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midnight-raven · 3 months

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Hazbin Hotel Fankids Ideas

ARIA MAGNE

Charlie and Vaggie’s Daughter.

Kind-hearted, always willing to help someone in need, and has a slight temper.

Talented singer, fierce fighter, speaks fluent demonic and spanish.

Growing up, Aria has met Lucifer a handful of times but she’s never met Lilith.

Has heterochromia; a pink and a yellow iris.

Her full demon form has wings, horns, and she wields a sword and shield.

Wants to help her mothers dream come true, and is insecure about being heir to the throne.

On occasions, Lucifer sends her a rubber duck for her birthdays.

OSCAR

Alastors’ Son

Oscar is a Shadow that Alastor brought to life as a deer demon and raised (without revealing the truth of his origins)

Polite, curious, has little social skills and a slight dark sense of humor.

Has antlers, one is half broken.

Collects old records and other relics.

Talented chef; cooks Hannibal Lector style.

Loves visiting Rosie in Cannibal Corner.

Smiles often but not as much as Alastor, and inherited a sliver of his powers.

HOPE

Husk & Angel Dusts’ Daughter

Nickname is ‘Wild Card’

Independent, feisty, and fiercely protective of the ones she loves.

Has wings, sharp claws, a second set of arms, and can cough up web-balls.

Hopes to someday break her Dads free of their contracts.

Has a strong dislike towards Overlords.

Adores Fat Nuggets.

The big sister to everyone in the youth group, she makes the best ice cream sundaes and milkshakes.

THE SNAKELINGS

Triplet sons of Sir Pentious.

FANG; The Leader (self proclaimed since he hatched first) Adventurous, Loyal, Assertive.

COYLE; The Powerhouse. Energetic, Playful, Impetuous

WRENCH; The Inventor. Timid, Curious, Imaginative.

Each of the snakelings adore their Dad and will do anything to help him.

The Egg Bois are the best babysitters/uncles.

THE VEES 2.0

VERA; Daughter of Vox

One of Hells most popular Influencers. Works with her Dad to promote Voxtec products on Voxtagram.

Has Techonopatic powers that she uses for her vlogs, and to stream shows with her friends.

Online; Vera is bold, confident and a tad boastful. Offline, with Virgil and Valerie, she’s fair, playful, and quieter.

VIRGIL, Son of Velvette.

Works as an enforcer for the Vees; dealing with unsatisfied customers, incompetent employees, etc.

The strong and silent type but is more talkative when around his mother and friends.

In his free time, Virgil enjoys sketching and spending time with Vera and Valerie.

VALERIE; Daughter of Valentino.

Passionate and Affectionate; Daddy’s Little Princess

Valentino spoils her with gifts but doesn’t let her out of V Tower very often, and scares off any suitors that look her way.

Only friends are Vera, Virgil, Kitty, and her litter of queeves.

HENRY HAVOC

Son of Katie Killjoy & Tom Trench

Blunt, Arrogant, & Insolent (Basically a Mini Sociopath)

Has to wear a muzzle and gloves because he both scratches and bites.

Works as a cameraman for 6 6 6 News, mostly so his parents can keep an eye on him.

(Sorry, that’s all I got)

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wolfasketch · 3 months

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Chaggie and HuskerDust kiddos!!

I'm also kinda shipping them together...

Solo and Info sheets:

#Hazbin Hotel #Hazbin Hotel OC #Hazbin Hotel OCs #Hazbin Hotel Ship Kids #Ship Kids #Hazbin Hotel Chaggie #Chaggie #Hazbin Hotel HuskerDust #HuskerDust #Hazbin Hotel Penny #Penny #Penny Morningstar #Hazbin Hotel Lu #Lu #Do Angel or Husk have canon last names??#Also #Penny's outfit is based off the background from the More Than Anything song

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sotjel · 2 months

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my chaggie kid, bennett and radiostatic one, verity

#hazbin hotel #hazbin hotel ocs #chaggie #radiostatic #ship children #ship kids

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incorrect-hazbin-hotel · 12 days

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Aurora: *accidentally kills someone* “Oh jeez!”

Aurora: *sees Niffty kill a cockroach* “Holy moly!”

Aurora: *escapes a near-death experience* “Okie dokie, that was intense!”

Vaggie: “Aurora, just say ‘fuck,’ for the love of God-“

Aurora: *looks up at her* “…”

Aurora: “Fudge.”

#hazbin hotel #hazbin oc #chaggie kid #aurora morningstar #charlie x vaggie #Charlie and Vaggie’s daughter #incorrect quotes

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hazbin-corner · 15 days

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Can we hear about the Chaggie fan kids?

