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#miraculous season 5 finale
muzzable · 10 months
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Leaked screencap from Miraculous Ladybug Season 6
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Why Andre is a horrible father and badly written character - Season 5 Spoilers ahead
You might know Andre Bourgeois as the corrupt mayor of Paris or Chloe’s spineless father who can’t stand up to her. He never bothered me too much in S1-4 but Season 5 - his character felt ruined. This post will explain why Andre is an awful father and badly written character. 
Part 1 - His relationship with Chloe
Despite not being an evil character - he is still a rubbish father. First thing he does is adopt Zoe and seemingly disown Chloe in Collusion judging by the deleted section of the leaked script.
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He knows Audrey is a terrible mother but still lets her take Chloe nonetheless - hoping they’ll have fun. Andre also favors Zoe and wants to keep her by how he willingly adopts her and when he allows Audrey to take Chloe to NYC despite knowing she will abuse her . Hell he even says " I like her best". This disgusts me because Andre is willing to play favorites and only wants to love and take care of Zoe - who in his eyes is the easier daughter to raise.
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This is proven in Revolution when he seemingly takes Chloe away angrily and leaves her with Audrey - judging by the plane scene. This angers me because Andre seemingly abandons his daughter and doesn’t take any responsibility for what happened. Chloe isn’t 100% to blame for how she turned out . Andre should take ownership of how Chloe acted and should’ve tried to discipline her . If he was a Good father he would’ve sent Chloe to Juvie or to live with a strict , non-wealthy relative and financially cut her off.  I’m not saying Chloe is innocent - she had a choice to become mayor and should definitely be punished - but sending her with Audrey will make the situation worse. I'm not against him adopting Zoe but the fact he didn't take any responsibility for Chloe's behaviour and tosses her aside proves that he only cares about Zoe not Chloe. Therefore he is a horrid father because he pretty much abandoned Chloe knowing her mum will mistreat her but doesn’t feel guilty because he replaced her with Zoe - the better daughter. No wonder Chloe is the way she is.
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Part 2 - badly written
Andre - as well as being an awful dad , is also a badly written character. The writers portray him as an amazing father by how he saved Zoe from Audreys wrath by adopting her and how he put his foot down in revolution when taking Chloe away.  However - he is terribly written because the writers want to show him as a good father but write him to be a coward. He is a bad father by how he replaces Chloe with Zoe because she is the better behaved daughter. He adopts Zoe and takes responsibility for her because she is the easier daughter to raise and Andre wants to feel like he is a good person. He never took responsibility for Chloe and seemingly blames Chloe and Audrey for what  happened. The writers present him as a hero and honorable father when in reality - he is a spineless, pathetic man for not raising Chloe properly and abandoning her.
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What makes him even more despicable is that he knew Gabriel and Tomoe used his daughter as a puppet and manipulated her - but he never called them out.
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He let his daughter be presented as a scapegoat and received all the blame when he knew Gabriel was the real villain behind the robots. Well to play devil's advocate , lot's of the shows characters are dumb , but that still isn't an excuse. I'm not suprised he wasn't able to piece two and two together. He never was a Good father to Chloe and was too pathetic to take some of the blame for what she did. His character honestly is worse than Audrey because the writers at least write her decently. She is written to be horrible and is presented as horrible. Andre is the better person while Audrey is the better Character. However Andre is written to be a benevolent person when in reality he is a mouse and a disgusting person. 
If you love Chloe or you hate her - you cannot deny that it isn’t entirely her fault on why she turned out to be such a spoiled brat. Andre is just as to blame as Audrey on why Chloe is a bad person. He never disciplined her , seemingly replaces Chloe with Zoe because she is his favorite, didn’t take responsibility for what Chloe did , leaves her with Audrey ( who he’ll know will abuse Chloe) and lets his daughter be slandered by Paris for the fiasco when he knew Gabriel and Tomoe were behind all of that.  But what makes him the most terrible character is that he is obviously an irresponsible father but the writers present him as a loving one who is innocent and has done nothing wrong.  Chloe is no angel , but she isn’t pure evil . She wasn’t born bratty , someone raised her to be like that . I wished the fandom recognised how atrocious Andre is as a father and I find it disgusting how the writers think he is a good person . But these are just my opinions. However if you like what they did with his character , that is perfectly fine . I’m not saying you are not allowed to like Andre. Please stay respectful.
