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erikiara80 · 8 months

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New theory: I'm going to connect the Will with brown eyes to birthdaygate

I like the idea of Vecna stealing memories, and it's possible that in S5 the people Will loves forget him, or that he forgets them, but I think there might be another explanation about his birthday.

Ok, Will having brown eyes is only mentioned in the S1 Missing poster, and we only see them in the shed scene.

So, I wonder if they focus so much on his eyes in S2 not to show that he's possessed, but that there is a timeline where Will's eyes have always been brown.

It would be a smart way to hide the truth in plain sight; letting people believe that the color has changed because of the possession.

But S3 should make us doubt about that explanation. In fact, Billy's eye color never changes. There's even a close up of his eye at the end of 3x03 (here), when he's already controlled by the Mind Flayer. I think they wanted us to notice the difference between the two Williams.

But back to birthdaygate. They said that in S5 they included many S2 ideas and that we should definitely rewatch it. One of the reasons could be the mention of Will's birthday and the I forgot your birthday card in 2x04.

I talk about the Will the Wise scene here

Theory: Maybe the Will with brown eyes was born on March 22, but not the Will with hazel eyes, the one we've seen in every season, including S4. If that's true, it means that nobody forgot his birthday in S4.

We can't be sure, because we don't see what color Will's eyes are when Joyce says 'Do you know what March 22nd is', or when she looks at Will the Wise (and the birthday card). But I find it interesting that Will's birthday is mentioned in the only scene in the entire show where his eyes are brown. The same color mentioned in the Missing poster. And that we only see the birthday card in S1, the season when they make the poster, and then in one shot in 2x04

The card in S1

And in 2x04

They even show Hopper's confusion here, because he doesn't see anything. In fact, in all the other shots/episodes the drawing is on another wall.

Before Joyce looks at the drawing

After she looks at it

The drawing in 2x01 and 2x05 (Will's eyes, always hazel)

I have questions tho. For example. The birthday card. Is it foreshadowing of Will's family forgetting his birthday, or about something important in the past that we'll see in S5?

Also, S4 starts with the mention of someone stealing thoughts. A hint about Vecna stealing the memory of the birthday, or about him spying on Max and the other kids?

The 'Be sure to specify birth date' could also have two meanings. That people forgot Will's birthday, or that it's not on March 22, like we thought.

Then in 4x08 Brenner says that One takes everything from his victims, including their memories. I know he didn't kill Will in S2, but he was literally in his mind. And I'm sure that line is important.

But let's say that the theory is correct and Will's birthday, the Will with hazel eyes, is not on March 22. Then when is it? I think it would make sense if it was just a few days later.

And maybe they told us when it is. March 29, Billy's birthday. The hint could be the fact that his name changes to William. Also, interesting that Not forgotten... If Will's birthday is really on March 29 then it's true, nobody forgot it.

So, maybe the Will with hazel eyes was born on March 29, and the Will with brown eyes was born on March 22.

And IF Will's birthday is on March 29, it makes also sense that Mike doesn't give him any present. Maybe that's why he was supposed to stay in Cali for a week. March 22-29. He wanted to be there for Will's birthday.

But then he sees Will at the airport and his brain stops working. Joyce goes to Russia, El gets arrested, and people start shooting them. They were all busy trying to stay alive and bury agents in the desert. I get that they didn't mention the birthday, lol

Also, this means that Will's birthday would be at the beginning of S5! Before the time jump, when he can hear Vecna again, when he can have visions of other birthdays and Lonnie. In the middle of the apocalypse.

It would make less sense imo if the birthday was before Spring Break, because I'm sure Mike would at least mention it and say that he was sorry he wasn't there.

So yeah,maybe I'm wrong, but seeing Will's birthday in S5, while they have to hide from soldiers, monsters and an angry mob would be epic.

Tagging you, @lilitblaukatz I'm curious to know what are your thoughts on birthdaygate

#byler #birthdaygate #will byers #mike wheeler #timeline theory #st vecna #henry/vecna/001 #henry/vecna/one #st theory #stranger things

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blognarrymybabes · 2 years

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okay, I have couple of things to say regarding all the panic currently in BYLERNATION. (my thoughts are chaotic right now as I am fuming as well you guys so this might sound all messy but hear me out and let me know if you guys agree)

1. Don’t put too much thought into something Noah or Millie says, I have two reasons for that A) Millie has always supported Mileven, She ( sorry to say ) has been biased and it’s fine by me since she is half of that ship. She was apparently also the one to suggested for Mileven kiss at the snowball. Also, she has been quiet during the interviews only talking about her solo plotline and mileven at the beginning of vol1 B) Noah is the biggest spoiler of the series, he literally posted a picture with harness I mean c’mon, also he ships byler we all have seen it.