Of course! (I really need to make more posts on them tbh 😭)

So- Victoria isn’t my oc per say, but friend is okay with me posting-

So after Antoinette was born, Charlie REALLY wanted a baby and it took some time for Vaggie to really come around to the idea, especially since Charlie was also hyper focusing on the hotel. So Vaggie had carried her, fairly basic pregnancy and such, and when Vic was about… 9 months old (maybe a little younger or older), Charlie started falling asleep really randomly- and at first Charlie just thought it was due to taking care of Victoria and the hotel- but Vaggie felt as though something was off and encouraged her to take a pregnancy test. Which is how Violet came along.

Victoria’s the polar opposite of her sister tbh, she hangs around Luc A LOT so she tends to get into mischief, meanwhile Violet is a very shy and anxious baby, so she’s usually by herself playing (unless Vaggie makes her go play with the other kids) or with Charlie and/or Husker (she enjoys petting behind Husk’s ears). Even though they’re quite different from each other, Charlie loves her little family.

#hazbin hotel #chaggie

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barblaz-arts · 1 month

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Since the Wenclair couple have a kid. Any ideas for the Chaggie couple to have one too ?

Not right now. I usually do that kinda stuff after like a year of being into a ship, when i want to do something new. Right now i still have a lot of ideas for chaggie as a couple without any kids. I wanna play with these characters still yunno? Making an OC takes a lot of brainpower that i still want to expend of Charlie and Vaggie

#asks #i have a high school au im drawing rn and im giggling so much because it's so silly #how do u guys feel about emo charlie X jock vaggie #teen au's that dont use Charlie's canon emo phase is a bit of a waste

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tyrantonutx · 2 months

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Looking for RP Partner(s)!

Hey, hi, how's it goin'?

I'm Tyrant, 30+ s/they, and this is a Take Two attempt at finding like-minded folx, so if you happen to see a similar looking post floating around (unlikely but possible), I am in fact one and the same Tyrant, I'm just too damn impatient to wait on tumblr to fix my original blog.

ANYWAY.

I'm hoping to find some partner(s) interested in Discord RP, because I am in fact a tumblr Baby (despite the original blog being...several years old...) and the formatting on tumblr rp blogs makes me Nervous.

I've been roleplaying in various capacities on forums, discord, and chat (throwback to AOL Instant Messenger amirite?) for approximately two decades and some change. I tend to write in a casual cadence as one might suspect, and I like to adapt my replies to the thread (anywhere from several sentences to a few paragraphs is my norm). I generally prefer CANON x CANON ships, at least starting out, to get a feel for how we come at characterization and plot together before we dip into OC territory. I'm involved in a few fandoms that may in fact be wastelands but, hey, you miss every shot you don't take, so here I am!

What follows is a list of fandos, characters, and ships I'm ACTIVELY looking for, the things that make my brain buzz in all the good ways. I'm down for hearing out any plots you might have in your lovely beating hearts (or shriveled little black ones, no judgment here!) or working out plots together based on all the good things that come from two rambling fans throwing head canons and "OK BUT WHAT IF"s at each other til something sticks.

If any of these strike you as fun, or if you just think I'm gosh darn neat and wanna chat me up for the thrills, please like this post, message me here on tumblr, or send me a friend request on discord (@tyrantonut)! I'm shy af and terrible at reaching out first, thank you hereditary anxiety and Burnt Out Gifted Kid syndrome, so sometimes I need that lil nudge.

...right! The fandoms! (Please note that while I have listed characters for me vs. for you, I'm actually pretty flexible on these! I just think I write some sides better than others.)

FANDOMS

The Boys (AU preferred)

Butchie -- Billy Butcher x Hughie Campbell

Stephen King's It (Muschietti AU preferred)

Reddie -- Richie Tozier x Eddie Kaspbrak

Stranger Things (Aged up AU preferred)

Byler -- Mike Wheeler x Will Byers

Harringrove -- Billy Hargrove x Steve Harrington

Steddie -- Steve Harrington x Eddie Munson

Hannibal (NBC)

Hannigram -- Hannibal Lecter x Will Graham

Spider-Man (Comics & Movieverse)

Spideypool -- Wade Wilson x Peter Parker (Andrew Garfield)

Spiderprowl -- Aaron Davis x Peter B. Parker

Mysterio/Spiderman -- Quentin Beck x Peter Parker (Tom Holland, preferably aged up)

Hazbin Hotel / Helluva Boss Universe

Huskerdust -- Angel Dust x Husk (Overlord Husk AU has given me brain rot)

