sorry but the weirdos that posted under that sakusa are the biggest ‘pick me’s i’ve ever seen,, did you lack attention in school? 🥺 did nobody laugh at your jokes in the classroom you have to do it here now? 🥺 did somebody you like never find you funny? 🥺

Hello! I found your blog via you amazingly summarizing all that's going on with the spn drama. Due to my schedules, rl stuff, some of the arcs that didn't vibe with me, my availability to find a place to watch...the rollercoaster I was used to with this fandom was more me binging it in a weekend to going months to over a year without watching it. I still haven't watched the last season(but with a fandom this big it's pretty impossible not be spoiled so I more or less know what happened) BUT oh great one I ask of thee for more information if you have it...other than being busy and whatnot, I'm not really one to keep up with the actors as well. So could you also maybe do a summary of all the stans? I'im seeing terms I haven't seen before. Who is Kelios(sp?)? Hellions?? probably messed it up but like...I guess what are the name of each legion? Who do they have alliance towards? What was their desires? Que paso?!?!?!?

Hi there! 'Some of the arcs that didn't vibe with me' me emotionally quitting Supernatural in Season 7 after they killed Castiel 😂 Anyway I totally get it, I went through the same culture shock mid-last year when I got back into SPN and tried to find where fandom was at! There's really a LOT of lore and content after 15 years though so I'll just do the broad brushstrokes based on my impressions and personal stereotypes PLEASE remember this is oversimplifying groups and individuals to tendencies and I'm very biased! Also important that there are sub-factions within sub-factions - again, I'm simplifying here!

I've also linked to the 'Super-wiki' in terms of some definitions because the Super-wiki has pages for them where the Fandom-wiki does not. Great introduction actually - only in the Supernatural fandom. There are two Supernatural wikis. One, through curation and twitter activity, supports BiBro/Wincest factions and does not support Destiel users. One is more neutral or Destiel-friendly (I don't know that the Fandom wiki has a personality/social media presence per se). You cannot make this up. There is a factional war... within use of fandom wikis.

Destiel faction

People who primarily ship Dean/Cas, love Castiel and (often, although not always) Jack, and the 'found family' of Supernatural as well as the brothers, and like the post s3 seasons too. Hated 15.19 and 15.20 for killing Dean and ignoring the other characters/narrative arc of the show. Nicknamed 'Destihellers' by the Wincest faction as a derogatory term, 'reclaimed' and shortened as 'Hellers', a nickname they use affectionately to describe each other. See more info on nicknames here.

Sometimes also ship ‘Cockles’ (the ship between Misha Collins and Jensen Ackles) although generally speaking they're more respectful of the wives of the actors than J2 shippers, who are notoriously responsible for... a vast series of insane-fan misdemeanours. Historically most were also good at keeping RPF to themselves and not harassing celebrities with it directly, although recently, particularly with younger twitter fans, that has not been the case.

Sub-factions:

The ‘Desticule’ or ‘Destiel tumblr’ - general grouping of Destiel-shipping tumblr users around 20-30 years old, usually LGBT+, most who came back to the show post-15.18 after leaving it for various reasons including getting sick of the queerbaiting. Funniest bitches alive etc. and responsible for the best text posts you’ve ever seen. Can also start stupid discourse and in-group drama when they’re bored.

'POLOL' - People of Lots of Letters, a discord group (of tumblr and twitter users) that ran on the assumption Andrew Dabb was playing a hugely intricate game of 3D chess to do with gnostic symbolism among other things, and would make Destiel canon. Have since had their own factional sub-wars and fallen apart a bit. Some of their meta was and is good and interesting! Some of it was wildly off the mark. Now generally insist that Dabb/the writers were all pushing for Destiel canon and the network is entirely to blame.

Twitter fans (TikTok edition) - younger fans around 18 and younger who (FOR REASONS BEYOND ME) started watching the show around 2018-2020. Definition of 'stans'. Tend to be very loud and aggressive on twitter when Events Happen, which like. I do get, because they've grown up in a completely different media environment and this kind of Dinosaur Politicking around LGBT+ issues is beyond them. Fancam central. Anyway stream #CASTIEL for clear skin!

Twitter fans (AO3 edition) - older fans around 30+ who kept going with the show but either don't have a large tumblr presence or just prefer twitter. A lot of fic writers, GISH-ers, and BNFs in this group. Some of them are very cool and reasonable in their opinions, some of them act like the younger stans. Some of them too accepting of what happened wrt 15.19-20 in my opinion, because, in contrast to the younger twitter stans, they grew up expecting Destiel to NEVER be canon or respected. 'Can't believe we got this far' etc.

Multiship faction

Multishippers or shippers of things not as large as the two main behemoths . Sub-factions based on shipping, e.g. Megstiel and Sastiel. I don't think these groups are very large though, and seem to have very little influence in the Discourse.

Wincest faction

LARGE overlap with the 'BiBro' faction and their opinions, which I'll get to. Ship Sam and Dean romantically. Often pretend to be BiBros on places like twitter and reddit in order for outside groups to take their opinions more seriously. 'Wincesties' etc. are derogatory nicknames given by the Destiel faction.

