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snippit-crickit · 11 months

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lizard-cardassians saga continues ZIYAAAL

im angy at how the writers handled her, i wish she hung out with the ds9 teens more and did teen/adolescent stuff ⁽ᵃˡˢᵒ ʷʰᵃᵗ ʷᵃˢ ʷᶦᵗʰ ᵗʰᵉ ᶻᶦʸᵃˡ/ᵍᵃʳᵃᵏ ʷʰᵃᵗ. ᶦ ᵐᵉᵃⁿ ᶦ ᶜᵃⁿ ˢᵉᵉ ʰᵉʳ ʰᵃᵛᶦⁿᵍ ᵃⁿ ᵃᵈᵒˡᵉˢᶜᵉⁿᵗ ᶜʳᵘˢʰ ᵒⁿ ʰᶦᵐ ᵇᵘᵗ ᵃᵇˢᵒˡᵘᵗᵉˡʸ ⁿᵒᵗ ᵇᵉᶦⁿᵍ ʳᵉᶜᶦᵖʳᵒᶜᵃᵗᵉᵈ ᶦⁿ ᵃⁿʸ ʷᵃʸ⁾ also my headcanons about tailed cardassians

they could also use it for fighting

+ quick color key of garaks shop, id love for it to have more colors

#ds9 #lizard #cardassians #gul dukat #elim garak #tora ziyal #ziyal #garak #dukat #kira nerys #characted design #deep space nine #deep space 9 #star trek #headcanons

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the-data-files · 2 months

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one of my favorite scenes from DS9 is when Dukat pops a vessel just because Ziyal has a little crush on Garak lmao

#ds9 #star trek #gul dukat #elim garak #tora ziyal #my art #sketches #yeah yeah Dukat is my favorite from the whole cast but that is mainly because he's hilarious. get a grip dude lol

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theauthoressdefiant · 20 days

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every day i think about how we got garak x ziyal which feels so weird and random (and basically exists to avoid garashir) when we could have fucking got KIRA and GARAK COPARENTING like we could have had it alllllllll

#star trek #ds9 #deep space 9 #garak #kira #ziyal #garashir

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writergeekrhw · 10 months

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Please forgive me if you have answered this before, but can you shed any light on the Garak/Ziyal relationship? I feel like there was a great friendship or found family dynamic that was overshadowed by the awkward romance angle.

Do you know what the intent was there? What's your take on it as a writer? Was there any influence from outside the writers room? It's almost a fandom truism that it was part of the effort to 'de-queer' Garak, but I can't say I've seen a source on that.

Love your work, and thanks.

The end game of Ziyal/Garak relationship took place after I left the show at the end of Season 5, so I can't speak to all of it. I always thought of their relationship as a one-sided, unrequited one. Ziyal had a crush on Garak and he played to it to manipulate her (seeing her as a possible card to use against Dukat), though he did grow fond of her.

I'm not aware of any outside influence how their relationship played out. I'm not 100% sure if it's fair to qualify it as an attempt to "de-queer" Garak. In my mind, he was always queer, and that's how I wrote him, but it could never be too overt, given the times and opposition by people way above me in the CoC. We didn't so much de-queer him as never fully write him as queer, though I think Andy played to it as much as he could.

I will say I've never been fully satisfied with how Ziyal's story played out. I think her arc could have been much better if we'd had more time with her, but we came up with her character relatively late in the game, so we really didn't have the bandwidth to make her "part of the family" in the way we needed to. Plus having to change the actresses a couple of times due to availability issues didn't help.

In retrospect, I wish we'd put her in a relationship with Jake, but you know, if wishes were horses and all that.

#ask me anything #tv writing #ask me stuff #ds9 #star trek ds9 #star trek #deep space nine #star trek deep space nine #deep space 9 #star trek deep space 9 #garak #ziyal #regrets i've had a few

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lonelymoonrambles · 4 months

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I just finished season 4 of ds9 and here are my thoughts as a first time viewer:

- starting the season off strong with some Garashir flirting in the medbay 😏

- love to see Worf, but where's Alexander?

