#obviously this isn’t anti mlm ships | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

fandomele · 2 years

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Want me to write an essay about entitled fans of fanon couples and how annoyed I am? Here I am. I don’t expect anyone to actually read it all or even respond, I just want to vent. I’ll use “mlw” for any ship that involves a man and a woman to avoid having to specify all possible orientations, wlw for two women and mlm for two men. And just to be clear, before anyone replies that there isn’t enough lgbt-ness in shows and it must be fought for, I agree. But this is not about them, it’s about entitled fans of all fanon ships who are now following a specific script to get what they want, harassing and hiding behind social justice issues.

The only reason I especially mention shippers who are into 2 famous fanon wlw couples (supercorp and swanqueen) is that it’s the same group of shippers moving from one big show to another, picking over and over the same type of female character to pair with the female hero, and projecting. But this behavior happens with mlw ships as well and mlm ships and it’s not about representation at all. We all know shippers who wanted the guy to get the girl even if she canonically dislikes him, and that meant wanting the good guy she actually loves dead, making up horrible accusations against the canon partner and the writers because the other guy should win. Or those shows were two men are shipped together and therefore the fans call for all the women in their lives to be gone, they are evil, they are badly written, whatever. I heard a mess happened in Star Wars, people shipping a mlw couple and getting the movie to change, and I have been told 99,99% of Supernatural female characters had to die because the fans hated anyone who took attention away from Dean/Sam and Dean/Castiel, but I don’t know if it’s true and I don’t know enough about those fandoms to speak about it, so I’ll only talk about what I’ve been a part of. I can’t anti-tag properly or it will appear in their ship tag. Again, I’m not talking about fans advocating for more representation in general, I’m talking about fans who are harassing real people because they want the couple they chose to be canon or to be treated as such no matter what the writers clearly mean to convey and how the show has been written up until then, or even if the show is already very pro-lgbt with non cis and non straight characters in the main cast since it’s all irrelevant to them, because what these fans really want is control over other people and their stories, and to make their fave couple (genders are irrelevant), the couple where they are obviously projecting their feelings and themselves, become canon, and they are using real life issues as a tool to get it because how can ‘silence’ someone fighting against sexism/racism/homophobia etc (and obviously it’s not what’s happening. I’m not talking about people who are right and denuncing racism, for example), because they know that mixing what they want with what is politically correct, even if it’s not true, will give them a platform, an audience of innocent people trying to find out what’s happening there, and may force a show in a different direction. Forget the fact that people who actually fight for social issues will lose credibility and the chance to make a change, the important thing is that they get what they want, how they want it, and because they want it.

If their ship is not made canon everybody will have to pay - and regardless of canon-ness these ships must be always be discussed by writers and cast as ‘equally important to the canon ships’, and these ‘fans’ are blatantly feeling good and cool about being able to harass the cast and other people because they are teaching them a lesson. I mean literally gloating about it in their posts.

And it’s scary that new, young, shippers are join fandoms and to groups where they can start feeling a sense of belonging, and these groups directly and indirectly teach them to be as extreme and rigid as possible in their beliefs, and they lead each member, step by step, into finding these behaviors normal, acceptable, and in fact also lead them to mix their own identity and beliefs with the group’s beliefs. These groups of ‘bad apple’s trajectory is towards becoming more and more extreme because each new person who joins in takes one more step away from what’s acceptable, because they feel that everything that has happened before their arrival is justified and righteous and to them the next step is very small, even if it’s a giant distance from where fandoms were at before.

*note: brief mention of rape/abuse because I mention non-canon accusations that happened in the ouat fandom + the fact that it did happen in the canon show. I mention other issues that are used against/to defend ships as well without getting descriptive, and a mention of suicidal thoughts brought up by antis once.

Honestly I feel like shippers who act entitled on social media became this way because, among other reasons, the writers and casts of tvshows were overly nice to them and not allowed to say ‘enough, I’ll block you if you insult me’ or even a simple ‘we are only celebrating canon couples, fanon combinations are infinite and we can’t address them all, so we won’t be talking about those’. Instead they had to be as nice as possible, whether it was because they didn’t want to alienate fans and lose money or because they genuinely cared doesn’t matter in this context. More often than not it’s just because they are being taught that if they don’t say yes they’ll be ‘cancelled’ by fans who are using real life issues and criminalizing actors, and they also know that nobody will dare backing them up to avoid getting in trouble with the network, or with whoever is telling them that the customer/fan is always right. You can’t tell a customer to go the hell if you are working at Starbucks and even less so in public, like on twitter, because good luck getting hired if you treat fans like ‘crap’. Doesn’t matter that they deserve it, people in charge want money and the money comes from all people watching the show, nobody should be pushed away by an actor who is trying to protect their mental health by standing up to bullies, the actor has to smile and wish them a nice day like a Starbucks cashier and allow more abuse, so that the customer will return. There are some exceptions, some people are allowed to respond, just like some cashiers can, but it’s not the norm. The norm is now writers walking on eggshells because how dare them say their story is their damn story. It’s actors not allowed to have an opinion or to explain what they are trying to portray because they will ruffle feathers. So this teaches these fans to keep going, and the more these fans gain approval the more the writers and cast bend. I remember Jennifer Morrison during ouat retweeting a fan who made, if I’m not wrong, tea-bags which were dedicated to the canon couple she was part of, and she, as a real person, was accused of supporting rape culture because antis had decided that her character’s canon boyfriend was a rapist, even if it wasn’t shown on screen (but he made references to sex! and is a pirate! so he had to be!) and therefore JMo showing that she liked her canon ship meant that she was pro-rape, not exactly a light accusation. Then they proceded to harass her so she’d say how much she liked the tea dedicated to their fanon couple - (involving a female canon rapist just to add irony). And to be clear given the nature of her job Jen wasn’t allowed to say she didn’t like that ship, because that would hurt their feelings, wasn’t allowed to say it’s a fanon ship and that she wanted to discuss canon things, wasn’t even allowed to ignore it, she’d be attacked even more than she already was. Hell, she was accused of homophobia (and of gay panic by people who clearly don’t know what that means) because she didn’t pose for photos with the other actress they shipped her with often enough (they shipped her character Emma with Regina, who was played by Lana Parilla, and shipped her with Lana), nor did enough offscreen things with her. It was clear that Jen and Lana weren’t close in real life and that the fans made it worse - but why would it matter how they feel as people, right? They had to dance like moneys for the fans. If Jen didn’t sit close to Lana it had to be because she hated that the fans would ship them or their fanon couple, not because as a human she has preferences. (Btw, if people are being weird about you and your coworker, it’s totally fine to feel uncomfortable and step away).

Sounds familiar, if you are from the Supergirl fandom? It’s the same people, yeah. The ones I mentioned at the beginning of this post. That’s why I said that it’s not ‘lgbt fans’ it’s literally the same people over and over, they just happen to project on wlw couples. But there are other fans like this as well and they have their own mlm and mlw couples to harass people for. The Supergirl cast was literally harassed by fans who wanted Kara and Lena together. Eventually during a group interview they sang about how Kara and Lena were just friends and had a laugh, which btw is a great way to fight bullies, to let them know their words can’t hurt them and they will be laughed off, and, as far as I know, to this day people who don’t know the behind the scenes will only hear that the cast of Supergirl mocked a lesbian fanon couple and its lgbt fans, cruelly, laughing at them for daring to ship two women. Homophobic monsters. All except the actress who plays Lena who was visibly upset (in the story of course, in reality she laughed too). Several public apologies had to be made to make up for this evil act. They weren’t allowed to explain or defend themselves after (because of the new rule that if someone is hurt by your behavior, explaining yourself means you aren’t apologing and you are abusive). They had to take in more abuse and shut up. Real life consequences that started from abusive tweets going unpunished and made them risk reputation and jobs, as well as led to actually lgbt people who may have looked up to them being told what ‘they had done’ and be hurt by this. Context didn’t matter, even if it’s al that actually matters because it completely changes what you saw. People genuinely believed/believe the cast was that horrible and that was cruel out of nowhere, more people have joined the fandom and bought into it, confirming their own bias whenever they watched the show and saw only what they wanted to see.

