#this is essentially fic i guess? in the most generous sense. not really meta
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Road trip with the Bells Hell's! Who's driving, who's in front, who has control of the music, who insists they stop every 10 minutes for photos? Etc. Etc.
My genuine apologies for this answer also being a million years late. Here's hoping you see this answer somehow.
anyway, im honestly pretty bad at these kinds of modern-au fanfic style hypotheticals. (my brain is kind of bad at putting the characters into alternative universes?), so im not really going to claim accuracy to characters here. but some rough, purely-for-fun thoughts, assuming a modern AU with like. A car. multiple cars. I started just vibing with it by the end, so its a bit long. enjoy?
- Orym drives at least a part of it, of course! That said, he actually doesn't drive the bulk of it- he spends a nice amount of time sticking his face out the window and enjoying the ride. Napping while leaning against Fearne. Makes sure people are hydrated and stretch their legs, but ideally chills out too. ideally. (its so hard for me to imagine orym in a modern setting, much less an orym without his hypervigilant survivors guilt and protective instincts going haywire. orym on a roadtrip mostly makes me want him to be relaxing a little, Orym PLEASE).
- Ashton actually drives a solid chunk, and is also one of the primary people to ensure there are sufficient stops for people to get out and stretch their legs, uses the bathroom, gets food, and also has some absolutely wild fixes for carsickness that??? work????? he'd be instigating rowdy car games the rest of the time, maybe napping.
- F.C.G found a manual on roadtrips and is SO excited about it. He's figured out optimal times for breaks based on human needs and also Every Single Significant Landmark from here to there. His desire for Exact Breaks and constant enquiring is tempered by Ashton's pretty-solid instincts for these things, but they DO end up stopping for all the landmarks and photo ops. Its for all of them, obviously (its for F.C.G).
- This is okay because Laudna is ALSO extremely excited about these landmarks and photo ops. Look at those WILD ROCK FORMATIONS!!!!!! Look at this ghost town! Wow!!!!!!! :O :D Laudna is excited to drive, but I'm not sure she does so for very long. she also does puppet shows to help pass the time during travel.
- Fearne is also benefitted by the frequent stops. and the puppet shows. its not that she gets antsy but... she gets a little antsy. everyone is in the car with her. you know. she has a good time though! she also offers to drive. the offer is not accepted.
- Look, lets be real, Imogen might have a pretty rough time stuck in SUPER close prox (car if we're putting them in modern times) with everyone, as much as she might love them. Im almost certain that due to the universe's love for tormenting her she would be more prone to carsickness. sorry imogen. that said, everyone's collective efforts probably even it out somewhat. she ends up in shotgun out of kindness, and probaboy has a lovely time at the stops and seeing the wilderness and whatnot. maybe less fond of tourist traps.
- Chetney calls shotgun based on seniority, but throughout the trip ends up ceding it to the others who might benefit from it- Imogen if she needs the space, Ashton if the squished backseats and touching are doing a number on him, Fearne for her height. He also drives for a portion, citing that he doesn't want the whippersnappers to drive them to their deaths (and giving everyone a break as needed). He WILL complain about everyone else's music taste but lets them change it around.
- I have no idea about the aux honestly. Driver gets dibs but usually ends up ceding it to someone. They cycle through everyone's music. It is usually drowned out by rowdy behaviour and excitement unless everyone is napping. Then Imogen or Orym's music gets put on because Ashton and Chetney's would be too aggressive for that and Laudna and Fearne's scares people slightly. F.C.G's playlist is just top 20 pop hits and whatever Dancer would have listened to. Disaster lesbian stuff probably.
- Roadtrip games include:
-- various forms of fuck marry kill verging from hilarious (gus is IN A RELATIONSHIP), to concerning/trauma based (should we be suggesting delilah here????), to deeply philosophical (can you fuck ruidus as a concept?).
-- i spy but with multiple arbitrary rules tacked on
-- ghost stories (no one said it was ONLY a campfire tradition)
-- a few rounds of what the fuck is up with that
-- therapy session probably
-- "can you light this on fire?" a game suggested by Fearne and immediately vetoed by everyone, the cowards
-- rowdy and excitable singing
- This is a modern au so i guess they won't be attacked by monsters but they need to have at least 1 flat or something during the trip. it all works out though.
-- chetney has one of those travel sets of chess with meticulously carved pieces. half of the party doesn't know how to play chess. its very fun.
-- puppet shows. IMPROVISED puppet shows. its a disastsr.
- oh my god the stories that pop up from the rest stops they visit though
#i did a very long drive to somewhere recently so i might be pulling from that rather than a proper roadtrip but i hope i got the vibes down#i think the bells hells would be kind of stressful to travel with but also like. surprisingly good about accomodating people so it evns out#and the number of people who would be mindful of travel logistics and everyones comfort is. surprisingly high!#critical role#bell's hells#spar speaks#ask away!#this is essentially fic i guess? in the most generous sense. not really meta#my fic#fanfic#shitpost
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TBATD Chapter 21 Note
~spoilers abound~
So here’s the thing about this ending:
I’ve had it planned from, essentially, the moment I came up with this AU.
I’ve been second-guessing it since that moment.
My personal struggle with this chapter (and, to some extent, the previous three) is because the focus of the plot shifts somewhat--for most of the fic we’ve been firmly with Katara, on how she adjusts to her life in the Fire Nation and her relationship with Zuko. And now the culmination of the plot is essentially on Zuko becoming Fire Lord and Aang becoming the Avatar--which, to be fair, is what happens in canon, too. In my version, Katara also doesn’t technically win her fight with Azula. And up until literally five hours ago, she didn’t fight Azula, because I assumed that Aang would go into the Avatar state in a rage the moment Katara was threatened with lightning, and I was concerned that reducing Katara to a healing role was kinda sexist. Then my dumb ass remembered that I established earlier in the fic that Aang actually does have legit control over the Avatar state in my fic because he’s been working on it for ~two years and it’s totally fine for Katara and Azula to have more back-and-forth until Aang decides to step in.
SO. My worries about internalized sexism have been somewhat assuaged, but I had already written out a shit-ton of meta about this ending so I’m just going to keep at it. Basically I dithered over this for months, but the fundamental ending never actually changed. Every time I tried to think of alternate endings, I came back to the real catalyst for this fic, which is Iroh’s insight from The Old Masters:
Even if I did defeat Ozai--and I don’t know that I could--it would be the wrong way to end the war. History would see it as just more senseless violence, a brother killing a brother to grab power. The only way for this war to end peacefully is for the Avatar to defeat the Fire Lord…Someone new must take the throne. An idealist with a pure heart and unquestionable honor.
I mentioned this way back in my first chapter note; when I sat down to write this fic, I decided I wanted to change the established world as little as possible. I wanted Katara and Zuko to have all of the issues with each other they had in canon. I wanted the essential position of the Fire Nation and the South Pole to be the same. I wanted their friendships and familial relationships to be the same. I even tried to keep Zuko’s field trips! And I wanted Iroh to still be right about the politics of this slightly altered world.
Throughout the fic, I’ve touched on the ramifications of Iroh’s decision to kill his brother, in his relationship with Zuko, in Azula’s response (albeit hidden until like… now), in the Earth Kingdom and Water Tribes’ perception of the Fire Nation, and a little bit in the Fire Nation’s perception of him as a ruler. Basically, he’s not trusted, nationally or internationally. And while Katara is, in my canon, very very well-liked, there are still some political limitations for her as a princess. So she can’t fix it until she’s Fire Lady--and she can’t be Fire Lady until her husband is the Fire Lord. Hence, Zuko becoming the Fire Lord takes a little bit of the focus in these later chapters.
Annnnnd then we get to the other part of Iroh’s statement, which is that the Avatar needs to be the one to end the war. Yeah. I think, if anything, that’s even more true in my fic than in canon. Think about it from the POV of, say, an Earth Kingdom general: “So, you’re telling me that they’ve had five Fire Lords in the last ~10 years, the first one died under mysterious circumstances after conveniently elevating his second son to the throne, the second one was killed extrajudicially by his brother, the third one was also accused of killing his nephew and abdicated to the fourth, who was then accused of being behind aforementioned assassination and was then usurped by the fifth one in a brawl that’s apparently totally legal by their standards… and I’m supposed to trust these people to be my friends?”
Somehow, I can’t see that working out. But the Avatar stabilizes things. The Avatar brings balance to the world, and is a neutral third party who can truly broker the peace… if and only if the people recognize his authority. Aang, in the world of this fic, disappeared for a hundred years, came back, died, came back again, and has been dicking around for two years while the adults solved all the problems. In canon, the world needed Zuko to be a good Fire Lord and Aang to be a fully realized and respected Avatar in order to achieve a true peace, and I felt that this fic needed those two things too.
I know that, since Aang didn’t appear for a big chunk of this fic, it might seem like a bit of a cop-out, but… I always felt energybending was a bit of a cop-out in canon, too. Sure, it makes sense when you know the broader context, but there was verrrrry little foreshadowing in the show itself prior to the series finale–and least for this fic you had the foreshadowing of canon!
Yes, that does mean that Katara doesn’t WIN-win the agni kai in this fic, but tbh I don’t know if she has to? Something I appreciate about Katara’s growth in the show is that, in Book One, her waterbending abilities and her access to combat instruction are really her main hangups… and then they’re not. From Book Two on, she is recognized as an unquestionable waterbending master and one of the most competent benders in the world, and she feels comfortable in that role--her conflict in the remainder of the show is more about her personal relationships and her “dark side,” so to speak.
The agni kai is a fitting end for her storyline in canon because it happens during the comet, when she should be at a massive disadvantage. Take that away, and like… yeah, Katara beat somebody. What else is new? I don’t think she has to prove her worth in this universe. She’s been living in the Fire Nation, which is comfortable with female fighters and doesn’t assume she’s weak… and she’s been earning a reputation as a total BAMF for the last couple of months.
Katara’s conflicts in this fic have been on those other insecurities: whether bloodbending is wrong, if her anger or resentment are justified, how she fits into this new home, how she connects with her old one, her relationship with Zuko. So the fact that she has showed up, that she’s publicly defended the nation, that she risked her life to save Zuko, those are all things she gets “credit” towards and things that wrap up her main character growth. Katara ending this fic as an incredibly popular Fire Lady with a strong, stable marriage is a win from my perspective.
BONUS: this was my favorite ending for Azula.. I am working on a follow-up fic that will follow Azula. I’ll be upfront with y’all in saying that it is not finished and will not be up for a few months, at LEAST. (The reason I was able to update this fic every two/three days is because I spent four months writing it w/o posting a word.) I always kind of wished we’d seen Azula’s breakdown drawn out a little more in canon, and I was reeeeaaaaally pissed when I saw how Azula was treated in the beginning of The Search. When I considered Azula’s end in this fic (and how she might progress in a follow-up fic), I thought long and hard about what rock bottom would really look like for her, specifically what kind of issues she might be dealing with instead of the generic “craziness” that is treated pretty terribly in the comics, and what recovery would look like.
I think being without her firebending is unquestionably Azula’s rock bottom. Her identity as a prodigy means everything to her. From her perspective, she’s never really been loved by her mother or her uncle or Zuko–it’s all been Ozai, and his love has been predicated on her success. In canon, she got a glimpse of how easily Ozai would turn his back on her, and that’s her real breaking point; in this fic, she never got that, so while she has been dealing with grief in a pretty terrible, unhealthy way, her real breaking point is the loss of The Thing that ties her to her father.
But I think that also offers her the best chance for true recovery and redemption, because it strips her of the delusion that she is perfect and untouchable and doesn’t actually need love. Azula defines herself by her success, and what is she without success? She would say nothing; Katara, Zuko, et al, would say you’re still a person, actually, still a human being deserving of respect and love and forgiveness. My version of energybending and recovery is going to be a bit different than how it plays out in LoK, because Selective Death of the Author, and I think her recovery of her bending in my way will parallel her recovery in general quite nicely.
So. that’s a lot of meta for an ending I changed halfway through. I have spent so much time thinking about this fic and it’s truly been a joy, even when it’s been a pain in the ass. Thank you all so much for sticking with me.
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Dear Yuletide writer,
I’m 100indecisions on AO3. just based on numbers of requests/offers in the signup summary, it seems fairly likely that you matched with me on Avengers Academy, but it’s also slightly possible it was Silent Hill 3 or The Bifrost Incident. numbers also indicate nobody else requested or offered my other two fandoms, but I’m including them here anyway in case you or anyone else wants to take a stab at them. (there’s also this post if you want a little more info about why these fandoms are cool and where to find them.)
regardless! the important thing as always is that you have fun writing the fic, and for the most part everything that follows is just a suggestion. whatever you come up with, I’m sure I’ll love it.
I feel like…most of the fandoms I requested aren’t too likely to lead to fics with my major DNWs, probably. I wouldn’t want to see dubcon or significant manipulation in a relationship that’s supposed to be positive and healthy, for instance. I’m not opposed to explicit sex scenes of any kind, although I often end up skimming them because I’m the type of ace person who is just Not Interested in most of the physical aspects, so…you’re welcome to write sex scenes if it’s relevant but you absolutely don’t have to feel like you need to.
in general, my biggest DNW is unhappy endings. I’m thrilled to see my favorite characters go through all kinds of hell to get there, so for most of these I would be very happy to get something tagged Crueltide, but I also like things to be okay or at least hopeful by the end. if canon is the unhappy part in one way or another, I’m always happy to read fix-it fics. Between post-canon fix-its that could reasonably happen in the future and canon-divergence AUs where things are okay now because of some mid-canon change, I have a slight preference for the former, but both are good.
as for stuff I like, well, the other thing implied by my main DNW is that I do often enjoy fairly dark fics, as long as they end okay. I also like Loki a lot, as you can probably guess from my requests. if you ended up matching me on Avengers Academy Loki or Bifrost Incident Loki, and/or you want to take a stab at one of the other Loki-centric requests, the Loki fics I’ve actually written are pretty representative of stuff I like in my Loki fics, which basically boils down to “sympathetic interpretations always, with loads of angst and/or whump on the way to a reasonably happy ending”. I tend to take a somewhat lighter tone in general with my Avengers Academy fics (I’ve written several of those and only one of them doesn’t involve Loki at all, so…yeah I have a one-track mind where Loki is concerned), although I did also write a pretty damn whumpy fic for AvAc Loki. I’m very invested in the relationship between Thor and Loki as brothers, although Thorki is usually a personal squick. for things that aren’t necessarily Loki-related, I like found families and deep friendships, sibling bonds, stories about characters reclaiming their own agency from some outside force and/or figuring out how to take control of their own narratives, and probably plenty of other things that aren’t coming to mind at the moment. I’m equally good with plotty fics and little slice-of-life or introspective pieces. I will always always always be happy to see queer characters, especially asexual ones.
more detail about my specific requests, basically just expanded versions of what I wrote in my sign-up:
Silent Hill 3 (Heather Mason). I love this game and that’s mostly because of Heather–she’s resourceful, brave, and incredibly tough, and the game is essentially all about her reclaiming her agency (in a very literal, physical way) from people who used her for their own ends. Anything that gets into Heather’s head would be great, whether it’s a missing scene of some kind during the game or something afterward that explores what she does next, how she recovers from a frankly massive amount of trauma, and how she reconciles the various layers of her identity. The ways in which Heather, Cheryl the child, and Alessa both are and are not the same person are endlessly fascinating to me, and it seems like she probably has a lot of weird memories bouncing around in her head at this point--and possibly some extra trauma from Alessa’s memories of things Heather never physically experienced, as if she doesn’t have enough to deal with already. I would also really love to see something involving Angela and/or Maria from Silent Hill 2; I’m not sure how the timelines would line up (although realistically, considering the setting, that part would be trivial to handwave) but the way Heather basically said “fuck you, you don’t own me” to the cult makes me want to see other female characters find their own agency as well, and it would be really awesome if Heather found a way to help them do that, either by helping them directly or just by influencing the way the town operates. in general, I love these games for their atmosphere and symbolism, so anything you can do along those lines would be great.