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monarch-maelstrom · 8 months
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We won…
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itsemsie · 6 months
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You know even if Adrien does find out the truth about his father, what are they going to do with it? He can't exactly confront his father about it, HE'S DEAD. Like the whole of Adrien's arc is confronting his father. Like the only person Adrien can confront on this is Marinette/Ladybug and that's even if they decide to do the reveal which may lead to Chat Blanc happening again. But then again with Astrucs writing of Marinette in which she can never take accountability to her terrible decisions, they will make it seem like Marinette not telling him WAS a good thing and that drien will, thank Marinette for keeping this secret away from him.
Honestly, I don't know how their gonna try and salvage their relationship after that
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vavandeveresfan · 7 months
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Me realizing Adrien killed his father and he never knew it.
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Me realizing the writers choose this as the finale of a 5 year arc.
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urlocaltheythem · 10 months
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///!\\\\ HUGE BIG FATASS SPOILERS FOR THE FINALE, IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN IT YET WHAT ARE YOU DOING??
guys I've been thinking about the finale ALL DAY and I can't make any sense out of it... but then I thought about something, I didn't see anyone talking about it so I wanted to make a post about it to see what y'all think (please be nice lmao, I came here bc people on tweeter and reddit are too mean haha)
Basically like, what if the end of the finale was a fantasy/dream of someone (most likely Adrien) under the power of jubilation?
-the fact that Gabriel is presented as a hero could mean Adrien, despite wanting to be free from his father, still wants to believe he was a good person deep down ?
-Ladybug not telling Adrien his father was hawkmoth (might just be my but): I think it's weird she didn't tell him, maybe he never got a chance to talk with her at all (like irl) but fantasy ladybug was like "ur father helped me beat hawkmoth, he's so cool" idk? :'))
-and like we don't know for sure if that's Amelie or Emilie we see at the end, therefore we don't know who Gabriel saved (Emilie or Natalie), it's all a little fishy and Thomas is being weirdly vague about it + since Adrien doesn't know his father was hawkmoth, he had no reason to even hope for a way to get his mother back, therefore it's his aunt hanging with the rest of the family and Natalie is healthy bc he doesn't know why she's sick therefore it would make sense for him to dream about her being healthy all of a sudden
-also like (this one is really bothering me haha) the new school system that seems to have been thought by a literal toddler??? tell me that's not some 14yo fantasy lmaooo
really like the end of the episode seemed too Utopic and not believable and so rushed??
(sorry if I made any mistakes, not my first language + it's 2am where I am :')) )
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alexfierroaf · 10 months
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You know, the more I think about the finale (which is basically all I’ve been doing since it came out), the more I realize something.
The further and further I got in Miraculous up until this point, the deeper the sense of dread and nihilism I got. Because every time Marinette and/or Adrien made any significant step forward, they were “rewarded” with either a bad end or an undo button. Chat Blanc and Ephemeral are obvious examples, but there have been plenty of others too -- all the times Marinette ~almost~ got to confess to Adrien, their identity reveal in Oblivio, the few moments of happiness Adrien had with his father, etc. Even Kwami’s Choice (one of the very few moments of actual happy plot progression that we get) bends to this rule, because they were so relieved to be free of the Miraculous, but in the end, that freedom was doomed not to last.
It made me more and more anxious the more I watched. I got the feeling that no matter what happened, these kids might never get their happy ending. Even when the series ends (I’m assuming on a positive note, but after this finale nothing can be taken for granted) Marinette will eventually have to pass on her Guardianship, which means she’ll forget everything -- including not only Adrien, also Alya and all the rest of her loved ones that she met after learning about the Miraculous. Her memories (to my understanding) will revert back to what they were at the point just before becoming involved with the Miraculous. Which means her journey of personal growth and working through her trauma will also be reset. Either that or her entire memory is wiped. Neither option is happy. And then of course there’s Adrien, who will have to grieve their past relationship, supposing he’s still alive when she gives up the Miracle Box.
Realizing this made me think: How will they get out of this? How will they ever be okay? Are they just doomed to fail and suffer tragedy on repeat for the rest of their lives?