So these fans got to demand attention and to have the writers change the show for the loudest fanon ships, and to insult anyone who doesn’t feel like doing so. Not only unpunished for this but sorta rewarded for it. Sure, some shows didn’t cave and didn’t make their ships canon, but the cast had to learn how to be submissive or accept online abusive behavior. OR leave social media in a world where you need it to work, like many were forced to do. And these fans got told over and over that their feelings were ‘valid’, their ships amazing, and got even angrier because if that’s the case why not make it canon? Or got told ‘not going to happen’ and started spreading the notion that there was queerbaiting and the show should be boicotted. This is becoming a common way to react to all shows/movies with sequels, these shows are an example and in a way the place where it started and grew, but now it’s everywhere.

And I want to take the writers and say: just make a ship canon because you want to or tell them it’s not going to happen and stand by it, no more of that ‘equally valid, equally important, have to entertain all shippers’ crap. A fanon ship is not going to be equal to canon ones, it shouldn’t get equally talked about nor be included in every sentence about ships, and there is nothing to apologize for about that. It only exists in these small online places, you go talk to casual viewers and they won’t know of it, it’s not the same. And while we should all have more representation we don’t get to chose which characters get together, we don’t get to write the story. Shippers should learn to handle the truth if they haven’t yet, learn how to handle disappointment, like get a ‘you can ship who you want, it’s amazing you are so invested in our show! However x and y are the canon ship and we don’t plan on making the other one canon, I’m writing x and y together’ and leave it at that. And it should be more than possible to just say ‘this is not what I’m writing, I’m sorry’ if fans insist they are being baited because two characters look at each other. “You ship isn’t canon, it will never be canon, they told you this! So no, shippers of that fanon couple don’t matter now, they are talking about canon and your fanon ship shouldn’t be up there with the others’ “Telling me that I don’t matter because I demand to have my fanon ship constantly brought up is triggering me and making me suicidal, everybody matters all the time!’ is a take I actually read and people apologized for how ‘harsh’ they were being. The concept there was that you can never tell a person they don’t matter in a specific context, they have to matter, in all contexts. You don’t know how much of their identity and will to live a person has attached to a ship or a fandom, and you don’t get to say those words because they may be too fragile to take it (forget the fragility of those bullied every day by these people who can’t take consequences or the truth). Except that there are plenty situations in life in which you won’t matter, and that doesn’t mean that you don’t matter as a person in general. Your neighbor won’t have to think about your feelings on divorce before getting one, you don’t matter there. You still matter as a human being, in general, your life still has meaning, but you won’t and shouldn’t always be acknowledged in every situation that exists around you. And if you can’t understand this concept, if you think your opinion has to matter in all contexts and you have to be given some kind of shake of hand over it or your entire life won’t matter, because you must be important in every context ever, you shouldn’t be engaging in fandoms, you should be getting medical help asap, not making your ability to exist more fragile because it’s dependent on strangers validating you over a ship. You are putting your entire existence in the hands of a fandom, and that’s not only unhealthy but impossible to end well. Go to therapy and if you can’t afford that yet then don’t become a part of groups that require you to tie your identity to them.

Your feelings matter in the sense that you can ship what you want, not that you have the right to demand a response or approval from other actual human beings. My feeling that Jemma and Fitz from AoS (super beloved couple by fans and writers) are terrible for each other means a lot to me, I’ve been super invested for years in that show, wrote essays on why I don’t like this couple (and tagged them properly to respect the shippers), but you know what? This means nothing to the writers and that’s okay. I’m not important to them, I should not expect to have my feelings catered to with tweets that mention fanon couples I like and that ‘acknowledge’ flaws I see. I didn’t harass anyone on twitter, and I certainly don’t think that if I had shipped Jemma with someone else I should have been mentioned in canon-related tweets because ‘every ship is valid’! I didn’t expect fanon couples like Will and Alice or Flynn and Lucy (OUATIW and Timeless) to be mentioned everywhere just because some people loved them and therefore we had to be catered to: I shipped it but I sure as hell didn’t expect to make it real or to change the entire creative process of the people behind the show because I was screaming about it. I don’t expect people to pat my head and tell me what a lovely ship it is and discuss it every time is brought up on twitter. But the majority of writers/casts is trying to be submissive now so they don’t get in trouble and you can literally see posts of fanon shippers laughing about how they are in the right and they will be able to break them. And personally I think these shippers deserve actual real life consequences. No attention to your ship, which wasn’t real anyway, less screentime for it, more direct responses with ‘nope not gonna happen’ and ‘I made it, they are not real people, you can read in that scene what you want but know that’s not what I’m making it and therefore it’s not real’. No actors trying to make these people feel better. They don’t need to apologize for ships not happening or for not shipping them or for wanting to talk about their actual work. People will survive even if the writers don’t tell them just how important and incredible their fanon ship is, even more so because you are not teaching them that this is a correct way to interact with the world and they’ll learn not to expect anything. They have to learn that they may not get what they want even if they ask nicely, and that regardless of that they cannot harass people. They also have to learn that crying wolf by using very real dramatic issues like homophobia and misoginy should have consequences, I’ll say it again: if you publicly accuse me of being pro-rape because I like something made for a fiction couple I get to take you to court.

Also the bullshit of ‘oh my god those mean adult men in the cast are ganging up against a teenager’ said about adult men responding without sugarcoating (but also without insulting) to the hundreth ‘teenager’ who is insulting them, part of a group of people who insults them daily. Teenagers learn how to be adults also by learning consequences to their actions and that they don’t get to say everything they want the way they want, shouldn’t we reinforce this? Or should we let bullies free to online-harass adults every hour of every day? In the end Supergirl the cast by the end was so blatantly pissed to the point that some of them started snapping again, possibly because a guest star kickstarted it (sometimes you need one person to speak up and then others can), and those shippers didn’t get their ship to be made canon, thankfully, because it was way too unreal, but they still got treated better than they deserved. They learned that they can get something if they behave like that, and have the hope that doing worse will get them more.

And I honestly want to go back to writers and cast interacting less with us, to less twitter, less socials, because even if it sucks to lose that privilege it’s better than to let it become a tool in the hands of abusive people. If people can’t, as a group, learn how to use something responsibly, and the people giving it to them are not allowed to react properly, then that something has to be taken away from them. It’s ruining shows, literally, because usually these people have misread, willingly or by accident, everything from story to characters, and to cater to them means that whatever you were doing following your instincts and making a linear story will get messed up, the story will get out of track, the characters will be weird.

I just wish that the networks and all people involved realized just how very few these people are, how their behavior pushes away actual viewers, how it’s not necessarity to take it with a smile so they don’t lose money, and instead all agreed that there can be consequences to their actions. Fans make threats or claim that someone is -racist/homophobic/sexist/pro rape- without proof? they get sued for threats/diffamation. Fans gets graphic about their sex fantasies involving two coworkers? They get sued for sexual harassment. Fans bully? they get shut down. They are told the truth. I’d respect and watch a show more if that was an option.