Avengers Academy (Loki, Thor). I still miss this game. I especially miss Loki, who was a snarky little bastard but really not a bad dude. Mostly I’d be thrilled to see anything that focuses on him (or her, I super loved Loki’s canonical genderfluidity) developing actual friendships at the academy, with any characters who might be relevant (Steve, Natasha, America Chavez, Nebula, Union Jack, Angela, Jane Thor, really anybody). Working things out with Thor and/or the rest of his family is always good too; Loki’s Frost Giant storyline didn’t involve Thor at all, for instance, probably because it was written long before Thor was added to the game, so I’d be interested to see how things went when he found out his brother was a Frost Giant. I’m also always happy to see crossovers of some kind with other Marvel universes, especially considering AvAc was an interesting patchwork of film and comics canon; meta stuff where characters are aware of their multiverse counterparts is always fun (again, my own AvAc fics are pretty representative of what I like…and if you wanted to build off anything in those, I’d be thrilled). and hey, if you want to pick up or expand on any of the plot threads the game never really got around to, like more about the Academy’s supposed mole, the actual nature and origin of the timefog, or other worldbuilding-related stuff, that would be awesome. random slice-of-life stuff is also fun; so is expanding on any of the event plotlines or digging into in-world reasons for various gameplay decisions (way back during the Civil War event, for instance, Loki was one of the characters who could do stuff to earn points for Team Cap even though this didn’t come up in dialogue--it was almost certainly because they needed another non-event character to round out the rosters, but it would also make a fun premise for a fic). I’d also be happy to see something post-canon, showing what characters are up to now or doing some kind of reunion. I’m realizing somewhat belatedly that last year I only requested Loki because that’s the character I wanted most, and this year I requested both Loki and Thor even though my actual wishes haven’t changed, which...I’m not sure if that’s a potential matching problem or not. But just to be clear, the only character I require is Loki, and everything else is basically a suggestion. If there’s a character I haven’t listed but Loki had an interesting interaction with them, or they never spoke but you think they’d play off each other in fun ways, go for it.
The Bifrost Incident - The Mechanisms (Loki, Thor, Sigyn). I...need a fix-it. Like, for these characters specifically, but also for the universe in general, because the premise of this album is absolutely fascinating but I can't deal with tragedy, so--I need somebody to fix it. Somehow. I mean, I would also be very interested in pretty much anything about Loki and Sigyn, backstory or otherwise (especially if there’s Loki whump due to cosmic horror in general or Odin being a dick specifically, because...I am who I am), or Loki’s relationship with Thor, or...yeah, pretty much anything Loki-centric? But also I am a baby who cannot deal with tragedy so I gotta have like...at least a hint that things are going to end up differently than in canon. Or if you really don’t want to do that, speculate on this universe’s version of Valhalla or something, I don’t know. And yes, even though this isn’t a Marvel universe, I would also be very happy with some type of crossover/fusion with the MCU or another Marvel universe.
Loki: Where Mischief Lies - Mackenzi Lee (Loki). I had a lot of issues with this book and I’m not sure how much of that is just me not appreciating what the author was doing with an unreliable narrator (in part because I’m already pretty attached to certain interpretations of Loki) and how much is the author not quite doing it right, but I’d love to see something that would…make it make sense internally in terms of Loki’s motivations and actions. It doesn’t necessarily have to be a fix-it, although I’d love one of those too, with Loki reuniting with Theo and/or actually reconciling with his family. A giant crossover that includes this Loki with other major versions of Loki could be fun too. I’ve been planning for a while to write up some kind of actual review to articulate what about this book didn’t work for me, and I’ll update this post with a link when I do that, although…again, I know nobody else offered or requested this one. (if you think it sounds fun or you just want to read this book in general, my library actually has the ebook on Hoopla, so it’s worth checking to see if your library does too.)
What If... Thor Was Raised by the Frost Giants? (Loki, Thor). This is such a great little AU and I need MORE. Slice-of-life stuff with Thor and Loki growing up (and Laufey being an abusive bastard to Loki)? Fix-it where Freyja survives or somehow gets brought back? Post-canon fic picking up immediately after the end of the comic? Far-future speculation about what the present-day Marvel universe might look like with this change in its history? Literally anything post-canon about Thor and Loki tentatively reconciling? YES PLEASE. As always, biggest DNW is unhappy endings.
#yuletide 2020#yuletide#avengers academy#silent hill 3#the bifrost incident#loki: where mischief lies#marvel comics#look at me doing my Yuletide letter in a reasonable timeframe for once#mostly because...the majority of this was copied from last year's but whatever#marvel what if
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gigantic homestuck liveblog post
hello. I hope to god that tumblr’s readmore function works across platforms because otherwise this may just be the worst thing I ever inflicted on anyone’s dashboard in the history of this hellsite
warnings for my pure, unadulterated opinions (including relentless character-hate for characters that I personally do not like), spoilers for literally everything, reading the epilogues in the most asinine order possible, and the same content warnings that were given at the beginning of the epilogues themselves
general thoughts: i liked some of it, didnt like some of it. the parts that i didn't like would have been more bearable if they literally weren’t painful to read. i’m of the opinion that, while things dont have to be daisies and roses all the time, i don’t want to have a completely horrible reading experience when things aren’t daises and roses.
other complaints: part of homestuck’s appeal is its amazing cast of girls, and they were severely under-utilized. also, i had to see gamzee again.
but, like i said. i liked some of it. a lot of it, in fact. i did think it kept with the spirit of homestuck in that it made me feel every single human emotion possible.
I had a lot of Feelings while reading, and if I went into all of them here, I might as well write out some meta to flesh out the 2.5 concrete thoughts I had while reading, but I’m not going to do that. instead, i’m going to dump my several-thousand-words of live reactions here so that no one has the patience to parse out what the hell i’m talking about. because I just spent a total of 21 hours reading this and I am so incredibly braindead.
MEAT 1
Okay I’m clicking on ‘meat’ first. I’m so scared LMAO I’m not ready for this.
Gross. This is already very upsetting.
MEAT 2
Lmao WHAT
FUCK. Dave this is NOT ALLOWED.
Homestuck is very very good actually
Alright I’m going to have to stop screenshotting every single thing I find funny or else I am never going to get through this
I Love You Dave Strider
This is so fucking weird to say and I have no idea what the psychology is behind it but reading homestuck always makes me weirdly ambitious…like reading about dave doing shit like making comics and motivating karkat to run for president makes ME want to do shit.
also the biggest mystery in homestuck is that people like jake English
MEAT 3
The fridge pops open and out roll Aranea and Gamzee. Gamzee honks and his codpiece jiggles ominously. Aranea staggers to her feet, looking rather pleased with herself.
Fucking gross.
JOHN PUNCHED ARANEA
Waaaaay back in the day “aranea gets punched in the face” was on my homestuck bingo card, back when we all thought the comic was gonna end after the gigapause or whatever it was called
Also is this going to be in fic form the whole time because if so I’m going to have a hell of a time concentrating long enough to finish this in one go
You wisely decide that this clown will lend nothing valuable to the narrative whatsoever if he is allowed to remain outside of your childhood refrigerator. You put both hands on his chest and shove him into the fridge where he belongs. He goes easily, issuing only a pair of weak honks in protest. You slam the fridge shut and resolve to never think about Gamzee Makara again.
Bye bitch
I know you’re going to be back soon but still
(also I skimmed the first few pages of the candy epilogue and it looks like gamzee might have some relevance in that one too. Homophobic if true.)
MEAT 4
Oh jesus fuck I just remembered caliborn’s stop-motion Claymation thing where all the kids die. And now john’s gathering them all up. This is going to fucking SUCK isn’t it
MEAT 5
Lmao
Jake can’t help but watch the motion, raking his eyes over the muscles shifting beneath the skin of Dirk’s neck and arms.
Calm your fucking boner dude
Also dirk is ripped apparently
With a casual flick of his wrist, Dirk snaps out a bright red tranquilizer handgun and shoots Jake in the neck. Jake’s glasses crack when he hits the mat.
What the fuck
MEAT 6
You wonder. Do you see these teen versions of your friends as “real”? Are you treating them, at Rose’s behest, as simple puppets? Doing your part to insist they fill friend-shaped recesses in an essential plan to stabilize all else that can be considered important, a distinction no longer applying to them? Do you care at all about whatever fate it may be that you are sentencing these children to? Are you becoming as complicit in the fatalistic evils of Paradox Space as Lord English himself? Are you becoming a monster, John Egbert?
):
MEAT 7
I Love You Rose Lalonde
Also, same old Dirk, huh?
Dirk & rose conversations are some of the best but. Dirk. Dirk. He reminds me so much of myself and I constantly want to shove him into a locker.
MEAT 8
I hate how much I love caliborn. Also I am Very Afraid.
MEAT 9
The blurry, distorted face of your laughing nemesis was the last thing you saw before the chest door slammed shut and plunged you into textual obsolescence.
And here, you are now stuck. You will not emerge from this holding cell, from an outside perspective, for quadrillions of years. It is not long at all until you begin to wish you had brought something to read.
Jesus Christ
Well. At least it’s quadrillions of years “from an outside perspective.” Hopefully it won’t be THAT long for them. Maybe like, an hour?
Also john you broke your glasses. How are you supposed to read.
MEAT 10
No, surely this must have been Dave’s idea. The kind of plot hatched from their little nest of mutually supportive, codependent, interspecies... whatever it was they had going on over there.
Jane is straight-up EVIL, I guess
This what capitalism does to you, folks
Also, karkat (true leftism)
MEAT 11
This is exactly what I expected when I realized john would be overseeing a group of teens
Would you tell them about Terezi...
For some reason her name feels like nails in your heart. Makes sense, you guess, cause there’s a lot of sharp letters in it. She had sharp teeth too, and sharp elbows. Sharp words. Terezi Pyrope was a sharp girl, and maybe what these sharp feelings are trying to tell you is you miss her more than you realized.
Do NOT talk about terezi in the past tense you fucking GOON
Also if I don’t see terezi again I will fucking riot
Me like 2 years ago
MEAT 12
Asfdhkajlfh
Jade you are NOT subtle
This is oppression
Dave and karkat HAVE KISSED MULTIPLE TIMES. I will not be convinced otherwise
Jade “didn’t think Obama was a real person” Harley
Also Dave “doesn’t think Jesus was a real person” Strider
Speaking of. Where is homestuck-is-a-sin nowadays
Jade will you please chill
but also. Marry me. dave and karkat are clearly not comfy with this, but I would be very comfy with it.
MEAT 13
> Be Vriska.
Oh fuck yes
Well, that didn’t last long. Bye, vriska!
Oh fuck
God this is all so intense. I feel like I should’ve read candy first
MEAT 14
Really, the only surprise is how long it took to happen. Jane is a beautiful lady, that’s for sure. She always has been, but she’s only grown more ravishing as she’s come into the full blossom of her womanhood. Smooth, silky skin... thick, dark lashes... full, feminine lips... not to mention curves like the dickens.
This is so hard to read lmao
Jake can’t stop thinking about dirk….ouch
MEAT 15
Roooooooooose
ROSE ):
Fuck jade too
This is going pretty much as well as could be expected
Just two bros…fighting lord English…everyone dying around them…
DAVEPETA
…v…vore
Great minds
Dave ): ): ):
There was no way that wasn’t going to happen but I am. Extremely upset.
The black hole—the gaping, implacable, cosmic embodiment of the dead cherub, his long-departed sister—finally welcomes Lord English home.
Yo I’m
It’s bananas that this webcomic still manages to have a monopoly over my emotions after all these years
MEAT 16
Oh fuck
Loving the aspect talk though
Rose’s eyes have grown distant, almost mirrorlike. Dirk can see himself reflected in her vacant stare.
Oh jesus oh Christ
Oh no
FUCK OFFFF
MEAT 17
All I’m thinking about is the narration about jake watching dirk’s rippling muscles
Dirk: I heard that Dirk has an 8-pack
MEAT 18
It’s been 3 hours and I’m only on meat 18
I need a fucking drink
MEAT 19
Jade’s got this disarming combo of head-in-the-clouds flightiness and the kind of legit, down-to-earth cred that can only be earned by having done something like cutting open your own grandfather and stuffing him full of polyurethane foam.
Why is homestuck so funny
I LOVE YOU ROXY LALONDE
Fucking same
MEAT 20
What is Happening
Will these motherfuckers Please Stop trying to remove the objects that are impaled in their chest
CALLIOPE????
I am actually astounded by the amount of things I retained from homestuck even though I haven’t quite understood what’s going on for like 6 years
MEAT 21
I missed her so much
I hate this stupid fucking webcomic
Please god kick his ass kanaya
MEAT 22
Fucking owned
MEAT 23
Kanaya PLEASE kick this fools ass
MEAT 24
TEREZI
I’M GOING TO GO APE SHIT
SHE LITERALLY HASN’T SAID ANYTHING YET AND I’M LOSING MY GODDAMN MIND
I’M GOING TO VOMIT
MEAT 25
…hmmmm
I’m actually almost tempted to do this?
Like I know it would make way more sense to finish reading meat first…BUT…
I’m gonna do it lmao
CANDY 1
At each fork in the veins, he supposes the leaf as a whole is making a certain kind of “decision,” to go this way or that. It certainly seems like one way of looking at a leaf, now that he bothers to really scrutinize one. It also seems to him, with just as great a sense of clarity, that not one of this leaf’s decisions ever mattered even the tiniest fucking bit to anybody.
Alright! Great start!
Hm! I don’t like this at all!!!!
Fuck gamzee lives
CANDY 2
Sensing that this is probably something he shouldn’t be seeing, he tiptoes towards Gamzee’s would-be sarcophagus as carefully and quietly as he can, and places his hands just above the thick aluminum hull. The moment John’s palms hit the fridge, Dirk turns to look at him. His head only moves an inch.
………what the fuck
OKAY SO…JOHN’S JUST GONNA…DROP GAMZEE ON EARTH C…THIS IS FINE
Oh what the FUCK is going on
I forgot how fucking headache-inducing gamzee’s quirk is
Literally this is almost impossible for me to read for some reason
She pats him on the back, nods very slowly, issues an “mm-hm” now and then. Only while he is distracted by his own sobs does she steal a glance at her phone, tipping the fact that she too wouldn’t mind if this redemptive soliloquy could hurry itself along.
I pretty much sound like a broken record at this point but. What the actual fuck.
Gamzee stans be like
John: *sends a picture of gamzee to terezi*
Me: Gamzee Is Not Allowed to Exist In The Same Narrative Space As Terezi
“HE”….
I just realized that the narrative isn’t in second person any more
I mean…I’m assuming we’re outside of ‘canon’. Like this isn’t the ‘essential’ timeline anymore, so things are…fucking wacky, to say the least
But even in the other timelines, shit isn’t this wack
And john seems to be aware of what’s going on
So like. What’s happening.