Chaggie -- Charlie Magne x Vaggie

RadioApple -- Alastor x Lucifer

Stolitz -- Blitzo x Stolas

Fizzarozzie -- Fizzarolli x Asmodeus

Glee

Puckurt -- Noah 'Puck' Puckerman x Kurt Hummel

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shortbreadly · 7 months

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What are your headcanons related to Helsa and Charlie?

i’m throwing seviathan and the rest of the von eldritch and morningstar families into this:

these are all my own headcanons, and this will be very long so bare that in mind

ok so firstly, the von eldritch family comes from Envy, and are essentially only know inside that ring. Outside of it only really helsa (and i guess sev to an extent) are famous

out of the two siblings, helsa was 100% the favourite child and garnered all the attention off her parents. seviathan doesn’t hold any grudge against her for this, if anything it’s made the two of them a lot closer

fredrick and bethesda have a very unhappy marriage, and if anything having kids made it worse. the two have always hated seviathan, but bethesda saw a publicity opportunity in helsa and exploited her for this

fredrick is leviathan’s (prince of envy) less successful younger brother, so by attempting to make helsa famous he was hoping it could bring some attention to his family and live up to his brother’s name

also leviathan has a wife called vepar, i’m pretty sure i’ve posted my designs for them on this account at some point

anyway when they were children, seviathan and helsa were good friends with charlie (finally getting into what this ask was about) and never held any hatred against each other

as they grew up the three of them were close until they reached their late teens (like 17-18)

i imagine helsa wasn’t always so bitchy, but was encouraged by her mother to befriend different demons instead of charlie to boost her popularity, leading her to get roped into the wrong crowd

helsa made new friends who pushed her into a cruel and bitchy personality, this driving her and charlie apart

in terms of charlie and seviathan, i image they were set up similarly to how stolas and stella were, but instead they were never engaged and lucifer actually wasn’t aware of this

fredrick forced seviathan to move to the pride ring to be closer to charlie, but the two of them were good friends anyway so dating seemed like the natural progression

fredrick planned that if the two of them started dating and made the headlines, it could bring some much-needed attention to the von eldritch family

this did actually work for a while but then the two broke up (haven’t figured out why) and kind of shat all over that

it was probably partly to do with lucifer finding out fredrick’s intentions and forcing them to end it, and also partly internal issues between the two, either way the two break up

i like to think the three of them have sort of made up and have reconciled as good friends (because i’m still a chaggie shipper don’t forget). now back to helsa’s growing fame

after seviathan and charlie break up, seviathan decides to cut ties with his parents, and tries to convince helsa to do the same

the von eldritch parents have always been rather abusive to the two but in different ways: seviathan physically, helsa mentally

helsa is younger and unaware of her parents’ abuse, so disagrees with seviathan and sticks with her parents. once again he doesn’t hold a grudge or anything, but he still isn’t happy about her decision

helsa is pushed into many different professions by her mother, some being model, social media influencer, and the main one being a singer

helsa, like her mother, is a siren so was born with a naturally good voice. bethesda milks the shit out of this

as bethesda is desperate for helsa to succeed, she pushes many beauty standards onto her daughter, causing her to bind her fins on her arms and legs to hide them (which causes blisters and cuts from rubbing), and applying concealer directly onto her gills (which messes with her lungs)

this is about as much of my headcanons that i can share without going into ridiculously far-fetched ones (that include my many ocs, most of which i’ve never spoken about on this account). i don’t want to border on an au, but to be honest i probably already have

#and that is how millie shortbreadly became unhealthily obsessed with two fictional characters who haven’t had an ounce of screentime #hazbin hotel #hazbin hotel charlie #charlie morningstar #hazbin hotel helsa #helsa von eldritch #hazbin hotel seviathan #seviathan von eldritch #hazbin hotel lucifer #lucifer morningstar #hazbin hotel lilith #lilith morningstar #hazbin hotel fredrick #fredrick von eldritch #hazbin hotel bethesda #bethesda von eldritch #hazbin hotel vaggie #vaggie #shortbreadly answers

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ohfuckiamsohardrn · 26 days

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i just pulled this outta my ass lmao. chaggie kid!

i never name my ocs istfg lmao, i'm always open to suggestions

#hazbin hotel #oc #hazbin hotel fankid #fankid

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aimlovesmusic · 1 year

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I’m done putting this off, I’ve decided to post this before any more big info drops.

My NG list.

Please keep in mind these are my personal ships, if you have ones that differ to mine that’s ok! I am a multi shipper so I don’t have anything against other ships unless they include incest or pedophilla.

Character + character means no romantic or sexual relationship between them.

Main

(AlxFitch)Radio game - Natalia, Keith, ???

