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emletish-fish · 2 years

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Frankly, I feel Amanda should've been way more conflicted about helping Tory. Like, she should be like, "Yes, these kids deserve better influences, but on the other hand, Tory here twice committed premeditated assault on my daughter and she's broken into our house".

(For Tory to be redeemed, and any sort of reconciliation to happen, she needs to learn to be empathetic to those she's hurt, and she needs to be shown acknowledging why her prior behavior was wrong)

It's a YMMV with the how people see the Mom-Triangle. If you found it unsatisfying, that's valid.

I also think the reason why everyone's mileage varies so much with the mom triangle will depend on whether people have a solution based outlook (what will solve the problem/get the best outcome is the priority) or a more punitive punishment orientated outlook (has the wrong-doer being punished sufficiently is the priority).

I unironically love it as a storyline. It was refreshing for me to see a female-centric storyline that was in many ways kinda removed from the karate drama and was instead focused on the relationships between women, and the role of a good female mentor/mother figure.

(I'm trying not to make too many predictions for season 5 aside from 'it will be batshit insane' BUT I think we will see Tory torn between two very opposing view-points, role-models and example of womanhood between Amanda and her new female sensei, (who in many ways will embody a potential cobra-kai embracing future that the old Tory would have aspired to. Whereas Amanda is presenting a much more compassionate example of adult womanhood and shows Tory that it is possible to be both powerful and peaceful).

I do think Amanda showed sufficient ambivalence towards Tory and some uncertainty about helping her during their second interaction at the dealership. It's implied that Amanda backed off helping Tory then and only resumed to do so after the girl approached her. During their third interaction, she is careful to give Tory space and only encourages her to seek help but makes no overtures of direct involvement until Tory asks.

I think, given the time-constraints, more time on Amanda not wanting to help Tory wouldn't have served much purpose.

Season 4 was an immensely crowded season, story-telling wise. With such limited time, I don't quite see what having Amanda pile on the Tory-sucks-train beyond their first two interactions would serve.

Because TV is a visual medium - so we already know that Tory has severe anger issues. We've seen her do unhinged things. We know that Tory is an angry and messed up kid in a terrible situation - so Amanda spending more time complaining about her misdeeds only be re-hashing what we already know, which isn't the best use of screen time.

Also, in the storyline, if Tory didn’t receive any help, there would be absolutely no driving narrative force for her changing her behaviour for the better. Without Amanda;s intervention, then Tory would most likely continue feeling like the entire world was out to get her and lashing out accordingly.

Amanda meets Tory when she directly confronts her at work, taking full advantage of their power-imbalance and contributing to Tory getting fired. Yes - Tory gets herself fired by her angry outburst, (Tory having anger issues is well established), but Amanda can see she had a role to play in lighting the dynamite and feels contrition.

Amanda can choose to continue being shitty to a girl who already has an immensely hard life (that Amanda just made a whole lot harder) - but what would that ultimately serve the narrative? Seeing another adult bullying Tory/assert their power over her wasn't necessary for me. It's not something I would have found satisfying as a viewer.

We've already see Tory be sexually harrassed, propositioned and financially bullied by her landlord, fired without ceremony by her boss, and mocked cruelly about her dying mother by her aunt (her only living blood relation). We know money is extremely tight, her father is absent and her family had periods where they were starving and had food denied to them by cruel bosses (who also then fired her sick mother). It's implied she was sexually assaulted by an unknown adult male and had to physically defend herself.

(like enough already.)

As a viewer, I did not need to see another Adult mistreat Tory.

Tory has definitely made A LOT of mistakes. So Many. All the Mistakes. But when we look at her life, it's not hard to see why she's gained a 'It's a dog-eat-dog world' kind of cynicism and a layer of anger armour as she goes through life.

I actually think this direction, showing that Amanda also had violent anger issues but was able to work through them, is a much more positive one. Amanda is showing Tory here are other options aside from violence and compassion isn't weakness. She treats Tory gently, and considering how harsh Tory's life is, just being treated kindly by an adult without ulterior motive causes a huge change.

Tory's outlook completely shifts from 'No Mercy - there are no rules' to 'No. I won't cheat to win.'