- and where the hell is KEIKO

- cool can't wait to ugly cry every time I think about 'The Visitor'

- omg did Julian and miles break up? :(

- they got back together, thanks Keiko :)

- let Jadzia bang her ex-wife!!! LEAVE HER ALONE! GET A JOB!

- Our Man Bashir is just Julian and Garak on a date, having a normal fun good time as boyfriends

- Quark is really out here just trying to get Odo's attention huh

- I am once again asking: if Dukat evil, why sexy!!!?!

- Kira's line to Dukat : "why is that when you smile I wanna leave the room" is so real

- KEIKO'S BACK

- Keiko really said, "you don't need to break up with Julian just cause I'm back, Miles 🙄" our poly matchmaking queen

- Fashion Spotlight: Whatever the hell Quark's been wearing all season 🌈

- Jake. Please. Date someone your own age, I am begging you.

- Benjamin. Stop letting older alien women near your teenage son!

- crazy mirror Julian can still get it, but a little less cause of the haircut

- Ah Weyoun, I've heard so much about you and idk I'm not sold yet pal 🧐

- the Jem'hadar are still serving 💅 they're so sassy and for what

- ommmggg kira joining the polycule as a surrogate / Keiko's girlfriend

- so Quark's just openly pining for Odo now huh

- Miles suggesting Julian move in...DO IT! KEIKO WILL LET YOU! COMPLETE THE POLYCULE!

Ds9 is still holding the title of my fave star trek franchise (sorry tos I love you forever) let's go season 5!

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cuterefaction · 7 months

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#Trektober Day 29, "Crew as Family". I mean, every Trek crew is a found family, but I have a special place in my heart for the utter garbage fire presented by this potential romcom scenario.

I'm assuming Dukat reels violently between racist horror and quiet delight that he gets an excuse to flirt with Kira and Sisko more often.

#star trek #trek #trektober2023 #ds9 #deep space nine #sisko #jake #ziyal #garak #kira #they just sit quietly and are creative together on dates it's super wholesome #garak and kira have a quiet alliance on the subject of ziyal's happiness but no knives have been drawn yet

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star-trek-fandom-confessions · 6 months

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Confession #71

"Not trying to sound like a Garashir conspiracy theorist, but why do pairings like Garak/Ziyal and Bashir/Ezri seem like they were only created to discourage slash shipping?"

#forever resenting how production shoehorned andy robinson into dialing the gay down with garak jtbc #star-trek-fandom-confessions #star trek #garashir #garak x ziyal #bashir x ezri #deep space nine #deep space 9 #ds9

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the-data-files · 2 months

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he's a hater idc

#star trek #ds9 #Tora Ziyal #Elim Garak #Gul Dukat

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mccoypussyindulgence · 2 years

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is this anything

#star trek #ds9 #dukat #kira #ziyal #weyoun #sisko #damar #garak

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purplespacekitty · 15 days

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Ramblings on Tora Ziyal

I think it’s well beyond a shame that they killed off Ziyal because I really would have liked to see her Cardassian-Bajoran identity more fleshed out and have her navigate the world beyond her father’s influence. She was starting to do that a bit with Kira and Garak (though I strongly feel that Garak should have been more of a mentor figure than a love interest) and it would have been really cool to see her get to hang out with Jake and Nog and just be a kid for once. It feels way too weird the way they began her character as this traumatized little girl who knew nothing but the brief time of her life she spent with her mother on Bajor and the horrors of the Breen mines and then magically turned her into this saccharine sweet, mostly well-adjusted young woman who loves her tyrant father despite his crimes (and in many ways, is seemingly unaware of them???????). Where was the therapy? Where was the rehabilitation? Where was the jaded child we saw in “Indiscretion”? What if Ziyal had been allowed to channel her anger and pain into learning about Bajor and Cardassia, into healing herself? Her dad basically plucked her out of the Breen mines after years of giving less than a Cardassian vole's asshole about her and then it turns out he originally planned to kill her when he found her? After she prayed for years that he'd come and save her? I'd be pissed.