Sub-factions:

Multiship fans - ship Sam and Dean but respect Castiel/the 'found family'. Politically overlap with the faction of multishippers, I think. I don't have a lot of insight on this group of people honestly, but I know they exist.

Bronlies - the typical BiBro and 'Wincest' shippers most people think of, twitter user 'Kelios' is one of the would-be ringleaders of this faction - typically tend to be older white midwestern women. Historically have been pretty nasty on twitter (leading to Robert Berens, writer who made Destiel canon, occasionally subtweeting Kelios). Also tend to ship 'J2' - and take it very seriously as a legitimate thing that is really real. This is called 'tinhatting'.

BiBro faction

People who think the show should JUST be about the brothers, love Supernatural s1-3 and everything after it should have been just like Supernatural s1-3. Hate Castiel, Jack, and the 'found family'. Largely loved 15.20. Go to literally any comments section on any Supernatural article and You Will Find Them complaining about how the show should just be about the Brothers. Tend to be older, straighter, and more conservative/Republican (and male) fans. (I am aware that the definition of 'BiBro' used to refer to people who just liked the brothers but there's no definitional difference now in the discourse.) The Wincest and BiBro faction are generally much more wealthy than the Destiel faction (they being younger and more diverse/queer/left-leaning in general) and would be the biggest revenue generators at conventions etc.

Sub-factions:

Reddit bros - literally anyone who visits r/supernatural. Well, that's not fair - there are people who post reasonable opinions on there, but it's pretty rare and they get downvoted a lot. Like to talk about 'toxic Destiel fans' 'ruining the show' and how Dean is a straight man who is straight and could never possibly be gay. Might even think the confession was platonic despite all evidence to the contrary. I'm Not Homophobic I Have Gay Friends, But No Gays on MY Show!

Old Guard - group of older fans who overlap strongly with the Wincest faction, but might not necessarily ship Wincest.

GA faction

'General Audience' - These are the group of audience members that aren't 'online' so to speak; most watch the show on TV as a Casual Viewing Experience (are therefore also sometimes referred to as 'casuals'. Mostly their opinions tend towards BiBros, but they have a vast range of baffling views thanks to being Not Online and usually Not caring about Supernatural that much or thinking that deeply about it.

Sub-factions:

People who simply watch Supernatural on TV and then don't think about it very much after that.

I said they weren't 'online' but that's not entirely true; I'd probably classify people on Supernatural Facebook Groups as GA, along with friends of friends who post statuses about how 15.20 was a neat finale that wrapped up the series.

Conclusion

Supernatural is famously the show that appeals to both Republicans and Democrats, literally All Orientations, so there's a WIDE range of factions. However, most warring online boils down to Destiel vs. Wincest/BiBro - the war that started in Season 4 and has simply never ended. In terms of the 'actors' and their stans, in general, Wincest/BiBro fans love Jared, like Jensen, and dislike Misha. Destiel fans love Misha, like Jensen, and dislike Jared. Of course as with everything, there are variations and this is just a generalisation. But that's the summary of it, from my perspective!

This didn't even get into Sam girls, Dean girls and Cas girls. God. Anyway.

Hope that answered your question, anon!

seeing the twitter stans vs tiktok stans debate makes me even more glad to be on tumblr.. i have both of the other platforms but tumblr is the only platform where i don’t see things that make me genuinely uncomfortable. tiktok is the worst i would say, but i think mainly because that platform has all the youngest people? 

of course it’s pointless to generalise mainly because there is just so many of us so you’ll never hit the nail on the head by grouping everyone together, but i always understand where someone is coming from when they criticise stans and stan culture. this might be a hard pill to swallow for some people but i’m gonna say my bit because i never stop talking.

it does get really gross and really toxic. it does get so hateful that a lot of people can’t handle it. i feel like there is a side of stan culture where people become too comfortable and too entitled. they believe they have the right to know private information, they believe they should dictate who the cc’s can and can’t interact with (don’t even get me started when it comes to male cc’s interacting with literally any female ever), they believe that just because they show support in whatever way, that the cc somehow owes something to them.

we need to stop attacking cc’s for every little mistake - because they are people and they are not perfect. cancelling someone, backing them into a corner and making them speak up about anything and everything isn’t fair.

we need to stop expecting anything from cc’s - there’s thousands, if not millions, of people expecting interactions. stop expecting your cc is going to notice you and love you and worship you for sending donos and buying merch. you should support them because of their content, not because you wish to date them. it’s time to grow up. this includes not attacking every single female out there that interacts with your favourite male cc’s. that’s just gross and childish.

here’s the thing - you don’t have to like everything! if dream interacts with addison rae, that doesn’t mean you have to like addison rae. that also doesn't mean that you have to go on her content and leave her hateful comments. 

if you don’t like it - just say nothing? it’s not that hard, just ignore it and move past it. just because these people get thousands of comments doesn’t mean they might not see yours. i never understood that, why do people constantly leave comments as if the creators won’t see them? they might not see every single one, but they might see yours, and it might make them feel awful. does it make you feel better, knowing you left a hateful comment that would affect that person negatively? it really doesn’t add up to me at all. 

don’t send hate. don’t send death threats. just be kind. 