#antisupercorp #antiswanqueen #ouat #supergirl #karamel #supergirl cast #ouat cast #antilena #antireginamills

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i-did · 3 years

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Do you have any thoughts on the way “fuck you Nora” impacts things like ships, in particular the recent sentiment that andreil is toxic and other fanon ships are objectively better and healthier that’s in pockets of the fandom. Like I’ve definitely seen it in the Kevin-centric niche the most but even outside of that there’s this belief that things like jerejean and renison would be very soft and healthy when there’s no proof of that. It’s almost like plausible deniability because (1/2)

andreil has canon strengths and flaws that are irrefutable, so when they ship things like Jerejean kevjean that don’t interact they feel a license to make it “better” because they know better than Nora if that makes sense. And Kandrew and kevineil are pitched as being healthier than andreil, among fans who say they wish the kandreil draft was canon where Nora has said multiple times, even when she talks about how fun they were to write that k/a were “obsessive” (2/2)

Yeah I definitely think “fuck you Nora” can play into it, sort of like how for a while most marriage or “I love you” HC posts started or ended with “fuck you Nora”.

I think andreil are such a unique relationship dynamic of two very “difficult and violent” people ending up together, so I understand why they also get called toxic and flawed a lot. Tbh I can’t really see Andrew or Neil with anyone else, I think they fit together well and what works and is healthy for them just won't work or be healthy for everyone else.

I also agree in the plausible deniability aspect, sometimes I think these fans take these characters and names and general situations, and make them into OC’s and/or props to fulfill troupes. The nature of fan creation is to play around with canon.

I personally don’t think the average college boy would be emotionally prepared or equipped enough to be a healthy pairing for a recently escaped lifelong human trafficking and cult survivor who just narrowly survived. And I don’t think Kevin who held power over Jean in the nest at number 2 instead of 3 as well as Riko’s partner, would be healthy either. Kevin himself talks about how it was different for him than for Jean, it was worse for Jean since he was a “lower rank.” I think the idea Kevjean is better than Kevin and Thea comes partially from the belief that gay=better in fandom, and the ‘pair the spare’ mentality.

I also personally think that both Kandrew and Daysten/Kevineil are not good fits either. I’ve talked about it before and explained why I think Kandrew is unhealthy and am not really interested in exploring it, but for Kevineil I personally think they… fight too much I guess. You get in arguments with your friends as well as partners, but the way they affect you and power works can be very different, and the type of arguments are also typically different. I think they're fine as friends, but I think they would need a lot more outside of canon growth and development to be a fit romantically. I don’t care what others want to ship or explore, I just personally don’t see much appeal with either dynamic.

I think people who say “this would be healthier” are usually imagining their ideas and HC’s and version of the character rather than the canon one, as well as just… their personal idea of what is “healthier” and what a good relationship “looks like”.

Also you briefly mention Renesion as being depicted/perceived as “softer and healthier” too. From what I see of Renesion its very… just kinda there. Usually there isn't a lot of development or they're just sort of in the background of another fic. The Renee and Allison in canon would not pair well together imo either, I also mention this somewhere in an earlier ask as well. I'm all for wlw pairs and ships, and I've read like a decently long Renesion fic my friend @wishbonetea wrote called “The Gracekeepers” where they do actually have chemistry, but are growing differently than they do in canon. In canon Renee is a “bad person trying very hard to be a good person.” she’s anti-negative talk and avoids speaking ill of others or expressing negative or harsh opinions. Allison has recently escaped a stuffy rich people environment where all their words are cloaked and all compliments are backhanded and no one really says what they’re thinking, Allison’s personal growth from this is to let it out and say what she really thinks, who give a fuck if they think she's rude or unladylike, it's her feelings. Also Renee’s past is often just depicted as this cool thing rather than something very truamatizing that she struggles with, makes it hard for her to genuinely connect with others and be her ‘real self’, and Allison's on-again off-again boyfriend just died, and she was there the night it happened. I haven't seen any fics actually explore these topics, just kinda ship them since “pair the spare.” (if any of you know any fics that address this or focus on it lmk)

I'm not going to hold their chemistry to a higher standard than mlm ships tho, I've seen people ship almost all the male characters together in the tags but obviously don’t do as much content for the women, which is a shame because some of the fox ladies have interesting potential chemistry. Dan and Renee have a very interesting dynamic in the EC and Nora herself said if she were to ship the fox ladies it would be Dan with Renee. I personally have high standards for ‘shipping’ I guess, sometimes I vaguely think “oh this could be interesting” but rarely do I actively explore it. I'm a pretty canon focused consumer, I never watched supernatural thinking ‘dustiel’ or even picked up on the queer-baiting until much later. I don't care about shipping the way most fans seem to. I like to imagine Andrew and Neil meeting in their late 60’s or so, or even not meeting the other and being single and having fulfilling lives that way too, which is not a common way to ‘show affection’ to characters.

I agree with you and think it comes down to plausible deniability and this urge to ‘defy Nora’–be all edgy to an author who stopped listening–as well as pair the spare and fandom culture of shipping at its core. Shipping is seen as a good/better treatment of the characters and “what they deserve” a lot.

#ask #fandom culture #mailob #damn its 4 am why did i answer this now #i have work tomorrow lmfao #i hope u see this anon

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neversatisfiedwithlife · 3 years

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That last anon is so wrong. I can barely find Klaine blogs that don’t have anti (insert mlm ship) or tbh an anti Brittana post every 5 minutes (exaggeration; more like once a day). They’re not loving their ships in peace, they’re talking about how great they think Klaine is while shitting on every other couple (canon or not)

Thank you for the message!💜💜🥰

Yes Klaine shippers are often ragging on Brittana, I don't think I've found a blog that is both friendly to Klaine and Brittana (I would like other anon to show me these mythical blogs that don't seem to exists)

My fellow Brittana shippers are very cordial and friendly towards Klaine, so maybe that's what they were getting confused about, perhaps. (Our brains can often get things twist turned)

Yes perfectly said; I often see Klaine shippers obsessing over how much better their ship is in comparison to others. Some of them simply cannot love their ship, they must make sure that they love their shop in comparison to another.

(This does not go for all Klaine shippers obviously, I just want to make the point clear. I am good friends with people who ship Klaine and are not toxic or hurtful/manipulative about it. There is nothing inherently wrong about shipping Klaine, ship who you want-thays my biggest point, it's just when it becomes more about tearing other people and their ships down when it isn't cool.)

-And if your only take is a ship isn't canon then why does it bother you so much? Like truly? Let people enjoy content as they wish. Enjoying non-canonical ships isn't hindering your canon ship at all.