2. Noah has to stay ambiguous as that is his character arc this season (as sad as that is, I really hoped he had some bigger plotline since his character is secretive and have powers or something) , and his feelings might be like a big reveal in vol2 ending (vecna curse or something). Maybe they are just trying to keep the suspense

3. WHAT OTHER REASON do they have for NOT putting Finn and Noah in the interviews together. They have one fucking interview together. ONE. And that too with Millie of all the people with them. They could have easily put them together with the other two cali boys. They didn’t. Why? IF Byler is not real, just a bromance then WHY DIDN”T THEY NOT PUT 4 BOYS Together in the interviews, not a single interview. That seems purposeful, since we see 4 of them together for the entire season.

4. The actors behaviors, In David’s interview everyone is giggling and smiling especially Finn. SO they are happy about Will’s feelings for Mike? Finn’s comments on Byler, its been confused, nonchalant and downright clueless, just like his character. But his comments about Will’s loves for Mike “its beautiful”.

5. Noah and Finn shipping Byler so casually and easily. Why do that if there is no possibility? Why doesn’t Finn talk more about mileven and how he ships it and be happy about? I have seen his interviews and man he doesn’t look a tiny bit happy when talking or promoting Mileven. I mean, you can be a little bit enthusiastic. BUT he is giggling about Will’s attraction towards Mike ? Make it make sense. + bonus him discussing mileven’s future, whether they are together or seperated ???

Annddd I forgot the part, “um.. yeah, the ship name” the fuck!

6. Now character wise - If Mike’s whole ass problem is not able to say I love you to El then A) That is so fucking dumb lol, that’s the plot for Mike? I would laugh at this point. B) there is zero logic for Mike to be confused because -

its not like El is not his girlfriend and just his friend for him to be afraid.

Its not like he didn’t say I love you before. And as if he doesn’t know whether she loves him or not.

IF I have a boyfriend, we are together, he says I love you to me daily and wants me to say I love you back which mind you, I have already said once, then I am atleast confident that I am not going to be rejected and I should be able to say it back. Even if I am not able to, our conversations would be way different than the once they have in the series, they could have their conversations explicitly and in many other ways. I would assume the writers do know their English lol

5. To emphasis how illogical this is, let’s say he is scared of falling in love and saying I love you then SOMEONE EXPLAIN TO ME FOLLOWING THINGS

a) why Mike never utters the word ‘love’ during their argument, like why say “i say it” instead of “I love you or ofcourse I love you or you know I do”. And also why say “I care” (my mind is blank rn, I can’t come up with other phrasings but you get my point)

b) what is he so fucking confused about when all he did last season is assert to everyone around them how he is in a relationship, how he has girlfriend , how he LOVES her, how nothing should happen to her not to mention all the making out. I mean, what are you confused about and what exactly are you trying to figure out ???? what is this problem you can’t discuss with anyone, not your sister or your mother or your friends?

c) Why ignore Will? Why lash out on him and emphasis on being friends? Mike doesn’t have an idea about Will’s feelings, so he is not being homophobic. Why not hug him? Mike doesn’t have any problem hugging Dustin. Why not Will? If you missed him so much and felt like you lost him, you would have hugged him when you reunited with him. Why not do that? Why so much awkwardness that even casual viewers picked up on it.

6. Even though Will’s character is hinted to be queer since season 1. Most and I mean MOST of the Byler proofs are from Mike’s side [ Will’s drawings all over his rooms, Tracing Will’s drawing while mourning his death, frantically looking for Will without care for your own life, the entire season 2, all the staring, lip glances, that Byler fight, season 3 end with that smile on Mike’s face ] ITS TOO FUCKING MUCH FOR IT TO BE NOTHING.

7. If they wanted to queerbait us or just talk about Will being unusual and his sexuality “up for interpretation” or let’s say even “Byler unrequited” then they could have easily done it in one season, like Maya Hawke’s character Robin. She comes out and that’s it, nothing changes other than Steve doesn’t have a girlfriend.

Will has a crush, Enter Mileven, Will is crushed and moves on. They add that point to Will’s character and then that’s it move on with the story.

