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the-name-of-the-rose · 22 days

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since you seem to be really familiar with/a big fan of all three characters, what are your thoughts on Bucky/Jason and Nat/Jason as crossover ships?

(Sorry, this got super long).

Thanks anon! I love those three, and I've thought about them a lot (and now I'll be thinking even more about them :3)

Ok, so, for comics!Nat and Bucky, I wouldn't pair them with anyone else. The level of ✨soulmatism✨ between Nat and Bucky in the comics is just over the fucking roof and I can't see those two with anyone else. The story they have together is very precious to me.

(As a side note, I love the idea of a friendship between Jason and Nat and Bucky.)

Ok, now the rest of the post involves MCU Bucky and Natasha.

For MCU Nat and Bucky, I like a lot of ships. I mean, MCU Buckynat wasn't even my first ship for either of them (I'm very much into Clintasha, and though I've never been in the depths of the Stucky fandom, I do have eyes and also like that ship. I also think that Nat/Steve can be interesting, and even Nat/Bruce, though I don't exactly like how it was handled in the movies).

I think there's potential for both crossover ships. Because all of these characters know what's to be “on the side of the angels” and “on the other side” as well, and they are also used to making difficult decisions that others aren't willing to make (especially Jason and Natasha). In addition, these three all have committed crimes and sometimes terrible acts while having three different levels of agency:

Bucky was brainwashed and mind-controlled for decades. He's done things he had no control whatsoever over. He was made into a weapon and had no choice in it.

Natasha was brainwashed, but not mind-controlled (at least if we go by Yelena telling Nat in Black Widow (2021) that what she went through was different from the mind-control potion thing the Red Room was dosing the widows with). She was made into a weapon, had no choice in it—until she did, and she chose to stop being used.

Jason did the stuff he did without having been brainwashed or under mind-control (while I do think Talia had some influence over his choices post-resurrection, I think he wouldn't have ended up in a much different path without her). He made himself into a weapon.

I also love how all three of them are not “good victims”. Bucky and Natasha are more interested in redeeming themselves than Jason (he doesn't see himself as needing to, and good for him), but none of them are into the “turning the other face” bullshit. They go after their abusers and fuck them up! Good for them! (except Jason isn’t allowed to do that lol because fuck DC, but the spirit is there!)

And obviously, there are the Bucky/Jason parallels in that they were dead/believed to be dead and came back “changed” and the people who knew them before “don't recognize them anymore” and that's a source of angst for both of them! (And also the meta-parallels between them, having been brought back in the same year in the comics, among other things). They would get each other IF they could talk to each other (and getting there would be a hassle lol but great angst).

Those similarities and differences make good shipping material, I think. Plus there are so many options for putting Jason and Nat or Jason and Bucky as initial allies or enemies and then building up their relationship from that. I love it!

For example:

I love the idea of Bucky or Natasha being hired by Talia to be one of Jason’s teachers in Lost Days.

Jason getting caught by Hydra and meeting Bucky there (the whump and angst potential for them both!!!!)

Problems faced in the MCU storyline leading Bucky or Nat to Gotham and more or less the only vigilante who’s actually willing to work with them is Red Hood.

Somehow Red Hood gets tangled into Red Room or Hydra business.

Post-Thanos Snap™ and either Bucky (who hasn’t been deleted, of course) or Nat sometimes help in Gotham because the vigilante:rogue ratio of people snapped there was unbalanced and Batman’s having some difficulty so he can’t be picky about who’s going to help and they meet Jason there OOOOR Jason is the one that ends up with the Avengers (but not exactly affiliated) because he’s looking for someone who will accept his help (I have some ideas for this AU, and Bruce’s soooooo toxic in this AU that for Jason to work in Gotham is impossible, JL also wouldn’t accept his help, so he ends up looking for other heroes/vigilantes).

Now, I'll admit that I've given more thought to NatJay than BuckyJay simply because she’s my favorite, and consequently I also know more about her than Bucky, and I've thought more about her. I actually have the beginnings of a NatJay fic drafted.

I like the parallels between Natasha and Jason regarding their “found family”. Both “families” are toxic as hell, where the “parents” did horrible shit (yeah, Melina and Alexey are arguably worse in general, but the stuff Bruce does to his children (and, yeah, to Jason in particular) is also so so damaging. But both groups of characters also have the “there was love there, it didn’t change anything” vibe that I just love lol.)

I also like the inversion of roles they have regarding their siblings: Jason’s the younger one (considering Dick only, yes, but that’s the only sibling relationship I’m interested in for Jason… (and maybe Damian, but that’s depending on the AU)) and Natasha’s the older one. Makes for interesting interactions between/with the supporting cast (ahem Yelena and Dick lol).

They would be terrifying together. They have the potential to make each other better, but also to make each other worse! (Also applicable to BuckyJay).

Anyway, sorry for the wall of text, but the tl;dr is that I like both BuckyJay and NatJay (and them as an OT3 too!)

#asks answered #bucky barnes #jason todd #natasha romanoff #winter soldier #red hood #black widow #bucky barnes/jason todd #natasha romanoff/jason todd #widowhood #winterhood

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romanovftedelgard · 3 years

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"Melina is as bad as Alexei because she betrayed nat and yelena to-" 🔫🔫

Alexei only wanted glory and to help his country, everything he did, everything he went through was willingly. He made Yelena and Natasha go back to the Red Room willingly, even when Natasha begged him not to. Only because he loved his country more than he loved his daughters.

Melina on the other hand was a victim, she went through everything both Nat and Yelena went through MORE THAN ONCE, she didn't join the Red Room willingly, Dreykov didn't care about her more than any other widow, to him she was just another puppett.

Meanwhile Alexei was his little lap dog licking his ass everywhere he went only because he thought Dreykov could get him back to his glory days as the Red Guardian. It's true that Dreylov didn't care about him either but he didn't strip Alexei of his innocence, he didn't make Alexei do anything he didn't want to do, Alexei did everything to please him just to get what he wanted. Including giving up his "daughters".

Did he "redeem himself"? Yeah, kind of.

But Melina went against the only thing she ever known in her life, the Red Room and Dreykov, for her daughters and for herself too, she quite literally made the Red Room fall to the ground.

With this I am not saying that Alexei never cared about Natasha or Yelena, he did, but not until it was too late. Even telling them that all the trauma they have gone through made them better and that he was proud of all the red in their ledger, something Natasha has always hated.

To finish up, saying that Alexei and Melina are the same because Melina also betrayed nat and yelena is just wrong, one did it willingly, the other was the only thing she knew in her life

#natasha romanoff #marvel #black widow #natasha romanov #yelena belova #white widow #mcu #melina vostokoff #alexei shostakov #red guardian

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