generalising you based on your stan pfp:

dream: I don’t really know how you can do this?? but y’all do. you tend to be pretty fucking stubborn won’t lie, and react very emotionally. but you’re also pretty fun to talk to because even with strangers you’re high energy (for a bit anyway)

george: HARDEST SKIN OUT THERE. you guys get so much hate on all platforms for liking a cc LMAO so you lot are pretty thick skinned and intimidating. you’re either really involved with this fandom and neck deep in what’s happening, or on the shallow end and don’t know shit. no inbetween.

sapnap: really not much of you guys...crouching sapnap skin though? a lot. for irl sapnap pfp I’d say you guys tend to be pretty laid back, you don’t really get involved in shit and have a small group that kinda share posts with eachother?? but if it’s crouching sapnap you’re annoying. you’re really annoying. but kinda cute <3

wilbur: scary asf. I mean literially psyco. although you have good taste in clothes and music wether you want to or not. (idk why it’s just a theme) you’re also probably really big on character analysis, which is sometimes just tiring. (you guys also share wayyyy too much with the internet. calm down <33)

tommy: you’re either ironically using him as a pfp or straight up you couldn’t find a better pfp so just clicked the first picture you could find. I mean seriously...y’all fun though. chaotic and wild (I will excuse for the tommy and tubbo sharing pfps, you’re both still chaotic it’s just cuter) I would like to point out that conversations with you guys are really repetitive?? you don’t really carry it on and let it drop real quick. which nothing wrong with that, except there is <3

tubbo: somewhat a gruesome humour for like no reason?? also tend to avoid drama like it’s the plague you guys seriously stay out the way huh. you’re all also really set on explaining to people why they’re wrong, but in a really gentle way?? it’s nice. won’t lie though you seem like someone who complains wayyy too much.

ranboo: CHAOTIC ASF. you spam on your social media alottt..usually a live blogger or just complete mutual spammer. doesn’t mean you guys aren’t some of the best people to hang out with though. chill and chaotic?? wtf’s going on there. gender sold separately...although you guys are pretty shy with one on ones. it’s a weird parallel to the chaotic internet persona

jack manifold: can’t believe some of you are out there...anyway you tend to have very strong opinions and like indirect tweeting/blogging about people?? also incredibly rare to find. so see yourself as fucking higher then everyone else or something it’s funny. you guys are cool tho👍

niki: generally you guys are chilled out, have some of the best taste but can go fucking psyco on people. you know your shit and when you’re in the wrong (which is not a lot) you fucking go at it to prove your point. but then also have some chronic social anxiety?? still chill tho. (fyi you guys do sometimes get clingy and it’s kinda annoying)

I think everyone in our community is rlly lovely 😊 most people are here cause they like the music/community and not cause they want to date bts members irl 🤓 since bts has a lot of fans, it may seem as though there are tons of delulu fans but in reality that is quite a small % of all bts fans. I don’t think generalising + stereotyping ARMY as fanatics/crazy helps much—bts fans are not monolith 💜 this type of stereotyping alienates some normal fans of bts + makes them feel weird for liking bts

I respect your opinion, anon. Don’t know if I can personally say from my own experiences that everyone from the fandom is lovely lol - stan twitter can get pretty nasty sometimes and I’ve seen plenty of immature fans. But I will say that I’ve been an avid believer in the community is what you choose it to be. While there’s plenty of nasty folks out there and folks probably too intense for my liking, I get to choose who I want to associate with. Choose who I want to see. What I see. Choose what parts of the community to be a part of. So being a part of the tumblr writing community is a relatively nice experience for me. But finding this place was not without trial or error. 

Delulu fans are definitely in the small minority. But just because it is, doesn’t mean we shouldn’t discuss it in fear of not wanting to alienate normal fans. I think being able to differentiate between these two groups is key. But it’s unfortunate that main media and, a lot of the time, outsiders can’t differentiate and makes it seem like normal fans all are crazy fanatics.

My first comeback era was Run and BTS music has changed a lot since then. It seems like recently too I only like a few songs from their albums. So I can’t confidently say I’m here for the music. Not saying I’m here cause I want to date Jimin or Jin lmao. But I really enjoy watching their dynamic together and I started watching korean entertainment because of korean variety shows, so BTS Run episodes are right up my alley. So I think while most fans say we should be here for the music, I think there’s a lot of reasons why people’s interests are piqued towards BTS. From indeed their music to their looks, but also their personalities, individual members, joining the bandwagon (lol), their shows, their performances, their dancing skills, etc.

This will be a loooong post. I'm just going to warn you it's anti Cassunzel, the OT3 and Cassandra as a character. I also have some negative to say about Cassandra stans in general and Chris. You've been warned. Please don't read further if you just want to make me think differently about these, because it won't work.

