful to tell someone they're going to Hell for committing suicide! As a peice of horrific imagery, I love this scene, but knowing that Dante actually believed this makes me despise it.
In addition to being a horrifying concept, this scene also includes one of the first instances of bloodshed in a horror film. Virgil explains to Dante that he can speak with the sinners if he breaks one of their branches. When he does, blood sprays out of the tree like a drinking fountain!
After a brief conversation with the sinners, Dante moves on to the final section of violence, where people were violent against God. Here the sinners are punished in a desert that perpetually rains fire.
Now, not every special effect in this film is good. Because when Dante rides down to the eighth spiral on Geryon's back, it is such a stiff, unnatural, badly puppeteered marrianet that they couldn't even keep stable for the shot!
"There is a place in Hell called the Malebolge..."
Now, we get to my favorite part of the whole poem: The Spiral of Fraud. Here the deceivers are punished in a myriad of ways, depending on how they lied to others.
In the first Spiral of the Malebolge, those who pander towards others are mercilessly whipped for all eternity. This marks the first appearance of the classic image of the winged demons that we all know and love.
In the second spiral, the flattererers bathe in a stagnant pond of their own feces and vomit. This symbolizes the value of the words that they spew at other people. I think this might be where the expression, "You're full of shit," came from. Think about it; you say that to people whom you think are lying to you, and this is in the Spiral of Fraud.
Incidentally, this punishment was referenced in a Turkish horror film called Baskin -- a film about a small group of off-duty police officers who crash their car and wake up in Hell. In that film, the main characters realize they're in Hell when they find demon raping someone, while shoving her face in a bowl of her own face and vomit. Baskin is not a part of this HC, so I'll have to talk about it later. For now, I'll just say it's one of the best horror films I've ever seen!
In the third spiral, those who joined the Catholic Church for their own personal gain are buried head first, with their feet sticking out in the air.
In the fourth spiral, fortune tellers have their heads turned backwards. This prevents them from looking forward, symbolizing their attempts to see into the future.
In the fifth spiral, the sinners are repeatedly dipped in boiling tar. This scene is especially interesting because it shows that the demons we see aren't actually monsters. They're just creatures doing their jobs, punishing sinners. In fact one of the demons named Malecoda assigns a group of demons to help escort Dante and Virgil through the rest of the Malebolge. That, unfortunately, doesn't work out, however, because the demons are distracted by a sinner trying to escape, so Dante and Virgil move on alone. What's also unfortunate, is that other demons, who assume that Virgil and Dante are also sinners trying to escape, chase them into the next spiral. Luckily, each demon is confined to their own spiral, so they can't keep chasing them.
In the sixth spiral, the hypocrites are forced to wear robes made of solid gold. They also find Caiaphas nailed to the ground. As someone who has Jesus Christ Superstar on his top three list of favorite albums, I was happy to see Caiaphas get referenced.
In the seventh spiral, the thieves are bound by snakes, whose venom causes them to burn to ashes. One thief in particular gets attacked by a giant lizard that makes him into a lizardman (someone tell Alex Jones).
In the eighth spiral, the false advisors are eternally engulfed in flames.
In the ninth spiral, the sowers of discord are viciously mutilated. My favorite part about this scene is that it's one of the first instances of gore in a horror movie. The prophet Muhammad has been cloven from his belly to his throat with his guts spilling out all over the place. That's right! Muhammad is depicted in the Inferno. Not only that, but Gustave Dore drew him. Damn. Dante has no chill. Hey, the founder of the most homophobic religion in the world rots in eternal Hell? I'm not complaining! This kinda makes up for the portrayal of suicide victims.
In the tenth spiral, the falsifiers are punished with enternal leprosy.
At last, we make it to the Spiral of Treachery, at the center of the earth. Here, the traitors are frozen within the Lake Cocytus.
"Lo! Dis Himself!
Emperor of the Kingdom of Woe"
Finally, at the climax of this horrific epic, we see Satan, and it's not what you're expecting! He is in the very center of the lake, frozen up to his waist in ice, and forced to eat the three greatest traitors of all. His body is covered in course fur, and he has three heads and six wings. Satan's appearance in this story is disarming and almost pathetic in a way. You'd imagine Satan to be this fearsome king, but he's just shown to be suffering like everyone else. It's kind of sad, really.
The film ends with Dante and Virgil climbing down Satan's leg fur and ending up at the base of Mount Purgatory.
L'Inferno is one of the first true masterpieces of horror! It's hard to believe that this movie is almost 110 years old! Just think of how it would have been to see it in theaters for the first time when it was new. We owe it to this film for proving the language of Cinema could be used to tell the most epic stories possibly conceived.