Why stretch it out so much ? Invest so much time and effort into clues, that includes everything from the costume colors, to the props, dialogue phrasings, eye contacts and character placement. The entire Byler interactions could have easily been done differently without changing the storyline at all.

But they don’t. They put all this work.

Not to mention all the social media posts about Byler from official accounts nonetheless.

8. And if you’ve not seen my last post. Levy has said “There aren’t many accidents on the show” “There is clear intention, strategy and real thought given to each and every character” Now if they are saying this, that means ALL THOSE DETAILS were intentional, whatever they did with Byler this season is intentional. And if there is an intention then there must be a goal, an endpoint to achieve.

And unless their endpoint is to queerbait then that is just bad writing, waste of their and our energy and honestly, in 2022 downright homophobic. I mean don’t play with the main characters or do one of the main character so dirty. Not to mention cowardly to succumb to the all the mileven pressure and hype because so far what I have seen in this fandom is mileven shippers are aggressive and they comment ALOT on the official accounts.

9. Going for Mileven Endgame would be straight up fan service because their entire relationship doesn’t make sense to me at all. And with the way its falling apart since season 3. Also, Byler has more history and chemistry tbh

This is all just my personal opinion, you can have your own.

I believe we are going to have all sorts of leaks and confusion for the next month. Remember, they have to keep the buzz for the show going so that people actually watch the next 2 episodes. All the shippers watch the show. They need to keep the hype alive and for people to keep talking about it. Industry(All shows) has employees that track social media. So don’t let this affect your mental health.

And if all the leaks are true then they are just coward, just bad writing (there is no other explanation) who are focusing on the business rather than the story, Or maybe Byler is not that important to them in terms of the entire story which again doesn’t make sense since all the demons, upside down have been many times compared to real life growing up issues.

That’s all for now besties, I might come back and organize my thoughts more properly in this post

#byler #byler is endgame #byler rights

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dubiousdisco · 2 years

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"You could not let him go. (...) You are the monster"

I think this line foreshadows both the M*leven breakup as it does the endgame couples. Bear with me,

Hopper (the one who actually used the line "I let her go" to refer to his first wife, which allowed him to eventually move on from his loss and find El and Joyce), lets go when he mistakenly believes he is the curse and tries to help them from afar. This is when Joyce, who had also moved on but came back for him when she knew he could be alive, finally manages to rescue him and he is reunited with El later on.

Steve is shown (and states) he can't let go of Nancy. Both Nancy and Jonathan let go of each other even if they really didn't want to, because they thought the other would be happier without them. Notably, in contrast to Mike and El, there was not a demand for an explanation during their absence. Jonathan came back running to Nancy as soon as he understood she was in trouble.

Robin let Vickie go, and perhaps she will end up with Vickie.

Dustin and Suzie are very comfortable with the distance, but she was grounded for changing his grade, which she accepted. She did, however, help the cali crew with his "birthday gift" when they told her about this. She let him go but came back to help him.

Lucas let Max go and have her distance but told her he was there for her and was reached out for her as soon as she allowed him to. I still believe they are going to have that date.

The most annoying guy in the series, Jason, could not let go of Chrissy. It is understandable that the shock got to him, but not excusable that he couldn't accept chrissy doing weed and decided the only thing to do was to kill Eddie. He and Chrissy are not, or course, reunited, and he has a bad ending.

Henry Creel has a great disdain for human beings, except maybe the ones that remind him of himself (el? will?). He, however, after turning into vecna, does not let any of his victims go and in fact consumes them. He tells nancy he remembers everyone he killed. He lives in the upside down version of his house, in frozen time, and a grandfather clock is shown when he is about to attack. The big bad of the series has many traits relative to mental illness, but the one we are focusing on is his inability to let go.

Will, very notably, tells Mike (he) will always need him, but lets him go as if ripping off a band-aid. (note that will is rewarded at this point, he is back to being Mike's number 1. Even when El walks away at the end, he stays with Will.

now, the complicated part.

Mike basically told Will he was about to let Eleven go because she doesn't need him and there's nothing else he can do for her. He tried to help her during the whole season (told the DJ to stop during the Angela bullying and tried to reach her in the rink, taking breakfast to her, asking gently what happened and assuring her she can talk to him because he is nobody important 'been bullied all his life' [this is an issue as well] and those people are nothing to El, a super hero [another issue], tries to reach her by foot when the cops are taking her away by car and tries to assure her he will "fix this", tries to help her during her fight with Vecna but only manages to say what she wants to hear thanks to Will, and even so, it seems like it didn't help much, i'm sure i'm forgetting something). He only insisted on the relationship because Will reassured him that she needed him. Romantic or not, he does love El. He will stay for her if she does need him.

