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thinkingisadangerouspastime · 3 years

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Hi, first off I ship Zutara and I come in peace. I was pointed your way by a friend when I asked for people who ship kataang who are nevertheless willing to hear different views. I have lurked on blog a week and finally got up my nerve to ask how you or any other Kataang can deny that the last part of book 3 was completely Zutara but then stopped abruptly with no buildup? You can finesse tone on text so I'm not being sarcastic or bitchy, it is a serious question (1/5)

In The Southern Raiders, Katara realizes she has been wrong about Zuko. In Ember Island Players, she realizes Aang is not as mature as she thought he was, and in the finale, Katara does not care a whit that Aang is gone. I am serious and as someone who is no Aang stan but likes him, I’m actually annoyed by how little anyone cared about his disappearance. It went from “Aang’s gone!” to “Okay whatever, let’s find Iroh so he can kill Ozai.” (2/5)

Katara was all over Zuko (honestly, again not being a jerk) in the finale until for whatever reason, she wasn’t. She was giving him a pep talk about Iroh, she was going with him to Azula, she was healing him and saying he saved her not the other way around. I genuinely don’t get why this isn’t seen as romantic. I will grant you that Zuko would not have allowed Azula to kill anyone but I feel the point here was Zuko realizing his life was pointless if Katara was killed. (4/5)

And then literally at the end, Mai shows up after Zuko not talking about her at all for six episodes and declares herself Zuko’s girlfriend. And Katara kisses Aang after being annoyed with and by him arguably since The Southern Raiders. I get that Kataang “won” and I’ve made peace with that, but ... I can’t understand why Kataang shippers are okay with such a crap story. I swear on my gmom [sic] if they’d done this for [Zvtara], I’d be mad as hell. So I don’t understand, I really don’t. (5/5)

As always, I shall begin with a disclaimer: anon, you do not have to agree with this post. No one has to agree with this post, as it is strictly my own thoughts on the subject matter raised here! As per usual, I will not be putting this in the main tags - much less the Zvtara tag! - because I have basic fandom decency, lmao. If you (the general you, not anon specifically) do disagree with this post, that is totally fine, I simply ask that you are polite in expressing your disagreement (if you choose to do so at all! no one is expected to, lmao. i promise).

Alright. Formalities are out of the way!

I’ll admit I giggled a little bit when you say you lurked on my blog for a week, because I’ve actually talked about this subject numerous times in the past! I just found it funny you hadn’t stumbled across any posts about it yet, lol. So, as a heads up, know that I will be providing several links in this post since - again - this subject and related subjects have been analyzed a multitude of times before. I highly recommend reading them all! Mostly because I don’t intend to spend forever restating what’s been said over and over and over lmaooo. I will provide the resources, but it is up to each individual to take advantage of them.

To begin: your ask actually contains a few logical fallacies, anon! I do not mean this as shade or to belittle you - I fall victim to this issue all the time myself. Anyone who writes analyses or participates in debates does! Humans are imperfect and often like to cut corners to reach a conclusion. It is nothing to be embarrassed or ashamed about because - as the existence of your ask in inbox indicates - you are willing to learn more. So kudos to you, my friend!

Alright. So what logical fallacies am I talking about here? (For the record: specific definitions of logical fallacies were taken from here.)

1. Hasty Generalization.

“A hasty generalization is a general statement without sufficient evidence to support it.” Numerous claims are made in this ask that I have absolutely no doubt you believe to be true, anon, but there really isn’t any concrete evidence to support it! I will go into more detail later, of course, but let’s quickly look at one example:

“In Ember Island Players, [Katara] realizes Aang is not as mature as she thought he was…”

For the time being, I will ask but one question: from the show itself, not fanon, how do you know this?

2. Causal Fallacy

Ah, this guy. My own worst enemy, tbh! “A causal fallacy is any logical breakdown when identifying a cause,” of which there are several types. “One causal fallacy is the false cause or non causa pro causa (‘not the-cause for a cause’) fallacy, which is when you conclude about a cause without enough evidence to do so.” In your ask, you claim:

“I will grant you that Zuko would not have allowed Azula to kill anyone but I feel the point here was Zuko realizing his life was pointless if Katara was killed.”

Again, for the time being, I will ask only one question: from the show itself, not fanon, what led you to believe this statement?

“Another kind of causal fallacy is the correlational fallacy also known as cum hoc ergo propter hoc (Lat., ‘with this therefore because of this’). This fallacy happens when you mistakenly interpret two things found together as being causally related.” In your ask, you claim:

“Katara was all over Zuko (honestly, again not being a jerk) in the finale until for whatever reason, she wasn’t. She was giving him a pep talk about Iroh, she was going with him to Azula, she was healing him and saying he saved her not the other way around. I genuinely don’t get why this isn’t seen as romantic.”

I will ask one question: from the show itself, not fanon, why would you believe these are indicative of romance? (Consider the context the show is situated in, too - e.g. the war, Katara being Azula’s only available match in skill, etc.)

The reason I bring up the issue of logical fallacies is again not at all to make you feel bad, anon!! You were simply trying to express your point to me and I greatly appreciate you taking the time to do so. See, your ask actually presents a larger fandom trend:

Misconstruing fanon as canon.

What you have offered to me, anon, are fanon conclusions. To clarify: there is absolutely nothing wrong with fanon. I adore fanon interpretations (an example I have used in the past is Kuzaang - like, I don’t care that there’s no canon basis! I do what I want lmao!), but a line has to be drawn between exploring fanon interpretations and expecting everyone to take that fanon as canon. Again, anon, this is not your fault! It is not any one person’s fault, lmao. It is an issue of fandom as a whole, and all of us fall victim to it.

With that in mind, I will break down the different components of your ask. I will also do my best to be brief - as aforementioned, I and others have analyzed this issue numerous times before, lmao. To avoid confusion, it would be best to read through each or at least most links as they are provided!

Firstly, there are two posts I have made in the past that almost directly answer your overarching question here in this ask. Please read them prior to continuing, as I will occasionally reference them:

This post explains how Zvtara was not built up from TSR/EIP-onwards, and how their supposed “canon enemies to lovers arc” is a completely fanon construction.

This post explains the issue of the “canon Zvtara” rhetoric from rabid zkers (and you, anon, are absolutely NOT one, in case you were worried).

Alrighty. With that out the way, let’s get into it!

“In The Southern Raiders, Katara realizes she has been wrong about Zuko.”

Gotta start by saying that TSR is not about Zuko. TSR is, first and foremost, about Katara. Katara does not realize she was wrong about Zuko, because here’s the truth - she wasn’t wrong about him. Zuko did horrible things to the Gaang. Katara was not wrong to hold him accountable for that. What Katara does realize is that holding such rage so close to her chest is bad for her. This rage was not solely anger against Zuko, either; it was of course about Yon Rha, too, but it was also anger towards Kya and Katara herself. Essentially, TSR is where Katara realizes she has to forgive herself. Zuko is only one part of her journey (similar to Aang’s role in the episode, if a different end of the spectrum).

This post explains how TSR was fundamentally about Katara.

Additional resources about TSR:

This post explains Aang’s comments to Katara in TSR and how Katara herself recognized their validity.

This post explains why both Aang and Zuko were important to Katara in TSR.

This post is an extensive breakdown of Aang and Katara’s relationship within TSR.

“In Ember Island Players, [Katara] realizes Aang is not as mature as she thought he was…”

You provide no context for this claim, so I’m going to work with the assumption this is about their reactions to the play itself and the infamous kiss!

There is something important we must keep in mind when discussing EIP: the play they watch is literally imperialist propaganda. It is meant to demean the entire Gaang, and indeed it does exactly that. You mention Katara and Aang specifically, so I will recap what I have explained before about their depictions in EIP: Katara, an indigenous woman, is hypersexualized and portrayed as overly emotional (and thus “irrational”). This reinforces the Fire Nation sentiment that women of the Water Tribes are less intelligent and less suited for “responsibility” than Fire Nation women. Aang, a pacifist and the sole survivor of genocide who is also canonly the male character most comfortable with femininity and spirituality, is portrayed as a flighty, airheaded woman (this is a well-known imperialist tactic meant to emasculate the target, seeing as masculinity was often equated with power in fascist regimes; thus, they effectively belittled Aang before the FN audience). This reinforces the Fire Nation sentiment that the Air Nomads were foolish, weak people who deserved to die.

In other words, of course Aang and Katara were upset about how they portrayed in the play. It is understandable that tensions would be running high and consequently that mistakes (we all know the one) would be made.

This post explains how EIP belittles each member of the Gaang (and why the play is not indicative of Zvtara).

This post talks specifically about EIP and their portrayal of Aang and Katara.

Now onto the kiss. As everyone knows and no one has ever disagreed with, Aang was wrong to kiss Katara. Point blank!

But what people do misunderstand is Katara and Aang’s feelings regarding the kiss. Given your above quote, I assume you believe Aang kissing Katara supposedly made her realize that Aang wasn’t as mature as she once thought. On the surface, this seems like a logical conclusion! But digging deeper reveals… well, there’s nothing that indicates this conclusion at all. Even jumping ahead to the finale, when Zuko has doubts over Aang’s return, Katara demonstrates her faith in Aang (although of course she’s nervous - I won’t deny the obvious, lmao) as she says, “Aang won’t lose. He’s gonna come back. He has to.”

In other words, nothing in canon suggests that Katara believes Aang is immature because of what happened in EIP. She still trusts in his return, as she did even before she knew him (and arguably is more confident in him now, given the 60~ episodes of them growing closer). Furthermore, when Aang does disappear, Katara doesn’t have an outburst about how “immature” it was for him to “run away again.” The viewers know Aang didn’t run away, of course (fans who insist he did are not worth arguing with, anon - they don’t understand the show, rip), but that is a luxury the rest of the Gaang is not afforded. And yet even though Aang has vanished off the face of the planet, Katara still believes he will save the world. If anything, that signifies the utmost confidence in his skill and maturity!

To go back to the kiss itself, this post explains the true source of Katara’s conflict in turning down Aang (hint: she says it herself in the episode! you know, the whole war going on) and why the EIP kiss did not sink Kataang’s relationship.

Additional sources about EIP:

This post explains how the EIP kiss was resolved through narrative parallels.

This post explains how the EIP kiss is so often blown out of proportion.

“… and in the finale, Katara does not care a whit that Aang is gone. I am serious and as someone who is no Aang stan but likes him, I’m actually annoyed by how little anyone cared about his disappearance. It went from ‘Aang’s gone!’ to ‘Okay whatever, let’s find Iroh so he can kill Ozai.’”

As I already touched upon, Katara didn’t need a soliloquy to emphasize her connection to Aang once he disappeared. She trusts that he will return. She says so herself. I guess I just don’t understand how you got from Point A, Katara has consistent faith in Aang, to Point B, Katara and the rest of the Gaang didn’t care about Aang’s disappearance. It’s honestly a bit more like Point A to Point Z, lmao! If you would like to expand on your logic here, I would love to hear more!!

There are a few specific aspects I want to note about your rationale, though. You argue the Gaang moves from ‘Aang disappeared’ to ‘let’s find Iroh,’ but the Gaang actually went from:

1. Aang disappeared!

2. They search the entire island for him.

3. Okay, they couldn’t find him, so they track down June and have her try to find Aang.

4. June says to them, “No, I mean he’s gone gone. He doesn’t exist.” (And she clarifies to Sokka that she doesn’t mean dead, either - she means Aang has totally blinked out of their world.)

5. Only after all of this do they decide to track down Iroh.

The Gaang cares immensely about the fact that Aang is gone, and you could actually argue they waste time by trying to track him down. They don’t give up until June essentially tells them that some Spirit World shenanigans were involved. Even if you don’t think they reached that specific conclusion, I have to ask: What else were they supposed to do? They were told Aang didn’t exist! How are they supposed to fix that?

Well, they can’t. So they do the next best thing: they find Iroh, the man who knows Ozai better than anyone and is also one of the most talented firebenders in the world. In my opinion, that’s a very logical step to take.

I’ll be blunt here, lol: in my opinion, nothing of what you listed in your ask is inherently romantic.