Vaggie x Molly - tanner, Cynthia, Lola

Charlie x Molly - Eloise

Velvet x Molly - Primrose

Crymini x Baxter - Ross, Talia, 2 unnamed

Nifty x Husk - Leo, Mocha, Teia

Tom x ??? - Anji

Rosie x Mimzy - Simon, Garnet

Josh(helluva) x Hatchet - Roawn

Lilith x Lucifer - ??? Charlie’s lil bro

Cherry bomb x Sally may - Flint

Loona x Zilla - Mango

Roo x Verosika - 4 kids

Striker x Stella - 1

Millie x Moxxie

Marx x ???

Andrelipheus + Oc

Alt

Vaggie + Fitch - ???

Alastor + Molly - Rosanna

Vaggie x Charlie - Alyssa

Husk + Charlie - Samantha

(Explaining things down here.)

RadioGame a ship I’ve come to adore thanks to @jaydenknight the all time 1# shipper of this ship.

Vaggie x Molly originally: Vaggie + arackniss, a ship which I had originally just randomized a ng design for purely for practice that I got attached to. They are not in a relationship they simply had an agreement to combine their essence in a way to produce offspring (non sexual reproduce). I may retcon this and simply keep most of the designs as they are and switch it so Molly x Charlie x Vaggie is a thing and the kids simply had some bits of their looks come from grandparents as it skipped a generation.

Crymini x Baxter….. idk why I came up with this ship back in 2019 but I’ve stayed with it. Honestly I love ‘em but cannot for the life of me explain why.

Nifty x Husk is the same as Crymini and Baxter. I came up with it and stuck with it.

Tom x ???. MF had an affair and suffered for it.

Rosie x Mimzy… Alastor interduced them to eachother and they fell in love. Now they do terrifying things together as a date. Off’ing and Disappearing Mimzy’s performance Competition together is their past-time.

Josh x Hatchet… IF FITCH CAN HAVE A DEMON BOYFRIEND I SEE NO PROBLEM WITH THIS CUTE CHOAS.

Cherry bomb x Sally May… they would blow shit up together and bomb kits and weapons would be their gifts to the other.

Loona x Zilla… IDK this came out of nowhere for me.

Roo x verosika… the two designs that got me screeching like a banshee tbh. We don’t know anything about the “trash queen” that is Roo. she may no longer be cannon.

Striker x Stella. No I will not elaborate.

Mille x Moxxie. ♥️

I have not found anyone I ship Marx with sadly.

Andreli + ??? ????

The alt ones are from Random fankid requests I asked for from @itshauntedtoon I’m very I love with their designs except the chaggie kid who I have yet to design.

KEEP IN MIND THESE ARE MY OWN SHIPS THEY DONT HAVE TO BE YOUR FAV.

#hazbin hotel #venix hazbin #venix NG stuff

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a-dauntless-daffodil · 2 months

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Spear baby: (is crying/being fussy)

Vaggie: (0:35-0:43) https://youtu.be/10oPGM2_ZAc?si=udKrX2fwrUDpP14O

Vaggie: (rocking baby) "Rock. Rock. Rock. Maternal gesture."

Husk: "Woof."

Cherri Bomb: "Yikes."

Niffty: (gleeful) "I'm in paaaaain!"

Vaggie: (annoyed) "What?"

Angel Dust: "'s not an incantation or magical girl attack move, Vaggie van Gay, ya can't just say Maternal Gesture! an' expect the kid to absorb a blast of loving family energies or whatever."

Vaggie: "Wow thanks and here I thought it was actually working and them screaming LOUDER was a good thing. Got any better ideas?"

Charlie: "Maaaybe if you tried singing to them?"

Vaggie: "...."

Vaggie: "...sleeeep little baby, shut up and don't cry... uh, one of your moms is hot, and other only has just one eye..."

Hotel Crew: (cringing.jpeg)

Charlie: "Maybe I should do the singing."

Vaggie: "What? Why? That was, educational right?"

Charlie: "Childhood education usually starts with like, um, shapes, single words! Basic emotions..."

Angel Dust: "Gay is a very basic emotion."

Charlie: "...body positivity and confidence building..."

Cherri Bomb: "The eye thing."

Vaggie: "What eye thing- I DO only have one-"

Husk: "And saying it like it's the opposite of your hot girlfriend?"

Cherri Bomb: "Yeah like, rude much?"

Niffty: "Don't pass on the self hate to the baby! Give it to meeeeeeeee~"

Vaggie: "Fff- fine okay, point made. I'm not good at baby lyrics."

Charlie: "Aww Vaggie noo- why don't you try just, singing like you would for me? Like when I'm scared."