Where do I even begin? I always disliked Cassandra since the beggining because of the subtle ways she acted as Gothel and reminded me of a toxic ex-friend. She always picked on Eugene and even if he always strikes back, as an Eugene fan, I agree that he uses humor as a way to hide pain, as I've personally done before. At the same time, she came across as entitled to protect Rapunzel and get Eugene out of the way. I understand everyone did not trust him because of his criminal past and it makes sense, but Cassandra did not let it slide even in season two. Eugene died for Rapunzel's freedom and suddently this new character we know nothing about is entitled to pick on him every time she could. How could I want to get to know her after that? First impressions matter more than I'd like, so yes. She sabotaged Rapunzel in Challenge of the Brave and I have never forgiven her for that. I've never changed my opinion on her and I felt like I had nobody to talk to about my dislike of her because a big part of the fandom loves her. Then season 3 came in and I began strongly hating Cassandra. She kidnapped and attempted murder multiple times and she did not even think of herself as the villan? Before you start with the "she was manipulated by Zhan Tiri" of course she was. But these were her actions. That she faced no consequences for so I just headcanon she was exiled from Corona anyway. And Rapunzel just not giving up on her. Hey kids, pin after your friends even if they backstabbed you and tried to hurt you and your loved ones! Yay, friendship! I'm not going further, the season 3 main plot was just messy and that I hope we can all agree.

Let's move on to ships and make some people mad we hate their OTP. I ship New Dream and just that from this show. Nothing more, nothing less. Now, I've noticed Cassunzel and the OT3 are quite popular in the fandom. I personally try to scroll past posts about those, but sometimes I don't. I'll tell you my problem with these two ships. First, Cassandra is toxic. There, I said it. At least in my perspective, toxic people are not enheretly bad. The toxic ex-friend I've mentioned is not a bad person, but she has to work with her issues. Same with Cassandra. She is not ready for any kind of relationship, platonic or romantic before she works on herself. Isn't that what is ending is about? Anyway, both Rapunzel and Eugene sister-zoned her so yeah. To make it clear, I hate how Gothel is important. She should have been forgotten. But I think calling them sisters could have been done in a way that doesn't imply Rapunzel is Gothel's daughter. Because she's not. But Rapunzel loves Cassandra as a sister and that's canon. Eugene also Cassandra as a sister and that's canon. Cassandra may or may not have a crush on Rapunzel, but it's canon is doesn't go anywhere, as Varian's crush on Cassandra or Lance's crush on Adira. Which explains why they are not an OT3. Or why there's no Cassunzel. They are found family, not lovers and that's canon. Anyway, I'll just stick with the ship which it's tenth aniversary of being canon is coming up :)

Now, Cassandra fans. I hate generalising a group of people, but many of those that I came across were incredibly offended and rude when you said their favourite isn't the second coming of Christ. Insulting people is not the way to go? It makes you seem childish, and I say that as a young teen. I'm the young one here and I understand calling people with different opinions that yours "cunts" is not ok in any way, shape or form. Good. Now, I hate when some of them- again some, not all- don't realize Cassandra is the villan??? And ignore that the show -**Chris**- push Eugene back for Cassandra and when he gets the tinniest bit of something, they wish it was Cassandra's (cue the dark prince reveal, the new position as the captain of the guards). Some of them also hate Varian because everyone inserts him in everything and only thinks about him?? Have you seen yourself? You. Do. The. Same. With. Cassandra. And you tell me Varian's a minor character and a plot device? Then, guess what, your favourite is a plot device. Moving on.

The worst thing some of them do is, in fact, the claim that you are sexist and homophobic if you don't worship Cassandra? No. I may take this too personally, but as someone who has a 90% homophobic family I've tried all my short life to have an open mind and spread understanding. And you tell me all my eforts are in vain because I don't like Cassandra? Are you kidding? I don't hate her because of that, I've stated my reasons. Using that insult feels cheap and almost hateful even. Ugh. As a female, I love strong girls and women, it's not a reason to hate Cassandra.

The last subject I want to rant about is Chris. @zhantiri made a great post on that subject and I agree completely check out her blog! I want to add that I understand why Chris is biased towards Cassandra: he created her, it makes sense. But what I wish happened was it wasn't painfully obvious he favored her over everyone else. Movie fans aka me came for Eugene and Rapunzel and their adventures and instead we got Rapunzel and Cassandra's while Eugene was there. He wasn't as important because reasons? By the third season, it felt as Cassandra was the protagonist and Rapunzel and Eugene were not even close in importance? That's not how things should have been handled. Also, you can't say you give Rapunzel a female best friend and pat yourself on the back for that then have said friend betray her. This show should have been about the mothers not the fathers but since Chris is a father, that's what we got. Rapunzel and Cassandra's friendship needed better writing, more exactly female writers. Chris knew he caused the divide between Varian and Cassandra fans.....basically Cassandra fans and the rest of the fandom. You should bring your fandom together, not divide it? Cassandra's arc and redemption was so bad and they focused on it so much, they forgot about the other characters. Lance deserved so much more but he was the comic relief and in the end adopted the girls and that's it? They done nothing with Eugene's heritage expect develop a relationship with his dad and that's it?And you tell me we have no hope for Eugene's mother? Not even Varian's? But now Cassandra's biological father has a story? She already has a father and her biological father was not even mentioned one time! Ariana had so little screen time but you throught about Cassandra's father? So now Cassandra is the main character since everything is about her nowadays? Ok. I understand people want more content, but first: it's probably not going to happen because that idea with Varian was refused. He's a series-only character. Guess what, same with Cassandra! I hear Chris doesn't work for Disney anymore and I doubt he would go back. Also people of the crew moved on to new projects so I wonder who's gonna do it now?