CANDY 3
At least dirk’s bitch ass is also sweating over all this
CANDY 4
Rose opens her eyes. She stares at the knob of her wrist and frowns. She’s not sure why this sensation should be concerning. It’s not like her memory is slipping away. She remembers the conversation she had with John this morning quite clearly. As she does the previous years of declining health, and troubled, obsessive thoughts about canon, dissipation, and other such abstractions. What’s slipping away instead is the feeling that any of it mattered at all.
I have. Very mixed feelings.
Like OBVIOUSLY I don’t want rose to continue to suffer existential dread but this feels like post-retcon all over again. Which is to say, everything feels off.
But. Post-retcon was, like, canon. And post-retcon (post-game over, really) is where I kinda stopped caring about homestuck as much as I had before
And perhaps that’s just me not “getting it” but. Oh well.
Fucking OUCH dawg
Rose and kanaya…damn son…….
They were my first f/f ship ever. Can you believe that? Can you believe homestuck?
CANDY 5
She retrieves one of her bras from where it’s hanging over the back of the couch. She starts changing it right there, doing that mystical sleight of hand girls seem to be born with the knowledge of, where the bra goes off and then on again without the shirt being removed.
Very unrelatable
Now THIS is relatable
Jade CHILL
I’ve always liked the idea of jadedavekat but this shit is not fun
Karkat fucking bit her afdhlfasdkfh what the fuck
Picsthatmakeyougohmm
CANDY 6
Yall are gonna think I’m evil for saying this but how on earth are there people out there who like Jake English
Okay I took a break to eat something after 5 straight hours of reading
I bet there’s people out there who have read this shit 3 times over but I take so GODDAMN LONG to read anything
And to think. I’m an English major.
Anyway back to it I fucking guess
That’s depression, babe!
I’m heterophobic now
Do I REALLY have to read another Jake-Jane makeout sesh. Do I really.
It turns out that I don’t. thank god.
But that was all still incredibly uncomfortable
CANDY 7
In the time that I was eating I managed to forget that gamzee existed. And now I am reminded. How unfortunate.
I do not often find myself agreeing with John and only John but. Here we are.
Also I am Not Down For johnroxy. Especially with how wack everything is.
Roxy DO NOT leave john alone with this literal clown
Oh fucking Christ
HELLO?? IS THIS ALLOWED???
CANDY 8
The,, hornographer,,,
There’s a third member of their social group who definitely hasn’t arrived at the conclusion that his power and influence should be meted out responsibly either. Neither of them speak his name, however. For some reason, it feels like a shadow passing over the sun. A brief spike of pain flickers through Rose’s head, a bolt that strikes between her eyes and splinters out. There is color and light behind it. A vision that tears through the material reality in front of her and gives her a brief glimpse into a parallel reality where things are very different.
Hm! Not great!
Yes, it would be very awkward
Also, don’t even fuckin g MENTION vriska unless I get to see her
Don’t think I haven’t noticed that this epilogue has been hellishly vriskaless
Like youre gonna make me see GAMZEE MAKARA?? GAMZEE??? WHERE’S VRISKA??
CANDY 9
Jade. Jade. Jade. Fucking CHILL, jade.
CANDY 10
Get you a girl who lesbian marries one of the two remaining eligible human females
Eyes emoji
He whips his head around to see... Dave? He’s running down the street, looking back and forth like a hunted man.
Dave: *is flirted with*
Dave: *books it to an entirely different time zone*
I Love You Dave Strider
Why on EARTH are you going to john Egbert for relationship advice, though
CANDY 11
Daaaaaaave ):
CANDY 12
This is the fucking worst
I hate this so much
CANDY 13
It’s obviously a robot, but it’s a complete mess. The form is feminine, but the head is still bald, and the face has no cover, revealing its skull-like interior. The body doesn’t have any proper protective plating yet, so it’s all a mess of wires and loose mechanical bits. Clearly a work in progress. But Dave can’t help but wonder what exactly it is that Dirk’s been working on here?
Then Dave notices the note. It’s carefully folded in the limp palm of the robot’s hand. His heart jumps into his throat, and something in his stomach drops.
Oh, no.
what the fuck is this fucking robot
Also did dirk fucking kill himself
CANDY 14
We’re back in the 2nd person now for dirk’s shit
What could you accomplish in a dead-end existence like this? There are no stakes. No meaningful challenges. No structures or themes—only residual chemical reactions in a dying brain, a physical system’s obligate compulsion to exhaust its own lingering momentum.
Literally me every time I realize that life isn’t a story and I’m not a character with a heroic arc
And like I get that homestuck has been thematically interested in...well…life not being a story. And I have a feeling that these epilogues are going to cement that, with all the talk of meta/canon. And I can already tell that I’m going to be disappointed with the lack of narrative resolution
Because like…life’s not a story, okay……………but homestuck is
Anyway this fucker is really about to kill himself isn’t he
Yep…jesus.
CANDY 15
Wow this feels INCREDIBLY shitty considering. That’s exactly what happened.
I am not Feeling Great my dudes
Dave’s got his suit jacket unbuttoned and pulled over Karkat’s head to shield him from the rain. Karkat’s the one talking—his caterpillar eyebrows furrowed, but his gaze soft. Whatever he’s saying makes Dave turn his face away, but Karkat winds a hand in his shirt and tugs him in, forces him to make eye contact. They both go still, seeming to finally realize how close their faces have gotten, how Karkat’s fingers are brushing down the length of Dave’s torso. Dave dips down so that their noses are bumping.
I will NOT be distracted by this cute shit
(I am distracted by this cute shit)
Thinking about how roxy said they don’t want to have kids in meat and I’m! Not feeling great about this!
Also I hate that I have to call it ‘meat’
(also the narrator refers to roxy as ‘she’ in candy and so like. Idk which one I’m supposed to use)
CANDY 16
6 month time jump. Very relieved that I don’t have to see the johnroxy wedding
Fucking. Skullface emoji.
Asdasfasljk John don’t dump on your sister like that
Straight fucking savage though I’ll give you that
John and terezi are talking about vriska I’m going to fucking vomit
This is all I’m going to get, huh? Huh????
I’m so starved
Vrisrezi is literally the most compelling part of homestuck and it’s like. So not going to be relevant at all in the epilogue, is it
CANDY 17
Did rose and kanaya literally name their kid ‘vriska’
Like they did not have to do that
John is the only one who hasn’t lost his goddamn mind
Also the idea of someone just changing their kids name a year after they were born is. Hilarious. It’s extra hilarious when you remember that the kids didn’t get a name until they were 13.
John SNAPPED
“please come make sense at me”...This is……..A Lot
CANDY 18
Jane is still dedicated to eugenics which is like. Pretty fucking awful.
You know it’s bad when GAMZEE MAKARA argues with you about morality
Fucking GROSS
Also jake is sitting right next to them akbfdabkjknsfn
Welp! Homestuck’s over, everyone!!!! The furries won!
CANDY 19
I have been reading this goddamn webcomic for 8 goddamn hours
I’m pretty sure that I’m not even halfway through
HIS RELATIONSHIP IS A FLAMING WRECK OF AN INTERSTELLAR WARSHIP HURTLING TOWARDS THE PLANET AT TERMINAL VELOCITY WITH THE ENTIRE CREW BRUTALLY SLAUGHTERED UPON REENTRY, SHOVED STRAIGHT DOWN THE CHAGRIN TUNNEL AND THEN IMMEDIATELY SHAT OUT THE OTHER SIDE, THUS FLOODING THE ENTIRE FUCKING NEIGHBORHOOD WHEN IT CLOGS UP THE LOAD GAPER.
This is what this epilogue has been missing…karkat-isms
Yo WHAT
I probably definitely should’ve read meat all the way through but. Oh well!
I never thought that I would be glad to see a dead teenage jade fall out of the fucking sky but at least its providing a brief reprieve to feeling of absolute dread I’ve had while reading the entire candy section
Also strange that dead teenage space jade is the one thing that DOESN’T fill me with absolute dread
CANDY 20
Karkat SNAPPED
CANDY 21
I somehow managed to forget that calliope exists
Funeral TWO
As fucking rough as dirk’s suicide was, I absolutely cannot imagine him in any of these situations
Like the only narrative choices were to kill him or to lock him away in his lab w/o a single mention of him and I gotta say the former makes more sense given his characterization
):
I am. Upset.
ARADIA
Aradia please save me from this nightmare
Asdfghjlkjhgf
I changed my mind I love candy
Never mind jane’s talking about eugenics again
I’m laughing???? What the fuck is happening?????
Okay alt calliope is using dead teen space jade’s body as a vessel
Should’ve put two and two together since I got close to that part in meat but I have been reading for like 9 hours and things are starting to blur together
*heavy metal music plays*
CANDY 22
3 year time jump! Alright!
Fucking same, john
Okay so the dead trolls that got consumed by the black hole are showing up on earth c, or something?
WAIT DOES THAT MEAN LORD ENGLISH IS GONNA GET PLOPPED INTO THIS TIMELINE
idk if I’m misunderstanding but……..i am……nervous
Those are my 20-something-year-old children
Cant believe karkat rose and kanaya are in antifa :’)
Actually I can absolutely believe that
I hate this
I was 100% unprepared to see Eridan fucking Ampora in the year of our lord 2019. I’m calling the fucking police
This is the worst
Oh I Do Not Like This
CANDY 23
John was serious about the whole kidnapping thing huh
Christ almighty
SILENCE, CLOWN.
Jokes aside the child abuse is like. Very vey upsetting.
But why has this human child adopted the ‘uh,,’s of Tavros’ quirk
I think I’ve said this before but homestuck is very good, actually
Hm this shit with kid tavros is making me sick to my stomach
Also I’m approaching hour 10 and I may have to take a break for sleep soon.
But. I defo have shit to do this weekend that doesn’t involve reading homestuck
We’ll see how much longer I can stay awake, I guess
Dave said this about dirk (jake also said this about dirk, in meat) and I’m. not psyched about it.
I suppose it’s possible that gamzee retained it from dirks funeral, but still
John has his breath powers back?? Passively, at least?
And where the fuck did alt calliope go
And aradia and sollux
Unfortunately I still think it is kidnapping
Especially because you’re like, 5
):
It’s probably, like, a bad thing that I was rooting for john’s kidnapping plan to work. But.
CANDY 24
Okay theres alt calliope aradia and sollux
I am. Compromised.
Oh fuck
It’s actually kind of insane that dirk and jane are like. Straight villains. I kinda would’ve guessed w/ jane (relation to the condesce and all that) but dirk being a villain shocked the fuck out of me. it really shouldn’t have, though, considering that dirk was capable of becoming bro.
): ): ): ):
I’m actually tearing up LMAO
I can’t tell if it’s because of how much I love terezi or if it’s because I’ve been reading this for 10 hours straight
Probably both
CANDY 25
Karkat I love you
Also this is buried deep enough in this post so I think it’s safe to say w/o anyone actually reading it: when I was 14 and reading homestuck for the first time I had a crush on karkat and used to daydream about us going on a date at the county fair
I’m sorry to anyone that had to read that with their own eyeballs
Hard labor in the cake mills
Bucket jokes are dead, folks. You heard it here first.
Oh Christ I just remembered that group of cosplayers who took a bucket into a restaurant and passed it around and spit in it. Scandal of the fucking decade.
Asdfghjk KANAYA
This is only going to make things more complicated, I imagine
KARKAT: I’M ALSO FUCKING ORDERING YOU TO STOP MAKING GARBAGE FISH PUNS FOREVER.
LMAO
Okay…on that slightly…lighter note, I think it’s time to turn in for the night. I’m at the 11th hour (literally) and I’m losing my ability to pay attention to what the fuck is going on
Plus my head hurts like a motherfucker
If I remember correctly, each epilogue has 45 parts, so I’m a bit more than halfway done
I’m setting an alarm because I’m dedicated to finishing this tomorrow
CANDY 26
Okay I got my hat on backwards and I’m ready to fucking party
Even Alternia had beauty in it. But John is sure that Earth C probably replicates it the same way it replicates everything else: thin and garish and fake, fake, fakity FAKE. A bad photocopy with the ink settings turned to high contrast. A sunrise that casts no shadows.
This is not a party
Also I’m getting flashbacks to my thesis that I wrote on the left hand of darkness which never shut the fuck up about shadows and the lack thereof
A streak of teal, smudged along the top ridge of the seat cushion, at the center of a red, bloody handprint. With wide eyes, John reaches out and runs his thumb over it. It chips under his nail, the same consistency as human blood. The same color as Terezi’s text.
He rubs the flaky crust between his fingers. He only stopped talking to her a few hours ago. Time passes differently out there, as he’s often reminded. She was so sure she was dying. Was this it? Was this how she —
John reels back, nausea striking him in the pit of his stomach. What kind of twisted coincidence is this? Why is he finding this now? If Terezi was here, why? Who was she bleeding with in the back of his father’s car?
I’m guessing john was bleeding with terezi in the back of his father’s car?
I mean when I left off with meat terezi had just shown up to find john impaled in the chest with one of LE’s teeth
But I’m like. SUPER not psyched to learn what happened to terezi
A choked sob forces its way out of his chest. His fingers flex into claws, gathering up dirt into his shaking fists. He bears down until his knuckles turn white and his fingernails press sharply into the flesh of his palms. The pain makes him feel real.
All he’s ever wanted is to be fucking real.
Maybe it’s because this is the first thing I’m reading this morning but I absolutely cannot take this seriously
CANDY 27
Ten year time skip. Jesus.
So everyones in their late 30s, now
I’m love them?
Also things are super not great on earth c, huh
Like imagine being jane crocker & playing a game where all your friends die a bunch & then showing up to an idyllic planet and being like ‘you know what this world needs more of? Fascism and eugenics.’
Also didn’t jane’s dad make it onto earth c??? where is THAT motherfucker??
I’m glad that sollux and aradia are still like. Chillin.
Karkat sure does know how to sweet-talk people
Also karkat still misses dave ):
And dave still misses karkat ):
This is so fucking rough
CANDY 28
VRISKA???
Yeah this is the vriska that got punted by LE after releasing the juju
She is taking things as well as I would imagine vriska to take things
CANDY 29
These chapters are getting shorter. Maybe I’ll actually finish this today
…lord English?
CANDY 30
Okay, so jane’s dad was on earth c, and now he’s dead
Jesus Christ
I shouldn’t be laughing but adjsgklfgfs
Leave it to karkat to try to assassinate someone with a fucking rocket launcher
Also leave it to dad to jump in front of a FUCKING ROCKET LAUNCHER
I cant believe gamzee fucking Makara is still here. I was hoping that had all been a nightmare
Yikes! Yikes! Yikes! Yikes!
Asdfghjkjhgfdsdfghjkjhgfdsdfghjkljhgfrvghkhgf
I-
I don’t know how I didn’t see this coming
BEGONE, CLOWN
CANDY 31
I missed their interactions
John is so fucking funny sometimes
I’m laughimg so fucking hard
Also I’m going to keep calling her vriska and calling rose and kanaya’s child ‘kid vriska.’ Otherwise I will get incredibly confused between this vriska and actual (vriska)
Vriska I love you
Also I like how john straight up hates kid vriska
God she’s so intolerable. I love her.