Yin and Yang. Creation and Destruction. Joy and Grief. They are all natural cycles -- forces that cannot be avoided. And none can exist without the other. 
In season five, we got one of the greatest joys (and steps forward) that we’ve received in the entire show -- Adrienette finally becoming canon. And staying canon, despite steep odds. We also got the single greatest loss in the series to date, and that’s Gabriel succeeding in making his wish. Going out on his own terms, with the knowledge that he got what he wanted. God, it makes me sick.
At first I was shocked. Upset. Disappointed, a little bit. Because of course we all expected something different. Something involving them beating the odds, no matter what.
But this ending....it’s the natural conclusion to the Bad Vibes (TM) I’d been getting from this series for a while now. That sense of hopelessness, of inevitability....All those times I thought to myself, “How are they ever going to break this cycle? What will they be able to do differently that will allow them to win?” The answer was already in front of me. And that answer was: They can’t. Sometimes tragedy is unavoidable. Sometimes, despite all your best efforts (and an absolutely badass performance by Bug Noire) you still lose.
And hasn’t that been the whole point of the series thus far, when you think about it? Making mistakes and knowing how to fix them. The entire setup of akumatized victims is a picture of this. We all have negative emotions, and we all make mistakes. But in the end, they can be fixed, and life moves on. Maribug makes all kinds of mistakes too. Little everyday ones that get episodic focus as well as life changing events like in Risk. She obsesses over her mistakes -- tries so hard to be perfect -- but no matter what she will continue to mess up, and do her best to make it better. 
She’s made a massive mistake this time by choosing to extend an olive branch to Gabriel. The world is forever altered, and it’s unclear if anything can be done to fix it. But just like always, she will do everything in her power to make things right. It’s the natural evolution of a story with this theme, to, after rectifying so many errors, finally come to one which can never be undone. It’s even more dire than loosing the Miraculous last season, since at least those could be reclaimed. But life goes on, regardless of what happens in the past. All Marinette can do is learn from her experiences and do better next time. 
Mistakes are inevitable. Pain and grief are inevitable. But so is growth. So is joy. So is life. 
I predict that the end of Miraculous Ladybug will come when Marinette is finally comfortable with her ability to mess up and recover from it. When she accepts that sometimes bridges need to be burned, and that failure is a part of life. When she’s comfortable enough with herself to admit that, she’ll be ready to take on the new Butterfly holder and, with Adrien by her side this time, finally make a decisive victory. 
Who knows what will happen after the final credits run. How the cycles of Creation and Destruction rear their heads in their lives. But by the time that moment comes, they’ll be prepared to square up and face it head on.
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ayana-banafrit · 10 months
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The defendant may speak now!
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Your honour I would like to present some evidence to the court on the words of the accused.
The many times he has abused his son, manipulated him and used his very poor mental stability in his gain.
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Chat Blanc, where he showed his son his dead mother in the basement, threw him in the air and beat him with a stuck until he got knocked into the Eiffel Tower and fell to the ground.
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After that he used his very poor emotional and mental state to akumatize him. He then proceeded to turn his son agains his best friend/love of his life into betraying her and getting him her earrings. The poor boy didn’t know what to do after everything he experienced in the span of 2 minutes and tried to destroy himself which resulted in a world ending catastrophe.
Exaple 2.
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Once again after discovering his son’s secret identity the only thing this man had in mind was how to use this to his gain. He took him to their basement to see his dead mother. After the shock that Adrien had experienced, in the span of a few seconds his father ONCE AGAIN used his extremely poor emotional and mental state to akumatize him. He then proceeded to use him to take the earrings from his girlfriend to bring his dead wife back.
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treatop · 10 months
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SEASON 5 MIRACULOUS FINALE SPOILERS!!!!
ok so angsty episode idea. so we know marinette knows that gabriel agreste was monarch right, but adrien doesnt. what if marinette (as ladybug) accidentally reveals that information in some sort of rant to chat noir. and then adrien gets akumatised??
idk just brainstorming man
that finale has left me with mixed feelings
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MIRACULOUS season 5 (finale not on Disney+ or Netflix) spoilers
I just finished season 5.
And there is no fucking way some of y'all are actually trying to say Gabriel wasn't a bad guy?