Okay. I am going to assume you’ve read the first two posts I linked earlier (“Zvtara did not have an E-L arc” and “the ‘canon’ Zvtara of rabid zkers has issues”), because I do not intend to rehash everything they contain, lol. Consequently, I presume you realize by now that there was no canon romantic interest between Zuko and Katara.

And as I always say, just because there wasn’t a canon romance doesn’t mean people can’t take fanon routes! Of course they can! That’s the entire point of fanon! But fanon is not canon, and I am strictly referring to canon in my discussions.

You claim Katara was all over Zuko, which in itself I don’t think is an accurate assessment, because she doesn’t really do anything with Zuko outside the three points you bring up (other than the June gag, which I addressed in one of the aforementioned linked posts). So I’ll go ahead and break down each instance you provide!

1. “[Katara] was giving [Zuko] a pep talk about Iroh”

Katara asked Zuko if he was okay. She asked him if he was genuinely sorry. She reassures him that Iroh will forgive him. That’s… all. Not to diminish the significance of this conversation, but it’s not exactly an intimate, romantically-charged discussion (unless fanon-ized). But on that note, let’s tackle the canon significance of this moment!

Katara knows firsthand the challenge of forgiving Zuko. And she knows that Zuko understands how hard it was for her to forgive him (note: Katara’s anger was totally justified, and anyone who disagrees is probably a rabid Zuko stan lmao). She also recognizes that Zuko is terrified it will take Iroh the same struggle to forgive him that Katara went through. This scene is not related to romance at all. It’s about compassion. It’s about Katara and Zuko’s friendship having progressed, slowly but surely, to the point where she’s not afraid to extend empathy to him anymore (seeing as the first time, beneath Ba Sing Se, did not go so well; you know - Aang died and all). It’s about Zuko recognizing his own fallibility (and the audience recognizing how much he’s grown). He questions how he can even face his uncle after all he’s done to the man, which is a far cry from his entitled attitude in TSR, where he demanded to know why Katara didn’t trust him when everyone else had forgiven him.

To make this moment, this moment about Zuko’s relationship with his uncle who is all but a literal father to him, this moment of vulnerability, of guilt, of remorse, of growth, to claim this powerful moment is about a nonexistent romantic relationship? In my opinion, that is incredibly reductive to what this scene is supposed to signify. And again, there is nothing wrong with people exploring such a possibility in fanon, but in canon? Nah. It doesn’t track.

2. “[Katara] was going with [Zuko] to Azula”

Don’t forget that at first, Zuko planned to take on Azula alone. He doesn’t request Katara to accompany him until Iroh tells him that he’ll need help. As such, Zuko’s immediate agreement with Iroh is reflective of his personal growth (Book 1 and 2 Zuko would have argued and insisted he didn’t need any help). It also demonstrates, however, that Katara was not obsessively on Zuko’s mind. He doesn’t choose Katara until Iroh points out that Zuko will need assistance in taking Azula down. This means that Zuko’s choice of Katara to join him is a tactical decision, not an emotional one. And by all accounts, it’s a damn good decision! Zuko witnessed firsthand beneath Ba Sing Se a) how powerful Katara was (e.g. that wave after Aang died) and b) how Katara was the only one who could take on Azula*.

Of course, besides the fact that Katara was the only match for Azula, who else was Zuko going to choose? Sokka and Suki, while talented in their own right, were no competition for Azula. Toph, while the greatest earthbender in the world, was needed to metalbend the airships. Katara was the only (and the best!) option.

Also, on their trip to face Azula, the only thing they talk about within their three lines of canon conversation are Azula and Aang. Not exactly a romantic flight, lmao.

*Zuko never saw Aang fight Azula on the drill.

3. “[Katara] was healing [Zuko] and saying he saved her not the other way around”

Actually, this is what the transcript says:

Zuko: Thank you, Katara.

Katara: I think I’m the one who should be thanking you.

You’re right about how their lines refer to them saving each other, but you posit it as a romantic moment, when the lines are actually pretty straightforward. Zuko thanks Katara as she heals him from the partially-redirected lightning strike, and Katara thanks him for trying to redirect the lightning away from her and in doing so saving her life. In terms of canon, there’s nothing romantic about this, lol! (Which I talked about extensively in the E-L post, if you need to reference it again.) The reason being is that you have to take the show itself into context when you do analysis. If there was no canon romantic buildup between Zuko and Katara, why would these lines in canon (not fanon! fanon is free rein, lmao) be interpreted through a romantic lens?

Well, they wouldn’t be interpreted as such. Plain and simple.

“I genuinely don’t get why this isn’t seen as romantic.”

Because looking through a canon lens, they aren’t romantic. That’s all. You are of course welcome to view them as such through a fanon lens!! It’s just about recognizing the line between canon and fanon.

“I will grant you that Zuko would not have allowed Azula to kill anyone but I feel the point here was Zuko realizing his life was pointless if Katara was killed.”

I asked earlier what content in the show itself led you to believe. I have wracked my own mind, and I cannot think of anything that would point to this conclusion. Zuko was in Katara’s good graces for 5 episodes. That’s 8% of the show. Not exactly a lot of time for Zuko to start believing his life would be pointless if Katara was killed, is it?

This post explains the improbability of Zuko having a crush on Katara within canon.

This post explains how Zuko’s racism towards the Air Nomads in TSR and the finale is, well, exactly that - racism (and not a sign of a crush on Katara).

And, of course, as has been said a million times, Zuko taking the lightning for Katara out of romantic interest would completely undermine his redemption arc. Since it has been said over and over and over, I will be brief: Zuko taking the lightning is significant because it is a selfless act (one of his only in the series), and it directly parallels his selfish act of choosing not to intervene when Azula killed Aang with lightning beneath Ba Sing Se. This moment demonstrates Zuko’s growth, how he has learned to accept unconditional love from Iroh and the Gaang and Mai and even Ty Lee and sure, even from Appa and Momo, too. To make this moment of pure selflessness about a nonexistent romance? To force a fanon romance in replacement of canon redemption and canon platonic significance?

Such a decision speaks wonders about a person’s priorities, in my opinion, as well as how amatonormativity impacts them.

Furthermore, Zuko’s choice cements Katara’s position as his surrogate sibling, as she is Azula’s primary foil. Zuko chooses the sister who heals over the sister who harms. I won’t go too much into it here, because it has already been talked about extensively before! Thus, I offer you this post that explains how Zuko and Katara - in canon - are positioned as surrogate siblings as well as Azula’s role in this matter. I also offer this post that lays out through screencaps how Zuko and Katara - in canon - treat each other like family.

Additional sources about the final Agni Kai:

This post in part discusses fanon misinterpretation of the final Agni Kai and why such a lens is not true to canon relationships.

This post explains why the final Agni Kai is not intended to be romantic.

This post explains how the final Agni Kai is primarily about Azula and how reducing it to be a big Zvtara moment is detrimental to both her and to Zuko and Katara themselves.

“And then literally at the end, Mai shows up after Zuko not talking about her at all for six episodes and declares herself Zuko’s girlfriend.”

This point could probably get a post of its own, lol, but fortunately I and others have already written a few! I will link them below - first, however, I question your choice of “declares.” Technically, yes, Mai does say outright that it doesn’t hurt how the new Fire Lord is her boyfriend, but your phrasing implies Zuko resisted her proclamation. When… he doesn’t. In fact, he embraces it, asking if that means she doesn’t hate him anymore (read: he asks if they’re back on good terms again). Zuko clearly doesn’t have a problem with the girl he loves wanting to be with him again - so why do some parts of fandom so adamantly insist he does? (Not you, anon - I am referring to the rabid fanoners, lol.)

Also, regarding how Zuko hasn’t talked about Mai for six episodes, we’ve gotta be realistic with this assessment in terms of canon:

1. It was the crux of the war. They were either going to live or die. There was no time for romance at this point! Sokka and Suki weren’t professing their love on the battlefield, lmao, so it’s not exactly strange that Zuko didn’t bust into a monologue about how he missed Mai. I think they were just a little bit distracted by the possible end of the world, lol, and all that jazz.

2. Zuko probably thought Mai was dead. He knows what Azula is like. He knows his sister doesn’t have time for people who get in her way (Aang can testify to this, lmao). So can you blame him for not wanting to think about how the girl he loved had died (to his knowledge) to save him?

You gotta cut the kid some slack, lol. Anyways! Additional sources about Maiko:

This post breaks down the notion of Maiko and “deserve.”

This post rationalizes through a canon lens why Mai’s arrival at the palace surprised Zuko.

This post is the mother of Maiko metas, explaining in tremendous detail why their relationships works, is relevant to canon, and was well-implemented for what its role was.

“And Katara kisses Aang after being annoyed with and by him arguably since The Southern Raiders.”

What in canon has led you to the conclusion that Katara was annoyed with Aang? What specific moments from TSR to the finale made you think Katara was annoyed with Aang and remained annoyed with Aang? Are there any, or are you thinking about fanon interpretation? (Canon vs fanon strikes again!)

In TSR, Katara explicitly thanks Aang for understanding her perspective. Nothing there is indicative of annoyance (and as in the links provided earlier, she was not angry at Aang/Zuko/etc. so much as she was at herself. well, she was a little bit angry with Zuko, lmao). In EIP, Katara is understandably angry at Aang’s decision to kiss her, but Aang completely backs off, and we see in the part 1 of the finale that there are no hard feelings or weird tension between them. Katara in fact actively expresses concern for Aang after Zuko sporadically attacked him when she demands of the firebender, “What’s wrong with you? You could have hurt Aang!” Even when Aang and Katara do butt heads later in the episode as Aang tries to think of a way to defeat Ozai without killing him, Katara doesn’t stay frustrated. Like I said - when she and Zuko are flying to Azula, she demonstrates her unwavering faith in Aang through her belief that he will return. So… where is the annoyance that you feel was present?

With all this mind, i.e. looking strictly at canon, Katara wasn’t annoyed with Aang during this time. Thus, Katara kisses Aang because she loved him. Because he backed off and gave her the space she needed to make a decision about if she wanted to be with him (hence Katara being the one to initiate the kiss). Because the issue was never about if she reciprocated his feelings (they both knew they loved each other) but rather it had to do with the war. At the end of the finale, the war is over, and there is nothing that prevents them from being together. Simple.

This post explains how Katara’s feelings for Aang develop throughout the series (and were not neglected, as rabid zkers like to claim, for some reason? again - you are not one of them, anon).

This post also covers Katara’s interest in Aang throughout the series.

“I can’t understand why Kataang shippers are okay with such a crap story.”

I mean, you definitely don’t have to ship Kataang. It may not be your cup of tea, and that’s totally okay! But as the above links demonstrate, Kataang was a fantastic story. It was well-implemented into the narrative from Day 1. The soulmateism is unparalleled!

Also, it’s worth noting that A:TLA itself was essentially pre-written. The writers knew how the story would end from the get-go, including that the show would end with Kataang. A few Zvtara gags were thrown in to add a sense of “who will Katara choose?” drama as the show aired, but Zuko and Katara were never planned to end up together. One reason so many newer fans are fine with Kataang from the start is that there’s no tension of waiting a week for a new episode when you can watch all 61 episodes straight through on Netflix, lmao. It’s even more obvious now than when A:TLA was airing that Aang and Katara will end up together, if that makes sense. (Although I talked about this in the E-L post linked earlier, so you probably understand this point already, as it was explained in detail there!)

All of this is to say that Kataang is not a “crap story” in terms of writing (again, personal taste is a different matter) because it was woven in from the beginning and had powerful narrative significance! (Kataang represented numerous complementary components of the series, such as yin and yang, push and pull, air and water, Oma and Shu, etc.)

Now. If you really and truly want to understand why Kataang shippers like Kataang, anon, consider reading some Kataang fanfics or exploring some Kataang headcanons. I read fics involving Zvtara more regularly than you might think, lol, because… well, it’s just a ship. I understand the appeal of romantic Zvtara and I can actually appreciate it when it’s well-written! I’m sure if you’re willing to put in just a little legwork (you don’t need to go the whole mile, lmao - ‘tis just fandom), you’ll realize why people like Kataang, even if it isn’t exactly your thing. You have the range, anon!! You got this!

