Hi! I see you're a radblr and a lesbian, which is great, because I'm trying to understand something but I feel like I'm biased (I'm hetero) and can't see the lesbian perspective properly. I'd like to ask this to my irl lesbian friend but I'm too afraid of sounding rude. I hope you can help me understand better!

So. Let's forget about personality (which is the most important thing for sure) for a second and let's talk about physical attraction only. Lesbians like women. Lesbians do not like men. So it's reasonable to assume they are attracted to the female body characteristics which differ from the male body (like breasts, large hips, female genitals, etc) just like hetero men are. Ideally, the more feminine the trait, the more attractive it should be, right?

So, why are many lesbians attracted to the 'butch' type? From my (biased) perspective, butches are like tomboys, so they seem to want to appear less traditionally feminine (example: short hair - not a male characteristic per se, but it is associated to men because most men have short hair; we could discuss this theoretically, but the social bias is undeniable and no one can escape it). Butches share many characteristics (like style, mannerism, etc) with men, to which lesbians should not attracted. But this is disproven by evidence, since many lesbians like butches! Help. I'm terribly confused.

Hi there, thanks for the question! You mentioned that you understand that lesbians are attracted to female body characteristics (such as breasts, wider hips, female genitals.) A woman has these female characteristics regardless if they’re butch or femme. Butch women may be masculine on the outside appearance or through personality, but at the end of the day they have female sex traits that those who are only attracted to males would not find attractive in any capacity. Butches may try to “hide” these bodily female characteristics, but when in a romantic or sexual relationship with someone you’re going to see what their body actually looks like. Short answer is: butches are females, men are males. It’s entirely possible to be attracted to masculinity but find male sex traits (such as no breasts, deep voice, beards, or penis) revolting or not attractive. Straight women who are attracted to feminine men are not homoSEXuals because of this, just as a lesbian isn’t heteroSEXual for liking butches. Same stuff for masculine gay men who attracted to feminine gay men.

You said “Ideally the more feminine the trait, the more attractive it should be?” which I disagree with. Femininity and female have no correlation at its core, as one is of a biological basis and the other is of a societal basis (though they tend to align, I believe masculinity is the natural state of all people anyways and girls are socialized to be very feminine.) ‘The more female a trait, the more attractive it should be to a lesbian’ is a better phrase, but femaleness comes in all sorts of appearance so it doesn’t really indicate anything or make much sense. You brought up short hair as an example of the similarities between men & butches, which i will agree on, but once again, this doesn’t erase the simple biological difference between a man and a butch. I actually happen to be a butch in a relationship with a femme, so i’m going to offer both my viewpoint, and hers:

As a butch who’s generally only attracted to femmes, I used to not be attracted to masculine women or butches. I still am not for the most part. It took a lot of unpacking internalized homophobia & heteronormative social standards for me to understand why. Everyone is raised to believe that the masculine belongs with the feminine as a child, and gay children are not exceptions to this. I think it’s been ingrained in me since a child that the type of person I should be attracted to is a feminine person. I’ve known since childhood that I was not feminine in the way my female peers were, as I’ve always been pretty masculine. When in elementary and early middle school, the boys I “liked” have all turned out to be feminine gay men (lol.) I never really was attracted to these boys of course, but I was attracted to femininity in females and it was the best I thought I could get. I thought that since I had to be with a boy, I would logically just be with a feminine one. When I understood that being lesbian was an option, I never looked back. It’s hard for me to unpack that me being attracted to a masculine woman isn’t me being attracted to a man, and I know this subconsciously is why I say i’m not attracted to butches much at all. I could possibly be attracted to a butch, but i think socialization has its claws gripped into me (and also just a mix of the fact that femininity is my personal preference in a lady.)

I asked my femme girlfriend her thoughts on this, and this is a summarized version of what she had to say (she thought I was asking about myself):

“[A butch] may be mistaken for a man, or be read as a man at first glance, but when you take a closer look it’s undeniable that you’re a woman. Your eyes are beautiful and feminine, you have a gorgeous feminine body & chest. Your hands are soft, small, & delicate (and no i’m not trying to poke fun at your insecurity i’m being serious) When you smile it’s even more obvious that you’re a woman. I am attracted to your masculinity of course, I love that you have muscles, the way you dress, [redacted personal hobbies], your short hair, how in control/dominant you are. I also love your curves, your soft voice, and smooth skin. & you don’t have the personality of a man, you just pick up hobbies and mannerisms most women are afraid will make them appear “manly.” You actually convinced me to start doing [redacted personal hobby] that i never even considered before because I thought of it as something that boys or men do and now I really enjoy it.”