What we didn't know at the start of the season is that Amanda had a rich history of Violent Teenage Rage and could see part of herself reflected in Tory's anger issues. Amanda identifies with Tory as a result. And she knew from experience the best way to break a pattern of violence and anger is with its opposite, kindness and understanding.

Rather than fighting fire with fire, Amanda chooses to try and take the heat down a notch.

Young!Amanda was treated with compassion and guidance, so she was able to grow past her anger. She's still feisty and assertive, but her rage no longer consumes or controls her.

Tory does not have anyone to show her this kind of compassion and guidance until Amanda comes along.

(For Tory to be redeemed, and any sort of reconciliation to happen, she needs to learn to be empathetic to those she's hurt, and she needs to be shown acknowledging why her prior behavior was wrong)

I don't think Tory needs to reconcile with Sam to be redeemed. Tory's attempts at being a better person should continue whether or not Sam eventually forgives her.

It would be great if the girls can eventually bury the hatchet, and Tory definitely should apologise to Sam at the very least - but I also don't think her 'redemption' should revolve around Sam.

You've said that Tory needs to learn empathy, but for me, considering absolutely no one in her life treats Tory with any sort of empathy, this will be a hard thing for her to learn on her own without any kind of lived experience or role models.

(This is not a dig at Tory's mom, who we've never even seen, but her illness has thrust the full weight of keeping a family of 3 running on her 16/17 year old daughter. Tory is responsible for earning rent money, preparing food, paying bills and supervising her brother. No matter how warm and loving their relationship, the physical reality of Tory's situation is unchanged).

But who else could teach Tory about morals and ethics and how to make amends and live a better life? Kreese? Her creepy and inappropriately sexual landlord? Her spiteful, greedy addicted aunt?

I will say that Tory suffers from very uneven writing, depending on what the writers want to do with her in that particular scene (eg her yoyo-ing concern about her family is very dependant on her proximity to Sam), and this can hurt her character arcs as she engages in some inexplicable dramatics for the sake of The Dramas!

However, showing that Tory will respond equally as emphatically to a positive role model in Amanda as she did to a negative role model in Kreese, is actually a really interesting step. Tory has an incredible amount of respect for Amanda and really takes onboard everything she says.

She isn't immediately a better person and she still makes bad choices, but overall, she shows that she is extremely receptive to Amanda and is beginning to absorb her world-view.

Learning the importance of conducting herself honourably in a fight was something Tory clearly learned from Amanda, (not Kreese or Silver). Amanda wanted BOTH girls to be able to move on and find peace and they were never going to be able to do that if Tory cheated (something she was later pressured directly to do by the other adult she respects the most).

It was easier for Tory to believe in the importance of fairness when she finally had a taste for it herself, when she wasn't broke and overburdened by the weight of caring for her family, when she didn't feel like there were no rules in life. Amanda helping her was instrumental in Tory growing. Finally getting a bit of sunlight helped her bloom.

Tory's life has been very unfair, and she's a poverty stricken and vulnerable young woman who easily embraced a 'no mercy' mindset because that was how she had always been treated, so this worldview slotted neatly into her lived experience.

Amanda showing her mercy caused her to re-evaluate her deeply held convictions. Tory's actions in the final prove that, at her core, Tory does want to be a better person and live a better life.

#Emletish Answers #Cobra Kai meta #Tory Nichols #Amanda LArusso #Sam Larusso #The mom-triangle #Do I think the mom triangle was perfect?#no there were definitely some messy bits #but in general it was such a suprising and optimistic and refreshing storyline #so I forgive it all the foibles because the overall arc is great #like tory has fucked up a lot #but she has also being shat on completely by life from every angle #how is she ever going to learn compassion if no one ever shows her any #how is going to learn about justice and mercy and honour if she never experiences it for herself directly #her behaviour towards sam is off the charts #but more punishment and an even shittier life isn't going to help her learn how to let go of her anger at Sam #which I would argue is more rooted in her resentment of Sam's privilege than anything else #Like Tory's done bad things but Amanda treating her with respect really turned things around for that girl #Tory could definitely benefit from more consistent writing #She has treated Sam absolutely terribly and Sam is completely justified in her unforgiving stance regarding Tory #But Tory is still just a kid in a totally shitty situation with no support #but when she's given love and support she really blossoms #And i just kinda like all the kids and want the best out come for all of them #tory and amanda #tory and sam

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