He is an ADULT.
He abused his CHILD.
i don't care if he sacrificed himself. That's the only good thing he ever did.
HE'S A BAD PERSON.
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fixations-101 · 10 months
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I was losing my mind the entire two part-er, but Jess, Aeon, and Fei showing up made me foam at the mouth
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muzzable · 9 months
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Also it's just so fascinating to me that even though both the show and the movie had a big climactic fight that leads to Hawkmoth/Monarch not being a threat...in neither one would I say he was actually defeated. In the show Ladybug had to face him alone, and he took both the Miraculous. In the movie, Chat went on ahead to fight him by himself and was defeated, leaving Ladybug to face him alone, and here too he took her Miraculous. Both times he was fought by separated heroes and it wasn't enough. The power of love always so strong–stronger together–because Ladybug was right in the show. They only stood a chance in a fight if they faced him together. Power of love always so strong because what brings Gabriel down is truly and finally reminding him of his love for his family, who they really are and would really want and need. Not the idealized version he's infatuated with chasing relentlessly. He wasn't defeated so much as he accepted that he should stop being a villain for one reason or another.
I'm not sure where I'm going with this but it's just not the way I would have expected them to do things, but I feel like it's so much more interesting to think about than what I'd think they'd do. Maybe those kinds of story beats aren't the most satisfying but they stick in my brain so much longer because of it and I kinda love it.
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My thoughts on Felix - anti hero gone wrong
Introduction - SEASON 5 SPOILERS AHEAD
Felix Fathom - the show's anti hero. Easily one of the smartest characters of the show and has gained quite a large fanbase. However , his Character took a drastic turn in Season 5 , with the transition from anti-hero to a hero. He joins the team in the season 5 finale - which has raised a few eyebrows. This post will explain my thoughts on Felix and why I dislike how his character has been written this season . Don’t get me wrong , I don’t hate Felix but it annoys me how he does awful things and doesn’t face any consequences. This is not a hate post on Felix but simply me sharing my opinion on him.
His Character explained up until Emotion
Felix seemingly had a rough childhood. Due to Amelie being infertile , Colt created Felix from the peacock miraculous , which caused him to be a senti.
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Due to Colt using the broken miraculous , he got sick and seemingly blamed , abused and controlled Felix.
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When Felix was 13 , due to frustration , Colt punched the wall , breaking the ring which is where Felix’s amok is. This nearly killed Felix and made him realize his life was tied to his father’s ring. Soon his father died and he took his ring , securing his freedom. However he was forever paranoid of the idea of disappearing and when he found out about the peacock miraculous, he made it his goal to steal it from his uncle to ensure his survival. We see him first in the episode Felix , where he steals Gabriel's ring. We see him come back in Gabriel Agreste , finding out his uncle is a Shadow Moth , confirming his suspicions that he had the peacock miraculous.
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The trauma from his interaction with Gabriel , thinking he was about to be snapped out of existence, triggers him to complete his mission. In the Season 4 finale , he steals most of the miraculous and trades all of them and Gabriel's ring for the peacock miraculous.
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The rings from my understanding were a safety net in case anything went wrong. He knew Gabriel would never trade the peacock miraculous for his wife's ring because of how powerful the miraculous was so he stole most of the miraculouses because he knew about Gabriels plan. He laid low for a few months then in the episode Emotion , he committed mass genocide by snapping every human to the red moon and leaving only the senti-trio and Marinette on Earth. 
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His motive - freeing his cousin and Kagami ( who he recently found out was a senti) from their parents. He however realized he lost control and brought everyone back. Felix is an anti-hero in the sense that he had good intentions but goes about it in the wrong way. He had a good reason to trade the jewelry for the peacock in order to be free , to never be under the mercy of the peacock miraculous holder , who can snap him out of existence anytime. However he achieved his goal in an unethical way , by betraying ladybug and stealing the miraculous. This also applies in Emotion , he felt empathy for Kagami and felt bad about Adrien because he was in the same situation as them which is not being able to be in control of themselves. He wanted to help them experience the same freedom he has so he snapped Gabriel and Tomoe to the red moon.  However he went way too far by snapping away literally everyone committing genocide. He had a sympathetic motive - helping Adrien and Kagami but how he conducted his methods in a questionable way portrays him as a morally gray character.