I hope I managed to answer your questions, my friend! As always, you do not have to agree with anything I have said here. It is totally fine if you and anyone else disagrees! Everything above is simply my own perspective on the matter. Thank you for taking the time to read my response and all the different links I provided! I hope it has expanded your understanding of the subject at hand!

#i spent all day writing this lmaooo #TWO WHOLE HOURS SPENT COMPILING LINKS #amy answers #anon #amy analyzes

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notasiren21 · 3 years

Text

I was having a debate with a Kataang shipper, and eventually we came to differing viewpoints on emotional im/maturity that the two years could do between Kataang and Zutara.

And then, how their lives impacted them in terms of growth and maturing too.

And then I came to the realization of this (and sorry, this is long):

There’s this paved pathway Aang had that Zuko never did, just some pointless goal that was meant to forever keep him exiled and with only an uncle to watch him as he lived in anger and regret

Idk, to me, Aang had this destiny that he had to focus on and get to, a part of him matured for it, but he desperately clung to his freedom, which in turn, stifled his emotional maturity. In a way, it’s like Sokka, but even Sokka had what Aang never seemed to acquire in a sense.

Zuko was robbed of that by ozai, Zuko believed in being good and was naturally a good person by heart (as expressed in scenes with his mother, comparisons with Azula, etc) and he tried to save the lives of several by speaking out against the sacrifice of new troops just to win something.

His mother had left them (essentially him as Azula came to distance herself and become more like her father), he wore the weight of realization that Azula was considered superior against him, he bore the crippling thought that he was going to have to spend his life trying to earn his father’s approval, he lived the weight of his father snatching the role of Fire lord from his uncle, the knowledge that it was wrong as he heard Azula talk ill of iroh and ozai bash him to earn the title, and then how he was expendable to his father.

Aang lived among people who he loved and in turn, loved or adored him back, and tragically, he lost his friends to his role as the avatar, but he always had Bumi and the some of the monks (especially one) and Appa.

Zuko had a scar that engraved the idea that he was nothing but a failure, damaged him into thinking his ideals and morals were wrong when they were what was needed, that he shouldn’t have been born and was lucky enough to even be alive in a sense.

Zuko lost his briefly earned pathway to be the next Fire lord. He was sent on a destination to find the avatar who wasn’t considered a last saving grace or sliver of hope, to never be found again.

To a degree? He knew it was in vain to search for him, but he had nothing else to do but try.

Because not finding him secured his role as a failure, it let him lose to Azula, it didn’t really avenge his uncle, it didn’t secure his right to live if he was basically exiled.

And to another degree, he knew his father abandoned him. But that meant he would have to settle in the knowledge that both his parents left him orphaned in a sense.

He operated under the care, guidance and love of his uncle. The only support in his life. The only one who truly cared for him enough to stay by his side.

He was surrounded by soldiers on ship who didn’t respect him. He was mocked everywhere he went as much as he was feared (something he didn’t want to begin with before the Agni Kai), and he had no home.

I feel like that, especially occurring at the age of 13 I believe, more than forced a few aspects of him to grow up and mature. Enough to acknowledge when he was in the wrong without someone telling him, enough to know when to fix his mistakes or make up for them, enough to realize who was really there for them and who he could be vulnerable with.

To some level, I think he and Katara were on the same wavelength because she witnessed her mother die to save her, she had a huge responsibility in her tribe, she was of an important figure of birth and considered royal, she was practically playing mother to several, and the last water bender to live in the tribe but wasn’t allowed to really brush up on it.

Being with Aang and Sokka, then eventually toph, I think it also aged her to the point where the gap between her and Zuko in ages didn’t matter, it was like it taxed them both enough that they both had what the other was missing.

My mother and I had this debate that I think can apply to this:

“What’s worse, to wake up after being cryogenically frozen after 200 years and see the world new/different but you still be the same as before?

Or wake up after like x amount of years from a coma, and have your childhood robbed from you because you’ve aged and everyone else around you has and moved on?”

We eventually settled on, well they both suck, but seeing the reality of what your life once was is especially crippling. And we settled on the coma one

To me, Aang was just cryogenically frozen.

The world he knew died and a new one began in a sense. Everyone he knew and cared for was dead. His temple was gone and his people.

But he didn’t really have to see reminders of it because it was just history and the past. It was essential, beyond the storyline, for him to be frozen for so long because he didn’t have his old life to look back on and hinder him, all he could do was press forwards because he can’t go back and regret if nothing is there. Seeing the temple? It’s like a relic now, not what he once knew. It’s not as he left it. It’s something else now standing in its place. It’s just now, what is.

Beyond the whole weird avatar mojo stuff, he’s living with no reminders. It’s kinda more, benefiting in a sense? He can move on, he doesn’t have guilt to face him everyday.

Zuko, he was the coma scenario.

He lived his life thinking good of the world and people, and then it’s like what life was really like was revealed to him. And then he just got hit by a truck out of nowhere (consider the metaphorical coma inducing truck an Agni Kai with his father) and everything just kinda, paused for a long while.

Mother is gone, father disowned him, sister couldn’t care less if he was dead like dear daddy, and there’s kinda no point now?

He’s living in this rage induced haze that he’s sorta, disconnected from who he once was. He’s broken and suspended in time of heart ache and self loathing.

Iroh is standing by his bedside and talking to his unconscious state, and the words are going in, but there’s no point because he can’t take them in and process them.

He’s shut down.

And then, it’s like meeting Katara in the cave, it sorta wakes him up for a second, grants a miracle and shows him there’s something outside of the pitch black he’s been seeing for so long.

And then the past comes back in the form of Azula, and false promises and the offering of restoration to what once was now takes over and he falls back unconscious and no one can get through to him again.

Eventually, when the realization hits that he can’t go back, he wakes up

But Zuko now lives with seeing his past everywhere around him. He’s got the knowledge that he’s aged and he needs to accept it and adapt.

He lives with the constant reminders because they’re still fresh, they didn’t go away, and they’re crippling as ever.

That’s why I believe that in a way, Zuko aged and matured enough to be capable of Katara’s affections and love more than Aang. That he could be her equal. Because he’s living with reminders, while Aang is living in an air of ignorance and bliss to a sense because it’s just history, everything has aged or been rebuilt that it’s not the same world he once knew. He’s got a new lease on life

And Zuko has some physical therapy to do. He’s got muscles he needs to strengthen just to walk again in the form of finding his true good nature and being the future Fire lord his people needs. Being the son that wants to take down his father and sister.

Zuko is still young, he still has room to grow and learn more, but Katara has kinda already established herself in a sense and aged more than she should have playing mother and voice of reason at times, even if she has more to learn too.

And I think they’re on almost equal wavelengths to better understand each other and be a supportive life partner together.

#zutara #zuko x katara #Zuko #Katara #Fire bender #water bender #water bender katara #master fire bender zuko #fire bender zuko #master water bender katara #Atla #avatar #avatar last airbender #avatar the last airbender #Aang #meta #comparison #Zuko vs Aang #analysis

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callioope · 3 years

Text

Continuing my reactions to Avatar: The Last Airbender.

This post is about Book 2. See my overall impressions and thoughts on Book 1 here.

Quick/General Thoughts

Uhhh pretty wild there is both a solar eclipse and a super comet happening in the same summer… anyways!!!

Ba Sing Se was so messed up omg

Aang

SMH more adults trying to take advantage of Aang. I was furious with the Earth Kingdom general who tried to force Aang to fight the Fire Lord well before he was ready. Clearly he was not ready! And then the audacity for him to attack Aang and then Katara to provoke the Avatar state was whole levels of messed up.

The Great Appa Kidnapping: Yeah, so, as soon as the sand traders took him, I was like, “Oh no. I’ve heard about this. They are going to be in trouble!” But even then I didn’t know it stretched out over so many episodes. These episodes broke my heart! Aang’s complete distress at having lost Appa. Then the episode from Appa’s POV. Poor Appa! He goes through so much. It’s devastating. And then both Appa and Aang both dream of how they originally met each other? UNFAIR. CRUEL. HOW DARE THE CREATORS DO THIS TO ME. (I’m being facetious I love it I live for this kind of drama this is how i express they were doing good storytelling)

The whole “final chakra” being about letting go of attachments… hmm that felt VERY Star Wars of them… Filoni is this your doing? (Although actually I don’t remember seeing his name on any Book 2 episodes.)

Sokka

My fave continues to be the long-suffering Sokka, just trying to get his family to Omashu, it shouldn’t be this hard!!! This was literally what I wrote at the time of watching “Chapter Two: The Cave of Two Lovers,” and OH LITTLE DID I KNOW!!! [cut to Book 3… lmao… anyways]

Sokka making a map to help keep track of the maze-like cave/tunnel is actually really clever. I can’t believe people think he’s stupid. I mean, sure, it didn’t end up working, but that’s because the cave was magic or whatever, and that is beyond his control!

Side note, but lol at Sokka’s purchases and love for shopping. His ridiculous belt! How excited he was that it matched his bag!

Second side note, I was pretty excited to see that gif where Sokka is making that “I’m watching you” gesture and then goes “Water tribe!”

Katara

Yeah, notice how I don’t have much to say about Katara? It’s not that I don’t like her or that I don’t think she’s interesting, but. I just don’t really have a lot to say about her.

I was amused by how she handled those bullies. My impression before I started watching was that she was going to be this like, pure and GoodTM character, but she definitely has her flaws and that is better.

I really liked the scene where she is able to calm Aang down while he’s in the Avatar state. There was good build up to that, showing her worry every time he entered it and her awareness of the fact that he only ever enters it when feeling upset. The fact that she was able to do that clearly Meant Something. So again, I suppose, I really feel up to this point that the show is very much like “Aang/Katara Endgame!” it felt very obvious to me. And I knew before starting the show that Zuko and Katara are a thing — but Aang and Katara is just so heavy handed that it was impossible for me to ship them with anyone else. They were just foundational to the show. Like it always felt like a foregone conclusion to me, almost as if they were established from the beginning although they obviously weren’t.

Toph

I spent like, the second half of Book 1 thinking “WHEN TOPH WHEN TOPH!” Imagine my ire that she still isn’t around for the first five episodes of Book 2, which is titled “EARTH” my goodness.

But OH was I delighted by “Chapter 6: The Blind Bandit”!!! I loved her intro, I loved how Aang is just immediately in awe of her skills when he sees her. He knows she’s exactly the teacher he’s been waiting for. “She waited and listened!” he says. Yes. I love it. (But also, lol at Sokka booing Aang.) Despite this, Aang really does not handle that first interaction very well!

So frustrating how her parents were treating her. “She’s fragile and helpless!” what a thing to say about your daughter. [Also you literally named her “tough”?!] And he is basically going to imprison her, wtf. & how do you get off saying “the avatar is no longer welcome here”?! smh children whose parents try to “control” their kids always end up being the most rebellious.

I was amused that “my dad changed his mind” apparently was a popular lie daughters use on this show. *facepalm*

I liked the contrast between how Toph wanted to teach Aang and how Katara thought he should be taught! That was interesting. And yeah, Toph certainly lives up to her name.

Zuko & Iroh

Spent a good portion of the early part of this season wondering how Zuko and Iroh could possibly be related to the awful Fire Lord (and Azula for that matter — jeez she is nuts!), and longing to know what happened to Zuko’s mom. (Obviously that would be answered soon!)

Knowing that Zuko eventually joins the Aang crew, but also remembering that I never saw Iroh with them, made me SEVERELY worried that something terrible would happen to Iroh. And I spent the entire rest of the series worrying about that. Uh, especially since, apparently Iroh is hopeless at Survival 101. Honestly that was surprising to me.

Zuko deciding they needed to split up was devastating!!! No!!! I loved the adventures of Zuko & Iroh!! He said, “There's no reason for us to stick together,” and I was like, “Yes there is you idiot! Because you’re family and you love each other!!!” I was so sad. I mean, also Iroh is currently the only person who likes Zuko, so, you know, that might be a good reason to stay with him. Just a thought.