El doesn't really NEED Mike, but she is shown several times acting as if she does throughout the seasons. This season features her being bullied and not telling Mike as to not taint his image of her, being moved to tears by the bullying and by the fact that MIKE SAW IT HAPPEN, and running away from mike when he was trying to reach her because him seeing her in need of help made her feel worse.

She demands Angela tell MIKE it was a joke and they really are friends, and when she refuses, moved by the bullying AND the fact that she can't mantain her image to mike anymore, she attacks her. We see a flashback to Brenner. We can easily infer that this moment made her feel like a monster.

This season we are also shown a flashback of el making Max fall off her skate in s2 when trying to impress mike into letting her join the group. El did this without knowing Max because she was upset a girl made Mike smile. In this context we know she also feels like a monster for this and that she did this to "keep Mike".

When mike tries to reach out for her, he mentions she's a super hero [a problem, since she can only think of herself as a super hero or a monster] and to answer why she didn't tell him about any of this, she shows him all the (frankly giant) stack of letters he sent her and points out the 'from mike', he 'can't even write' that he loves her. She rejects his reaching out, possibly because she felt like she was losing him as well. but still she tried to keep him through her lies in the beggining. even her letter to him after going back to brenner, although signed "from el" instead of "love el" was TO MIKE about becoming a superhero again, a person she knows he will love.

What I think is that after the training with Brenner, and the realization of the monster Brenner became/was and the monstrous things he did because he could not let go of Henry AND of Eleven, she is getting ready to let Mike go. She is not the monster, but she did consider many of the things she did because of Mike (making max fall, breaking Angela's face FOR NOT LYING TO MIKE and not just because of the bullying) monstruous. She doesn't want to be like Brenner. I think this is how her arc will end. She will let Mike, the first person she bounded with and who helped her not feel like a monster, the person she loved the most in her childhood, go. and she will move on. And maybe then she will accept his help as her friend and the help of all her friends and family.

And I think Mike, who had almost accepted their breakup already, will also let his superman go, but he will stay friends with El Hopper, Will's sister, and his best friend who understands, just like Will does.

There have been parallels between Will and El since season one, especially in regards to Mike. So if El goes from being his girlfriend to his best friend, perhaps Will will go from being his best friend to his boyfriend?

While I'm not sure this is what the duffers are planning, the season does end like this:

#byler #byeler #byler centric #jopper and jancy are mentioned #not gonna tag teh other ships because i think people will be bothered to find this in the ships tags #eleven analysis #s*tancy is not seen as endgame in here sorry #anyway i think this is what the letting go theme is about #vecna henry also mentions that max thought about following billy and could not let him go

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mike-wheeler-ik-what-you-are · 2 years

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I love making up scenarios so here's my vision for s5.

I'm gonna leave out the supernatural stuff for the majority because 1) my blog is about byler 2) my brain is obsessed with byler 3) I have no ideas for that and 4) byler.

after the timeskip mike and el are back together again. their relationship doesn't work as usual

this leads to them fighting again and mike says "but didn't you need me?"

to which el responds "I don't need anyone, it has always been you needing me and we both know it"

and mike is so so fucking confused bc of the painting so he says "and what about the painting"

he expects el to say something but she just says "I have no idea what you're talking about"

after a few moments of disbelief he realizes she's not lying and wants to confront will

they have a fight because will obviously doesn't want to say why he lied while mike is mad that he lied to him and now doesn't even know what to believe anymore

they don't even have the time to stay mad at each other though because vecna uses mike's confusion / disappointment + the amount of trauma that he's carrying to target him

nobody knows mike's favorite song n we're in apocalyptic times so perhaps no-one has even a walkman with them and El has been taken by the government again

nobody knows what to do, but then dustin remembers will's connection to the UD and they decide to give it a try

will gets inside mike's mind to find him but instead of finding him in a happy memory it's 1984 and he's near his garage again

will gets nervous because he remembers perfectly that day, he is surprised mike does too though

- didn't expect to find you here

- will? are- are you real? how did you get here?