You can watch the film for yourself here:https://youtu.be/cMUPbPOGPdM
youtube
Now, you're probably thinking, "What the Sam Fuck does any of this have to do with Devilman Crybaby?" Well, for starters, in Go Nagai's original manga, the character Asuka Ryo implies that Dante's Divine Comedy might have been based on a true story. This is futher validated when the demon Xenon appears and bears a strong resemblance to Dante's description of Satan. But beyond the surface-level details, let's discuss some of the deeper implications of what Hell actually is. Within this headcanon, the Afterlife is an entirely separate dimension, occupying the same space as our Earth, but invisible to our eyes. There is a way, however, to see and explore this separate dimension. You see, when different dimensions intersect at certain angles, they sometimes leave gaps through which we can come through and cross over to the other dimension. It was through one of these gaps that Virgil was able to find Dante. These angles and gaps between dimensions will be further explored in a later film.
#dante's inferno#dante's divine comedy#l'inferno#devilman crybaby#devilman crybaby headcanon#Youtube
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2) ten is playful, doyoung and kun is kinda serious. maybe doyoung and kun clicked, maybe not. but seeing how ten constantly bicker with kun is like seeing big bro with lil bro with 5 years age gap. and doyoung with kun is just like that old friend reunited, awkward everything. mind you, they haven't got the chance to spend time with each other that much because of different units.
3)now there's a huge gap between korea and china line, shit just got real awkward. it's kinda upsetting when sm doesn't allow any interactions between those units until the ever fearless Taeyong decided to butt in and fuck the rules by greeting china line. if not, nothing happens. idk if there's gonna be a yearbook with 21 members, sm is shitty at planning and throwing shit for NCT to figure it out by themselves.
4)i just hope there are interactions between those units allowed to not make it awkward. it's true what those idols said, not all groups are knit tight as family, some are just co-workers, nothing more than that. that shit kinda stung me a little, knowing that NCT is a big family, they could be close but are purposely divided for more money. it would be so awkward for people to ask if there are members that they are close to outside their units, like what's the 3 new members answers...?
totally and I also really wish that they would release a yearbook with the 21 members since last year doyoung said that it was going to be a yearly thing and like.... we’re all waiting for it I think. But it definitely sucks that we don’t really get to see any interactions between the units, most especially any interactions between wayv and 127/dream like ☹️ except for that one time with taeyong’s live we haven’t seen them even hardly acknowledging each other and it just makes me really miss when they were all together last year for the black on black stuff
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What are the issues you have with La Belle et la Bete? I haven't seen that movie yet, but apart of me wants to be prepared on what to expect just in case. You know what I mean? Also, I agree with you on what you said about the BATB fan base in general. I'm so relieve we have a fan base that's calm for the most part, & actually express the reasons why we love BATB so much for its life lessons & the lessons we took from BATB.
Before i respond, i want to clarify to my followers, I'm talking about the 2014 Belle et la Bete, not the 1946 Cocteau film of the same name.The movie is visually interesting and whimsical, the characters are the disappointing part. My biggest gripe is that the title characters really hardly interact, let alone develop a relationship. They have, like, three conversations, none of which are very friendly. I daresay the Beast doesn't even bother to get to know Beauty in the slightest, he just kind of lusts after her a bit (and creepily watches her sleep...). Right before she leaves they kinda sorta make a truce with each other, but that's not enough to make me believe they've fallen in love. It would be like Disney!Beast and Belle parting ways immediately after he saves her from the wolves. It's a good START to a relationship but there's still a long way to go.Another problem i have is that the Beast/prince never really changes. This wouldn't be an issue if he was like his fairy tale counterpart, already good and kind and just misunderstood. But no??? They went closer to the Disney route and made it his curse into penance for his own wrongdoing. But then they forgot about that whole...redemption arc thing. He begins the story as a dick, and by the end he is not shown to have really grown or changed.The most infuriating part of that is, they actually came SO CLOSE to giving him a chance to prove he had changed and learned to reject violence when he has the villain in his clutches and Beauty begs him not to prove himself a monster. But then external forces prevent him from even having to make a choice! Last but not least. I've seen some interpret the Beast's past and Beauty's visions of his first wife to mean that she is the reincarnation of the princess. Well. That's fine, i guess, but i really hate reincarnation plot devices in romance. Mostly because writers tend to use it as a lazy shortcut to actually developing the romance. Just because these characters were a couple in a previous life, that doesn't necessarily give me, the viewer, any reason to want them together now.For all I'm harping on it, I'd say it's still worth a watch, at least for the sheer spectacle. It does have a rather charming Beauty character and an otherworldly fairy-tale atmosphere. But if you want to see more sympathy develop between the title characters, I'd recommend the Cocteau version or even the Czech version, Panna a Netvor.
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