The last thing Zuko needs is to be alone, that will NOT be good for his issues. And lo and behold, look! Immediately, he’s struggling on his own. But I did like that episode (“Chapter 7: Zuko Alone”) because we get to see Zuko’s mom! (Uh, did she have a name?) Turtle ducks are so cute.

“Everything I’ve done I’ve done to protect you.” THIS. SLAYED. ME!!!!!! I mean, y’all know Rogue One is my jam so this parallel with Zuko’s mom and Galen Erso????? I lost it. I just lost it. Plus, though it isn’t confirmed until later, we can tell she’s sacrificing herself to save Zuko and just. (A) what a completely messed up family, but (B) MY HEART. SHE BETTER BE ALIVE is all I’m saying.

Interesting side note: they never show Ozai’s face in the early seasons.

If you assumed that I was delighted to see Iroh has been tailing Zuko this whole time, you’d be correct. I had hoped that was the case and was very glad it was. Although *facepalm* again at Zuko. I suppose he had no way of knowing Katara had healing powers but it was so frustrating knowing if he had just listened to them for one minute they could have helped Iroh after Azula blasted him. At least he made him tea and nursed him back to health.

If the evil advisor of Ba Sing Se had files on everyone and knew everything that went on… I mean… did he know about Iroh and Zuko?

I didn’t jot down any notes about this at the time, BUT. Man. Did I ADORE Zuko and Iroh’s adventures in Ba Sing Se. I mean it was a nice relief from all the other crazy stuff happening. (Not happy to see Jet though. Ugh.)

Finally, though, Zuko’s betrayal at the very end of the season totally shocked me. Because of spoilers, I knew he’d join Aang’s crew, and so it was so confusing! And such a regression, I really didn’t understand it and was very worried about what it would mean for his redemption arc — but more on that in the next post, don’t want to get ahead.

Azula

Oh. Boy. Again, I knew she was going to be crazy, but I don’t think I was prepared for just how messed up she is. “Do the tides command this ship. You said they would not allow us…” Jeez that is pedantic in a very bizarre way and obviously not what was meant… Yikes.

Also, Azula is much better at finding Zuko than Zuko is at finding Aang. Just a stray observation.

“Father regrets your banishment. He wants you home.” [insert IT’s A TRAP gif here]

“If the Earth Kingdom finds us, they'll have us killed. If the Fire Nation finds us, they'll turn us over to Azula. Earth kingdom it is.” Yeah, this line was hilarious but also sad. It really said a lot about Azula, and Zuko and Iroh’s relationship with her.

Had no idea Azula had her own crew. It was incredibly clear that Ty Lee felt coerced to join her and didn’t really want to, but that was less clear to me for Mai. Mainly seemed like Mai was bored with where she was and was just like “shrugs might as well do evil stuff.”

I did know that a character named “Mai” would eventually be Zuko’s love interest (and it is pretty heavily portrayed that she has a crush on him), so at this point, I was very much like, “Hmm. This character is too apathetic and annoying, I don’t want her to end up with Zuko!” Plus, the fact that her name was pronounced “May,” (which was not how I thought “Mai” was pronounced) and I knew Zuko would have a thing with a lady in a tea shop, I wasn’t 100% sure Zuko/Mai were end game.

“She’s crazy and she needs to go down.” I think Iroh said this. I just don’t know what to say. Why is Azula the way she is? That’s never entirely clear to me. In some ways, it’s implied she was just Like That (in the flashback where mom is like “What is wrong with you?”) and perhaps she’s just her father’s daughter. I don’t need a reason, per se. Idk. I just don’t know what to say to her. She clearly needs help.

#avatar the last airbender #avatar: the last airbender #atla #a:tla

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littlemisssquiggles · 4 years

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I love rose garden 😍

I think oscar hasn't dated much at best maybe a girl or to in school or a girl is age is ant set him up with ,so he maybe knows how to date,

I don't think ruby dose,I don't think her date let her date,am after becane fail ,I don't think dating on her mind but I think at some point after,salem gone

Ruby and Oscar will start dating as the show ends I could maybe see them having an on screen kiss in the last volume

Do you think ,rose garden will kiss or date

Sorry if u been ask this be for

You and I share the same sentiments about this wholesome ship between these two budding smaller, more honest souls, anon-chan. Personally I agree with you on thinking that Oscar has probably never dated or been in a romantic relationship before. My assumption is that Oscar has lived a pretty sheltered life with his only source of human contact and companionship being his family back on the Pine Family farm.

Since Oscar stated that he never met huntsmen and huntresses before back in V5, my assumption was that he and his aunt probably lived in the middle of nowhere in Anima where the closest neighbours were probably towns away. Either that or many of their local neighbours moved to the kingdom for the protection of the huntsmen. That being said, my hunch was that Oscar didn’t interact much with kids, especially ones around his age growing up which would explain his social awkwardness when meting RNJR for the first time. At least he’s courteous to adults highlighting a good boi (best boi) who was raised right by his family.

I also liked the thought of Ruby being the first girl Oscar ever truly had a genuine crush leading to those feelings ultimately evolving into love. Looking at Oscar, I more saw him as being one of those types who didn’t really bother much about romance; so much so that I imagined Oscar would be so inexperienced to love that he wouldn’t even realize his own feelings until someone else had to help him make the realization for himself.

I saw Oscar as the type who only allows love to blossom if it’s with someone he trusts wholeheartedly since to him, trust is everything and he’s not one to open his heart to any and every one. But once he does and he’s found the one who has tamed his heart, he will be ever devoted to said person; loving and supporting them unconditionally with every bit of his being.

I pictured Ruby being the same as Oscar. For me, I think outside of admiring them in her favourite childhood fairy-tales and supporting the relationships between her friends in real life, Ruby is quite the little red novice to romance herself. I perceived her as not really being all that interested in romance too since the feeling has never really hit her before. Unlike other characters she might know, the little light of love has never sparked in Ruby before so much like Oscar, she strikes me as being another who probably wouldn’t realize she was in love with someone even if Cupid damn right thwacked her over the head.

That being said, this is what makes the potential of a Rosegarden romance so fascinating to me and why I like it so much. At the end of the day, Ruby and Oscar are just two kids fitted with roles of responsibility beyond their years. They are both often looked to as figures of guidance and wisdom or at least are expected to. All the more reason why I love how the show has highlighted the two showing support for one another since, within our main group of young heroes, they share the most in common (at least in my humble opinion) and can understand each other in ways unique to them; thus making their bond more meaningful than any others they might share.

At this point, I can’t really say whether or not romance is in the cards for the rosebuds. Don’t get me wrong. As I’ve voiced multiple times in the past, this squiggly Rosegardening Pinehead is all for Ruby and Oscar falling in love with each other (particularly if it parallels the Fairy-tale romance that happened between Ozma and Salem a long time ago only with a much happier ending and happily ever after). I’m down for a Rosegarden romance but whether that will be is up to the showrunners. I’m not sure if Ruby and Oscar will “date” but I do like the idea of them sharing an onscreen kiss.

As a matter of fact, once upon a time, long before it was revealed that Oscar will be kidnapped by Salem, I was one of the theorists who kept advocating for it. Therefore I had concocted this scene in my head where Salem gives Atlas an ultimatum to surrender Oscar over to her in exchange for sparing the kingdom from annihilation. And while his comrades were strongly against this, Oscar, on the other hand, had made up his mind that he was willing to trade his own life if it meant the protection of everyone.

I had this scene of Ruby and Oscar professing their true feelings for one another after Ruby desperately tried to convince Oscar not to give himself up to Salem. I had this idea of the Rosegarden first kiss mimicking the first on-screen kiss between Katara and Aang from Avatar: The Last Airbender.

In that series, Aang kissed Katara after expressing his concerns of never returning from confronting Fire Lord Ozai. And as Katara goes in to object, Aang kisses her on the spot as his way of letting Katara know his true feelings for her just in case he never got the chance.

For me, I pictured something like this being done for Oscar with Ruby. With him kissing her as a means of letting her know right then and there how much he loved her; just in case he didn’t return to her in the event that Salem killed him.

I even had this idea of “I love you” being the very last thing Oscar says tearfully to Ruby before he is taken prisoner by Salem and she and the others are left to die in the destruction of Atlas Kingdom. Even if we never get a Rosegarden onscreen kiss, I personally would still like the show to confirm Oscar having feelings for Ruby.

The longstanding Pinehead headcanon is that Oscar has a crush on Ruby and has been in love with her since the moment he looked into his silver eyes; paralleling the young man who met the lone Silver Eyed Warrior in the Warrior in the Woods tale from Fairy Tales of Remnant.

That being said, I’m waiting (ever so patiently) to see if the show would…y’know…do something more to make the notion of Oscar being in love with Ruby more official since I feel like they’ve been more or less teasing that since V5. It’s obvious that Oscar cares a lot for Ruby. It’s clear that he admires her and looks to her as a symbol of hope. However at the same time, it is also clear that Oscar acknowledges Ruby’s vulnerability (the side that she rarely likes to show but is evident to certain characters like Oscar and even Maria Calavera and of course, us as the audience) and the huge burden of responsibility placed on her shoulders and does his best to support her when he can in his own way.

But does this mean that Oscar is in love with Ruby? I’d like to think he is but I’m waiting on the canon to confirm since I feel like they’ve building up to it since the very moment Oscar met Ruby. I don’t know whether or not romance is in the cards for the rosebuds but what I can say for sure is that something important has been building between these two kids since V5 and I’d like to think thatV8 is the time to actually prove this or not since Oscar is expected to be taken by Salem at some point.

Not to mention that he’s also supposed to be dead a la Ironwood and I’m still waiting to see if that will be mentioned at any point by Ironwood when RWBN_P go to confront him up in Amity.

But we’ll have to wait to see what happens anon-chan. But whether or not, Rosegarden is carded to be together or not, let me say this, fam. I’ve voiced this point possibly several times in the past but given the nature of this fandom and how certain-certain shippers are behaving these days, this squiggle meister is going to make this firm statement.

Just like you anon-chan, I love Rosegarden too (if it isn’t obvious already XD). As a RWBY ship, they are my OTP and I adore this ship very much for the potential it has. Despite my own personal gripes with the writing of the show, if there is one thing I will give to the CRWBY Writers is that thus far, I’ve enjoyed the progress they have made with the growing bond between Ruby and Oscar. It is thanks to them and the things they have done with these two why I like them so much and humbly look forward to whatever else they have in store for their growing bond.

That being said, while I might love Rosegarden and why I may even wish for the series to pursue a romance with them---at the end of the day, that is NOT my ONLY motive for supporting this pair. It’s not even my main motive.

I don’t love Rosegarden solely because I want the showrunners to make them endgame and should the showrunners not do so, I will hate them forever. That’s NOT it. That’s not how I am as a person. I have always, ALWAYS said that whatever the showrunners do with this pair---whether it becomes a romance or stays purely platonic, I will respect it.

And even now, as we’re entering a new season, I stand by that. Regardless of what the showrunners choose to do with Rosegarden, as a supporter of the pair, I will respect it and it will NOT deter me from giving the pair as much love and support as I’ve always done.

Basically---in a nutshell, if Rosegarden becomes canon, this squiggle meister will support it. But if Rosegarden doesn’t become canon, guess what? This squiggle meister will still love and support it. How about that, huh?

I feel the need to express this now because there honestly seems to be this weird vibe in the FNDM in respect to Rosegarden and its community. It always annoyed me how certain-certain shippers and their respective community would go around the place acting as if their favoured ship was better than others even going so far as to bully other shipping communities because of it. In my opinion, there is no need for that. Just like what you like. Enjoy it however you wish and be respectful enough to allow others to do the same. That’s how I’ve always looked at it and that’s how I move.

And that’s one thing that made me appreciate the RG community. For the most part, all of us share that same sentiment. We love our ship but we respect other ships and their respective shippers. Probably because some RG shippers are multi-shippers. While I’m not a multi-shipper--- since I more tend to latch onto one favoured ship and stick with it till the end---this is one thing that I liked and respected a lot about the RG community.