Also vriska and dirk are so similar but I love vriska and can’t stand dirk
am I a misandrist
(I know it’s probably their differences; vriska is dedicated to being a hero and not a author/villain(?) and still, like, values people, even if it is in her own fucked up way. Also she’s like a billion times more critical of herself than dirk is)
oh god theyre talking about terezi
yeah that didn’t go anywhere I wanted it to
CANDY 32
fukcing. Gamzee.
Please god vriska beat this clowns ass
“brutal Double Axe Handle” “European-style Uppercut” “knife chop” “Discus Back Elbow”
Am I supposed to know what any of this means
I like how john is just watching this happen
Gamzee grabs (Vriska)’s foot by the bridge. Instead of yanking her off-balance, he opens his huge, bloody maw of a mouth and... runs his tongue along the rubber bottom of her shoe? (Vriska) freezes. She watches him lap the mud—and his own blood—out from between the grooves of the sole. His lips drag lewdly over the ridge of her footwear and begin sucking at where her big toe would be, if it were not safely ensconced in several layers of rubber and canvas.
Fucking GROSS
I hate this clown so goddamn much
This is the absolute Worst Outcome
Like I cannot imagine a more upsetting scenario than gamzee and vriska making out in canon
Dirk’s suicide would be a fucking palate cleanser at this point
That was a bad joke to make but that’s what homestuck does to you I fucking guess
CANDY 33
*I* don’t even remember the three pillars of canon
And I read that shit literally yesterday
I, unfortunately, have no idea what this means
Well. At least rose is happy. For the first time in the entirety of homestuck.
CANDY 34
“immoderately lit”
I’m going to say that all the time now. Thanks.
Vriska’s huge, mischievous smile freezes on her face. When her eyes pass the image to her brain, and it finally makes sense of this incomprehensible jumble of gray limbs, blue and purple slop, tangled black hair, and stunned faces, her expression begins to slowly melt. It then drifts quickly, from phase to phase, to one of wonder, then anguish, and finally, abject horror.
This is so fucking unfortunate
CANDY 35
At least all the vriskas are on the same page about this being the nightmare scenario. At least theres that.
Gamzee calling vriska “problematic.” I’m laughing really hard but I’m also like. Enraged.
And then, she lets go. His face is frozen in a repellent mask exhibiting the perfectly undetectable difference between terror and ecstasy. He’s dead.
I hope to GOD this is true but I’ve been tricked before
I don’t know if I will ever be truly free of gamzee fucking Makara
CANDY 36
Jake and his kid showed up to johns house and jake is wearing nothing but underwear
At this point this is one of the least strange things to happen
All the same, John finds it hard to feel much sympathy. Who is Jake? The one standing in front of him now, anyway. Has he always been this contemptibly pathetic, or is this too a function of the absurdity of this contorted reality? It’s hard to be sure. Are Jake’s “struggles” worth any more of John’s guilt and emotional energy than a Sim stuck in a pool without a ladder?
Jesus Christ. John did not come to play today. Fuck.
Also I feel incredibly bad for jake. I’ve never liked him but I’m not, like, a monster.
Or maybe he is doing exactly what Jake has always done. In a certain light, isn’t ascribing all this mess to some unconscious influence he might have had over the metaphysical shape of reality just a way to brush off his simpler failures as a man and a father?
God why is homestuck kicking my ass so bad
John constantly misses his dad and all I can think about is how often his dad told him that he was proud of him. And now john thinks he’s failed as a father.
John and jake are. Dancing.
I absolutely have not forgotten that jake is still in his underwear
CANDY 37
I’m living for this conversation between vriska and kid-vriska
Man I bet dirk hates john’s guts LOL
Like I imagine john’s retcon powers infuriate him
Though I bet dirk wouldn’t want the retcon powers for himself. It might take away the “challenge” of it. Idk.
Jesus Christ
How the turntables….
I Am Going To Vomit
Vrisrezi is so fucking legendary. No one can ever change my mind.
I also I just ate a ham and cheese sandwich and it was really fucking gross. Legit cant tell if I’m nauseous about that or vrisrezi
[CHANTING] VRISKA AND TEREZI ARE IN LOVE! VRISKA AND TEREZI ARE IN LOVE! VRISKA AND TEREZI ARE IN LOVE!
I’M SHAKING I FEEL SO VINDICATED RN
I forgive all the other dumb shit in this epilogue
Seriously. Transcends quadrants. I have been saying this for half a fucking decade. Vriska and terezi are in gay love. Eat shit, haters.
Asdfghjkl
I hate this stupid webcomic
I have nothing intelligent left to say anymore (as if I ever had anything intelligent to say) but. Homestuck good.
I am going to Lose My Shit
CANDY 38
Thank Fucking God
Also ever since dead teen space jade fell out of the sky, all of the characters have felt a lot more real
I’m not sure if that’s in the narrative or that’s just me getting over my disgruntlement at the incredibly batshit things happening in candy
Hatchi fucking matchi
Also getting some real dirk-fading-into-the-ether vibes from john here
Roxy is fucking laying into john damn
But it’s not like they arent making completely valid points
………..hmm……..
God I’m so depressed
I’ve spent 80% of my life worried that I’m doing the Important and Right thing
And in the last 4-5 years I’ve been confronted with my cosmic insignificance and I have not been able to get over it
Like I get it’s kind of asshole-ish. Narcissistic. Selfish. To think of your life and the people in it as something….sidelined. and to be all mopey over that.
I WANT to be all “who cares” about it because thinking that your life has any Grand Significance In The Scope Of The Infinite Universe is 100% impractical and frankly batshit
This is all to say that I have problems and homestuck if calling me tf out
CANDY 39
dave is in the FUCKING WHITE HOUSE
I swear to god if Obama shows up I will shit my fucking pants
He steps closer to investigate, wiping away at the layers of moss and dirt to reveal a surface he most certainly does recognize. It’s a transportalizer.
I am shaking in anticipation
It’s a mounted god tier costume, about the size an adult male would wear. He recognizes the symbol. It’s the same one Jake used to wear when they were teens. It is the symbol for Hope.
Obama played fucking sburb didn’t he
Why is homestuck so fucking funny
OBAMA LMAOOOOOOOOO
This is the most homestuck thing to ever happen in homestuck
Hologram throwing all this inspiring bullshit at dave and dave just repeatedly asking how Obama died
He tells himself there’s nothing wrong with crying. Of course there isn’t. Just... not in front of Obama. He’s GOT to keep it together.
I’m just gonna. Put this here.
Obama ships davekat
Daaaaaave ): ): ):
Yes I’m 21 years old yes I’m tearing up at a conversation between a fictionalized barrack obama and a fictional man who wears sunglasses from a ben stiller movie all the time
Hate this fucking comic LOL
“wake up”. What. What is happening.
The sliding panel reveals a recess, and in the recess stands a robot. It’s a gleaming, polished silver replica of Dave, but without shades. It stands totally still, unpowered. Dave struggles to make sense of what he’s looking at.
Is THIS the robot that dirk was building??
Wait Obama said he built it
What the actual fuck
Fucking. WHAT. DAVBOT?
This is so fucking weird
CANDY 40
Asdfghjkl
I love you aradia
Wow that conversation was…………..something
So calliope is fighting dirk for control of the narrative?
and dirk is like, an irresponsible author
especially interesting convo in light of dirk’s status as andrew’s self-insert
also I knew LE was gonna show up
CANDY POSTSCRIPT
rose…..bot……………..
I’ve got a bad feeling about this scoob
Also not feeling great about fucking davebot
That’s it for candy……………………..
Hopefully meat is more conclusive that
I’ve been reading for 15 total hours now
Might as well keep going
MEAT 25
Didn’t think I’d actually do it, huh?? Snide bastard
Also rose is going to straight die real soon isn’t she
And then become rosebot
Oh fuck right off
MEAT 26
Get wrecked you punk-ass bitch
MEAT 27
Okay so alt calliope is taking over jades body in this reality. Cool cool.
Also. Interesting that calliope said the way events are telegraphed, not what events are telegraphed. Goes back to importance of the speaker convo from candy
Dirk’s text is getting smaller asfgshfjk
Also good to know that calliope is completely Freaked The Fuck Out in this reality too, re: alt calliope occupying jade’s body
……….man
Also I’ve said this before but. Dirk and vriska. Are so alike.
MEAT 28
Terezi dear god I fucking missed you
It probably hasn’t been that long but it feels like forever
Yeah I suppose terezi’s been talking w/ the john that’s aged into his 30s
Also I was thinking about this lastnight & I forgot that time works different here in ye olde paradox space and I was kinda super weirded out thinking about a 30 y/o john flirting with terezi. I actually had a nightmare about it lmao. But this morning I remembered that terezis probably been at this forever.
I think the fact that john is even worried about this at all means he’s in pretty good shape
John: *thinks a girl is cute*
John: oh shit am I being a creep
Okay, terezi says she feels like she’s been out there for a hundred sweeps. That defo makes me feel better about her and john flirting
Okay, so I was right. John was the one bleeding in the car
Terezi’s not bleeding though so I am. Nervous to find out how that happens.
OF COURSE terezi is still looking for vriska, you fucking goon. Theyre in love.
Though I gotta say I wasn’t that down with johnrezi before the epilogue but. I have to say. It’s actually very cute.
Terezi just. Ate shaving cream.
MEAT 29
Oh, hi, jane
I kinda forgot how far along she is in her development as a full-blown fascist in this timeline
Dirk: *speaks*
Me: bitch
Jesus Christ
Waiting for dirk to call jane problematic
Calliope SNAPPED
MEAT 30
Why is karkat hiking around in a fucking suit
I love karkat
I love dave
Dave starting to explain super pacs to jake
And using sbahj for campaign ads asgdhadkjl
Why is he like this (I say, fondly)
Dirk is really out here being Like That
I’m
I have no words
Also I promise that this is unrelated but jake has inexplicably grown on me a little (not a lot)
MEAT 31
Now terezi is eating tobacco
She’s disgusting. I love her.
Terezi ):
John: *talks about how great terezi is*
Me: *nods solemnly*
I Am In Pain
GOD I love Terezi
Terezi: hold on. Lemme just do an impromptu surgery real quick.
Terezi: *is, very unsurprisingly, turned on by doing an impromptu surgery*
Oh ok this is happening
Good thing I found the time to get down w/ johnrezi I fucking guess
Not completely sure how I feel about this
MEAT 32
Is dirk about to fucking assassinate jake
He wouldn’t do that right
Dirk said transphobe rights??
God I hate this motherfucker
Dave: come…’out.’ What is this you speak of.
Roxy, dave, and alt calliope: Let’s talk about gender
Okay, so. Assassinating jake is something that dirk WOULD do
Calliope struggling to keep dirk back w/ the power of their narration is very fun to read though
Dirk: *slices the bell in half*
Me: that would’ve…made good content for a flash
Not to sound ungrateful but not one panel? Not one flash animation? Instead I have to read all these WORDS?
Of course if this were in a flash animation I probably wouldn’t understand fuckall of what is going on
On the other hand, it wouldn’t be taking me a billion years to get through this
God can roxy please get a pair of sunglasses to match dave. Please.
Hour? 17.5? Maybe?
Anyway I am being forced to take a break so I can participate in easter festivities (by which I mean eating dinner with 2 whole people)
Okay I’m back
I defo should be able to finish this tonight
Okay I guess killing Jake is NOT something that Dirk would do
At least. Not right now. And probably not permanently
dude…
you got to FLIP it
TURN-WAYS
Time to be back on dirk’s bullshit I guess
Meat 33
In the two hours that I was gone I managed to forget that john and terezi boned
Dirk saying things like “incel” and “cuck” make me want to Kill
Meat 34
Wow it so incredibly awful to read Dirk’s narration
I hate this stupid motherfucker so fucking much
Meat 35
*sees more orange text* oh jesus Christ
God why is he being so fucking cruel
Also if john dies then like. WHAT is the point.
Aw man I’m fucking crying
Man what the fuck
This shit fucking sucks
I gotta take a break
Meat 36
Now that I’ve taken like a 5 minute break to stop fucking crying it’s time to get back on the pain train I guess
Since I actually let Tears Fall there’s an increased chance that I’ll cry again
So I cannot be held accountable if I do that
Why the fuck does this clown keep misgendering roxy
Terezi: *pulls johns corpse out of a wallet to smell it* nothing weird about this
Also how tf is terezi gonna show back up shortly after john goes missing and no ones gonna suspect anything
Is it vriska. It’s vriska isn’t it.
Why do I feel like I’m either never going to get to see this conversation or I AM going to get to see it and its going to cause me immense personal distress
TEREZI SAID TRANS RIGHTS
Also terezi can hear dirk???????????
And are roxy’s pronouns him or them
Like did terezi just assume based on roxy’s appearance or did she talk to kanaya about it
Also I hate dirk’s stupid fucking guts
It does NOT help that I didn’t like him before the epilogue
God he sucks shit
Say it with me, now: we love terezi pyrope
Terezi DO NOT trust this clown ass motherfucker
Meat 37
Dirk is actually the worst dad. Don’t sweat it, john.
ROSE: Are you sure Kanaya is going to be ok with this?
No, rose. She absolutely will not be ok with this. What the fuck.
This shit sucks so goddamn much
I am going to be so depressed after finishing this arent I
Goddammit I’m crying again. I fucking knew I would.
Meat 38
Unfortunately I agree with dirk
FUCK
Davekat is so GOOD what the hell
Also
Karkat ):
Dirk will you fucking fuck off
I’m seriously okay with dave and karkat hopelessly pining forever if it means dirk doesn’t literally FORCE them to kiss. Like, what the fuck.
I take a deep breath and get myself under control. My light psychological intrusions may have only made things worse. Invested as I am in the outcome of this encounter, I know forcing their hand would be a mistake.
That’s the smartest thing you ever said you stupid fuck
Thank Fucking God
Meat 39
I’m nearing the end of this whole things and dirk still has narrative control. Not psyched about that.
He’s gently stroking the side of my arm now, making no effort to disguise his interest in the contours of my muscles. I use that arm to put a hand on his shoulder in an affable way, so that he’s forced to stop.
Dirk: I heard that Dirk has an 8-pack
Wait I already think I made that joke
He takes in every drop of light reflecting from my beautiful face. The sculpted cheekbones, the warrior’s eyebrows, the deadly serious yet exquisitely kissable mouth. This is the face he lives for now. A visage that, in mere minutes, will vanish from his life forever. The tears drop. His voice cracks.
Fuck OFF dude. I hate you so goddamn much.
I miss gamzee. GAMZEE. Can you believe that shit?????????
Also it’s so incredibly shitty that jane won the election against karkat
like there’s no way there’s gonna be any kind of resistance now for like, plenty of reasons, one being that it wouldn’t even start in the first place. Now jane’s gonna slide to Literal Genocide but with no opposition this time
god this is wack
Meat 40
I am so tired of seeing this fools orange text
Please god
Also I hate that homestuck has me counting exclamation marks to make sure theres not a significant number of them (8. 8 is the significant number)
Thinking about dave’s speech at dirk’s funeral and Not Feeling Great
Does dirk actually think dave is going to be the one to kill him or is that just his weird decapitation fetish talking
Meat 41
Kanaya I love you and this is not your fault but jesus Christ
Kanaya: I Have Been Bamboozled
Oh shes fucking mad
KANAYA: ***I SWEAR THAT I SHALL MAKE HIM PAY DEARLY FOR STEALING MY BELOVED WIFE!***
I know that I’ll never see it happen but I hope kanaya beats dirks ass into the goddamn ground
Remember when chainsawed eridan in half and put on bloodied lipstick afterward? That’s the shit I’m talking about
Welp. Bye, jade.