Thank you anon for your input💜💜 I know im not alone in how I feel

#thank you😘😌👌👌#anon(affectionate)#🤭🤭#anti klaine stans really #anti klaine #anti blaine anderson

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megashadowdragon · 3 years

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its really annoying when there are ship wars between a same sex ship and straight ship for there will be people who ship the same sex ship who will claim the people who ship the straight ship over the same sex ship and respond to their claims of evidence by saying that is not romantic etc are homophobic which makes a joke of actual homophobia by reducing it to be about shipping and act like not shipping the same sex ship must be due to homophobia rather then there not being romantic buildup/ their liking the way the characters ( in the straight ship ) interact more etc ( not to mention screeching queerbaiting if their gay ship doesnt become canon even if they never baited you

to use examples from fandoms

not to mention how in alot of ships people find evidence where there is none they reach but with the same sex ships I have seen people claim that someone would see it if it was a het couple (a baseless claim to imply bias etc and homophobia rather then say something like you would see it if it was your ship)

or respond to someone who is anti their ship by going you are straight arent you as if there being lgbt people who are against the ship and favor the straight one over it like say makorra > korrasami or blacksun> bb

are all straight which is just not true and is a bad generalization the notion that if you are lgbt you will ship the same sex ship over the straight one is ridiculous.

also there are people who act like a same sex ship is above criticism like with korrasami ship where people criticized it saying it was forced had no buildup I have seen idiotic members of that shipping community claim homophobia or act like the only reason they shipp makorra over korrasami( felt it should be canon over korrasami) is that it was a het ship which is frankly insulting bs

I have seen some idiot go there are plenty of shows where het ships become canon ( if all you are concerned is about the genders involved which is the vibe that people who throw this argument give they have problems if something is badly written it should be criticized a ship being same sex doesnt make it exempt from critcism ) when the concern isnt that a same sex ship became canon over a het ship its in the writing how makorra had more development and that the same sex ship had no buildup etc good writing is more important then representation for a badly written ship wont leave a good taste in rewatching the series

these arguments could be turned around on them imagine if someone went oh so there werent any gay ships that become canon well there will always be another show

or claim you would ship their ship if one of the characters were gender swapped

imagine if some ship writers suddenly out of nowhere made a straight ship canon and throwing out the buildup for same sex ship that was built up since beginning it would be bad writing

if a ship was thrown in at the last minute and with no prior buildup people will criticize and comment on it especially if there was a ship that had actual buildup but they ignored it. people complaining about ships not becoming canon and criticizing the ship that became canon has even occurred when the two ships involved were both straight like kataang vs zutara or ichiruki vs ichihime. at some points the criticism it comes just to bad writing and not having the proper buildup and throwing away the ship that had buildup away (representation isnt a good enough argument as to why it was a good idea to make a ship canon the buildup with korrasami it feels like they made korrasami canon at the last minute just for the sake of having a same sex ship for they talked about worrying about not representing the lgbt community and admitted they only asked if they could do it at the last minute so it feels like a last minute type deal (korrasami ) at other points criticism just comes from the persons perspective on certain things done etc

the fact that there are alot of shows where a straight ship becomes canon and not the gay ship is irrelevant the genders involved are irrelevant its the writing and buildup of a ship that is important so going there arent that many shows wherea same sex ship becomes canon does nothing to change the bad writing

they should want good writing behind the ships and not just have someone force it in

“calling someone homophobic just because they don't like a ship is not only very presumptuous, but also entirely unfair“

it makes a joke of the term homophobia

and they have shown to use the smear homophobe for anyone who doesnt ship their ship even if they ship some other same sex ship.

and I am sick of people going lines you would ship it if it was a het ship or claiming that you would see it as evidence if it was a het ship which is baseless (and could be turned around on them

eight-of-pentacles . tumblr . com/post/633323632889905152/they-cant-use-too-many-straights-not-enough

as eight-of-pentacles said

“I’m also sick of the “too many straights not enough lgbt+” complaint, because it turns us into a quota to be met. Unless a show has “x” amount of lgbt+ pairings, its considered bad. It forces writers to put in lgbt+ rep, not because that’s where the story naturally progresses, but because anything less would be unacceptable to the audience. It turns us into a percentage, a statistic, rather than an important part of the narrative. And even then, even once the lgbt+ pairing(s) of choice has/have been added, they’re analyzed under a microscope. If even one thing is off with the presentation, it’s suddenly bad rep, the writers are blasted for not understanding lgbt+ issues, and shouldn’t have added it at all (Shiro/Adam in Voltron being a relatively recent example in mainstream fandom). Or, on the other side of the coin, actual bad rep is accepted and lauded because it meets a fandom’s astronomically low standards of simply seeing the characters get together on-screen. Thus continuing to perpetuate a system where mediocre (at best) lgbt+ content is held as the standard of quality. As you pointed out, it is insulting to lgbt+ content which has been well done, and been overlooked because of this trend.I haven’t even touched on the issue of “straight vs. lgbt+” yet, because there’s a whole separate issue to go along with this: the characters could very well be bi, and be in a m/f relationship. I’ve said this many times before: as a bi woman, I often get the distinct impression in fandom spaces that bisexuality (and bi women especially) are considered not as lgbt+ as others. We’re often talked about in a way that sounds like we are second-best. “At least make this character bi…” “I’ll accept this character being bi…” and so on. And even once that hurdle is jumped and a character is considered to be bi, their only acceptable pairings are mlm/wlw pairings. It’s transparent as hell, and it sends a message: bisexuality is only worth a damn in fandom when we can be used to make a character non-straight, and furthermore, when those characters are in non m/f pairings. I”

eight-of-pentacles . tumblr . com/post/627625447764656128/i-have-seen-people-respond-in-the-discourse

I have seen people respond in the discourse involving blacksun vs bb there are tons of het pairings why cant we have this one / there are tons of shows where a straight couple becomes canon go watch one of those

My feeling is that people hide behind that as an excuse to not provide valid evidence for their pairing. “Why can’t we have this one thing” has become an acceptable defense, one I disagree with for multiple reasons.

There is no point in whining about being deprived of a pairing in a show when, at this point in history, we are able to access more LGBT+ characters and plots than ever before. “Why can’t we have this one thing” is not a defense or a valid argument.

And most importantly, I find it fucking ridiculous that the main “criticism” of bs is that it’s heteronormative when one of the most popular headcanons in this fandom is that Blake (and sometimes Sun) is bi. It could not be more clear that there is an agenda at play; when people are so quick to claim one or both of them as non-straight to put them in a wlw or mlm (thus more acceptable) pairing, but will also immediately demonize bs for being m/f. There is an implicit statement there, regardless of if people realize it: bisexuality only matters when the person is in a non m/f relationship.

It’s disgusting. And because of that (and other reasons), I cannot take the “why can’t we have this one thing” complaint seriously. Not when anything that is given or shown will ever be good enough, unless people get their “one thing”. And it’s a poorly-veiled masquerade. Representation isn’t what matters, in that argument. Getting a canon pairing does.

eight-of-pentacles . tumblr . com/post/625068959339806720/ii-have-seen-bb-shippers-make-the-argument

In my opinion, it gets back to the argument that we often hear: “why can’t you let us have this one thing?”

Which is misleading. “This one thing” has become far more prevalent and accessable than ever before. And while I don’t want to claim I’m against non-straight pairings (obviously I’m not), it’s a lazy way for people to deflect criticism.