most LGBT/non-white fans aren't happy with how there was still no LGBT representation canonically and how they reduced poe to stereotypical latino tropes, made finn's arc the same as tfa basically (and sidelined him in for adam driver which is just racism lmao) and how underused and underwritten a lot of the characters were/how they mischracterized rey/how they REALLY mischaracterized luke and like the overall pacing was p bad, so white ppl liked it and dumbass kylo stans did too but that it

first off, why u anon, i’m not mean to people who message me generally and i won’t send followers after you because that’s a shitty thing to do, now i have to make a big long response publicly instead of using the messenger app, sorry everyone, long post incoming:I WANT LGBT representation to be canon in star wars but i know that they’re not gonna do it and it’s frustrating but not unexpected. Big budget genre FILMS (tv is different) are so lacking in LGBT content, it’s frustrating that off the top of my head the only example i can think of where it’s not sub-textualised via aliens is Sulu in the Star Trek reboot universe.

but let’s look honestly at how the people who run star wars and the actors responded to questions about LGBT content in interviews: there is spoilers blackout aversion, and actors explicitly supporting fans for their interpretations of characters but at no point was there a promise to show that sort of representation.

Disney has shown before that if they’re going to include LGBT content in their big films they do address it directly, much was made of Lefou in beauty and the beast and there was backlash because the actual content was so minor and still fairly subtextual. 

With the Last Jedi no promises were maid so not getting LGBT content is frustrating for me and others but I can’t fault the film for it only the creators and a criticism of studios and directors and writers does not mean the movie itself is flawed for that specific reason. At least in my view. It’s blaming an absence of a feature that was never promised. would it be better with that feature? YES! but i also think it would have been better for various writing changes but the writing choices that were made are what we have to assess it on.

As to Poe being stereotypically Latino, I don’t live in a country with enough of a latino population to have much insight on that but I will say that I don’t understand this argument. 

my PERSONAL view of Poe in this film is that last time we didn’t get any depth to his character outside of friendly heroic pilot, this time we are starting to be introduced to his flaws, that being his inability to see the big picture, he always makes good strategies and plans and is a great leader and has a sense of humour, these are good qualities, and when he is called impulsive it’s by generals who have the experience to think about the bigger picture where he goes for the most damage on a small scale, Poe has a very complimentary arc to Fin in that they both have to shift their thinking when the resistance is weakened because saving people becomes more important than always beating the bad guys.

so from that understanding of his character I don’t understand what stereotypes are being used here? genuinely please let me know because is it that he’s “hot-headed”? it’s a war and they are losing and because of that he makes the wrong decision and lashes out when he is restricted and believes his superior is making the wrong choice so all the “hot-headed” stuff is really just character complexity and his prominence in the plot is the reason why it’s only applied to him. IDK what other stereotypes there are i legit haven’t seen that criticism actually explained in detail yet so if any latinx fans can let me know i’d be glad

Fin’s arc isn’t the same, yes he’s been sidelined and its annoying because I hate the thing they sidelined him for too but when we do focus on his character they evolve his problems from TFA: running away out of fear and self loathing becomes running from one responsibility because he believes they’re a lost cause in the moment and wants to protect Rey, which becomes planning to sacrifice himself to lash out at first order  in a way that mirror’s Poe’s journey because they both have to think better than that about who they’re fighting for. 

There are so many characters to juggle in the film and by partnering Finn up with Rose they do detract from his character development but only to allow her to help him and introduce her to the stage at the same time as moving the plot along and setting up things for the next movie thematically.  Finn was underserved but it was due to a writing puzzle of balancing an ensemble cast and ultimately at this point his story is supportive of the main plot but not directly a part of it and they could have done that differently but again that’s a writing flaw but not what I would call the worst part of the film i think people took it too hard and would like to hear a response to my reading of Finn’s place in the story in some detail too.

 Also I love Rose and her dynamic with Finn was my fav and desperately needed because they keep having Finn Poe and Rey be separated in these films and we needed that friendly banter and mutual support space filled and Rose is honestly the heart and soul of the resistance even if the casino sequence was written in a very on the nose blatant way these films are for a very broad audience and some people need that stuff spelled out for them. (i’ve seen TLJ twice and both times i think most people in the audience missed the kid using the force at the end which i thought was wonderfully subtle before his posing became blatant visually with the broom)

underuse and underwriting are both side effects of the ensemble cast and i’m willing to forgive the clumsiness of it generally but you’re correct about Rey’s writing, I’ve said it before but everything about her and kylo and snoke and Luke contained in the scenes between the second force skype conversation and Kylo waking up on the floor is the characters making bad choices, that’s why it feels out of character. the rest of the film even when characters make mistakes everyone is behaving consistently and there’s a balance but in that entire segment of the film all four characters make the wrong decisions. the results of these scenes afterwards is fine but i wish they hadn’t decided to have rey trust kylo so readily, considering her character history as a scavenger you know she’d be more skeptical than that.  And with Luke his reticence to tell her the truth is frustrating because that’s what happened to him regarding his father and he should know better, I think the moment of weakness misread as utter betrayal was interesting, not a great choice on the writing side but i’m willing to deal with it. outside of those scenes though it’s like the competent writing suddenly returned! 