…Which is why it honestly disgusts me when I see the things that certain-certain shippers say about us.

What’s even worse is that even when we attempt to defend ourselves, somehow that proves to make things worse than better because then other certain-certain shippers start implying that we’re fighting a war with certain-certain ships when in reality, we’re not fighting anything. We’re just shielding ourselves against the nonsense the other people are sparking.

We didn’t start the fire yet…we’re being held responsible for it by association and even when we try to out the fire, somehow we still get chastised both by the folks who hate us and the ones we hoped would understand. It is honestly a mess and if you’re unware of it then stay oblivious, fam.

For the longest while I have heard stories about the toxicity within the RWBY shipping communities. But back in those earlier times, the toxicity was mainly contained to a few certain-certain ships and their shippers. Now it may seem that the toxicity is starting to spread into the RG community. Not in the form of us becoming toxic ourselves in our own behaviour towards other ships but more in the sense of certain-certain shippers kicking up dirt and trying to start fights with the RG community by making arguments against us whether it be here on Tumblr or Twitter or the dreaded cesspool that is the RWBY Reddit community.

And…sadly to say, I’m seeing some of my fellow Rosegardeners taking the bait and…that honestly needs to stop.

That type of attitude is one of the reasons why I’ve started to slowly back out of the RWBY community. That doesn’t mean that I’m jumping ship. I’m still following the RWBY train---just picture it more as me following it alone from the comfort and sanctity of my own little squiggle mobile gently chugger-chugging down the tracks. This way I can enjoy the show the way how I want to only engaging when I feel like it and more importantly, staying very, very, VERY FAR away from all the chaos that I’ve seen stirring up for seasons.

I still like the show and I’m still very much invested in seeing where it goes, particular with Rosegarden but I’d be lying if I said it wasn’t becoming increasingly difficult for me to just enjoy the things that I genuinely like about RWBY.

Rosegarden and the development of these two smaller, more honest souls (individually and as a pair) are two of the things I still really like about RWBY. However I’m honestly tired of going on the tags and seeing my fellow RG shippers sharing and responding to the discourse surrounding the ship sparked by certain-certain shippers.

I’m tired of seeing all the weak strawman arguments made by said certain-certain shippers against RG and why they believe their ship is superior and more likely to become canon and whatever. Like seriously? WHO CARES!

I’m tired of it all and I genuinely wish my fellow RG shippers would stop answering these types of people. When will you learn that you are fighting a losing battle? It doesn’t matter how many posts you make. How much good evidence you provide from the show or the showrunners. Even if you are in the right, it all doesn’t matter. These types of people don’t care. All that matters for them is stirring up nonsense and throwing hissy fits when they don’t get their way. It is childish behaviour at display and nothing anyone says will stop it. So why even bother to entertain it at all?

This is not me trying to knock down my fellow Rosegardeners in the RG community or even me throwing shade at others to “start shit”---I’m just…tired! Tired of seeing that shit, y’know what I mean?

Shipping is supposed to be fun. Happy fun times where you get to gush and nerd out about your favourite pairings, not really because them becoming canon was all that important but just because you like it. What happened to just liking something and having a perfect platform to like it and enjoy it with others who feel the same way about it with you…IN PEACE? No malice. No disrespect. No fighting over which ship is going to be canon endgame (as if the canon means jack-shit in the long-run because look at Zutara, Sheith and Klance for Pete’s sake). I dunno. Overall, I’m just tired of the RWBY shipping community as a whole and it’s becoming tough just to have fun being a Rosegarden shipper anymore. So I think stepping back is a good way to go.

Sorry if this response went off course anon-chan. It’s just that your question motivated me to express things that’s been on my chest for some time. I hope you don’t mind and hopefully I was able to give you a decent answer in all of this. Feel free to let me know or not.

~LittleMissSquiggles (2020)

#squiggles answers: rwby #oscar pine #ruby rose #oscar and ruby #rwby rosegarden #rwby theories #rwby volume 8 theories #Anon-ninja #squiggles answers

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lilygrants · 4 years

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Everybody still wondering-- Who’s Su’s dad? Who’s Izumi’s mom?

Did none of you learn from Operation: Beifong and the reveal of Lin’s dad’s identity?

In sum,

1. The answer isn’t necessarily going to be a satisfying one. If you have your heart set on one particular answer, chances are you’ll be disappointed. Theorizing is all well and good, but wedding yourself to any particular theory is just asking to be disappointed.

2. The answer isn’t necessarily going to be an important one. Knowing the identity of Lin’s father changed absolutely nothing about Lin. Lin’s father was a random-ass nobody. That happens sometimes. He had absolutely no relevance to the story, the backstory, Lin’s character arc, Toph’s character arc, or anything else. But the literal SECOND that Lin’s existence was revealed to the public -- the VERY FIRST question people EVER asked about her -- was “Who’s the father?” They might as well have asked what kind of underwear she had on for the good it did! I mean, I blame society. And the glut of other fiction where “who’s your daddy” basically drives the plot. But I sometimes wonder if the writers kicked around the idea of Lin’s dad being a character we’d heard of, like Teo or The Duke (Satoru didn’t yet exist, and Teo is basically Toph’s type-- sweet dorks who are also handy geniuses), but finally decided to make it Nobody McWhothehell because it ultimately didn’t matter and also the anticlimactic nature of the reveal -- both the manner in which it happened and the utter uselessness of the information -- was genuinely hilarious.

With that being said, here are my theories! Free to good homes!

I don’t think Sokka is Su’s father, because the things that Su herself says about her father are kinda bleak. Sokka had a super close relationship with his own father, and the Water Tribes prioritize family. (Also, y’know, Suki.) That would make him easily the worst parent in the crew.

[Bonus Unpopular Opinion: I think Aang gets a bad rap from the fandom in this department, because being a busy and distant parent is a common damn flaw with high-stakes jobs and overachiever parents, and just because Bumi and Kya perceive him as loving Tenzin best doesn’t mean he did, just like Tenzin’s perception that Aang took them along on those vacations (or even vacations of their own before he was born, there is a serious age gap between him and Bumi) doesn’t mean he’s right. Seriously, every single damn American President and their spouse up until the 1970s or so is much, much worse than Aang and Katara in this regard, and to say that I really identify with Tenzin when he has to confront the fact that the father he loved is a Real Flawed Individual despite otherwise being a kind, good, and loving person would be one hell of an understatement. You will be a very, very lucky adult (or teenager or child!) if you never experience this particular rite of passage. Think of it like Zuko’s decision to join Azula in Ba Sing Se. It hurts, but only because it’s so real. There’s probably also something to be said here for Aang not having any parents of his own-- as Zuko so rudely points out in the pilot. The only real models he has for fatherhood are Gyatso, who he and Roku explicitly describe as a friend, and Hakoda and Iroh, who -- brace yourselves -- spend a lot of time away from their kids because of their political and professional obligations. By the time Aang really has time to observe them, they’ve both resolved the issues this causes with their kids riiiight when he wasn’t looking, especially since Katara, Sokka, and Zuko have plenty of these obligations of their own.]

Su’s dad is probably another nobody like Kanto.

I have three theories about Izumi’s mom, besides the commonly-accepted idea that it’s Mai. (She might also be a random nobody like Kanto, though. I haven’t discounted that.)

1. It’s Ty Lee. She’s the only character who might have wavy hair! And her suggestive “I’m freezing!!” :D to Zuko in The Beach when Mai was playing Not Interested was adorable and hilarious.

2. It’s Suki. I genuinely don’t believe this, because the Suki/Zuko hints in the comics are... I want to say, weak? Like, they’re vague and can’t hold a candle to the feelings Suki and Zuko profess for Sokka and Mai. With that being said, I ship it like FedEx (Sokka, you come too).

3. It’s Azula. In this scenario, she’s obviously not Zuko’s biological daughter but his niece that he adopted and raised as his own. Izumi herself may or may not be aware of this. It’s a soapy twist that I don’t actually bank on being true (especially since Izumi has no story relevance at all), but its implications are fun to imagine. I mean, if Zuko just never had a kid of his own, then a child of Azula’s would be the only viable heir to the throne. And while I don’t necessarily buy the idea of Azula going full good guy (mostly because it’d be a waste of such a good bad guy, but also because she’s literally never been set up for it like Zuko was-- she has half his sympathy points and NONE of his good intentions), I do like the idea of her and Zuko finding a detente as adults. Zuko being a lot more pragmatic than his friends, so long as he could hold Azula to some kind of morality clause, I do think they would make a hell of a political team. Azula seems to be gunning for this as of Smoke and Shadow, staging her last fight with Zuko among the graves of the Fire Lord’s advisors, and Zuko is about the only person she has any respect for. She’s acknowledged him as the true heir, she’s acknowledged that she wants to be the voice in his ear, and if she could get to a point where she could openly acknowledge that she wants him to love her, and actually make an effort to earn a positive regard from him beyond the familial love he feels for her naturally, I could see them having a cordial but fraught relationship based around their mutual desire to promote each other’s best interests. Also known as (dysfunctional) love. And in that scenario, I could see Azula getting to a point where, doubting her own abilities to parent well as a shadowy figure in the Fire Nation’s dark underbelly, she asks her brother to be the one to raise her child, knowing that if Zuko can love her in spite of all the shit she’s put him through, then he’ll love Izumi. And since he did so much better under the care of an uncle than a biological parent, I mean... the precedent’s been set.

Of course, the sheer length of that theory and the number of cogs needed to get it in gear means it’s likely not true. But it’s fun to think about!

#lok #atla

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faithandfairies · 7 years

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Okay, so I finished The Legend of Korra and loved it.

Seasons 1 and 3 happen to be my favorite, although my favorite episode has to be the backstory of the avatars with the original avatar in season 2.

There is just something about the team (Avatar) dynamic in seasons 1 and 3 that I love. Not to mention the family dynamic of Tenzin and his family that are pretty much Korra’s extended family and the presence of Lin Beifong, who is often Korra’s personal protector and a force to be reckoned with.

I also adore the fast pace of season 1 especially, which is missing in the first few episodes of season 2 and kind of made them a bit hard to get into for me. Despite the subject matter being interesting.

I love all the characters, the animation is fantastic, the shots are great and remind me of a real movie with cameras and different characters being in focus and others being out of focus in the same shot depending on the story in the moment.

The story itself is great and the action is superb and the animation for that specifically is amazing. Not to mention the switch between scenes and things that are taking place at the same time in different places is seamless.

I love the voice acting as well.

It’s just high quality all around.

I’m glad Korra didn’t end up with Mako though. I mean, it would have been fine in the sense that it could have been chalked up to the Avatar’s bad decision making when it comes to their personal life, which would be believable since they made it clear that Aang himself wasn’t without faults hen it came to that. Them emphasizing that he wasn’t the best father in the world and all.

But, I’m glad they didn’t go that way.

Mako was really bad for Korra and I’m gad she definitively ended things herself way before moving on. I like Asami. They did make it clear that Asami was able to be for Korra what Mako wasn’t. Which was a sounding board.

When Korra second-guessed herself or tore herself down Asami was there to build her back up. Mako just helped her second-guess herself or doubted her whenever he saw fit. I think that the Avatar having someone that truly believes in them by their side is essential. I’m watching Avatar: The Last Airbender and that’s one of the first things that I’ve picked up on there via Aang and Katara. Katara has this unwaiverng faith in Aang, which I kind of love. Otherwis I’m having trouble getting into the show a bit. But we’ll see.

As for Korrasami, as they’re called,while they’re undoubtedly great together- Korra also being for Asami what she needs, being there for her when she lost her father permanently where Mako I think was sitting sleeping next to Asami while she was grieving after her father almost killed her- it still came out of left field near the end of season 2.

If you’d told me in season 1 and early season 2 that they would get together I would have said that you were crazy. And the craziest thing is I knew and I still didn’t believe it. Even though I saw Varrick and Zhu Li coming from a mile away. No matter what happened there before they finally happened. No woman takes that much crap from a man unless she either loves him (more than she loves herself) or thinks she’s completely worthless (possibly because he’s made her feel that way-I’m looking at you, Emma (OUAT)). And Zhu Li was clearly not the latter. But anyway.