And if someone is basing the quality of the ship on the genders of the characters, that’s an incredibly shallow opinion.

a same sex ship should not be immune to criticism criticizing a same sex ship doesnt make you a homophobe.

its especially annoying when people try to go there are tons of shows where a straight pairing is canon go watch one of those as if the people who ship the straight ship only ship the ship because its a het ship which is insulting and dismissive and assumptive ( and implys they only ship the same sex ship because its same sex that they are the ones who are focused on the genders involved in the ship) ( not to mention assuming that all of the people who ship the het ship like wsay makorra or blacksun over korrasami and bb must be straight ignoring the lgbt members who ship thehet ship over the same sex ship being lgbt doesnt automatically mean you will ship the same sex ship just like being straight doesnt mean you will automatically ship the het ship

I remember someone going if you dont ship bb for example you are homophobic or claiming that if you say there was no buildup you are homophobic which makes a joke out of actual homophobia its just calling people homophobic over things which arent that word criticizing bbb and saying tht there is no buildup or responding to people who are trying to claim something is evidence for bb ship like the v3 finale and saying its not isnt homophobia

its just disagreement

to be frank as I said before ( I am not going to hide my position on things bb shippers wearing shipping goggles to find evidence or buildup where there is none and claiming homophobia if someone says its not can get

not to mention there is people who try to pull the you would see it if yang was a man (or you would ship it if yang was male ) ( and this person previously used the representation argument for why bb should become canon or implications that the genders involved is why that person ships bb over blacksun I could easily turn it around on them and say if yang was male you wouldnt have shipped bb in fact if sun was a woman you would ship it

@lewdnepvasilias666

#shipping nonsense #ship wars

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maxbernini · 3 years

Note

Hi! Did you get my ask about teenage sex scenes in media? Just checking 😅

hi!!! i did, but i started summer school this week so i’ve had zero energy sorry. i’ll answer what you addressed here. putting it under a read more; warning for discussions of sex + sexualization of teens and underage actors + fetishization of mlm. also it’s long but it’s the last time i wanna talk about this topic publicly bc i don’t like it & it usually derails into discourse :))

the thing about sex scenes for me is that it’s like, what’s the point? what do they represent? usually it’s to show a change in relationship, or for characterization purposes (e.g.: someone using sex as a coping method) and that’s all peachy, because i’m not anti-sex scenes in media!! i love all the ways sex is used in sebastián lelio’s film disobedience for example. but that involves adults. when a sex scene involves teenagers, it’s usually because it’s on a show about and for teenagers as well, so the paradigms automatically shift too. it can still be about showing a change in relationship, but, as with most things on teen shows, it’s also a chance to educate an impressionable audience, whereas a sex scene on a show like the americans or killing eve or whatever isn’t typically used as a medium to discuss consent, you know? and regardless of how dark and edgy some remakes can be, the entire point of skam as a show has always been to educate and entertain. obviously it fails in that regard when it comes to things like noorhelm, but julie andem very clearly interviewed norwegian teens for a reason. and i think once you view teen shows through that educate-entertain lens, a lot of things fall apart.

for example: cheryl and toni’s sex scene in riverdale. the actresses are both adults who look like adults so it’s easy to forget that the characters aren’t. if the characters were adults, i'd think it was a fun example of two women exploring their sex lives. but they're not, and it's also not a scene about consent, boundaries, trust. it's pretty much like every other riverdale sex scene, which is to say: it's titillating and fan servicey and very much supposed to be sexy rather than realistic. and again, because the actresses don't look like actual teens (whereas 90% of the skam casts do, because they are), you forget what it is you're watching. but when you do interrogate it, it's like...why is this happening? why are we watching two teen girls act out a bdsm fantasy in a club basement? (and when shows like euphoria have to cast adults to play teens because of the amount of nudity, then what does that say about how we approach teenage sexualization?)

so, re: sex scenes in skam. i think david and matteo's is a good example of one. what's the point of it? well, their relationship develops further, and you see a cis gay man and a trans man navigate sex for the first time. it's not gratuitous, it’s intimate and loving without being voyeuristic and overly sexualizing. and i think it's important for teens - especially gay and trans teens - to see that!! to normalize their desires + relationships, and show what healthy, consensual sex looks like. on the flip side, you have the mayla sex scene and the sobbe cyber sex scene, which attracted a lot more discourse than davenzi's. most of that has to do with the cast's ages, but tbh you have to be blind not to see a difference in the latter two vs druck’s. read this post + my tags + the convo with a friend in the notes for how i specifically feel about the mayla sex scene and why i'd happily fight david hourregue if i saw him in the street.

did misogyny and lesbophobia play a part in the different reactions to the mayla sex scene and the sobbe ones? yeah. obviously we view men and women’s bodies differently (e.g.: cis men can be topless and nobody bats an eye, but cis/trans women obviously cannot do the same), and fandoms generally view wlw and mlm differently too: mlm ships are always more popular, not always for good reasons - which sex scene resulted in adult women creating moaning compilations? - but they also don't attract conversations about the male gaze, which only applies to women, especially women in wlw relationships. there was always going to be more discourse about the mayla one even if flavie hadn't been 17 (and for what it's worth, if the mayla sex scene had been adult women playing adult characters, i wouldn't have found it to be male gazey or unrealistic or bad.)

yet i don’t think people being less discourse-y about the sobbe one makes the mayla one automatically okay in response. both scenes featured a minor (!!). neither needed to be that graphic; you can argue that the sobbe cyber sex scene doesn't need to exist at all lmao. i actually think it was important for lola's arc to show her finally engaging in happy, healthy, consensual sex, but the morning scene accomplishes that. i wish it was something like crisana's (which is mostly implied because of spain's laws), or like, a pre-sex conversation where they discuss it, and then it cuts to black / the morning scene.

tl;dr: normalizing healthy, consensual sex between teens is good. hyper-sexualizing them is bad. adults in fandoms should stop crossing lines. david hourregue and the wtfock team should choke.

#long post #ask #anon

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incarnateirony · 6 years

Text

Tell me again anti arguments aren’t seated in deeply entrenched homophobia.

So I just found a post.

Like the flaming type of douchebag it takes to make this kind of post, not only do they make it in a critical tag that will turn it up -- without a protective cut or warning -- in a main tag but they explicitly choose to stir the shit by planting it in the main ship tag.

But wait, there’s more!

This person is legitimately out here spontaneously arguing with canon about it because, oh no, Claire might be gay. But how could she possibly be gay? In her few adult episodes she didn’t spontaneously start humping girls. We like, saw her fighting stuff. Obviously that means she must be straight. Why would she happen to get a crush on THIS girl? It makes no sense!! Don’t lesbians have to like, want to scissor any woman that crosses their path? The math doesn’t add up, Carl!

But it gets better. They’ve been compulsively reblogging DreamHunter posts to shit in them, but have some key highlights on their logic.

Check out the anti arguments here.

DreamHunter can’t possibly be canon because if DreamHunter is canon that would make Destiel canon and we just can’t stand for that!!

Ironically they have a “Destiel” tag in their bio but the funniest shit is this leading in with, you know, cramming LGBT down people’s throats, with a whole three boldly confirmed characters in the show. Or, perhaps, either 1 (Charlie) or 5 (+Cas and Dean) by their polar logic.

Funny how that works.

*looks back to Bobo’s book review circa 2003*

“But it never occurs to Goldstein that there is a deeper social problem at work if heterosexual liberals are craving outlets for sublimated homophobia …”

“Again, we have a righteous injunction to all heterosexuals to ’fess up to their homophobia and to get to work and fix it, divorced from any realistic awareness of how much time heterosexuals will ever be willing to devote to such a project;” -- Bobo Berens, Dissent Magazine, 2003.

Given, of course, Bobo modernly clarified that he by no means was intending to give a pass for that sort of behavior or narrative when he wrote it -- simply the awareness that there are those people, so immersed in it, that they are unable to be aware of much less atone for their bitterly phobic narratives.

As above.

So yeah, folks. I echo back to my The Problem With Dreamhunter post, but ironically, find that we did, finally, find one oddball out that’s explicitly arguing with Jody’s First Love comment. They were just great gal pals, guys. No big. Don’t shove the gay down everyone’s throats, duh!

Above receipts minded, it’s totally unsurprising that, with my linked post considered and pointing out the authorial parallels of one ship to the other, that they decided to throw Destiel under the bus to argue too, while unwittingly elevating it.

Huh.

Yeah, fam. Those stupid gay authors in the writing room gaying up our show and shoving it down everybody’s throats but it’s not canon cuz I said so. But I’m not a homophobe! I have a gay friend. I call him Sparkles.