Bad pacing? yeah, but it’s the middle film in a trilogy there was a lot of ground to cover.

also listen there’s nothing wrong with being a fan of villians in a work of fiction and personally i loved watching hux suffer and kylo get the door slammed in his face and just because i find his character entertaining doesn’t mean i wanted the rey/kylo romance teasing that happened. I have to accept that the writers are going for redemption arc stuff here but honestly give me complex pathetic villain who dies dramatically at the end and i’ll be happy, 

I wrote out all these paragraphs because you made a whoooole lot of generalisations and i wanted to respond with personal thoughts and specificity,\

 I can’t speak for groups i’m not a part of but i can give my personal reasons for liking the film. at the end of the day it’s not the worst star wars film and of my expectations of the franchise some flaws are a part of it. I LIKE goofiness intentional or not in my genre fiction.

 Representation-wise the LGBT stuff would have been wonderfull but as of right now it wasn’t something i felt should be expected but instead it is something I think should be pressured onto the creators to include canonically because there’s literally no reason not to include it that isn’t getting money from garbage people who hate diversity. 

On a casting level i love the inclusivity of race in the cast, not just with Finn, Poe, and Rose being the majority of our new young heroes, but also of background characters because that sort of understated representation is important too. Do i think the writing could be better? sure, but as far as stereotyping goes i don’t believe there’s deliberate and malicious intent there, any flaws are unintentional on the writers side and their personal biases, but personally I still don’t see the specific problem you’re citing here and would like to hear more about it because I don’t get it.

also pls chill with the “white people and kylo stans” attitude here because i get why people don’t like adam driver, but you’re being deliberately escalating in your language and i’m not okay with that, it’s a false equivalence of the concepts of white complacency when it comes to representation with….. people who like the main villain. 

He’s the main bad guy. he’s played by an actor cast with his looks in mind because he’s one of the few villains who doesn’t spend the whole film behind a mask or with cgi or makeup effects obscuring him, he’s placed in a position of power and given sympathetic elements because a complex villain is more interesting than, oh, say, every simple evil marvel villain who wants to destroy the earth (and I say that as someone who likes marvel films) they knew they couldn’t recapture the appeal of darth vader so they aimed for audience enjoyment in a different way and it worked and it’s pointless to be mad at fans of star wars for liking it’s main villain?

 I’m not saying fans who take it too far by going “he did nothing wrong”/”his victimisation excuses his actions” or who woobie-fy him or who shit on other characters are in the right here, they’re not, and it is frustrating when there’s so many good characters that others lose screen time and complexity to focus on him when he’s a shitty fascist who wants power for himself. 

just like, de-escalate your aggression here because i’m talkative as hell and I also want better representation but I’m also one hundo percent about viewing media and people complexly and in terms of the fiction i thought it was a good film and in terms of the choices by the creators in how they crafted that film i thought they did okay but could have done waaay better and that’s what fans want. 

i’m not gonna speak for most LGBT/non white fans because I’m only a part of one of those categories personally but i’m SURE a chunk of the audience responses in those reviews trashing the movie are from straight white cis dudes who are mad about all the POC in the film or goofy writing choices they feel undermines their view of the movie and they’re objectively wrong about a lot of things but their opinions are still added to that review percentage and the only way to know who thought what from what background and coming from what perspective is to go through every review and make a chart and that sort of research isn’t something i’ve done and you probably haven’t done it either so we can only speak from our view from discussing with friends and online and on tumblr i have seen some lgbt and poc  responses and most of them are positive, a couple of people aren’t and that’s only my dashboard but i can’t assume it represents the communities as a whole

so anyone seeing this long ass post who hasn’t unfollowed me: what’s your opinion?

I think I got your point about this days. Straight characters don't deserve days. Thanks for making me feel very good with being straight... :l Have a good day!