But also, I wish they'd explored more of why she didn't appear to be all that pissed. We have almost no other context for Ziyal's childhood, certainly not any of what it was like before Dukat sent her and Naprem away. Was it simply exhaustion and desperation that led her to the conclusion that she'd rather die than not be with him once he'd found her? Was there a guise Dukat put up to portray himself as a kind father and mask the tyrant underneath before he sent Naprem and Ziyal away? Or did she even get to see Dukat at all in her early childhood? Did she simply assume he would be a loving father? Is that the image Ziyal clung to for comfort for all those years? Did she cling so tightly she could do little else but believe it?

It feels icky to kind of reduce her existence to Dukat Drama™ the way the show ultimately did with her death. Why didn’t we get to see her experiencing disillusionment about Dukat, who never actually changed for the better when she was still alive and trying to get him to stop being so horrible? Why didn’t we get any Rugal-level anger from her, the hushed-up child of a Bajoran comfort woman and the genocidal former Prefect of Bajor? Because, obviously, Dukat never actually took his fatherhood to her seriously. She tried to imagine him as someone he was not and he predictably chose to inflate his own ego by encouraging her. She wasn't much more to him than a device to garner some twisted idea of sympathy for himself. Ziyal needed more of a chance to break away from relying on Dukat for unconditional love. Because his love, as we know, was not unconditional. In fact, I hesitate to even call it love at all, given how ready he was to manipulate Ziyal, how ready he was to get rid of her. She had unconditional love from Kira, who immediately went to bat for her before she’d even met her when she found out what Dukat planned to do to his own daughter. And I totally believe Garak’s love for Ziyal could have grown into something unconditional, but they ruined it with some weird, out-of-nowhere romance with an uncomfortable age gap and then had her killed off like some tragic, helpless maiden.

DS9 was sort of the only place Ziyal could experience any sort of semblance of real safety in her life, especially considering both Bajoran and Cardassian attitudes towards biracial children. It would have been interesting to explore an arc with her making DS9 her home as a place that is conducive to the cohabitation of many different species and cultures while also wrestling with isolation and ostracization from those who share in the two most pervasively impactful facets of her identity. Maybe the writers wanted to focus on portraying her girlhood and favored it over exploring the complexities of her Cardassian-Bajoran heritage. But honestly, they failed at both. She never got to have a girlhood and she ultimately became more of a plot device than a fully-fledged character. This franchise started off with its most interesting and beloved main character being both Vulcan and human. I know Ziyal is someone else entirely, but they totally could have done more with her than they did.

I would love, love, LOVE to see her engage with different aspects of both Bajoran and Cardassian culture. I wonder if she would develop any kind of spirituality regarding the Prophets. Since Bajorans are widely a spiritual people, it's possible Naprem shared some of her spiritual practices with her daughter. If she did, does Ziyal observe those practices to feel closer to her mother? Does she seek Kira's help in learning more about Bajoran spirituality? Do they connect over the struggles their faith has gotten them through? Would delving deeper into Bajoran spirituality open a gateway to acceptance from other Bajorans? Or would it make them turn their backs on her even more? How does her Cardassian-Bajoran heritage impact the way she interacts with her own spirituality and beliefs? As far as Cardassian culture goes, Garak certainly has an eye for art and I could see her connecting with Professor Natima Lang, Hogue and Rekelen and learning about Cardassia's resistance movements.

Also, multiple Bajoran and Cardassian drinks, confections and meals are shown throughout the series and especially with respect to its main character, DS9 frequently places food in an important cultural, community-building role. As someone whose strongest connection to their own heritage comes from food, I would have loved to see Ziyal engage with both Bajoran and Cardassian culture through food.