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This is what makes his Character compelling . You sympathize with his character and understand why he does the things he does but at the same time disagree with his methods and resent him for helping the main villain. 
Why Feligami doesn’t work
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Pretension is the episode where Felix’s character went wrong for me. This is mainly because of Feligami (sorry Feligami stans😔😔). He seemingly falls in love with Kagami after one episode and from my understanding - stalks and kidnaps her from her mom . Now Tomoe is awful but there really was no need to kidnap her - she was only shouting at her - not beating her up. He kidnapped Kagami not because she was in any danger but wanted to confess his love towards her and make her fall in love with him . Kagami was not having any of it however when he seemingly saves her and tells her about his tragic backstory , she instantly gains feelings.
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The problem with this is that Kagami barely knows Felix . From her POV , he could easily be lying in order to gain sympathy from her. They got together during one episode which caused the ship to feel rushed. Another reason why this ship doesn't work is how they fell in love. Sure Kagami saw Felix differently after Felix saved her from Tomoe and gave her the ring but you don’t fall in love after three interactions.
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Kagami chooses to be with Felix because he looks exactly like Adrien which causes the ship to be unhealthy because she still has unresolved feelings for her ex. She doesn’t love Felix for who he is , she loves him because he looks like Adrien. If she started dating Felix after knowing him for a few weeks/months then it would’ve made more sense that she fell in love with Felix because of his personality , not his appearance.
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Felix only like Kagami because she was a senti , he barely cared for up until Emotion. He only spent a couple of hours with her before snapping everyone away and then decided he loved her.  If Kagami wasn’t a senti , he wouldn’t have taken interest in her and snapped her away without caring. The last reason why I dislike Feligami is that it feels forced . The sole reason why the writers gave Felix a love interest is to make him look more redeemable. Kagami is one of the show's more loved characters ( from season 4 at least) and making her and Felix get together was for the purpose of making Felix more likable. To conclude , Feligami is a cute idea but the execution of their storyline was done badly. They fall in love despite barely knowing each other and Kagami forgives Felix way too easily after knowing his story. If you like Feligami though , that's perfectly fine. 
Representation mess
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This episode made me lose most of my respect for Felix as a character (I can hear the Felix stans typing 😂😂). The first reason why this episode wasn’t well written is how Felix approached Ladybug. When performing his cringy play (which turned out to be pointless) he asked for Ladybug help without uttering a single apology for everything you’ve done to her. He SA’ed Ladybug and gave her trauma by stealing the miraculous but still had the audacity to request assistance without saying sorry. Isn’t he ashamed of himself or feel any guilt ?
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He also sought Ladybug's aid not because he wanted to free Adrien from Gabriel , not because he felt bad about what he did in Strike Back and wanted to seek forgiveness by teaming up with Ladybug to help her defeat Monarch but because he wanted to love his girlfriend freely. He only helped Marinette , gave her the information she needed because it benefited him . This isn’t a bad storyline for an anti-hero. An anti-hero only works for himself but the reason why this storyline failed is because the narrative pushed Felix to be some sort of hero. His moments with Kagami make him look like a good guy and the backstory made Felix sympathetic.
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The moment  where Felix explains why he stole the miraculous felt more of a justification portraying Felix as someone who is innocent and hasn’t done anything wrong. He is sympathetic and tragic but isn't exactly a good person either so the part where he justifies what he did and the narrative portraying him as a hero felt like bad writing.
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Another thing that bothers me is the inconsistency of Felix creating a sentimonster which is a projector. He said in Pretension he refused to create another senti just for him to abuse them , control them and snap them out of existence when he’s done with them.
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However , after Mari wakes up , she sees a feather which we could assume means Felix has snapped it out of existence when he was done with it. The annoying thing is that this could’ve been avoided if Felix wasn’t a coward and went up to Ladybug , APOLOGIZE for what he did , says he wants to help her defeat Monarch and tell him everything he knows. Man up Felix ! The least he could’ve done was give the senti its freedom instead of killing it. However in defense of Felix , he did tell Ladybug about Adrien being a senti which redeemed him somewhat , but the info on Monarch's identity was pointless and the information Felix revealed was barely used in the finale until the Adrienette kiss scene.  Overall this Episode made me lose most of my respect for Felix's character because the writers try so hard to portray Felix as a hero or a good guy when clearly he still is the same as before. He still has villain like tendencies that are never addressed and this episode really swept all of his bad deeds under the rug. 