Fucking gag me with a spoon.

Do you guys see the true issue here yet?

These people don’t even see how they’re being problematic.

Let’s argue devil’s advocate. “If DreamHunter is canon so is Destiel,” okay, that’s 5 main-ish queer characters. Will they accept Crowley as canon queer or is that “not canon” to them either? 6? (reaches, wiggles fingertips out of reach) NYYEEHHH! So... close!

How many recognizeable (not one-off, side screen, lol oh look a bartender roles) have existed in this show? 50? You know, counting recurrings like Benny and Bela and whoever. (If we stretch it to include things like “Vince’s Band Mates” which is technically recurring, there’s about 176.) (this smaller, less updated wiki misses some early characters beyond Amara, doesn’t even have the S11-14 characters, and still says 91, but also doesn’t flood out like “Bart’s Assistant”)

Do people realize that the modern CW target demo of 18-34 varies from lower end identifying 52% queer and older end identifying 34% queer?

That means one in every 2 or 3 people in the target, modern, not primeval generation ping somewhere on the Kinsey scale. Having 1-in-15 (and that’s being generous -- do we get to include Crowley?) isn’t exactly shoving anything down anybody’s throats. It’s admitting we exist a little bit.

And again, spare me like “But there were those gay bartenders cupid shot” or “there was the hunter husband episode” that never got touched on again. Again, one off characters and/or the equivalent of greyface NPCs - if we have thousands of those, if you’re pulling on maybe like, 10, you should already realize you’re spraining something from the reach.

Chill. Nobody’s shoving anything down your throat. Queer people do exist. We exist a lot more than Straighties want to believe. But your heterosexuality isn’t being attacked just because maybe 1-in-15ish people might ping queer as actual faces on a show.

(*1-in-15ish comes from the 91 number. It becomes 1-in-23ish if we use the 176)

In other news, this is a clearly straight-identifying person (they pulled “I have gay friends” and not “But I’m gay too”), but let us never forget the above cited quotes from Berens are discussing what Goldstien politically addressed as “the attack queers,” a conservative-leaning demographic often coded to internally phobic narratives which -- while allowing them greater ability to communicate to the phobic edge of the straight audience and open that venue -- he realized he almost sounded like he was defending.

He is aware, for example, of how to deal with this conservative audience, and how to use their method to gain “disproportionate presence in the media” above more liberal methods he personally agrees with the narrative of but to the resistant audience comes across as a “litany of scolding and sermonizing,” but at the same time doesn’t condone the actual narratives --

In fact the very ability to be aware of this lets us know that Berens, above many others, is wholly aware of internalized homophobia on top of politically sublimated homophobia from the hetero community and what measures make progress for them to “accept” things gradually, even if they’re not at all concessions we want to make, which he addressed as a “valuable service,” even if, again, he by no means agrees with the actual crude bullshit that comes out of their mouth.

Both things can be true. People who think they’re being supportive can actually be problematic, but severely problematic people may actually be able to reached by middle ground problematic people in a gradually diminishing scale of problematic, rather than feeling preached at.

And then there’s those, like our OP, who even if they get the gentlest, most easily accepted (WLW is more culturally saturated than MLM and thus welcome [we can breakout-discuss fetishization vs representation another time]), most “inoffensive” to the delicate (because if they HAD kissed, they’d be yelling that the gays were ruining things again by kissing [and of course, without the fetishization, however will the people who want to whap to it feel it was complete?]), simply have no intention of releasing their homophobia, falling back to his quote.

What we have is, beyond the reach of even attempted moderate media initiation via Sullivan and Paglia standard, the OP these screenshots are from, representing this quote. Right here.

Also: We can’t even remotely pretend like it’s just the oppressive straighties. You, me, all of us -- Berens included -- know sometimes this even spawns from within the LGBT community -- such as addressed by Goldstein involving Paglia and Sullivan.

Same shit different verse every time, though.

And

But hey, OP? If you ever read this, (and I definitely left you chance to with my reblog of one of your posts with a link to this) which I kind of doubt you’ll ever get this far even if you find it -- because somewhere between being called out on your blatant phobia and me putting my gay all over your feed --

Before you ever try to tell anyone what is or isn’t canon, most explicitly an author that already told us before the fated line that it’s what he wanted us to see (ironically by using his and Dabb as his co author’s previously penned moments for the other LGBT ship you tried to throw under the bus as direct mirrors), you might want to do a quick tap in and make sure that author didn’t psychically write an article 15 years prior pointing out how your opinion makes you a raging douchebag that has proven to be intentionally non negotiable.

Ja?

Ja.

Because you don’t realize it but you guys are literally all the same from literally something being diagnosed as problematic no matter how people try to reach out to you fifteen years ago. And that guy is in our author room. Penning both the Destiel elements you tried to bus, DreamHunter, and confirming his intentions.

#supernatural #destiel #dreamhunter #anti antis #lgbt #coded phobia

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selkie-assist · 5 years

Note

Do you think you could make your links available on mobile somehow? I don't have access to a computer to view them:(

BLACKLIST -+- REQUEST INFO

My blacklist is not negotiable! If you don’t like it find another kin blog!

I won’t do anything with incest ships. This includes Corrin x Nohrian/Hoshidan siblings or Corrin x Azura/Shigure.

I won’t do anything with pedophilic ships either. This includes Corrin x Second Gen Units and Robin x Second Gen Units.

Other than that, I’m pretty comfy with basically every fire emblem ship, including crossovers!

I won't do anything with Soleil orientation discourse. My only opinion on this discourse is just that she’s wlw.

I will do requests regardless of the character’s canon gender. What I mean by this is if a trans girl kins Leo but was a trans girl in her canon, I’ll do something for trans girl Leo if it’s requested. I’ll do the same for trans boys and nonbinary folk! This includes if you weren’t kin with that character yourself, but they were still that gender. (For example, in my Soliel kin, Shigure is nonbinary and I often refer to them with they/them because of it!) How ever I won't do anything with genderbends.

Requests asking for cishet stuff will just be deleted! I can and will turn all your faves gay and trans. ;)

Anyways~ Onto info!!

For icons!!! I can do pride icons! They can be aes flags too, but pls know that if I go against the op’s dni (I am pro-mogai, anti-truscum, ace and aro inclusionist, and an anti for some quick reference) I won’t use it. for the lesbian flag i just go with the orange to pink one instead of the only pink one, know that it’s because the creator of the pink one is really icky if you’re unaware of that. And since I did say I’m pro-mogai, I don’t mind doing mogai identities as long as it’s not harmful.~

If you’re sending in a canon call don’t be afraid to send in multiple asks, I’ll post them all together. Please be as specific or vague as you want! Be clear if you want to meet specific character, avoid specific characters, want people only from your canon, and the age range. While the age range isn’t necessary, PLEASE state if you are a minor or over 18. If you’re 18+, minors may not want to interact and vice versa, so even if you’re comfy with anyone, know that they might not be comfy back. And if someone does have an age range (ect. “I’m 18+ and only want to talk to other 18+ folk”) RESPECT THAT. As a final point, if you’re 18+ and only want minors to interact, you will be blocked. If you’re a minor and only want people 18+ to interact, it’ll just be deleted.

Portrait edits are currently only available for characters in heroes! Please be more specific on things colourwise- for example don’t say “darker skin” because that is far from specific and can be from a light brown to a very dark brown. I can give characters hair dye streaks, freckles, face stickers, pride buttons, and minor edits in general along side full colour edits. I can also give characters objects from other characters, but note that the art styles may not mesh the best with all non-colour based edits. I will not lighten skin tones.

