Discussing 'A Fire Upon the Deep' after reading - with Javik
<Tines>
Spoilers everywhere ↓ *translated by Deepl
Tines:
He noticed that I loved the Tines. After all, I’d just figured out the concept of the Tines. I enjoyed the vividness of the author's descriptions, the switching of points of view, the silky smooth way in which the concept of the Tines was introduced…
"Wait!" he said. "I don't think they'll be able to compete with single organic beings like us. They need at least four 'packs' to form an intelligent soul, that's a big weakness."
He paced. "But these 'group minds' can observe far more than we can with their radios, and it can manoeuvre multiple devices at once while wielding up to eight weapons. It would have to be reduced to only three 'packs' on the battlefield before it could possibly be disabled, a formidable opponent indeed." He turned his head, "HF sound wave! It must use its radios to disperse into small units, jamming them will turn it back into individual organs. The physiology that relies on high frequency vibrations to think outside the body is also its great weakness."
I flipped through the book, pointing out that they were still in the Middle Ages, the potential of their race left much to be imagined: such as the triadic work cycle model depicted in the book; those massive walls of bodyguards composed of endless tines 'packs'…
He lifted his head, "Yes, with cloning they can achieve immortality by simply replacing 'packs', much easier to achieve than us monoliths. They can also use it to make multiple copies of themselves."
Yes, but we have cloning technology too. I was thinking about Shepard's clone…
"Is that Shepard's own personality?" Javik denied it, Our monolithic clones can’t achieve that with enough accuracy, but the Tines might have been able to."
I can easily imagine them preserving their own personalities by replacing cloned 'packs' and freezing the 'packs' with their own memories, much easier indeed than the technology of human cloning.
There were examples in the Middle Ages of them living for hundreds of years - 'Pilgrim' and 'Woodcarver', a race that could touch immortality too easily.
"Living too long is not a good thing." Javik's eyes flashed dangerously, "Class entrenchment, corruption, monopolies - a society like that won't last long. Eternal domination is nothing but a nice fantasy. Even our leaders need to be replaced with new blood on a regular basis."
It occurs to me that their packs are only capable of animal-level thinking, does that inhibit the Prothean’s ability to sense touch?? Interesting, very interesting. Javik, can you envision the cycle of the Tines ruling the galaxy?
He shook his head, “I don’t see them having that potential, and they probably don’t taste good, with so little flesh. We Protheans would not approve of their ascension. But their social structures are worth maintaining an observatory in orbit around their home planet."
There was some awkwardness in the air as he avoided the subject, so I resumed my reading.
The medieval Queen of Tines was an artist, she could paint and sculpt, so… what style of music might they have? Did the diaphragms of the 'packs' produce any frequencies or particular rhythms?
Javik scoffed, "Sound is their outward thought, do you think they'd turn themselves into a bunch of animals just for the pleasure of sound art?" He laughed in a deep voice. "Hmmmmmmm… that's a good point. All that crazy 'electronic music' in your human pubs could easily kill them!"
This Prothean suggested to me in the worst possible way that 'music' might not exist for the Tines.
"Zones of Thought"
The concept of 'Zones of Thought' in this book was so vague that I didn't enjoy it very much. How well Tines was written, how badly the 'Zones of Thought' was written, and I couldn't immerse myself in that aspect of the book. As with the 'Blight', it is vague and unclear as to how the ultimate threat will be subdued.
His knowledge of this can only be based on my reading experience. But he reviewed it anyway.
"This super-intelligence, 'Blight', can take control of human-level organisms, make the Skroders rebel… It works a bit like the Reapers." He leaned against the sink, "But it's just high-level AI without a body, at least we don't have to use our bodies to fight it. And the Internet isn't much of a problem for us Protheans, either."
Yes, you Protheans don't trust machines. You don’t rely on them too much. I sort of wanted to retort, but… ah… the author had not simply described exactly how 'Blight' infiltrates and controls humans.
"Exactly, I need to know how they do it first, so I can figure out how to counter it." He said: "Let's stop this, there's no point in discussing it further. Besides, no one in my galaxy can exceed the speed of light."
Well, don't you think it's possible that we could use the 'Zones of Thought' to control the Reapers? I asked.
"If it does exist, then the Reapers are the ones who did it to us first." Javik closed his eyes. "They're far beyond our technology."
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Nice, glad that it's a possibility! I know he's not the most popular villain, but it'd ne neat to see something with Clayton from Tarzan. Maybe him coming across tiny people while hunting? Could be one person or multiple, maybe evena whole village.
A Small New Species
This was so much fun to write! Thank you for the suggestion!
You weren't the only being of your size in the vast jungle. There were others, but you tended not to stay too close.