Fucking. My sentiments exactly.
Alright alt calliope is using ‘he’ pronouns w/ Roxy so I’m assuming that’s right, considering alt calliope has access to Roxy’s thoughts and shit
fuck you you punk-ass bitch
Meat 43
I have never in my life been more relieved to see red text instead of orange
Things are still pretty fucking awful, though. I haven’t forgotten that.
sdfghjkl
see things are 100% Very Bad rn but this isn’t like completely impossible to read? Like I enjoyed parts of the epilogue, didn’t enjoy other parts. But the a lot of the parts I didn’t enjoy just were so painful to read. It was damn near impossible sometimes. And like, I get what you’re trying to do, but imo tough subjects don’t necessarily need to be written in a way that makes me so viscerally upset lol
anyway what I’m saying is that I’m not viscerally upset right now. Considering I’m nearing the end, this is a good thing.
karkat is talking about how dumb the concept of incest is and is being a jerk about how roxy’s dressed. I am upset again.
Thank god dave is here to save the fucking day
I just sneezed and heard crackling in my ears. I’ve been hearing shit like that for a solid two months now. Is there fluid in my ears? Do I have an ear infection? How long do ear infections last?
I’m love them
They still don’t know john is dead ): ): ):
Thank fucking god
At least there’s the possibility that they’ll see john again and that calliope is going to provide some fucking guidance
Also arent epilogues supposed to RESOLVE SHIT and not like. Leave me hanging like this. I can tell it’s to leave me hanging and listen. Listen. I just want to be free.
I’m going to be 40 goddamn years old and homestuck: the sequel is going to come out and the characters are going to be 42 and dealing with the exact issues that I’m dealing with as a 40 year old and it’ll launch me into an at-least-a-month-long spiral of fruitless self-reflection while I cry about it
Oh god fucking dammit
What was his sacrifice, even? Having sex with terezi?
Sorry. I’m just bitter.
In any case, in addition to like, weakening LE enough for alt calliope to presumably kill him, I do think it has something to do with terezi. I don’t think her role in things is quite over yet.
Meat Postscript
Okay so we’re back to candy?
Or, at least, where candy left off
Did. Alt calliope eat LE. Is that what happens when cherubs defeat one another. Did I manage to forget this cannibalistic detail.
Did dirk influence Obama to make davebot so davebot could join forces with alt-calliope to go against dirk, or was that Obama intentionally going up against dirk
Did I really type that sentence with my own fingers
The hole leaves behind an absence in the sky so calm that continuing to call it a sky wouldn’t seem to do it justice. It’s a perfectly neutral expanse into which anything one can imagine might be summoned. And for a while, anything was. But not anymore. Where the hole gaped just moments ago, there now exists an imaginary line.
Above this line resides all that matters. Below exists all else. Never again the twain shall meet.
These are a dope couple of paragraphs
Also I know that this probably goes against everything I just read but I hope this means I never have to read about an offshoot timeline again
Like I get that that was all Homestuck Brand Fuckery but I need like 300 months to recover
21 hours of reading later and I don’t really know what to
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Oh goodness, what three or five characteristics can you boil Meyer down to? I'm sorry for one again asking you to elaborate on a throwaway line in your tags, but I'm so curious, and your meta is just so awesome.
@jasonjacinto said: if you’d be willing i’d love to hear more about you “you want me to be a villain? i’ll show you a villain” meyer meta
OH NO you guys are just giving me an opportunity to ramble aaaahhhh /o\ okay so. to preface: i am a very big fan of a writer in a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT fandom who i think is fantastic at her craft, and who writes a loooooooot of AUs that stick the characters she’s writing into completely different situations than canon. but the characters are always recognizable because she’s very very good at distilling them down to a few key traits, and then having those traits interplay with the situation[s] of the AU. it’s a really effective way to go way beyond the canon content but keep the characters immediately in-character, and since reading her meta on her process i’ve been kind of trying to do the same for the only characters i ever really write fic with, and while i don’t think i can quite do it for charlie as definitively, i have Opinions on meyer and i also think meyer is the easier of the two to misunderstand and therefore mischaracterize, so that influences how strongly i feel about my read as well. after thinking about it a bit more in depth, the “you want me to be a villain? i’ll show you a villain” thing that the tags were on is teeechnically not one of those pillar traits of his, it’s a combination of two traits that ARE pillar traits, and i’ll talk about why it’s a combo trait later on. for the actual traits themselves, with longer explanations under the cut:
a drive to survive/succeed and a fundamental need for security;
extreme stubbornness;
Smartypants;
and the limited emotional expression we all know and love;
and the “i’ll show you a villain” thing is a weird blend of traits 1 and 2.
so in terms of Base Motivations, for me meyer’s number one priority is always always always his Drive to Survive/Succeed. in canon this is influenced by his traumatic childhood, because growing up in a place full of people trying to kill you and everyone you know constantly sort of makes survival the ultimate goal with everything that you do. but because i don’t like the idea that trauma and its effects are necessarily immutable parts of someone’s character, and because when we’re talking AUs the antisemitic violence the lanskys experienced in grodno was a very specific moment in history that can’t always be replicated perfectly when translating the character into an AU, i read a significant chunk of meyer’s focus on survival and security as an essential part of his personality. the circumstances around him can influence how he interprets survival and security, but in general, for me, his number one goal is “work towards getting to a position where no one can ever hurt me ever again.”
a sub-trait of this is that he is… extremely stubborn. he’s quiet about it, but he is next to impossible to win a fight with if he really digs his heels in, physically or verbally or whatever. the stubbornness has its roots in the survival motivation, but expresses itself in enough ways that aren’t directly related to survival/security that i think it can be counted as a separate trait. if he gets knocked down in a fight he’s gonna get back up again, he very rarely expresses uncertainty out loud or through body language, he very rarely asks anyone for anything as opposed to [politely, but without giving up ground by putting a question mark on the sentence] stating what he wants and what they’ll get out of it in exchange, and he never ever apologizes. for anything. like he might have apologized once ever in his life and if he did it was to his mom. like i said, this is related to his goal of survival and need for security, in the way that, like… if you can’t be sure of yourself, what can you be sure of? so in his view he is Never Wrong, because he doesn’t think he can afford to be.
trait number three doesn’t exactly help with Never Thinking He’s Wrong because trait number three is that he is Smart. whatever universe, whatever circumstances, he has an analytical outlook and an intellectual curiosity that is… pretty wide-ranging. he’s good at and enjoys math, which is the stand-out thing, because math is hard and it’s the easiest way to express being analytically-minded, so it’s what sticks out to other people the most, but he does just like to read nonfiction and absorb Facts in general. he’s also fairly good at predicting how people will react to things, so he has some degree of… emotional intelligence, i guess? in that he can use previous examples of people’s behavior and reactions to predict how they’ll react to other situations in the future, and he’s able to leverage that analysis of other people to his [and his partners’] benefit.
which leads into trait four, which is the emotional reservedness that i am always torn on how to explain, because to some degree i do think his tendency to limit his emotional expression is an intrinsic trait, but just because he doesn’t outwardly express his emotions as clearly as the people around him [in a way that people other than charlie can clock, anyway] doesn’t mean he doesn’t feel it at all. i guess sort of the delineation for me is that meyer’s emotional repression in canon is influenced by his trauma—his strong emotions tend to be a little muted because of his PTSD—but the limited emotional expression is a Pillar Trait—he might be more aware of his feelings in AUs where he has a lesser degree of trauma in his past, but he’s never going to be effusive about them. also he is… way more susceptible to outward expressions of anger in particular than he thinks he is, and he only gets better at restraining his anger after being around AR for a while, for whom that restraint comes a little more naturally. teenager meyer is a tiny ball of rage just waiting for some idiot to give him an excuse to let it out.
SO I THINK THOSE ARE THE BIG FOUR? i can go more in depth with sub-traits, particularly of number one, but suffice it to say that i think most of the sub-traits i can think of are all in service of Attaining Security—as an example, meyer demonstrates a higher consciousness of mainstream acceptability than any of the other baby gangsters do, with the acknowledgement that liquor’s only outlawed temporarily and gambling is also only on the fringes for now but Drugs Are Not Acceptable To Mainstream People, plus his interest in the land in tampa [and later havana] as a pathway to legitimate money via real estate development, and i think that for meyer has its roots not in a need to be Accepted [which i think charlie feels more keenly than meyer does tbh] but in an awareness that, basically, the less you stick out from The Norm, the safer you are. basically, “will it help me survive” will override almost everything else, in terms of “what motivates meyer,” and then the other traits filter in and influence and are influenced by the others.
IN TERMS OF THE VILLAIN THING. that basically comes down to a blend of traits one and two? because he Has To Survive, and the easiest/most sensible path to survival in canon is by doing the organized crime shit—which is not Wrong, because the ultimate goal of EVERYTHING HE DOES is survival, and crime shit enables the survival, but it conflicts with the awareness that by engaging in crime shit, he’s sticking out from the norm, which means there’s a tension between “i have to be secure” and “the actions i’m taking to make myself secure in one respect are making me less secure in another.” the resolution to that tension is not “get out of crime immediately and do something less profitable but more acceptable,” the resolution to that tension is “Everyone Else Is Wrong.” he’s just doing what he needs to do, but if society is going to insist that he’s A Bad Person, then fine, he’s gonna be the best at being bad, and gradually move into more acceptable things, because that’s not an admission that he’s wrong to be doing crime, it’s just a natural progression of his investments. so yeah! hooopefully all that makes sense and jives and i’m not just. rambling. without making sense?
#boardwalk empire#meyer lansky#dragon-in-drag#jasonjacinto#[i got your ask after i'd finished writing my response to d-i-d HOPEFULLY THIS ANSWERS THAT TOO THOUGH /o\]#THIS IS VERY RAMBLY AND HOPEFULLY IS NOT TOO UNBEARABLE TO READ?#thank u for the opportunity to babble though hahaaa i'm weak#you don't know what i have#asks
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Remember when I said I had more to say? You’re getting it.
A.k.a. my Sion/Exile vs. Reylo meta that I’ve been sitting on for quite a while now. Fair warning, this may start a rumble, but I have to get this out of my system.
Call it one of those moments when I realized that I am not against hero/villain pairings by default. I mean, my Darkpilot shipping aside, one of my favorite pairings when I was in the Knights of the Old Republic fandom was Darth Sion and the Jedi Exile (unfortunately only available if you play the female path. I’m guessing Chris Avellone didn’t want any Unfortunate Implications, to quote TV Tropes...?). Why does Sion/Exile work for me, and Reylo does not (besides my love of FinnRey and Darkpilot)?
Let’s look at the evidence.
For a bit of backstory, Knights of the Old Republic II follows a General of a fallen Jedi-turned-good-again (or bad again, depending on your choices), named simply the Jedi Exile (there’s one book that calls her Meetra Surik, but IMHO, she’s really the Exile in name only from what I heard), who has (SPOILERS) cut herself off from the Force after a traumatic event at the Battle of Malachor V. When she returns to Republic space, she, among other things, finds herself tracked by two Sith Lords intent on exterminating all Jedi everywhere. One’s a Sith Lord who feeds off the Force (it’s a long story). One’s Sion, who relies on his physical and mental anguish in order to survive things that would kill a normal person (including the explosion of a starship). As a result...well, he basically looks like this:
Yeah, that guy. This is when he’s confronting the Exile on Korriban (I know it’s Moraband in the new canon, but this is old canon). We’ll be going into that soon enough.
So, on the surface, SionExile and Reylo have similarities. Sion and Kylo even look somewhat alike.
Seriously, I don’t think it’s a stretch to think that they went to the same clothing designer. Difference is that Kylo’s not as seriously scarred, but I digress.
But in the end, there are definite differences in terms of how they’re executed. To begin with, Sion actually seems to care for the Exile, in a very twisted sense of the word. Kylo...if there’s any love in him for Rey, it would be a miracle.
First meetings
For Sion and the Exile, they actually have two first meetings. One is on the Republic ship the Harbinger, when the Exile (along with her two party members, Atton and Kreia -- Kreia being who Sion has a very complex relationship with. He hates her, yet also yearns for her approval, even though it’s clear that she loathes him. And at the same time, he wants to save the Exile -- at least the female Exile -- from suffering the same fate he did, whatever happened to him pre-game) is trying to get off the mining colony Peragus. Sion makes his entrance to the Exile at the end of a long dark hall on the ship (unfortunately, I can’t find a good screencap of it), while saying (at least in the Restored Content mod), “I came to warn you, Jedi; you know not the path you walk.”
Their second first meeting comes on Korriban. Sion’s treatment of the female Exile is quite a contrast to how Kylo treats Rey. While he is rather creepy in terms of describing himself as having studied the Exile extensively (up to knowing where she walked when she was in Exile, her battles in the Mandalorian Wars, and more), he’s surprisingly gentle with her.
For starters, in a video game, the voice acting is essential (along with animation, etc.) to convey emotions. In contrast to his angry Evil Cannot Comprehend Good treatment of a male Exile (Sion doesn’t understand why someone would turn away from power instead of embrace it), Sion is generally tender towards a female Exile in terms of how he speaks. His voice softens, and while there are instances where he seems genuinely confused as to why Kreia would sacrifice herself for the Exile either way, he shows sympathy for what she’s gone through (“You know what it means to be broken.”) and tries to warn her, again, about Kreia and what she’s capable of (”The one who travels with you will destroy you, as she did me. I can end it before it begins.”).
Now Sion, obviously, is not a destined partnership sort. Sion’s not even the character I mainly ship my female Exiles with (that would be Atton, God bless him). But it is noteworthy that even his facial expression seems to be softer in that screencap -- at least as soft as one can get considering the animation. Pretty decent animation for 2004, really. It’s also noteworthy that Sion’s voice goes a lot more tender when he says that line, almost like the Exile’s valuable to him. (We’ll get into that more later)
In addition, he has qualms about harming the Exile. After the Exile (temporarily) beats him in battle, he actually spares her, even ordering his assassins not to harm her. “She,” he says, “Has earned this. She and I will meet again.”
Even that shows more respect towards the Exile than Kylo shows towards Rey. The Exile may be his enemy, but he respects her for what she’s been able to accomplish (especially since, in both paths, he underestimates the Exile. The difference is that with a male Exile, Sion despises him, while with a female Exile, Sion begrudgingly respects what she’s capable of).
In contrast, Kylo’s meeting with Rey is much different. In her initial vision, Rey’s frightened of him:
He terrifies her in the forest of Takodana, blatantly:
There was quite a ruckus made over the fact that he carried her bridal style (and even that you would have to stretch quite a bit, considering that it reminded me more of how Michael Myers would carry a victim), but even then, the difference between bridal style and that is that you have to have consent from the carried (carry-ee? Who knows). Kylo didn’t have Rey’s consent when he carried her. He actively knocked her unconscious with the Force (it’s rather unclear, but he does wave his hand a little) in order to get what he wanted:
And lest we forget, he tortured her. “But brokenedgeben!” you may say. “You ship Darkpilot, and that’s way worse than Reylo!”