As I was saying I knew Korrasami was going to happen as I hail from the Once Upon a Time Swan Queen fandom and the ending of The Legend of Korra has been compared to the ending of OUAT episode 6x10, which is coincidentally my favorite episode of that show.

As such The Legend of Korra has convinced me that there is no such thing as unintentional. That when writers across any show aren’t trying to make it look like two characters are into each other, guess what, it translates on screen as them not looking like they’re into each other. Ether there’s barely any interaction between said characters or when there is there’s very clearly no hidden meaning. Nothing is ambiguous. Which is basically the first 1 and 3/4th seasons of The Legend of Korra. Compared to the last 2 1/4ths.

It’s a clear contrast of how two characters who are not supposed to be seen as more than friends if friends at that interact vs. how two characters interact when there’s more and that more is deliberately left open to interpretation. What I’ve concluded is that if writers don’t want people to interpret things in other ways than they intended they don’t leave room for it in their writing, etc. It’s that simple. Claiming otherwise, as in that “people will interpret things how they want” is the equivalent of saying you’re not a skilled enough writer to tell the story you say you wish to tell. Or you’re trying to attract different audiences by lying in your writing and execution about the story your telling.There’s no in between.

Korra and Asami truly came out of left field. But the writers were clearly in control.

The first season and most of the second had them barely interacting. And when they did it was because Asami was helping Korra because she’s a good person and was basically an extension of Mako. There was also clear rivalry between Korra and Asami and vying for Mako’s attention. Outside of that Asami and Korra barely had a conversation. They couldn’t even really be friends since Mako couldn’t make up his mind on which girl he wanted to be with, they both let him play them initially and were pretty much waiting for him to decide and that automatically pitted them against each other.

It started for me when Korra saved Asami’s life, pulling her back from getting speared by one of Varrick’s arows I believe, without breaking a sweat or waiting for Asami to thank her or react in any way that the Korrasami ship took to the water. That was in late season 2 I believe. That moment also reminded me of another OUAT moment in 6x10, but oh, well.

Still, it wasn’t until Mako betrayed Asami a second time and Korra definitively ended things with Mako that Korra and Asami started bonding.Over their mutual experiences with Mako basically.

Asami proved to Korra that she was a better sounding board and suddenly they seemed connected at the hip. They were fighting side by side, going everywhere together. Korra often saying hello and goodbye to Asami first. They even had Asami sitting with Korra while meditating perfectly paralleling villain Zaheer’s girlfriend sittting with him while meditating.

They had Korra deferring to Asami for a lot of important tasks such as taking her wounded father home where before Korra barely spoke to her directly and never to give her a task that didn’t involve engineering I believe, let alone one that involved someone that Korra loved deeply. They also had Korra hurt and vulnerable with Asami in more ways than just the meditating. It’s no secret that you should only meditate with someone you trust completely next to you not just to protect you, but not to hurt you themselves, because your body is completely defenseless in that state. And let’s be honest, Asami may not be a bender but she is lethal if she wants to be. but aside from the meditating Asami was also the one to flee on Naga from the Red Lotus literally with Korra tucked against her chest. Granted, they got captured by the Earth Queen’s people but still. And Asami single-handedly ended up saving Korra from that fate on top of that. So the girl is something else.

Then there was the fact that apparently Asami dressed Korra for Jinora’s ceremony. Usually that sort of thing is implied, not shown completely. But it still a big deal. Being naked in front of someone even just because they’re helping you dress is another way of making yourself vulnerable. A state worsened for Korra because she also happened to be in a wheelchair. And for anyone doubting that Korra couldn’t dress herself while in a wheelchair they had her explicitly say that she couldn’t.

Not only that, Asami offered to come with Korra while she was recovering. Which would have meant being there for Korra in any way she needed. For emotional support, dealing with the worst parts of Korra when she got frustrated because she couldn’t get back on her feet fast enough. But also dealing with Korra’s physical limitations, helping her where she couldn’t help herself. I’m sure Asami knowingly did that.

Then there was the fact that Korra after having been close to both Mako and Bolin for a lot longer than she had been to Asami, only wrote to Asami. Something that can only be described as...gay. It simply meant that their connection went deeper or was different somehow. Usually being romantically interested in someone changes things, depending on the relationship often implies that you trust them with your truth and makes you go the extra mile when it involves them. I’d like to point out that this letter business too is something used in OUAT in 6x11.

There’s also the romantic hand-holding while Korra is in a wheelchair, not to mention the hugs that I believe were non-existent for the first few seasons. Only to have Korra and Asami hug each other before anyone else. There’s also Asami explicitly alluding to missing Korra and making it clear she was excited to see her again after three years. And let’s not even talk about their dialogue right when they do see each other again.

What else?

Oh yeah, the lover’s spat, which historically hasn’t only happened between lovers, but people who want to be lovers or consider themselves in love which makes them want to look out for the other person which sometimes inevitably leads to overstepping.

Half of TV show Castle’s Caskett’s fights in a nutshell. Beckett wants to go on a suicide mission. Castle wants to stop her from getting herself killed because he loves her and therefore doesn’t want to lose her and he oversteps. Fun fact: Caskett ended up married with three kids.

In Korrasami’s case Asami talks about visiting her dad, Korra remembers how Asam almost died last time she saw her father and would like it to not happen again. The logical thing would be to keep her away from her father. She tells Asami this, which is overstepping. Not even because of her opinion. But you know why?

Because she’s been away for three years. Therefore she doesn’t have a say in what happens in Asami’s life. Which implies that at some point she did. Have a say. In Asami’s life. You see? Also, typical (“It’s my life”) Caskett.

Oh, and the most telling.

Korra actually blushes as Asami compliments her haircut. To my knowledge animators don’t go out of their way to animate one girl blushing as a reaction to another girl complimenting her on her hair. Unless she’s shy or it’s homo intended, you know. And Korra is not shy.

Also, apparently the writers confirmed it. And apparently the comic, which I’m about to read, is hella gay.

What gets to me though is that while Korrasami has had some well-placed “Harold, they’re lesbians” moments, they have been nowhere near as plentiful or obvious as the Swan Queen ones on OUAT, except for Korra’s uncharacteristic blush. And yet Korrasami’s canon and Swan Queen is unintentional. Yeah, right.

#the legend of korra #korra #team avatar #korrasami #ouat #swan queen #castle #caskett

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seyaryminamoto · 7 years

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How does Sokka and Azula make sense? Not bashing just confused. I have attempted, really, REALLY attempted to read the fanfiction with them but I can't fathom it. Personally I can see Azula and Aang or Azula and Ty Lee better...

Oh, boy. Gotcha, I understand you’re not bashing, but this is going to be hard to explain if that’s what you think makes a better match for Azula.

What I’m getting from your preferences is that this really is a matter of tastes. You may be choosing Ty Lee and Aang over their gentleness, maybe? You think they’re happy, they’re sweet, so they’re ideal counterweights to Azula’s cold, abrasive nature? If that’s what you’re thinking, naturally you won’t see how Sokka and Azula make sense. This may be how you’re looking for Azula’s “happy ending”, if we may call it that, and I’ll say there’s nothing wrong with you thinking that way, Anon. You are allowed to have your own opinions and shipping tastes, regardless of what they may be.

But, alas, as it must be obvious, I find Azula’s “happy ending” can be very different from what Ty Lee or Aang could provide, and it happens to be extremely fulfilling for me to see Azula and Sokka together instead. Below, a longer explanation of why I choose Sokka and Azula over any other ship for them.

For starters, it must be obvious that I disagree with you. I absolutely adore Sokkla, with the force of a thousand suns, and I’ve never found a pair that suits each other as well as Sokka and Azula do. And I mean in any other fandom, too. Matter of tastes indeed, but this is how it’s been for me up to date.

So, of course, that means I find other Azula ships to be less satisfactory than Sokkla. And here I’ll explain a few things where, in my opinion, Sokka surpasses Ty Lee and Aang as partners for Azula:

Personally, I don’t like Ty Lee’s history with Azula. While Ty Lee can be very sweet, she also has proven to be one character (along with Mai, truth be told) who can lie to Azula’s face and Azula will swallow it all without having any clue of what’s going on. Ty Lee has learned how to lull Azula into false senses of security, and she betrayed Azula, something Azula will have a lot of trouble getting over, if she ever does. The way I see it, Ty Lee and Azula would have no walk in the park fixing this relationship, because Azula’s likeliness to trust her friend again isn’t very good. Especially when Ty Lee, canonically, isn’t interested in fixing this relationship. So… as I see it, canonically, Ty Lee’s dishonesty is a major problem that won’t be easy for Azula to overcome. While she could be very loving if she feels like it, the show (and then the comics) press that Ty Lee doesn’t really feel like being loving with Azula, at least ever since Azula yanked her out of the circus.

Sokka doesn’t offer the same problem. Sokka is ridiculously honest, blunt to the point of insensitive: this is something I personally think Azula needs. He won’t pull his punches, he’ll tell her what he truly thinks about anything. Whether she’s going about things right, whether she’s going about them wrong, he won’t hesitate to tell the truth because he also has a very bad sense of self-preservation. I mean, Azula shoots a fireball at him and yet he still stands there waving at Ty Lee because she smiled at him? In clear shot? So yes, no self-preservation. He’d tell Azula blunt truths and only think “Oops, she didn’t take that well” a little too late.

But the thing is, Azula would appreciate his brutal honesty. Her closest friends lied to her, betrayed her, chose someone else over her. If someone like Sokka, honest to no end, picks HER? She knows he’s for real. She may think he’s wrong to want a monster, may hesitate, may be unsure of how this will work out, but she’s going to know he means it. It’s not going to be empty words or shallow promises with him. This in particular is something I emphasize as a quality Sokka provides in this relationship that is hardly paralleled by any other ships (also, if he ever did try to lie about anything it’d be obvious too, so Azula would be able to tell immediately, that’s how I write it anyways).

And the loving aspect Ty Lee provides is something Sokka could provide too. Just look at him in his relationship with Yue, how he defends her even when Toph wasn’t even attacking her outright. If you ask me, Azula deserves someone like that. Someone who’d stand up for her regardless of whether she’s listening or not. Someone whose dedication to her is absolutely genuine. And Sokka can very easily be that someone, if their relationship is developed properly, of course.

Now, as for Aang, does sound reasonable to some degree that the most morally and ethically correct character would influence one of the more morally corrupt ones, I guess? But the thing is that Aang’s morality is very… uh, extreme, I’d say. Azula has always been ends-justify-the-means, and I don’t think Aang could tolerate this easily at first (which would make relationship development a lot more complicated for them). Aang didn’t want to kill Ozai at all, refused to (although, uh, he kinda has killed other nameless people before, surely, soooo… that was kinda hypocritical, but the show let it slide), and he also reacted explosively when the others insisted that it was the only way (sure, they were wrong, but at the time they seemed to be right). Whether Aang is ethically correct or incorrect, the fact of the matter remains that he’s very strict with his sense of morality.

Meanwhile, Sokka’s morals are top-notch if you ask me, even though he doesn’t see the world in black and white. He dares trust a Fire Nation old man from as early as episode 10, and he challenges Jet because he knows is doing the wrong thing. This isn’t to say Sokka is exempt from making morality mistakes, but he’s usually a lot less preachy about his ethics, too. He has his principles, but he doesn’t really force them on anyone. He tried to convince Katara not to kill Yon Rha because he knows it won’t bring their mother back, but he doesn’t hesitate about doing what needs to be done to protect his friends and family. He will blow up a bunch of tanks off the Northern Air Temple if he has to. He will kill Combustion Man. He will tear down all the airships he can if it means stopping them from burning down the Earth Kingdom.