Aesthetics!! Please include colours unless it’s a pride aesthetic, since it’ll just be the flag colours. A THEME IS MANDATORY IF THE CHARACTER IS NOT FROM AWAKENING OR FATES. I’m mostly familiar with those two games so I can do an aesthetic for them based on how they are in canon, but that’s a lot harder for other characters and I will just delete it.

And about stimboards, PLEASE DO NOT REQUEST THIS IF YOU DON’T STIM. I don’t mind neurotypicals requesting, since they can stim, it’s just not as common as in ND folk. It’s not for aesthetics, even if I try my best to make them look appealing. You can rb them if you don’t stim, I don’t care, just don’t request them. When you are requesting, please try to be as specific as you can! Say what stims you don’t want included, if you have trypo, if you don’t want hands, can’t stand blades, are uncomfy with furry paws, don’t want animals, no fast-paced gifs, ect ect. Even if you’re worried about it sounding weird tell me, I won’t judge you.

You can check my “#?Selkies Samples” tag for examples of my stuff!

As a final note, you can request as much as you want when requests are open but send them in different messages. Adding more than one request into one message stresses me out immensely and I will not be able to do it.

HOLD UP!

Before you follow, know my stances on some stuff that’s important to me!

I’m anti-truscum and pro-mogai/imoga. Call me a tucute if you want, idc.

I’m an ace and aro inclusonist! Exclusionists are aphobes and never cared about “keeping ‘cishets’ out” they only want to hurt ace and aros.

I’m pro self-dx. As long as you put tons of research into the subject and talk with those who know for sure they have it + are open about it being self-dx, it isn’t harmful. It can be impossible to get diagnoses’ for things, especially if you have ablest parents, are afab, and/or don’t have the money.

I’m pro-otherkin! I’m other kin myself.

I’m an ‘anti’. What that means is I’m against shipping pedophilia, incest, and abuse even in fiction, and am aware that fiction effects reality. 'Anti-anti’ is a dumb label that’s clearly dancing around saying that they’re a pedophilia/incest/abuse supporter and apologist.

I’m obviously anti-pedophilie (map/nomap/nop/what ever term they’re using to seem less threatening) if that wasn’t clear by now.

So, I’d prefer if you don’t follow me if you are:

Truscum. I’ll likely block you if you even interact with me.

Anti-mogai. Neutrals are fine tho.

Ace/Aro exclusionist or neutral. It stopped being about gatekeeping a long time ago, you can’t be neutral on this when it’s constantly exclusionists telling aces and aros that they aren’t real, that they aren’t hurt for their orientation, and always having their communities invaded and ripped down even after exlusionists said that all they wanted was for us to make our own community. We did that. They tore it down and continued to mock us and yell at us all while getting our identity wrong, describing it incorrectly, and refusing to listen to our voices. It isn’t about if we’re lgbt or not anymore. It never was.

Pro-shipper ('anti-anti’)

Pro-pedophile

True crime community (I mean the sexual and romanticizing stuff!! I’m super into true crime myself so don’t worry about this if you’re just interested in crimes and mystery.)

BIO TIME!

Okay! I’m Selkie! I’m a trans man and I only use he/him. (I’ve considered using neopronouns but haven’t found any that were right. I might try some out on this blog in the future though.) I’m mentally ill and nd. While I am currently a minor, I’m fine with people of all ages interacting and talking to me.

I’m asexual fictosexual/romantic, and (gray)aromantic mlm.

Anyways!!! Onto my kins! I mentioned otherkin, so I’ll quickly say that I’m vampire, fox, and werewolf kin. And while I’m not sure if they count as other kin at all, I’m a Kitsune (the Fates/IF kind specifically, not the Japanese folklore kind, and this is because I kin Selkie), as well as an Absol, Vulpix, Sylveon,and Umbreon from pokemon!

For fire emblem kins specifically, I am Selkie (Hence the theme! also, trans man), Veronica (trans man), Soleil (trans man??), and Henry (trans man)!

I’m 100% okay with all doubles~ While my mod name is Selkie I’m also fine with being called Soleil or Henry! Call me Veronica though and perish by my claws.

--------------------------------------------------

there you go, nonny!

#mobile links #?ask box #?selkie txt #long post #anon

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glossolali · 6 years

Text

ok here's the tea about shiro and his story arc

What I hate about the 'Shiro should've been the Black Paladin again' and the 'Keith saving Shiro takes away from his storyline' rhetoric is that people think he should've come back and been restored to his ‘former glory’ or whatever but the truth is.. Shiro was irrevocably changed by everything that happened to him, and not just in appearance obviously but in experience too. He's not the same person anymore. Becoming the Black Paladin again wouldn't have made sense for him in terms of his character development, nor would shuffling everyone back around and removing Allura from the team make sense for the rest of Team Voltron either.

Knowing what I know now from the flashbacks about the fact that he's a MLM and had a debilitating and potentially terminal illness, it makes sense that his position in the team is different now. Seeing the flashbacks and knowing what he faced and his motivations and the kind of strength and resilience it takes to be him and to keep going, it makes absolute sense to have the Garrison (and the whole world frankly) that once rejected him for being him, finally recognize him as a leader and as the Commander of the Atlas. The Atlas is Earth's last hope, and being trusted enough to be given the huge responsibility of commanding the Atlas and saving the world makes so much sense for his story arc and ties up all the loose ends he left behind on Earth.

Another thing is, the whole concept of 'last hope' rings so true with Shiro, who has persevered through so much on hope and willpower alone. And don't even get me started on the symbolism of being the captain of a ship called 'Atlas'. Shouldering the entire world's burdens as well as his own and still coming out on top and saving the day and being a hero? Transforming something that is broken and malfunctioning into something more powerful and effective??? With his MIND? With the strength of his soul alone? The parallels.... I can’t. It's the perfect storyline for him in my opinion.

And about Keith saving him? It's like Lia @otasucc says in this post and its replies but: It shows that you can be a strong hero that still needs help from your friends sometimes. It's humanizing and it makes him more relatable. He's not a superhero, he's just a regular person who’s had some strange and incredible and sometimes horrible things happen to him, and his story shows us that anyone can be the champion of their own story, with a little help from their friends. And that's what Voltron is all about after all, ordinary people who become extraordinary with the help of their friends.

I don't know about you or your life but I'm also a strong person who has been and is going through some bullshit, and if it weren't for my friends support I wouldn't be where I am today. I don't look at my friends and say: "Oh, they saved my ass but they're stopping me from being the hero of my own story", I look at my friends and say, "I'm so lucky to have them and I’m so glad they were there for me."

Another thing is, this isn't just Shiro's story. Yes, he's a main character but no he isn't the main character. No one is, not even Keith. That’s the point. Voltron is a story about friendship and teamwork, it’s not some classic tale of the chosen one who saves everything.

And from Keith's story's POV, him saving Shiro over and over isn't about him being the ultimate hero, a hero better than Shiro, it's about him making the choice to build strong relationships between him and his loved ones, which for someone who was initially anti-social and closed off and untrusting is such huge progress for him as well.

Anyway, my point is this: Shiro never stopped being a hero. Just because his title changed or someone saved him doesn't mean he's weak or that he's regressed or become less integral to the story. It's just character development.