Uh, what?? First of all, I’m not some bitch that “hates straight people” if that’s what you’re saying. Also I hate to be like this but it’s very guilt-trippy to say you “feel bad about being straight” because of me. You honestly shouldn’t, your sexuality is as valid as mine, but you’re kind of really privileged sexuality-wise.Like you probably know all this but being homosexual, I’m at risk of being hung, stoned, put in concentration camps (yeah theyre coming back for gay people), etc., and am hated by half/most of the world, even for holding someone’s hand.I know it was not your intent to come off even slightly homophobic, but well, you kind of did.Now we’re past the basics of privilege, let’s talk about representation. Now I can guarantee you there are 74883929 straight people in every form of media. you will never not find someone you can relate to. but us lgbt+ people? yeah, most media has no one for us to relate to. none. zéro. lgbt+ people thinking they’re bad and awful and messed up because we’re not straight is a huge cause of uh, death (yeah) within the society of lgbt+ people. a reason for that? they can’t see themselves. there are no characters that represent us in a good way. luckily that is changing now, but that should have always been a right. cassandra clare’s books are really important to us. she’s one of the first authors that dared to include even one gay character, and the libraries didnt support them, they had red labels stuck across them and were restricted. she was offered 3x the money to write a clace series but denied. I know a lot of us lgbt+ people have thought about the lgbt+ characters in tsc and they’ve helped us, they’ve saved lives. since why would an author include it if it was wrong? Next part: okay so Haline is really under appreciated due to fetishisation of mlm and straight girls (that is a generalisation im not personally attacking you or anything!!1!) can’t find women hot right? that must equal disrespect and no shipping! hm yeah no. if you’ve seen Hetty’s (emmarosales) post on it (which you should definitely read!! its educational), you’ll know all about that. Haline is never talked about. Fics about any wlw get 20 notes or fewer. Fics about mlw or mlm get over 100 notes and more and there are so many of them. Seeing people ignore Haline, a ship that means so much to me and others, is really hurtful. you’re not an ally if you ignore wlw but stan the hell out of mlm. im sorry but its the truth. haline day happened to spread more appreciation of this beautiful ship, in the hopes that we would see more content of them, which did kind of work, (thanks for everyone who is posting it!) but hardly. As a homosexual person, it is hard for me to stand up for myself in this world. The lgbt+ community as a whole is oppressed, and straight people are in the front. Even in every tsc series the main couple is straight, which is understandable considering the time periods, which is why primarily the eldest curses and then the wicked powers (kit and ty) are so important to us. I have loads of posts about these subjects so by searching things like “wlw” “fetishise”/“fetishisation” and “sexuality” on my account you can find them :). The last thing we need is days for characters and ships that are already appreciated. Perhaps you can imagine how it would feel when characters who are usually straight and white have days that are more popular than days that support marginalised and oppressed groups of people. You will get the spotlight again, which isn’t right. there shouldnt be one group of people considered more important than another. Tumblr isn’t representative of the world. Just because we can say this stuff here it doesn’t mean we can in the world. I don’t see how you can feel bad for being straight, it’s like you would want to be another sexuality, but I’ll get to that in a minute. Your voice is held above our (marginalised people, lgbt+ people, poc ((although i am not a poc so ‘our’ is not a term i can use in that matter)), mentally ill people, neuroatypical people, etc.) voices. You can’t help that, that’s not you’re fault. But it does the opposite of helping when you put a straight, white character in the spotlight for a day. You see, tumblr is not the rest of the world, as I stated earlier. On tumblr you don’t get pride festivals shut down or monitored by the police, not protecting the lgbt+ people but in the way that they are dangerous and could pose a threat, or so they can put us in handcuffs for unbelievably stupid reasons. In tumblr you don’t get white supremacist groups with blazing torches chanting the nazi motto, normalised by the government, or in this case the staff. those groups have no police monitoring them. you see lgbt+ people on tumblr and probably think we are supported by the majority of the world, but we are not. most of the world is prejudiced against us. tumblr is not what the real world is like for the oppressed and marginalised.Okay, so now I’ll talk about that other thing. You should never say you feel bad about being straight, as if you would want to be any other sexuality. Yes, I’m proud of my sexuality, as are others of the lgbt+ community, but it is absolutely awful to have the oppression that comes with it. Even small things said against straight people are not intended harmfully, although they aren’t always nice— they don’t compare to the thousands of years of torment we have received. the history against lgbt+ (and poc definitely but since the ask was sexuality-based, so is this) people is too large and horrible for any prejudice against heterosexuals to ever compare. you don’t want that discrimination. I hope you have gotten my point. This essay was definitely way more than just about the ‘days’ but i really wanted to get this across, and I hope that after reading this you will understand how things like 'Julian day’, etc., are bad.Thanks ;)

“It’s patriarchy”

I’ll be making lots of comparisons throughout the post in order to illustrate better my point. Lauren said it: “It’s rampant sexism”. On the media, on the GP’s perception, on the production process, on the industry in general.

Let’s start with some basics....

BB released an article back in early 2015 where it was described Why Can't Modern Girl Groups Land a Radio Hit? These modern GG more like 5H & LM. In this written piece there are several statements that undoubtedly caught my attention. Starting with the last paragraph:

When I asked Biddle why he thinks One Direction enjoy more stateside success than girl groups, he echoed Wiegenstein's sentiment. "I don't know 100 percent. I guess it's because those boys are 'cute'? It could be as simple as that."

How sad it is that we exist in the midst of 21st century & still there are people that prefer “pretty faces & looks” over talent– btw this comment is not triggered to 1D in the slightest, I have nothing but respect for them– I just mean this in a very generalised form.

It’s not secret that a girlband has to work 10x harder to get a quarter of the recognition a boyband gets.

Similarly, a girl group isn't as easy to promote as a boy band. "In terms of teen magazines, the idea of marketing different members of boy bands is easier," says Anna Louise Wiegenstein, a former pop culture instructor (and Little Mix fan), who's giving a talk on One Direction fan culture at the National Pop Culture Association/American Culture Association Conference in April. "There's the 'funny one,' the 'mysterious one' -- it's easy to make quizzes and profile pieces around them."