- it's a long story, hurry up, let's get out of here. I'll explain it to you once we're back

- I have no idea how to get out of here though

- oh. me neither. guess we're fucked then

- I guess.

- so, is this your happy memory?

- no, not at all, it's actually one of my worst memories...

- then why did you get there?

- I don't know, I guess it was the first thing that came to my mind

-oh. ok

- I guess I was sort of nostalgic too, things were easier back then...

- you mean with el?

- no, no, I meant with me actually, 'guess I was more naïve once

a beat

- you know, I never told you but I actually had written you a letter for when I came to cali

- oh. why didn't you give it to me then?

- I don't know...

- you could still give it to me now if you wanted to...

mike can hear his own heartbeat, is he really doing this now out of every moment? fuck it, he might not even get out of this alive, who cares anymore -

- mike? did you hear that too?

the voices are getting louder, it's everyone in hawkins telling mike to wake up. they get out of the gate.

they get out and will wakes up, they did it but they don't know how

end part one

mike and will go back to ignoring each other once again, things are awkward and they don't know how to act around each other

then, right when everyone thinks things are finally getting better, BAM! will gets vecna'd

mike, desperate, takes out the fucking letter and reads it out loud, thinking it might be the last time will gets to hear him

meanwhile vecna is saying shit like "nobody cares about you, they think you're a mistake, they didn't even remember your birthday"

but mike reading his letter to will is opening a gate so will doesn't care and he keeps running

happy birthday, will is how mike's letter ends, and will gets out

willel siblings defeat vecna together and, over the ruins of hawkins, the sun rises again, the sky painted by yellows and blues

mike and el hug each other, "I thought I had lost you" says mike "you never did" says her "I still dump your ass though" she adds, and they both laugh

from behind el appears will too, she gently pushes mike towards him "come on, go, you two clearly need to talk", she gives him a thumbs up

"uhm, hi" says mike, "hi"

- so, about the painting...

- yeah, I'm sorry about that...

- no, no you don't have to apologize! I get it you were just trying to make me feel better

- no, you're right, I actually did lie

- what do you mean?

- you know, when I said all those things about el. they weren't actually about el, they were about me

mike's breath catches "oh"

"it has been you this whole time will. it has always been you"

THEY FUCKING KISS AND I'M SCREAMING FROM MY COUCH

the grass grows again from the soil and the world seems to be living again

speaking of living, lucas comes in running to inform everyone that max has woken up, el's face lights up

elmax reunite

mega huge ass time skip

it's 2024, they are all old now, we see mike has become a writer, he lives in his apartment in NYC with will, they're releasing their own comic: stranger things

#byler #byler tumblr #stranger things #mike wheeler #will byers #mike wheeler i know what you are #byler is endgame

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tirednerd2012 · 2 years

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What if when Nancy was Vecna’d to spread a message to her, Jonathan was also Vecna’d at the same time for a similar reason and a more specific message for the twins.

Nancy and Jonathan getting to work together to get each other out of there, fighting and communicating what to do after they get out since they’d be separated once again.

I just want them to work and fight together again :’)

Both of them being Vecna'd at the same time from thousands of miles apart. Obviously everyone else is freaking out, especially team Cali because they have no idea what's happening. And Jonathan and Nancy look up and see each other in Hawkins Lab and they're both horrified but they lock eyes and just run into each other's arms. They ask at the same time if the other is real, and respond with yes immediately and Jonathan asks if she's safe, what's going on. Then they hear Vecna's voice and Jonathan tells her to run. They get chased, learning about how Vecna is Henry Creel and 001 as they run through the lab and the old Creel house. Jonathan is insanely confused but he is trying to keep Nancy safe and close.

They run through, holding hands and shutting doors behind them in an attempt to slow Vecna down. Nancy is explaining that this is the threat and Jonathan is catching up as he grabs her, holding her close to him as there's a crash. They see a young El and follow her, but they're led to the entire backstory of Henry Creel. And they're both horrified because this is what caused all of this. Vecna decides to torment them with images of Barb, which leads to Nancy looking away, hiding herself in Jonathan's embrace, and then they're back at the Byers house and a young Will runs past them, screaming for Jonathan's help. Jonathan goes to help because Will's in danger, but Nancy reminds him that it's a memory, that Will isn't in this situation and they need to stick together. Then they're in the cabin the night of Will's exorcism and it still kills Jonathan to see Will screaming and thrashing and Nancy has to hold him while everything feels like it's falling apart.