#sheith #shiro #voltron #vld #vld s7 #glossopost #long post #salt adjacent #vld meta

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pan-xichen · 6 years

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With season seven right around the corner I have some simple, reasonable requests for this fandom:

Please don't try and lynch new fans into your "side" (this goes for everyone; antis, klancers, shaladins, literally everyone please don't do this). After Shiro being confirmed as an LGBT+ character and an incredible one at that there will definitely be new people interested in the show, and that's just one reason for people to start watching. I watched AC Odyssey blow up because the game allows you to be LGBT+ as someone already in the Assassin's Creed fandom and I know it'll happen with Shiro if it isn't already and that's great!! but also please let these new fans figure out what they like and don't like by themselves and don't try to force them into having the same opinion as you. If it's a friend of yours obviously they'll know your bias and that's okay, but don't go up to new fans you don't know and do this to them.

If we don't get canon sheith please don't be nasty to the cast/crew (you are however allowed to feel disappointed and that's completely valid! just don't go after anyone for it). I know this side of the fandom is better than that. Show positivity to them no matter what. They've already delivered us gay Shiro and that in itself is incredible. Show them that representation matters to us; reception of Shiro being gay is already negative from parents and older fans who aren't in the fandom and the season isn't even out yet. Flood the positivity so dreamworks and other big companies know how important good rep is to us, and so the people who brought us this wonderful show know they've done a good job with Shiro.

I hope I don't have to say this; if we do get canon sheith I know we will all feel that sweet, sweet VINDICATIOOOOON, but please don't actively go to people who have different ships and rub it in their faces. Be respectful of others; if a different ship than sheith became canon you wouldn't want those shippers rubbing it in your face. Celebrate, for sure, but leave other shippers who may be disappointed alone. I know we're better than that.

If sheith isn't canon and you don't like it, leave shippers alone. The same thing as the previous request; you wouldn't want it done to you so don't do it to others. It's simple.

If sheith is canon and you don't like it, for the love of all that is good and holy don't go after the cast and crew. Don't write angry letters to dreamworks and studio mir. If you throw a temper tantrum about canon sheith, dreamworks and other big producers will look at it and interpret it as "people don't like mlm representation", not "people don't like this specific ship". Despite society changing homophobia is still rampant especially in the US where dreamworks is based. If you lash out because of canon sheith they may not take the risk of having LGBT+ relationship rep with a different show. Just... don't ruin it. Look at the bigger picture.

Basically just be respectful to each other, the cast/crew, and enjoy what we're being given as a really great show. There might be other stuff I could've added but yeah the bottom line is "don't be a dick in any circumstance", essentially.

#mullet speaks #voltron #vld season 7 #sheith #shaladin #im not tagging antis lmao #takashi shirogane #(because this mentions him)#discourse ish

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discoursecatharsis · 6 years

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fuck i'm mad now i'm so sorry you're going to have to read this, but i have to say smth abt this. i found this tweet and it said that bc cishet girls ship m/m ships but not w/w ones bc they can't relate, they... hate wlw? it.... it doesn't make sense tbh. feells like gatekeeping/slight anti behavior bc they pulled 'you're not a gay man either' so it's rly :/

I know exactly what tweet you’re talking about, I’ve seen it on my timeline at least 2 or 3 times already. OP said “I’m a mlm and I enjoy wlw ships and read wlw fics so being unable to relate isn’t an excuse” or something like that. I bet half the people in agreement with op don’t care for m/f ships and find them boring and “can’t relate,” yet when someone doesn’t read same-gender ships, they obviously hate all gay people or some nonsense. It’s all so dumb, I swear some people just make up crap to get angry at people for. You can’t tell if someone hates a whole group of people strictly/solely on the kind of fandom/fiction they indulge in in their spare time.

#ask #Anonymous

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anti-anti-culture · 7 years

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Specific VA Treatment

I already made a general post about attacking VAs and Creators but this one is going to be Voltron VA specific. Bex will be first since you all seem to have it out for this precious human the most.

Bex -

- SHE IS ALLOWED TO POST WHATEVER SHE FEELS LIKE, she is a human being like all of us, just because she’s a celebrity does not mean she can’t use tumblr/social media like the normal human she is.

- Stop sending her death threats for the love of god. She is a person. She has feelings like you and I. Why would anyone ever want to send a person death threats unless they were stupid or had a screw loose? (by stupid I mean you can get in trouble with the law for sending death threats you ignoramuses)

- Stop sending her threats in general. Literally wtf. She is, once again, a person. Would you randomly walk up to someone and threaten them? No probably not. Don’t do it over the internet either. Also saying you are a minor/mlm/wlw/any other minority doesn’t get you off scott free. A threat is still a threat no matter who from. Even if its a “joke” its still a threat.

- She is also allowed to ship whatever the fuck she wants. She knows more about the show than you do so i think she has a right to do whatever she choses with regards to the show. Let her ship Plance if she wants dammit.

- Stop calling her a homophobe. You are all dumb. She is the furthest thing from a homophobe. “She’s a lesbian, Harold”.

- idk why you all call her a pedophile. You call Sheith shippers pedophiles (which is inaccurate btw). She doesn’t ship sheith. She support people who do but she doesn’t personally ship it u dunderhead.

- Boobs aren’t sexual objects. She doesn’t see them as sexual objects. Stop turning them into sexual objects just so you can use it as an argument against her.

Josh -

- For the love of all things holy stop calling him a pedophile. So what if he likes an imaginary ship or not? 1) it’s not pedophilia, 2) it’s not real anyways, 3) you are making yourself look stupider by the minute by calling someone something they aren’t.

- Stop sending death threats. I’m going to have to reiterate this in every section it seems like. None of you obviously have morals if you think sending death threats are alright.

- STOP SENDING THREATS. Again another thing it seems like I will have to keep reiterating. Threatening people isn’t okay. It’s just not. You are taught this as a kid, or at least I THOUGHT everyone was taught this growing up.

- Never involve a persons children in a situation they aren’t apart of. You are literally the scum of the Earth if you talk ill about someones child or bring them into a situation they should not be in. If someone had done that to my kid they wouldn’t want to be anywhere near me i’ll tell you that right now. A threat against a child is a threat against their parents as well. If you threaten a child you have to deal with the consequence of having a pissed off parent as well. Plus a parent has every right to come at you once you threaten their children.

- He’s also allowed to post anything he wants. He’s a person, he can make jokes, he can have fun on social media. Stop being a party pooper.

- He is also not a homophobe. So don’t call him that.

Neil -

- He is also not a homophobe so just stop.

- don’t threaten or antagonize him. Once again not something you should do.

- Don’t send death threats! once again a bad thing to do and against the law.

- just stop being a dick in general to him? He’s a nice man let him live.

AJ -

- He is precious. Stop waiting to pounce on him for anything he says you vultures (I shouldn’t say that its an insult to the vultures)

Tyler -

- let this man ship Punk (hunk and pidge) in peace

- i don’t think anti’s have attacked him for anything else???

ALL THE VAs IN GENERAL -

- Stop threatening them.

- Stop sending death threats.

- Stop policing their social media.

- Stop saying they can’t support ships just because you don’t like them.

- Stop saying they can’t ship what they like just because you don’t like it.

- Stop being dicks to them in general.

- Stop trying to weed out info about the show from them, they have a contract, they can’t talk to you about future stuff in the show get that thru your head.

- Just stop calling people pedo’s. Dreamworks would not hire pedophiles you idiots. plus YOU SHOULDN’T EVEN THROW AROUND A SERIOUS WORD LIKE THAT WILLY-NILLY.

- Let’s all be decent human beings alright? alright.

#voltron #vld #antis #bex taylor klaus #neil kaplan #Josh Keaton #aj locascio #kimberly brooks #jeremy shada #steven yeun #tyler labine #rhys darby #VAs #discourse #my posts

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triciaonlinebusiness · 4 years

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