Vaggie: "For you?"

Angel Dust: "Bit early for givin' a sex education innit- Youch!"

Husk: "Shut it."

Cherri Bomb: "Don't ruin the freaking mood!!"

Vaggie: "...."

Vaggie: (slow breath) (low humming)

Vaggie: "...you've, already found so much. So many hearts you've bound- so many lives you've touched."

Baby: (goes quiet)

Vaggie: "And~ in~ the ennnd... if it's all I have to say...."

Charlie: "More than anything~"

Baby: (staring up at them)

Vaggie: "More than anything... need you to know, I love you more than anything."

Charlie & Vaggie: "More than anything..."

Their baby: (sighs) (snuggles into vaggie's shoulder) (falls asleep)

Vaggie: "...."

Vaggie: (whispers) "... charlie?"

Charlie: (whispers back) "...yeah?"

Vaggie: "I don't wanna wake them up again but uh... I can't feel my arms."

Charlie: "Oh!" (giggling) "C'mon. Let's sit down. I'll hold you, while you hold them, so you don't have to be the only one holding them. Okay?"

Vaggie: (half listening) (busy staring at baby) "Okay. Sounds good."

Husk: (SNIFFLES LOUDLY)

Charlie: "....we'll do that aaaaafter everyone else goes back to what they were doing, that is."

Hotel Crew: (grumbles and leaves, using husk's wings as tissues)

They get a package from heaven later, after Cherri smuggles a recording of a moment to Sir Pentious via Lucifer and Emily. He sent them a music box (apple shaped of course) (no sharp edges)

When they open it, two little figures of them spin together with the baby snuggle between them, and the instrumental of their "more than anything" reprise starts playing softly. their baby is fascinated and holds it tight in their tiny claws, even long after they're fast asleep

#hazbin hotel #chagige spear child au thing #chaggie #charlie morningstar #vaggie #oc kid #angel dust hazbin hotel #cherri bomb hazbin hotel #husk hazbin hotel #niffty hazbin hotel #sir pentious #silly ideas #that song already sounds like a lullaby to me anyway #all about comfort #and them promising to be there

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captainsparklefingers · 2 months

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9 FANDOM PEEPS TO GET TO KNOW BETTER

Tagged by @grayintogreen and I never typically do these but why not, you know

3 Ships You Like: Widomauk (Critical Role), Stucky (Marvel mcu and I gusss in the comics as well but that would really only apply to post ice Steve due to the whole 'thats your teenage sidekick' thing), and hm...let's go real old school and say Anastasia/Dimitri from both the movie and the musical. I've got other ships I'm interested in, I can give you several more from CR alone, but it's hard to say if there's some sort of pattern that I can pick up with what I like and get interested in. Like there's definitely ships I feel like I SHOULD like and certainly understand buy just... don't. I guess.

3 (Hazbin/Helluva) Ships You Like: okay okay okay. So, Huskerdust, M&M, both of which feel like no brainers. I really enjoy Chaggie and Cherrisnake, and I am fascinated by the deeply fucked up dynamic between Stolas and Blitzø. Look, I can see and angle for a lot of stuff here, I'm not gonna be picky.

Unless Valentino is involved. Fuck that guy, he sucks, Vox deserves better.

First Ship Ever: oh God, okay, I thiiiiink if we're not going with baby's first Mary Sue esque OCs and character I like, the first was Tobias/Rachel in Animorphs. It's at least the earliest I remember, and it still punches me in the gut. I might like my happy endings but sometimes you just need a ship that ends like a sucker punch to the gut.

Last Song You Heard: Mad World by Tears for Fears. I really like Tears for Fears and a lot of 80s New Wave music in general.

Favourite Childhood Book: OKAY LET'S THINK FOR A SECOND. CUZ THERE WERE A BUNCH. GOD. When I was real young I was a big fan of the Madeline series, the Babar books, the writings of William Steig (particularly The Bone)... there's this book called Ruth's Bake Shop that I adored, and this book called Messy Jessie that was very relatable...

But I adored the Animorphs books. So much. I got into those in the 4th grade after my favorite teacher introduced me to them and I was absolutely hooked. What a series. Honestly, I wanna reread em.

(Honorable mention to the HP series, which feels a little bit tainted now given everything but I really liked as a kid.)

Currently watching: I'm so bad at watching TV for the most part, especially by myself. But I'm rewatching Hazbin and am planning to do so for Helluva as well. I watch CR and d20 weekly, I watch a lot of Game Grumps, and I also tend to watch a lot of Mst3k and Rifftrax. Also, Julia Child. Lots of Julia Child.