The basic difference is that Sokka doesn’t LIKE resorting to drastic measures, but he will do it if he thinks there’s no other choice. Aang instead won’t ever want to resort to those drastic measures, and if backed into those situations he’ll likely always try to find another way out. The way I see it, Aang’s strict mentality that won’t accept murder, for instance, as a resource to put an end to a menace or two, won’t sit well with Azula. Instead of leading her to rethink her own ethics, it can lead her to dismiss him as childish, innocent, idealistic and whatnot, and as I said above, this would cause rifts between them. Sokka, instead, will kill if death is the only way (but he will always choose another way if there’s another one). His cold blood in these regards is not too different from Azula’s: but his morality is a lot better than hers. In matters where she might think “If the enemy won’t comply then we threaten them…”, Sokka will stop her if he can think of another alternative to achieve success. And she will listen to the alternative, because maybe it can be more effective than what she wants to do. But Sokka won’t stop her with “No, this is so wrong!” but rather, “You don’t have to go to those extremes when this is a perfectly feasible alternative where nobody gets hurt”.

Sokka serves as a moral influence on Azula really well, if you ask me, because of how much of a pragmatist he can be. In those regards, he won’t be too different from her. But he will never pass a sentence on someone just on the basis of where they came from (old man from the Fire Nation, as an example), he won’t preach morality in a strict way even if he will certainly try to stop her from making bad mistakes and treating people wrongly. But she likely won’t feel like he’s a goody-two-shoes, the way she might with Aang. And I think that would make her a lot more receptive to what Sokka would say about morality than what Aang would.

But there are also other reasons why I suspect she’d listen to Sokka, and respect him, and it’s involved with one of the most powerful reasons why, I think, people ship Sokka and Azula: They have a huge number of things in common!

First off, their families are fairly similar, only, Sokka’s isn’t a toxic mess while Azula’s is. The two of them admire their fathers (as usual, let’s not focus on the awful things Azula’s dad did…), gravitated towards them instead of their mother, from the looks of it. And they are the trouble-making, teasing siblings. Sokka will mess with Katara a lot, usually gets bitten back for it, Azula will tease Zuko to no end and Zuko explodes: both Sokka and Azula are, thus, the pragmatic, intelligent siblings with a sense of humor to siblings who are emotion-oriented, constantly striving to do the right thing, and whatnot.

So, their families are similar, and also they both have sense of humor. A major, seriously important factor, though, is intelligence. Sokka and Azula are both the smartest people in their respective groups (which, interesting, also turns them into the leaders). Azula certainly seems smarter, going by how her long-scale plans tend to pay off flawlessly, but therein lies the difference, the way I see it: Sokka likes long-term plans but he’s not so good at executing them. Instead, the show presents us a Sokka who can improvise rather quickly, who can analyze situations very fast and come up with solutions to handle every obstacle on the way. So, we have two tacticians here, but different kinds of tacticians: she’s good for long-term planning, he’s good for short-term. Imagine the unbelievably badass team such pair would make in a battlefield. I tell you, not a lot of people could stand against such leadership and tactical power.

But of course, there’s a lot they’re not equals on. Their origins are vastly different, and even though Sokka is somewhat a prince, he was raised humbly while Azula wasn’t. Water Tribe, Fire Nation, bender, non-bender. But see, curiously Azula doesn’t discriminate races or nations. At most she is classist, since she does call others “peasants”, but she takes the Dai Li into her service just fine because she sees how useful they can be. She discards a whole procession of firebenders and chooses to travel and finish her mission with two non-benders. So, if anyone’s thinking “She’d never want a Water Tribe non-bender”, the evidence really says the opposite. She’d be able to see what he has to offer, no matter his origins or lack of bending.

The encounter during the Eclipse also speaks for something that I don’t even need to headcanon as a possibility. Azula notices Sokka’s leadership, singles him out as the one who needs to be stopped. She might have tried a different strategy if she had seen Aang was the leader (like “At this moment, my forces are preparing to attack as soon as the sun is clear again, and your precious friends won’t survive… that is, unless you help them now instead of playing around with me”, for instance). She doesn’t. She goes for Sokka. And Sokka pushes her to that wall, glaring at her with defiance, and she responds with the same challenge in her eyes. Fact is, he’s not afraid right then and there. He’s fierce, he’s strong, and she’s seeing into the eyes of a man who will stand up to her if need be. Only when she attacks does he back off, and even when she ran he briefly wanted to stop her before realizing he’d made a terrible mistake by falling for her trap.

What this scene makes me think, in conjunction with the Boiling Rock’s fight, where Sokka and Zuko fight her, is that Azula would have no trouble in genuinely respecting Sokka, just the way she respects Mai, for instance. Sokka actually could have killed her in Boiling Rock, you know? There are moments where he’s just holding Space Sword inches away from her face or throat. Azula struggles keeping him at bay, and you can see he’s making her struggle. Basically: respect. As a warrior, as a leader, as a rival tactician, Azula absolutely would grow to respect Sokka because she already did in the show. And frankly, this sort of intellectual-warrior-respect bond isn’t something I can see in her canon or potential relationships with any other character in the show. This level of equal standing between them, the whole fact that the Day of Black Sun turns out to be Sokka vs. Azula (both physically and intellectually, since it’s his plan vs. her response to his plan), it tells you there’s potential. Lots of it.

Now, I cannot and will not deny they’ll butt heads, A LOT. Something else they have in common is stubbornness, no doubt. Neither Aang or Ty Lee are this stubborn, so maybe this is one of the reasons why you feel those two would match Azula better. Thing is, if Sokka and Azula find a rhythm, figure out how to handle their differences, how to balance each other, they make a brilliant match regardless of their stubbornness (if anything they get like Gladiator Sokkla as they are right now: their conflicts become lighter, sillier, and they just love it). I, personally, write them to make this happen. I write Sokkla to give them balance, not for one to overcome the other in any way. I want them equals, never uneven.

Truth is, the reason I jumped fully on board with Sokkla was because I ended up concluding this was the relationship that, if handled well, could make Azula the happiest. Sokka would get her, you know? He’d influence her in regards of morality, encourage her towards being better, but not by preaching how to be a model citizen to her, and he’d also be a challenge in regards of intellect: just imagine the board games, the two of them testing each other, working to beat one another and figuring out the other’s weaknesses and strengths. Sparring-wise, Sokka already proved in canon that he can be a challenge to her, and Azula is clearly aware of how deadly his sword is. Whether you do what I did, by having it so Azula hadn’t be taught how to use swords and Sokka teaches her, or whether you make it so she always knew, they can spar and have lots of fun with that too. And heck, a recent headcanon I thought of was Hakoda, Sokka and Azula having a bad jokes competition that everyone else flees from (it is known Hakoda and Sokka have the same sense of humor).

In short, I see a future with Azula and Sokka that holds endless adventure for them. If their potential wasn’t this great, I assure you, Anon, I would have never written a fic of the size of Gladiator. I’m nowhere near done with it. There’s so much story to tell with these two, and it’s amazing to rewrite ATLA completely with these two at the center.

(Also, I answered another ask about why I think Sokkla is the perfect match for Sokka, and not just for Azula, so if you’re interested in that side of the matter, here you go. Better than repeating myself.)

You are allowed not to ship Sokkla, nobody will stone you, nobody will be disappointed in you (plus, you’re anonymous, so who’d even know? xD). If you don’t see it after all I wrote here, that’s fine. If you still think Ty Lee or Aang make better matches for Azula, that’s fine. People can indeed agree to disagree and not clash about it, right? Only, if you follow me you should know (if you haven’t realized it yet) that I’ll always be posting Sokkla, so I warn you already that, um, you may not enjoy yourself much here if you can’t wrap your head around the ship. But really, you may just be like I am with Toph and Sokka. I have never been able to ship that, even though I tried at first. It just doesn’t work for me on some fundamental level, so if that’s what’s going on with you and Sokkla, I get it. Just, keep in mind the reasons I described are as valid as anyone else’s ideas for shipping Azula with someone else. I think the amount of fanfiction that has been written for them speaks for itself regarding how much potential Sokkla has.

Anyways, thank you for coming into my askbox to ask this out of genuine interest, and I hope my answer wasn’t rude in any way.

#anon #also in case anyone misunderstands #this ask has been waiting to be answered for weeks #it's not involved with what's happened the last two days

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kristallioness · 7 years

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"North and South: Part Two" - a review

My copy of "North and South: Part Two" arrived last week and I reread it. Now, I'm gonna write down my thoughts and opinion as a contrast to some of the critique I've already seen.

First off, I'd like to point out that I've already established how I feel about Sokka and Katara considering Malina as their stepmother dad's new girlfriend, Aang and Katara naming their daughter Kya, as well as Hakoda and Katara's heartfelt conversation over here (I'm forever glad I managed to see this before the rest because I loved it so much and could analyze it to pieces without focusing on the mess that goes down later). Plus, a few other things here and in the description of this mournful drawing.

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Let me start with the way Katara acts towards Malina. Since they met, Katara has felt offended by Malina and the way she (unintentionally) insults her culture. Katara comes from a culture that's always had a rather simple, freer, more gender-equal lifestyle, nothing fancy, strict or patriarchal like in the north. Because of this, she and the southerners as a whole are considered to be lower class, even less competent or intelligent, if you will. Hence the idea that they might not be ready to handle the extracting and shipping of the oil that rightfully belongs to them (as it's found under their land). Offering to build a fancy palace, saying the taste of their food is "off", that their tribe needs lifting up, leaving the impression that they're just stupid snow rats who can be easily manipulated or used - I for one can clearly see why Katara is offended and damn right she should be (I'm most likely gonna protect her a lot in this discussion, so be prepared).

After her conversation with her dad, Katara feels a bit more reassured that Malina truly is trying to help them. It's very important that it was her father who helped her come to this point. Hakoda has known Malina for a longer period of time, so it's logical that Katara eventually believes him when he comforts her that she's not up to anything nefarious. I mean.. it's Hakoda and Katara, father and daughter - she trusts her father, there's no doubt about that. And he certainly helped along by letting her see things from his point of view, plus making the connection with how she feels about Aang was lovely.

So Katara lightens up and sort of understands that Malina is still learning their ways, that maybe she shouldn't be so hostile towards her and instead give her a chance (or much rather, the benefit of a doubt - I'll come back to this soon). But just then, Malina reveals what their initial plans were. Here's something that's worth noting - Katara wouldn't have jumped up on that stage to protect Malina (and Maliq) if there hadn't been a tiny part of her that still believed she was telling the truth and didn't want any harm to the southerners. Yes, Aang did say that they didn't deserve to die and hoped that Katara would go protect them while he dealt with the soldiers, which definitely was the main reason she slid to the rescue. But at that moment, I believe her feelings about Malina were so mixed due to the betrayal that she didn't realize this yet (and I hope she will in the third part).

Finally, I reach the part that has the most parallels to certain scenes, even episodes from the original series. Where have we seen the same events play out? When was the last time Katara used to hate somebody because he was their biggest enemy, then let her guard down when he sympathized with her, which ended up with him turning his back on her, her loved one (almost) getting killed and her having to heal them back to health (not to mention the emotional pain she had to live through)? That's right - with Zuko. When they were trapped in the Crystal Catacombs.

In the end, Katara is acting towards Malina just like she acted towards Zuko, justifiably. Whenever she lets someone she doesn't completely trust too close, the people she loves almost get killed or hurt as a result because that person ends up betraying her. Katara is vicious and overprotective by claiming that Malina doesn't deserve to say goodbye to her dad. Don't tell me I'm the only one who doesn't blame her. I wouldn't want someone like that anywhere near my dad (or loved ones) either, especially after everything that's happened. This is an amazing parallel to the death threat she gave to Zuko after he'd joined their group. She's letting them know that she doesn't trust them and wants them nowhere near her family. This raises the question of how will Malina regain Katara's trust, which is one of the most intriguing aspects I hope to see getting a solution in the third part. Because Katara can hold a grudge.

While I was writing my opinion about Katara and Malina's relationship, I realized that Jet would actually be a rather good parallel besides Zuko, too. But since she didn't dislike him at first and everything else went pretty much in a similar pattern, I chose to leave him out for now. Plus, Zuko and Malina's betrayals sort of go deeper.