When marketing a girl group to teenage girls, Wiegenstein continues, it's harder to tap into those teenage hormones. "When you're talking about a group of girls, they target the brands around personalities," she says. "It's more like, 'Which one would be your friend?' And there's less of a fantasy aspect to that."

Leaving aside the marketing strategy (which is true, bc how many times we have seen someone in the fandom say “I’m more like Lauren” or “Dinah & I would get along” etc.), I want to focus in the use of “teenage hormones”. Hormonal is always associated to the female self. Which leads me to jump into the media field:

Here a contrast on how media reported 5H x Camila vs. 1D x Zayn

Informing about the “We don’t talk to our ex-bandmates anymore” moment.

In contrast to Camila’s report, Zayn’s one has got this “scattering element”, if I can call it like that. The “chunky girls” & “Gigi Hadid” features helped to divert the viewer’s attention from the main point. Just look at the comments section from the two videos & the difference is pretty self explanatory….

Sadly the more problematic the situation evolves around the girls, the better. For boys, the situation is showcased in a much lighter form even if the conflict is tighter over there.

We know that in both cases narratives are recycled. However on this side the girls haven’t threw shade thus far, unfortunately media portraits the whole in an almost unforgivable way. For the record there was not really much to report. It’s only about the time Lauren posted the “fake that confidence bih” tweet, only to later explain it was to herself.  Still that was not going to stop them from pulling a video to attract a handful of viewers. The segment starts by quoting the title, which by the way ensures grabbing the spectator’s attention: “Did Lauren Jauregui diss Camila Cabello AGAIN After Grammy After-Party?”

*in my most sarcastic tone* You guys, apparently L shaded C more than once & we didn’t know… I grew three grey hairs with that headline itself.  Right after including Lauren’s tweet to the assumed shade, the only thing they added on the coverage script was a simple “preach girl” 😒😒

Whereas in the 1D side Zayn did throw shade (several times), a public fight on Twitter unleashed & the reporter’s remarks sound nothing like in the 5H coverage. The feud is a lot less magnified. “Ugh! Put the weapons down boys!”. Hell, Clever made sure to shut down the rumours that Zayn had unfollowed the entire band. Note how they even show what happen to be “receipts” while the host says “I’ve put some of my best creeping skills to the test & found out he has not yet unfollowed them so there’s that bit of kinda sorta good news for you & in hope that this won’t ruin their friendship for good.” We can also add how in a poor attempt of diminishing the climax they brought the dolls into the scene. Seriously, I’d love to see them doing something like this when addressing the girls’ drama *sighs* only in my wildest dreams.

Why does media scandalises more the girlgroup’s party than the boyband’s one?

I’ve said this before, but I don’t mind repeating it. Hollywood has used the stigma that “women can’t get along while working” for so long. Plus the infamous stereotypes of our incredible rational society that a girl is constantly hormonal, temperamental & always has to be involved in any sort of catfight with someone from the same gender. There has to be a “bitch” in the story without exception. Inside the entertainment industry, they love taking advantage of this cliché. Not said by me, but coming directly from a very renowned actress…

Jessica Chastain talks sexism in the industry

If the video loads for you, I highly recommend that you watch it. It’s such a short article, nevertheless I’ll be attaching some extracts below:

There was a great myth that I grew up with that women don’t work well together,” Jessica Chastain tells Vanity Fair.

Back when she was promoting The Help in 2011, Chastain explains, “so many of the questions I was getting from the press was about fighting on set—’Was it tough to be on set with all those girls?’ I wasn’t getting those questions with any of the other movies that I’d been involved with.” 

Out of joke, I lost count of all the times I’ve heard this same question with 5H.

Fun fact that I found randomly: Reminder that only 3% of the decision-making in media is made by women. Which means that 97% of how women are portrayed is decided by men.

Always pitting women against each other is what our generation does best nowadays. Clearly mgmt & the label have used this with the fandom. The creation of “-izers” are a great example of this. As well this standard is ultimately what impulses the narrative on a daily basis. Stans went from loving & defending the group with their lives, to only caring about their faves. I know some fans still keep up with each girl & love them all. I have faith in those stans. If you’re one of them, don’t fall for that mischievous game, thank you.

DON’T BE NAIVE, KIDS.

P.S. I leave you the link to others sexist scenarios in the industry. Worth checking each out.

This Is The Kind Of Bullsh*t You Face As A Woman In The Music Industry

99% of women working in the film and TV industries have experienced sexism

I’ve heard, for example, that if a male director is being picky, people say he has a strong vision. With a woman, people will say she is being difficult. It’s also common to assume that kindness is a sign of weakness.

7 Anecdotes From Female Artists Show How Deep Sexism Runs in the Music Industry

"Women in the industry are judged more," Nicki Minaj told Time back in February. "If you speak up for yourself, you're a bitch. If you party too much, you're a whore. Men don't get called these things."

Grimes Says Male Producers Threatened to Not Finish Her Songs if She Didn't Have Sex

Grimes is no stranger to being open about the misogyny and sexism she and other females face in the industry.

Grimes fielded one fan's question, who asked why the topic seems like such a "regular thing" for her to tweet and speak about if she finds it so annoying. Grimes explained it only seems that because of the way the press fixates on it.