For survival.
You were quiet and preferred things to stay that way.
The larger beings, like gorillas, frightened you.
Especially the hairless one. Those blue eyes sparked with a dangerous curiosity.
There were too many close calls with that creature.
It was the worst day when you discovered that there are more creatures like him. And they were even more curious than the original.
The biggest one terrifies you.
He carried a long stick that sounded like thunder.
It killed things with ease.
You decided to call the big one Thunder-Stick. The smaller male was Shiny Eyes and the female one was The Female.
They all were too curious for your taste.
But they had food...
You like food.
You spent days stalking their odd-shaped caves, learning their patterns and habits.
You didn't want to get trapped in their sack of food.
Nor did you want to hear Thunder-Stick's footsteps get louder.
Your stomach turned as the world around you move.
He picked up the sack.
You couldn't help the squeak come out of your mouth.
"What do we have here?" a voice boomed around you, "Another varmit?"
Your world got turned upside down as something grabbed your leg and pulled you out of the sack.
You scratched at the hand that grabbed you, survival instincts kicking in.
A warm hand wrapped around you, trapping your arms to your side.
The color drained from your face as you were eye to eye with Thunder-Stick.
He looked...delighted to see you.
You went from being in his hand to being in a hard, invisible hut.
He put you in a glass jar.
You hit the smooth clear walls around you, scared and confused.
He looked at you with greedy eyes, "Looks like we don't even need the gorillas. I've found a little gold mine right here!"
You didn't know what those noises meant, but you doubt it was good.
Maybe if you tried to repeat the noises, he'd leave you alone.
"Right here! Right here!" you shouted, hoping you didn't just seal your death sentence.
Thunder-Stick froze, looking at you with wide eyes. "Did you just speak?"
"Did you just speak?" you mimicked. You had no idea if this was working, but you weren't dead yet, so this may work out in your favor.
He looked at you with an evil grin. "Speak."
"Speak."
You really just wanted to get out of this weird cave thing.
He put you on a tall flat log, smiling wide. "Wait right here, little gold mine."
"Gold mine?" you say, tilting your head in confusion.
He was walking away, leaving you all alone.
You pounded against the glass yelling the sounds he said. "Speak! Mine! You! Gold! Gold! Right here!"
Frustrated tears formed in your eyes as you sink to the floor.
You only wanted some food... not to be trapped and make weird noises to giant creatures with loud sticks.
You don't know how long you were alone in a clear prison, but Thunder-Stick stormed into the odd cave and grabbed you.
He put you in a large wooden chest and shut it, leaving you in darkness.
You banged against the glass, screaming to get out.
A loud bang silenced you.
There was now a hole in the wooden chest.
He almost shot you...
You tremble in fear as you curl into yourself. You didn't dare make another sound.
Even your sobs were silent.
The world around you went quiet, too quiet.
You hear rustling after a while. Some odd sounds and clicks echoed through your ears.
It was the Female. She was communicating with someone.
Maybe she would help you!
"Gold?" you said nervously, "Speak! You! Right here!"
You squinted as light flooded your vision. You cover your eyes and curl up, immediately regretting your decision.
The world around you moved and you refused to uncover your eyes.
"What on Earth?" the Female said.
You then hear a noise that made your stomach drop. Why? Out of all the creatures in this damn jungle was he there.
Why was the hairless gorilla there?
You peek from between your fingers and your stomach turns. Both the hairless gorilla and the Female were staring at you.
"Oh, you poor thing! What on Earth was Clayton thinking, putting such a fragile creature in a jar?"
She takes the lid off the jar and gently takes you out.
Only for the hairless gorilla to snatch you from her hand with a tight grip.
You scream and flail in his grasp. You fruitlessly punch on his fingers, not enjoying this at all.
The Female makes some more noises in a calm soft tone, but the hairless gorilla ignored her and ran out of the cloth caves with you still in his hand.
You still try to escape him, not wanting to be in this situation at all.
He runs away from the cloth caves, the Female chasing after him. He runs deeper into the jungle and starts to climb a tall sturdy tree. He flops down on a thick branch.
To your surprise, he put you down.
He bent down to your eye level, looking at you with those big curious blue eyes. He pushes you with his finger, causing you to stumble and fall back with a pained cry.
You stagger back until your back hits the trunk of the tree. You were confused, hungry, and scared.
The hairless gorilla places a pile of nuts and seeds in front of you before climbing back down the tree.
You weren't going to let good food go to waste, and you were certainly not going back to that awful cloth cave hell.
You stuff as much food as you can in your mouth before walking away from the hairless gorillas, definitely planning on telling the others to stay the hell away from that place
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