Currently Consuming: I'm ALSO bad at eating in any way resembling consistent or healthy behavior...but I'm working on improving that. Right now I'm having two pieces of toast with ricotta.

Currently Craving: oh God, so many things at different times, all the time. I'm trying to develop better eating habits in general (and need to make myself cook more but the combination of my much loathed job sucking all my energy and my much enjoyed but poorly times gym classes get me home later than I'd like makes it difficult)... I guess right now I'm craving Moe's, I enjoy their burritos a lot and their El Guapo salsa is one of my favorites. Like I'd eat that shit all the time if I could.

I'm honestly not sure who to tag here...I suppose if you're in the fandom and interested, consider this an open invite?

#tag game #this was fun! i should do these more.

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neurodivergentnecessity · 4 years

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FINE YOU WIN HERE HAVE SOME RADIODUST AND CHAGGIE KIDS

I caved I saw so many cute ship kids that I decided to create some of my own.

#hazbin hotel #hazbin hotel angel dust #hazbin hotel alastor #hazbin hotel charlie #hazbin hotel vaggie #hazbin angel dust #hazbin alastor #hazbin charlie #hazbin vaggie #radiodust #charlie x vaggie #chaggie #fan child #radiodust child #chaggie child #child oc #hazbin hotel fanchild #radiodust kid #chaggie kid

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cherry-aqua-blossom · 3 years

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I want everyone to be honest with me

What if I made a chaggie kid au that’s separate from my magne siblings au?

There’s gonna be different characters and oc’s that won’t have anything to do with my Charlastor one.

I’ll still do art for my Charlastor au and ocs over there, but how would you all feel if I made another au like that but with Chaggie kids?

I would really appreciate feedback, it’s been in my mind for a few days and I’m just wondering if you all would be ok with it

#lazuli speaks #cherry speaks #chaggie #charlastor

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chriscdcase95 · 4 years

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How not to debate Ships and Shipping

I am writing this from personal experience, and from noticing bad cases of Ship Policing going on in the Hazbin Hotel and Star Wars fandom as of late. I figured a bunch of kids got too much computer time from their parents and are in need of education, because this is a more extreme throwback to the shipping wars that occurred in the Twilight and iCarly fanbase from way back when.

Since 2010, I have found myself a little immersed into the practice of shipping. At the start of this decade, I was Team Edward/Team Jacob levels of ship crazy, and here I am now with a new perspective on things.

I've even devolved into multi shipping, but I apply that when it comes to compartmentalizing fanfiction and canon. I have my share of OTP's and NOTP's (although Jemma of Every Witch Way is personally my top NOTP for multiple reasons).

Anyways, welcome to my TedTalk where I will educate you ten to fifteen year old's about how not to debate ships. Take it from an old geezer with ten years of experience, I was there in the middle of ship wars at the start of the decade.

I said in previous posts that ships are a funny thing. They should be small in the grand scheme of things, and fans put them on this great and grand pedestals. Some to the extent where people become downright psychotic bullies about the ships they like or don't like, going as far as to police ships to other fans, and sometimes creators. I think we can agree Ship Policing should be seen as toxic behaviour, right ? Well, no. I'll admit that is a complex issue, even for a multi shipper like me. I brought this up in two Facebook groups I'm in, and the basic consensus is that Ship Policing is toxic behaviour - except when they romanticize domestic violence, rape, pedophilia, etc.

But what is Ship Policing ? Simply put, telling people who they are or are not allowed to ship; bullying and shaming others over their ships; and in the biggest extreme, sending death threats and rape threats to other fans over these pairings. The Jemma fans of Every Witch Way for example, are probably the biggest example of Ship Policing, seeing as they literally got the showrunners to rewrite the show to fit their ships fanfiction AU image. But that's neither here nor there, but the point is, AU's are best left to fanfiction or It's A Wonderful Life plots.

Similarly, the Hazbin Hotel fandom had this (hopefully/mercifully one) really bad apple coming the Chalastor fandom, who went on homophobic speeches and demanding that the showrunners make Chalastor canon over Chaggie because and RadioDust- in their own words - "Gays are gross" and went as far as to send death threats to the creators. Because that will certainly make your ship canon, and not make you and yours look like the Jemma fandom.

A less malicious and more hilariously petty example comes from The Loud House fandom, where Luanny fans tend to get butthurt over fans, fics and art of the Luaggie ship, despite the Luanny already being canon and Luaggie only ever existing in fanworks. It was such a one sided non-issue, that it was the Spec Ops the Line of ship wars.