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Moving on, I'm gonna speak about another one of my favourite parts - Aang and Katara's reunion. Starting with the impression like Aang's arrival seems to be too well timed. I don't believe this to be the case (because then we could say that things are too well timed throughout the series), even though it does give such an impression. During the events of "Smoke and Shadow", it took them a couple of days to solve the mystery. We should add the hours or days Aang needed to travel from Ba Sing Se to the Fire Nation capital, then to the Southern Water Tribe. It's a long journey, so it's highly likely that Aang would've made a pit stop on some island or in a village along the way. Sokka and Katara had to walk to the train station, take it to the Outer Wall, then reach the shores of the Earth Kingdom (probably on foot), find a boat that'd take them to the Southern Water Tribe (maybe even switch boats if it wasn't heading home directly) - all of which would've taken a few days too, plus the two days they actually managed to spend at home. I find that Aang's arrival at the Southern Water Tribe isn't as random as we'd think, it seems to be quite realistic.

Enough of that, it was just something that someone pointed out and it kind of irked me, so I wanted to present my arguments. Onto the sweetest part where my favourite young lovers reunite and hug each other. Let me just say - it was beautiful! I loved that Aang asked for permission to kiss her first. I've recently learned that it's such a sweet and polite thing to do, especially if you're not sure whether your partner is okay with it (something I've put to the back of my mind when I eventually have a boyfriend/ develop a crush on someone and am not sure whether he's okay with it/ knows about my feelings). And what's most important - when Katara said that maybe not now, Aang respected her choice and didn't kiss her. Also, they were holding hands practically the entire time and that was so adorable! I love the way this heartwarming scene ends, with the loving way Katara looks at her dad - I had the most beautiful father-daughter feels.. I still do (with every moment the two share tbh).

Let's continue with some other small tidbits I found to be rather lovely, starting with Sokka. I remember how I burst out laughing when he began riding and eventually crashed that forklift at Satoru's factory - his enthusiasm about the machine is so funny. Besides that, Sokka claiming Malina is his dad's new girlfriend had me with such a Jinora-like vibe, where she told the Equalists to stay away from her dad's ex-girlfriend. And speaking of Malina, I have to admit that she really is a beautiful woman. Also, did you notice Momo blushing after he finds a plush version of himself in the pile of prizes Toph's carrying and hugs it? So cute!

There's also a mysterious matter, namely what is up with those two little southern waterbender girls? They're from Katara's tribe, right? Pakku said they were hiding deep in the mainland, in a village that wasn't visible from the shores, which is probably why they survived throughout those hundred years of war (the Fire Nation didn't search for waterbenders so far away). I know I've heard that the small village where Katara and Sokka lived at the beginning of the series wasn't the only one in the South Pole.. but this is intriguing. Katara has always been the last southern waterbender, but this would mean that she isn't anymore (plus, her daughter Kya wouldn't be the only southern waterbender besides her many years later), which is unbelievable, yet great news. What I don't seem to understand is the reason why those two don't wanna share their waterbending with anyone else but themselves. Does it have something to do with the war and having to hide their abilities in order to protect their village (like Haru was forbidden to earthbend)? I'd really like to see an explanation for this and I'm hoping this subplot in the third part will end with Katara and Pakku teaching the little girls together while Aang observes them proudly (or joins them to teach, too), just like Katara watched him teach the air acolytes at the end of "The Promise".

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Onto more serious matters from now on, like the way Katara's worried why it'd be a good thing to have so many machines in every part of their lives. To understand this better and be aware of what I'm talking about, I specifically reread "The Rift" (and shed tears since I didn't even remember half of the story, which had one of the most bittersweet as well as beautiful plots) to see how everybody reacted there. I can see why, she reacted the same way - what if there's an accident with the oil rigs inside the factory and the machinery fails? How will that affect their environment, her home? They saw what'd happened to the river near Satoru's factory, Katara even supported Aang that they shouldn't have built the refinery there. To add to this, after there were three major earthquakes, each stronger than the last one, they witnessed what happened - one of those machines broke, a secret mine collapsed, with them getting trapped underneath it, and a lot of people suffered from various injuries. Katara's afraid that something similar might happen, which explains why she's unsure about all of this, because she's seen the negative effects.

Which brings me to an argument that I've seen and really bothers me - Katara is out of character. I totally have to disagree with this (considering everything I talked about before as well). Katara wasn't really excited like Sokka when Satoru gave them a tour around the Earthern Fire Refinery either. She's acting rather similarly to Aang (hence her flashback in the end of the first part) - this is her home that's been rebuilt (her sacred place). Nothing seems familiar to the round igloos and uneven paths between them like it used to be (in her dream) - it's in orderly fashion, angular, straight, more like the buildings in the Northern Water Tribe. This unfamiliarity is what bothers her - she'd like the image of her tribe to reflect what it used to look like, not how their sister tribe looks like. This doesn't feel like home to her, which is hard to accept, and that's the problem. I just don't get it, why does this seem so weird for some people? It's completely natural to feel this way.

One more thing to continue with the idea like Katara isn't quite herself here. She's never thought of nonbenders as not equal - this is true. There are several examples from the series to back this up, which helps make sense. When Sokka was downhearted because he felt like the regular guy in their group, it was Katara who comforted him because she knew very well that he was an irreplaceable asset to their team and capable of so much more as a nonbender. Katara was completely defenceless against Mai and Ty Lee three times during their battles. The point is that she's seen what nonbenders can do using their own special skills.

And now I reach Maliq, the boasting arrogant northerner, who can't see beyond his own innovative plans. He blatantly believes that the citizens of the Southern Water Tribe are a bunch of morons who don't know anything, not to mention how to live in a civilized way. Simple country folk, like Toph once joked.. Being a nonbender, he sort of has this need to prove himself - because he's more educated (having gone to Ba Sing Se University after all), he thinks he's smarter and better than the southerners and has the right to decide what to do with their resources, how to organize their life. But these are his greatest faults, which ultimately turn against him.

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Now I can talk about Gilak and his extremist views. First off, he accuses the northerners for hiding behind their snowy barriers to stay safe while the southerners had to sacrifice blood just to survive. Gilak is playing with our emotions, but it won't work on me (nor Katara). I can easily counter his accusation with a simple question - what were they supposed to do? Take a long risky trip down to the south, to the other side of the world, abandon their homes and leave their tribe even more defenceless with no guarantee of returning safely, avoid dozens of Fire Navy ships and hopefully not get captured, or worse? No. This is where the Northern Water Tribe did the reasonable and right thing - deciding not to send their already small number of warriors into certain death. We could say that the south shares the blame for not sending anyone up north to help them (neither side knew what condition their sister tribe was in!), but I won't. Since the Southern Water Tribe was raided more often, after the last raid, they couldn't just sit by and do nothing anymore. Yes, I believe them leaving to fight in the war was influenced by Hakoda's personal loss as well.

So I've nullified one point Gilak's using to win us over. Secondly, he believes that the northerners living in the south have to be wiped out or driven out of there because they're not a part of their tribe (or culture) and have to pay for their actions. Because the Southern Water Tribe is in danger of losing its identity by being forced to become a colony of the Northern Tribe. Is this.. xenophobia? When I read the description in English and Estonian, it sure sounds like what I'm trying to say in one word. This is where Gilak's crossing the line again - it's immoral to kill someone just because of their ethnicity. These are the reasons why Katara doesn't support him either, remaining a neutral party (which gives him a reason to attempt to kill her, or Aang, since she was the one who stopped him, foiling his plans to take Malina and Maliq, even Hakoda out of the picture).

I'm gonna take a sudden leap to the end of the second part so I could provide a real-life example. The last things Sokka and Katara say to each other before leaving their Gran Gran's igloo actually show that they're both correct. It's a new era where the nations cannot remain separate anymore, a parallel to "The Promise" where the Fire Nation colonies elected governments of mixed nations, so they do need to get with the times. But.. without forgetting who they are, a parallel to Aang deciding to begin teaching the air acolytes about the ways of the air nomads instead of keeping that knowledge to himself. That's what the southerners should do - teach the northerners their culture and ways of life, if they want to become a part of their tribe and settle there.

All of this is very similar to what's happening in the real world, in my country, too, which is why I can relate. Estonia (along with many other countries) is facing a similar problem with the refugees (and other immigrants of foreign cultures). Our President talked about this in her speech on our Independence Day this Friday, urging us to be more tolerant without forgetting our identity (which I believe is the right thing to do). Populists (the EKRE party in our Parliament) are spreading hate and toying with our emotions to get us to support them by claiming that we shouldn't support the refugees (only a select few have terrorist ties or committed terrorist attacks) because they are the threat and we are superior, preserving our culture is the most important thing that matters. Honestly, this attitude drives me mad and makes me sick at the same time. And it's the exact same rhetoric of Donald Trump, Marine Le Pen and other populists here in Europe. They take their views too far, exactly like Gilak has, and become extremists. I just wanna scream some sense into them and their supporters (that refugees and foreigners are simple, normal people like us) and kick their pathetic butts out of politics. I was already so frustrated with this situation that I actually wrote my feelings down through Katara's eyes in a fanfic called "Seeking refuge" last year. I'm ashamed to see how such idiotic politicians keep winning people over, all over the world. But that only fuels my anger and passion to keep fighting against their nonsense and fake news with intelligence, awareness and traditional media that speaks the truth.

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Okay, I wanted to show how I can connect these events with real-life events. Enough ranting, let's focus on some stuff that happens during the fighting. For instance, I'd been trying to figure out the meaning behind Thod's story by reading it several times, especially since I felt like it wasn't put in there randomly and it must've been foreshadowing something. But I didn't fully get it until I'd read the second part. Thod turning out to be a chi blocker made him seem even creepier and more terrifying - Katara's face says it all after she's attacked. I'm glad he underestimated her, which provided her with an opportunity to detain him in that ice by waterbending using only her feet. Proof that Katara is one of the best waterbenders in the world.

Plus, those two kids, who also turned out to be chi blockers in training, are really annoying and I hope they get what's coming to them (thank you for not letting them escape, Aang!). Some of Gilak's troops are actually kind of stupid - let's grab the Avatar's hands, then he can't bend (I think you might've forgotten his legs, dumbbells)! This sounds like I'm hinting that the southerners really do tend to be less intelligent than the northerners - no, this isn't my intention. I'm trying to point out that, other than being nonbenders, his army has weaknesses (or is weak, Sokka beat those two guys with his boomerang so easily). And speaking of revenge, I'd like to praise Toph for getting those three construction "artists" for beating up Katara. Those jerks totally deserved it, that blow to the back must've been pretty strong and dangerous for her. A few pages forward and there's another powerful parallel I'd like to bring up here - Hakoda saying he believes that people can change is exactly what Iroh said, not to mention they're both referring to Zuko.

Like I stated in the very beginning, I've summed up my feelings about Hakoda getting stabbed in the description of my drawing. What I didn't mention though is that every time I read Malina and Katara's screams, I can hear them so loud and clear in my head that it's heartbreaking. Seeing that blood on Hakoda's coat makes my stomach churn, even drawing that crimson in the midst of all those blue tones was a sharp contrast. And Katara's genuine reaction when he finally wakes up.. can I just cry forever together with her?

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My expectations for the third part? I haven't really thought about those, though some ideas did come up within my discussion, so I guess those are the ones. The Southern Water Tribe must remain a colony in some acceptable way, because that's what we see during Korra's time. We know Hakoda will remain chief (most likely, hopefully until he passes away) and Sokka will be his successor at some point. I'd like the third part to offer some clarity to some extent, and see in what conditions do the two tribes come to an agreement.

In conclusion, this discussion became way longer than I'd originally wanted.. I spent hours trying to figure out how to get my point across, that I didn't use the wrong words which might give the wrong idea and that I didn't forget anything important I wanted to mention. Well, I hope you've enjoyed reading my opinion! It's my first thorough review I've written for any of the Avatar comic trilogies, so I hope you liked it!

Btw, Caroline (@thecaroliner), to answer your question of where is Bato? With everything that's going on, I think he would've gotten in the way of the plot, so that might be the main reason why he was left out. Or who knows, maybe we'll see him in the third part?

#personal #shards of Kristal #North and South

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