Obviously, we were robbed of heaps and heaps of space station shenanigans:

Nog sharing what he learns from starfleet academy with Ziyal, Ziyal trying tube grubs and actually liking them.

Ziyal illustrating Jake’s stories into comic books or murals and the two of them creating stuff together and maybe some nerdy pop culture history discussions on the side. I feel like Jake, Nog and Ziyal would totally have weekly movie nights.

Odo looking out for her, giving her advice about handling bullies, the two of them bonding over being generally considered the odd ones out and Ziyal making paintings to add to his quarters.

Kira giving her lots of hugs, teaching her to fight, protecting her from bigots and helping her embrace her Bajoran background, teaching her Bajoran culture. Ziyal stealing clothes from Kira's closet occasionally ("You hardly ever wear anything other than your uniform, anyway! And they fit, see?"). Ziyal sneakily tagging along on Kira and Dax's trips to the holosuites, eventually convincing them to just invite her to them regularly, anyway. She knows how to use her cuteness as a force for good, but more importantly, she knows how to use it as a force for capers and hijinks.

Garak making her clothes, teaching her the art of cunning deceit and helping her embrace her Cardassian background, teaching her Cardassian culture. More hangouts in the holosuites basking on steaming rocks. And the two of them giggling in tasteful mirth at Bashir because he finds Cardassian literature boring.

Gossiping with Bashir and Jadzia, learning to treat wounds and carry a bat’leth, never growing tired of Dax’s many tales of woe, romance and adventure.

Sisko teaching her how to cook and inviting her to play baseball with him and Jake.

Quark occasionally letting her have a drink on the house because she can be more devious than him if she wants to be (“Listen, kid, if you’ll get rid of all this root beer for me, you can have as many free glasses as you want”).

Leeta and Rom being the cool aunt and uncle who buy her all the jumja sticks she wants.

Babysitting Molly and Kirayoshi and learning about plants, science and Earth history from Keiko. I wish Keiko had gotten more screen time - in general, but also of her in her element, studying plants and playing music. It's criminal that we never see Keiko play her clarinet in DS9, so I definitely would love to see the two of them playing music together if Ziyal felt so inclined.

Leaving O’Brien in the dust at darts for reasons he simply cannot fathom.

Listening to Klingon opera with Worf over glasses of prune juice.

Becoming an accidental stowaway on Kasidy’s freighter one day and Kasidy taking her with on missions to Bajor. Kasidy, Keiko and Ziyal hanging out together is a trio dynamic that never happened and definitely should have.

Talking stuff out with Ezri, the two of them commiserating over their respective identity crises.

Dressing up for nights at Vic’s.

Learning about Klingon music from that Klingon chef (I believe his name is Kaga) on the Promenade.

Punching each successive version of Weyoun in the fucking face (maybe even Weyoun 6, accidentally or intentionally, doesn't matter, it would just be funny).

Rebel strategies with Damar (I think he’d come around if he didn’t have it out for her and got over Cardassian bureaucracy), Kira and Garak.

Helping around the house whenever she and Garak visit Mila, long talks with Mila about her Obsidian Order days.

Weekly dinners with everybody.

I want to see her making friends and being supported by all the loving, caring people around her who love her (collectively and individually) more than her actual-piece-of-shit dad. I want her to grapple with the fact that certain people hate the mere existence of her enough to want her dead but also decide to go “hell with it” and fucking live for herself. She deserves to be more than the tragedy that made Dukat finally snap and descend into pure insanity. She deserves to laugh and cry and stomp her feet and dance and shout and sing and love and play and paint to her heart’s content. She deserves to be angry. She deserves to have a childhood, an adolescence, an adulthood and an elderhood. She deserves to live. And maybe to be the perpetrator of a few political assassinations as a treat.

So………....................suffice to say, I have a LOT of thoughts about Ziyal. I love her and I wish the show runners had loved her more, too.

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