Also within the Loud House fandom there is an artist who made OC's based off of his ships AU. I'm not into the ship or AU, but I saw him getting death threats not just to himself, but his OC's as well. I may not be fully aware of the situation (like I just said, I don't follow the ship or AU), but even I can call this a toxic and illogical way of thinking.

To make a primary and personal example for this lecture, I am going to bring up the most outlandish ship discussion I was part of the past year. Some time ago, I ended up in a debate regarding Kim Possible ships in a Facebook group I posted on. In it I said I wasn't into non canon but popular ship called Kigo. When I re-watched the series, the Drakgo and Kim x Ron (the latter of which I just realized didn't have a ship name) just kind of grew on, and I felt that there were some problems with Kigo as a romantic relationship.

Now I want to make sure to point out that if you like Kigo, that is 100% okay, it is just in my opinion that it would be problematic. It's my personal opinion that if you apply their canon characterization, you'll run into the same problems Anti Reylos have with Rey and Ben. Anyways, when I said my peace, most of the Kigo's didn't make a big deal about it; they took it in stride; calmly disagreed with me and stated their stance. This is what a proper ship discussion should be. It would have been one of the most stable, non toxic discussions I was a part of. Nothing memorable was supposed to happen.

Then she came along.

Since she isn't internet famous on this site or others as far as I know, I am not going to use real names because I don't want this person to be doxxed, stalked or cyberbullied, but I will us LP as a substitute. She will be our example of what a toxic anti will look like, and our example of how not to debate or discuss a ship. Simply put, if she had the fame, she would be the TrueLoveHeart94 of the Kigo fandom (look up Dumbsville's videos on him YouTube, and you'll get a good idea of what I'm talking about).

One of the first things to use is a simple explanation for your stance. When I was explaining my stance, I explained how I came to my conclusions simply by watching the show, putting some thought into it, and making my own opinion based on what I observed. Like I said these were my opinions, observations, and at no point do I claim it to be some objective fact. At no point to attack Kigo's, at no point did I call them toxic. The most I did was explain why I find it problematic. Like I said, if you like Kigo that is 100% fine and dandy, you'll get not hate or bullying from me.

LP on the other hand, well she just couldn't accept that someone didn't like Kigo. How dare I prefer two canonically heterosexual characters in a canon het ship. How dare I commit the crime of having an unpopular, differing opinion. Even worse how dare I try to explain my reasoning.

It was one of those fan discussions. Now when I thought this was going to be a civil discussion, I asked her just why I was wrong not to ship Kigo. Why is Kim x Ron or Drakgo so toxic ? She didn't really give me a real answer; the closest she got to a coherent response was a borderline Darwinist rant about how "strong women shouldn't date weakling men".

That was what should have made me think "is this discussion worth having ?" (For the record, some of my favourite ship dynamics is with a tough or strong woman with a meek, even nerdish man so the whole "the strong shouldn't be paired up with weaklings" is a non argument to me).

Pretty soon she began breaking the following steps one should take in a debate

. Don't use double standards or Non Sequiturs - First thing you should be aware of in any debate is to actually listen too and answer you're opponents points. The talking points of dodging questions, or ignoring answers - a well as using those same answer to support your points - is an inherently dishonest tactic. If you have a point or counterpoint, it'll do you good not to use dishonest tactics to try to "win" your debates.

One of the things I had issues with regarding Kigo was one of the same points (if not the main) LP raised for the ship. As I said above one of my problems was some of the same talking points Anti-Reylo's raise. I pointed out how Kim and Shego have tried to kill each other a few times in the series, something LP both acknowledges and ignores in the exact same sentence. LP's own talking points for their relationship was their romantic/sexual chemistry could be seen in their fight scenes. This is an example of a Double Standard.

When I pointed out the abusive implications of this thought process, rather than directly answer this, LP went on to equate my point as accusing professional wrestlers of being abusive to their wives. This is an example of a Non Sequitur. She doesn't answer or address my points, and my points don't count unless they support her argument.

Double standards and Non Sequiturs in general should be avoided in any kind of debate. If a talking point is raised against you, it has to be addressed. Not doing so is a less dignified admission that you don't really have an answer.

Another example of this can be seen in the Team Edward vs Team Jacob noise; a Team Jacob fan could say that Edward was a stalker towards Bella, ignoring and dodging a counter argument of Jacob's "Nice Guy" attitude towards Bella and how he forcibly kissed her (also there's Charlie's non reaction to this, but that's beside the point). The same goes vice versa; both are problematic.

Use canon evidence to make your point - Admittedly this one can only really apply if you are making a case for a non canon ship, or pointing out problems with a canon one.