Yes, I ship Darkpilot. The difference is that Darkpilot shippers never try to romanticize Poe’s torture or minimize it like Reylos do with Rey (some have said that Kylo didn’t really torture her). We acknowledge that what Kylo did is a terrible thing and actually try to work with it. Sion obviously never tortured the Exile (ergo, not much to go on), so the best we can do is get into Kylo’s torture of Rey. I remember reading multiple fics that tried to excuse and rationalize Rey’s torture, including saying it was okay because he didn’t use a torture droid on her like he (apparently) did to Poe. But does it really make it better? Let’s really look at the evidence here. Aside from taking off his mask for Rey and trying to explain to her why she’s here, he isn’t really any better towards her than he was towards Poe. In fact, the only difference is that Rey beats him in the end. When he’s interrogating her, and getting into her personal space, she’s crying, closing her eyes, and turning her face away:
She doesn’t want it. It’s easy to understand why JJ Abrams would compare this scene to a sexual assault -- Kylo refuses to get out of her head and she has to force him out, and then there’s the gratuitous closeness of the two (again, without Rey’s consent, so even if Reylo did exist, it would be one-sided at most) during the torture scene.
Attitudes towards enemies
With Sion, it’s made abundantly clear that he does have compassion and respect towards the Exile, twisted as it is. That only becomes stronger as we get to Malachor V. Nihilus has been vanquished, but Sion and Kreia are still standing, and Sion is relegated to being Kreia’s servant again (after Kreia makes a point of Force Choking him). Now, Kylo had no qualms about bringing Rey to Snoke, and even watches idly as Rey’s tortured by Snoke:
When Rey’s tortured by Snoke, there’s no emotion on Kylo’s face. There’s very little emotion, actually. He does nothing to intervene until the last minute when he kills Snoke (and even Rian Johnson’s comments don’t necessarily suggest that he killed Snoke for Rey). Not to mention that he’s tortured Rey in the past, complete with very creepily getting into her space:
When Kreia and Sion discuss the Exile on Malachor, however, Sion immediately shows concern for her. He explicitly asks Kreia what she will do to the Exile, which Kreia mocks him for, even asking if he has feelings within that shell. (In contrast, aside from Snoke bringing up the idea of Kylo having compassion for Rey in the novelization -- very different from romantic love -- Kylo’s feelings for Rey are never acknowledged onscreen) Even when Kreia explains what she’ll do (which may have been a bluff, but Sion didn’t know that), Sion actually is furious -- he doesn’t show it explicitly, but the gesture he makes of helplessly clenching his fists says volumes, really.
When Rey tries to sway Kylo away from the path he’s going down (and keep in mind she’s crying all the while), Kylo shouts at her, and then, to twist the knife further, forces her to say that her parents were basically nobody and then says, “You have no place in this story. You come from nothing -- you’re nothing. But not to me.” Even the last part could arguably be called a form of emotional manipulation.
And keep in mind, Rey crying above? Kylo did this to her. All because she wanted to help him.
How does Sion handle the duel with the Exile? He explicitly says that he respects the Exile’s abilities -- twice, actually. “I cannot see as [Kreia] does, but I know that in time, you will surpass her power. But not here. Not [at Malachor].” And “You are strong. As strong as I had believed. But you cannot beat me. [Kreia] knows this.” Part of the last one is sheer denial of the fact that Kreia’s using him as a pawn in a very complicated game of dejarik, part of it is a belief that he’s saving the Exile by either having her leave the Academy or killing her himself. When the Exile tries to help him (albeit in a twisted way, considering that it actually does result in Sion’s death at the end), Sion doesn’t ridicule her. He doesn’t rub in the fact that she’s nothing. If anything, Sion’s words seem to be more of unhealthy twisted coping mechanisms literally trying to keep himself alive. His words are fundamentally turned against himself, while Kylo actively wants to (emotionally) break Rey into joining him.
Think about it. If Kylo really loved Rey, he would have appealed to her joining him by confessing he loved her. Not implying, but confessing. It still would have gotten the point across that Kylo is manipulative, but it would have been a major step up from basically humiliating her and putting her down to make himself feel better about the fact that Luke “chose” her over him (don’t believe me? The novelization explicitly says that Kylo’s jealous of Rey. So was Sion with the Exile, of course, but the waters do get muddied by the fact that he genuinely seems to care for her and worry for her in a twisted way).
First, Do No Harm
During their duel in the forest on Starkiller Base before Rey gets the upper hand, Kylo has no qualms about knocking Rey unconscious to focus on Finn first (it’s only after he severely burns Finn that Rey actually reenters the fight). Does he suggest her joining him? Yes, and in an arguably less derogatory way than he does in TLJ, as he doesn’t focus on her origins as much as her power and potential. That’s actually the catalyst for Rey being able to defeat him, and keep in mind, during her duel, she’s absolutely furious with him (and justifiably so):
(This was the best GIF I got of angry Rey, BTW)
After Rey fundamentally rejects him on the Supremacy, Kylo has no qualms about harming her. He even orders the Falcon blown out of the sky (though he doesn’t succeed or Rey would be dead) by his TIE fighters when Rey shows up to the battle. In contrast, while Sion doesn’t hold back in his duel against the Exile, he repeatedly urges her to surrender and leave Malachor because he sees it as better than what Kreia will inevitably do to her (in his eyes). Johnson could have chosen to have Kylo hesitate in firing on Rey for whatever reason (after all, he had it in the beginning with Kylo refusing to fire on his mother), but he didn’t. He chose to have Kylo treat Rey as any other opponent he hated.
The Confession
While Kylo never really confesses his feelings to Rey explicitly, some Reylo shippers have interpreted the “you have no place in this story” speech as a love confession simply because of Kylo’s “but not to me” at the end. The problem is that it doesn’t do anything to tie into Kylo’s character; it’s just awful. In contrast, Sion’s confession is...probably not going to win any awards for best confession ever, but it ties into his character organically and is unexpectedly poignant because it is basically Sion trying to comprehend feelings that aren’t simply the hate and anger that’s keeping him alive -- feelings that may literally kill him. Even the script directions for the dialogue (shown on this Wookieepedia page if you scroll to the bottom and look for the eleventh footnote) describe it as him trying to describe what love feels like to him. It’s part of his character and makes sense. It illuminates a part of his character. With Kylo, the “you come from nothing” speech could have been intended to serve a similar purpose, but what does it really reveal about him? Nothing, except him being a manipulative bastard. And Sion/Exile was never intended to be a destined partnership (those would fall to Atton/Exile and Disciple/Exile, respectively, for a female Exile. And possibly Visas/Exile and Handmaiden/Exile if you’re using a mod). It was all part of Sion’s character, not knowing what to do with his emotions that aren’t hate.
Even while he’s dying, he doesn’t lose his affection for the Exile. He even, while warning her about Kreia a final time, says, “Her weakness is you. As you were mine.” Coming from the literal embodiment of the Dark Side, that’s actually touching in a way.
A tale of two heroines
What also makes Sion and the Exile work is purely in a character-driven way -- Sion is a look into what the Exile could have become if she depended too much on the Force/fell to the Dark Side. (Nihilus is a more blatant parallel, but Sion definitely has his parallels too) The Exile keeps her character arc; she isn’t sacrificed identity-wise in order to try and save Sion. All throughout her encounters with Sion, she keeps her identity intact. And keep in mind, this was written in 2004.
In contrast, everything about Rey’s character in The Last Jedi is sacrificed to serve Kylo. She’s willing to put herself in danger on the off chance (and a really forced -- if you pardon the pun -- off chance that there may be good in him). Luke had a more familial version of it with Vader, but he kept his character arc of becoming a Jedi intact. Rey is sacrificed to serve another, her story of becoming a Jedi ultimately consumed by Kylo’s story. And this was in 2017. And called a “feminist” film. Calling it feminist is a genuine insult to feminism.
Does Rey get a chance to resolve her own conflicts? No. She’s relegated to resolving another’s conflict. When she confronts Snoke, it’s all about “Ben”, not resisting the Dark Side herself. Rey rarely gets a chance to have an identity of her own in TLJ until towards the end; it’s all about Kylo. But hey, what do I know? Obviously I hate things directed at women, despite being a woman myself.
Conclusion
When a hero/villain relationship keeps the heroine’s agency more in a game written in 2004 than a movie in 2017, we’ve got problems on our hands. Even saying that KOTOR II was a deconstruction is no excuse, as The Last Jedi was a deconstruction as well. (I’m probably going to stir up some controversy considering that apparently KOTOR II and TLJ are Friendly Fandoms, but TLJ doesn’t even hold a candle to KOTOR II) The difference is that one got it right, and the other got it wrong. One defied sexist tropes, one succumbed to it. One made the villain sympathetic and even redeemable through the relationship, the other did not.
So how would I have written Reylo? I wouldn’t have copied Sion/Exile word for word, but I’d take these lessons to heart:
-Emphasize the nature of Rey and Kylo as foils. Using Kylo as a foil for Rey would have arguably saved Rey’s character from becoming just a tool for Kylo, as she would have faced him in a way that was relevant to her becoming a Jedi in her own right. Even if you didn’t have her lose in the forest on Starkiller Base, she could be learning to resist the Dark Side, or at least struggling with it. You could even have her struggle with Luke’s teachings, at least in terms of what she’s learned.
-Cut the whole matter of Kylo ragging on Rey’s origins. It really does nothing except make him look like a pointless jerk.
-Have Kylo actually show he cares for Rey. There were countless opportunities. He could have hesitated to blow her out of the sky on Crait. He could have expressed sympathy towards her parentage (even though he has no idea what she’s gone through, at least he’d be trying). He could have openly used his caring for her in order to get her to join his side. (Think Bastila with Revan) He could have warned her what Snoke would do to her and that she shouldn’t have come (though that would have gotten in the way of his plan to turn her, so there is that. Mostly suggesting, of course).
-Build up to Rey actually caring for Kylo and wanting to save him. There was no transition to her sudden change of mind, not even a bit of foreshadowing. It makes me wonder if a scene got cut that never even made it into the deleted scenes.
-Completely change the “You come from nothing” scene. Instead of having Kylo use Rey’s parentage against her, have him promise her a future -- a better future, in his eyes, than what she’s got.
-Have Kylo try and warn her about Luke. It would have been a nice bit of foreshadowing for the fact that Luke’s not entirely the good guy.
-Make it unique to their characters. Make it part of their individual arcs (as I would argue that Sion got an arc despite not being a party member). Make it unique and striking, and you can likely get some gems from there.
In the end, Reylo could have been a lot more. Rey could have been a lot more. The fact that a game made in 2004 had better writing, character development, feminism, and emotion than a movie made in 2017 really does say volumes about how Star Wars has evolved -- and how it may go in the future.
#anti reylo#or at least as it's written#rey deserves better#tw: torture#how kotor 2 was ultimately better than tlj#2004 feminism vs 2017 feminism#2004 feminism wins#meta
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Hi! By canon I mean them both realized that they feel the same way. And I may be wrong, but I don't see it in S12. (Sorry my English, by the way)
Hi… your English is fine! And again, this is really honestly impossible to speculate on for me, because the way *I* see it, they kind of do know it. I mean… they think there’s nothing they can really do about any of it, but they aren’t entirely ignorant of the fact that they’d both literally die for each other, despite both of them only wanting the other to live for them.
I mean, that’s canon. And the way it’s been framed for years is a pinboard frame of romantic tropes.
Technically it’s all still subtext, but that doesn’t mean it’s “imaginary” or whatever. Which gets us into the “subtext is a valid layer of the text that the show itself has textually invited us to examine critically” which opens up the gigantic can of worms about things like authorial intent and acting choices and editing choices and visual narrative… and all the rest of the choices that go into producing the end product we get to watch and interpret.
So for me, I’m waiting for some sort of mutual acknowledgement that they understand the other doesn’t WANT them to act as their guardian, and that they don’t just NEED each other, but they WANT each other. And so far in s13, that’s not just the subtext of the story, but one of the main pillars of the narrative structure itself. Dean’s grief over Cas’s death is textually his primary motivation for everything he’s done and everything he’s felt in the last three episodes.
They’ve clarified the I/we conundrum, separating out how Dean feels compared to how Sam feels as Cas’s “family” and made it impossible for Dean to continue hiding behind that vague admission.
And once again, because people still seem confused about this… META WRITERS AREN’T PSYCHICS! WE ARE NOT TRYING TO PREDICT THE FUTURE! THAT’S SPECULATION. THAT IS NOT META.
And again, because I’ve said it so many times, I HATE SPECULATION!!!!!
I honestly have very little interest in trying to predict what may happen on the show. I find it takes all the fun out of actually watching the show for me.
It also makes it hilarious when I get the whackadoodle anti’s sending me anons like, “You’re delusional for thinking destiel will be canon in s13″ or whatever, because I’m like… “Well, you’re delusional for thinking I’ve ever actually said that…” Because again, I HATE SPECULATION.
(From an academic standpoint, I’ve never read a single argument from an anti that even merited engagement in a debate, because they’re all strawmen or ad hominem attacks, or the most ridiculous sounding “because I said so” sorts of nonsense. Like, sure Jan.)
Reducing all the meta to this “but when will it go canon?!” question is just… missing the entire point of what meta even is. It’s like… we’ve written literally millions upon millions of words about practically every aspect of this show, because that’s the part we find fascinating. And then somehow the tl;dr takeaway of that entire endeavor seems to be “BUT WHEN ARE THEY GONNA KISS?!” And it’s just frustrating.
Sorry, I’m not upset with you. More like this persistent misconception about what the point of meta is in the first place.
As for how I’d *personally enjoy* seeing it go canon? Please see my entire AO3 account. Some people speculate, I write fic where I get to have any ending I want. And I’ve written dozens.
I can’t tell anyone else how to watch the show, how to interpret canon. All I can do is keep writing about how *I* personally see canon unfolding.
Sorry I turned your question into a long and seemingly off-topic ramble, but I am tired. For a defense of my viewpoint on this, please see my whole entire blog (except the cat gifs, I guess. They’re probably not gonna give anyone any insight into how I analyze and view this show. Then again, even Chuck enjoys a good set of cat gifs.)
I analyze this show for fun. I continue watching for fun. Making predictions about whether or not the characters will continue along the arcs that (in all honesty) seem kind of obvious at this point… I mean, I am perfectly willing to give the Magic 8 Ball answer and say “Signs Point To Yes” or whatever, but as to the rest of it? The details of when and how all of it will actually happen on the show? Trying to guess how that will happen is just a pointless waste of time. For *me personally,* trying to do so defeats the entire purpose of even watching the show in the first place. It takes all the fun out of it for me.
Based on my understanding of how stories work, from a lifetime of media consumption and a decade of writing semi-professionally, from knowing hundreds of writers and others in the publishing industry (because that is my background– not television production or screenwriting, but the concepts and storytelling function on the same principles), at best I can make vague guesses based on the sum total of the story to this point, and extrapolate out how those particular narrative trajectories may continue into the future.
NO ONE CAN SAY FOR SURE IF THOSE PROJECTIONS WILL ACTUALLY MANIFEST IN REALITY. Except by continuing to watch the show, watching those narrative and character arcs evolve.