Sorry if this is a bit of a word vomit or not comprehendible, but i wanted to explain as best as I could lol

person basically forcing other people to like all genitals and if you don’t attracted to one of them, „you are not valid”

what about lesbians? what about gays? straight people? you’re basically forcing the whole society to become bisexual 😭😭

everybody ganster until i say that my feminism includes only females because females are the only of the two sexes being historically oppressed. men in dresses are not and never will experience real sexism.

everybody gangster until i say that once we start letting transgender identified males into female spaces (ie: rape shelters, bathrooms, changing rooms, saunas) then soon all males will be welcome, whether they have good intentions or not.

everybody ganster until i have the most lukewarm feminist take on transgenderism that was widely accepted before men found out they could get away with hate crimes against women by pretending to be one of us.

If you tell a lesbian that she has to change her sexual attraction and to somehow start loving dixk ..Then my friend you are the bigot and a homophobe .

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It's honestly astounding how many people do not know that gender is a construct to impose power over women. Gender roles were created by men to control women and it's so easy to see when you understand that. And they are well crafted into girls minds from a young age.

Girls are meant to be quiet (so when they need to shout for help they won't know how or are taken for crazy ones).

Girls shouldn't move so much (so when they need to flee, run from danger men will catch them easily)

Girls should look a certain way (so when they aren't they will self deprecate and become easy to control, buy whatever there is from men so they can appeal to a man)

Girls should put others before themselves (so when they are hurt by men, men's feelings are more important than their)

Girls are meant to be petite (so when there's a threat they won't be able to fight back)

Girls should impose gender roles on each other (so when they say it's men's fault, men say they did it to themselves)

The amount of fantasies focused on cocks in the lesbian tags is disgusting and astonishing. I'm tired that males need to invade our spaces and make it about their dicks. It's not even fun anymore.

Dude, you're not a butch, you're a man and no, I don't want to read about your gay male sex fantasies or straight fantasies.

Also the entitlement and lack of empathy towards women triggered and repulsed by penises (you know. The actual lesbians there) is...not surprising. But you won't convince me it's not a form of violence and abuse.

Two men hit on lesbians and get mad that they don’t reciprocate back, then proceed to shoot the music venue up.

How are we supposed to feel safe?

When the pulse shooting happened in 2016, I was only 12 years old. I still remember watching the news of what had happened at my grandmas house while she was watching me for the day. I was filled with fear. I didn’t know that so much hate existed towards gay people and this was my first time ever witnessing it. My family was pretty accepting of gay people, and so was everyone else I knew. It was the first time I realized that there were people out there who hated me enough to kill me.

I was only 12, but I vowed to myself then that I’d never go to a gay club or event, and I still haven’t to this day (due to a mix of fear and general laziness)

It’s just a bitter reminder that these spaces will never be truly safe. My mind will wander every time I step foot into one of those organizations about the possible threats.

I can’t even express how bad I feel after reading this..

how do you as a trans woman claim to be woman and all about womanhood but end up being more misogynistic than a straight man, disgusting

yeah we do. very few of us genuinely feel 100% comfortable and safe around you. maybe if you werent misogynist pieces of shit it would be different. hope this helps!

It always pisses me off when gendies use bisexual supremacy as a way to say that everyone feels attracted to both sexes and that what actual same-sex attraction is just "gender" based attraction.

Like genital preference? Literally only bisexuals have that. Homosexuals have a requirement, not a preference. Lesbians can not like penis. A lesbian is a same sex attracted female. Gay men can not "prefer" vulva because then they are not gay!

"Gender" based attraction? Literally only bisexuals can like feminine women and feminine men only based on their femininity. The only "gender" lesbians can like are the ones who are female, masculine or feminine or androgynous. Does not matter, she just has to be female. There is no "gender based attraction" for homosexuals.

"Vagina fetishest" Literally bashing lesbians for being lesbians. A sexual body part can not be a fetish. A fetish is literally attraction to a nonsexual object or thing. Like a foot fetish, a foot is a nonsexual body part. And they never do this to bisexuals. They never call them genital fetishists.

It does not matter when, or how, or why. If you are not bisexual in some way, you are a bigot.

I just hope they leave us tf alone.

☀️ I’m Sunny

I am a 26 year old lesbian (defined: biological woman who is only romantically and sexually interested in other biological women)

For nearly a decade I used to identify with the following labels: asexual, agender, and nonbinary. I used to use they/them pronouns. I currently do not conform to the ideology of the modern LGBTQIApeepeepoopoo cult. I now recognize the true reason I felt attached to those labels is not true Gender Identity Disorder/Gender Dysphoria and that my trauma, mental illness, and/or neurodivergence was weaponized against me to indoctrinate me. I would like to connect with others and learn as much as I can.

Thank you, peace and love 💕 ✌️