Now the reason LP was so impassioned about her arguments was her insistence that Kigo had to be canon. As she said, it wasn't enough that it was popular enough as a fanfic ship; it wasn't enough that I had to ship it; but she was trying to make the case that Kigo had to be the canon ship of the show, and she was trying to make the case for it.

TrueLoveHeart94 thought process aside, if you want to make a canon case for your ship, it'll do you good in ship debates is use canon evidence. What I am saying is there are some ships that work in canon, others in fanfiction. If you were to make a point to prove your ship would work in canon, use canon examples.

For example, I mentioned above someone in the Hazbin Hotel fandom tried to make the canon case for Chalastor....by citing their personal homophobia and making death threats towards Ashley and Vivziepop.

In the debate, I used the show to explain why I wasn't into Kigo (as well as my above mentioned reasons) and I mentioned how I didn't see much in canon to see a romantic relationship. Now I want to be clear, I saw Kigo as a fanfic based ship and I am aware that Drakken and Shego seemingly reform at the end of the series, but with canon at best I see Kim and Shego as having a sisterly relationship. I also want to be clear I am not a canon purist. There are many non canon couples I like, I am a multi-shipper after all and I can compartmentalize fanfic couples with my canon OTP's. And I am a supporter of AU's. Hell, there's even Hero x Villain ships I am into...it's just Kigo isn't one of them. I am not an anti; I don't hate the Kigo relationship or it's fan; I just wasn't into it and the canon ships just grew on me when I revisited the series.

When I asked for canon examples that Kigo could work as a romantic pairing, LP's response was to cite fanfiction and fan art as proof.

Let me repeat; I asked for canon examples to prove her point, and why my stance was wrong....and she used fanworks.

I don't think I need to explain the problem here.

To my knowledge, not even TrueLoveHeart94 uses fanfiction/art to make a canon case for Sonamy. This is the kind of straw grasping I can see Chris Weston Chandler making. I don't even know what else to say about this. I still get slacked thinking about it.

Anyway, when I said the fanfiction isn't considered canon, LP responded thusly...

Avoid Ad Hominems and slander

Okay, this one should be a no brainer; when you are in a debate of any kind, there is one thing you can do that means you immediately loose your debate. Your points no longer become valid, you surrender any argument you may have, and you prove that you are not worth debating.

Ad Hominems, personal insults, death/rape threats, racist/homophobic ranting, slander, etc.

Let's just say the nicer things LP said was calling me retarded. I am not sure if that was a coincidence since I mentioned that I was autistic earlier in the discussion.

Keep in mind, all I did throughout the discussion was answer LP's questions, and explain my stance. I even said that it was just my opinion and at no point did I claim it to be objective fact. At no point did I accuse LP of being racist; a nazi; biphobe; rape/abuse apologist; self-misogynist or misandrist; I never called her abelist (despite some of what she said above).

As for what she said to me ? Like I said, being called a retard was one of the more tame things she said of me. She kept sending me notifications that included angry, barely coherent rants, TrIgGeReD tExT, the whole nine yards.

See, this isn't how you win debates, this is how you rage quit these debates. To give you an idea of the way she was saying, I refer you to Dumbsville's videos on TrueLoveHeart94; the resemblance between LP and TrueLoveHearts comments are rather uncanny. Now for context, the discussion started approx. 6:00 to 7:00 PM...these notifications have been ongoing well into 1:30 AM.

And all this because I said I wasn't into a ship she liked.

That is when I put a stop to the discussion. I blocked LP and deleted the discussion just to be safe.

Conclusion

So as we start the new decade, I look back at how much I've seen making mountains out of molehills (shipping wars). I have seen, heard, even been part of these ship wars and discussions since 2010. My disastrous "debate" with LP is a recent example.

I do believe there is nothing wrong with discussing ships, but it has ben ten years and ship wars are just as bad as they were when Twilight hit the scene. I have heard stories of people getting threats of rape, doxing, threats to people families; people pushing others to self harm for liking "the wrong ship".

I wrote this to educate the young and impressionable in the 2020's not to repeat the same mistakes both I and others made in 2010. The fact the LP incidents is from 2019 and the incident with the Hazbin Hotel fandom are from December 2019 alone, shows that you good folks need some learning to do. Something that should be considered fun shouldn't be something worth hurting yourself or others over.

If you ever find yourself in such a debate, always remember to actually address points raised against you; don't dodge questions; if asked to provide canon reasons for why something should be a canonical OTP or NOTP, please remember that fanfiction are not considered canon examples; if you ever find yourself throwing nasty accusations, insults or threats to people's safety in a debate, then that means you lost the debate.

Hopefully you can follow this advise, and help make shipping fun again, and not something to start World War III over.

This had been my Ted Talk.

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