We can read the broad strokes, the major narrative themes, the character development and motivation... and we can make educated guesses about these main themes going forward based on what’s happened so far, because this is how storytelling works. There are basic rules that apply to how a narrative is structured, and we all have a subconscious understanding of it just from having consumed stories our entire lives. We’re not working magic here, we’re just paying attention, because this is just our particular brand of nerdery, you know? We’re like that one jerk in the audience at a magic show who’s figured out how all the tricks work. We can’t guess which specific trick is coming up next, but we probably have a general idea based on the story the magician is trying to tell-- his last three tricks have involved small animals appearing and disappearing, but now he’s taking off his hat... I bet he’s got a rabbit or something hidden in there... And once we see it what he pulls out of the hat, we can explain how and why he did it.
I really hope this makes sense, but I’m so tired of being asked to essentially ruin my own enjoyment of the show in order to pretend like I have some sort of crystal ball, or that I even have an opinion about what will or should happen in canon. It’s just not how I approach the show, or what the point of meta even is.
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Coming Attractions!
No, I did not forget to do this! ...exactly...
I am super late again this month—buuuut I wanted to wait until I’d posted the delayed Precipice chapter, so.
Fanfic:
Precipice:
Sorry, sorry, sorry for all the delays in the last couple of updates—the last two weekends were super-busy, and then last week ended up being slammed at work and my brain just went pfft. Anyway, there will be another update this week/weekend (probably Rex and Leia), and I’ll hopefully meander back on schedule after that.
And I finally finished Commander! \o/ It was a fun arc. I’m very fond of that arc. But…yeah, it’s a long one, particularly given that very little in-story time passes. (Seventeen chapters to cover one very eventful week…)
So, yeah. Lessons is going to be a much quieter arc, something along the lines of Homecoming in terms of content/pacing. Resetting ourselves, establishing our new patterns, etc. Leia starts getting trained, Luke starts helping Mamma at work more, and bonding with Lavinia/actively being the human ray of sunshine he is. Probably Winter will turn up, too. I’m going to try and focus more on the Coruscant/Imperial Center thread this arc, particularly since Commander was so heavily about our Jedi friends…anyway, I’m guessing this will be a relatively short arc (8 or 9 chapters), and not much Drama/not very Plot-heavy. Other than Infernalis introducing himself. (He’s a lot of fun—there’s a bit I have half written where he’s all “yeah, I know Sidious is using me, but a) that’s what sentients do; we use each other and b) I’m using him too and c) I get to do ALL THIS AWESOME SHIT. So I kinda feel like it’s worth it.” Like…I don’t write unapologetic/Always Chaotic Evil/for the LULZ villains very often, but Infernalis is in that mold.)
Also! As of this Thursday, I will have officially been posting this behemoth for a whole entire year. I’m going to do a bonus fic (I’ll probably put up a prompt call post later tonight or tomorrow), and I’m hoping to commission art as well, either a full cover or one or more arc covers (for completed arc(s)). [Eventually, I probably will want ALL of the covers (i.e., main title/all planned arcs); but that’s a long range project because lol budget.]
ANYWAY if you have any specific requests for bonus fic and/or are interested in getting paid to draw pretty things/know someone who does this kind of thing and is open for commissions (since I do not know how to draw pretty things), let me know!
Distaff:
I FINALLY CONQUERED THE OPERA HOUSE \o/ ::throws confetti::
...heh.
Anyway, yeah. So, that’s moving again! Next chapter should not take nearly five months to come out, as it’s a lot less…mmmm…I’m trying to figure out how to word it. The Opera House was hard, because—look, it’s kind of dumb; Anakin is being really really dumb, we make fun of that scene for a reason, but it’s also one of if not the most important scenes in this entire arc? In terms of what Palpatine’s trying to do, I would argue that it’s even more of a key moment than the final revelation in his office some indeterminate time later, after Grievous is killed. Or, at least, it’s a bigger risk—once he gets Anakin past this point, the next one will come much easier.
Plus, you know, having to figure out an alternative Sith Legend™ to throw at her, since Plagueis doesn’t really apply. And Palps’s hand, so to speak, isn’t quite as strong as it is in canon (but, I mean, we’re talking if canon was, like, a straight flush, in Distaff he’s playing four of a kind or a full house; so still almost certainly a win). So there’s all of those factors to consider, too. (Also, it was his POV, which is…a fun headspace to get in, let me tell you, internet. Although whining about that at my ever-patient roommates did lead to me nicknaming him Skeev Palpatine which honestly I’m surprised I hadn’t thought of sooner.)
Buuuuuuut anyway. I make no promises for exactly when the next chapter will be out, but it definitely won’t take quite so long. Should be sometime this month. Fingers crossed, anyhow.
Masks:
…blaaaaaaaaaaaah. I don’t want it to die. I really don’t. On the other hand, I’ve got a whole lot of other projects ongoing, plus RL and all, plus I’m still having trouble getting into ANH!Vader’s head, so…ehhh, IDK. Essentially, I’ve decided that this is really super back-burner for the time being. Possibly I’ll do it in AU Outline form at some point, if I don’t manage a proper update, but for now, it’s on a vaguely-defined “if my brain cooperates” hiatus. I am (probably) locking canon for it as of TFA (meaning it won’t be as much of an In Spite of a Nail AU past that; and more just an…AU AU, if that makes sense?), though, because I like the plot I have. Though I reserve the right to change my mind on that after TLJ. Anyway, I’ll probably stop talking about this one (unless I use one of the spinoff versions of it as an AU Outline or something) until I actually write/post more.
Auxiliaries:
Update will be up very soon! Not a direct continuation of the last bit I posted, because I’m still working on that, but still something! (Ahsoka is involved because I love her.)
AU Outline:
…yeah, I dropped the ball on this one again. It was going to be the Mask of Zorro/California Gold Rush AU No One One Person Asked For, but I need to sit down and watch Zorro again to put that together, and I haven’t gotten around to that. Also, Ventress and her Tiny Time-Travelling Conscience were speaking to me. …well, less them and another thread of that same AU, plus a couple unrelated AUs... Anyway, I’m going to try and put something up sometime in the next couple days. It’ll probably be the continuation of the Ventress and Luke one but we shall see.
Original fic:
…yeah, I didn’t actually write any this month, lol. I’ll do better in October.
Miscellaneous Other Things:
[In a generic list format because why not]
- Epic Crossover RP OF DOOM! I’ll keep posting snippets from time to time, because it entertains me. And my RP partner and I think we’re funny/clever.
- NaNo is coming up next month! I’m probably going to do the same thing I did last year—set myself an ambitious Total Word Count goal for the month, rather than focusing on a single project. Possibly give myself a list of projects to choose from; probably set a minimum amount that must be on original work/not fanfic. More on that when we actually get close, probably.
- I’ll probably do another Open Question Night sometime halfway through the month, because those are always fun.
- …should I do something Special for Halloween? (Like I did holiday bonus fics for Mother’s Day and Father’s Day?) If I did, what would y’all want to see?
Goal Lists:
September Recap:
1. Keep up with Precipice updates.--not so much
2. Opera House.--FINALLY \o/
3. Another Auxiliaries snippet--missed
4. Work on Masks--missed
5. Another crack outline--missed
6. Update Lux and Farglass Cycle archives--someday I will actually do this
7. At least 5k on projects that are not Precipice--not quite, but I think between half-finished snippets and 3k worth of Distaff text I churned out, I got to like 4k or so?
8. At least 15k total on any/all projects--Not quite, no.
9. At least two pieces to Rainbowfic.--Nope.
10. Put some text down on something publishable.--Nope.
October Goals:
1. Keep up with Precipice updates.
2. Update Distaff.
3. Update <i>Auxiliaries.</i>
4. AU Outline--Mask of Zorro fusion and/or continuation of the Ventress one unless something New and Exciting comes up.
5. At least two pieces to RF.
6. Update the Lux and Feredar archives.
8. Write at least 15k total, at least 5k must not be Precipice
9. Write at least 10k on Precipice (bonus fic counts, meta/answered asks do not)
10. Put some text down on something publishable
#coming attractions#miscellania#shadowsong writes star wars#shadowsong writes crossovers#shadowsong cowrites stuff#shadowsong writes original fic#shadowsong26fic
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The Holy Grail of Headcanons
It’s not that I don’t headcanon. I mean, at base, we all imagine the story somehow, right? I don’t have a pipeline that beams the narrative fully formed from any author’s mind to mine, let alone one that’s been dead for a 100+ years. I’m sure there’s no such thing as an IC Odysseus... and what would that even mean (beyond certain broad strokes). Of course, until the Novel came along as an artform, the idea of characterization was very, very fluid. Take the Arthurian legends, for example. It’s more like, ‘a bunch of merry archetypes walked into a bar’.... In that context, I’ll happily say that (for example) my Arthur was a minor Saxon warlord fighting against the Normans. There was never any love triangle. But I accept the Lancelot/Guinevere headcanon. Why not? It’s all good fun, and the possibilities are endless (as long as you make it make sense, so it’s not out of nowhere or over-the-top, ‘cause Mary Sues are always annoying to me, especially with female characters).
I don’t mind fun. Okay, that sounds bad. Let’s just say, I definitely think it is fun. But when I’m taking it a little more seriously, suddenly I’m taking it a lot more seriously. And then, it’s looking for the Holy Grail or I wanna go home (to canon). Because to me, the Story is always real (even if the way it’s made real is inevitably through a reading, which in itself is a set of headcanons). These are tame headcanons, though. Canon-friendly headcanons, made of love and close attention to the story. Headcanons with one purpose: illustration.
I guess I also feel that those medieval bards making those fun AUs is fundamentally different than the sort of thing where you consciously deny canon reality in order to substitute your own, superior reality, where everyone’s relatable and/or non-problematic. I don’t really get that, on an intuitive level. Instead of play, it feels like... war. Like waging war on the narrative. On one side: the Fan. On the other: the Story. In this stand-off, the Fan unquestionably wins. It’s disturbing to me. In the end, I hate taking sides-- in my own way, I love fandom-- but if I had to choose, I choose the Story that I loved in the first place.
It’s not that I don’t get why it happens. Sometimes, you know, stories are problematic in some fashion, and it’d be good to fix it. I suppose these viewers (and/or readers) feel the story is waging war on them. There’s a good reason to find a solution. There’s a difference, though, between an actual solution and a headcanon that’s slapped on.
One would be rewriting Draco Malfoy’s or John Watson’s arc-- that is, giving them one. I would be into that. It’s true that the majority of book 6 (and Series 4, respectively) would indeed be different, but good different. Productive different. But that’s not a headcanon, is it? That’s a whole fanfiction epic. Back when I was in HP fandom, I’d been very much into the idea of fixing canon with canon-divergent but IC epics, although I’ve never seen or written one that fit my (maybe rather extreme) standards, haha. It’s probably impossible to write a fic that’s as good as the HP books, except includes H/D and a whole arc for Draco-- I mean, if you did that, you might as well change the names and sell your own YA fantasy epic or something. Anyway, my point is that I’m just a bit perfectionistic and thorough if I decide canon needs fixing. Just a tad. A smidgeon.
By contrast, a headcanon is just... an idea. An idea that may or may not make sense in context. Most people seem to feel that making sense isn’t as important as just hating the canon less, or being less uncomfortable. A fair enough point. I think for me, it’s just a lot easier to make the canon work with my own headcanons (I mean, used in congress with the text), than making other people’s headcanons work. The way I mean ‘headcanon’ here, it’s just a little bit of smoothing. I wouldn’t rely on it for anything-- the canon’s doing the work-- but I’d be using my imagination to fill in the blanks. That’s fine. Going with the flow of the narrative, behind the scenes-- when the canon’s not looking, so to speak-- you can make a number of creative alterations. Queer readings can flower. Little details take on new significance. The story is enriched if we look more deeply between the lines, imagining the history behind John and Sholto, details about Harry Watson, or creating a story behind the new skull painting in 221b.
However, an idea that’s isolated or used against the text can’t actually fix canon, whether it’s a question of representation or characterization in general. Only a retold story can be equivalent to the canon story. You can’t say either ‘John is bisexual’ or ‘Gansey is bisexual’ without telling the story showing that he is; that is, you can (and people do) certainly see it, but it has to be a deep, internally consistent reconceptualization of the entire narrative. At that point, it’s not an idea or a headcanon, so much as an entire reading. A full story, if only told to yourself. I think that’s why I was so drawn in by some of the meta behind TJLC (as opposed to any other Grand Theories in Sherlock fandom). TJLC spoiled me, because it is absolutely unique in that it’s a fully realized reading that creates that internally consistent, epic continuity I said I was looking for in HP. Perhaps it was actually impossible in HP. As I once said, if TJLC is fanon, and perhaps especially if it’s fanon, then it’s the apotheosis of fanon: fanon as it’s meant to be. A reading that works with and improves upon the text. That’s the Holy Grail. The only thing I’d be satisfied with. TJLC or canon: accept no substitutes.
Naturally, none of this is necessary, because you can imagine whatever you want. All I’m saying is that the ordinary stuff-- your everyday headcanon-- does nothing for me but constantly induce cognitive dissonance. It seems like an exercise in denial, sort of like fake news. I couldn’t believe in most what I see even if I wanted to: it’s obviously false. The fact that other people want to is thus a source of bewilderment and some pain. Mostly, that is due to the social nature of fandom. To some degree, participating in fandom these days means interacting with other people’s headcanons (or fanon, essentially). When the majority of headcanons are of the ‘fake news’ variety, it’s a constant exercise of staging mental defenses or using mental resistance to reassert what I know to be real. It’s... not fun.
I can’t help but feel that just because you call a square a circle doesn’t actually make it a circle, even if it’s fiction. Most people do have an issue when stories don’t make sense (a source of many headcanons!) but they don’t really have an issue where the ‘fix’ itself has to make sense in context. If the viewer feels it works, then it works: that’s the nature of a headcanon. It’s why they usually drive me insane. I probably interrogate canon less than fanon, because canon has stylistic and at least some assured plot/characterization continuity. It’s easier just to understand what canon was doing, rather than inventing a whole storyline from whole cloth to fix it (as any fic writer can tell you, it takes a lot of work-- a lot more work than a headcanon patch, anyway). For most people, it seems that headcanons are different. If one works in the fan’s mind, it’s real enough. At that point, the entire fannish enterprise feels pointless to me except for perpetuating that seemingly eternal conflict: us, the Fans vs. the Story.
I think to me, TJLC was the Holy Grail ‘cause it squared the circle. It’s the fanon story that enriched and transformed, more than the sum of its parts. Naturally, it could only happen because people were only describing what we saw rather than trying to ‘fix it’. I think when you simply say what you genuinely see, and you read closely and honestly, usually it makes sense. And if it truly does make sense, it’s real. It’s true, the way great stories always are.
#sherlock feels#johnlock feels#fandom meta#me myself and i#pointless rambles#tjlc#the great divergence#reader response#characterization#narrative
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Dear Yuletide writer,
as far as I can tell from the sign-up summary, you matched with me because of either Silent Hill 3 or Avengers Academy, because I was the only one who requested or offered the other two super-tiny fandoms I nominated. if you feel like doing one of those after all, though, go for it!