Then they're back in the lab all over again. They're dizzy and confused, but they're still able to keep up. They both end up trapped by Vecna, who uses the vines and holds them in the chairs like before. He tells them he's not going to kill them, yet, but wants them to deliver the messages. For Nancy, Hawkins will fall. Everything he told her before essentially. And there's nothing she can do about it, nor can the others. Hawkins will fall. Then the world. But then he looks at Jonathan and focuses his attention on him. He tells Jonathan to tell El what he's seen when he finds her, and to tell Will he's coming for him, too. And even when his life is in danger, that pisses Jonathan off and he tells him to stay away from his siblings. Vecna tells him that Eleven started this, and she'll have to see it in the end and "there's a reason I took Will from your family."

Jonathan still tells him that he won't get away with this. That El will kick his ass and no one is taking them from him again. Nancy backs him up, saying they'll fight to their dying breath and Vecna says he knows that and then asks Jonathan to choose. At first Jonathan is confused but Nancy just looks horrified as Vecna inches closer to the love of her life and asks him to make a choice: him or Will. If he can only save himself or he could save his little brother, who would he choose. As Vecna asks this, the vines start to tighten around Jonathan and Nancy is trying to break free to get to him.

Jonathan tells Vecna he can do whatever he wants to him, but "don't hurt them. Leave my little brother and sister alone. And let Nancy go." And that just gives Vecna something he can use against Will. His brother chose him instead and that will lead to Jonathan's death.

He sends them back, just toying with them rather than killing them. Nancy is screaming when she breaks out because "Jonathan's in trouble. Vecna's going to kill him!" And then she remembers how all of Hawkins will fall and she wants to cry but she decides to come up with a plan instead. She doesn't give a shit about what Vecna said, she'll save Hawkins and Jonathan. Nothing is going to take him from her. She still feels the echoes of Jonathan's hands around her when they both woke up there. She just got him back. She was just holding him. And she'll save him.

Meanwhile Jonathan wakes up and Will is almost in tears as he is kneeling beside him, asking him over and over again if he's okay, if he's hurt, what happened, etc.. Argyle is also really freaked out and Mike just stands there, shocked, giving Will space (Will shoved Mike out of the way when he tried to get Will away from Jonathan), but even his face is clouded with concern. Jonathan explains what he saw, still feeling Nancy on him instead of those damn vines, but if he focuses on that too long, he can, so he just keeps playing Nancy over and over again in his head. He tells them what he saw, about Hawkins falling, 001, and says they need to get to El. Now. He doesn't tell Will right away the part he's supposed to play in it, mostly because he can't bring himself to believe it.

#stranger things #jonathan byers #nancy wheeler

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winterda · 2 years

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Okay, since tomorrow is Stranger Things day, I thought I’d throw my prediction about who isn’t going to make it to the end of the season (and probably be proven wrong tomorrow, but all well). This is just speculation on my part, so no spoilers, just me guessing based off of what makes the most sense and biggest impact in terms of the show.

Okay, so I know everyone is pretty much guessing that Steve isn’t going to make it through this season. Ignoring that I hear that every season, I can see why. He’s a fan favorite, been around longer than the show runners intended by what they’ve told us, and his arc as “the babysitter” seems to be coming to an end since the kids have gotten so much older. Okay, I can see why people would think that. He’s close to the kids and his death would affect them ( mainly Dustin, but the others at least a bit) and Nancy and Robin would be upset. But in a story stand point, even if Steve gets a badass, heroic death, his death wouldn’t really do much else. We’ll be sad and maybe one or two characters will be a little more affected than the others, but there wouldn’t really be anything else to it that I can see. I love Steve. He’s my favorite character on the show, but I can admit that in terms of the story, his death wouldn’t impact the group in some earth shattering way. It would be a bit like Billy’s to be honest because there just aren’t that many characters that are that close to him.

You know whose death would be crushing to a good number of them. Someone who hasn’t really had much to do since season one except get a girlfriend and follow said girlfriend around except for this season where the only thing he is doing is floating around? And yes I know that this could actually describes two characters, but I’m talking about Jonathan. I mean, I’m sorry, I liked him alright during season one, but he’s just kind of been there since then. Season two he kind of did the same thing as he did in season one, and in season three he just kind of followed Nancy around. This season I guess he’s trying to protect Will and Mike and find El, but he’s not doing much besides being torn over (suggesting anyway) breaking up with Nancy and hanging out in Cali smoking weed with Argyle and going back to Nancy, who herself seems like she is ready to break up. It’s not a whole lot going on with him. I just think that the writers don’t really know what to do with him, especially when you have all these other characters now.