Why his redemption doesn’t make sense
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During the epilogue of the finale - he seemingly is chilling at the Agreste mansion and spends time with Kagami - eyeing her cutely. However the most insulting thing about the finale is when Felix seemingly joins the team confirming a redemption arc (pls don't kill me Felix stans🙏🙏). He is pretty much forgiven for his crimes and faces no real consequences. Well to be fair , he did face a small consequence for mass genocide , he lost control of his power and realized he is no better than Monarch. This is shown when  he cries after snapping the red moon out of existence.
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However that was the only consequence he faced out of many crimes he committed and he never redeemed himself to Ladybug for killing everyone. Instead he got rewarded with a girlfriend and ownership of his Miraculous despite his identity being known. The reason why his redemption makes no sense is that he never apologized to Ladybug or proved himself that he is a good person. Sure he had good motives and felt remorse a few times but he never said sorry to Ladybug or felt any guilt about helping Gabriel. His abuse under Colt explains his actions but does not excuse them so him seemingly being forgiven by everyone  without proving himself just felt wrong. The season 5 finale was a missed opportunity to redeem Felix the right way with him saving Adrien and Kagami from their prisons or him fighting alongside Ladybug against Monarch. Instead he was absent and only showed up in the epilogue. Another problem is that his redemption was rushed , only a few weeks ago he committed mass genocide but now he’s besties with Ladybug and already part of the team , the same team he ruined by stealing all the miraculouses. Did she also forget he forced himself on her ? Felix can do whatever he wants without ever being held accountable or face any punishment. I’m not against a Felix redemption arc if it’s written correctly. His character would’ve been better if he continued to be an anti-hero and is redeemed in later seasons.   Therefore , his redemption felt ruined because he basically got away with most of his crimes and was forgiven easily without ever apologizing or feeling much regret. He basically faced no consequences for SA, assisted terrorism , mass genocide , stalking , kidnapping and instead got rewarded .
Final thoughts
To conclude ,  Felix started off as a great character with layers and complexity but unfortunately got ruined as the story progressed. I don’t hate Felix , his character is fascinating because of his character status as morally gray but like most characters in this show , was a victim of bad writing. His redemption felt disappointing and his relationship with Kagami felt unnatural. I understand his motives (he was doing it for his own survival) but they way he conducted his methods was immoral. He got away with most of his crimes and faced no punishment. Hot take but Felix is one of those characters who’s better off as an anti-hero. He still has so much villain potential which shouldn't go to waste. However I will end this post on a positive note and say not all hope is lost and Felix’s character can be saved in season 6. Going forward , I hope Ladybug and Cat Noir (especially Cat Noir)  still are a bit suspicious of Argos and don’t fully trust him despite letting him into the team.  Another Unpopular Opinion is that I want Felix to turn on the hero team in future seasons and work with the villains. It’s logical because he never was held accountable or faced real consequences so what is stopping him from betraying the team again ? His character has so much potential and he is unique solely because he is an anti-hero. I hope in Season 6 , his character improves. However these are just my opinions , if you love Felix and agree with how the writers are handling his character , that is perfectly fine .  Please stay respectful 😊😊😊 .
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buggachat · 10 months
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imagine if plagg just revealed his true form on a whim whenever he felt like it
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schsas · 9 months
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based on this post by @settledownsummer :3333
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vavandeveresfan · 10 months
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About Ladybug’s Season 5 finale . . .
I’m popping in to respond to several people asking me if I’ve seen Season 5′s finale.  And asking whether it will effect how I write The Cocoon Splits.
No, I haven’t.  And no, it won’t.
I don’t care what they did to my man Gabriel, or Marinette, or Emilie, or any of the others.  I don’t care if Gabriel made the Wish, what it was, and what happened.  I wrote my fic’s plot outline months ago.  I’m not changing it.
I will finish my fic.  But slowly (please see my Pinned post.)
For those who want to try my version (so far):
The Cocoon Splits on AO3.
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