I feel like...most of the fandoms I requested aren’t too likely to lead to fics with my major DNWs, probably. I wouldn’t want to see dubcon or significant manipulation in a relationship that’s supposed to be positive and healthy, for instance. I’m not opposed to explicit sex scenes of any kind, although I often end up skimming them because I’m the type of ace person who is just Not Interested in most of the physical aspects, so...you’re welcome to write sex scenes but you absolutely don’t have to feel like you need to.
in general, my biggest DNW is unhappy endings. I’m thrilled to see my favorite characters go through all kinds of hell to get there, but I like things to be okay or at least hopeful by the end. if canon is the unhappy part in one way or another, I’m always happy to read fix-it fics. Between post-canon fix-its that could reasonably happen in the future and canon-divergence AUs where things are okay now because of some mid-canon change, I have a slight preference for the former, but both are good.
as for stuff I like, well, the other thing implied by my main DNW is that I do often enjoy fairly dark fics, as long as they end okay. I also like Loki a lot, as you can probably guess from my requests. if you ended up matching me on Avengers Academy Loki and/or you want to take a stab at one of the other two Loki-centric requests, the Loki fics I’ve actually written are pretty representative of stuff I like in my Loki fics, which basically boils down to “sympathetic interpretations always, with loads of angst and/or whump on the way to a reasonably happy ending”. I tend to take a somewhat lighter tone in general with my Avengers Academy fics (I’ve written 10 of those and only one of them doesn’t involve Loki, so...yeah I have a one-track mind where Loki is concerned), although I did also write a pretty damn whumpy fic for AvAc Loki. I’m very invested in the relationship between Thor and Loki as brothers, although Thorki is usually a personal squick just because of the pseudo-incest. for things that aren’t necessarily Loki-related, I like found families and deep friendships, sibling bonds, stories about characters reclaiming their own agency from some outside force and/or figuring out how to take control of their own narratives, and probably plenty of other things that aren’t coming to mind at the moment. I’m equally good with plotty fics and little slice-of-life or introspective pieces. I will always always always be happy to see queer characters, especially asexual ones.
more detail about my specific requests, basically just expanded versions of what I wrote in my sign-up:
Silent Hill 3 (Heather Mason). I love this game and that's mostly because of Heather--she's resourceful, brave, and incredibly tough, and the game is essentially all about her reclaiming her agency (in a very literal, physical way) from people who used her for their own ends. Anything that gets into Heather's head would be great, whether it's a missing scene of some kind during the game or something afterward that explores what she does next and how she recovers from a frankly massive amount of trauma. I would also really love to see something involving Angela and/or Maria from Silent Hill 2; I'm not sure how the timelines would line up, but the way Heather basically said "fuck you, you don’t own me" to the cult makes me want to see other female characters find their own agency as well, and it would be really awesome if Heather found a way to help them do that, either by helping them directly or just by influencing the way the town operates. in general, I love these games for their atmosphere and symbolism, so anything you can do along those lines would be great.
Avengers Academy (Loki). I still miss this game. I especially miss Loki, who was a snarky little bastard but really not a bad dude. Mostly I'd be thrilled to see anything that focuses on him (or her, I super loved Loki’s canonical genderfluidity) developing actual friendships at the academy, with any characters who might be relevant (Steve, Natasha, America Chavez, Nebula, Union Jack, Angela, Jane Thor, really anybody). Working things out with Thor and/or the rest of his family is always good too; Loki's Frost Giant storyline didn't involve Thor at all, for instance, probably because it was written well before Thor was added to the game, so I'd be interested to see how things went when he found out his brother was a Frost Giant. I’m also always happy to see crossovers of some kind with other Marvel universes, especially considering AvAc was an interesting patchwork of film and comics canon; meta stuff where characters are aware of their multiverse counterparts is always fun (again, my own AvAc fics are pretty representative of what I like...and if you wanted to build off anything in those, I’d be thrilled). and hey, if you want to pick up or expand on any of the plot threads the game never really got around to, like more about the Academy’s supposed mole, the actual nature and origin of the timefog, or other worldbuilding-related stuff, that would be awesome. I’d also be happy to see something post-canon, showing what characters are up to now or doing some kind of reunion.
Loki: Where Mischief Lies - Mackenzi Lee. I had a lot of issues with this book and I'm not sure how much of that is just me not appreciating what the author was doing with an unreliable narrator (in part because I'm already pretty attached to certain interpretations of Loki) and how much is the author not quite doing it right, but I'd love to see something that would...make it make sense internally in terms of Loki's motivations and actions. It doesn't necessarily have to be a fix-it, although I'd love one of those too, with Loki reuniting with Theo and/or actually reconciling with his family. A giant crossover that includes this Loki with other major versions of Loki could be fun too. I’m planning to write up some kind of actual review to articulate what about this book didn’t work for me, and I’ll update this post with a link when I do that, although...again, I know nobody else offered or requested this one. (if you think it sounds fun or you just want to read this book in general, my library actually has the ebook on Hoopla, so it’s worth checking to see if your library does too.)
Marvel Contest of Champions game (Loki, Thor). The way this game handles Loki continues to piss me off--sometimes it's kind of fun and it strikes a similar balance to recent comics as far as his loyalties and motives are concerned, but most of the time it's like "here's our Loki, his design is based on current comics Loki who's mostly an antihero or even sometimes a hero now, and here's an event storyline explicitly based on the MCU where Loki literally had a redemption arc and a heroic death, but our Loki is still a villain because of reasons". I want the game to fix that, but if they won't, I'd settle for fic. like with Loki: Where Mischief Lies I know nobody matched with me on this one, and this one is probably less accessible--I mean, the game is totally free, but I think all the Loki content so far has been in event storylines, which means you can’t really pick up any of that now (unless somebody on Youtube has been very thorough, I guess; I’ve done some grumbling in my CoC tag but it’s not really helpful as a background). so unless you just happen to have been playing this game regularly for the last few years, it probably won’t work to pick up this one.
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Three-Continents Watson (does not exist)
We all have our pet peeves and things we wish we could excise from fanon by brute force if necessary... or is that just me? If I could, I'd make every current Johnlock fic writer rewatch TSoT, but particularly pay attention to this part:
SHERLOCK: Do you have an international reputation? (He settles his head down and closes his eyes again.)
JOHN: No, I don’t have an international reputation.
SHERLOCK: No. (x)
John doesn't have an international reputation: he's not Three-Continents Watson in BBC Sherlock. QED.
I'm honestly not sure if most people were just not paying attention and/or misunderstood this part (not too unlikely) or they're consciously dismissing explicit canon. This wouldn't be unusual either. I imagine that the truth is the fanon John thing occurred before Series 3, so fanon simply... perpetuated itself, as it does. I mean, if the events of Series 3 had any effect on John's characterization, it was to make him more consciously bisexual and/or more repressed, sometimes less devoted to Sherlock. Fics and fans themselves differ on how John feels about Mary. However, it didn't really have a huge impact on John's past except for Sholto, the details of which I suppose is considered the land of free-for-all headcanons. I just... really can't stand Three-Continents Watson 'cause it's explicitly jossed now, and also because this is just... not John. Even if it's canon Watson, John isn't that comfortable with himself or even that extraverted. He tries to 'get off with Sarah' in TBB (and all the other girlfriends), but he's not really particularly successful. Women may give him a chance, but he doesn't really give *them* a chance. He's only a 'great boyfriend' to Sherlock Holmes. Like, he's not even a very good husband to Mary, either. He's just... not that guy.
I suppose here I'm suggesting that my real problem is with fanon John, and I guess that's probably true, 'cause I've certainly complained about fanon!John a lot, though that once led to wonderful discussions on the history of the fanon. Still, I find fanon in general is more tolerable without stuff like this, which simply goes directly against explicit canon, and people seem to totally ignore. That's what gets me. It's that people actually seem *unaware* this is against canon. Although I suppose this isn't atypical, in the sense that most of the aspects of fanon I've always been most frustrated with are essentially things I feel are misreadings. Like... for example, anything a fic says about Sherlock's relationship to Irene is going to end up being an implicit reading of ASiB, and I will inevitably have to agree or disagree with it. It's a bit ridiculous, I suppose. But like, it seems unlikely to me that someone would write or draw stuff based on the idea that Sherlock had a night in Karachi where he had sex with Irene without thinking it's already canon he genuinely felt interested in her in ASiB in the first place. And, of course... that's not canon. That's up to interpretation, but mostly only plausible if you have het-goggles on. Not something I want to see used in my Johnlock fics (or fanart).
I think I actually always used to complain about this before as needing 'TJLC-friendly' characterization in fics, though really I thought of it as 'canon-friendly'. That is, it was always about canon to me, not my personal readings or headcanons. And so, for me, of course what's 'canon-friendly' changes in a way fanon or TJLC as a frame doesn't, and the definition also depends heavily on people reading canon the same in the first place (which I realize is quite a hurdle to clear). On top of that, I've said before that ideally, I'd like to read fics that are 'in the spirit of canon' (as in, reflecting Sherlock's arc), which is naturally an even greater hurdle. I think I've sort of accepted that these are going to have to be bonus goals: upper-level stuff. You can at least apply 'don't like don't read' to that sort of thing, 'cause it defines a whole fic. With the factual canon details, though, there's really no warning, and I've seen it even in fics that worked for me and/or I've otherwise enjoyed, which is just... strange, but probably understandable 'cause I myself remember all that stuff due to extensive meta writing/reading experience most people probably lack. I understand all this, but still.... Still. It bothers me, probably especially 'cause I'll admit I'm pretty sensitive about John and Sherlock's romantic/sexual history in particular.
Like, with Sherlock, we're not just talking about referring to an older post I'd made arguing on the subject: I have a whole *tag* for 'virgin Sherlock', haha. I mean, it seems obvious that John and Sherlock's past is implicitly the realm of open season for fanfiction, but at the same time.... I've thought about this a lot in terms of analyzing the characterization and the canon references we do have, because I consider them to be an important aspect of the show, as I've discussed with regards to Sherlock's arc just recently. And remember what I said about looking for fics that echo or recreate Sherlock's arc in AUs (although this issue mostly refers to canon-universe fics, and I'm a lot more open with AUs). This is definitely part of that. I genuinely think that particularly with Sherlock, you cannot give him a romantically/sexually experienced past and end up in a place that's going to be anything like HLV, let alone TFP. It's much more flexible with John in my mind, which why I mostly get stuck with the *label* of Three-Continents Watson and the whole 'international reputation' thing specifically, rather than the *idea* of John being extensively experienced with sex (which is fine even if still unlikely, as I said).
#fanfic meta#sherlock feels#johnlock feels#john watson things#characterization#oh fandom#the sign of three#series 3#me myself and i
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The Unspoken Truth about Shipping
I know I insisted yesterday (shouting it into the void for the millionth time) that seeing canon Johnlock isn't about shipping, and it's not like that's not true, but. The fact is that even if it were so, Johnlock isn't 'just another ship' no matter how you slice it, because all ships aren't equal on any analytical grounds. Any such equality is purely social. However, that can essentially be invisible because discussion of shipping is generally in the context of it as a social phenomenon, to do with cliques, popularity or unpopularity and/or social capital and the lack thereof. In other words, it's treated independently from characterization, as a pure expression of fannish whim or desire. And this would be fine, as long as the people doing so retained a measure of self-awareness, akin to the one slash fans used to have about the fact that they were slashing. Not *exactly* the same way, though, because slashers certainly helped pioneer this mentality that all slash ships are equal, if only equally non-canon.
Overall, clearly there are strong social forces at play in fandom to the effect that all ships are 'equal' insofar as they're all subjective preferences. And there's a certain, more broadly popular, polite fiction these days that all subjective feelings in general are equivalent to each other. Of course, this is understandable, because if left to their own devices, people will discriminate against others and claim one preference is morally superior to another. This is even true about ships. So to prevent or counteract such moralistic attacks, people say that all subjective preferences are the same and must all be respected, where such respect just means 'stay in your own lane'. Basic common sense, really. On a purely rational level, however, even aside from canonicity, it's clearly *not* all the same. More broadly, feeling that something is 'true' or believing in a pairing's validity generally doesn't actually make it real, plausible or genuinely workable for the characters in the context of fanfic. Note, I'm assuming you're talking specifically about 'shippy' or romantic fic that supports its pairing, rather than a PWP where two people simply have sex for no particular reason or a fundamentally abusive/unsatisfying relationship.
As an easy example, look at something really random or cracky like Sherlock/Jeff Hope, the cabbie, and compare it to Johnlock. You can talk about canonicity and the degree of canon interaction and apparent compatibility or personal interest the characters have in each other, like @ivyblossom has recently. In that sense, it's not that Sherlock/Jeff Hope is 'superior' (or inferior) to say, another protagonist/antagonist pairing like Sherlock/Moriarty (though this is fandom, so some people would certainly say so), but at the very least, Sherlock spent more time with and had paid more canonical attention to Moriarty, which makes it more plausible. (Note, Sherlock/Moriarty is still really implausible and is also counter to everything Sherlock stands for, but at least it's less cracky and could be explored in a dark AU). This is the difference between Ivy's Stage 1 and Stage 2 type ship. I guess I'm just saying you can definitely go deeper than that, given you're open to analyzing the potential relationships through the lens of the characters and interpersonal psychology in general. This probably goes without saying, but not all relationships are equally plausible either in real life or in fiction, and they're also not all equally well-advised or likely to last. Common sense for most people, really, though some folks will insist any relationship's success is only dependent on the work the people involved put into it. To some degree that's true, but that doesn't mean there's not a *limit* to the kind of success we're talking about. Factoring in basic compatibility means that for some couples, a lot of work and effort would add up to... a sort of fond tolerance. There's only so much you can do if someone's not sexually compatible with you, either due to chemistry or sexual orientation, for example, and that's just scratching the surface.
Remember, I'm saying this without suggesting any sort of moral judgment. Regardless, surely that is common sense. There is no universe where Sherlock and Jeff Hope are equally well-suited as a couple as Sherlock and John-- and I mean this purely on an interpersonal psychology and/or romantic narrative level. I don't mean people shouldn't *ship* Sherlock with Jeff Hope, of course. I mean, who cares (obviously not me). The point is that shipping them, or even postulating that relationship, would have to exist in a fundamentally different space in regards to the characters, the text, and probably reality in general. To make it work, you'd have to do certain things to the canon character of Sherlock which are automatically OOC, more or less, and even then it wouldn't last or go past a certain shallow level. The kind of relationship you can achieve is limited by the nature of the characters and their established dynamic, on some level, if they're going to remain recognizable as the two characters in question. Writing and using your imagination can certainly make a lot of unlikely situations feel real, but it's not magic.
On some level, I'm sure we all understand this, which is why I called the whole 'ship and let ship' reductionist fandom philosophy a polite fiction. Talking one on one with other fans, at a con or in a private chat, I really doubt many people would claim there's some sort of purely abstract equivalence between Sherlock/Jeff Hope and Sherlock/John for the actual characters. At least, unless the person in question was a really committed, pure philosophical subjectivist (which most people aren't). Anyway, obviously the whole thing is a defensive strategy to do with some people's hurt feelings and the need for self-justification. Plenty of people in fandom go so far as to dismiss or belittle the validity of actual canon or 'Stage 5' ships for whatever artificially constructed reason (it's not plausible or otherwise good enough, it's too 'abusive', it's out of nowhere, etc). So the bar for denial and dismissal is already quite low, since it applies to actual facts, let alone people's analyses. People also tend to assume every argument has to come down to a moralistic debate, so a false dichotomy gets created in fandom, where either one accepts people's preferences or one is automatically telling them how to feel about things. I get this. I just... find it frustrating, and so had to explain my passions on this matter yet again.
#fandom meta#shipping#reader response#the great divergence#sherlock feels#oh fandom#me myself and i#characterization#johnlock feels
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