There is also the impact that his death would serve. Jonathan’s death would severely affect his family and their story going forward.

Joyce’s worst fear is losing her son, but she always was worried that it be Will for obvious reasons. Jonathan was the one she didn’t have to worry so much about and she relies on him a lot. His being gone would change her, just like Hopper losing his daughter did him.

Will looks up to Jonathan. I can see him being devastated enough about losing him that he becomes a much darker character.

El, who is his sister now, would feel so guilty if his death is related at all to Vecna and/or the Upside Down that it would cause a lot of issues with her new family, especially if Will thinks it’s her fault for opening the gate and causing all of this in first place.

Nancy would also be devastated as well as feel guilty since they had been pulling away from each other and she’s been getting closer to Steve.

Steve too would probably have a lot of guilt since he’s been harboring feeling for Nancy.

And Mike would also have a lot of complicated issues to deal with since his best friend, girlfriend, and sister would be so affected.

I’m just saying that from a story point of view, Jonathan’s death would create a lot of natural drama that the show could use next season. Something that Steve’s death wouldn’t do.

I also think that the show is kind of hinting that Jonathan might not make it too. Why? Because Jonathan was tied pretty closely with his car. And where is his car? Dead in the yard.

Just saying

#stranger things #stranger things spoilers #maybe #I’ll probably be wrong #one day to find out #spoilers #just in case

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sseroxy · 2 years

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Okey dokey we just got our final teaser, titles and release month for stranger things 4 so I'm gonna give my little theories on some of the stuff we might get!

youtube

Heres all the stuff I'm gonna go into, lets begin

The titles for this season are Here are the titles: The Hellfire Club, Vecna's Curse, The Monster and the Superhero, Dear Billy, The Nina Project, The Dive, The Massacre at Hawkins Lab, Papa, The Piggyback

Vecna is a dnd wizard-turned-lich. Those who seek arcane knowledge can be cursed to become Nothics, which are monsters who are a shell of their former selves, sulking forever. Another curse from Vecna is his eye and hand, which can replace that part of someone and give them powers from each part(there are a few other parts but these are the important ones), the eye can let the user see through pretty much everything physical or not, and the hand gives the user the power to kill things by touch, incredible strength, can even cast spells. These artifacts can turn the user evil through possible possession.

This sounds a lot like Victor Creed. He mustve been affected by the Mind Flayer or something else that has similar powers to Vecna, and made him kill his family. Maybe he sought something he wasnt supposed to. Also, the hand and eye will fail the user when its their time to die, so maybe when Creed tries to help the kids in their search, he kills himself/dies from the curse.

Also this the 2nd time we've gotten a dnd character reveal, so that means eirher 1, this will be a whole new character, or 2 it will just be another piece of the MF

Now, the Nothic thing has me thinking, who is the wizard in the party? Will. Who else is a magic caster? El. Either one of them could be a target for this dark magic, perhaps El due to the fact she no longer has her powers. She might be willing to do anything to get them back, esp if she knew hopper was still alive.

We know that we're going to see Els life in the lab, from the trailer "Eleven, are you listening?". And theres blood on some of the objects. Maybe thats Massacre at Hawkins Lab. Dive could be literal since there was a pic of Steve under water(I think it was leaked?), or could refer to El diving into her memories, possibly to find out what they did to her in order to get her powers back, or find another number.

The Nina Project is 100% Russian ep, no doubt in my mind on that, i dont think it could be anything else

And now we're almost certain "Papa" is alive based on the title and season 2.

Onto the trailer

El and Will are now in Cali, and shit hits the fan real quick

El is seen in a van/car and later being held back by two men I'm assuming are from Hawkins Lab. Theres a scene with military cars and a helicopter going to this remote area that seems to be a bunker. Then theres a scene with what i can only assume is El(based on clothing) standing in front of an explosion with dead people surrounding it-either 1. She got her powers back and went apeshit on them, the way she's standing there is unsettling; fists are clenched, its a strong stance. Maybe they were trying to put her in a sealed bunked bc they thought she was dangerous but she tore them up. It could be someone else bc the hair is short, but i doubt it due to the clothing and her hair is in a ponytail so it could be in front in the scene.

Joyce gets a nesting Russian doll from Russia bc of the stamps, and we know Murray uses those things, so perhaps a warning,and we see Murray looking shocked after hearing something on his headphones

Then there's people shooting inside of the Byers house with Will, Mike, Johnathan and someone else trying to get away/out, so perhaps theyre there for El

A scene with the 2 men waiting outside a cafe at night, maybe stalking El/the Byers?

A scene of people wearing MP helmets vs I'm guessing the US based on uniform. So possibly Russians vs the US

Ok so remember in season 3 how El got her leg all fucked up by the Mind Flayer? Do you remember how they needed to cut it open with a knife to get that one piece out? Yeah not normal. I barely saw anyone talking about the fact her blood was moving on the ground after they left the store, and Billy found it instead of following the piece of the MF in her leg instantly.

So not only was her blood moving the way the MF does in flesh form but Billy went to it before following the flesh piece and they had to cut her leg open, which wouldnt be needed since the wound was hella deep, the wound wouldnt heal that fast. It was completely healed in a matter of hours. She legit collapsed the way Billy did. Then she lost her powers after using up the remaining strength to yeet the flesh piece out. Ive been theorizing this since I saw the eps: The MF is still in her and is laying dormant like a disease, possibly the reason she lost her powers due to them being controlled by the brain which the MF would have easy access to(like avatar bookbinding). Perhaps it would awaken once the gate is open near her? Maybe it isnt like that and she just overused her powers? Maybe her overuse of power is exactly what the MF needed to shut them down from the inside. The MF disease theory could be the explosion scene.

We might see El trying to get her powers back in a fucked up way, maybe the visions could be something like Vecnas eye.

Will seems to also play a big role in this as he is another wizard of the party and has connection to the MF

Thats all i got so far folks!

Cant wait to see how this is gonna be the most messed up season yet!

#stranger things hopper #stranger things will #stranger things eleven #stranger things #stranger things 4 #season 4 #theory #st4 #st4 spoilers #Youtube

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mlchaelwheeler · 2 years

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sometimes i feel like there are just too many characters, and bc of that, there's always a couple of characters that just aren't focused on enough. like even though the episodes are longer than normal in vol 1, it feels like most of the time is being used up by El and other characters. so much so that characters like will, mike and jonathan (also lucas is often sidelined imo, but this season he still has more of a story related role than the cali crew) aren't really getting a huge look in bc there's not much time left to explore their arks. like ep 7 was super long, and that didn't even include will, jonathan and mike. apart of me kind of wishes they were with the hawkins group, so that at least they could be included in it hahaha

you said it all!! i was so excited to hear that all the episodes would be over an hour bc that means so much more character development, right? yah no 😐 so there was a lot of great development so far this season, but also a lot of time was wasted on plots that either i simply didn't care about or felt like didn't connect with the overall story. for example, why tf did jason have 2x more screen time than the cali crew?? he is SO unimportant and frankly really annoying. like. we get it, your girlfriend got murdered or whatever, and yes it did seem like he actually cared about her, but he's not important to the overall story!

another plot i found to be dragged out was the russia storyline. yes, i love hopper and was so happy when he was revealed to be alive, but how did his storyline add to the overall plot, besides giving joyce an excuse to be away from her kids? besides the demogorgan being introduced (and the mindflayer as seen in the vol 2 teaser??) the russia storyline has absolutely no impact on the vecna/hawkins storyline.

lastly: el. as much as i adore her (she is one of my favorite characters, i promise!), she gets entirely too much screen time each season. i miss the days when stranger things was an ensemble show, and the whole cast was given equal importance. remember back to s1 + s2 when the whole party had relatively equal screen time and importance to the plot? now think of s4 where mike and will were hardly on screen and dustin didn't even have a plot beyond being smart. 😐 i do love the other characters, but i really miss the core party and their dynamic.

also. yes there are WAY too many new characters that are stealing screen time from our main characters (see my jason rant above). when they're important to the plot and push the story forward (eddie, robin, etc) i don't have a problem with them. in fact, eddie is one of my new favorites! however, i don't think that new characters should constantly be added just for the sake of more characters. viewers fell in love with this show for a reason: the core characters! keep it that way moving forward!!

#this turned into a rant so sorry about that #but. many thoughts hmm #thanks for the ask!! <3 #anon tag #ask sarah #can you tell i was super bitter there was very little mike and will screen time this volume ? they better make up for that in vol 2 lol

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